The Stimulus was not a Tiny Win
"Your list is a bunch of tiny victories."
"what's lacking is a broad-based benefit for the middle class."
Comments on my last post do seem to show that the old adage that a "billion dollars here and a billion dollars there, and pretty soon you're talking about real money" just doesn't hold for folks these days. But a $787 billion stimulus that funded schools for working and middle class parents, gave tax rebates to working and middle class parents, that is providing unemployment insurance relief for millions of middle class families facing job loss-- all of these are incredible gains.
Put this in perspective, Clinton couldn't get a $16 billion jobs bill passed over a filibuster in 1993. And remember, the stimulus money is not being handed out over decades but isn't being distributed over just a couple of years; literally, I don't think anyone can point to a larger domestic spending increase by the federal government on a per-year basis in American history.
An incredible win, just incredible:
http://phoenix.bizjournals.com/phoenix/stories/2009/08/17/daily4.html
Poll: Stimulus not helping Americans personally
More than three-quarters of Americans say the economic stimulus is not helping their financial situation and another 57 percent say it is not helping the overall economy, according to a new poll.
Sixty-eight percent of those questioned in a survey of 1,010 adults by the Gallup Inc. for the USA Today newspaper said the Obama administration’s stimulus has not impacted their personal finances, while 13 percent said the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act has hurt. Eighteen percent said federal economic efforts have made things better.
In the same poll, 57 percent said the ARRA and other stimulus programs have either not impacted or made the economy worse while 41 percent said the stimulus had helped.
Fifty-four percent of those surveyed by Gallup said the U.S. economy will still be in a recession a year from now. Thirty percent said it will be out of a recession.
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Can the Democrats afford any more wins like this?
November 30, 2009 1:43 PM | Reply | Permalink
And this poll reflects what the media and both the rightwing and, as comments here reflect, much of the left has been saying. And they're wrong.
Most economists recognize the big picture help the stimulus gave to the economy. The hard reality is that there is no force on earth that can completely prevent recessions, but the stimulus prevented full-scale meltdown and eased the trauma on many families.
If any parents have kids in that poll, they are missing the fact that their kids classes would be more crowed without the stimulus, that fewer of their kids would be going to university, and those facing layoffs would be suffering more with less unemployment insurance and less help like Food Stamps.
November 30, 2009 3:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
I think it's fair to say that a lot of us appreciate the good parts of the stimulus just as you do but that we see quite clearly what and who got left behind.
November 30, 2009 3:59 PM | Reply | Permalink
And this poll reflects what the media and both the rightwing and, as comments here reflect, much of the left has been saying. And they're wrong.
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Well, if they're wrong and they vote Dems out of office (which they will) does that make you feel virtuous?
The items you mention aren't even really "stimulus" spending, it's just back-filling government services.
Point is, Stimulus II (everyone forgets Stimulus I came out in spring 2008) was back-end loaded with most of the spending in 2010 and 2011. I assumed that was purposefully done to try to affect the 2010 election. By that time though, people will be so embittered their minds will already be made up on the subject.
Also, all this press about the bogus "jobs created or saved" numbers in bogus congressional districts makes it even worse. This is starting to make Stimulus II look like TARP in the popular mind - a pay-off to Democratic constituents with the average taxpayer footing the bill and getting nothing.
Meanwhile, the President and Congress are totally preoccupied with passing a HCR bill that nobody wants:
http://www.pollster.com/polls/us/healthplan.php
Oppose: 49.8%
Favor: 39.2%
How do you spell "out of touch"?
November 30, 2009 4:27 PM | Reply | Permalink
Nathan, the poll is reflecting more than just right wing criticisms. In fact, I think such polls hide the real depth of disillusionment among citizens because so many continue to want to give him a chance to prove he's on our side even though they know it probably isn't the case.
I think Obama hung himself when he gave away the farm, sided with Wall Street and gave them a blank check. The money those crooked bankers have stolen from the people could have been used to help people get back to work. Anything would have been more productive than their theft of that money to engage in even more speculation which is precisely what they've done because of the incompetent handling of the situation by Tim the asswiper Secretary of the Treasury. Obama has done nothing but add fuel to the fire with Geithner/Summers every craven move to please their masters at Goldman Sachs, et al. Nothing could have demonstrated his lack of empathy for or understanding of the average American more than his abject caving in to Wall Street's every demand while 10,000 homes were going into foreclosure daily---a rate that has not abated one little bit since he took office. The groveling and sucking up to industry on the healthcare bills was like the final masterstroke in alienating Democrats and average Americans who aren't necessarily Democratic voters. In a nutshell, it is clear whose side Obama is on and it isn't the little guy. Not by a longshot.
