Is Everybody Disappointed In Obama?
I think that President Obama's problems are not reflected in his 49% approval rate in the latest polls. Next week he'll be at 56% or 46%. Whatever. I don't put much stock in them.
But I do put stock in this. I do not know a single person who is not disappointed by Obama's first year in office. And the people I know represent Obama's base. Pretty much all of them supported him in the primaries. They worked like dogs during the general. And they took buses, cars and planes to be at his inauguration.
Today much of their enthusiasm is gone.
And the reason for their disappointment is that they wanted a fighter, someone who would implement campaign promises (at least the ones a President can do unilaterally like gays in the military) and challenge the right's lies. Instead they have a conciliator.
One friend said it best. "Would Sarah Palin and her minions be able to scream about the debt if Obama had made clear from day one who was responsible for it? Would they be able to yell about his 'dithering' on Afghanistan if he pointed out that Bush and Cheney's decision to fight in Iraq caused us to lose Afghanistan."
Why didn't Obama allow hearings on how we were lied and manipulated into Iraq and how Rumsfeld made the decision to let Osama slip away into Pakistan? Why do we never hear about how Bush converted Clinton's surplus into the worst deficit in history? Democrats kept winning for 20 years by referring to Hoover's depression. And yet Democrats today shrink from the idea of blaming the administration that give Clinton's surplus away to the ultra-rich?
Bottom line. Liberals want an administration that is the left wing equivalent of the Bush-Cheney administration, an administration that had principles and stuck to them (every one of them wrong) and knew the difference between friends and enemies. They are sick and tired of a White House being held hostage by the likes of Evan Bayh and the House bluedogs.
Today all the passion is on the right. At this rate, it's the right that will turn out in unprecedented numbers in 2010 and 2012.
How did this happen? Who is to blame? And who is going to turn this situation around before we are in Jimmy Carterland? We have the smartest, most decent President in our lifetimes. Are we going to blow this opportunity by allowing thugs and bigots to convince the American public that they, and not the Democrats, are on their side?
Michael Jackson said: "I'm a lover, not a fighter." In a President, we need the opposite.

















I am not disappointed in Obama.
A. Would you want Sarah as VP looking to advance her narcisstic agenda to president by giving McCain a chocolate donut with sprinkles on it?
B. How about a Republican administration riding roughshod over a Democratic Congress? There would be more Vetoes than a Sons of Italy parade.
C. McCain fully intended to bomb Iran. He certainly would not have used diplomacy. How would that have helped Israel and the Middle East?
D. Bush did everything he could to set Obama up for failure. The Republicans have and continue to do everything they could to block any progress by the President and Congress. They have done so to the extent the Republicans are in a politcal
November 22, 2009 11:51 AM | Reply | Permalink
A prediction. Though we may never get an investigation into lying us into Iraq, Rumsfeld, KBR, etc. I think Pres. Obama is going to get quite aggressive in reminding voters re: whence ALL our major problems came from and how the Repug minority in the Senate has turned what used to be a rarity (threat of filibuster) into an obstruction for EVERY attempt to address the problems THEY created. He is going to be campaigning for Dem candidates all across the country.
November 22, 2009 1:27 PM | Reply | Permalink
On Obama aggressive LACK of Bush era-related investigation, Glenn Greenwald is a must read this week.
http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/
November 22, 2009 1:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
When Rosenberg say "everybody," he makes it clear that he means people like himself and his friends.
I'm not a big fan, but I have to say...
Rosenberg and his friends are well-educated, intelligent liberals who follow the news in detail.
In that sense of "everybody," the answer is probably...
Yes, everybody is disappointed with Obama.
November 22, 2009 7:11 PM | Reply | Permalink
Rutubaga, the polls clearly say otherwise. You profoundly wishing otherwise wont affect that reality.
Its not a small cliche of dissatisfied people, its half the population of the United States. Trying to pretend there is no problem will kill this party's future in leading the government. We need to have the courage to address the questions and issues, and not just pretend they dont exist. I'd submit thats your problem, and Obama's problem as well, on many issues.
MJ is spot on.
November 23, 2009 4:31 AM | Reply | Permalink
Harharharhar!!!
I love the liberal blogosphere! For every small sign of intelligence in it, there's always yet another dumb schmuck like "bkozumplik" dispensing half-baked edification in November, 2009, to people who already saw through Obama in November, 2007, when that son-of-a-bitch supported FTA-Peru after every farmer and worker in Peru had gone out on general strike against it.
Congratulations to M.J. Rosenberg and "bkozumplik" for finally waking up and noticing that we elected a blathering con-man.
Now look up "retarded" in your online dictionary, and try not to be quite so late for the next election.
November 23, 2009 7:53 AM | Reply | Permalink
Try to make some kind of a clear point Rutubaga. Consider that ad hominem attacks are a waste of blog space and everyone's time-- so best avoided.
November 23, 2009 12:34 PM | Reply | Permalink
Nasty and unbecoming comment!
November 23, 2009 6:44 PM | Reply | Permalink
Who better to defend the backward than tlees, still blogging about the JFK assassination after all these years!
Did you even bother to read bkozumplik's reply to my first comment?
The chump bkozumplik insulted me without even bothering to click on my moniker, which would have led him to 150 diaries which don't fit his silly misinterpretation of my comment, and then...
Poor old tlees wheezes out of his shoebox full of JFK memorabilia to defend the offensive dimwit bkozumplik!
Bravo! At least you're loyal to your demographic!
November 24, 2009 3:33 AM | Reply | Permalink
No thats true Rutubaga, I don't care to do research to try to figure out the backgrounds of random posters on blogs, any more than you do. I count on them to make a coherent point on their own. I'm not your mother Rutabaga, or your english teacher. If you can't write a coherent comment, that's your problem. I also can't teach you to think, or be civil or fun to be around. And great job catching the fact that I didn't use an apostrophe on "that's". You're a very smart person! You sure showed me! Ouch!! I can't believe I missed that apostrophe.
Man, I bet you are a lot of fun in person aren't you. Life of the party? Lots of people want to talk to you? I bet you are chock full of valuable insights. Yeah. Will you be my friend?
November 24, 2009 4:25 AM | Reply | Permalink
So anybody who is interested in history, including a history teacher, is subject to mockery by you?
November 25, 2009 11:24 AM | Reply | Permalink
Yep. They're villagers now. This is how villagers think.
November 23, 2009 1:06 PM | Reply | Permalink
Don't count on that. Obama does not have the stomach to tell the truth about how our country got in this mess because that requires pointing out that the Republicans are responsible for it all. It makes him appear too "partisan" when he tells the truth to the country about how this mess came about. As a result, he has lost the opportunity to point the finger of blame rightly where it belongs and the Republicans are pinning it all on him! Adding insult to injury he refuses to defend even himself when they pull this crap!
November 22, 2009 9:39 PM | Reply | Permalink
Me neither. I think our President is doing a stellar job in view of the problems he is facing. Unfortunately he is not getting any credit for it and that is not by mistake.
Did any of you really believe change would happen over night? If so then no wonder you are disappointed.
The whiners can whine all they want. I'm sticking with this President and I have no doubt he will be re-elected a second term. If not, we will go back to the same party that got us in this mess in the first place and as you all can see from their rhetoric, they liked things just the way they were and would be happy to go back to those days.
NOT ME!!
November 23, 2009 1:58 PM | Reply | Permalink
Thanks for your patience and sorry for the inconvenience!
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December 16, 2010 9:38 AM | Reply | Permalink
I am a fan of your writing and rarely comment here but this post has sincerely left me baffled. I may not be 100% happy with everything Obama has done but your 'proof' that everyone is disappointed with Obama seems flimsy. I volunteered in 3 different states for Obama, went door to door and am still pretty much in touch with everyone I worked with in the grassroots to get Obama elected. Not one of these people reflect this disappointment you speak of. I and most of the people I worked with did NOT want a GW Bush just in democratic clothing. Whoever thought Obama was that was simply projecting and did not pay attention to the election campaign. Obama is Obama and he is going to get things done his way. I guess if he were GW Bush we would have already gotten other things done? Think again. We are about to get a health Care bill other presidents did not even come close to so I am sticking to supporting his style and giving his administration a chance to get the work done. Also--way to propagate Fox News Talking Points--Black Jimmy Carter! Let's check back in June and see who is Jimmy carter then.
November 22, 2009 11:51 AM | Reply | Permalink
Ditto! Always amazes me that such blanket generalities are utilized in these types of posts. I don't know many who share the opinion or assumptions as stated in this blog.
November 22, 2009 12:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
Well, I hear it all the time here in the Philadelphia area.
November 22, 2009 3:03 PM | Reply | Permalink
LFO,
I'm of of the Obama supporters MJ is referring to, and No, I don't wish McCain/Palin had won simply because of my disappointment in Obama.
Obama's adoption of many of the Bush/Cheney gang's tactics in the war on terror, his seeming admiration for the Imperial Presidency, his refusal to make public certain records and pictures of CIA misconduct, his refusal to investigate possible criminal conduct of the Bush gang, his fighting FOIA requests, his adopting the "stater secrets" tactic of the Bush gang, his procrastination in handling Don't Ask Don't Tell, his absolute fecklessness regarding the Health Care Reform, his obsession with bi-partisanship with people who bite his hand off evertime he offers it, his pandering to Olympia Snowe in order to find laughable bi-partisanship with ONE Republican.
Finally, rather than appoint someone like Krugman or Stiglitz as Sec of Treasury he chose Geithner who, through AIG, practically sold the Teasury out to the Bankers. Geithner is too enamoured with Goldman Sachs and the rest of the robber barons on Wall Street.
Winning smiles and great speeches without strong leadership are worthless. Unless there's a monumental change in the economy soon Obama's weak leadership will go a long way to the Dems losing seats in the Senate, House and White House.
November 22, 2009 4:06 PM | Reply | Permalink
Amen!
November 22, 2009 5:05 PM | Reply | Permalink
Right on target John! Well put!
November 22, 2009 9:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
agreed.
November 23, 2009 4:34 AM | Reply | Permalink
Oops! As I was saying:
They have done so to the extent the Republicans are in a politcal death spiral.
E. And so on.
Your argument fails to take into consideration some serious realities, and overlooks the probable perils of the alternative.
November 22, 2009 11:55 AM | Reply | Permalink
Some "death spiral!" They'll pick up at least 25 seats in the House next year if unemployment is at 9 percent or higher. If they get a majority, impeachment hearings will begin immediately. Like that idea?
Obama has just flat sucked. He hasn't led on the economy and he's dithered on Afghanistan. He appears indecisive and weak. Everybody thought the Repubs were in a death spiral the first year of Carter's presidency, too. Later, they were rooting for Reagan to be nominated because he would be so easy to beat. If Obama keeps this up, he;ll get a strong primary challenge in 2012, and deservedly so. Obama's got about 6 months to tuen this economy around. If unemployment is close to where it is now next August, he and the Dems are finished.
November 23, 2009 6:40 AM | Reply | Permalink
It's a tough situation because a lot of people I know are also really tired of "Blame Bush" talk, even though Obama isn't passed his first year and has already done some good.
It's not that Bush isn't really still to blame, either. The financial crisis is his. And how can Obama be "dithering" about Afghanistan when the previou administration should have had the problem well solved before a new president took office (did anyone think Afghanistan was going to be an 8-year plus occupation?)
Problem is, there's a lot of appetite on both the left and right to forget Bush entirely. Psychologically, we are repulsed by failure. We don't like to dwell on it. There's also a bias, both on the left and the right for Obama to "own" his presidency.
Obama is also not the type to blame the last guy. It doesn't suit Obama's character. He doesn't like to do it. He's definitely an alpha male.
He's also a snob in the best sense of the term. He won't get into a public argument with people he seems unworthy. This means the Sarah Palins of the world can take a lot of free shots because Obama doesn't see much point in debating them.
I still have some problems with the big guy. I hate the health care legislation and I find it hard to muster support for it. I think the stimulus was a bit botched, relying on a trickle down effect while people are the top of the economy are just hoarding the money. I don't want to send more troops to Afghanistan. So some of my enthusiasm is waning just because he's not doing what I would have him do.
November 22, 2009 11:56 AM | Reply | Permalink
He's also a snob in the best sense of the term.
Were he he would have sacked the general who appeared in this piece of sartorial disrespect, then and there.
Note: The photo's location is London, not the plains of Afghanistan. And Maureen Dowd -- there's always a first time for everything -- has it right: “Your pie-holes [McCrystal's and Petraeus'] you will shut or rise higher you will not. Because, dang it, the president I am!”
November 22, 2009 8:05 PM | Reply | Permalink
Good point, as always.
November 22, 2009 8:49 PM | Reply | Permalink
"Ellen" doesn't have a clue who Stanley McChrystal is, or she would also know that he sleeps, eats, fornicates, and kills in that combat uniform, and that persona is exactly why Obama gave him McKiernan's job.
November 22, 2009 10:04 PM | Reply | Permalink
It shouldn't be antiBush talk anyway Destor. It needs to be anti-Republican and anti-Conservative. They need to be discredited and it needs to be done by our President. Sadly, he just doesn't have it in him to stand up like a man and denounce these assholes and discredit them. The other side denounced and insulted and excoriated liberals and Democrats for the past 40 years and it was mostly lies but it worked. Now that they have wrecked the economy and our reputation around the world and brought the country to it's knees we have a Democratic President who would rather get his ass kicked over and over and over than to stand up and denounce the Conservatives as the charlatans they are.
