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Out of Work and Pissed Off

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This chart shows that the number of working males has dropped back to 1996 levels when there were 30 million less citizens in the U.S. A lot of angry unemployed men in an interregnum is a recipe for social unrest and fascism. Any student of the rise of Hitler to power in 1933 understands that the depression unleashed a huge number of unemployed young and middle-aged German men onto the streets only to be organized by the Nazis. Here's Eric Hobsbawm from The Age of Extremes

"Fascism was triumphantly anti-liberal. It also provided the proof that man can, without difficulty, combine crack-brained beliefs about the world with a confident mastery of contemporary high technology.... Nevertheless, the combination of conservative values, the techniques of mass democracy, and an innovative ideology of irrationalist savagery, essentially centered in nationalism, must be explained"

At some point the Tea Party Movement could easily morph into a political machine that could combine "crack-brained beliefs" with "mastery of high technology". The "crack-brained" ideas are already out there: illegal immigrants are the root of our unemployment problem; the President is a socialist traitor born in Africa;women should return to their traditional roles of unpaid "homemakers"; the government is convening death panels to decide who gets to live. The mastery of high technology is also in place: Fox is building Sarah Palin a TV and Internet studio on her Alaska Compound; Glenn Beck, Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity already rule over talk radio, cable news and online right wing sites.

William Astore, a retired Air Force Lieutenant Colonel paints a picture of the election of 2016 when all the anger comes together.

Tapping the frustration of protesters -- including a renascent and mainstreamed "tea bag" movement -- the former captains and sergeants, the ex-CIA operatives and out-of-work private mercenaries of the War on Terror take action. Conflict and confrontation they seek; laws and orders they increasingly ignore. As riot police are deployed in the streets, they face a grim choice: where to point their guns? Not at veterans, they decide, not at America's erstwhile heroes.

A dwindling middle-class, still waving the flag and determined to keep its sliver-sized portion of the American dream, throws its support to the agitators. Wages shrinking, savings exhausted, bills rising, the sober middle can no longer hold. It vents its fear and rage by calling for a decisive leader and the overthrow of a can't-do Congress.


Unless we start reimagining America After Empire--a country where the serious work of rebuilding a broken infrastructure can be funded from the reductions in a cold war based military budget--the potential of a more violent right wing movement will exist. Bob Herbert suggests the alternative path.
Bruce Katz, the director of Brookings' Metropolitan Policy Program, discussed some of the steps that need to be taken to remake an economy that has been thrown completely out of whack by frantic, debt-driven consumption, speculative bubbles, exotic financial instruments, and so on.

A new, saner, more sustainable economy will have to be more export-oriented, powered by cleaner fuels, bolstered by innovation that comes from a renewed focus on research and development, and committed to delivering a better-educated, more highly skilled work force.

Mr. Katz believes this is doable, but by no means easy. The nation's infrastructure, he said, will have to "shift from 20th-century models of transport and energy transmission to rapid bus, ubiquitous broadband, congestion pricing, smart grid, high-speed rail and intelligent transport."

New ways of financing such transformative changes will have to be developed, linking public and private capital, preferably through the creation of a national infrastructure bank, among other things. The nation's political leaders and the public at large will have to grasp the difference between wasteful spending and crucial investments in the future.


Don't kid yourself into thinking that the alternative to taking up this challenge is political drift and "more of the same". Even the right wing political establishment realizes it cannot control the movement unleashed by Palin, Beck and Co, symbolized by Palin's endorsement of Rand Paul, Ron Paul's son
"I'm disappointed by her endorsement of Paul," said William Kristol, the editor of The Weekly Standard and one of the conservatives credited with "discovering" Ms. Palin in 2007. "But they always disappoint you."


125 Comments

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So where is FDR?

You wouldn't have to worry about the tea baggers if Democrats had an alternative vision of the future!

Take healthcare - a bunch of beancounting wonks trying to sell it as cost control. Not exactly a theme designed to reach those emotional hot buttons.

I mean we don't even have a party that could give a 4 Freedoms speech because they'd be terrified that freedom of speech or freedom from fear or freedom from want would be framed as too far left.

So the other thing we've got in common with Germany in the '30s is no coherent opposition.

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1996, eh? The stats are a year late. In 1995 Timothy McVeigh bombed the Oklahoma City Federal Building. That was after 5 years of the beginning of globalization and outsourcing and two years after the Waco Siege and well after the spawn of the militia movement which is mostly forgotten now but was a giant reaction to the fact that well-intentioned hard working people got totally shafted by our macroeconomic policies. The other phenomenon that emerged during these times was "going postal." It was the naturally psychotic reaction to the machination and standardization of white collar work.

Forget comparisons to Weimar Germany. Times have fortunately changed so that the masses in the US are unlikely to buy into racial generalizations. But people will still react badly to being left out of the economy or to being forced into robotic professions when they are, at root, creative beings.

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He could be onto something, I'm afraid. Americans have been propagandized into believing that we are "exceptional", "we're number 1!", "USA! USA!" and all that. We're not going to accept being a second class power very easily. At least the Brits could pass the baton to their bastard English speaking child. We're going to have to face taking second place to the Chinese. Not going to be pretty. Scapegoats will be needed.

