Jerusalem Post No Longer A Newspaper & Avatar Is Subversive!
UPDATE:
Two years ago, at a family event, an Israeli guest noticed Wolf Blitzer in attendance and said, "In Israel, we took CNN off the cable packages for being anti-Israel. Now we have FOX which is great."
My younger son, astounded, said, "You banned CNN because you think it's anti-Israel. When will Israel start acting like a real country?"
The Israeli was offended and, after posing for a photo with Wolf, said that America is just as bad for banning Al Jazeera which Israelis watch. Touche!
Anyway, my kid's point was well-taken. Today the JERUSALEM POST, which foreigners consider to be a real Israeli newspaper, fired the liberal columnist Naomi Chazan for being affiliated with the New Israel Fund which is somehow connected with the Goldstone Report which has terrified Israel more than a hundred nukes in Ahmadinejad's pocket.
In case you missed it, there are all kinds of weird Goldstone-related stuff going down in Israel, not just crazy Alan Dershowitz calling for Goldstone's murder.
As for the Jerusalem Post, it it as if the teabaggers here had their own "newspaper." Unlike the other Israeli newspapers widely distributed on the web (Yediot or Ynet, Ha'aretz, Ma'ariv), the Jerusalem Post is an English language newspaper only read in hotel lobbies by American tourists and by a few thousand former Americans, Brits, Canadians and South Africans living in Israel. It has no Hebrew-speaking audience and, as you may know, Israelis speak Hebrew.
Still, it is sad to watch another newspaper sink into oblivion, even if its only a "newspaper."
****
I saw AVATAR tonight. Great film.
But it is the most anti-American major film ever. The bad guys are clearly Americans. The good indigenous bluish people are a combination of American Indians, Africans, native Latin and Central Americans, Vietnamese, Palestinians (the women ululate during battle), Afghans (when they fought the Soviets) pre-Holocaust European Jews, and pretty much any natives whose civilization gets destroyed by more technologically advanced outsiders.
So the victims are an amalgam of exploited, colonialized and sometimes exterminated people. But the bad guys seem to be...us.
Not to give anything away but the folks in my theater cheered every time an "American" chopper-like thing was shot down by the Third Worldish extraterrestrials. And when that Cheney/Rumsfeld/ Westmoreland guy....Well, you'll have to see it.
Am I getting this movie right? If I am, James Cameron is one subversive dude. But in a good way.
Th dialog sucked big time.
He needs to hire a speechwriter. Just sayin'.
Titanic was just as bad, dialogue-wise
I saw it 3D Max
Hope you did.
February 4, 2010 11:04 PM | Reply | Permalink
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March 25, 2011 9:46 AM | Reply | Permalink
MJ,
Perhaps you've never seen Dances With Wolves? Or Ferngully for that matter?
I seriously hope this post is at least somewhat tongue-in-cheek. If Avatar is what passes for subversive at this point in the game.. I shudder to think.
February 4, 2010 11:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
Again Palestinians , Jews , Holocaust ...
tired..........
February 5, 2010 12:10 AM | Reply | Permalink
Ayzeh chutzpah. We Americans are allowed to discuss your country, Settler Boy. Get used to it. (I suppose we would discuss it less if it wasn't for the #3 billion a year we give you).
Now to scare you a little: GOLDSTONE!
February 5, 2010 7:33 AM | Reply | Permalink
Settler boy ?
My roommates are : 1 Arab christian ,1 Arab Muslim , 1 KIbutznik and Me (urban)
You will never find something like that in your "Liberal" world
February 5, 2010 9:18 AM | Reply | Permalink
Really? And I bet your roommates love you stealing their land.
MJ: A serious newspaper doesn't have a permanent part of its masthead titled "Iranian Threat". The J-Post hasn't been a real newspaper for a long, long time.
February 5, 2010 10:54 AM | Reply | Permalink
My Christian Roommate is more Radical(Against Islamists) than any Right winger!
stealing their land ? -Like the European rednecks did to The Indians indigenous In Manhattan ?
February 5, 2010 11:46 AM | Reply | Permalink
Kind of like Tom Friedman's unnamed Arab friends who always seem to sound exactly like Tom Friedman.
February 5, 2010 12:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
The Dutch paid the Indians $26. A rotten deal, but a deal, no children were slaughtered and there was no crybabying all over the public sphere of another larger European country for 40 years. Being 70% or 80% or even 15% as bad as the Nazis were is unacceptable, especially if you use American taxdollars to fund your cowardly land thievery.
February 5, 2010 8:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
"My roommates are : 1 Arab christian ,1 Arab Muslim , 1 KIbutznik and Me (urban)"
If the West Bank and all of Israel could manage the same sort of peaceful co-existence, and every neighborhood was as ethnically mixed, we would not be having this conversation.
I've said for years, if Israeli's were willing to build multi-ethnic settlements instead of ethnic enclaves, there might be some real progress in the Middle East.
Any religious faith that can only survive when isolated from the rest of humanity isn't very sound in the first place. Jews learned long ago how to integrate into foreign cultures, throughout history, no race of men better understands Skolnik's Law; "Keep a bag packed."
It would behoove Tel Aviv to remember that their own Hebrew ancestors were strangers in foreign lands themselves, and many of those foreigners were compassionate enough to bring them in and give them shelter and assimilate them into their culture. And yet Judaism seems to have survived intact, despite all that outside influence.
If new West Bank settlements included Muslims, Christians AND Jews in their expansion, they might not feel so threatened.
February 6, 2010 11:22 AM | Reply | Permalink
I guess my point is, religious tolerance and cultural diversity start at the neighborhood level, not the national or state level.
February 6, 2010 11:37 AM | Reply | Permalink
If new West Bank settlements included Muslims, Christians AND Jews in their expansion, they might not feel so threatened.
This is the reality in Jerusalem, Haifa, jaffa ,Beer-Sheva , Acre ,Lod , Ramle ,Hebron/Kiryat arba
and many parts of the west bank
You don't see this in TV because there is no action!
February 6, 2010 6:54 PM | Reply | Permalink
The principal production company and distributor was Twentieth Century Fox Film Corporation, a subsidiary of News Corporation, the media conglomerate owned by Rupert Murdoch. They're the people who put up the money to make it, invented or improved the technology, and got the lion's share of the profits.
Not "the American Indians, Africans, native Latin and Central Americans, Vietnamese, Palestinians, Afghans, pre-Holocaust European Jews, and (assorted other) natives".
You're being worked you dumb anti-American, subversive, ignorant fuck. You and the rest of the audience.
February 5, 2010 12:55 AM | Reply | Permalink
..If I am, James Cameron is one subversive dude.
I haven't seen the movie. But I would like to lodge a strong protest about this kind of language. Many of us who are trying to downsize the empire, and who criticize imperialism and imperial wars, believe we are trying to strengthen our country, not subvert it.
February 5, 2010 7:39 AM | Reply | Permalink
I said subversive in a good way. And that is what I meant.
February 5, 2010 7:57 AM | Reply | Permalink
I think it is safe to say, "subversive" and "patriot" can both be applied to some characters throughout history.
I kind of like that term "subversive patriot."
Sounds so 1776-ish.
February 6, 2010 10:50 AM | Reply | Permalink
When the Na'vi ran off those murdering corporatists dudes, along with their hired soldiers, those corporatists came back and settled down on Wall Street.
Astronomers have found the area where their home world is - near the Cygnus system.
February 5, 2010 8:13 AM | Reply | Permalink
Hmmm, when I was a kid, the mice were the heroes in the cartoons, but that didn't help the real mice too much.
February 5, 2010 8:57 AM | Reply | Permalink
Bad Americans. Bad, bad, bad. Indian fetish. Envionmentally sound gibberish. Inflated sense of importance and moral superiority. Vague hippie whale-song values that work as well in the real world as pissing in outer space.
Subversive? Sounds like a Hollywood AA meeting.
All these "subversive" elements have been hallmark of American films for almost half a century now, beginning with "Little Big Man". The exhausted subversion of "Avatar" is standard. It's establishment, if you will. In fact, that worldview is all we get. Relentlessly. Name a Hollywood movie about the Iraq War that doesn't paint the American military as anything other than the epitome of evil? One.
And I think that's why no one really pays attention to this junk anymore.
"Avatar" is sold via its hyperviolence. It's all video-game presentation - technically advanced, simplistic narrative with dread villains and virtuous heroes. The real world is a bit more complex, and when all the "Avatar" teeny-boppers age a few years and realize that inconvenient truth, they'll come to despise the hypocritical crap they were once told in films like this.
February 5, 2010 10:19 AM | Reply | Permalink
I tend to agree with your assessment of Avatar's faults, but I have to say in spite of it all that it was a pretty thrilling entertainment nonetheless.
February 5, 2010 10:38 AM | Reply | Permalink
I haven't made any kind of comprehensive review, Curt, nor have I seen many of these movies.
But my sense is that America isn't painted exclusively with a black brush. Blackhawk Down, comes to mind, though I understand that's Somalia.
Of course, we aren't seeing a great rush of WWII-style, America-The-Hero type flicks--mostly, I think, because they don't match Americans' evaluation of the war.
Okay, a quick, informal review:
• Saving Jessica Lynch
• Heavy Metal in Baghdad
• The Kingdom
• The Messenger
LOL. Now, none of these are the Dirty Dozen, if that's what you're looking for, but most of them deal with the various costs to Americans and don't really paint America as the "epitome of evil." Most paint a morally ambiguous landscape. Appropriate in my view.
