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How Afghanistan's Fate May Seal Our Own

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An essay just posted in Dissent notes two ominous ironies in Gen. Stanley McChrystal's demand to add a virtual War on Poverty to his counterinsurgency strategy in Afghanistan.

First, it seems that this warrior-monk discovered "soft power" while on a National Security Fellowship at Harvard's Kennedy School in 1997, a decade after Barack Obama moved from community organizing to Harvard Law. (He graduated in 1991, when McChrystal was coming off Desert Storm.)

This means that while the general knows warfare better than the President, the President understands soft power more deeply. The question is whether Afghanistan is the place for a meeting of minds - and if so, with what balance of butter and guns.

The second irony is that advantages of "butter" have just been discovered by McChrystal's Dickensian neo-conservative heralds (Dr. Maximum Boot, Sir David Donnybrooks, etc.) -- and never mind that, unable to contain their partisanship, they still write as if they can't wait for Obama to rebuff McChrystal's demands so they can accuse him of betraying the country.

These jingoists, who have suddenly become such doe-eyed idealists about organizing the people that they sound like Hugo Chavez, bear a lot of responsibility for the United States' present incapacity to do for Kabul what they kept it from doing for New Orleans or Detroit.

Thanks to them and the politicians and policies they've supported, the big new swamps of rage and despair that need draining are here in America, not only there in Afghanistan. The enemy is among us and within us, at Fort Hood and in a generation pitifully unfit for military service, according to retired generals John Shalikashvili and Wesley Clark, who actually held a press conference last week to warn that 70% of potential recruits are too over-weight and/or too under-educated to serve. Indeed, the enemy is us.

Footnote: Far be it from me to credit Harvard, that bleak citadel of global management on the Charles, with an understanding of counterinsurgency more sensitive than Yale's. But things don't turn out well for Yale grand strategists who boosted Bush's gratuitous militarism in Iraq and learned even later than McChrystal that we can't advance democracy while destroying our own economy and polity. Read the Dissent essay and laugh, or cry.


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This is a good piece. To pursue the Yale vs. Harvard question (I am a Columbia grad), I have visited friends at both schools. In the abstract, I would expect Yale to be the better place for questions such as this, if only because it seems more interested in scholarship, while Harvard is more interested in access to power.

It would be interesting to see you expand upon the contrasts between the two schools.

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Once again, the inane and self-satisfied bozo Jim Sleeper has absolutely no idea what he's talking about.

...this country probably can't do for Kabul what it couldn't for New Orleans.

And why not? Sleeper doesn't really bother to get specific, because for him "Afghanistan" is just a word, and his concern for the human beings who live in that shit-hole is zero.

But meanwhile even the New York Times, which has a tiny and more or less immobile staff in Afghanistan, all of them semi-permanently hunkered down in a bunker in Kabul...

Even the New York Times has finally noticed that direct aid to local organizations at the village level in Afghanistan can produce astonishing benefits for the Afghan people for a micro-fraction of what anything similar would cost in New Orleans or anywhere else in the United States.

Small grants given directly to villagers have brought about modest but important changes in this corner of Afghanistan, offering a model in a country where official corruption and a Taliban insurgency have frustrated many large-scale development efforts.

Not so here in Jurm, a valley in the windswept mountainous province of Badakhshan, in the northeast. People here have taken charge for themselves — using village councils and direct grants as part of an initiative called the National Solidarity Program, introduced by an Afghan ministry in 2003.

Before then, this valley had no electricity or clean water, its main crop was poppy and nearly one in 10 women died in childbirth, one of the highest maternal mortality rates in the world.

Today, many people have water taps, fields grow wheat and it is no longer considered shameful for a woman to go to a doctor.

We may not be able to build what any of us would recognize as representative democracy at the national level in Afghanistan, but we can build a heck of a lot of dams, schools, hospitals, roads, houses, and provide basic medicine and education for a tiny fraction of what the same services would cost in New Orleans or elsewhere in the United States, and Jim Sleeper's thoughtless assertion that we can't afford it is just as stupid as anything George W. Bush ever said about the godforsaken wasteland of Afghanistan.

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Hurray, the Great TPM blogger Extraordinaire Blue Boy, blogging hero of the Fire at Chardarah, story teller of Detroit Demolition Disneyland and Pretty-Man Obama has more than zero concern for the residents of the 'shithole of Afghanistan'!! And that is not the end, Blue Boy is not a Bozo!