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I agree bluebell. In fact, I'm an example. I'm not ready to be a second class power by any means. I would like America to change and be another kind of power but I am absolutely not ready to cede global hegemony to the tyrants of China.

But we're not going to become fascists over it! I actually think it'd be healthy for us to view China as a cultural and aesthetic (not not military) rival.

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It would be healthier and more realistic than believing our greatest threat is Afghanistan!

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coming to a neighborhood near you:
MASS DEPORTATION

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Coming to a neighborhood near you, BLAME THE CHRISTIANS?
Its been done before Rome, Germany, Russia, China, United States
It's called persecution.

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Unless the Teapartiers decide we need to invade Canada for 'liebensraum' or the government loses its ability to pay salaries of police or the military, I see the Long Recession as causing more poverty, more uninsured, more homeless, more crime, increased drug abuse, continued declines in infrastructure and cuts in government services to everyone but the military, and of course spiking big bucks for rabble rousing windbags like Rush and Sarah, but not the Fourth Reich. The Super Bowl will still be there to placate the masses, employed or not.

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Rand Paul? You serious?

LOL

What sort of creature would name a son after a writer of Bodice-Ripper Romances?

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Probably named for Ayn.

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Ayn, the boddice-ripper novelist. Yez.

How...unmanly

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I don't know if it is already too late to stop your troubling vision of this future America from coming into being Jon.

The table has been set, by Bush and the dems who allowed him to take unprecedented powers for the executive, and all a future president would need to do is claim some threat to our country, call it a 'war', then claim more war powers, suspend our democratic institutions and begin with the purges. That leader will be a fundamental Christian claiming he/she must seize power, for the sake of our country and our eternal souls, because we've made God angry...then the "fun" will begin.

We had a chance to make concrete and substantive changes for the better and the opportunity is being pissed away by centrists, who by the way are being inaccurately but successfully passed off as left wing liberals/progressives by this nascent movement, by refusing to make the hard choices and embracing the status quo. I don't know if I'll stick around long enough to be dumped into The Shining City on the Hill Bible Reeducation Camp to be taught to properly hate whomever resists the will of God though...first and foremost "godless atheistic nazi commie libruls". I'll probably be in Canada waiting to defend it against these new Crusaders for God who will need to invade any country which will disagree with their twisted views.

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I don't believe it will be like Handmaidens Tale although that was he first thing I thought of when Bush got the nod from the SCoTUS.

So glad to read you.

=D

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Thanks, but to be honest I had never heard of it Bwak...I know, I know, I live such a sheltered life at times, lol. But I just read a quick synopsis of the plot and Atwood seems to be of the same thinking as me...or I as her. And it is very plausible seeing how it seems no matter how bad the things they propose people are hesitant about criticizing people who say they motivated by a deep belief in their Christian faith combined with what has already happened in the breaking down of the idea of "separate but equal" branches of government. "I must do this to protect you, God's 'real' chosen people, and God's chosen country. God bless you and God bless the United States of America."

And it is eerily reminiscent of the rise of the Nazis in Germany...God and country and our traditional 'Christian values' need to be defended.

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Me, too, Libertine. One of the main things I wrote about for two years was Christianist takeover of government.
In interviews with Atwood, she would always be asked, 'You don't mean this could happen HERE? It's not possible!'
Atwood would always answer, with that devilish gleam in her eye, her smile wry, 'Wanna bet?'

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Anything is possible. Do I think it will happen? Probably not Wendy, but Atwood is right too, it definitely could.

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Depends which day you would ask me! ;-}

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You got people worried about the Christianist views taking over, yet these same prejudicial people, never realize that the mess was created by Non - Christians.

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Really? Would you like to expand a bit on that?

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I put this post in the wrong place,
It should have been in reply to Wendy’s comment

“Me, too, Libertine. One of the main things I wrote about for two years was Christianist takeover of government.

Sounds like ol’ time PREJUDICE to me

Put you own bigotry or prejudice on the line
“One of the main things I wrote about for two years was ------------------ takeover of government”.
Warn others of the insidiousness of this group.
Blacks, Asians, Gays you name it, whatever group anybody of wicked thoughts of prejudice might consider a threat, even those dreaded christianists should be feared and Wendy for two years has been warning the Nation.
Sound the alarm Wendy

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The probability is small, the cost if it were to come to pass is large. The concept of "expected value" applies here.

I hope this nation comes to its senses and provides ways for ordinary people to trust that their work is valued and valuable enough that work is a better investment than fight.

If enough people decide that there's not much to lose, then instead of producing, there will be fighting for whatever remains.

I would alter Margaret's rejoinder slightly: "You willing to bet your life on it?"

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You might like this blog by Cafe's sleepinjeezus on the subject; I'm sure he won't mind if I share it:

http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/talk/blogs/jpieterick/2009/01/test3.php

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Let us not forget that the Nazi Swastika was a variation on the christian cross and that a large part of the Nazi movement was based on an extremist Christian view.

Religion and ruthless totalitarian states have historically gone hand in hand. One the worst authoritarian being The Holy Roman Empire itself.

Just look at some of the worst dictators and you will see the church right there next him.