February 5, 2010 10:41 AM | Reply | Permalink
Why do you think it's appropriate to so wildly mischaracterize what others say. This is not an isolated instance; it's habitual. And to do so in such an inflammatory way. You are no better, indeed worse, than Dershowitz.
February 5, 2010 10:36 AM | Reply | Permalink
"You are no better, indeed worse, than Dershowitz."
Impossible.
Armchair: Why are you putting your credibility on the line defending Dershy? Have you not compared "From Time Immemorial" to "The Case for Israel"? At best, Dershy repeats as true ahistorical information.
February 5, 2010 10:58 AM | Reply | Permalink
As you, and every educated person, should know, historical FACT is hard to come by. That's why historians, who know the facts better than anyone, so often disagree...especially about events which are currently contentious.
Dershowitz, I'm sure, believes one set of historians while you believe another but I doubt he's so dumb or careless as to assert something supported by none of them. He's not Rosenberg.
February 5, 2010 11:36 AM | Reply | Permalink
If you were smarter you would realize that I already did.
February 5, 2010 12:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
If you were smarter you would realize you didn't.
Sure I can read and compare the articles, read the footnotes, the references, the criticisms by others. I probably will do that no matter how you respond.
But I want particular examples from you. Particular examples. A couple of statements which Dershowitz makes about the history of the middle east that are known to be untrue.
If there's any substance to your claim you can certainly do that.
February 5, 2010 1:04 PM | Reply | Permalink
I looked at the Wikipedia articles on your two books...and found just what I expected to find; Chomsky and Finklestein on one side, Dershowitz and Pipes on the other, trading claims and accusations, with the usual supporting casts of thousands of extras.
The actual evidence concerning the population of Palestine during the 19th and early 20th century? If you look at the history of the place from Napolean's invasion in 1803 or thereabouts through the various slaughters and depopulations of the 1840s to Mark Twain's 1869 observation you know that it was a sad, sad place with few people and no opportunities. Couple that with the general state of the Ottoman Empire during the same period and later and, well, you know where I stand.
February 5, 2010 2:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
Spider: Mark Twain also said the Greece was a wasteland. He was being satirical. Others take him literally. Just like they blieve that God is a real estate agent.
BTW, I am amused that you think I should put up enough evidence to convince you. As if any amount of evidence would convince you.
Man may be--but you are not--the measure of all things.
February 5, 2010 2:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
Satirical? Hardly.
Try this on for size, from a Palestinian source
http://www.palestineremembered.com/Acre/Articles/Story845.html
You won't provide even the most meager evidence...because you don't have it. So you resort to sniffing at me, looking down your nose ... as if others can't see the stick protruding from your ass.
I called you incompetent. But you're worse. You're pathetic.
February 5, 2010 3:41 PM | Reply | Permalink
Thanks for the link, Spider. Of course, it would help if you actually knew how to read.
From your link about Mark Twain's quote: "This quote has been widely circulated in Israeli text books, media outlets, and many Jewish communities around the world as FACTS about Palestine. As we will prove below, this quote was taken out of context to portray Palestine as "empty, destitute, and a barren desert", of course until Israeli and Zionist Jews "made" its desert bloom."
Ouch. I feel like I'm clubbing a baby seal here.
February 5, 2010 4:44 PM | Reply | Permalink
That's their claim but, if you could read and think, you'd see that they never succeed. Why do you think I posted that link, hmmm...?
Further, their quotes and claims DO prove conclusively that Twain was definitely NOT being satirical.
I've had enough of you.
February 5, 2010 5:28 PM | Reply | Permalink
Does that mean we're no longer going steady? I haven't felt this much pathos since the credits rolled on "Sixteen Candles."
BTW, Spider, just because you are not convinced by something doesn't mean it isn't true. You're a sundial in an age of atomic clocks.
February 5, 2010 5:37 PM | Reply | Permalink
For those interested in pursuing the condition of Palestine in the 19th century here's an obscure 1903 description by a non-political traveler
http://www.archive.org/stream/aphotographicex00salmgoog/aphotographicex00salmgoog_djvu.txt
There are references to earlier expeditions and descriptions but this should be enough. The place was a desolation in a dying empire.
February 5, 2010 7:06 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'm not defending Dersh. Alls I'm saying is that having followed the links in MJ's previous post describing this "controversy," there is no fair interpretation of his comments that would support the claim that he somehow endorsed the assassination of Goldstone. To say so is intellectually dishonest. More important, it's the type of overheated bombast that makes reasoned discussion even more elusive - one Glenn Beck is too much.
That's not to say I endorse Dershowitz's comments. It's neither helpful nor accurate to attack Goldstone personally. It's the merits of the report that bears his name that interest me. While I tend to agree with the report's critics (no surprise there), there are some very disturbing allegations that need to be independently investigated.
As for credibility, I'm surprised to learn I had some.
February 5, 2010 12:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
Just a little. :)
February 5, 2010 12:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
I know you were not Jewishly educated. I was. It is common knowledge that a "moser" (look it up) is a traitor to the Jews, an informer, an apostate, and is subject to the death penalty.
You need to take a course in Judaism not sponsored by AIPAC. I can't decide if you are an apikoros or an am ha'aretz (look them up).
February 5, 2010 11:08 AM | Reply | Permalink
See my comment to MB just above. I followed all the links in your previous post. Even taking Dershowitz's comments in their worst possible light (and I agree that they were outrageous, unfair and, more importantly, counterproductive), no fair reading supports the ludicrous charge that Dershowitz called for (or even tacitly endorsed) Goldstone's murder. That's just Glenn Beck shit and it's no less offensive just because it comes from the left.
I am neither a heretic (apikoros) nor a peasant (am haaretz). I have little use for theology and nothing whatsoever to do with AIPAC - notwithstanding your repeated empty invocations of that well-worn shibboleth.
February 5, 2010 12:12 PM | Reply | Permalink
I would add that as a criminal defense attorney, according to Richard Silverstein, I am a paid (a pittance, actually) dissembler.
I would also add that the only ones out there saying anything about killing Goldstone are yourself and Mr. Silverstein.
February 5, 2010 12:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
Armchair: I hope you are not developing an inferiority complex about being a criminal defense attorney. Just speaking for myself, I sincerely appreciate what you do for the accused.
February 5, 2010 2:27 PM | Reply | Permalink
What, you mean taking pleas? (Actually, I just won a full acquittal on a fairly significant case, but who's keeping track?)
I'm a valkyre, according to this quote I just came across today:
“Public defenders stand alone, armed only with their wits, training, and dedication. Inspired by their clients’ hope, faith and trust, they are the warriors and valkyries of those desperately in need of a champion. Public defenders, by protecting the downtrodden and the poor, shield against infringement of our protections and, in reality, protect us all.” Hightower v. State, 592 So.2d 689 (Fla 3d DCA 1991)
Not exactly, but I'll take it.
February 5, 2010 3:04 PM | Reply | Permalink
Good for you. A public defender is a very, very important function.
I don't know what's its like in New York, but in Texas most of our judges are former prosecutors. In fact, one of our criminal appellate judges recently ran re-election on a platform of being "pro-prosecutor." I'm not kidding.
February 5, 2010 4:55 PM | Reply | Permalink
While I'm here for a brief visit, kudos to Mythbuster for writing what I think all good people should understand, and that is that the work you do as a criminal defense lawyer Armchair is the kind of stuff that all of us should be thankful for. The right to counsel is one of the fundamental underpinnings of our free and democratic society, and for alleged "progressives" to suggest to the contrary renders them anything other than progressive; at most, it renders them incredibly ignorant about what we Americans are all about.
AG, you're a criminal defense attorney and keep your head held high because of it.
Bruce
February 6, 2010 2:06 PM | Reply | Permalink
I wasn't "Jewishly" educated. I don't speak Hebrew or Yiddish. I've been to a synagogue once or twice in my life and have no interest in religion. Any religion.
So your post made me curious and I googled "Alan Dershowitz+moser". I found that moser=traitor, pretty much, and that traitor is one of the few crimes punishable by death in civilized societies. You stopped there...but I didn't. As any reasonable person would suspect there are subtleties http://www.forward.com/articles/124867/.
There's no doubt Dershowitz hates Goldstone, despises him as someone who's stupidly done serious harm to the Jewish people. not individual Jews but the Jewish people. There's also no doubt that he used the terms traitor, moser, monster in an informal, emotional way. In the way posters on this site used "traitor" to characterize Senator Leiberman. You were one of those, weren't you?
February 5, 2010 12:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
No, my uneducated fan. No one confusers moser or monster. Dershowitz tried to get out of his blunder by playing off the fact that there is a one letter difference between the two words.
He knew exactly what he was saying.
By the way, I knew you had no Jewish education but, wow, you really are off the charts. So your Jewish fanaticism is an outgrowth of your ignorance and race hatred of Arabs. Big suprise!
February 5, 2010 1:14 PM | Reply | Permalink
Did you or did you not call Senator Leiberman a traitor?
I know you called him "treacherous" and I know you said nothing when P. Troub repeatedly called him "traitor" on two (or more) of your threads. So save me the trouble of looking further.
I have enough now to know that in a decent court you would be convicted of incitement to murder at the very least, if you were being judged by your own standards.
I said, after doing a little research,
so stop responding to things I didn't say. And stop claiming you can read Dershowitz' mind and that you know for sure what he heard or didn't hear, what he felt or didn't feel. You don't.
As for the last claim...you're nothing but a race-baiting scum-bag. Now that's no surprise. Surprise, not suprise, you sloppy, pretentious ignoramous.