We can build stuff there! According to Max Boot though we have to keep one eye out for crooked government leaders and of course another eye out if any are left so our Afghan colleagues we are training don't kill us why we are off duty like they did with five British soldiers last week.

Blue Boy cares! Except for the ones who drive lorries of petrol who get beheaded by the Taliban. Except for innocent Afghans and Pakistani's who get blown up or burned to death by the Taliban or for the US or NATO troops who run the risk as human fodder for Taliban IED's daily, not a mention that those sacrifices which have been going on for 8 years.

We can do it, and for a 'micro-fraction' of repairing New Orleans! It will cost less in Afghanistan even though they blow up Americans there and slaughter UN employees in their beds in Kabul! Blue Boy says it is so.

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Max Boot, Late October, 2009:
Given what I saw and heard on my visit, I believe it is indeed possible to get Afghanistan’s politicos to do a better job — you just have to watch them closely. That’s what soldiers from the Third Brigade, 10th Mountain Division, are doing in Baraki Barak, a district of Logar Province south of Kabul, under the command of Lt. Col. Tom Gukeisen.

...and now it is revealed after 8 years, hundreds of Americans dead and $600 billion plus! Watch 'em closely, oh and look out for the IED"s too boys, Max forgot that one!

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I'm neither a Yale, Harvard or Columbia grad. It's quite impressive to observe all of these elite schools extending their opinionated bull shit into the realms of reality, but "theory" doesn't apply to tribal areas. I've read that Afghan loyalty extends to the end of a valley. Show me a grain crop that sells at a higher price than opium! I, nor millions of other Americans, have any desire to "adopt" a citizenry that is fully adapted to orphan-hood!

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We hear a lot about what this American or that American thinks of the Afghanistan war.

What do Afghans think of Americans being in their country ? We hear very little about this.

I saw an Afghan fighter on TV saying that he had been trained by the Americans but that now he was with the other side.

He said, wide-eyed, that he had seen alcohol consumed, prostitution and other vices practiced ... He was clearly shocked to have witnessed these things.

Americans eat pork, shoot civilians, gamble, consort with prostitutes, view pornography, drink alcohol and are apostates. Moslems are also shocked to see women soldiers.

I have not seen, except rarely, Afghan soldiers with Americans on TV. I think the Afghans working with the Americans are reluctant to be seen doing so.

Our soldiers are rightly respected by US citizens. But we never hear what Afghan civilians think.

Do any of you, colleagues, wonder about this ? Do you think it should enter into our calculations of how to proceed ?

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It's an important question, Brian, but you will hear a variety of answers, in part because Afghan public opinion is not monolithic, and in any case is not always shared candidly with foreigners. Certainly, some Afghans are bitterly opposed to the presence of U.S./NATO forces, but the overall impression I get is one of ambivalence.

No single voice can speak on this topic with complete authority, but one I respect is that of Ahmed Rashid, who discussed this topic recently on NPR. His views deserve respect, because he is a native of the region (he's Pakistani), has spent much time in Afghanistan and Pakistan during the past 30 years - far longer than most other commentators - and is an expert on the Taliban, having written a few books on the subject as well as having lived among the Taliban at one time in the past.

According to Rashid, many Afghans are wary of Americans but don't hate them. What troubles them most is the fear they will be caught in a lethal crossfire between U.S./NATO and insurgent forces, and don't wish to be bombed by either side. On the other hand, many would welcome security we could provide against Taliban oppression - not a surprising response considering how widely the Taliban are hated and feared by many Afghan civilians. What these Afghans would hope is that we stay long enough to provide security until indigenous forces can replace us. What they fear is that if they ally themselves with us and we leave too soon, the Taliban will exact a cruel revenge upon them for their alleged acts of treason.

The Taliban themselves are not a single entity. The ideological fanatics are a minority, while the majority are ordinary Afghans who find it necessary to side with the dominant faction in their region. It is the latter group of Afghans whom we might hope to wrest away from the fanatics if we can provide not only security but the promise of a decent standard of living.

Without question, all Afghans want us to leave, but many would say "not yet". We should adapt to ongoing events in order to hasten the time when they and we will both wish to say, "yes, now."