November 30, 2009 4:28 PM | Reply | Permalink
"I think Obama hung himself when he gave away the farm, sided with Wall Street and gave them a blank check."
When did he do this, oleeb? TARP was passed in October of 2008.
November 30, 2009 10:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
First of all he voted for that crap legislation creating TARP. Second, he had half or more completely under his administration's control when he took office. You cannot dodge his reponsibility for the complete capitulation to the crooked capitalists of Wall Street.
December 1, 2009 2:09 AM | Reply | Permalink
He still didn't formulate the plan, and it was presented as the only option to prevent a complete meltdown of the economy. TARP apparently did its job in that regard, and much of the money is getting paid back and being channeled to programs like mortgage modification that should be more to your liking.
Obama was not responsible for the casino economy that crashed two months before he was elected, and all indications are that TARP and Obama's subsequent actions prevented a much more serious downturn. It's easy to criticize, but I haven't seen many viable alternatives to the actions that were taken, from you or anybody else.
December 1, 2009 11:53 AM | Reply | Permalink
If Obama was on videotape committing a crime you would excuse it.
He has absolutely bent over backwards for Wall Street, has completely mishandled the TARP money and has put two completely beholden Wall Street lackies in charge of treasury and the economy. He has done and will do absolutely nothing to re-regulate these thieves to prevent yet another collapse, the trade in toxic derivatives continues unabated just as it did prior to the collapse, he refuses to do anything that will provide meaningful help to the millions losing their homes because of his refusal to support cram downs and mandatory mortgage adjustments or requiring banks to make loans instead of investing all the TARP money in risky investments and the acquisition of more banks.
December 1, 2009 12:14 PM | Reply | Permalink
"If Obama was on videotape committing a crime you would excuse it."
Pretty rich coming from a guy who thinks that Obama can dictate economic and legislative action from his desk in the Oval Office, and it will magically happen. My objection to almost everything you write is that you place exclusive blame on Obama for everything wrong with our country right now, and conveniently ignore that less than a year ago, probably the worst president in American history was still running the country into ground. You also fail to place any blame whatsoever on (I'm being charitable here) center-right Democrats in Congress, and a subtle but pervasive media narrative that supports wars and tax cuts, but views any domestic spending as irresponsible "budget-busting."
A lot more has to change than electing a president before we see the type of political change that most of us here desire to see. The constant drumbeat of context-free, illogical, and often factually challenged placing of blame for our political problems exclusively on Obama's shoulders needs to be pushed back against, so here I am.
December 1, 2009 1:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
No. You are wrong once again. Your blind loyalty blinds you to the truth.
I blame Obama only for what Obama does which is as fair as fair can be. He has made bad decisions. He has made bad compromises (that mostly did not need to be made at all) in order to satisfy his naive bipartisanship fetish.
I only blame Obama for the things Obama is responsible for like his actions and his decisions. You, on the other hand, deny reality and nothing he does is his responsbility. Take off the blinders, put down the Kool Aid, quit making sexcuses for his bad decisions and get real.
December 1, 2009 10:34 PM | Reply | Permalink
Sorry, bud. Your simpleminded obsession with blaming every evil of our political system on Obama renders you completely unable to acknowledge the political realities that Obama has to deal with. Every single comment of yours is "Obama did (or didn't do) this, that or the other". I could "fisk" practically every one of your posts and comments if I had the time or inclination,and still fail to find a reference to incalcitrant Republicans, rogue, Republican-lite Blue Dog Democrats, or a media, to use Josh Mashall's oft-cited phrase, that is still "wired for Republicans."
Case in point:
"He has done and will do absolutely nothing to re-regulate these thieves to prevent yet another collapse, the trade in toxic derivatives continues unabated just as it did prior to the collapse, he refuses to do anything that will provide meaningful help to the millions losing their homes because of his refusal to support cram downs and mandatory mortgage adjustments or requiring banks to make loans instead of investing all the TARP money in risky investments and the acquisition of more banks."