November 22, 2009 9:46 PM | Reply | Permalink
What conservatives are you talking about? GWB? Hardly. What spending did he cut? Did he balance a budget? NO. These aren't conservatives and I'm tired of being labeled with them. Both parties have found that it's easy to spend money and you get nothing for being frugal. Nobody votes for the guy who didn't build a bridge.
November 22, 2009 11:28 PM | Reply | Permalink
Every Republican calls themselves conservative. I'm not interested in your semantics. Conservatives overall. Republicans overall.
November 22, 2009 11:43 PM | Reply | Permalink
Typical cut-n-run from a new righty conservative poseur.
Riddle me this, faux honourable one, just who the f**k was your choice for President in 2000 and 2004? Then tell us why you were so easily duped. Is that another trait of Conservatives?
November 23, 2009 12:35 AM | Reply | Permalink
I voted for Bush, both times. What choice was there? Al Gore? He's a total freakin moron, and a charlatan/huckster as well. He's made over $100 million since he left government (he had NOTHING when he left) preaching Global Warming while investing heavily in the companies he pushes the gov't to support. Talk about conflict of interest. You people freaked out over Halliburton, but Cheney had no interest in it while VP. With Gore, it would be like Cheney was still CEO and had millions in stock. You liberals would have gone apoplectic. Plus Gore lives in a 10000 sq ft mansion and flies around in a private jet telling us all we need to cut back and live green.
November 23, 2009 7:15 AM | Reply | Permalink
See, you're not a REAL conservative, because you refuse to step up and accept responsibility for the effects that flow as cause from your past actions. Instead you play apologist, and distort the truth.
You state now that you had no choice other than to vote for GW Bush both in 2000 and 2004. Fool you twice? If your vote in an election was based upon a lesser of two evils argument, then you freely admit that you willfully voted for evil. That's a preponderate lack of principles governing your actions.
Additionally, your claims of not wholeheartedly supporting Bush, and having to hold your nose when voting for him seems suspect, given your own blog post here at TPM Cafe on August 11, 2008:
Even I no longer support Bush
Pretender...
November 23, 2009 10:05 AM | Reply | Permalink
NO, it just shows you are incapable of thought. I admitted that I was not a huge supporter of Bush from the start, but knew he was vastly better than the alternatives. You try to play word games about 'lesser of 2 evils', I never said Gore or Kerry were evil, just stupid. I never said I had to 'hold my nose' to vote for him, I liked him much more than McCain in general, and far, far, more than Kerry or Gore. But I did get disgusted with him after 2004 as he bungled the SS reform, and for his mishandling Afghanistan. I was really disgusted with the Georgian affair and how he let the State Dept screw up Uzbekistan. Fiscally he was never a conservative as he spent way too much, and he constantly tried to win over Democrats instead of steamrolling them.
November 23, 2009 5:06 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'm stupid? why, because I don't take your weak and lame rationalising in an impotent effort to absolve yourself of proper responsibility at face value, and instead point out what you have stated in the past that indicates you supported GW Bush until he became vastly unpopular in the eyes of Americans? Offer some links to you posts/comments here that support your claims. I make your first blog post here at TPM to be dated July 2, 2008:
They can't be this stupid
Even at that late date in the GW Bush Administration, you proffered no opinion in opposition to DubyaDim. Just when did you decide that GW isn't really a conservative? Just when did you decide you didn't support him? You supported his inhumane pro-torture policies. That is self-evident from your post of April 22, 2009:
Read this if you oppose 'torture' for terrorists
You claim you were uncomfortable with GW Bush from the beginning, yet have not offered any (excuse the use of this next word, which so many Contemporary Conservatives consider to be obscene) Evidence in support of this. Instead you hurled a non sequitur insult at me, calling me stupid. ROTFLMAO! I'm calling your bluff: Put up or shut up, righty hiding out in a conservative disguise.
November 23, 2009 9:31 PM | Reply | Permalink
well, I'm certainly not disappointed in Obama. I think we get pretty much what I expected. Sure, like everybody, I sometimes entertained a wild hope that he would surprise me positively. That does happen, rarely. But I knew that I was just daydreaming, like about winning the lottery.
We didn't win the lottery. we got exactly what we paid for when we bought the lottery ticket, a short license to dream that life could be different, until reality reasserts itself.
What is disappointing for me is reading post after post here, including MJ's original, analyzing the issue as Obama's personality or style, or discussing which leading candidate would have been better. That's pathetic, it's like agonizing over taking the lottery ticket ending with 34 instead of the one ending in 77.
Obama is president because he convinced the power structure, the wall street funding base, the political commentariat, etc., that he would deliver them. Most crucially, that he, with his "community organizer" horse manure, is the best person to save US capitalism from the growing anger that is building up against it. And he does exactly that. He's saving wall-street's bacon. He's managing our anger. He's saving the insurance industry from reform. He's saving the war industry from the anger thatwasbuilding up against ity during the Bush years. He is demobilizing liberals. He is depoliticizing those who been recently politicized. He is doing great! This is the way power works. You want it to be different, you need to build a different power.
There is no shortcuts. We are in Afghanistan because we are ruled by the military-industrial complex. Hillary, Biden, Gore, nobody will do squat about that. They can't stand up to it for the same reason you can't stand up to train.
We are bailing out wall-street because we are ruled by wall-street, not because Obama is a patsy. If he weren't a wall-street patsy, he wouldn't have been electable in the first place. That's the rule. Look, Kucinich isn't a corporate patsy. He proved it by obstructing privatization to the point of losing his job as mayor. That is why he is not going to be president. Why didn't you all stuff envelopes and rang doors for Kucinich? You didn't do it because he wasn't electable and he wasn't electable because he isn't a patsy of corporate America.
November 24, 2009 10:41 AM | Reply | Permalink
well, I'm certainly not disappointed in Obama. I think we get pretty much what I expected. Sure, like everybody, I sometimes entertained a wild hope that he would surprise me positively. That does happen, rarely. But I knew that I was just daydreaming, like about winning the lottery.
We didn't win the lottery. we got exactly what we paid for when we bought the lottery ticket, a short license to dream that life could be different, until reality reasserts itself.
What is disappointing for me is reading post after post here, including MJ's original, analyzing the issue as Obama's personality or style, or discussing which leading candidate would have been better. That's pathetic, it's like agonizing over taking the lottery ticket ending with 34 instead of the one ending in 77.
Obama is president because he convinced the power structure, the wall street funding base, the political commentariat, etc., that he would deliver them. Most crucially, that he, with his "community organizer" horse manure, is the best person to save US capitalism from the growing anger that is building up against it. And he does exactly that. He's saving wall-street's bacon. He's managing our anger. He's saving the insurance industry from reform. He's saving the war industry from the anger thatwasbuilding up against ity during the Bush years. He is demobilizing liberals. He is depoliticizing those who been recently politicized. He is doing great! This is the way power works. You want it to be different, you need to build a different power.
There is no shortcuts. We are in Afghanistan because we are ruled by the military-industrial complex. Hillary, Biden, Gore, nobody will do squat about that. They can't stand up to it for the same reason you can't stand up to train.
We are bailing out wall-street because we are ruled by wall-street, not because Obama is a patsy. If he weren't a wall-street patsy, he wouldn't have been electable in the first place. That's the rule. Look, Kucinich isn't a corporate patsy. He proved it by obstructing privatization to the point of losing his job as mayor. That is why he is not going to be president. Why didn't you all stuff envelopes and rang doors for Kucinich? You didn't do it because he wasn't electable and he wasn't electable because he isn't a patsy of corporate America.
November 24, 2009 10:43 AM | Reply | Permalink
"What choice was there? "
Gore and Kerry.
November 23, 2009 6:57 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'm not disappointed yet, because (a) I knew he was pretty conciliatory (but also good at keeping the right wingnuts doing the circular firing squad thing, at the same time), and (b) I knew that any change would be very slow. I'll decide how disappointed I am in about another 2.5 years. :-)
November 22, 2009 12:32 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'm with you. I think it is moronic and immature to expect this President to turn around a country that was on the brink of disaster in less than a year. He has accomplished a lot in a short time in office and I believe those mosty of us who voted for him sincerely are willing to give him time especially in view of the circumstances.
Obama accomplishments
Signed on October 28, 2009
Hate Crimes Bill
Signed on October 28, 2009
National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2010
Signed on October 22, 2009
Veterans Health Care Budget Reform and Transparency Act
#
Signed on August 06, 2009
Cash For Clunkers Extension
#
Signed on June 22, 2009
Family Smoking Prevention and Tobacco Control Act
#
Signed on May 22, 2009
Credit Card Accountability, Responsibility, and Disclosure (CARD) Act of 2009
#
Signed on May 22, 2009
Weapons Systems Acquisition Reform Act
#
Signed on May 20, 2009
Helping Families Save Their Homes Act
#
Signed on May 20, 2009
Fraud Enforcement and Recovery Act
#
Signed on April 21, 2009
Edward M. Kennedy Serve America Act
#
Signed on March 30, 2009
Omnibus Public Lands Management Act
Signed on March 20, 2009
Small Business Act Temporary Extension
Signed on February 17, 2009
American Recovery and Reinvestment Act
*
Signed on February 11, 2009
DTV Delay Act
Signed on February 04, 2009
Children’s Health Insurance Reauthorization Act
*
Signed on January 29, 2009
Lilly Ledbetter Fair Pay Act
November 23, 2009 1:47 PM | Reply | Permalink
MJ,
This was always in the cards.
I, personally took an enormous amount of (sniff) abuse here at TPM for pointing out (predicting) that it was going to be this way during the primaries and during the campaign. That called me everything in the book.
My idea, was always that the let down of all the enthusiastic Obamaite kids was going to do more damage to progressive politics in America than a McCain presidency would have. You'll not get all those young kids and minorities out to vote again like that easily ever again. They have been neutralized. Mission accomplished.
You don't have to be a Noam Chomsky to figure out that this was just a cosmetic operation of the establishment to clean up the damage to America's image that Bush caused. Obama was their Lampedusa, "change everything to change nothing" move.
My fear is that this disappointment may open the doors to a Palin or something even worse.
November 22, 2009 12:55 PM | Reply | Permalink
I have always respected your thoughts presented here. You may be right. I may be crazy.
What you seem to say is the sociopaths who put profit and power ahead of all else have made feints within feints to continue us on their path to species extinction. That's all right too. They will die with the rest of us.
November 22, 2009 1:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
You weren't alone David, and I might add, many of the true believers are still holding forth and howling till their voices give out if anyone dares to point out the truth of what the Obama Presidency is.
November 22, 2009 9:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
Quote-Unquote: from another website, folks:
And the most powerful part of a remarkably powerful program came at its conclusion, when Bill Moyers looked into the camera and said:
Now in a different world, at a different time, and with a different president, we face the prospect of enlarging a different war. But once again we're fighting in remote provinces against an enemy who can bleed us slowly and wait us out, because he will still be there when we are gone.
Once again, we are caught between warring factions in a country where other foreign powers fail before us. Once again, every setback brings a call for more troops, although no one can say how long they will be there or what it means to win. Once again, the government we are trying to help is hopelessly corrupt and incompetent.
And once again, a President pushing for critical change at home is being pressured to stop dithering, be tough, show he's got the guts, by sending young people seven thousand miles from home to fight and die, while their own country is coming apart.
And once again, the loudest case for enlarging the war is being made by those who will not have to fight it, who will be safely in their beds while the war grinds on. And once again, a small circle of advisers debates the course of action, but one man will make the decision.
We will never know what would have happened if Lyndon Johnson had said no to more war. We know what happened because he said yes.
It is possible to go to the "Bill Moyers Journal" website and view "A Tale of Quagmires."
It is possible, as well, to visit the same site and read the transcript of a wise and nuanced rumination that is arguably the best statement available on both the war in Vietnam and the war in Afghanistan.
November 22, 2009 1:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
Amen!
November 22, 2009 3:05 PM | Reply | Permalink
Great post. Thanks for the Bill Moyers commentary. I sure am going to miss him when he retires.
November 23, 2009 3:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
The last that I knew, members of the Taliban happen to be citizens of Afghanistan.
Why oh why are we chasing ants on the other side of the world?
Does the Israeli government hold some sort of trump card against the U.S. government - if the latter should start thinking twice?
Are all Dem centrists nothing but shills for AIPAC?
November 22, 2009 1:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
President Obama is teaching us about emotional intelligence - that is the ability to operate without reacting impulsively to difficult situations. He was left with the worst mess any incoming president has had in my lifetime. He is not demagogueing(my spell check says that is not a word)he has stayed calm and collected.
As he said when he first got elected - the ship of state does not turn on a dime (and those who think it can are fooling themselves).
It would not be the first time we on the left shot ourselves in the foot because we were impatient with an enlightened leader. Jimmy Carter appointed Paul Volker head of the Fed and Volker tamed inflation by raising interest rates (I remember bying a fix up house and having a 21% interest mortgage). Everyone on the left freaked out and wanted instant change and so we got Ronald Reagan. Our country has been in a downward spiral, as far as the middle class and poor go, since then (with a slight reprieve during Clinton.