February 5, 2010 1:47 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yup, Spider. I feel ya. I once was a regular at a site that focused heavily on classical French literature. I was like you, very opinionated and very contemptuous of the pretentious guy who wrote the blog.
But then I mentioned that I did not speak or read French. And everybody said I was a moron and should go away.
But, like you, my response was "why do I need to speak French to opine on French literature."
The arrogance. The smugness.
February 5, 2010 3:41 PM | Reply | Permalink
You were never like me in any way, but, as a matter of fact, I spoke fluent French 40 years ago and can still get by...as if that were relevant.
Most Israelis speak English, especially educated Israelis - historians, for example - and they write in English. Perhaps you hadn't noticed, you ignorant snob.
Now, for the third or forth time, did you or did you not call Senator Leiberman a traitor? That's a very simple question so why are you having such a difficult time answering?
February 5, 2010 4:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
France's gain is our loss.
February 5, 2010 4:58 PM | Reply | Permalink
Lieberman has certainly been a traitor to all Democrats suckered into voting for him. And greedy Dershie betrayed the victims of OJ's murder. Not that either is terribly germane, in English or French or any butchered rendition of either, to the main point about Israel's descent into barbarism.
February 7, 2010 4:11 PM | Reply | Permalink
Dershowitz said, in 2007, that he does not speak Hebrew. Therefore the interview in question must have been in English. So tell me again, why is the ability to speak Hebrew germain?
February 5, 2010 7:44 PM | Reply | Permalink
The comparison is ridiculous.
Dershowitz, whether or not you agree with him, is a very smart guy and a highly trained lawyer, capable of responding to all challenges with strong arguments and supporting facts.
Rosenberg is a dope.
February 5, 2010 11:29 AM | Reply | Permalink
Maybe JPOST do not reflect Israel
But Haaretz also - They have only 2% of the readers in Israel .
They are close to bankruptcy (They own the banks Hundreds million NIS) - They didn't update (Design,Technology) their website since 1996 (Their website look like the sit i build when i Was 14 years old).
G.levy & Amira SS are not a real reporters - They brought to Haaretz for rating and to make provocations
If you want to read a real Israeli newspaper (reflect the vast majority in Israel) - Read "Maariv"(NRG.co.il) ,"Yediot" (Ynet.co.il) Or the new one (The rising Star) "Yisrael Hayonm"
February 5, 2010 11:55 AM | Reply | Permalink
Thanks, Hasbara Man. You want us to read a newspaper owned by an American casino billionaire whose main claim to fame here is union busting in Las Vegas. Thanks, Hasbara Man, well done. Gimme back my $3 b.
http://www.lycos.com/info/sheldon-adelson--israel-hayom.html
February 5, 2010 12:03 PM | Reply | Permalink
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Sheldon_Adelson
February 5, 2010 12:06 PM | Reply | Permalink
Here is an article published in Ha'aretz where Dershowitz say that Goldstone is an evil, evil man and a traitor to the people. It is very much akin to a call for his death and could easily be taken as such.
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1146392.html
February 5, 2010 3:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
For very many years the excuse for Israeli arrogance and rudeness was said to be an inferiority complex - now they exhibit paranoia, stemming no doubt from a growing awareness that they cannot bury Goldstone nor can they continue to claim to act merely as other armies act.
They know, as we know, that no other army anywhere in the world deliberately targets children on the pretext that they were a threat to a heavily armed attacking force. Over 300 hundred children died in Gaza in January, unarmed and defenceless against tanks and missiles fired upon a civilian population from helicopters and remote controlled drones. It was a massacre, and that is why Israel is frightened that it has been exposed.
They know, as we know, that those responsible will at some date face the Criminal Court in the Hague.
Democracy cannot exist with an acceptance of war crimes. Those who authorized the killings must face justice or the foundations of the entire state will be terminally weakened.
February 5, 2010 7:03 PM | Reply | Permalink
"They know, as we know, that no other army anywhere in the world deliberately targets children on the pretext that they were a threat to a heavily armed attacking force. "
Are you for real ??
They Americans use B52 to flatter villages (we all remember the Wedding incident) in Afghanistan (Last month 100 civilians killed by Americans/NATO forces in attack against a tanker - many kids & women were burned a live) ,
And this example is nothing compare to what happen in Iraq (100,000 + kids killed since then)
You are the last one to preach ?!
February 5, 2010 7:59 PM | Reply | Permalink
----Stop censor ppl - fascist!!! -------
February 5, 2010 7:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
No American or British or NATO force ever deliberately targets and kills children - in Iraq, Afghanistan or anywhere else.
The killing, in Gaza, of 320 children and 110 of their mothers was not collateral damage, it was intentional targeting, predominately from the air, upon an unarmed populace. An atrocity and a war crime.
Those responsible must face justice. The KM ministers at the time were: Ehud Barak, Ehud Olmert & Ziporah Livni.
February 6, 2010 4:04 AM | Reply | Permalink
My favorite hobby is to press every day on the red button and to kill more Palestinians kids - it's so much fun !
No wonder ,ppl think that most of the Americans are useless idiots : Drinking Cock , eating their EX-EX-EX- Large McDonald Junk food and Watching opera Show !
February 6, 2010 6:52 AM | Reply | Permalink
It was a great movie, MJ. And yes it was subversive. Forget the whiny liberals here.
February 6, 2010 5:04 AM | Reply | Permalink
I loved it. I envy the kids who watch it stoned. It got me high just on popcorn!
February 6, 2010 11:21 AM | Reply | Permalink
Keep posting c9dw2rm8, I'm doing a piece for Huffington on how Israelis despise Americans as "useless idiots : Drinking Cock , eating their EX-EX-EX- Large McDonald Junk food and Watching opera Show!"
You are valuable because few Israelis come right out and say that the people funding the IDF to the tune of $3 billion are year are just "dumb goys" but you say it.
And believe it.
And it's useful to know and publicize.
Note: this moron is not part of the paid hasbara team. If he was, he'd never be this honest about feelings toward Americans.
February 6, 2010 11:17 AM | Reply | Permalink
Also we don't "Drink Cock." The good news is that your terrible English demonstrates that you are not typical of a highly educated country. Your contempt for Americans may be but not your inability to communicate in English. No chance in hell that you have a teudat bagrut.
February 6, 2010 11:20 AM | Reply | Permalink
An overfed, over-pampered, over-protected "egalitarian" progressive looking down his nose at a less educated, less intellectually capable, working man? Now that's what I call an unintended, politically stupid, but thoroughly honest admission.
Why don't you write about that too? Why not include as well the virtually universal contempt for the epidemic of obesity sweeping America? And the hatred of Americans so common in the Muslim world, particularly in places we support almost as generously as we support Israel - such as Egypt.
There's nothing wrong with suggesting a cut-off of aid to Israel. God knows we could use the money domestically. But when I've suggested to supporters of such action that we also cut off aid to those Muslim countries who are Israel's enemies the universal response has been "Oh no. We SHOULDN'T do that!" followed by the same kinds of rationalizations which allows them to believe that Hamas doesn't want to kill large numbers of Jews and Palestinians aren't serious about exercising the right of return.
Write about that, moron-in-chief.
February 6, 2010 12:13 PM | Reply | Permalink
And just a hint Mr. Rosenberg. Can you not take on people who annoy you without being a two-bit fucking racist piece of dog meat? Or in your book is it OK to be racist when the target is somebody Jewish who obviously has little command of the English language. You really and truly are a hypocrite and why anyone could possibly take you seriously and not be appalled by your blatant racism is absolutely beyond me (and when I say anyone I mean Josh Marshall, his staff, any alleged progressive who thinks he or she is beyond racism, and also anyone such that I am referring specifically to at least one of you who corresponds to me privately by e-mail).
Bruce S. Levine
New York, New York
February 6, 2010 2:43 PM | Reply | Permalink
Sorry to disapoint you :
But i Swear :
I have 108+ (It's with bonuses) Bagrut average
I english i got 76 but i did 5 points english Bagrut (level of difficulty -the highest one) so you get 20 points bonus to the final score - this is the reason why my average exceeded the 100 (I did a lot of 5 points exams - Mathematics,Electronics ,English , TUSHBA , CS ,Physics )
February 6, 2010 3:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
Next time i Will not forget the E in the cocke!
Cock - it's something that you should get !
February 6, 2010 3:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
Coke is what you drink. Cock is what you eat - well, some do. Cocke? I don't know that word.
I really appreciate your efforts. There's no insult too low for Rosenberg. But, forgive me, I continue to be amused by your English.
February 6, 2010 3:28 PM | Reply | Permalink
Oops - Silly me
February 6, 2010 3:46 PM | Reply | Permalink
Ho No , This will be the first time that someone will wrote an article about me - My 15 minutes of fame -Woooooooooooooooo!
I prefer the NYT not the Hufington garbage - every leper (Like you) get a column their !
Finally :
Americans are funny , Nice and warm ppl some of them dumb like in every place on earth (And i See it as positive thing - they are simple , naive(In positive way) ,hard working ppl - Salt of earth Not the "Liberals Wannabe") but I still love and appreciate them
The Southerns ppl of America remind me the Negev (South region of Israel) ppl which live in the development towns - Most of them Mizrahi Jews,Ethiopians ,Russian Immigrants - They are the hard working ppl of Israel - they are simple , humble ,Send the Sons and daughters to the most elite units in the IDF while the The others try to arrange their sons the easiest jobs in the Army
In contrary to the FAT ' Spoiled ,Lazy ,rich Tel-Avivans and all the other so called "sophisticated Liberals" in center of Israel full of themselves!