Leave aside how you can predict the future so confidently, let's look at this: "HE has done absolutely nothing;" "HE refuses to do anything;" "HIS refusal to support cram downs," etc, etc.
Why can't Congress do any of these things? I wish I was nutpicking from your voluminous commenting here, but this obsessive blaming of Obama, and only Obama, is the sum total of everything you write. It's a very simplistic way of viewing the world, the only result of which will assist conservatives in retaking the White House.
December 1, 2009 11:08 PM | Reply | Permalink
You are a follower, a sheep, you choose to be a peasant and a servant to those who would abuse you. You worship a false God and then when it is pointed out that your idol is not a God at all you get mad because your fantasy is being disturbed. How sad for you.
December 2, 2009 2:18 AM | Reply | Permalink
Nice of you to resort to spittle-flecked personal attacks, since you can't rebut the charges I leveled against you. Fail.
And, please, explain, how you are so much freer than I? If you are arguing that total denial of the reality of the world we live in is "freedom," than you can have it. i prefer to live in the real world. As a middle-class, middle-aged white American male, I am one of the freest people in the world; it is for those less fortunate, and those who are going to follow me into this society, for which I am concerned. So take your stupid "sheeple" schtick and shove it up your ass.
December 2, 2009 12:09 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'm not a parent so I guess I don't count but I am a middle class worker. So far in 2009 I've seen: no raises, all bonuses cut, work expectations climb as the company laid people off but demanded the same output. Cost of consumer borrowing has risen.
Meanwhile, local fees and taxes have climbed while federal taxes have held steady. There's been no tax rebate, no federal program to improve my standard of living just rinky dink enticements like: buy a car I don't need or a house I can't afford.
There was at least talk of a one time tax free 401(k) withdrawal but what happened to that? Seems stupid that I need toe government's permission to access my own money but it would at least be useful now.
November 30, 2009 1:46 PM | Reply | Permalink
And yes, I know "boo hoo Destor, other people have it worse." Please don't take my post as an attempt to limit what anyone else is going through. There are harder lives than mine, by far!
But, my situation is very typical. I faresay that more people have, as I have, been dealing with wage freezes and increased workloads than layoffs and we're not all, or even mostly parents. So delivering some wins for us would be good for Obama.
November 30, 2009 1:58 PM | Reply | Permalink
But unemployment went to 10.2% when Obama said unemployment would peak at only 8% without the stimulus. Any more counterproductive "wins" or "victories" like that and we will all be in the soup line.
As you point out delivering the goodies to your favored constituencies is politically important, but it does not get the economy humming.
November 30, 2009 1:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
I think the problem is relativity. We the little people get to extend our unemployment and COBRA a bit(the COBRA help just expired BTW and millions of Americans are about to lose their insurance) ... and the bankers that destroyed our ability to make a living were given trillions and are living higher on the hog than ever before.
It's kind of hard to click one's heels over stale breadcrumbs when we are footing the bill for a king's feast given people who neither need nor deserve it.
November 30, 2009 2:10 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yup. Pyrrhic victory.
Trickle down table scraps.
November 30, 2009 2:30 PM | Reply | Permalink
Well put kgb999!
Haven't seen you around these parts much in some time. Where've you been?
November 30, 2009 2:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
A confluence of life issues made me reclaim 100% of my personal time and devote it to less enjoyable endeavors. May happen again shortly. So I'm enjoying having some moments of my own for while .. nice to be back around.
November 30, 2009 9:10 PM | Reply | Permalink
The stimulus was a good thing but only about half a win in terms of the budget. First of all it was too small as is readily apparent with our "jobless" recovery. The tax cuts were a foolish concession for an unproductive use of lots of money. Now we hear nothing on the budget front other than to expect more concessions to the Republican right and Wall Street by strangling the recovery in it's crib by cutting back on every productive use of tax dollars and continuing balls to the wall on unproductive, malignant defense spending and two pointless imperial wars. I'm glad the stimulus passed, but the administration did a rotten job of conceding far to much to the Republicans (just like with healthcare) only to see them in lockstep voting in opposition. He learned nothing either time.
November 30, 2009 2:29 PM | Reply | Permalink
Oh, and one more item: where has Obama been on EFCA? Huh? Pretty God Damned absent it seems to me. It has receded into the background and it appears he is perfectly content to let it die on the vine. That is one of his biggest political mistakes in my opinion.