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Ambivalence doesn't get it, Fred! I've got loved-ones in the military and I don't give a shit about the civility of Afghanistan's population. Nor will a gas pipeline improve my standard of living! I do know that treasure and the lives of my fellow citizens are being wasted on a culture that I hold in contempt. I don't deny their right to exist and flourish. Just don't expect me and mine to pay and die for their culture! Fred...Do not over-intellectualize your opinions. They, basically, offer nothing of value. The Afghans will have to deal with their fellow Afghans...As they have for thousands of years. I will make one biased statement: You can't turn shit into ice cream!

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Ahmed Rashid works as a consultant with the central command, he is expected to say the right things. He was also advising Cheney on regular basis.

Since both the Central Command and Cheney were unable to come up with any coherent policy or strategy in dealing with the situation in Afghanistan, we can safely assume that Mr. Ahmed Rashid and his recommendations, if any, were not worth the paper they were written on. He should really pay up for the free lunches Cheney fed him.

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That betrays a strong ideological bias. Rashid has been addressing these issues for decades and has been consulted across the political spectrum because of his expertise, not his political views.

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"The enemy is among us, at Fort Hood and in the pitiful unreadiness of our young for military service."

I agree with what led up to that professor. There certainly are swamps of despair that need draining at home and I honestly can't get behind social spending in Afghanistan while we got inadequate economic stimulus here at home, with unemployment climbing, foreclosures still on the rise and a health care plan that seems at least inadequate to people's needs.

As for the readiness of our young for military service -- I'd posit they're as ready as they ever were but are perhaps more wary of joining up given the misuses of the military in recent years.

It's really not unreasonable for Americans to ask the government to spend here first. But let's not criticize the young. They're well equipped. This generation is easily as good as any other. Heck, they all are.

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Never, in the history of the U.S. military, have our forces been better trained or equipped! I agree with your position relative to the focus of our resources, but to imply our young people are not the most proficient killers in the world is a falsity. We are the CHAMPIONS!

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You're blind to yourself, trotter. Forty years ago, as a member of the Fourth Infantry, I received quite an education regards equipment and training and this paled in comparison with something far more important. It is the quality of leadership as oppossed to one's tendency to equivocate that perplexes me.

Presently, I deal with another branch of the armed services and it nauseates me to watch, have to deal with mincing colonels - who haven't an iota or an ounce of ability in leadership. As the saying goes: nothing but glorified clerks!

Oh for the days of John Paul Vann, Anthony Herbert, Charles Krulak, David Hackworth and Andrew Bacevitch - the latter whose words find no resonance anywhere near that Oval Office of Equivoaction.

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John:
I may not be so "blind" as you may think. I have a son who is a Lt,Cmndr and a son-in-law who is a Major...Neither are impressed. They are kids and they are not blind! The military will, soon, lose both of them. They are nor tolerant of politics, incompetence nor ignorance! I'm blind, huh? My time in the Navy was of dealing with drunks and misfits. Most of them would have wound-up as street people. You may be dealing with "good soldiers" but, yes, I may be blind to them! Now, if you want to talk numbers and statistics...I'll kick your ass!

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Destor23 --

If you would read the Dissent essay that occasioned this post, you would see a reference to the press conference which McChrystal's predecessor as NATO commander, Wesley Clark, and others gave last week to warn that the unfitness of 70 percent of American youth for military service has become a national-security issue. They blamed, poor education, junk food, and a lot of things that have to be put at the doorstep of extreme free-marketeers.

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I like to read your longer pieces over the weekend with leisurely coffee. I'll check it out.

In the meantime a question for you: does it matter that 70% of our young people are unfit for military service? I put it to you that: 1) That's what boot camp is for. 2) Fewer than 70% of young people want to join the military anyway.

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...McChrystal's predecessor as NATO commander, Wesley Clark...

First the idiot Sleeper asserts that the US can't significantly rebuild Afghanistan, on the basis nothing except his own total ignorance, and next...

Just to prove that he can't even get the simplest facts right about anything connected with that godforsaken country...

Now Sleeper claims that Wesley Clark was Stanley McChrystal's predecessor as NATO commander.

In fact, Stanley McChrystal has never held the same office with NATO as Wesley Clark, who was Supreme Allied Commander Europe (SACEUR) from 1997 to 2000, and...

Wesley Clark never held the same office as Stanley McChrystal, who is currently Commander of the International Security Assistance Force (ISAF) in Afghanistan. Wesley Clark never served in Afghanistan at all, for the excellent reason that he retired more than a year before we invaded.