February 6, 2010 3:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
More of what President Obama thinks of your rantings, Mr. Rosenberg:
President Barack Obama defended Israel yesterday at his Florida town hall gathering. When an audience member asked a targeted, anti-Israel question, Obama rose to Israel’s defense and publicly supported Israel by saying:
Israel is one of our strongest allies ... It is a vibrant democracy. It shares links with us in all sorts of ways. It is critical for us and I will never waver from ensuring Israel’s security and helping them secure themselves in what is a very hostile region… So I make no apologies for that.
February 6, 2010 11:53 AM | Reply | Permalink
Right, you know what he believes? Why? Because you attended the panderfest along with the other donors!
I know what he thinks.
I discussed Israel with him for about an hour.
And he agreed with everything I said but asked me to understand the constraints on him placed by a certain lobby. I do.
So be proud. You and your rich friends are literally holding America hostage.
I mean, you really don't believe that anyone with Obama's background could actually agree with the Israel firsters of AIPAC.
http://picasaweb.google.com/mjx847/BHO#
February 6, 2010 12:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
So Obama believes, as you do, that Israel should be forced to withdraw behind the 1949/1967 borders, and if they refuse aid should be cut-off. He believes, as you do, that no exceptions should be made, that Jerusalem should no longer be unified, and that the nearly 500,000 settlers should all be removed. And he probably believes, as both you and Avishai and most posters to this site believe, that Israel should ultimately lose its Jewish character and become a multi-national entity.
Nice to know that. Can you attest to the truth of what you said or are you distorting and blowing smoke, as you so often do?
You do realize that what you've said is political dynamite. That the consequences of what you've said - if generally known and believed - would be terrible for Jews everywhere? That you and your family would not be immune? Just think what would happen if the tea-partyers believed you (as I'm sure they're dying to do)?Meersheimer and Walt said the same thing. So has Finklestein. So have others. But they said it before Obama became President and Bush certainly did not agree with them.
Honestly, you're the biggest fool the Jewish people have produced in centuries.
February 6, 2010 1:14 PM | Reply | Permalink
No spider. We only talked about how much he wants to implement the two state solution. All the
rhetoric about israel being the most wonderful ally since the uk was unmentioned. I know what I believe he thinks but only by inference. No American with a brain believes the aipac line and obama is both the president of the united states and a very smart man. Hence he must agree with me
February 6, 2010 4:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
Geezus! No amount of soap could remove the slime which covers you. Doesn't your wife complain?
February 6, 2010 5:11 PM | Reply | Permalink
MJ:
I have been staying out of your little trashfests lately, but having just come back from shul with all of those Jewish people that you like to make fun of so you can ingratiate yourself with whoever, I was struck by this particular comment of yours to which I reply.
I mean you really want to stand by this quote?:
"I know what he [Obama] thinks.
I discussed Israel with him for about an hour.
And he agreed with everything I said but asked me to understand the constraints on him placed by a certain lobby."
In short, you assert here that in your one on one meeting with Obama (something I didn't know you did but it is very impressive and I'm surprised you haven't written more about your one hour meeting with the president), he told you that he was constrained by the Lobby, indicating that he really doesn't mean what he says publicly. OK, now that's news, it might be good news, but it's news and I'm sure you'd agree that that is an incredible statement by the president and again I'm surprised you haven't written about, assuming of course you met with the president for an hour and discussed Israel.
Second, and perhaps less importantly, this quote by you is just bizzare and explains why you're influuence is limited to people who like to hear this tripe. You write:
"So be proud. You and your rich friends are literally holding America hostage."
In short, you have just spread anti-semitic filth once again at the TPM Cafe--to wit that the Jewish Lobby is holding America and its president hostage--and I guess I'm glad that so few people take you seriously so that this kind of stuff is treated, and appropriately so, as the deranged rantings of a two-bit blogger.
By the way, I've just purchased Dan Fleshler's book on the Israel Lobby, and I know he's a friend and colleague of yours, and you are the author of the foreward in that book so I presume you endorse Dan's scholarship. It's not been delivered to me yet, but I'm looking forward to reading whether this kind of filth is the line you take in that book, or rather, as I predict, you write different things for different audiences in the finest tradition of the phoney baloney I believe you to be.
You really are a piece of work MJ Rosenberg, a joke, but really a piece of work.
Bruce S. Levine
New York, New York
February 6, 2010 1:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yes. Why the surprise. You think he doesn't understand the constraints place on him. He does. So did Clinton who also talked to me about it. Aipac is a constraint just like the settlers and Hamas. Sorry to get you so upset today. But you and other supporters of the status quo endanger israel, the Jewish people and of course the us so I won't shut up. You and your ilk are endanger us all with your sheer terror of....everything.
February 6, 2010 5:08 PM | Reply | Permalink
I have to add how infuriating it is when the terrified brucies pee in their pants because of what I write but are unconcerned about the antisemitism that is being produced by their put israel first attitudes. You think this can last forever? You think Americans will never figure out aipac and the lobbys role unless walt Mearsheimer tell them. The fact is that because I care about America and about israel and about the Jews that I must speak out. And yes I would not want my fellow Americans to think that Jews live here in fear and loathing of their neighbors or that they don't put america first. Because it's not true. The lobby doesn't. The types like you don't. But 90 percent of Jews, at least, love this country and are not afraid of their neighbors. But, since you are so afraid, tell aipac to stop loudly proclaiming it's power, tell them not to demand that America condemn goldstone, tell them to act as if they cared about America as something other than israel's arsenal. Because we aren't going to be silenced. Those days are over. I know that scares you but you shouldnt be scared of me bit rather of the effects that could be produced by the lobby you insist on defending.
e
February 6, 2010 5:29 PM | Reply | Permalink
I will only respond to the substance of what you write and leave the insults for those who enjoy that game.
First, I am an American and do resent anything to suggest that I would not put country first. It is not a fair response from someone like you or anyone else. It is cowardly and beneath this blog. I'll put my bona fides as a patriot against yours any day Mr. Rosenberg, but then again I have never stooped to the Glen Beck levels of challenging anyone's patriotism. . .ever. You really should be ashamed of yourself.
Second, as a matter of substance I see no daylight between what I believe and what, for example, has been supported by J Street and Americans for Peace Now. I have posted enough on here for that to come through to anyone who is genuinely interested in what I write.
Third, where I differ from someone like MJ Rosenberg is that I don't believe it is helpful and I believe it is often anti-semitic to assert that American Jews, some or all, hold American foreign policy hostage. At the threshold, that is a historical refrain that is too obvious to ignore. Second, and ultimately more importantly, I have consistently written that, to the extent that the American Jewish community is to stand behind more forceful and deliberate change in Washington, it will never occur if those who seek change follow the Rosenberg example of mocking the Jewish community, making fun of Jews who come from other places and/or who cannot write well, and failing to recognize that there is a widespread and legitimate anxiety in the American Jewish community, for historical reasons as well as for the reality of Israel's neighbors in the Middle East, that requires a sensitivity that Mr. Rosenberg has chosen, for whatever reason, to ignore and hatefully so.
I always feel sorry that I choose to take on MJ Rosenberg. He fights incredibly dirty, leading with stereotypes and ugly innuendo--indeed, just like a Glen Beck from the left albeit without a very large audience.
Bruce S. Levine
New York, New York
February 6, 2010 6:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
Bruce you are a scaredy cat. Pure and simple. You are scared to engage so you lurk and hope the fight will go away. Your Tom Joad avatar is the height of irony. If you were around in the 30's you would be organizing to defeat Upton Sinclair because you are innately on the side of the comfortable. That is my last comment to you for this round. Go back and lurk and worry. Note, ethnic solidarity and progressivism are inherently contradictory as was evidenced in ww1. For you, blood trumps everything. Get over it.
February 6, 2010 9:05 PM | Reply | Permalink
Oh bullshit with your ethnic crap. I spent this week meeting with and negotiating on behalf of a group of largely hispanic copper miners down in Tuscon, Arizona. That's what I do in real life you absolutely petty little son of a bitch. You really are an asshole; keep digging because you wouldn't know a working person if he smacked you upside the head with a pick ax. Make argument and stop assuming who the fuck I am because I don't agree with your absolutely nasty approach to all matters pertaining to Israel and the Middle East. I'm proud as shit about what I do and it has nothing at all whatsoever to do with the fact that I'm a Jew. You really are just such a mean and pathetic and sad creature. I honestly feel sorry for you.
February 7, 2010 12:09 AM | Reply | Permalink
Now go away, keep reading on the sly, and then, when you can't take it any more, come back to amuse us.
Bet you can't go a day without lurking around my posts. But Google me, they are everywhere. You need to quit your job defending the people and chase me all over the web. Full time job, babycakes.
Tom Joad says, "The Joads are in Gaza."
February 7, 2010 10:32 AM | Reply | Permalink
It's not you, you pompous, pathetic, preening schmuck. It's TPMCafe which keeps us coming. They have a reputation as one of the leading lights of the Left - the blogging equivalent (almost) of the New York Review of Books.
If you're dumped by them, you disappear from our radar. If they lose their reputation (which they will if they don't dump you) you're gone.
February 7, 2010 11:14 AM | Reply | Permalink
Spider, you are certainly correct that I came to read MJ Rosenberg because he appears at the TPM Cafe. I don't go to Huffington Post so I've never once read one of his posts there. For some reason I am on his mailing list so I get his Media Action posts on Fridays, but I didn't ask to be on that mailing list so I assume the Israel Policy Forum permitted MJ to have their mailing list as part of his separation arrangements with his former employer--I have to assume even MJ would not pilfer IPF's mailing list without their authorization [hee]!