C

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And it seems that Heinlein had the same kinda vision thing too. Ironically it is about what happens after a 'backwoods preacher' gets elected president in 2012.

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There has always been something disquieting about how faith can be twisted 180 degrees to control people.

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Yep...and don't expect the military to stop the religious coup seeing how evangelicalized the military has become. There will be some resistance from within the military at first but there will be a 21st century version of Night of the Long Knives to cull the "undesirable sinners" out.

I hope I am wrong but there are too many people who view, rightly or wrongly, the problems in America as problems they had no hand in creating, who are looking for a scapegoat and are open to a charismatic leader who will address "the real reasons" for our decline. And with as many fundamentalist Christians in our government, courtesy of the Republican Party, I can easily see it coming to pass. It'll start slow and be characterized as "making America that Shining City on the Hill" again, but once there is push back from people who want a secular government (re: the "godless atheistic nazi commie libruls" seeking to destroy our country and way of life) it'll move into high gear.

Maybe I am wrong. I could just be paranoid. But I look around our political landscape, with a strengthened executive branch and the anger about the current state of the union, the growing fundamentalist religious movement in American society and see fertile grounds for a right wing populist religious demogogue to spring forth from who says he/she will save us from what we've become.

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Actually, for a really chilling read, check out "It Can't Happen Here", by Sinclair Lewis (in 1935!). It's become public domain in some countries - here's a link to the complete text on Project Gutenberg:

http://gutenberg.net.au/ebooks03/0301001h.html

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Thanks, guys.

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Thanks for the link Matt. I have made it to the end of chapter 4. But, of course, it can't happen here, right?

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It seems pretty plain that the kinds of steps you outline in your "America 3.0" talk, and that Herbert describes in his column, are the only way we can get to a decent future.

It is even more plain that nobody in a position of real political power has any intention of doing anything like that.

Place your bets accordingly.

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It's worth noting that the very persons who will have been duped into following those who would undermine this country have so completely misidentified the source of their troubles. Having said that, in a time long past, I exercised that same poor judgement.

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Fantasies of the Left!

We need a new Godwin's Law variant, to wit:

Anyone who argues assassination-justifying, putsch-excusing, street-fighting pre-Nazi Germany has similarities with 21st century America is too unserious to be taken seriously and loses the argument, immediately.

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Hah!! A variant? I likey variants. OK, I am happy to 'lose' this argument. Yep, it's just a paranoid, tinfoil hat, fantasy nightmare of mine that will never come to pass, yep. I just ask this. Did Bush greatly expand the power of the executive to the point that he/she in the future can ignore the constitution and the rule of law?


Sincerely,
Unserious

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Actually, I was directing the comment to Taplin, but to answer your Bush question --

The Constitution does little if anything to limit a President's powers to defend the nation; therefore, while Bush may have taken advantage of that absence, he wasn't ignoring the Constitution, because it's not possible to ignore what isn't there.

Congress can circumscribe and limit Presidential powers, but traditionally (or merely regularly) it chooses not to do so. In fact Congress hides behind the separation of powers doctrine and joyfully and willingly abdicates its responsibilities in favor of giving the President a completely free hand when it comes to deciding if the nation needs defending and how he should go about it.

Pity.

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I suppose it could be argued that the Bill of Rights restricts a President's powers --

No person shall be . . . deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law . . . .

But then, what's "due process of law" after the President has declared -- Congress being silent -- we're at war?

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Well it seemed to me that more than just Taplin made a "Nazi" analogy here...and even some of us, most notably me, made some predictions about the future that could be labeled 'fantasy' if one was so inclined. But if it was only directed at Taplin I am now disinclined to think otherwise.

But anywhoo...I am getting a kick out of the ever changing definition of war. As far as Congress abdicating their duties, George Washington never wanted the president to be like a monarch, but we ended up with one and get to have a new king every 4 to 8 years...at least a king in terms of their power.

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Is there the "small matter" of the power to declare war-and that is what Bush called-resting with Congress?

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Not to be picky Ellen but the guy who is ignoring the possibility of infaltion is, you might say, ignoring something that isn't there.

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Nixon was an authoritarian president. So was Reagan. Indeed, it was during the Reagan years that conservatives made a complete change in their thinking about the American presidency. This change -- not coincidentally, I believe -- occurred as authoritarian conservatives began to dominate the GOP.

The authoritarian conservative philosophy was fully articulated by Terry Eastland, a former Reagan Justice Department Director of Public Affairs, in his 1992 book Energy in the Executive: The Case for the Strong Presidency. This is a book that was studied closely by then-Halliburton Chairman Dick Cheney, and then-Texas Governor George W. Bush and his staff, long before they arrived in Washington in 2001.

From John Dean's essay on the subject.

C

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See, the problem is, that the Shining City of the Hill Puritans, the ones also responsible for the Salem Witch Trials, are still waging the battle for the 'soul' of this country. They reject the freedoms and plurality espoused by our 3 great Thomases (Hooker, Paine and Jefferson), still think that the country is a Christian one needing to be run by biblical canons, not the abomination known as the Laws of Man, and have been waging a cultural war ever since...just waiting for their opportunity. And still being a self described nation of 'good Christians', well...onward Christian soldiers. Who wants to be 'on the wrong side of God"? That's what worries me...