We now have a president with the emotional intelligence to bring us real change and everyong on the left is freaked out because their little issue has not been front and center
Grow up!
November 22, 2009 1:49 PM | Reply | Permalink
Grow up yourself -- like it or not the voters will probably react the same way they did with Carter. Obama needs to learn to please his base or we are going to get someone far worse than McCain.
I agree that the left will be self-indulgent and wrong not to work all out for Obama the second time around but when you have been led to expect steak and get left over stew it is hard to work up enthusiasm.
As with Seaton I took a very careful look at who Obama said he was and have yet to be surprised by anything he has done except the appointment of Hillary. I thought his foreign policy was very much the same as hers, if anything rather farther to the right but I didn't expect him to put her in the cabinet.
November 22, 2009 2:06 PM | Reply | Permalink
That was something I was saying at the time: McCain was about the last half way decent Republican left.
November 22, 2009 3:28 PM | Reply | Permalink
That might be true if you think decent republicans want to bomb the hell out of everyone; and don't know shit from Shinola about the economy; and want air-heads as Vice Presidents.
November 22, 2009 3:41 PM | Reply | Permalink
So David instead of Obama, and after four years of:
the last half way decent Republican
..and his coterie of idiots and fools running the country further into an even deeper ditch, which politician from what party, with which Congress and Senate would appear to raise the nation from the ashes to greet a new dawn of a magically enlightened citizenry united in demanding specific sound and erudite policies?
It is more likely the divisiveness, fear mongering and vitriol would only worsen after 4 years of McCain/Palin, and the candidate pool would become even more beholden to big moneyed interests.
November 22, 2009 4:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
That isn't the choice nor is it David's point. Nobody who voted for Obama thinks anyone would be better off with McCain. The problem is that Obama is only marginally better than McCain and the whole "change" message was nothing more than a marketing device, but one that is going to make bitter cynics out of most the naive first time voters who thought that the change thing was really what he was all about, that he was "different." The point is that he's really just the Democratic version of more of the same, not change.
November 22, 2009 9:56 PM | Reply | Permalink
If some believe Obama is 'more of the same' than they are saying McCain would be no different. I believe they are wrong.
The first 10 months of the Obama administration have shown that change in this nation does not come easily, has many opponents, and cannot be accomplished easily, particularly by a Democratic Party where too many legislators are afraid to support it.
November 23, 2009 10:29 AM | Reply | Permalink
Absolutely not. You're just choosing to distort the very clear point here so you don't have to deal with the reality of it.
November 23, 2009 12:14 PM | Reply | Permalink
... and he has given the world Sarah Palin. Thanks so much, John!
November 22, 2009 8:10 PM | Reply | Permalink
you miss the point.
its his choices that betray him!
November 22, 2009 6:59 PM | Reply | Permalink
"their little issue" Really? Such as what? The rule of law that Obama said he would restore but has undermined even further? The mortgage foreclosure crisis that he has not done anything about but instead chose to lavish Wall Street with what is left of the nation's treasury? Jobs about which he has done precious little? DADT? Stopping domestic spying which he has expanded? Respecting the Freedom of Information Act which he has undermined significantly? Stopping the wars which there is little hope he will do despite his empty promises? Healthcare reform which he doesn't even refer to instead he refers to insurance reform because his reform is basically an industry special interest bill? Little issues huh?
November 22, 2009 9:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
I think Obama is doing a great job. He listens to every side of an issue, and makes an informed decision based on the facts, not the politics. He is exactly what I voted for and supported.
If he is not successful it is the fault of those supporters like me who have not done enough to get his agenda through. Change is hard. What he is trying to do has been impossible in the past. There are too many entrenched interests in Washington, putting huge amounts of pressure on the government. Obama needs us to put pressure the other way on congress.
November 22, 2009 2:11 PM | Reply | Permalink
He's one of the entrenched interests, Okie. Look at his appointments - Geithner, Gates, Clinton, Rahm. Establishment hacks every one of them. His bipartisanship fetish is a page from the same book - what's really important is preserving the ruling oligarchy of two economically center-right and far-right parties.
November 22, 2009 3:37 PM | Reply | Permalink
this is why obama acts the way he does.
just pathetic
November 22, 2009 7:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
"One friend said it best. "Would Sarah Palin and her minions be able to scream about the debt if Obama had made clear from day one who was responsible for it? Would they be able to yell about his 'dithering' on Afghanistan if he pointed out that Bush and Cheney's decision to fight in Iraq caused us to lose Afghanistan."
Your friend is quite naive if they think that facts will stop Sarah Palin and her right wing friends from spewing lies. Obama has made these points countless times during the campaign and after he got into office. And the polls show that most Americans have not forgotten who got us into the wars and the financial mess. It's the media and the Right who are in denial. They will be reminded soon enough. He is not going to spend everyday fighting off these attacks, he's not on the campaign trail anymore.
"Bottom line. Liberals want an administration that is the left wing equivalent of the Bush-Cheney administration, an administration that had principles and stuck to them (every one of them wrong) and knew the difference between friends and enemies."
Shaking my damn head. After watching this guy for 2 years and seeing how he was complimentary of his opponents, agreeing with some or part of their ideas, constantly talking about reaching across the aisle in bipartisanship, you all thought he was going to be the Left wing equivalent of W.? He spent a lot of time promising the American people that he would not act like W. The Left thought that was a lie? an act? I heard several people say that the Left was projecting, and they were quickly dismissed. It is now apparently true. So blame your unreasonable expectations, not Obama's performance for your disappointment.
"Why didn't Obama allow hearings on how we were lied and manipulated into Iraq and how Rumsfeld made the decision to let Osama slip away into Pakistan? Why do we never hear about how Bush converted Clinton's surplus into the worst deficit in history? Democrats kept winning for 20 years by referring to Hoover's depression. And yet Democrats today shrink from the idea of blaming the administration that give Clinton's surplus away to the ultra-rich?"
1. This was in the news, no one cared because they were worried about losing their homes and jobs. 2. People know, that's why Americans rejected the GOP and gave Dems the majority. 3. We need to focus on what the GOP is doing NOW, which is NOTHING.
I am not disappointed in Obama (surprise, surprise). He is a politician working with other politicians in Washington D.C. - this is not exactly a fertile ground for the revolutionary change that Liberals want. People like to make long lists of the promises Obama made, but fail to remember the warnings. Many times he said, Power does not concede easily, change doesn't come from Washington, it comes to Washington (he wasn't talking about himself), change doesn't happen overnight, he might not get it done in his first year or his first term, there will be false starts, the hard work begins now, on and on and on. That wasn't a lie.
I am, however, very disappointed in the Left. Where is your fight? Why do you need the President to hold your hands or to inspire you? Why is the Right out organizing you? Is the possibility of President Sarah Palin not motivating enough? Or a president who will have to govern from the far right in order to stay in office? Forget helping Obama and making sure he gets reelected -it's not about him, I thought the Left was all about caring for the little guy, the middle class and the poor. Was that a lie? Did you only care about sticking it to right wingers who are 25%(or much less) of this country?
You have a Democrat in the White House. Take advantage. Get a new and EFFECTIVE stratergy for getting what you want from the White House. Stop demonizing his gatekeeper, Rahm. I just have to say that is a really really really foolish thing to do. Do not make an enemy out of the gatekeeper. Opportunity is banging on the door and you should not ignore it because it's not all of what you wanted. Get over it, get organized and get moving.
November 22, 2009 2:36 PM | Reply | Permalink
This exactly. The people who are not disappointed are actually the omens working on the ground not the ones spending the weekend obsessing over Gallup and Palin.
November 22, 2009 3:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yes, this exactly. Thank you for posting this. Obama is the President, not the dictator and there are three branches to our government. The left needs to keep the fight going all through the congressional elections.
November 22, 2009 8:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
Excellent post. Thank you
November 23, 2009 2:43 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yes, everybody is disappointed.
Other than a dozen or so who will comment here.
November 22, 2009 2:46 PM | Reply | Permalink
ditto
November 24, 2009 10:26 PM | Reply | Permalink
"Grow up!" Just what we need, another junior high principal weighing in on international affairs.
Grow up? Yeah, I did, forty years ago - at a firebase near the Cambodian border, you tiddly winks asshat.
Listening to the taped Oval Office conversations of LBJ which Moyers includes in his programe, it is so apparent that the one primary, chief consideration was (and remains) political necessity. Oh yes, the necessities of American politics. People must die so that one or another side prevails in Washington.
Nothing has changed, huh folks?
In light of the old joke about the issue of where does an elephant sit, just stop awhile to consider all of the minions in Washington so ready and willing to french any and all elephants of the political world. And on the other hand, what is the essential difference between being an elected elephant and frenching AIPAC?
The stench is always acute and one can smell them a block away.
November 22, 2009 2:54 PM | Reply | Permalink
Nixon' on tape too (and not just about Watergate)- he and Kissinger dragged out things to let the 1972 election go by.
November 22, 2009 3:09 PM | Reply | Permalink
"... you tiddly winks asshat."
Love it!
November 23, 2009 6:59 PM | Reply | Permalink
I didn't have high expectations for Obama but he isn't the problem. The problem is that we have no political party to represent the interests of the middle-class, labor and the unmentionable poor. We have two political parties working to preserve the wealth of the top 2 or 3%. The Republicans feed their base with social issues and the Democrats feed their base with itty bitty nuanced policy tweaks that pretend to solve problems that the party has no intention whatever of solving.
Unfortunately, the status quo is becoming increasingly unacceptable and the establishment can't preserve itself anymore without causing real pain to the majority of Americans so how this will end remains to be seen, but New Orleans is a pretty good leading indicator.
November 22, 2009 3:26 PM | Reply | Permalink
As cited previously, this one program by Moyers will remain endlessly fascinating in the years to come, irregards whatever decision Obama arrives at.
If Obama feels himself trapped as Johnson so obviously did, if he bases his decisions accordingly, we'll all pay the greater price.
This is why I feel that Obama's cool, no drama, dispassionate manner - at this particular point in time - will lead, in the least instance, to a muddled outcome, and ever more tragedy at the most.
Johnson was a scalawag for and of consensus. JFK and RFK were more genetically prone towards leadership and in that, were way out there in the months leading up to November of 1963 (hint - the scheduled coup against Castro set for 12/01/63). However, the Vietnam quagmire would definitely not have happened if JFK had not been killed.
So the damned scalawag took the helm forty six years ago today and the nation has paid an inordinate price as a result.
November 22, 2009 3:45 PM | Reply | Permalink
"However, the Vietnam quagmire would definitely not have happened if JFK had not been killed."
Which is why the most extreme Cold Warriors had him killed!
November 22, 2009 4:46 PM | Reply | Permalink
No, no, lees-man. There was no governmental conspiracy. But I appreciate your sentiment. A few members (as well as assets) of the CIA went rogue, conjoined with the Mob and the latter's knowledge of the scheduled coup in Havana provided immunity following the hit in Dallas.
Over a million government documents and a whole boatload of Kennedy papers (administration and otherwise) remain sealed until the year 2017. However, as Waldron and Hartmann have convincingly revealed, the very ballsy Kennedy brothers walked themselves into a boxed canyon during the six months preceding the assassination. These two authors have begun to make all of the pieces of an astonishingly huge puzzle fit together.
November 22, 2009 5:26 PM | Reply | Permalink
leesman here :)
I agree the hitmen were from the mob & rogue CIA. But the planning and the post assassination coverup were done at very high levels. Douglass's JFK AND THE UNSPEAKABLE is the latest update on all of this
November 22, 2009 8:08 PM | Reply | Permalink
Considering that JFK started Vietnam, why do you say it would not have been a quagmire?
November 22, 2009 5:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
Don't get me wrong; I am a JFK fan, but he made some major blunders: Cuba and Vietnam were the worst.
November 22, 2009 5:26 PM | Reply | Permalink
All that I've come to know over the decades leads me to only one conclusion: JFK is by far the most fascinating character in human history.
Fascinating as opposed to consequential, and as a consequence of his decision to lead us to go to the Moon, Kennedy put himself up there near the top of the list.
If we step back, way back and gather it all in, his family, the business dealings and underground machinations of his father, all of the family dynamics, his being born with a congenitally weak spot in his spine, all of his sicknesses, his insights in foreign/Europen relations while assisting his father when they lived in London early in World War II, his pursuit of British aristocracy - being enamored by those who survived and returned from the First World War, the fact that he was a social prima donna who would brook no competition wherever he went, his persistence following the sinking of his boat in the Solomon Islands, that he was very likely bi-sexual in orientation and could employ that very effectively (even in the White House) to charm the skirt (perhaps even the pants) off of anyone he wanted to, his chemical dependency - simply to be able to keep going given his adrenal disease, those whom he chose for his staff - two especially - his speechwriter and his Attorney General, the extraordinary decisions which he made during the Thirteen Days of October (where the advice of said speechwriter and Attorney General truly saved the world from anhiliation) and finally - all of the inordinate complexity of events surrounding his death, which make one wonder wheter extra-terrestrials were playing with us humans that day in Dallas.
J. Edgar Hoover had been all set to pounce and initiate an American version of the Profumo Affair. The Fates intervened it seems. He knew what was coming - and so, stood up in his limousine to wave to the crowds as it rode through Tampa a few days before Dallas - knowing that the Mafia was aiming for him.
His death let loose of something in us.