So why is it supposedly okay to spout absolutely ignorant bullshit about Afghanistan, where Afghan civilians are dying every day along with our brave soldiers in the field?

Afghanistan isn't a joke, Professor Sleeper, or just another load of the same inane academic noise that provides you with an unearned living at your white-bread college.

Afghanistan is a real and desperate place with real and desperate people dying in it every day, and if Jim Sleeper can't be troubled to get anything right about it, he should just shut the fuck up.


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You're wrong. Wesley Clark was a former NATO commander, and his combat experience and sophistication equal McChrystal's. Nowhere did I suggest that Clark had served in Afghanistan, but it is McChrystal who has acknowledged that he took on that assignment in nearly complete ignorance of what he was getting into.

Your message is basically the howl of someone who's in denial.

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Do you even know the meaning of the word "predecessor," you dimwitted twit, Jim Sleeper?

...McChrystal's predecessor as NATO commander, Wesley Clark...

Sleeper is too fucking ignorant to know that Clark was never McChrystal's "predecessor" in any command, McChrystal was never Supreme Allied Commander Europe (SACEUR) and Clark was never Commander of the International Security Assistance Force (ISAF) in Afghanistan.

And the ignorant chump Jim Sleeper is even too dishonest to admit that he got the order of command completely wrong, like everything else in his stupid, careless, and shallow rant about Afghanistan, and so he responds with yet another load of bullshit about Wesley Clark's "combat experience," as if that were the issue.

Maybe at your white-bread college you can pull that crap on a room full of sold-out little suck-ups who want to grow up just like you, but it doesn't really sell where nobody depends on you for a grade, and here it's obvious that you're nothing but a shallow, dishonest jerk-off who should shut the fuck up about life and death issues like the war in Afghanistan.

The United States can still do a lot of good in Afghanistan, and create some very useful infrastructure at the village level, for an amount of money that would be a joke in the United States, as illustrated in this New York Times article which I linked above.

But Jim Sleeper is too busy shilling for his useless article in Dissent to take the time to actually learn anything about infrastructure in Afghanistan, and if anybody calls him on the sort of factual errors that nobody would make who knows fuck-all about the American occupation...

Then this dishonest clown Jim Sleeper adds yet another layer of bullshit to his worthless post, and moves along to his next ignorant pronouncement.

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The enemy is among us, at Fort Hood and in a generation pitifully unfit for military service.

"... generation pitifully unfit for military service" ??? What the heck does that mean?

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I think General Shalikashvili basically said American youth is too fat, too stupid, and too criminal to be able or trusted to pull a trigger.

I can't decide if this is good or bad. Maybe if we are so unfit to go to war, we'll try investing our time and resources into something more productive for a change?


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You're always right on, Purple State. Maybe raising a generation of super soldiers would make us a failure as a nation.

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It's just my mafioso disco dancing side coming out ;-)

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It is getting extremely boring responding to people who won't read the Dissent essay that is the centerpiece of the TPM post and who won't read the comments and responses posted just above their own. But here,again....

http://www.militarytimes.com/news/2009/11/military_unfityouths_recruiting_110309w/

Wesley Clark and John Shalikashvili held a press conference with Arne Duncan last week to say that 70% of American youth are either too overweight or too under-educated to serve in the military. Whether or not they're right, they're on to something, but they won't come clean about the causes of the problem.

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The essay is fantastic, by the way and yes, I think we have misconstrued some of your argument here. This passage sets a lot right for me:

"That puts a new twist on Boot’s claim that “the most pressing problem for McChrystal lies not in Afghanistan…but inside the United States.” McChrystal’s call for more resources does put President Obama and liberals on the spot. But his conservative boosters can’t very credibly demand more resources from an American economy and a polity they’ve left on the ropes."

Thanks once again for a lovely Saturday morning read.

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http://www.mantlethought.org/content/voice-crying-afghanistan

"In Afghanistan every day we are mourning civilian casualties as a result of the U.S./NATO bombardments and the use of illegal massive weapons. In my own hometown, over 150 civilians, many of them women and children, were brutally killed when U.S. warplanes dropped 2000-pound bombs on two villages. Dropping thousands of cluster bombs and use of depleted-uranium and white phosphorus in bombs rained on Afghanistan have caused terrible environmental and health problems in my country.