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The "city on a hill" baloney never prevailed anywhere outside orations. For practical purposes, we all came from Jamestown and the Puritan New England might as well have happened on the moon.

(( If that version is too extreme for you, try Mr. Henry Adam's in the Education [1] : the game was over on the day President Grant announced his first cabinet, ?? March 1869, and the final score Jamestown 114, Mayflower 3. Or thereabouts. ))


Happy days.

___
[1] Page 262, paragraph beginning "With this thought in his mind,"

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Now stick you tongue firmly into your cheek, don't sip any liquid, and look at what the Air Force Academy (the most avidly forced-Christian of the military schools) has done for Wiccans and Druids! You will be sooo relieved!

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/2010/02/02/2010-02-02_pagans_wiccans_druids_get_worship_area_at_air_force_academy.html

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Do we always have to bring up Nazi Germany? It's the one cliche that both the right and the left always bring up as their boogieman.

Nazi Germany was formed from an unique set of unfortunate circumstances. We're no where near the Depression (economy and mental) that set Germany up for its catastrophe. We didn't lose a world war, the entire world isn't mandated by treaty to use us for its doormat, and there's not a charismatic racist grabbing the reigns (Sorry, Palin just doesn't have it.)

If we can just see our problems for what they are and not bring up the specter of Nazi-ism, then maybe we can salvage the situation and make America actually better. History never repeats itself exactly--there's just too many variables.

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"We're no where near the Depression"
Your kidding right?

History never repeats itself exactly"
I suspect history follows similar patterns though.

Similarites: Bush with 911; the Reichstag Fire

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Don't you think that equating the Reichstag fire to 9/11 are a bit off? That fire's repercussions were Hitler as dictator, 9/11's was 2 needless wars--but the US government didn't change systems and march towards the border.

My point is that everyone tries to compare one situation or another to Nazi Germany, and it's a good narrative and evokes a little bit of fear (or used too, before it was overused), but it's tired and really not applicable. (Maybe if Cheney hadn't been so mistrusted by everyone I'd be comparing instead of contrasting, heh)

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Do we always have to bring up Nazi Germany?

Yes, we do. We have to bring up Nazi Germany because it demonstrates how much smarter we are than the people from the past.

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Do you prefer Argentina? Maybe China?

I don't know why we need to go to the Nazis either. We've already done the genocide thing with Native Americans and the slavery thing with African Americans. No reason we need to copy Nazis. When push comes to shove, we'd be able to figure out our own All American version.

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We have a president who seems to be motivated by a desire to be known as a middle of the road president, a sensible and moderate guy. A reasonable fellow who will meet his opponents half way.

Does Obama actually think they're going to wake-up and eagerly meet him in that golden middle? If Obama doesn't change tack and fast our dear country will, unalterably, be "circling the drain".

We're looking at a Republican admin 2012, one less enlightened than Dubya's; a free-for-all among the big Corps for cash and influence. The only potential opposition possible would come from a confused nativist-populist movement. Lacking enough depth to understand what's going on, blame and hatered would poison any such reform efforts. (We're close now, are we not, Ellen?)

I believe Obama is at a juncture where he could stop this dismal drift. But, alas; the poor man shows no sign of being willing to assert himself on behalf of policies and agendas that could actually steer us away from these dark outcomes.

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Republicans -- Not Obama -- More Often on Wrong Side of Public Opinion
by Nate Silver @ 7:23 AM
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One of the more commonplace assertions among pundits on the center-right -- made rather carelessly by Victor Davis Hanson and more thoughtfully by Jay Cost, is that agenda put forward by Obama and the Democrats is overwhelmingly unpopular and that Democrats are simply getting their comeuppance for having pushed such a liberal set of reforms forward. These claims, however, rely on selective evidence, invariably citing policies like health care and the GM bailouts which are indeed unpopular (strongly so, in some cases), while ignoring many other issues on which Obama has been on the right side of public opinion.

In fact, a more objective and equivocal evaluation of public opinion on more than two dozen specific issues finds that the Republican Congress has far more often been on the wrong side of it. Attempting to be as comprehensive as possible, I've identified 25 issues that Obama and the Democrats have made an affirmative effort to push forward since taking office a year ago, and summarized public opinion on each of them. Most of the numbers that I've cited come from PollingReport.com.

Afghanistan Troop Escalation. An average of seven polls taken since President Obama's speech on Afghanistan in December show a 54-41 majority of the public in favor of escalating troop commitments. However, Obama appeared to get a bump from his speech, as an average of four polls conducted in November, prior to the speech, had shown a 49-46 plurality opposed to greater troop commitments.

Bank Tax. An NPR poll found a 57-39 majority in favor of the bank tax proposal, which the Congress has yet to consider, after being read arguments both for and against the program. (An ABC/Post poll found a 73-26 majority in favor of taxing financial sector bonuses over $1 million dollars, although the White House has not advocated for that measure.)

Ben Bernanke. The only poll on Ben Bernanke, from NBC/WSJ, found a 37-34 plurality opposed to his reappointment; Bernanke was approved by 22 of 40 Senate Republicans and 48 of 60 Senate Democrats.