November 22, 2009 6:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
I just read a long piece about the Castro plot having been designed by the Eisenhower administration and Allen Dulles, et.al. The man who was writing the piece was "in the room," and apparently Kennedy said it was too far along to stop, and remarked that he would have to go to Guatemala to disarm all the people who had been practicing for the invasion, i.e., they weren't ABOUT to be stopped. And that he had told Dulles that he wouldn't order the Essex in to help--and he didn't. Kennedy figured that Dulles was counting on his rookie-stautus, meaning he'd knuckle. Kennedy took the blame for the fiasco, and fired Dulles. (Whose big brother was John Foster Dulles, Ike's CIA director, who was one evil sumbitch.)
So many of the mega-power-players are so incestuous throughout administrations.
November 23, 2009 10:52 AM | Reply | Permalink
That is very interesting Wendy. Where did you get that piece; I'd love to read it! Those Dulleses were truly toxic!
November 23, 2009 11:44 AM | Reply | Permalink
Crikey; it's taken me an hour to find it. I have that CRS disease, C'ville.
I'd been looking for days at what-powers-subvert-presidential aims; there is too much, really. Tons of documented evidence surfacing now that so much time has passed. Way too much CIA-pentagon skullduggery to NOT believe in the extent of it. I put some of it ,and lots of links, my long blog last night, pulled it due to spam yuckiness.
I have come to dislike those who call it "conspirabunk." If nothing else, at the very least the last 8 years proved we weren't wary Enough; who wants to believe in some of the darkest stuff? We ignore it at our peril.
That said, i also ran into s denverexaminer.com site, i think it was, claiming that JFK was assassinated because he wanted to share the US task for info on UFOs with Kruschev. Kewl! It's a two-bagger: We find out who assassinated him, plus we get to see that there IS actual evidence of UFOs in both countries! :-}
November 23, 2009 11:57 AM | Reply | Permalink
http://www.orwelltoday.com/jfkcubabaypigs.shtml
I am banging my head on the table...CRS, I forgot the link, c'ville.
November 23, 2009 12:58 PM | Reply | Permalink
Wendy this is not precise enough. John Foster Dulles was Ike's Secretary of State. Allen Dulles was Ike's and JFK's CIA Director until JFK canned him after the Bay of Pigs fiasco. Interestingly, LBJ selected him to be on the Warren Commission.
November 23, 2009 6:56 PM | Reply | Permalink
I think John Foster was Ike's Sec. of State; younger brother Allen was the Director of the CIA under Ike. I think.
November 23, 2009 8:57 PM | Reply | Permalink
That's correct.
November 23, 2009 9:01 PM | Reply | Permalink
He didn't start it. We were there in the 50's. He escalated but clearly saw it would go nowhere. Many responsible and nuetral scholars believe he would have withdrawn our troops from Viet Nam had he lived.
November 22, 2009 10:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
Douglass's JFK AND THE UNSPEAKABLE confirms this.
November 22, 2009 11:22 PM | Reply | Permalink
I call BS. Read the Pentagon Papers. JFK had every intention of escalating in Vietnam. He was interested in convincing the public to support the escalation. It is all there in black and white.
November 22, 2009 7:36 PM | Reply | Permalink
Not so - JFK moderated near the end (that's why he was murdered). He prevented nuclear war in 1962; he gave the American U. speech; he got an atmospheric nuclear test ban; and he issued a directive to begin the withdrawal of troops. The Cold Warriors in the CIA and Pentagon wouldn't stand for this. They considered JFK weak on communism and had him killed.
November 22, 2009 8:04 PM | Reply | Permalink
Zipperupus/tlees2 - - suggest you both read these three volumes (based largely upon previously declassified government docs):
Perils of Dominance by Gareth Porter, 2005
Ultimate Sacrifice - John and Robert Kennedy, the Plan for a Coup in Cuba, and the Murder of JFK, Lamar Waldron & Thom Hartmann, rev. 2006
Lessons in Disaster, Gordon Goldstein, 2008
Yes, there have been numerous, highly credible works indicating the high likelihood of there having been a conspiracy. But not one of them begin to approach the degree to which Waldron and Hartmann have fitted the pieces of an inordinate puzzle together.
Porter presents clear and overwhelming evidence that Kennedy was intending to withdraw from Vietnam, that McNamara was 100% behind it and as soon as the hit in Dallas went down, turned 180 degrees and got right on board Johnson's program.
Dan Ellsberg calls it "the most provocative and original reinterpretation of Vietnam and Cold War policy making to come along in a generation." I don't agree with the author's (very narrow) central thesis but the new information which he cites is breath-taking.
November 22, 2009 10:09 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'll put them on my list. I'm reading Jefferson Morley's OUR MAN IN MEXICO: Winston Scott and the Hidden History of the CIA right now. I just finished the updated version of John Newman's OSWALD AND THE CIA. You should also, as I've mentioned, check out James Douglass's JFK AND THE UNSPEAKABLE.
November 22, 2009 11:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yes, JFK did issue a directive calling for a phased withdrawal... in 1962. You have to follow the timeline. In 1963, Diem's regime was overthrown and the situation was volatile. Every reccomendation that came to Kennedy, every one, wholeheartedly backed the domino theory and the inevitable escalation of US combat troops into Vietnam to pacify the unrest. Only Galbraith was a voice of reason, but his voice was muted after the Diem coup.
Yes, history shows that Kennedy was reluctant to go "all in" due to his lack of confidence in the Diem regime and concerns over a broadening conflict conflagrating SE Asia. But... the papers show that he was going to decide on one of several possible reccomendations, and all of them called for US ground forces in Vietnam.
November 23, 2009 1:56 PM | Reply | Permalink
Au contraire Zipperus, "Kennedy's plan 'to withdraw the bulk of U.S. personnel by the end of 1965,' became official government policy on October 11, 1963, in the president's National Security Action Memorandum (NSAM) Number 263." (James Douglass JFK AND THE UNSPEAKABLE p.187)
November 23, 2009 6:39 PM | Reply | Permalink
You are such a pathetic fool. Keep repeating that "Clinton Surplus" line, maybe you can convince some other idiots to believe you. However, the pesky internet provides info like this:
http://www.treasurydirect.gov/govt/reports/pd/histdebt/histdebt_histo4.htm
from the US Gov itself, showing that the debt has INCREASED every year, including each year of Clinton's presidency. There never was a surplus, there never was a balanced budget. It's all right there to see, that is if you can read.
Oh, and it also shows that the deficit champ of all times is Obama, with almost 2 trillion in less than 1 year. Add in the costs of his proposed second 'stimulus', plus the health plan, and he will have doubled the entire debt in his first (and only) term.
November 22, 2009 4:10 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hey TCB, this is all outstanding Treasury debt including interest payments, right? Because there's no doubt that the total public debt has increased every year. It's also true that Clinton generated one annual budget surplus -- that doesn't mean the surplus was enough to cut the total public debt and interest payments, only that a surplus was created for one budget year.
Now we know he did this because the Treasury was, for a short time, able to stop issuing 30 year Treasury bonds, the most expense type of debt to raise and we know that even George Bush agreed that Clinton had created one annual surplus, which he argued should be returned to the people.
You're absolutely right, though -- it didn't bring down our total debt. To do that, the surplus would have had to have been either used to pay down existing debt (buy out bondholders on the open market) or invested in order to buy out bonds when they mature.
It's a comlicated issue but, for what it's worth, I think you make a good point but that people who point out that Clinton created one annual budget surplus (no easy feat) are also correct and how that did or didn't alleviate our long-term debt issue is another matter and one we can certainly debate.
-Mike
November 22, 2009 4:22 PM | Reply | Permalink
It is purely smoke and mirrors trickery for the government to claim to have a budget surplus, yet the total debt increases. This is because there are many items that are 'off budget' that still result in gov't spending. Not that I'm blaming Clinton, this is the way they do it, but at no point did we take in more money than we spent, which is how normal people define a surplus. Clinton benefitted from having a fairly fiscally conservative Congress of the opposite party, which usually results in less spending. Obama is burdened with a very free spending Congress of his same party, and he is also a big spender, so the debt is going to skyrocket over the next few years. Without a major change we will hit 20 trillion in a few years, and be facing economic ruin. Yet everyday I hear nothing but new plans to spend another trillion, and raise some other tax. Eventually this will end very badly, like it did for Carter (the last big spender with a big spending Congress of the same party - other than GWB)
November 22, 2009 4:56 PM | Reply | Permalink
I should also point out that part of what you said - that Clinton stopped issuing 30 yr t bills, is part of the reason for the deficit being reduced at that time: short term financing. This has a downside as well, when rates go up and you are forced to refi at much higher levels.
November 22, 2009 5:01 PM | Reply | Permalink
Interest rates have plummeted since Clinton left so anything refinanced wouldn't have been done at a higher level. Remember also that not issuing 30 years saved us money, the longer the duration the greater the expense.
Yes, some government spending is off the balance sheet. Some of it, like Medicare and Social Security is off because it's not real spending, it's a projection. The current expenditures, the checks written, are in the budget.
The big off balance sheet expenditure of the Bush years was Iraq (now on the balance sheet) but you're quite fair in pointing out that GWB is as big a spender as anyone.
I feel for you, Bulldog. You're a principled conservative (and quite thoughtful and friendly) but you've been let down by both parties.
November 22, 2009 6:41 PM | Reply | Permalink
I am also NOT disappointed in Obama.
I am disappointed in in the people who are now disappointed in him after stupidly expecting him to wave a magic wand and solve all their pet problems in flash.
Anyone who expected Obama to be a fighter as president did not do his/her homework on the man. Read his speeches, read his book, look at his track record from Harvard Law Review on. His MAIN cause has been compromise, getting people of different views to work together. A guy like Obama becomes president of a country roughly evenly divided between one party run by aggressive stubborn-as-hell unscrupulous hypocrite ignorance-worshippers, and a second party run by mealy-mouth flip-flopping feel-good utter cowards, what in blazes can you expect? That he will pour spinach down all the cowards' throats and turn them into Popeye with muscles bulging?
The U.S. Democratic Party of the last 10 years has been dominated by some of the most spineless wimps of all American history.
After barely winning the election in 2000 on popular votes, and much more barely losing it in the court-determined electoral college, these craven wishy-washers crumbled like wet noodles to support a tax cut for the rich based on sheer stupidity. Then they fell in like lemmings behind the idiocy of a "war on terror." Then in a crowning moment of supreme cowardice they rubberstamped the mad deceit-laden and incompetence-based rush into the quagmire of Iraq, an invasion breathtakingly obviously based on ANYTHING BUT the national interest and security of the country, and THEN sat on their quivering backsides and did not do a DAMN THING on Iraq EVEN after getting a Congressional majority in 2006.
Now Mr. Obama is supposed to snap his fingers like Dream of Jeannie and make everything all better again? A class room of second-graders would know better than that.
6 six years ago hardly anyone hear had even ever heard of Obama. Now he is supposed to be the most superhuman president of all time?
Folks, this is ridiculous. You want Obama to be a fighter, start fighting yourself and for something real. Stop this copy-cat crap about "supporting the troops" as if the chickenhawkshit of Bush and Cheney must be tolerated forever. Stop wasting a whole summer on utterly irrelevant tea-leaf-reading about what a slam dunk Supreme Court nominee did or didn't accidently or on purpose say or mean ten years ago. Stop juvenile sloganry about "hope" (for what, without doing anything?) or "change we can believe it" (WHAT F-ING change? oil change, spare change?). Stop ignoring the real problems of an oil-addicted something-for-nothing economy, a broken international security system, an education system starved of funding but smothered in political correctness, the asinine worshipping of digital gadgetry, the decadence of a cess-pool popular culture, the tolerance of incompetence and ignorance, etc etc.
November 22, 2009 4:13 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hell yeah. This too. I think some people really believed the messiah meme from the republicans and thought Obama would just magically change things. He is working his ass off doing exactly what he said he would do. And all the mewling here is just exasperating. I usually don't even bother to comment here but this post was too much to ignore. It was the same during the election though with many many people saying Obama could never win unless he acted exactly as they said he should and yet he won. I am betting on him not on the weak-kneed people who question everything without giving his admin a chance to fix the mess of 8 years 10 months in!
November 22, 2009 6:06 PM | Reply | Permalink
Our pop culture rocks, ptroub!
To be fair, a lot of Democrats were worried during the primaries that Obama was too conciliatory and we were told not to worry, this guy was from the rough and tumble world of Chicago politics and would kick some ass. We helped get him elected by a huge margin, by recent standards.
Honestly, I blame the "centrists" who take our party name in congress for most of Obama's problems but his critics from the left are well meaning, have a great point and deserve kinder treatment from you.
November 22, 2009 6:54 PM | Reply | Permalink
If "Liberals want an administration that is the left wing equivalent of the Bush-Cheney administration" they need the equivalent of Republican Party loyalty in Congress and the electorate, and they need to accept that after being completely ineffective for from 2001-08, years, they just one year ago managed to elect a fresher, more invigorating, more eloquent and more inspirational functional equivalent of George H.W. Bush. Whose admin., by the way, was not 1/10th the disaster for America that his son's was, and did not have to clean up after such a disaster.
"Critics from the left," look in the mirror, and see that Pogo was right.
November 22, 2009 7:40 PM | Reply | Permalink
What liberals want is leadership that actually believes in something and is willing to take some risk to stand for that something, rather than a bunch of lightweights who won't even defend themselves let alone anyone else.