November 30, 2009 2:30 PM | Reply | Permalink
I've observed job creation from stimulus funding in areas of science in which I work, but the effect is only beginning, and some of the allotted funds are still proceeding through the pipeline.
The problem with the stimulus is not that it isn't working - it is - but that it takes time for the effects to become apparent, and even then, the $787 billion initially approved is probably too small for the job. It may have been the most Obama could extract from a reluctant Congress, but the time is ripe to add to the effort. If that is done, significant improvements should start to be apparent before the November 2010 elections. Politics aside, it's something that needs doing anyway.
November 30, 2009 2:44 PM | Reply | Permalink
People forget that Dick and George Jr. didn't break this country over night. It wasn't until they snookered Congress into launching the Iraq war in Oct. 2002, a full 22-months after taking office, that they really started the dirty snowball rolling down hill.
Don't get me wrong, there's plenty that Obama can be criticized for. But think about where the country would be if McCain won the election.
Please add as you see fit.
1. Sarah Palin wouldn't have written a tell all book. (That in itself might have convinced a lot of people not to vote for Obama.)
2. We would be discussing whether to put another 100,000 or 200,000 troops in Afghanistan.
3. Hillary Clinton would not have anywhere near the frequent flyer miles she now has.
4. Without a Senate seat to sell, Rod Blagojevich would still be governor of Illinois. And Ronald Burris would still have integrity.
5. Health Care would only be discussed between those with health insurance and their doctors.
6. Arlen Specter would still be a Republican.
7. The big 3 car companies would be the big 1 car company.
November 30, 2009 3:03 PM | Reply | Permalink
Seems like the guy is damned if he does and damned if he doesn't...1/2 the country thinks the stimulus was too small, 1/2 thinks it should never have happened to begin with...
Why anyone would want to be President in this day in age is beyond me...
With all the alligators from both parties and the indies circling below, the guy is walking a tightrope with no safety net. The next few years is going to VERY interesting.
November 30, 2009 3:03 PM | Reply | Permalink
And both halves of the country are absolutely certain that everyone else thinks exactly the same way that they do. Or at least, all the "Real Americans"/"The People".
November 30, 2009 7:31 PM | Reply | Permalink
Keep voting for the "Lesser Evil" and that's what we'll get.
December 1, 2009 12:55 AM | Reply | Permalink
I'm still waiting for an alternative. To me, choosing the "greater of two evils" doesn't seem very smart.
December 1, 2009 11:56 AM | Reply | Permalink
I guess you're not a "heightening the contradictions" Leninist.
The oppressed are allowed once every few years to decide which particular representatives of the oppressing class shall represent and repress them in parliament. Lenin, "State and Revolution" (1917)
December 1, 2009 12:34 PM | Reply | Permalink
I know it betrays me as a starry-eyed optimist amongst all of you clear-seeing "realists" on this site, but comparing America, with all of its flaws, to Czarist Russia, or hell, post-Revolutionary Russia, seems a bit of a stretch.
December 1, 2009 1:03 PM | Reply | Permalink
" I don't think anyone can point to a larger domestic spending increase by the federal government on a per-year basis in American history."
And this is a good thing, when we are more than 10 trillion in debt? Wonder why gold is skyrocketing and the dollar down the tubes?
December 1, 2009 8:35 AM | Reply | Permalink
George gets a blank check and Obama gets the straitjacket. I see how it goes.
Of course, the best stimulus would have been more tax cuts for the top tier earners! Then they would have had the extra cash to hire domestic workers.
December 1, 2009 10:51 AM | Reply | Permalink
I drive (not daily because my "commute" is inside my house, but at least weekly) on roads and bridges that are in good shape because of stimulus funds.
This is probably true for most people. It's the usual infrastructure story: it's completely invisible when it works, and a total disaster when it does not.
December 1, 2009 1:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
Bridges built/repaired by the 'stimulus' funds? Seriously? You think bridge repair/construction happens that fast? Besides only 15% or so of the total stimulus was for infrastructure projects, and most of that has not been spent yet.
December 1, 2009 5:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
Keep voting forparça kontör the "Lesser Evil" and that's what we'll get.
November 18, 2010 12:06 PM | Reply | Permalink