The people of the United States should know that the people of Afghanistan want peace, liberation and democracy, but the current occupation is exactly against these values and has doubled our miseries and problems. We have come to the point that achieving these values is the sole responsibility of our people and its democratic-minded forces, those who claim to donate these values will only push us towered slavery.

I believe that the U.S./NATO governments in Afghanistan and wastes the tax-payers money in the wrong way. The money they are spending and the lives they are sacrificing is not for our poor people, but rather it adds to their miseries. So you should continue to put pressure on your government to pull out of Afghanistan.

People of the United States and the world should know that their troops are not in Afghanistan with gifts of freedom and democracy, but to nourish and support a bunch of criminal rulers—they are simply wasting their blood and money.

Afghan people have found by experience in the past few years that the West once used us in its chess game during the Cold War, which cost us over two million lives and completely destroyed Afghanistan’s infrastructure. Now they are trying to use us in another such power struggle against its rising rivals in Asia. Therefore, we say no to this occupation and want all the troops to withdraw Afghanistan as soon as possible.

The anti-occupation sentiments are very high among our people today. There have been many anti-U.S./NATO protests in every corner of Afghanistan, and if these troops did not pull out voluntarily, soon they will face greater resistance from our people. Terrorist groups such as the Taliban and Al-Qaeda may get the most of out of these mass protests."

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Yesterday's NY Times had an informative piece on current discussions about how best to proceed in Afghanistan. Withdrawal eventually is everyone's preferred option, and withdrawal in the near future is no-one's. The disagreements center around the best strategy for improving both the military situation and civilian conditions so that we can leave a viable society in place - one permitting a tolerable life for ordinary Afghans, and one that doesn't pose security threats to the region and to some extent globally.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/13/world/asia/13eikenberry.html?_r=1&partner=rss&emc=rss&src=ig

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As you say we have a common fate with Afghans, however, we also suffer a common malady with them even as we speak.

That malady is the corruption caused by the primary source of the toxins within power that corrupt officialdom both here and there.

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The funniest thing is that what Brooks advocates in Afghanistan, empowring communities by allocating budgets through local councils, is one of the "five motors of the revolution" of Hugo Chavez in Venezuela.

Perhaps someone can translate Hugo for David's next column:

Los consejos comunales en el marco constitucional de la democracia participativa y protagónica, son instancias de participación y protagonismo del pueblo, de articulación e integración entre las diversas organizaciones comunitarias, grupos sociales y los ciudadanos y ciudadanas, que permiten al pueblo organizado ejercer directamente la gestión de las políticas públicas y proyectos orientados a responder a las necesidades y aspiraciones de las comunidades en la construcción de una sociedad de equidad y justicia social.
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This is really too wonderful not to translate for people who don't read Spanish! So let me try, with special notice to David Brooks, whose praise for community councils in Afghanistan appear above:

"The community councils, as constitutional emblems of democratic participation and efficacy, are instances of the participation and activism of the people, and of the articulation and integration of diverse communal organizations, social groups, and citizens, which permit the organized people to exercise directly the development of public politics and projects that respond to the necessities and aspirations of communities in the construction of an equal and just society."

Well, this is a little more high-flying than what Brooks claims he's seeing in Afghanistan, but one might well still conclude that Hugo Chavez was his mentor! Thanks very much for this.

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I forgot to make clear that the Brooks comment about community councils in Afghanistan that sounds like an endorsement of Chavez' policies, is not in the post above, but in the Dissent essay that is the basis for the post.

There, he touts the Afghan National Solidarity Project, which, according to Brooks, helps “villages elect Community Development Councils. Western aid agencies give the councils up to $60,000 to do local projects, but it’s not the projects that matter most. It’s the creation of formal community structures. These projects are up and running in 23,000 villages.”

Please do read the Dissent essay:
http://dissentmagazine.org/online.php?id=311

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I read Jim Sleeper's essay in Dissent.

"The “War on Poverty” did many things wrong, but so will McChrystal’s plan unless Americans decide that we can’t serve our national defense by advancing democracy in Afghanistan unless we’re doing at least as much and as well to advance it here at home."

McChrystal is talking about providing clean water in remote villages that never had clean water.

Jim Sleeper is blowing word-salad out his ass.

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Evildude, That bitchslap of Brooks is just too good. And, like yousaid, it IS funny.