That is the current state of the democratic party. Gore, Kerry, Obama, as well as the senators and reps--if they won't fight for or defend themselves, how can I think that they will fight for or defend anyone else?
November 23, 2009 12:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'd like this to be a stand alone post...
I very much agree w/ what you are saying.
I am not disappointed in Obama as much as I am disappointed the dems have been unable to pull together to push the left's agenda ahead better.
I am horrified to see my new party be so utterly w/o conscience.
I am disappointed to see that the dems are unwilling to confront lobbyists, especially the trial lawyers association, that appears to be untouchable. THAT probably pisses me off more than anything.
One man cannot do a complete overhaul of Washington in one year. Anyone who thought he could, deserves to be disappointed.
November 22, 2009 8:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
I was saying before the election that the only thing that could derail an Obama presidency were the Democrats in Congress.
And, if I was naive about anything, it was that I really thought the Democrats would have learned their lessons from the past two failures (i.e., Clinton and Carter) and given a Democratic president the support needed to pass a Democratic agenda.
November 22, 2009 9:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
He does not appear to be engaged nor have a connection any longer to the voters. While Palin stirs up the "lunatic fringe" he seems to have retreated to an offside seat in the bleachers.
November 22, 2009 4:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'm not disappointed in Obama, just "for" him.
The absolute chaos and corruption at every level of government cannot be undone. From government contracting to the big bank bailouts while little banks wither and die (to be swallowed whole by the biggies later).
It's a massive money grab, the people with the most want all the money. Just watch, the stock market will bubble (again) then burst, just so they can shave off what little any shareholder has left. This is probably orchestrated to cause fundraising problems in the next Presidential election
If Bernanke or Geithner have any conscience at all they will place a moratorium on consumer payments of any kind to any bank that has accepted bailout funds in order the "cleanse" their balance sheets. Why should I pay my mortgage if my bank won't lend to anyone, credit worthy or otherwise?
All I can hope for is that it doesn't get worse under his administration.
November 22, 2009 5:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
Time for a Josh Marshall-like Deep Thought:
How can "everyone" be disappointed in Obama if 49% of the people approve of his job performance?
Obama's difficulties are largely due to the magnitude of the problems he is tackling as well as the nature of the opposition, which has been even more insane than expected.
I tend to agree with Andrew Sullivan's analysis that Obama is playing a long game here. Expect the economy to start showing signs of life in the next six months or so as the Republicans sputter on uselessly. Once healthcare reform is passed, you can also expect a huge boost for Obama. And that's almost regardless of what it ends up looking like.
Bottom line: call me naive, but I think he's doing just fine and will be fine politically.
November 22, 2009 5:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
Could anybody seriously be surprised to find that Obama is a "conciliator?" Isn't that his "thing?" Red state-blue state-united states etc?
November 22, 2009 5:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'm not sure but what you're really asking is whether or not a decent, thoughtful person can succeed in American Politics, or whether one has to become like the "other" to defeat the other. I hope not, I really do hope not. It has been said too many times to count that a country gets the kind of government it deserves. If we deserve the caustic, crude, fright-mongers, then we'll get the caustic, crude fright-mongers. And if Obama goes down the way Carter went down, well, I would rather have a one-term Carter with a brilliant ex-presidency than a two term Reagan or George W. And history will judge him and Obama kindly, even if nervous progressives don't.
But don't expect he's neglecting the sins of the past administration. Eric Holder, New York City, an Open Court:-- there's a couple of shots across the bow of Cheney and the anti-Constitutional Republicans that will be most interesting to watch.a
November 22, 2009 5:37 PM | Reply | Permalink
People do believe he's decent and thoughtful but that isn't what they want in a President. They want him to deliver. They want to be able to answer that "are you better off...?" question in the affirmative. It doesn't matter how decent and thoughtful Obama is if your husband is out of a job, your kids can't afford college and you can't afford healthcare.
November 22, 2009 5:43 PM | Reply | Permalink
When KSM is acquitted in open court due to either lack of evidence (most will be excluded), or from inability to seat a jury, or due to the excessive delay in trying him, or due to misconduct (torture?), or the refusal to reveal top secret intell, or any number of other reasons that were the driving force behind the military tribunals, the price Obama will pay politically will be huge.
November 22, 2009 5:46 PM | Reply | Permalink
Fair warning: I just bookmarked this and plan to dig it out for you at an appropriate time.
November 22, 2009 6:26 PM | Reply | Permalink
Fine with me, I stand by my words. If the rule of law is followed KSM gets acquitted or charges dismissed. There are so many problems with this case I can't see how they get a conviction other than by jury misconduct, and that still leaves it open for appeal and reversal.
November 22, 2009 11:12 PM | Reply | Permalink
If that is true then the person that should get blamed is no other than bush himself...The things that occurred to make the case potentially unwinable, were done on his watch, under his orders.
If we have to send it to a military tribunal because it can't be won under our judicial system, because we did such unthinkable things to this man, what the emeffin' hell does that say about us and our precious system????
November 23, 2009 12:54 AM | Reply | Permalink
Well, for one it says that our system is not designed to handle international terrorists that are equipped like a modern army. These guys aren't your lone terror group, they function worldwide, have armies of men, equipped with RPG's, expolsives, and heavy machineguns. It takes the military to bring them down or capture them. The military is not a police force, they do not follow the same procedures. That's why in the past the gov't used military tribunals, and the Supreme Court approved.
November 23, 2009 7:22 AM | Reply | Permalink
Consider this also, we have great difficulty getting convictions against gang members and Mafia bosses. Why? Juries fear retaliation. Now, what is the likelihood a jury would feel that trying AlQuaeda big shots might set them and their families up for retaliation? What if suicide bombers attack the courtroom? Imagine the chaos, and the huge pr win for them if a trial has to be halted. They could claim they were more powerful than our justice system. If I ran AlQuaeda, a trial in NYC like this would be my dream come true.
November 23, 2009 7:51 AM | Reply | Permalink
"Well, for one it says that our system is not designed to handle international terrorists that are equipped like a modern army."
Oh right, the box cutters....you ARE kidding, right?
Furthermore, terrorism is as old as mankind, and does not require a full-scale war in response.
November 23, 2009 11:59 AM | Reply | Permalink
You have no idea how much you really piss me off here, bulldog.
You were among the chest thumpers who were so proud of Bush/Cheney being the really tough guys in their embrace of torture and indiscriminate kidnapping and detenttions and whatever else happened to catch their fancy. Real Jack Bauers, these guys! Bunch of despicable would-be heroes who showed an absolute contempt for the Rule of Law as their cowardly response to 9/11.
And you were right there with them, cheering them on. It is no wonder that you now have so little faith in the Rule of Law when you were so willing to abandon it at the first sign of trouble.
You are right that Bush/Cheney's traitorous refusal to abide their Constitutionally prescribed Oath has definitely complicated our ability to bring scum like KSM to trial. But to trial we must go, if for no other reason than to show that we are indeed a people who follow the Rule of Law. It is THAT important to wrest control of this government and this Republic away from the tinhorn, chickenhawk despots who so defiled our Constitution. It is THAT important to once again return to the Rule of Law.
The tough guy "heroes" of Gitmo and the Orwellian "Patriot Act" now cower and quake at the thought that KSM would be presented a fair trial. What fucking cowards! I have faith that we can survive even the severe insult Bush/Cheney (and jackass enablers like yourself!) have levelled upon our ability to seek Justice. It ain't going to be easy, but it's the only path we can follow if we care to ever stand tall as the progeny of patriots rather than cheap replicants of a Kiefer Sutherland TV character.
Cut the whining, bulldog, and get the hell outta' the way. There's real work to be done here in the Land of the Brave, and you snivelling cowards only get in the way as you continue crawling on your bellies looking for cover.
November 23, 2009 9:05 AM | Reply | Permalink
Gee, FDR used military tribunals to try German saboteurs. Guess he was just as evil as GWB? Another 'tinhorn chickenshit despot' that trashed the constitution? Even though the supreme court approved the tribunals in BOTH cases? Moron.
November 23, 2009 1:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
There was never any question that we would try the criminals who committed the first bombing of the WTC in a federal court - in fact, in the same court in which KSM will be tried. The crime in these two cases is pretty much identical. Yet, there is an incredible uproar from all the "tough guy patriotic chickenhawk despots" that this is unreasonable to consider in the case of KSM. The only difference here is that we first tortured the defendant and stripped him of his other rights in WTC bombing #2 for no other reason than it gave Cheney a sense of personal empowerment and probably good wood to boot.
Rather than acknowledge just how stupid you were in allowing Cheney to go all Jack Bauer, all you asshat "tough guys" now cower and whine that you really must convene the closest thing you can come to having a kangaroo court hearing of this case because your past actions have compromised the ability to try a case in Federal Court.
Collectively, your continued lack of respect for the Rule of Law says about all we need to know regarding your integrity on the issue of Justice and real patriotism. Yeah, some kind of real flag-waving heroes y'all turned out to be! "God Bless America," and all that, all the while ready to run for cover at the first sign of trouble. It is truly despicable and earns nothing from me but my utmost contempt.
November 23, 2009 5:08 PM | Reply | Permalink
I am not disappointed in Obama in the least. I am still in awe of his having gotten Healthcare Reform this close to passing in Congress. He IS a fighter, but he's fighting on a higher level - you can't see the punches he throws.
November 22, 2009 6:02 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yes, unless they have their heads in the sand. And yes, most people are disappointed even if they would rather have Obama in office than palin/mccain.
November 22, 2009 6:39 PM | Reply | Permalink
obama has reinvigorated a dying republican party with his weak style and republican light policies.
its a joke that the media pretends to give coverage to the cries of liberal,socialist etc.
everyone with a brain sees he is anything but a liberal/progressive.
and who with integrity could like him for that?
November 22, 2009 6:56 PM | Reply | Permalink
Sorry, MJ, this column is incomprehensible.
I am still filled with joy and relief to be free of the incompetent evil bastards that preceded this president.
Just one point : there is no more Wisecrack of the Day, dreamed up by Rove and spewed by President Knucklehead, expressly designed to rile up their political enemies.
I like the impression of coolheaded thoughtfulness and quiet hard work.
Remember : all the one-issue people that we expect Obama to oppose will get together in order to thwart him. This means he cannot take them all on at once.
Let the man work.
November 22, 2009 6:58 PM | Reply | Permalink
"And who is going to turn this situation around before we are in Jimmy Carterland?"
It does not seem likely to come from this administration. I would hope sincere progressives and liberals disassociate themselves as much, as completely and as soon as possible from this coming train wreck, because not only does it promise to be a disappointment, but it seems likely to take us down with it. The ONLY place where I have found Obama supporters from 2008 who are not disppointed and distressed in 2009, has been a few posters at TPM who patrol the threads and shout insults at the Obama critics. Their number has steadily declined as the passion of the disappointed and disenchanted critics have increased. Truly sad but clearly this has all been done by design. John Conyers said it best:
"the longtime Michigan Democrat said he was tired of the just-get-something-done attitude of Rahm Emanuel, and insisted that Obama had moved far away from being the "ardent single-payer enthusiast" he once was.
"I'm getting tired of saving Obama's can in the White House," said Conyers. "I mean, he only won by five votes in the House, and this bill wasn't anything to write home about. The public option is only available, which is the only way you manage cost and get some competition to 1,300 other health insurance companies, the only way he could have got that through is that progressives held their nose and voted for it anyway."
Asked if the president had shown enough leadership in the health care debate, Conyers facetiously wondered why Press would ask the question.
"Of course not, of course not," he said. "You know, holding hands out and beer on Friday nights in the White House and bowing down to every nutty right-wing proposal about health care, and saying on occasion that public options aren't all that important is doing a disservice to the Barack Obama that I first met who was an ardent single-payer enthusiast himself.""
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/11/19/conyers-rips-obama-emanue_n_363702.html
November 22, 2009 7:36 PM | Reply | Permalink
Obama is failing in his most important--arguably the ONLY important--duty of his presidency: to prevent the Republican party from regaining power and to neutralize them politically for as long as possible--hopefully forever.
Obama has been terrible so far. He's squandered enormous personal popularity, his legislative efforts have been inadequate failures and half measures (viz. stimulus bill and mortgage "bailout"), and he's sucked the oxygen from the legislative process with this ridiculous and beside-the-point months-long health care "reform," which is going to wind up being another pointless, toothless dogwater collection of programs that will help nobody (see mortgage bailout, above). Overall, I'd give him a D. It's the economy, stupid. Not health care.
Frankly, the most important thing he is supposed to be doing is de-balling the Republican Party, and all he's done is re-legitimize them. Disappointing isn't the word. It's effin' awful. He's got just a few more months to begin leading. If the Repubs take back the House, it'll be all-impeachment, all the time, until they take back the White House in 2012.
November 22, 2009 7:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yes indeed: Obama is about the worst Democratic president one could imagine, except for Hillary and all the other Democratic candidates, any of whom would have been less bad than any of the Republican candidates, any of whom would have been less disastrous than Sarah Palin.
I am not so sure about all-impeachment all-the-time lying ahead. Gridlock would be more likely I think, and gridlock empowers gridlock-breakers adept at teachable moments over a beer.