As to the Cafe, Josh Marshall wouldn't stop publishing MJ Rosenberg even if he wanted to [and I have no reason to think that he would want to although Josh has written that, perhaps like me, he doesn't like to comment about the Middle East on his blog because of the dispositions of so many of his readers--Artappraiser has linked to one or two of Josh's pieces from the past to this effect and I wish I could link to that stuff because it is fascinating to read Josh's views about the discourse on his own blog]. But, again, even if Josh wanted to go with someone less divisive and more responsible than MJ Rosenberg, and I'm not saying he does at all, I submit he'd simply be accused of stifling debate. So, for better or for worse, MJ it is!
February 7, 2010 12:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
MJ is a scandal-monger, the Perez Hilton of politics. He doesn't care about reasoned argument (which flies right over his head) and he thrives on attention, any kind of attention, positive or negative.
At first, I took him seriously, then I used him as a corridor to his readers, finally as a punching bag to make my points. Now I think I'll just ignore him.
Politics is controversy, fighting, and there's no use denying that most human beings are attracted to it. We'll see whether there's enough on TPM for a better fight. If not, I'll move on - accepting (with some bitterness) that even supposedly intelligent people are not really moved by reason.
February 7, 2010 1:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
You are a very strange man. I have never denied reading your posts. Your premise is that reading and not commenting is "lurking" and by asserting what you do you insult a slew of people who in good faith choose not to express themselves in the comment sections of what you post.
In my case, I have tried not to engage you because I think you are irresponsible, sloppy, incorrigible, hateful, and mean. And sometimes those who read you regularly have caught you in the act of blatant misrepresentation and downright lies. But I do read your posts as I read many others. I will continue to read you when I wish, and I've never said anything to the contrary.
But just look at yourself in the mirror MJ Rosenberg. You are purportedly an important man with influence. Look what you have written to me. It is a weird combination of insult and slurs and stereotypes, and sometimes like last night you touch a nerve and I respond in a way that I am sorry about later on. But the real story is that for whatever reason a little old mook like me has struck a few nerves in you, as evidenced by what you spew in my direction, and frankly I couldn't give a hoot if that's the case. But I think that's the real story MJ; by your responses to me, by your need to respond with such venom, with such psychoanalysis from afar, you confirm that you are a pretty petty little man, who has been exposed as such to those who read you.
And I am not afraid to discuss anything about Israel or the Jewish People, or the catastrophes that is Gaza or the Occupation. But that is different from choosing not to take on someone like you day in and day out who is venemous, irresponsible, and ultimately counterproductive. You, more than anyone, seek to have the discussion on your own terms, and that is hardly the basis for real discussion. That is why things always get so ugly in your threads, and that is why so many of the former responsible commenters no longer comment and obviously appear not to think very highly of you. It should hardly be a badge of pride for you that so many people who used to comment here have voted on the quality of what you write with their silence, and the people I refer to include folks of all dispositions on the issues about which you, in full ethnocentric splendor, choose to write about incessantly.
Now in this particular case you have written that Jewish lobbyists hold American foreign policy hostage. That I submit is the stuff of core anti-semitism, and that I submit is what people of good conscience, who care about truth and real peace in the Middle East, will understand to be poison, and just awful stuff. And for me to take that statement on is not cowardice or courageous, but simply the responsible thing to do.
You leave people who care about both the Palestinean and Israeli people with a zero sum choice--either accept age-old canards about the Jewish people or be an impediment to peace. How sad, but ultimately how thankful I am that I am not the only one who believes that the choices you posit are nonsensical and the stuff of fringe.
Revel in your pettiness MJ; again, you could have been a contender.
February 7, 2010 11:51 AM | Reply | Permalink
Funny, I'm the blogger here and it makes sense that I like to respond and keep the pot boiling. It makes TPM more interesting and I get the facts out.
But you are an obsessive and, frankly, your obsession with me creeps me out. You aren't like Spider and the other know-nothings around here. You are more like a stalker. You always seem on the verge of tears.
And I shouldn't provoke you because I get you unhinged. So, taking the advice of someone smarter than me, I won't respond to you. I don't like being mean and this person said, "there is something wrong with Levine. Leave him alone."
So I will. Respond all you want. Let's get this sucker up to 150!
February 7, 2010 1:10 PM | Reply | Permalink
Boy that's really great english there, genius.
February 6, 2010 5:38 PM | Reply | Permalink
My English is pretty good considering
we have no power, no light, and it's only communicating with a seditionist like you that provides me any entertainment. Uh oh i'm losing this battery too and i won't be herexto educate you til we get our power
February 6, 2010 6:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
Keep posting c9dw2rm8, I'm doing a piece for Huffington on how Israelis despise Americans as "useless idiots : Drinking Cock , eating their EX-EX-EX- Large McDonald Junk food and Watching opera Show!"
You are valuable because few Israelis come right out and say that the people funding the IDF to the tune of $3 billion are year are just "dumb goys" but you say it.
And believe it.
And it's useful to know and publicize.
Note: this moron is not part of the paid hasbara team. If he was, he'd never be this honest about feelings toward Americans.
------------------------------------------------
Ho No , This will be the first time that someone will wrote an article about me - My 15 minutes of fame -Woooooooooooooooo!
I prefer the NYT not the Hufington garbage - every leper (Like you) get a column their !
Finally :
Americans are funny , Nice and warm ppl some of them dumb like in every place on earth (And i See it as positive thing - they are simple , naive(In positive way) ,hard working ppl - Salt of earth Not the "Liberals Wannabe") but I still love and appreciate them
The Southerns ppl of America remind me the Negev (South region of Israel) ppl which live in the development towns - Most of them Mizrahi Jews,Ethiopians ,Russian Immigrants - They are the hard working ppl of Israel - they are simple , humble ,Send the Sons and daughters to the most elite units in the IDF while the The others try to arrange their sons the easiest jobs in the Army
In contrary to the FAT ' Spoiled ,Lazy ,rich hedonistic Tel-Avivans and all the other so called "sophisticated Liberals" in center of Israel full of themselves!
February 6, 2010 3:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
Your hilarious confusion re Cocks vs Cokes suggests that you need to get out more. I would suggest that you expose yourself to Tel Aviv culture in order to familiarize yourself with common idiomatic English and advertising. A Coke is a Coke is a Coke.
You should also be advised that "coke" can be slang shorthand for cocaine. References to "doing some coke" and similiar phrases mean snorting the drug; activities rarely associated with either cokes or cocks.
(BTW, you have an excuse for mispellings as English isn't your first language. I see writings by American graduates of some of our best universities that are appalling; simple mistakes in spelling and grammar that would earn an "F" (for fail) from any English instructor at the junior high school level.)
Where did you serve? Were you ever in active combat? Given your timeline, the only example of recent combat that fits would have been in Lebanon. If so, too bad as that adventure was a real cockup for those who went in on the ground.
PS. Leper Alan Dershowitz has had columns in the Huffpo.
February 6, 2010 6:06 PM | Reply | Permalink
A man who confuses cocks and cokes should be careful about exposing himself anywhere.
(this has nothing to do with you, c9dw2rm8. I'm just continuing to have fun with language)
February 6, 2010 6:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
and, in some circumstances, acting cocky can really come back to bite one.
February 6, 2010 6:45 PM | Reply | Permalink
Dare I say it? Touche.
February 6, 2010 6:56 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'm not touching that one with a 10 inch pole.
February 6, 2010 7:37 PM | Reply | Permalink
Dreamer.
February 6, 2010 7:59 PM | Reply | Permalink
LOL
We'd better quit before we get ahead of ourselves.....
February 6, 2010 8:45 PM | Reply | Permalink
Don't worry. I have no ambition to be a leading man.
February 6, 2010 8:57 PM | Reply | Permalink
Nor do I have any taste for fluffy roles.
February 6, 2010 10:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
Where did you serve? Were you ever in active combat? Given your timeline, the only example of recent combat that fits would have been in Lebanon. If so, too bad as that adventure was a real cockup for those who went in on the ground.
I served in Armor brigade (Guest which one ?)
for 3 years in active duty , most of the time I was in Gaza (Inside the territory) before the pullout in 2005 - this was the most cursed place on earth i ever visited (not only in the recent years but for the last centuries !)- it's like god abandon the place ,
The sad part of the story is the Egyptians (their "Arab brothers") treat the Gazans like a garbage - most of the water , Electricity ,food come from the Israeli side !
In the Philadelphi corridor - The Egyptians soldiers from the Egyptian side snipe the Palestinians without any reason (Most of them were very poor unfortunate ppl )- The Egyptians despise them - the Israelis soldiers were the compassion side in all this mess there!
In my active duty i have never been Inside Lebanon , Just patrolling the Blue-line border , also i was part of the time in the Golan heights (one of my favorite places on earth - in my opinion more special than the jungles i visited !) and also I was the west bank (Hebron area)..
The training period was in the Negev in some a remote army base (Also very unique place)
During my reserve period i participate in the second Lebanon war - I was inside Lebanon for some days and this was the most action part of my all army service
February 6, 2010 6:44 PM | Reply | Permalink
How could I possibly guess which armor division you were in?
I followed the stupid war of '06 very closely and was shocked at the disorganization of the ground invasion. It was as if the commanders had no fucking idea what their men would be facing from the widely-acknowledged best guerilla army in the world in their own homeground of mountains and ravines in southern Lebanon.