Bush Tax Cuts. Although this polling is somewhat out of date, a CBS/NYT poll in April found 74 percent in favor, and 23 percent opposed, to raising taxes on those making more than $250,000 per year, as Obama's budget would do. A Newsweek poll in March, with somewhat different phrasing, found 49 percent in favor of letting the tax cuts on the wealthy expire and 42 percent opposed.

Campaign Finance. The only poll to have asked directly about the Supreme Court's Citizens United decision is from FOX News, which found voters disapproving of the decision 53-27. A Gallup poll conducted last month found that, while most Americans consider campaign finance to be a form of free speech, they nevertheless by a 52-41 margin felt that the ability to place limits on political contributions was the higher priority.

Cap-and-Trade. The last five organizations to release polls on cap-and-trade (AP/Stanford, ABC/Post, CNN, Pew, Rasmussen) actually show it favored by the public by a 51-40 margin, on average. It is likely that a significant fraction of the public does not understand what cap-and-trade is; nevertheless most of these polls provided descriptions of the bill's contents. Eight House Republicans voted for the climate bill in June; the Senate has yet to consider the measure.

Cash-for-Clunkers. The only organization to poll on this was Rasmussen, which found voters opposed to the program 35-54 in June, but a 44-38 plurality favoring the program in retrospect after it had been implemented.

Credit Card Protections. 77 percent of respondents favored the Credit Card Protection Act, according to a poll by Open Congress. The bill was approved 90-5 by the Senate in May, as well as by a 105-69 majority of House Republicans.

D.C. Voting Rights. 58 percent of the public favored, and 35 percent opposed, giving an a House seat to D.C. in a nationwide Washington Post poll conducted last February. The Senate approved D.C. voting rights by a 61-37 margin last February, with 6 Republicans voting in favor and 2 Democrats voting against, although the measure subsequently died in the House.

Fair Pay. Congress approved the Liddy Ledbetter Fair Pay Act last January; it received the support of 3 Republicans in the House and 5 in the Senate. A Rasmussen poll conducted shortly after the legislation passed found that Americans by a 66-24 majority do not believe that women earn equal pay for equal work, although it did not ask about the legislation specifically.

Financial Regulation. A Time/SRBI poll in October found that 59 percent of the public favors more regulation of Wall Street versus 13 percent favoring less and 22 percent the same amount. A CNN poll two weeks ago found 62 percent in favor of greater regulations and 35 percent opposed. House Republicans opposed the financial regulation bill unanimously.

Gays in the Military. Four organizations -- FOX, Gallup, Quinnipiac, and CNN -- have released polls on Don't Ask Don't Tell since Obama's inauguration. They show an average of 58 percent saying that Don't Ask Don't Tell should be repealed and that gays and lesbians should be allowed to serve openly in the military, and 35 percent opposed. No votes have yet occurred on DADT in either the House or the Senate, although the House's repeal legislation has just one Republican co-sponsor.

GM/Chrysler Bailout. Quite unpopular: an NBC/WSJ poll in early June showed 39 percent of the public in favor and 52 percent opposed to the bailout, and a CNN poll in April found that 22 percent of the public favored additional assistance to GM and Chrysler while 76 percent would have preferred to let them go bankrupt. (There was no specific vote on GM in this Congress; instead, its funds came by way of the TARP program.)

Guantanamo Bay. Four organizations to release polls on Gutantanamo Bay between last February and last June found an average 55 percent of Americans opposed to closing the detention facility and 39 percent in favor, with the number of those opposed tending to increase over time.

Hate Crimes. Although there have been no recent polls on the subject, a Gallup survey in May 2007 found a 68-27 majority in favor of expanding hate crimes statues to include sexual and gender identity. The Matthew Shepard act, a hate crimes measure, passed the Congress last year, receiving the support of 18 House Republicans and 5 Senate Republicans.

Health Care. It has clearly become unpopular; the latest Pollster.com trendlines show 38 percent in favor of the bill and 55 percent opposed. One Republican voted for the health care bill in the House and none did in the Senate.

Jobs Bill. A CNN poll in December found 74 percent thought Obama should concentrate on creating more jobs "even if it means less deficit reduction." A Bloomberg/Selzer poll, also in December, asked about specific measures that might be undertaken as part of a jobs bill and found 68 percent in favor (and 28 percent opposed) to tax credits, and 66 percent in favor (versus 32 percent opposed) of spending on public works projects, although just 48 percent were in favor of additional assistance to state and local governments. House Republicans unanimously opposed a $100 billion jobs bill in December.

Mortgage Relief. Senate Republican unanimously voted against the Durbin Amendment to provide mortgage relief in April, as did 12 Senate Democrats. However, four organizations which polled on mortgage relief in February through April found an average of 60 percent of Americans in support of additional assistance versus 34 percent opposed.

PAYGO. There is no specific polling on Congressional pay-go rules, which Senate Republicans recently voted against 40-0., but in the abstract moves toward balancing the budget are almost always popular, such as a CNN poll in November which found 67 percent preferring balanced budgets to deficits "even when the country is in a recession and is at war."