A possible silver lining is that the disappointed supporters wanting a fighter might have elected one, had the ranks of the greatest bunch of wimps in American history had one among them to elect. And it is not yet too late to produce some fighters (though you are correct that much time has been squandered already). In addition to backbone transplants for Democrats in Congress, Obama himself, while smarter and less stubborn than GW Bush, is like him in being young and inexperienced enough to learn from the mistakes of his on-the-job-training in the White House.
November 22, 2009 8:27 PM | Reply | Permalink
I don't know. Hillary would have been worse? Biden? Maybe so, but this Obama is so far removed from his campaign promises and rhetoric, it's hard to see. I am getting a lot of shit from Hillary supporters these days.
Of course he's better than any Republican, that goes without saying. The problem is, he's letting the Republicans up off the mat. His whole performance has just been so effin' poor. As for gridlock, Gingrich and the Repubs ran against gridlock in 1994 and won a huge landslide that GUARANTEED gridlock. Point is, if people are dissatisfied, they'll vote for the other guy.
November 23, 2009 7:33 AM | Reply | Permalink
Your post is scary, colleague, until we ponder who will run in 2012 for the Republican nomination ... consider who speaks for them now ...
Palin? Gingrich ? One of their TV clowns ? One of their Radio clowns ? One of their unelectable retreads ? Ollie North, maybe ? How about Haley Barbour ?
Maybe the electorate will fall for the old 'white protestant southern governor' wheeze.
How about Cheney or his daughter ? How about both of them !!
Cheney/Cheney '12 !!
Sick beyond expression.
November 22, 2009 8:36 PM | Reply | Permalink
obama does not know how to wield the sword in his hands. worse, he acts like he does not have one.
November 22, 2009 8:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
He has to consider who is backing him up.
In here it looks like a bunch of people headed off in all different directions, few of whom are willing to stick around to defend him.
Republicans at least have a core belief to keep them together : they all agree they DESPISE 'liberals' as defined by their bizarre categorizations. And they believe they should never stop throwing rocks at their enemies.
People that voted for Obama should hang tight and stand up for the man. Do it even if your pet issue is not the only thing the president is working on.
Rally, people
November 22, 2009 9:11 PM | Reply | Permalink
He has to consider who is backing him up.
those who voted for him want a leader. his operating principle seems to be: force me to do what you elected me to do otherwise i'll just go where to wind takes me. no, mr. president you lead based on the principles you ran on; people will follow you; people will support you; people will fight for you.
November 22, 2009 10:03 PM | Reply | Permalink
The president has not fixed the problems in the area that concerns me most ... he has had a year to do something about it ... he is busy with other things ... should I throw rocks at the man ?
His opponents in the area that concerns me most are extremely powerful, entrenched, with unlimited money. They will join with any and all other one-issue factions to oppose everything Obama wants to do until they are free to carry on exactly as they wish.
Take all the issues mentioned in this comments section and imagine Obama trying to move them all forward at once. He would face a vast opposition impossible to surmount. All the insurance companies, Wall Street, Hedge funds, AIPAC, Zionist Christians, the AMA ... you name it ... shrieking at full volume, making up outrageous lies, baseball-batting the bosses of all the news organizations ...
Would anyone be able to fight them all at once ?
The president's foes are organized and they will stick together even if they hate each other. I cannot ditch the president and let those bastards take over again.
November 23, 2009 12:20 AM | Reply | Permalink
Of cours it's possible to fight them all at once. You do this by leading and staking out the policy positions that you espoused when RUNNING for president, all of which are very popular. Where's the insistence that all Americans have the same kind of health insurance as Congress? Or, failing that, how about something simple for starters, like an expansion of Medicare to everyone, say, over 45, paid for by a tax on the wealthy? That would be far easier to pass than the white elephant he's applauding right now.
Where are the jobs creation programs? The REAL mortgage relief programs? The loans for small business programs? The green energy programs?
Obama shouyld just do an end-around the goddam Republicans with one budget reconciliation measure after another to enact a legislative program that actually pulls us out of recession. Where is it written that our "recovery" has to cost tens of millions their homes and jobs and health and dreams? Obama has done SQUAT.
November 23, 2009 6:29 AM | Reply | Permalink
He's a wimp MJ and that's always been true. How much of a wimp wasn't evident until he took office.
He won't stand up and fight for anything. That is clear. It is also crytal clear that the change he was talking about was himself. He allowed people to think he was talking about substantive, drmatic changes in our stinking, corrupt political system. Instead what we have seen in Obama is the supreme defender of the status quo no matter how rotten it is. The healthcare bill and Obama's shameful fawning all over the Wall Street crooks brings this into perfect forcus for all to see.
I don't think the left wants a left equivalent of Bush/Cheney. What they want is a strong leader who, when push comes to shove and a decision must be made, will favor the interests of the common people over the rich, the greater good over the special interests. Time and again he has shown himself to be the exact opposite.
Obama has demonstrated very clearly that for all his laudable personal qualities, strong leadership is not part of his profile and never will be. His weakness is that he is not a leader at all but a typical corporate DC Democrat more interested in getting along than fighting for the interests of the American people. Conciliator? I think that word is far too kind. He is a capitulator and an accomodater.
I am glad MJ, to see you finally get out of the cheerleading uniform and put the cards on the table for all to see since you have impeccable pro-Obama credentials. Far from being the change we all wanted to see, Obama has become a huge impediment to changing our corrupt governmental and political system.
November 22, 2009 9:37 PM | Reply | Permalink
Of course, compared to the Republicans he's pretty damn good!
November 22, 2009 11:11 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yes, but that's not exactly anything to write home about. Being marginally better than the worst ever is not exactly the sort of standard we should accept.
November 22, 2009 11:47 PM | Reply | Permalink
It's disturbing that this thread is such red meat to some people around here.
What's the difference between the character assasination you are practicing, and that of Glen Beck?
November 23, 2009 10:31 AM | Reply | Permalink
The difference is that we aren't making this shit up and Glenn Beck does! Obama is a weak and timid leader who is not only not leading the movement for any change, but who is positively doing all he can to strengthen the status quo.
November 23, 2009 12:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
To be disappointed would mean I had higher expectations. Hmmm. No, I didn't have higher expectations in Obama. I had higher expectations that if we built a 60% majority in both houses of Congress that we could move our agenda. It is clear to me that the problem we have is that there are too many DINOs.
What are the choices? 70% majorities? Minority parties to the left? Give in to the Republicans who can change the course of public policy with 50.5% majorities? Selectively remove DINOs, aiming mostly to move them to the left but admitting that some will fall to the right? I don't know.
It seems that 70% majorities are a pipe dream. Giving in the Republicans is a disaster. That leaves minority parties and selectively removing DINOs. Minority parties have never made much headway in American politics.
Time to select the DINOs who will fall.
November 22, 2009 9:43 PM | Reply | Permalink
"DINOs" should fish for Democrats or cut bait for the Republicans, agreed. But this may not have to be at the expense of the 60% target. How about shaming a slice of the other 40% into fighting back against the towering stupidity and ignorance-worship that has become the ruling ideology of a party whose early leaders such as Abraham Lincoln are surely spinning now at Einsteinian velocity in their graves? I've found the words "Sarah Palin" to be effective with a couple of my friends who are (or at least used to be) Republicans. Some "RINOs" or Repubs newly shamed into becoming RINOs could be converted to Democrats. Others might help push their party back towards some semblance of the integrity and common sense shredded under Reagan and obliterated under Cheney-Bush. The first achievement would help maintain the 60% majority, the second would allow for an Obama-conciliation 70% majority to be something better than the complete waste of time it basically is now.
November 22, 2009 9:59 PM | Reply | Permalink
The policies Obama has pursued haven't been all that different from those he ran on. So while it is perfectly reasonable to disapprove of those policies, I don't know that there are extensive grounds for "disappointment".
First, Obama ran as a conciliator and bridge-builder: "no red America; no blue America", etc. etc. And that's the approach he has taken. I don't know where in the world people would have gotten the impression that he was going to launch a barrage of highly partisan inquisitions into the misdeeds of the Bush administration.
Obama also supported a rather moderate health care reform program in his campaign - one that didn't even include a mandate. The one that is coming up is probably more progressive than the one he actually ran on.
He also promised to draw down in Iraq so that more resources and attention could be shifted to Afghanistan. And that's pretty much what he has done.
A whole bunch of Democratic voters seemed to have harbored secret hopes that Obama didn't really believe the things he was saying, and that he was really some sort of Stealth Kucinich. But he isn't any such thing. Instead, he is pretty much as advertised.
Nevertheless, I am disappointed in a few things:
Obama is supposed to be a great communicator. And I expected a much better, and more assertive communications operation from this White House. On the days when Obama is not making a big speech, his administration always seems to be playing defense and falling behind.
Like other recent Democratic political operations, they have a passive and overly-deferential attitude toward public opinion. When they find out that they slightly out of step with current public opinion, their first instinct is to say, "How do we have to change our position so that it is more in line with public opinion?" They don't ask themselves nearly enough, "How do we change public opinion so that it is more in line with our positions?" What is even worse, they constantly fail to exploit their edge when they do have public opinion on their side. When they're up 60-40 on something they act like they are down 40-60.
Obama has also shown surprising shortcomings in his ability to connect in a fundamental, emotional way with ordinary Americans. I thought he would be much better at that. He doesn't do enough to project the sense that the problems of ordinary people are uppermost in his mind. He comes off as way too friendly with Beltway, Wall Street and elite university technocrats, and is missing a populist note.
I also expected more of that "bottom-up" politics he talked about during the campaign. But instead, we have the same old rule by technocrat. He seems to decide what the policies are going to be within his own inner circle and in consultation with the powerful, and then he expects his army of voters to support them, no questions asked. He is not doing enough to listen to popular demands, and build policies that respond to them in a collaborative way.
And finally, I am extremely disappointed in the team he chose. I expected a more creative group, with a mix of new and old blood and some "new generation" thinking. But instead, we have a lot of old-school, 90's-style Third Wayism, and an approach to policy which is ... well, boring. So far, Obama seems oriented toward turning the clock back to the good old days in a "return to normalcy". I'm not seeing many signs that he is capable of responding boldly and creatively to new challenges.
November 22, 2009 10:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
As a Hillary Supporter. We did point out over and over that this would be the result of electing Obama.....
November 22, 2009 10:43 PM | Reply | Permalink
I think the results would be roughly the same. The structural problem is that the Democratic Party is afflicted with a general suckiness at the elite national level that puts it out of step with most of its actual members. I saw a group shot in the paper the other day of the Democrats' top leaders in the Senate. There wasn't a person in the picture about whom I would say, "I really kinda like that guy." In fact, while I wouldn't say I actually hate any of them, I did feel a certain level of almost physical disgust about each of them, as I do toward most of official Washington.
Clinton would have hired roughly the same crowd of DLC Third Wayers that Obama did, and made her pitch toward the middle in standard Clintonian fashion. And I suspect most Democrats would feel the same kind of disappointment right now.
The Party is still coming to grips with the fact that the Great Recession has pushed almost all of us further toward the left, and intensified desires for vigorous, even radical progressive economic reforms. But the leadership of the party is still in the hands of a neoliberal, Wall Street elite that opposes many of the things the rest of us want.
I feel better about some of the people in the House, especially those in the Progressive Caucus. And my opinion of Nancy Pelosi has gone up substantially. I'd love to see the all-out fightin' and fun that would occur if she ever got a crack at the presidency.
November 22, 2009 11:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
That far I won't go. I think we nominated the right person and elected the right person.
But I will say this for Hillary. She knows the right and hates it viscerally. Obama doesn't seem to.
In other words, she knows that extending a hand to bigots, thugs and fascists is always a sign of weakness.
November 22, 2009 11:10 PM | Reply | Permalink
This theory (about Hillary being steadfast against the "right") would suggest that her asinine vote for the Iraq blank check in October, 2002 was some kind of mistake or anomaly. Her evasions, denial and double-talk re that great betrayal, in the years since, put paid to that theory. It is far too early to even guess at whether a Hillary presidency would have been noticeably different in general, and better in particular, than the Obama administration will have been. In any event the speculation is a distraction. Hillary has joined Barack's team, is doing a not-bad job (a few blunders aside such as the backtracking on Israeli settlements), and the issue is how to, as you put it "turn this situation around" e.g. fight the Republican-hypocrites more effectively and accomplish significant reform in America.
November 23, 2009 10:17 AM | Reply | Permalink
Have you forgotten already how Hillary cozied up to the right wing during her campaign - Bill on Limbaugh's show and Hillary courting that PA newspaper whose name I have forgotten. That's just for two (and two of the many reasons I didn't vote for her).
That's also one of the reasons I am particularly disappointed in Obama. I thought we were getting something other than the Clintonian DLC conciliators and appeasers.
November 23, 2009 5:54 PM | Reply | Permalink
I don't think Hillary would have been much different. Slightly more liberal perhaps, but only a tad. They had virtually identical positons on everything except she was a lightning rod for all kinds of negative attention unlike Obama. Many who decided to vote for him did so simply because they thought it more likely for him to win as opposed to Hillary who had all kinds of heavy baggage.