Arrogance and contempt are no substitute for cold-eyed analysis when it comes to assessing the skill sets of the enemy. Did the idiots think they were dealing with Palestinians and/or Hamas instead of Hezbollah? How could they forget the recent lessons learned from the occupation(s) of Lebanon? Hubris overruled common sense.
I tell you, Ariel Sharon would not have started that idiotic "Operation Just Reward" and would have fired any of his Generals who would have been so foolish as to push for a ground invasion.
I haven't much regard for the repressive Egyptian puppet regime that or the other so-called "moderates" of Jordan and the Saudis.
Did you know that some Arabs refer to the Jordanian "leader' as "the Hashemite Dumpling" and/or "King Playstation"?
February 6, 2010 7:32 PM | Reply | Permalink
The Israeli generals adopt the American doctrine "Shock and horror " - Zero casualties - Using only the IAF and Sophisticated guided missiles
But in reality (Lebanon for Israel, Iraq for the USA) - it didn't work - there is no substitution to ground incursion with all the force without hesitating , without counting the Deaths soldiers every minutes - The Idiots in the IDF spokesperson let every journalist(even the Iranian TV) to accompany the soldiers and broadcast the footage in live - the Hezbollah saw on their own TVS the advance of the IDF ..
By the way - In the Village in lebamon where my platoon was fighting - Guess where was the Hezbollah ammunition bunker ???
In the local school ,
and what were the posters on the walls ? Nasrallha and Humeni & The Iranians mullahs gang - Something wrong with this ppl !
February 6, 2010 8:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
Of course they have posters of Nasrallah. The ppl there ARE Hezbolllah. Which is why nothing short of genocide will rid Lebanon of Hezbollah. Fer chrissakes, ppl allover the region have posters of the guy. What do you think? That they should have posters of the Saudi princes cavorting with blonde shiksa hookers on their walls? Get over it.
(I used to see Nasrallah on teevee once in awhile before it became illegal for Americans to be exposed to Al Manar. Of course, I didn't understand a word he said or even know who he was back then...but his "charisma", for lack of a better word, was obvious and striking. The guy exudes power and oddly, a sense of humility at the same time)
Sheesh...don't you know that Hezbollah had Hebrew fluent operatives listening in on IDF communications? No one needed teevee to tell those people what the IDF movements were; they were all watching and communicating the information as needed.
(Remember that picture of Amir Peretz looking through capped binoculars? Hezb blew it up to billboard size and posted it near the Blue Line looking south...I always suspected that a few reservists on patrol might have secretly snickered at the chutzpah)
Your idiots are those in the command structure that ordered the politicians to approve the ground invasion, not the IDF spokesppl. Besides, Israeli media censorship back then was a mere shadow of what it is today.
I'll get all upset about weapons caches in schools when you get all verklempt over IDF arms depots next to civilian domiciles. Not to mention the fact that the ppl of Sderot and other Gaza vicinity towns were lied to about being protected by the "Iron Dome" batteries they were promised.
BTW, it's "Shock and Awe" Not "Shock and Horror" and our thousands of dead prove how long that effect lasted.
February 6, 2010 10:04 PM | Reply | Permalink
Where are exactly the I.D.F depots ?
I Only know that there is a big Depots with ammunition worth billions of $ for the Americans forces in the middle-east and in the Mediterranean - probably no other country accept that - and Israel was the only one!
February 7, 2010 12:15 AM | Reply | Permalink
I have no idea where they are nor do I have need to know. Not my country. Such info is, and damn well should be, protected.
Yup, we've got stuff stashed allover the damn place. That's how we roll.
If you're working for an American firm, why aren't you speaking AMERICAN there? Practice practice practice.......
You could confuse people by asking if they want a coke in English. However, keeping the earlier confusion(s) in mind, proper pronunciation is critical.
February 7, 2010 10:04 PM | Reply | Permalink
You should also be advised that "coke" can be slang shorthand for cocaine. References to "doing some coke" and similiar phrases mean snorting the drug; activities rarely associated with either cokes or cocks.
It was a spelling mistake -get over it , Do you really think that i live in a bubble and don't know what is it "doing some coke" ?
-------------------------------------------------
I would suggest that you expose yourself to Tel Aviv culture
I'm more complex that you think ,
I work there(TA) in a student job in An American firm - Israel is small , it's only one hour train from the south !
February 6, 2010 7:03 PM | Reply | Permalink
So? Aren't there cokes for sale there? Working in TA means nothing unless you actually get out and groove on the culture.
February 6, 2010 8:10 PM | Reply | Permalink
In Hebrew we call it :coca cola or just cola NOT coke !
February 6, 2010 8:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
Brucie Levine obviously tries to conflate ordinary Jews with pro-Israeli bigots. That is crap.
The average Jewish man or woman anywhere in the diaspora, whilst being generally supportive of a Jewish homeland i.e. Israel, is sickened by those such as you, who claim to be an authority on human rights and military strategy and the art of living, and how to attend shul to claim some sort of divine right and/or forgiveness.
You're a fraud, Brucie. As are all those who support the killing of innocents either by a simple bullet through the head or by missiles fired from an unmanned drone and targeted by some efficient IDF guy sitting in an office in some Israeli town.
Do you ever wonder how many kids and their mothers that guy has to liquidate before taking a coffee break? Six maybe, seven, two dozen?
February 6, 2010 4:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
You're a fraud, Brucie. As are all those who support the killing of innocents either by a simple bullet through the head or by missiles fired from an unmanned drone and targeted by some efficient IDF guy sitting in an office in some Israeli town.
During my 3 + years of army (in combat unit )- I never saw a soldier shout on kid or a woman
Actually the Jihdists are they guys who target kids buses and Night-clubs and snipe Jewish babies in Hebron.
Do you ever wonder how many kids and their mothers that guy has to liquidate before taking a coffee break? Six maybe, seven, two dozen?
Stop being melodramatic - In reality the soldiers doing a very gray job and most of time risk themselves because they are trying to avoid Innocents
February 6, 2010 4:34 PM | Reply | Permalink
How many years did you spend in the army (combat unit) serving your country? What, if anything, have you done to serve your country...other than complain?
February 6, 2010 4:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
Six years - two on active (combat) service and four in a reserve unit. Why? And you?
February 6, 2010 5:04 PM | Reply | Permalink
If you calculate the Reserve period - I serve Until now almost 9 years !
February 6, 2010 5:12 PM | Reply | Permalink
Great job
February 6, 2010 5:32 PM | Reply | Permalink
Mazeltov! That must entitle you to be a complete putz. My advice: stick to soldiering and leave comment to others.
February 6, 2010 5:32 PM | Reply | Permalink
without me this comments section will be monochromatic - the same "Occupation,Poor defenseless Palestinians BS" over and over again !
February 6, 2010 6:04 PM | Reply | Permalink
Why?
Because I find you to be unrealistically critical of an inherently brutal enterprise. And completely biased in your criticism.
It should be obvious, from your experience, that both sides are guilty of cruelty and brutality, of misusing civilians if strategic or tactical advantage is to be gained, or sometimes because they're just furious. No war has ever been fought differently.
Since when would soldiers under fire be expected to love the opposition? I never met any, from my relatives who fought in WWII to the sons of friends who are currently in Iraq and Afghanistan. They often don't like their officers or the politicians who direct them and, in hindsight, they can be critical of their country's policies, but no one - unless he wants to be killed - is going to love those trying to kill him.
I came of age in the mid '50s, when the country didn't need soldiers, and was rejected as 4-F, which wouldn't have happened a decade later when the armed forces were desperate for bodies. If I'd known then what I know now I would have made a greater effort to join.
February 6, 2010 5:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
We have empathy! I agree with you. But 320 children? And then to claim they were a threat! That was gratuitous killing, and that is murder. And I am ashamed to be associated by virtue of my race/ religion with such brutality. And the IDF are proud of their behaviour! How can you defend them? How can you defend taking the life of non-combatants and then lie to defend the crime?
How can you defend the using of chemical weapons? How can you defend the arrogance and stupidity of those who kill for enjoyment?
I never experienced anything to compare with that in all my years as a professional soldier. We all have children and to murder them is nothing less than a crime against humanity.
Those responsible must, and will, face trial - for democracy cannot survive alongside state-sponsored murder.
February 6, 2010 6:49 PM | Reply | Permalink
It's true that all armies are not equally brutal, and that all campaigns by the same army are not equally brutal.
It's also true that some armies are much stronger than their opponents and can afford to be more generous. The Germans, when first attacking the Poles and Russians, probably would have benefitted from showing generosity. But as WWII wore on nobody could afford to be generous...and nobody was.
It's also true that everybody lies when they're fighting a war, if it's advantageous to do so.
For all the above reasons, I'm very cautious about judging the behavior of armies if I don't have first-hand experience. How, for example, can you so easily discount what c9dw2rm8 is saying when it IS first-hand experience?
The way I see it, the moralities of the war are not clear. Both sides have a good case for ownership of the land. Neither side can, or is willing to, recognize the legitimacy of the opposition's claim. And the war has been going on for so long, and has generated so much hatred and bitterness, that compromise is not possible. It's a war to the death.
I side with the Jews because I am one, and because Jews have no other country, no other lands which they can claim as their own. I can see why others would side with the Palestinians for similar reasons.
But I can never side with cowardly, traitorous, swine like Rosenberg, or most of the idiots who post here.
February 6, 2010 7:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
As I said before, I understand your point of view - much of which makes sense. What is missing is your understanding of killing and of death. The actuality of taking life is not be dismissed so easily as it is in these columns.