SCHIP. Although there have been no recent polls on SCHIP (children's health care), an ABC/Post poll in September, 2007 found it supported 72-25 by the public, and a CNN poll in October, 2007 found that the public wanted by a 61-35 margin for the Congress to override President Bush's veto of the program. Nine Republican Senators voted to extend SCHIP in February as did 40 House Republicans.

Sonia Sotomayor. The last five polls to be released on Sonia Sotmayor in advance of her confirmation showed 52 percent in favor of her confirmation and 30 percent opposed, on average. Senate Republicans opposed her confirmation 31-9.

Stimulus. The stimulus has become somewhat unpopular now -- although most individual elements of the program remain popular. However, the stimulus was somewhat popular at the time of its passage. An average of the last five organizations to release polls in advance of the Senate's vote on the stimulus on 2/9/09 showed 50 percent in favor of the bill and 38 percent opposed. House Republicans opposed the stimulus unanimously; Senate Republicans gave it 3 votes.

TARP. The TARP program began under Bush and was extended before Obama took office, but Obama nevertheless actively lobbied Democrats for its extension. TARP was unpopular from the get-go, and Americans opposed its extension 56-32 last January, according to a poll then from Diageo/Hotline. All but 6 Senate Republicans voted not to extend TARP.

Terrorist Trials. An average of two recent polls from Rasmussen and CBS had 38 percent of the public in favor of terror trials in civilian courts, but 55 percent opposed.

Torture Memos and Investigations. Four polls conducted in April showed an average of 43 percent of Americans in favor and 51 percent opposed into an investigation of Bush-era torture policies. The only poll to ask about the release of the Bush torture memos, from ABC/Post, found 53 percent in favor and 44 percent opposed.

*-*

Of these 25 issues, Obama's position appears to be on the right side of public opinion on 14: the bank tax, repealing the Bush tax cuts for the wealthy, campaign finance, the credit card bill, D.C. voting rights, fair pay, financial regulation, gays in the military, hate crimes, the jobs bill, mortgage relief, PAYGO, SCHIP, and Sotomayor. It would appear to be on the wrong side of public opinion on five issues: the GM/Chrysler bailout, Guantanamo Bay, health care, the extension of the TARP program, and terrorist trials. On the other six issues, the polling is probably too ambiguous to render a clear verdict.

Republicans, on the other hand, have been overwhelmingly opposed to almost all of these measures with the exception of Ben Bernanke and Afghanistan troops, both of which poll ambiguously, and the credit card bill, which polled well.

Obviously, this analysis is superficial in certain ways. All issues are by no means created equal, and health care in particular, which is unpopular, has weighed heavily upon the public's perception of the Democrats. In addition, there is probably another layer of 'meta-argument' that goes beyond specific issues, and at which the GOP has tended to excel.

Nevertheless, it runs in contrast to the objective evidence when one asserts, as Hanson does, that "On every issue ... the Obama position polls 5-15 points below 50 percent." Rather, the votes taken by the Republican Congress have far more often been out of step with those of the median voter.

This is not to give a mulligan to the White House or to the Democrats -- as I've written before, their meta-strategy has necessarily had to be somewhat terrible so as to take what has been a fairly popular and centrist agenda and have it regarded as overwhelmingly contentious and partisan by so much of the public.

EDIT: What about EFCA/card check? I didn't forget about it; rather, I excluded it because it's something which the Democrats abandoned early on and which the White House never lifted a finger for. Obviously, there are a lot of policies that the Democrats theoretically have in their arsenal -- card check, legalizing pot, gay marriage, nationalizing the banks, a radically more progressive tax code, etc. -- which are both quite liberal and (with one or two possible exceptions) quite unpopular. But the Congressional Democrats didn't spend much of any effort on those issues, and the White House spent essentially none. The agenda they've spent their political capital on, rather, has been quite centrist -- which is sort of the whole point of this article.
If you did include card check, by the way, the verdict would be rather ambiguous. Ignoring some amazingly crappy (and contradictory) partisan polling on both sides of the topic, the closest we have to a neutral poll is this one from Gallup, which shows 53 percent in favor of a "new law that would make it easier for labor unions to organize workers" but which is probably too vague to be useful. To be clear, my hunch is that card check would indeed prove to become unpopular if it were debated more vigorously -- but that's just a hunch, and we're trying to rely on the objective evidence for this exercise.

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And yes, bluebell. Where is FDR? (I thought Obama had some of that in him.)

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“He was thoughtful and grave—but the orders he gave
Were enough to bewilder a crew.
When he cried "Steer to starboard, but keep her head larboard!"
What on earth was the helmsman to do?”

-Lewis Carroll, Hunting for Obama, er, just kidding, The Hunting of the Snark, An Agony in Eight Fits.

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I also don't think that a Nazi-style situation could evolve, but I do see a lot of turmoil, some of it violent, on the horizon. I would not pooh-pooh the concerns expressed in this blog even if they might be slightly alarmist.

The thing is to diffuse these nativist/nationalist and that is what I think is going on.

Precisely because Sarah Palin is no Adolph Hitler, it seems a good idea to boost her visibility at this point. Rupert might be doing us a favor is setting her up as a media fixture from Wasilla.

Nevertheless there is considerable tension in the air. Not just right wing versus left wing but populist (right and left) versus these clowns we have running government now.