November 23, 2009 6:04 PM | Reply | Permalink
The issue is not that we are disappointed with Obama, therefore we would have been better with a McCain administration (God, no!). It's that we have a lot of anger and frustration that built up over the 8 years of the previous administration, and now we want our pound of flesh. We want a kick ass, aggressive move to implement a progressive agenda, and correct the misdeeds of the Bush years. While I agree that a effort needed to be made to work in a real, bipartisan way to solve the country's problems, it is obvious that the Republicans have no desire, or intention, to work with the President on anything except more bombs and soldiers to war zones. We want to feel, and see by his actions, that he has our backs, and is willing to fight for these issues, not fold and give in at every resistance.
November 22, 2009 11:28 PM | Reply | Permalink
Liberals want an administration that is the left wing equivalent of the Bush-Cheney administration
bad assumption is bad.
most of the liberals I know didn't find Obama very liberal during the primary or election.
but, most I know didn't think we were activists for the DLC when working to elect Obama.
Most I know didn't expect such a coporate slanted administration.
November 23, 2009 12:39 AM | Reply | Permalink
Exactly. The argument that things would be worse if the Republicans had won is a preview of the Democratic fear-mongering we will see in full fight gear this summer and in 2012. Unlike the Republicans with marginal victories, the Democrats with their overwhelming victories cannot do because the forces arrayed against them are SOOOOOOoooo strong; fighting is also impossible because it will make the enemies STRongerrrrr, and turn off the Blue Dogs and the few independents not yet alienated. Besides not too bipartisan. Let the cool collected, ever so suave, wise leader work in his own way and then we will look over results after four years and then real heavy duty fear-mongering will begin.
November 23, 2009 9:07 AM | Reply | Permalink
I read all this and I think back to all the shit I had to take at TPM for pointing out what people here are just now seeming to realize. It was so bad that the "Report Abuse" button was put on TPM commentary because of it.
What really bothered me then was knowing that the wave of progressive energy and analysis of who we are and where we going, that anti-Bushism generated was going to be pissed away uselessly. That energy was probably the most positive thing that had happened in modern American politics and Obama was obviously just the establishment's lightning rod to carry all that energy harmlessly off into the ground.
That is what is happening now.
November 23, 2009 2:15 AM | Reply | Permalink
I thought you were wrong then and I think you are wrong now...
The whiners and snivelers are just impatient children who had and continue to have unrealistic expectations born of nothing more than their imaginations.
Obama never said change would come overnight, or that it would be easy. But come, it will. It has to. Or we are doomed. Patience, my friend. Patience.
November 23, 2009 2:36 AM | Reply | Permalink
I don't think there is any more "change" with Obama than the color of the president's face, which I admit is important... if he is perceived to be successful.
The "whiners and the snivelers" that you mention, just happen to be the people who got out and rang the doorbells and manned the phones and used the Internet to get Obama elected, so what you are really saying is pure P.T. Barnum, "Americana".You say:
I quote the master himself:
Do you think that things are going to ever really change now that the "whiners and the snivelers" are waking up and discovering they have been had.This is a tragedy. The best instincts of America's finest people have been manipulated and abused just to protect a miserable status quo. The resulting alienation is worse than anything Bush ever did.
November 23, 2009 3:23 AM | Reply | Permalink
Do you think that things are going to ever really change now that the "whiners and the snivelers" are waking up and discovering they have been had.
Isn't part of that just growing up? A lot of people get idealistically interested in a national political campaign in their youth, and then move on to other things. You know, you started posting at this site at the same time as a huge influx of people interested in the race came and just basically took over the site, it was such a "takevover" that many of us more long-time users interested in issues and news rather than horse race fled for a while to a temporary site. And a great number of them stopped posting here just as soon as the election was over. They didn't stay to talk about how Obama was doing. If you look at your old threads, I think you'll see a lot of names that disappeared soon after the election or even after he won the primary. But the people with permanent interest in politics are still posting over at TPMDC, they are not the ones doing it as a temporary fling.
You blamed this on Obama, and I agreed that his campaign manipulated it to some extent with his big rock concert type rallies, but when there's a charismatic politician running for president, it always happens, there are young fans, but they are fickle, and not too well informed, and they move on. I was one as a teenybopper for Gene McCarthy, my twenties were definitely spent doing other things than politics and reading news all the time--getting a higher education while working several jobs, starting a career, experiencing life. Some kids just do it as a social part of their lives, to meet other kids, that's mainly why I was doing it, all the cool guys with long hair were hanging out there. It's not particular to Obama, it's just that smart politicians know how to use it. They also usually lecture those kids to stay with them, to stay active in politics, but they don't get a good percentage return on that, just by the nature of how life is.
Do you really think young Obamabots are the first ones to come to politics idealistically and naively and become more cynical about the reality of politics and governing? Even the ones that stay in lose their naivete and change....Hillary Clinton was once a Goldwater girl.
November 23, 2009 9:38 AM | Reply | Permalink
This was like a children's crusade, so much hope, so much emotion... and it is sad to see that it has no real content finally. I think future historians (Chinese probably) will have trouble trying to figure what it was all about.
Here is a good article from the Guardian:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/nov/23/us-government-tax-reform-crisis
November 23, 2009 10:31 AM | Reply | Permalink
. . . policy paralysis around the US federal budget . . . the trend level of taxation (at about 18% of national income) is not sufficient to pay for the core functions of government. . . .
. . . dangerous level of budget deficits and government debt. . . .
. . . this fiscal logjam. . . .
. . . America, in fact, needs a value-added tax . . . .
. . . The budget deficits could continue to prevent any meaningful action in areas of critical need. Jeffrey Sachs
Jeffrey Sachs' recommendations are based upon a crude form of kitchen-table economics. The USG can easily support a debt-to-GDP ratio of 100% and probably, a good deal higher.
By continuing to mouth the conventional wisdom Sachs insures that Republicans (whose sole goal is returning to power) and Blue Dog Democrats will be able to continue to frustrate attempts to solve our problems.
Sachs is the worst sort of enabler.
November 23, 2009 10:59 AM | Reply | Permalink
wow, talk about off-topic, or maybe not.... :-)
November 23, 2009 11:04 AM | Reply | Permalink
That essay reads quite a bit on the hyperbolic side to me, though it does sound a lot like a few reader bloggers here in its "chicken littleness;" I really don't see "paralysis". Also strikes me that some pretty minor things can make you sad. I find sad what happened given to fans of Mousavi and the The_Green_Path_of_HopeGreen Path of Hope
November 23, 2009 3:46 PM | Reply | Permalink
P.S. From my vantage point as a long time reader of the site, you saw a lot of fans of Obama the man attacking you here and you read that as representative of the American body politic. What I saw was a bunch of passionate immature ill-informed Obama fans temporarily invade a site populated by a left of center bunch of American news and politics addicts. The latter wasn't that much interested in what the invaders had to say, even if they expressed support of Obama, and therefore stayed out of the fights you were having with them. When most of them disappeared, which again, was soon after the election, the regular interests of the audience resumed, and there was a more balanced reaction to your posts. I think you may be incorrectly reading all of this as representative of something larger than it is. For one example, remember that while this site may have been Obama central during the late primaries, Hillary was still showing she could be quite competitive among working class voters in the rust belt, that the whole country wasn't falling hook line and sinker for the "hope" routine and might have been mistrustful of some of Obama's traditional Dem bonafides. Once he was the candidate, though, what came through loud and clear was a desire for "change," especially among Independents, and that was their definition of change, not a liberal definition of change, possibly just: not George Bush, and yeah, maybe some thought a black guy with a cosmopolitan background and a professorial demeanor might be a nice surprising "change" statement to the world. Keep in mind that roughly 1/3 of the country are Independents and what they see and desire as "change" might be quite different than what liberals expect of the word.
November 23, 2009 10:32 AM | Reply | Permalink
OFF-THREAD P.S.: I just posted news on the 9/11 terrorism trials on your thread on Khalid Sheikh Mohammed thread which you may not have seen and which resolves a lot of the "what ifs" you brought up.
November 23, 2009 10:07 AM | Reply | Permalink
I read all this and I think back to all the shit I had to take at TPM for pointing out what people here are just now seeming to realize.
I thought you took a lot of shit for comparing Obama to certain notorious European fascists of the past, and also for getting into some very weird stuff about Obama's choice of a darker skinned black woman as his mate.
Your critique at the time seemed a lot closer to the teabagger nonsense than to the things MJ is talking about now.
November 23, 2009 7:15 AM | Reply | Permalink
I think Barack Obama is a very enigmatic personality and I would love it if he were really as left wing as the teabaggers think he is. As to his color, I would feel much more comfortable with him if he had the same genuine African-American background as his lovely wife Michelle. I still am not sure who he is. I think of his color as some sort of a disguise.
November 23, 2009 8:18 AM | Reply | Permalink
In my opinion, you are paying too much attention to his race.
November 23, 2009 10:13 AM | Reply | Permalink
I think in the USA is a "marker" for a very important participation in American history that of being descended from slaves. That is the important thing, not the color itself. For this to have been a truly, "healing" experience Obama would have had to be like Michelle, a family descended from slavery, always striving for something better against terrible odds. To be able to lay claim to all that baggage and heritage simply because of an East-African exchange student's romance, seems like getting a Phd from one of those mail order universities. No dues paid.
November 23, 2009 10:41 AM | Reply | Permalink
Oh, David...I can't believe you said that!
When black people are being discriminated against, no one asks first, uh, excuse me...are you descended from slaves? Or just from Africa, later? 'Cuz I'm only prejudiced against the ones that are descended from slaves...
I know you are not that ignorant.
You, David, are an acquired taste. I arrived here in July of '08 and wasn't sure what to think about you. It took me some time, but I learned to appreciate your point of view on a variety of subjects, and it has been quite a while since I have shook my head at something you wrote. Right now it's shaking so hard it's about to fall off.
November 23, 2009 11:01 AM | Reply | Permalink
Well said, Stilli!
November 23, 2009 11:15 AM | Reply | Permalink
I'm sorry you aren't comfortable with his heritage. Really this is just a bizaare comment, and I'll chalk it up to a generational thing...
That aside, MJ brings up a sentiment that many of us share, but I'm not going to go as far as the "I told you so" squad this thread brought out.
November 23, 2009 10:28 AM | Reply | Permalink
No I don't think it is just generational, I have studied race in America quite a bit and have done quite a lot of thinking about it. It is the central, inescapable fact of American existence and to be a genuine, dues paying, African-American is a very important thing and much more important than just color itself. It is history, folklore, suffering, enduring and struggle. You can't just walk up and claim that because your dad was an African exchange student. There are a lot of people with more white blood than Obama (Colin Powell for example) that can.
November 23, 2009 10:47 AM | Reply | Permalink
I'm still disturbed that you find it so comfortable as a white guy to sit there and judge Obama's blackness.
November 23, 2009 12:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
HIs color is meaningless. His policies are not.
November 23, 2009 1:19 PM | Reply | Permalink
being attacked on this site is a pain. I'm glad you survived it, and continue to thrive on this site.
Obama's most ardent followers here on TPM do him no service by alienating progressives and liberals for fighting for what they have always championed.
Liberals and progressives have been maligned by the corporate media and the GOP for decades now. We have thick skin. Conservative democrats (centrists, whatever you call yourselves) have no chance of getting under my skin.
I know how weak you are. How willing to fold. How quick to apologize. We all know where the real weakness is.
November 23, 2009 10:11 AM | Reply | Permalink
The Obama phenomenon goes beyond politics. He is someone that excites people's imagination, perhaps we are fortunate that up till now he seems "all hat, no cattle". Politicians with that kind of messianic charisma are often dangerous. I think that it is uniquely American that someone with so much capacity to excite and motivate should turn out to be a cipher.
November 23, 2009 10:22 AM | Reply | Permalink
I'm not disappointed in him at all. I try to imagine what the history books will say about his first term: breaking the back of the Great Recession via the unprecedented stimulus; setting a course for Iraq withdrawal, HCR, among other things. Having an intelligent, honest, since President has raised expectations so much that there has been a loss of perspective among his supporters.
November 23, 2009 7:14 AM | Reply | Permalink
First, the course for Iraq was set before Obama was elected, those agreements were in place for a long time. Second, the 'stimulus' did nothing but squander a bunch of money on liberal pet projects, it created few if any real jobs, despite the laughable claims of 600k jobs 'saved' (300k of them teachers!) Millions more people are out of work now. The recession is far from over, the markets are benefitting from a dollar carry trade - where people borrow dollars(which continue to lose value) at low rates and invest in other assets, like commodities. This is creating another market bubble and when it pops things will really get bad.
November 23, 2009 8:03 AM | Reply | Permalink
they wanted a fighter...Instead they have a conciliator
Well whoever "they" are, they are really clueless, because even if they didn't read his books or watch his debates or read his campaign white papers that would have told them that, they should have at least seen an Obama girl video or Saturday Night Live sketches where Obama's image (uncontested by his campaign,) was depicted as "king of cool." Not hot, cool. That's what they should have know they were voting for, and I must say I think that's what we are getting, he's doing that.
November 23, 2009 11:16 AM | Reply | Permalink
EXACTLY! So many of us were frustrated when he didn't "fight" harder both in the primaries and the general. It is not who he is. Often times it is the trait we respect the most, that also bugs us the most.
He is doing this HIS way. And although I, too, am disappointed in the pace, he is doing what he does, and I believe it will work. I am being trying to be patient with him and his process, and spend my efforts trying to get people to see how much danger our country is in because "we, the people" are sitting back and expecting him to do all the heavy lifting. It is just too much. It is too heavy. He can't lift it w/o our help.