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" El Presidente Chávez anunció tras su victoria electoral de diciembre pasado, que había llegado el momento de marchar hacia el socialismo bolivariano, poniendo en práctica el Proyecto Nacional Simón Bolívar, que consiste en transformar las estructuras políticas, sociales y económicas, las militares y territoriales, las relaciones internacionales y los fundamentos éticos."

Unfortunately, Hugo Chavez has a rather fanciful view of Bolivar's legacy. Bolivar's vision was Liberal and Republican including the advocacy of a laissez-faire "free market” . Although Bolivar admired Jefferson and the American Revolution, he did not think that the same could be achieved in Latin America. As far as Chavez invoking Bolivar as a socialist: that's rather fanciful.

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You mean Chavez is not 100% historically accurate when he invokes national heroes? I'm shocked, really shocked. I've just completely lost respect for Chavez...as a historian.

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No I mean that--as a kind o socialist myself--I would not necessarily invoke Bolivar as the standard bearer for a socialist revolution (revolutionary that he was against European nobility even though his roots were deep in that nobility).

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it was obviously an academic point, half tongue-in-cheek.

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Hey -- a little sympathy for McChrystal, wot?

All we Americans want is the freedom to wander about eastern Afghanistan and the adjacent tribal territories assassinating bad guys here and there.

But the USG, for whatever its meshugge, fakakta reasons, wants to do COIN.

Only, you can't do COIN in support of an illegitimate kleptocracy -- it just isn't kosher.

So, what's the poor man to do?

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...Giving the US military the assignment if it is not achievable, no matter how hard they work, how much money is spent, and how long it takes means that we are merely engaging in counterinsurgency for counterinsurgency’s sake, not with an achievable positive outcome in sight. This is unfair to the US military and the Afghans we are ostensibly trying to help.

On the other hand, doing exactly that is more than fair to the Military Industrial Complex that we are (less ostensibly) also trying to help.

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It's the pipeline stupid!

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Jim, I think you are probably right about what I take to be your central point about Afghanistan in the Dissent article: that McChrystal appears to be guilty of applying some grandiose, top-down, Big Theory to Afghanistan, with lots of large academical ideas about how to succeed at nation-building and counterinsurgency in general, but with a worrying lack of connection to the contingent realities on the ground in Afghanistan. At least, this seems to be the concern of some skeptical Obama administration officials, who are suggesting through their leaks that they aren't yet seeing how all this wonderful theorizing actually gets us from point A to point B. One wonders if these military wizards even know themselves what point B is.

I think we are also hearing some skepticism from the Biden camp that there is a frustrating lack of focus on priorities among the current crop of military commanders. Are these military pros trying to pull us into a commitment to their extremely expensive project for the Washington-directed overhaul of Afghanistan, a project with very distant and indefinite spatial and temporal horizons, because such a project is really a vital national security priority, or do they just want to prove that they and their soldiers can pull it off?

And you are right to connect this strain of wild-eyed and expansive theorizing with the recent vaulting state-engineering ambitions of neoconservative thinkers, ambitions which have already been demonstrated in the laboratory of reality to be naive failures.

But I wish you would take a more direct route in your writing. The Dissent piece is bogged down with an extended and distracting ad hominem argument against conservative writers, and analogies with past local battles in new York that is more forced than illuminating. And your incessant personal wars with various New York pundits tend, in my view, to reduce the dignity of your writing and turn it into catty village gossip about local Manhattan spats that most Americans don't care about.

Although you are talking here about national security and the wider world, your head seems permanently trapped in the local chattering class New York village, where every issue is reduced to something local, and frequently petty. I understand I may not be the ideal Dissent reader, but I suspect I speak for the vast majority of Americans, some of us who are even well-educated, who also don't read Dissent much. If you are really trying to achieve a broad audience for your views, and contribute to the national debate on Afghanistan in a way that might have an actual impact on national decisions, you need to get yourself out of the neighborhood.

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Sorry, but I don't think I've ever seen a more classic example of "projection" -- that is, of someone psychologizing a text by reading his own preoccupations into it.

I find only two references to New York in the Dissent piece -- one to the attacks of 9/11, the other to the Industrial Areas' Foundation's Nehemiah program, which has nothing to do with your preoccupation here.

If you are disturbed by my observing that the neo-cons are suddenly channeling Hugo Chavez after years of disdaining "community organizing," I can't help you.

Physician, heal thyself.

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Jim, you say:

If you are disturbed by my observing that the neo-cons are suddenly channeling Hugo Chavez after years of disdaining "community organizing," I can't help you.