What troubles me is that there does not seem to be any charismatic leaders that can steer us towards a safer path.

I attribute that to decades of being subjected to a culture of greed and corruption which has corrupted large segments of the nation down to the very roots.

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http://rawstory.com/news/2008/Bush_Administration_created_executive_pay_loophole_1215.html

ever hear of the term, "loopholes"?

'a single sentence, in the TARP Bill, to reduce benefits for execs, as companies slash tens of thousands of jobs, and then use taxpayer money to buy companies at fire sale prices'
by John Byrne/the raw story.com

This reporter had it right from the very beginning, and right now, its affecting millions of people just like you.

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Allrighty, then -- an instance in which we are learning from the past....appalling -- when all else fails -- recruit the children....

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Hitler Youth ?

C

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What? Analogies to the Nazis are now ok? Since when?

On any Israel-Palestine threads you fucked-up Lefties always ridicule them as "Warsaw Ghetto" mentality. But they're ok if they serve your purposes.

Cheap whores, the lot of you.

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Would another hour of sleep help? If not that, try a shot of Jim Beam.

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The analogy with pre-war Czechoslovakia, the appeasement analogy is the one you lefties don't like. Because it's too close to the truth, too easily justified, too explicit. On every Israel-Palestine thread you can find posters asking why such a small people should hold the rest of us hostage? Why are their interests more important than our safety? Let's just give the Arabs the Israeli defenses in exchange for international guarantees, and then forget it.

The analogy at the head of this thread is much, much weaker. During the Great Depression there was no danger of a fascist/Nazi takeover of this country or Great Britain. Neither we nor the British resembled Germany, in culture or history. Au contraire, the danger came from the Left, from Communists, socialists, and labor. Many, many people were attracted by their promises and their organizers. Even then, the danger was small and easily countered by the election of FDR. The situation is the same today.

Hoppy, here's some advice. If you want to respond to serious, but admittedly rude, criticisms with smart ass remarks instead of reasoned replies, get a new picture. You look like an old fool, a simpleton.

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In addition to your low-road insult of Hoppy you have an interesting read of Great Depression history, spider.

It was people who were considered to his left who pressured and prodded FDR to take bolder steps than he might otherwise have--but obviously was open to taking. This helped our country hobble through economically in a still-wretched state until World War II. But there was a broad sense that that government, FDR's government, cared and would act to mitigate widespread misery. Capitalism was, temporarily at least, saved from its excesses and those among its proponents who hated Roosevelt and resisted the practical measures he was trying and taking to relieve the massive suffering.

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He moved to the Left because that's where the principal danger lay. That's how he saved capitalism from the left.

If I wasn't clear in my previous post I think I am now.

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The teeny, tiny far left of that day was never going to take power in this country. FDR did, wisely in the manner of many a successful politician, coopt some of the best of their ideas. The current President doesn't even need to look for ideas from the far left of today, such as it is. He only needs to do what the majority of the people in our country want him to do. The forces he is up against may well be more powerful than those FDR was up against, in fact, probably so, I would say.

FDR's presidency far more so saved us from the right, the plutocrats and the free market fundamentalists of his day who were unwilling or unable to escape from the mental shackles they had constructed for themselves and might well have ended up imprisoning the rest of us in.

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You're drifting and distorting. The Left was not teeny and the right you describe were not fascists.

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The right I describe were not fascists, no. The role they played might have amounted to a warmup act given the context of those times, had their views prevailed. Father Charles Coughlin had audiences of 40 million during the 1930s, far larger than the total number of leftists by any definition you might care to use. And if he wasn't a fascist, he was a vile and dangerous man.

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Please. The Germans of WWI had not been forgotten. Father Coughlin had a large audience but so did the Reds who made movies, who were not that great either.

Who can say what would have happened if Roosevelt had not been elected. But he was and that tells you a great deal about the mentality of the nation. It put up with Hoover for 4 years, then elected Roosevelt. It didn't elect some fringe candidate, it didn't resort to ever increasing street riots.

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Oh, and re your comment that "it could never happen here": Wanna find out? Gee, maybe we should play with fire and see what happens? As for me, no thanks.

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First, the thrust of my posts was the dishonesty of the Left in its treatment of analogies to the Nazis.

Second, leftie dishonesty seems to be a lot deeper than I suspected. You say

re your comment that "it could never happen here"

Did I say that? I re-read my posts 4 times and couldn't find it. If you can, then quote the post in its entirety.
Of course it could happen here. That's why I think I didn't say what you claimed. What I said was that it didn't happen in the most analogous situation and therefore the analogy was weak.

Third, you're going to find out, whether you like it or not, because the chances of a decent recovery, of returning to an official unemployment rate of 5% in the near future, are zero. We're going to stay near 10% officially, and above 15% unofficially, for years.

Fourth, scaremongering about unlikely events is stupid. Protect yourself against a communist/socialist takeover...but, of course, that's what you want so there's no motivation to act against it, is there?

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What communists are threatening to take over? There are very few, if any, communist governments left in the world, and, in fact, there have been almost none in the history of the world. What we refer to as communism was actually totalitarianism, with one brutal leader running the whole country. I know of no one in favor of that, unless it is the Repubs.