November 23, 2009 11:29 AM | Reply | Permalink
Tiresome old "material." Come back with a new bit.
November 23, 2009 12:57 PM | Reply | Permalink
It's too early to tell. But I'm starting to fear it may soon be too late.
November 23, 2009 11:37 AM | Reply | Permalink
MJ,
How is it possible that after 1 admittedly disappointing year from Barack Obama you already state that he is the, "smartest, most decent President in our lifetimes?"
From where I sit, and this is just my opinion, Obama has a LONG WAY to go before he can even enter into the conversation about being a better leader than Bill Clinton.
Your post poses the question as to how the Democratic Party, supposedly full of the best, smartest, and most moral Americans, has managed to lose the leadership initiative so quickly? You actually answered your own question, but Bill Clinton said it best during the 2004 presidential campaign when he predicted Bush would defeat John Kerry. "Strong and wrong will beat weak and right every time."
The Republicans, as you surmise, are generally strong and wrong. At least that's the case when speaking of the Neocon-led Bush administration. But unlike you, I still happen to believe there are "real" Republicans still in existence who are not Neocons. It's easy and convenient to lump the two together and say that everyone in the GOP is a Neocon, but we all know it's not true.
The biggest problem facing Obama isn't even his own lack of aggressiveness. You mention his inability to cash in on campaign promises, but it's difficult when your colleagues in congress, Nancy Pelosi in particular, go Colonel Kurtz on us and disappear into the wilderness; completely drunk on her new-found power. Generally speaking, the American public is tired of congress. They hated it when the GOP controlled both houses a few years back. They hated it during the first part of Bush's second term when each party controlled a chamber. And guess what? They still hate it now that the Democrats control both houses.
Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi are not doing Obama any favors. For his part, Reid may very well be playing out the string on his congressional career. Pelosi isn't going anywhere, but she is a figure who is a much bigger liability than most Democrats realize (or are willing to publicly acknowledge). If Obama is having trouble reigning in the congressional leaders of his own party, it shows that perhaps his leadership abilities overall may not be sufficient. Intelligence, awareness, and charisma are positive traits, but none of them ensure that somebody will be a great president.
November 23, 2009 11:52 AM | Reply | Permalink
The smart conservatives aren't disappointed. Look what we've given them. A president who isn't getting change accomplished while at the same time providing the right wing with a "threat."
November 23, 2009 12:54 PM | Reply | Permalink
http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2009/11/why-i-remain-bullish-on-obama.html#more
November 23, 2009 3:30 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yes and the polls show it
http://www.pollster.com/
Overall Obama job approval
Approve - 49.2
Disapprove - 45.7
Obama approval on handling healthcare
Approve - 44.3
Disapprove - 48.0
Obama approval on handling economy
Approve - 46.3
Disapprove - 49.3
The wheels are coming off. Hard to believe this guy had approvals in the 60s 7 months ago
November 23, 2009 3:37 PM | Reply | Permalink
There are so many people who love him, why wont he fight for them? I don't understand this at all. Perhaps because he has come up in such a singular way.
November 23, 2009 4:01 PM | Reply | Permalink
I wanted a fighter, too. Which is why I was a Clinton supporter. OBama ran as a conciliator so anyone who is disappointed has no right to be. He is delivering exactly the sort of centrist government he promised. He pledged to put bipartisanship over principle and getting along over doing the right thing and that's what he is delivering...so suck it up. That's what you chose.
November 23, 2009 4:32 PM | Reply | Permalink
I agree MJ and the fear of him becoming an ineffective president gives me the creeps given the "alternative" in the crazy Republican side. It is disappointing and frustrating to witness how this president does not seem to be putting up a fight. I am part of "his base" who voted for him in the primaries over Clinton and went out to help. What is frustrating is that Obama thinks he can ignore his base (thinking that we are going to work for him no matter what) but I am not willing to give him another dime or a second of my time until I see results or at least some effort to fight for what he campaigned for. Ignoring his base while trying to appease those who choose to believe that he was born abroad is sure a road to losing in 2012.
November 23, 2009 7:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
(Am gonna include this in my next letter to the WH.)
November 24, 2009 1:45 AM | Reply | Permalink
Some seem to be writing a script of either nice guys finish last (or don't even get started) or don't get a second term. There is a balance between words and deeds but where it is placed on the political scale varies vastly among the populace. Obama could be doing better but it would be a whole lot worse with McCain and Palin. There's probably even a greater disappointment with Congress which sometimes forgets that it's harder to keep greater numbers together when your party is in the majority. The biggest problem with public perception is that all too many think that the only thing their member of Congress (or somebody eles's if theirs is special) stands for is for re election and in line for the money from special interests to stay in Washington.
November 23, 2009 9:31 PM | Reply | Permalink
The best we ever could have realistically hoped for (given the media and our own compromised party) was to elect someone who was slightly lefty, and then get on his case to get the things we want. Seems like we are just waking-up, we didn't get the champion we hoped for. Time for us to go back to work, I guess. It all ain't about elections, ya know. And, Barrack sure ain't gonna pull the train by himself.
November 24, 2009 1:41 AM | Reply | Permalink
November 24, 2009 1:53 AM | Reply | Permalink
Way to elevate the conversation, dude. You've brought your previous posts down even further.
November 24, 2009 12:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
well, I'm certainly not disappointed in Obama. I think we get pretty much what I expected. Sure, like everybody, I sometimes entertained a wild hope that he would surprise me positively. That does happen, rarely. But I knew that I was just daydreaming, like about winning the lottery.
We didn't win the lottery. we got exactly what we paid for when we bought the lottery ticket, a short license to dream that life could be different, until reality reasserts itself.
What is disappointing for me is reading post after post here, including MJ's original, analyzing the issue as Obama's personality or style, or discussing which leading candidate would have been better. That's pathetic, it's like agonizing over taking the lottery ticket ending with 34 instead of the one ending in 77.
Obama is president because he convinced the power structure, the wall street funding base, the political commentariat, etc., that he would deliver them. Most crucially, that he, with his "community organizer" horse manure, is the best person to save US capitalism from the growing anger that is building up against it. And he does exactly that. He's saving wall-street's bacon. He's managing our anger. He's saving the insurance industry from reform. He's saving the war industry from the anger thatwasbuilding up against ity during the Bush years. He is demobilizing liberals. He is depoliticizing those who been recently politicized. He is doing great! This is the way power works. You want it to be different, you need to build a different power.
There is no shortcuts. We are in Afghanistan because we are ruled by the military-industrial complex. Hillary, Biden, Gore, nobody will do squat about that. They can't stand up to it for the same reason you can't stand up to train.
We are bailing out wall-street because we are ruled by wall-street, not because Obama is a patsy. If he weren't a wall-street patsy, he wouldn't have been electable in the first place. That's the rule. Look, Kucinich isn't a corporate patsy. He proved it by obstructing privatization to the point of losing his job as mayor. That is why he is not going to be president. Why didn't you all stuff envelopes and rang doors for Kucinich? You didn't do it because he wasn't electable and he wasn't electable because he isn't a patsy of corporate America.
November 24, 2009 10:44 AM | Reply | Permalink
You were warned.
--Barack Obama, The Audacity of Hope 2006.
And I think you didn't listen. In a lot of your writings here, it seemed to this reader that you didn't listen to his policy views, you projected. You also seemed more concerned with the color of his skin (and the response to that of others, like some American Jews,) his oratorial talents, and some imagined likeness to 60's figures like RFK and MLK, than his actual published beliefs about policy and government.
Here, for one example, is Goldberg's May 2008 interview with him on Israel, (which you yourself recommended to TPM readers here,) in which he expresses strong pro-Israel sympathies, both personal and political, confirms that he believes Hamas to be a terrorist organzation, and recounts telling Ramallah youth that his and America's committment to Israel's security is" non-negotiable." In your writings here, more than once, you implied that, like later with his speech to AIPAC, he just said this type of thing for political expediency. But he warned you in that interview that his committment to Israel was more than skin-deep and it’s more than political expediency.
To this reader, you often seemed to be ignoring what he said and instead projecting your views on him. Just as you sometimes do with other articles you cite, you pick something out and project your own views on it, and when the reader goes to look at it, they find it doesn't say what you say it says at all.
November 25, 2009 8:12 PM | Reply | Permalink
Tsk, tsk, Appie...the finger-wagging does not become you.
I voted for and supported the man because he's able to sit in the middle of a discussion and not only weigh both sides but actually agree with them.
He's also got some handy friends.
My major point of contention with Obama is his choice of an economical team (Geithner, et. al.).
November 25, 2009 8:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
Well I am disappointed.
I supported him from the beginning. I thought he might be an outside the box thinker who might possibly see the fundamental flaws in our conventional thinking. I mean he loves Jane Jacobs. I knew it might be a risk but he had real potential. And frankly I couldn't stand the idea of Bush, Clinton, clinton, Bush, Bush, Clinton. Besides I knew her economic team and was not impressed. I didn't expect O to use the same people.
I was wrong. Sure he is better then the alternative, I guess. The rich are still getting richer, and the poor are still getting poorer. I am so blindly angry about babying wall street and blowing the opportunity to do the stimulus as a massive green build program (seriously cash for caulkers with a 200 billion plus budget would put a serious dent into unemployment. Homebuilders would hire millions tomorrow) Shit the energy savings alone would pay for it inside a decade. There was so much potential and what did we get? 70 billion for the AMT? a tiny middle class tax cut and and extra 25 bucks a week in UI.
That opportunity came once in a lifetime. They blew it.
He can't even close Gitmo. wtf? its a few hundred guys.
November 25, 2009 8:30 PM | Reply | Permalink
I truly think he does think outside the box.
The problem is the box.
November 25, 2009 8:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
No. We can blame the box for the wars and the poor Health care bill. But not torture, not detention without habias corpus, not the bailout, not the lack of financial regulation, or accountability for the crisis.
He synthesizes both sides of our conventional wisdom and is lauded as brilliant. That is not thinking outside the box but describing the sides of the box. What is clear is that he lacks imagination. That is a tragic, the opportunity was there.
But hey we are stuck supporting this gutless mediocrity and hoping he will mature or something, for the alternative is neigh unthinkable.
November 25, 2009 9:32 PM | Reply | Permalink
It goes both ways, though, Sal. We, too, lack imagination.
Or guts.
Or both.
I still say he's doing the best he can, with all the constraints on him. And I still prefer him over anyone else right now.
Can we all at least be thankful it's him right there, right now?
November 25, 2009 9:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
No. We did our part. We just chose the wrong guy.
Sure you can make a case for the system only allowing safe choices, but he wasn't tied to the system. His strength came from being outside it. I mean law professor, state senator only 4 years ago, he wasn't corrupted by it- he didn't have enough time. That was the chance he represented. He has chosen to embrace the system, and its corruption.
No he is not doing the best he can. If he closed gitmo and stood for human rights (habias corpus again) that would be something, but he fired the guy who was working on that. There really is no excuse on this. This goes against our fundamental beliefs as a nation. Torturers walk free, those that lied us into impossible wars have nothing to fear for the hundreds of thousands they have killed.
If he used his great speaking abilities to discuss the bailout, and what went wrong with the economy and how we need to change it. If he used it to educate all of us on how we can make it better then yes I would say he is doing his best. Hell if he listened to Volker and reinstated glassseagal and nothing else, I would say he is trying. But nothing. No prosecutions of the criminal AIG finacial unit that cost us 185 billion. No breakup of the biggest banks we still own (bofa, citi), no slap on the risk for anybody at all. And no jobs.
Or if he used the crisis to fund a massive green rebuilding effort and made reducing oil dependency and climate change the cause celebre of his presidency, then I would cut him some slack. He says the right things, but he doesn't back it up.
He is not doing any of this. He parses the status quo and chooses the 'safe' path. He is not leading. And no I am not thankful its him, because I believed in him. If we are going to have a deceitful mediocrity (and on human rights he has lied to us), then I would prefer someone who didn't break my heart. However his election does prove that we aren't racist after all, and as cynical as that sounds, that is something. but I care about class more.
But yes the alternative is unthinkable, and its great that we can have liberals hired in the lower levels of gov again (a very big deal in my book), however the trendlines are not good. America's economic stratification is accelerating. It is not becoming a better place, nor a beacon of hope for the world. He didn't even condemn Iran. WTF? I am all for talking to our enemies, but they are killing thousands of young idealists right now.
Progressives have lost a historic opportunity. I know we are supposed to have hope but I can't say that this is what I expected. I want my money back and the time I donated. Maybe the second term? but I doubt it. He has shown his true colors- he just wanted to be president he is smart, but he doesn't know how to lead.
November 25, 2009 10:36 PM | Reply | Permalink
I think many of us forget that Obama is just a man.
And many of us forget that we are a country of big government.
You could put an absolute saint in office in this country today, and he couldn't get any further than Obama has, without being killed already.
I supported him and voted for him because I knew he could steer our Titanic slightly left of the glaring iceberg to our right.
Yes, I wanted miracles on top of that. Yes, I want Cheney strung up by his balls. Yes, I want labor and unions to be the focal point, and vocal point, that lead our economy towards green jobs or any jobs that gets us jobs.
Would Hillary Clinton or John Edwards do better? I don't know. Would Kucinich? That point is moot.
We voted left, we're steering left, and for me, that is enough.
November 25, 2009 10:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
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