... hence, my comment about ad hominem arguments. Responding to a present argument by pointing out that some of the premises used in that argument are inconsistent with premises the authors of the present argument defended at some point in the past is an ineffective way of challenging an argument.

Were they wrong in the past? Or are they wrong now?

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I'm just lovin' what I heard the man say yesterday morning, as broadcast on NPR.

He was defending himself against criticism of his decision making regards the distant war.

But his very particular remark that his critics are simply in the dark, that their not being in a position to decide, i.e. - be really cool and in the know about things - plus his allegation that we do not appreciate "the gravity" of the situation, is REPUGNANT.

It is the sort of response that Nixon and Agnew were so prone to making. This is what gets me so riled up over his (now become) grotesque dispassion. I've become ever more convinced over the past few weeks - that the electorate made a very bad choice in the primaries last year. Hence, the death of JFK brought us LBJ and the swamps of An Loc, which gave us Nixon and Kissinger whose actions gave us the ill-suited Jimmy Carter, who gave us CONTRA-Reagan and the Bush Inc. invasions of Panama, Somalia, Iraq and now we are given unto, must remain quag/quick-sanded in Afghanistan under the rule of this dispassionate academic who is too young, has never had to confront horror, and so, more horror results.

How long is it going to be until Biden draws himself up and lays down the gauntlet, distances himself from this equivocating, very cool operator who is thoroughly out of depth, the much greater, requisite depth that Hillary Clinton could have given us. And just how long will SHE, Condolesa Clinton, remain on board, be an apologist, so many years following the very acute era that drew her and her husband into public service? I know that I contradict myself here - does she still harbor illusions, the way that things are going?

Haven't you enought blood on your hands already, Mr. Obama? Spare us. Please resign and take your very cool schtick back to Cambridge.

Gawd, did I ever get suckered! Forty years after all of the "gravity" which I'd witnessed in Vietnam and have studied intently meanwhile.

One question for ya, Mr. President: about that young man who immolated himself outside the window of Robert McNamara's Pentagon office - I guess that he had no idea of the gravity of the situation all over southeast Asia either, right - Mr. Cool? Your coolness is only a mask for cynicism.

You were six or so years old at the time.

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I agree with you that Obama is way out of his depth, but I'm not so sure we would have been better off with Hillary. What we needed last year was an actual liberal Democrat with depth who both understands what he/she is facing but also understands history and the mistakes of the past. Obama has a shallow understanding of history as demonstrated by some of his public comments and his many highly misguided decisions regarding the two wars, but especially Afghanistan. We are in a world of shit and it's gonna get much worse for us thanks to Obama's inability to recognize that there is simply no argument or scenario or set of circumstances that justify us staying in Afghanistan for one more minute. Our presence only exacerbates all the problems we have created.

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Stomping around in the mud, filling sandbags after so much as giving the captain the finger forty plus years ago and south of Pleiku, I stood there in the tropical sun and had a brain fart.

Suddenly it became very clear to this poster that the average Vietnamese citizen, with and among all of the indignities and afflictions of life, all of his or her suffering and anonymity, well, that was all well and fine with the average policy maker in Washington, that these people could die of whatever accident or disease, be buried out in the paddy and have the village water buffalo defacate right above their bones - - - but if they were ever to stop one single moment and start questioning their entire societal setup, that if they might simply IMAGINE organizing themselves and begin cutting the balls and/or heads off of the always corrupt local public servant, well - watch the hell out!

Because Joseph Alsop, Cardinal Spellman, Father McCloughlan, Barry Goldwater, Curtis LeMay and Time Incorporated would not like that. Hence, there would be no limit in the expenditure of resources and American lives to blow said peasants to smithereens via F-16, B-52, Huey, C-130, M-79/60/50/16 and Claymore technologies, not to mention white phosphorus as well as a certain brand of thickened gasoline that spreads and burns so effectively.

In hindsight I wonder if it all could have been avoided if the federal government has issued olvie drab dildoes to all of the males listed above, Henry Luce included. And about Henry's high-society "callgirl" wife: well, they should have given her the 500 watt model, then sat back with hopes that the contraption would short circuit.

Nothing's changed, huh folks?

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Man you got that right.

The 'debate' about Afghanistan in our country is completely pointless. One guy in a necktie arguing with another guy in a necktie.