These killings cannot be so easily excused by the fact of war and collateral damage. I need to reiterate that no army deliberately kills children. Not in Afghanistan, not in Iraq not in Kosovo and not even in WW2. Not deliberate targeting of children in order to terrorize the population. Nagasaki and Hiroshima suffered thousands of deaths including children, but children were not the target.
You know as I know that these children in Gaza were not a threat to the IDF. They were killed because the IDF had been indoctrinated to believe that children in Gaza, Arab children, were worthless, were of no value - unlike Israeli children. That brain washing resulted in a terrible massacre and unless you have been intimate with such brutality you can never understand - nor would you defend it on political or other grounds.
Having said that: thanks for your thoughts. They are valuable.
February 6, 2010 8:34 PM | Reply | Permalink
Be aware that in your post you are singling out the IDF as unique. The only army ever to deliberately target children.
February 6, 2010 8:54 PM | Reply | Permalink
You know as I know that these children in Gaza were not a threat to the IDF. They were killed because the IDF had been indoctrinated to believe that children in Gaza, Arab children, were worthless,
Are you aware to the insanity in your words ?!
Do you really think that the I.D.F see the Gaza children as "treat" and target them ??? WTF ???
Trying to portray the IDF as demons is exactly what the Nazis do to the Jews - You are fucking low-life antisemitic bastard !
What is you Background ? Do you have Arab roots,
Some JAP didn't give you when you were young ?
February 6, 2010 9:14 PM | Reply | Permalink
PS I omitted to say that I cannot agree with your assessment of MJR. Please appreciate that he has many, many years of experience in the mindset of AIPAC, its supporters and its overt and covert operations. He knows political truths that we have yet to learn.
February 6, 2010 8:38 PM | Reply | Permalink
Lenny Ben David, a long time Rosenberg co-worker at AIPAC, sides with me.
It's been a pleasure.
February 6, 2010 9:01 PM | Reply | Permalink
How can you defend the using of chemical weapons?...
I never experienced anything to compare with that in all my years as a professional soldier.
If you are so "professional soldier" you will know that white phosphorous is not A chemical weapon ! it's for a smoke screen for the infantry , and every regular army use it (The US/NATO use it in Iraq and Afghanistan)
But 320 children? And then to claim they were a threat!
First of all the number you mentioned are the "Palestinian estimation" and every reasonable man will not take them seriously - they always exaggerate!
In these 320 kids - you have probably the natural deaths during the 3 weeks (GAZA have 1.5 M ppl) -so subtract 100
now you have 220 , subtract the 15,16,17,18 years old boys which were use as soldiers and carry weapons or do a cover up for the militants - so now subtract more 120 -
you get 100
Take this 100 and subtract the kids which use as human shields by their coward parents (Said Siam for example) and the real number is probably between 50-100 - all of them died from collateral damage - this is sad but this is the nature of war
PPl got killed!
February 6, 2010 7:26 PM | Reply | Permalink
Testimony General Bruno Von Hauptmann, Nuremberg, 1946:
I never experienced anything to compare with that in all my years as a professional soldier.
If you are so "professional soldier" you will know that white phosphorous is not A chemical weapon ! it's for a smoke screen for the infantry , and every regular army use it
But 320 children?
In these 320 kids - you have probably the natural deaths during the 3 weeks (GAZA have 1.5 M ppl) -so subtract 100
now you have 220 , subtract the 15,16,17,18 years old boys which were use as soldiers and carry weapons or do a cover up for the militants - so now subtract more 120 -
you get 100
Take this 100 and subtract the kids which use as human shields by their coward parents (Said Siam for example) and the real number is probably between 50-100 - all of them died from collateral damage - this is sad but this is the nature of war
PPl got killed!
February 6, 2010 10:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
In Nuremberg the collaborators (Including KAPOS) of the nazis - the enemy of the Jews get the same bullet by the firing squad
February 7, 2010 12:09 AM | Reply | Permalink
'Post' stops Chazan column after threat
BY JERUSALEM POST STAFF
07/02/2010 01:06
NIF and its president Chazan threatened legal action over ad in paper.
Talkbacks (13)
The Jerusalem Post has canceled Naomi Chazan’s biweekly column, after she and the New Israel Fund of which she is president threatened legal action against the paper over a recent advertisement.
The decision was taken by Jerusalem Post management after a legal threat was received at the paper from the NIF and Chazan’s lawyers.
Along with other publications, the Post last Sunday carried an advertisement criticizing Chazan and the New Israel Fund in the context of the Goldstone Report on Operation Cast Lead.
In Friday’s paper, the Post carried an advertisement defending the NIF and Chazan against their critics.
The chutzpah of the radical left!
http://www.jpost.com/Israel/Article.aspx?id=167984
February 7, 2010 12:39 AM | Reply | Permalink
POINT OF PERSONAL PRIVILEGE:
I want to address the craziness that ensues whenever I post on Israel.
I think the source of it is that the hasbaraniks don't really deliver information. Their whole stance is to call people Israel-haters or to essentially say that certain things should not be said.
The main thing that should not be said is what is called the Walt-Mearsheimer thesis i.e, that America's Middle East policy is, to a large degree, dictated by AIPAC and the organizations that take their cues from AIPAC.
And here is where I drive these people nuts. I worked at AIPAC on salary for 4 years and for one year as a volunteer. And, unlike the people who were fired from AIPAC (Steve Rosen,Lenny Ben David, and many others) I did not accept a settlement with a clause forbidding me to speak about the organization.
I left on good terms. No severance and no pledge of silence.
So I am pretty much the only ex-employee who can say what I want to about them. And I do.
It also enrages the status quo crowd that I am pro-Israel and have been my whole life. I abandoned the AIPAC point of view, first, because I believe that the policies pushed by AIPAC and the status quo crowd will result in Israel's demise.
Later, as I came to know so many Palestinians and came to understand their narrative, my views were informed not just by my concern for Israel but for Palestine too.
And then there were all my years on Capitol Hill. AIPAC likes to say that Congressmen and Senators agree with them. But I can point out, from experience, that few legislators agree with them but almost all are intimidated by them.
These factor -- add to it my sheer fury at what has been done to the Palestinians in recent years -- gives me the unique ability to drive the Israel firsters crazy.
But that is not why I write. I write because America's current policies are terrible for America, for Israel and, it goes without saying, for the Palestinians.
And, unlike so many people who feel the way I do but cannot say it, I can.
Frankly, I wish I didn't attract the nuts but I do. Like honey attracts flies.
On the other hand, so many good people tell me they appreciate what I write that it is all worthwhile.
It's changing out there. We can make it change.
God bless the internet!
"I once was lost but now I'm found, was blind but now I see."
February 7, 2010 1:58 PM | Reply | Permalink
I really don't care about AIPAC!
The future of the so called Arab tribes (AKA Palestinians ) will be in JORDAN - you can publish posts Evey day here about the situation but in reality things are opposite!
In the Ground from where I see it and many others - 2 states solution is impossible , 1 state will not be - Because there will be a big wars like in 1948,1967 - and we all know what happen in those times !
the only rational solution will be that the Jordanians take responsibility for their ppl (85% of Jordanians are the so called Palestinians)
You can pass reports in the UN , write columns in NYT , UN resolution , call for boycott (which never work and actually do the opposite )
In the end of the day -In the middle east there is a different rules!!
February 7, 2010 4:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
Like the comment above from c9, all hasbarachiks tend to repeat the modern Zionist mantra, ad infinitum: 'all the land belongs to us, it was given to us by God'; there are no such people as -Palestinians and no land of Palestine; We have the most moral army in the world; we are the only democracy in the |Middle East; you are an anti-Semite!; we don't need you or America; we have the most Nobel prize winners in the world; if it wasn't for us you would have no mobile phones; or medical equipment, or unmanned drones, or Uzi machine guns .... and so it continues, day after day, month after month. An image of puffed-up arrogance and pride that tells the world: 'We are the greatest - without us, you are nothing!" A position hardly calculated to make friends and influence people.
I say the 'modern Zionist mantra' because the Zionism in which I was brought up to subscribe to was as different as chalk is from cheese.
Israel, as personified in the post above, wishes to dictate to all the world and insists that it doesn't care what anyone thinks or what anyone does.
Of course, that is patent nonsense. Without bilateral trade with the EU, Israel would collapse in a matter of months. And without US military and civil aid, she would struggle to survive in world markets.
Israel is simply a small independent, nation state of no particular strategic importance, that should know its place in the world, but refuses to do so. She has a population of just in excess of 6.5 million out of a global population of 6.5 billion - a fractional demographic that should correctly ensure that her profile is commensurate with it.
Instead, the world has to listen to the opinions of Israeli politicians on every newscast, every hour of every day. Why?
I do not know the answer, but perhaps someone can enlighten me ...
February 7, 2010 5:57 PM | Reply | Permalink
First : I'm never use religious BS in my arguments : I have never said "god gave us" - it's a sallow argument !
------------------------------------------
Second :I don't like when jews/israelis use arguments like :We are the best and better etc...
Nobody is above anyone else -
By the way compare to western armies - IDF is probably the most moral one (sorry for repeating "Zionist Mantra") -
This is fact , Not propaganda or mantra - If you compare the actions of the US/NATO armies in Iraq or Afghanistan to the IDF - the IDF is the only one who use the most restricted ways to avoid civilians casualties
-------------------------------------------------
Third :About the Israeli trade - you right - Israel is very small and only have 7M ppl
But you should remember 1 thing :
Israeli companies open their main Headquarters in the US - Today in the NYSE the 3th largest country with listed companies is ISRAEL (AFTER THE USA,CANADA) -
I don't think that the Wall-street guys will want something like you mentioned specially in this difficult times!