Socialism has never been a threat to anyone except the money loving class, those who are intent on accumulating as much money as is humanly possible. For ordinary people socialism means a retirement income guaranteed by the government, a medical care insurance program that prevent old people from dying from lack of basic care, a financial hand when you lose a job, until you can get another one, fire protection without having to buy it, police protection without having to buy it, roads open to everyone, etc. I'm a proud socialist in those terms, as are most everyone else in this country.

If you are worried that we will become more socialistic in the future, you are right that we will do that, but wrong to worry about it. This is the only nation in the industrialized world that fears socialism and lets the money collectors dictate our goals. The times are changing.

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Actually, I don't worry about anyone taking over anything in America, right now or in the near future. That's why the article pissed me off.
All I see is the usual give and take of American politics, the ups and downs of American business.

There are long term trends which worry not just me, but everyone. But, so far, our system has proved flexible enough to handle all challenges.

I'm sure there'll be a move towards the socialism you describe if hard times continue because that's what has been shown to work. It doesn't bother me. I think it's an appropriate response.
If good times return then we'll head back towards where we were a few years ago. That, too, doesn't bother me.

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Interesting nom· de plume. An insect that is know to eat it's own.

C

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Your comment seems to assume that the only factor affecting the degree of social instability is the statistical unemployment rate. I do not think that is so. I think it makes a great deal of difference if people who are hurting badly believe their government cares enough to act to try to relieve that suffering, if they see it so acting, and if they see fellow citizens who their government has helped to get back on their feet.

By contrast, when a government is seen as out of touch, as not doing what it reasonably could, as not responding to widespread grievances, as not seeking to redress gross injustices--then a society's morale and sense of hope decay and anger towards those in power builds, anger which can and historically often has been exploited with horrific results.

I think the greater risk in our day, as Robert Kuttner wrote prior to the 2008 elections, is not one of overly aggressive action to deal with the economy, but of insufficiently aggressive action. You can try to red bait if you want. But to me it's a practical matter of doing what needs to be done. Big public jobs bills and regulating Wall Street are things that should be a whole lot less to scary to those worried about government competence and over-reaching, on account of our having done these things before in our own history. By and large these measures (WPA, Glass-Steagall, SEC, as examples) have been seen as positive and valuable, perhaps essential.

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The past doesn't repeat itself. There are at least twice as many people alive today as there were in the '30s. Peak oil is approaching, maybe, global warming ditto, maybe, and we are definitely stressing our environment more than we did previously. On the other hand our science and technology are much, much better.

So the past is only a suggestion, not a map.

I know a lot of teabaggers. They're my rural neighbors and I can assure you they're not unreasonable, uncaring, intolerant, stupid monsters. They just have a view in which independence is highly valued and government much distrusted, and that leads them to very different conclusions than yours.

It's always like that. We'll just have to see how it plays out.

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Oh, I value independence. Interdependence is a reality, however. You sound as though you might be a fan of Ayn Rand. Are you by any chance?

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No. No more than I'm a fan of Madame Blavatsky or that other great mysticist of the '20s and '30s, Gurdjieff. I never took any of them seriously but I do enjoy some of their insights.

Gurdjieff was asked why it was that so few escaped the wheel and achieved salvation. He replied that the moon was a creature which ate souls. Because it was so large it didn't notice if a few escaped - but only a few. How can anyone not agree with that?

Are you a fan of Marxist analysis?

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And Keyensian economics and beliefs that people mattered ended up working then, and built massive amounts of infrastructure projects that only George Will can laugh at. The same theories managed to help create some sane layers of regulations on the markets and banks.
With the neo-liberal policies taking hold in the past couple decades, the better ideas scarcely get a hearing. Our Prez knew the right thing to do before he got into the White House, I think, and was instructed or chose to put his faith, and our economic destinies into the hands of the Rubin-Summers-Goldman Sachs Cabal.

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Oh, and I will give you that Nazi Germany analogies are over-used to the point of largely losing whatever shock value they might have. In "It could happen here" there are plenty of exceptionally undesirable states of affairs that the "It" can refer to when widespread suffering and grievances are exploited by demagogues for nefarious ends.

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I'll agree its a competitve market out there for sure, you can't add several million more men looking for work in each of the major metro areas and not add some stress with it. Although I'm sure that the bars and liquor stores are getting alot more business out of this, since people don't have work the next morning...

what is the bible?

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What is the Bible?

An interesting -- often exceptional -- compilation of stories and philosophic musings written by Persians and Greeks of a Hebrew persuasion.

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And: What is referred to as "The Bible" is actually better understood as the "the Bibles".

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This chart shows that the number of working males has dropped back to 1996 levels when there were 30 million less citizens in the U.S. A lot of angry unemployed men in an interregnum is a recipe for social unrest and fascism.

A foreign substance is introduced into our precious bodily fluids without the knowledge of the individual. Certainly without any choice. That's the way your hard-core fascist takeover works.

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Through the optic nerve, and before you know; we feed upon it, until it has corrupted our minds.

We had a choice and we failed to RESIST.

The air of this world has been inhaled and adopted. Now our minds are comfortably numb,and we no longer see it has blinded us too.

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I was quoting Dr. Strangelove.

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