Europe cannot boycott American (Israeli in the origin) companies ,
Israeli companies employ lots of ppl specially in east Europe and have branches across Europe
Evey Israeli company trying to be always international one - to avoid all the arabs pressures and boycott (Lessons learned from the 50's , 60's ,70's ,80's)
Israel have the Biggest RD centers in the world after the USA -All the INDIA/BANGLOR centers are not profitable and productive like the Israeli ones
American companies have 100000+ (Intel,IBM,MICROSOFT..) workers in Israel...
I will give you 2 anecdotes to illustrate my points :
1. Why do you think Israel become the 4 largest exporter of weapons to the world (Israel sell to the USA BILLIONS OD $ every year ) ???
Because of the 60's arms embargo of France 70's 80's arms embargo of the USA - The Jews /Israelis when you push them to the corner see it as challenge and not problem !
2. In the 80's the Regan Administration refuse to sell to Israel new fighter plane - the Israeli IAI (Israel Aerospace Ind) began to developed the LAVI project (with help from the USA) - In 198o's when the first prototype has revealed - the American Lockheed-Martin and other Americans companies discover that the Israelis build a better fighter than their new F16 - The Americans gone crazy fearing a loss of contracts to IAI - so what they do ?
Give 50 F16 to Israel for free and another 100+ planes in discounts , than the push the congress to stop funding "LAVI" - so the congress give since than money and aviation tools just to avoid situations like this !
-------------------------------------------------
LAST
Israel is not getting any civilian aid from the USA (The so called grantees and loans (which Israel pay until the last shekel to the Americans ))
Israelis will gladly want to stop getting money from US taxpayers (The Americans use this money to blackmail Israel ) BUT only
WHEN the USA will STOP GIVING BILLIONS OF $ to ISRAELI ENEMIES - The Arab states
---------------------------------------------
Instead, the world has to listen to the opinions of Israeli politicians on every newscast, every hour of every day. Why?
I do not know the answer, but perhaps someone can enlighten me ...
I never get it also !
Hear a story : when i was in CHINA during vacation : I go out from the Beijing train station and then you see thousand of ppl in the streets (Something incredible) but no one know English to direct me to some hostel - I met some old guy he knew a little English and in the beginning he was reluctant to help me - when he ask from where I am - everything change - he took me hand by hand , call a taxi , pay for me and take me to the hostel (45 minutes drive) and give me his visiting card , When i ask him what you know about Israel ?: he told me that his parents told him when he was young that the Jews are smart and Israel build a milk / Agriculture farms in CHINA during the 60's,70's ,80's when china was very poor country
This situation happen in many places to me in south-east Asia countries and Latin-America (It's happen also in Africa to my friends) -even in the most remote areas !
The opposite also happen to me in CHANG -MAI /Thailand - I spoke with NZ guy , in the beginning he was nice BUT when i told him I'm from Israel , everything change (He wasn't arab or Muslim just simple christian guy ) - than he start to say the regular mantras that can be found in this forum and stop being friendly
-----------------------------------------------
Why this happen ?
I do not know the answer, but perhaps someone can enlighten me ...
February 7, 2010 8:30 PM | Reply | Permalink
An idiot says: "1. Why do you think Israel become the 4 largest exporter of weapons to the world (Israel sell to the USA BILLIONS OD $ every year ) ???"
Answer: Because each and every year the USA gives Israel $3billion in military aid money and then allows Israel (and only Israel) to immediately skim off 20% of that money to spend on its own defense industries.
So Israel is the #4 player in global weapons sales because the #1 player underwrites Israel's defense industries year after year i.e. the USA props up a competitor who would otherwise be quite uncompetitive.
An idiot also says: "2. In the 80's the Regan Administration refuse to sell to Israel new fighter plane - the Israeli IAI (Israel Aerospace Ind) began to developed the LAVI project (with help from the USA) - In 198o's when the first prototype has revealed - the American Lockheed-Martin and other Americans companies discover that the Israelis build a better fighter than their new F16 - The Americans gone crazy fearing a loss of contracts to IAI - so what they do ?
Give 50 F16 to Israel for free and another 100+ planes in discounts , than the push the congress to stop funding "LAVI" - so the congress give since than money and aviation tools just to avoid situations like this !"
!!!!!!
The Americans were going "crazy" because THEIR money was being spent by Israel to create a competitor to an American aerospace industry.
No other country was being granted such a ludicrously generous competitive advantage by Uncle Sam, and for A Very Good Reason i.e. it is a f**king stupid thing for the USA to do.
And once it was finally drummed into the collective brain of Congress that this was A F**king Stupid Thing For Uncle Sam To Be Doing then the Congress cut off that money.
A which point the "Lavi" was shown to be the dead-duck that it always was.
Oh, yeah, and you don't seem to realize the implication of that "(with help from the USA)" caveat of yours i.e. the LAVI was chock-a-block full of USA technology, which means the USA could - and would - have prevented Israel from selling any of them to overseas customers.
You would have ended up making them ENTIRELY for your own domestic market, at some utterly outlandish per-unit cost.
Stupid indeed when you are spending your own money, but criminally negligent if the Congress had allowed Israel to use Uncle Sam's own greenbacks to fund it.
February 8, 2010 3:12 AM | Reply | Permalink
If it's make you feel good to say that everything in Israel is just because UNCLE SAM - It's OK
I and my all friends buy a new BMW this just because the generous uncle sam give us the 3 B$ of US taxpayers - after saying that are you relaxed ?
Everything in Israel is just because the 3 B$ !!
NOW you feel GOOD?
February 8, 2010 4:07 AM | Reply | Permalink
An idiot says: "If it's make you feel good to say that everything in Israel is just because UNCLE SAM - It's OK"
Errr, c9dw2rm8, this may come as a shock but **I** didn't make that claim.
You did, because you wanted to argue to your own straw man.
What **I** said was that your crowing about the success of Israel's defence industries was misplaced, because if the USA ever withdrew its "skim 20% off the top" concession then that Israeli defence industry would collapse.
I'm slightly (but only slightly) curious: why do you pretend that you were addressing me, when all you are doing is conducting a dialog inside your head?
February 8, 2010 7:34 PM | Reply | Permalink
Oh, yeah, and one more thing: if you are still pining for the Lavi then you are in luck because you can still buy one, and very cheaply too.
http://atimes.com/atimes/China/DL04Ad01.html
http://www.janes.com/news/defence/jdw/jdw080519_2_n.shtml
Mind you, you'll have to rub off that red star on the fuselage before you can paint on a spiffy new Star of David.
February 8, 2010 3:17 AM | Reply | Permalink
OLD NEWS!!
February 8, 2010 4:00 AM | Reply | Permalink
An idiot says: "OLD NEWS!!"
He says that because I was responding to a statement of HIS that began with: "In the 80's the Regan Administration"....
So what the Reagan Administration did in the 1980's is (according to c9dw2rm8) topical news that is well worthy of him bringing to our attention.
But what Israel and China got up to **after** the Reagan Administration pulled the plug on Israel's Might Aerospace Industry is, apparently, "OLD NEWS!!"
Everyone just mosey on by, nothing to see here, folks.....
How odd.
February 8, 2010 7:40 PM | Reply | Permalink
Give us a break ,
this 20 % of 3 B$ (Most of times it was about 2 b$)- it's about 600m$ -with 600M$ you can't do nothing !
February 9, 2010 3:29 AM | Reply | Permalink
A fool says: "Give us a break ,"
Why, exactly?
A fool says: "this 20 % of 3 B$ (Most of times it was about 2 b$)- it's about 600m$ -with 600M$ you can't do nothing !"
Then remove that $600million concession and see what happens to Israel's indigenous arms industry.
That's a $600million gift that the Israeli govt gets EACH AND EVERY YEAR to pump into that home-grown arms industry, and removing it will most definitely take the legs out from under that industry.
February 9, 2010 9:28 PM | Reply | Permalink
I said it's an old news ?
Because i read it in the past
and no one can deny/approve this report
I don't see any problem to Israeli company to sell stuff to the China (Spare me the "American technology BS")
February 9, 2010 3:32 AM | Reply | Permalink
A dimwit says: "I said it's an old news ?"
No need for the question mark: you most definitely said "OLD NEWS!!"
That dimwit says: "Because i read it in the past
and no one can deny/approve this report"
And yet you will not run that same ruler over your own (unsubstantiated) claim that Reagan pulled the plug on the Lavi BECAUSE he feared it would steal overseas sales from the F-16 and not BECAUSE its development had become a misuse of USA military aid money to Israel.
How Very Odd.
May I suggest that you take in your left hand a photo of the Lavi, and you take in your right hand a photo of the J-10, and that you then slooowly bring those two hands closer together.
Then you should ask yourself: can I see a family resemblence here?
The dimwit continues: "I don't see any problem to Israeli company to sell stuff to the China (Spare me the "American technology BS") "
Why should I spare you the truth, c9dw2rm8, when YOU YOURSELF accepted that the Lavi program proceded "(with help from the USA)"?
You clearly have no idea how much of the technology that was used to build the Lavi prototype was developed *by* USA aeronautical firms.
I suggest you do yourself a favour and read up some more on this FROM THE AMERICANS:
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/row/3fal90.htm
February 9, 2010 9:41 PM | Reply | Permalink
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