The people making huge money off this war are sure keeping quiet. The US citizen, kept in the dark, a happy idiot knowing nothing about it, makes no sacrifice and feels nothing while the treasury is looted and people are slaughtered for no good reason.

Instead we hear an endless quibble about 'more troops' ...

If you meant to paint your house white, and you used green paint by mistake, and you are wearing a blindfold, should you order 'more paint' ??

Why did we go there? Why are we there now ? What is the point of staying ?

Are we being urged out of there so that the war-starters can start another war in Iran ? Are we fed an endless stream of nonsense by the same guys that always start wars ?

I heard that 7% of the people inside the biggest base in Afghanistan ever get outside the perimeter to fight ... is that correct ? So what is the point of 'more troops' ?

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"This means that while the general knows warfare better than the President, the President understands soft power more deeply."

Upon what evidence do you make this entirely unsupported statement? That Obama was a community organizer for a couple of years? Please! Obama demonstrates little understanding of either soft power or the malignant American addiction to military power. He contemplates ruinous escalation of the pointless imperial effort in Afghanistan while simultaneously rattling his saber at the Iranians for not coming to heel fast enough. Soft power indeed! Any such references are mere window dressing.

The time has long past for soft power to do the trick in Afghanistan. The military has done far too much damage. We certainly cannot afford the soft power that would be needed in addition to the completely counterproductive violence of our military. In point of fact, we can't afford any of it! Our weird discussions of what we should be doing to manipulate the destiny of other nations is reminiscent of a King in his high tower planning new battles and conquests not noticing that he no longer can afford the armies he has which makes all his fantasies about what he will do completely absurd. America is now in that position. We are virtually bankrupt yet refuse to call back our imperial armies or cancel the massive tax cuts for the rich. Instead we lavish Wall Street, the Pentagon, the health insurance parasites and big pharma with benefits and lucre all of which must be borrowed from the Chinese. It amazes me how the chattering and governing classes don't get just how bad a shape this country is really in.

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"It amazes me how the chattering and governing classes don't get just how bad a shape this country is really in."

Oleeb, dear fellow, I think that this is the point of my post, and it is even more emphatically the point of my Dissent essay, upon which the post is based and which is linked twice there. If you're agreeing with me, then I am agreeing with you.

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To give the COIN methodology its due, there is more to it than exporting a "model of democracy." In the Dissent article, you say:

But removing Saddam and his cadres without nourishing democratic alternatives left us owning something we’d broken. And now history is nudging us back. Hence conservatives’ new urgency not only to win savage battles but also to drain swamps of corruption and despair. But now that their own model of “democracy” has generated such swamps in America, it’s not so clear that national defense or democracy are best served by creating more public jobs in Afghanistan than right here.
Isn't the appearance of a few conservatives being seen considering the advantages of nation building better than when dismissed it as some sort of massive demonstration of Political Correctness?

Also, the use of COIN in Afghanistan is only one piece of the problem with the Taliban. As Ahmed Rashid

And thus we come to the end of the good news. If the army is now acting responsibly in dealing with the Pakistan Taliban, such is not the case with the Afghan Taliban. Key networks, such as those of Haqqani and Gulbuddin Hekmatyar, are based in North Waziristan, and they launch attacks into Afghanistan. For the past eight years they have never been bothered by the Pakistani army.
Neither have the main Afghan Taliban leaders who live in Quetta in Baluchistan province. From Quetta, the Taliban is able to resupply its forces in Afghanistan with money, ammunition, suicide bombers and materials to make bombs and mines—all under the watchful eye of the ISI. According to intelligence sources, the Taliban leader Mullah Omar is now in a safe house in Karachi because of the fear that the United States may start using drone attacks on Quetta.
Even an adherent of the COIN idea as Rachid acknowledges that efforts in Afghanistan don't mean squat if this dynamic isn't changed. He certainly points out how the "conservatives" didn't work on it for eight years.

Apart from all the arguments about whether any attempt to execute a "regional strategy" is a neocon dream or not, there is another observation in that Rashid article that touches upon the war on poverty meme you brought up:

The regions bordering Afghanistan, including southern Tajikistan, Uzbekistan, Kyrgyzstan and eastern Turkmenistan, are facing pauperization of their populations, the collapse of Soviet-era services like health and education, and growing joblessness. Their regimes remain dictatorial, corrupt, and deny political or economic reforms. Vast numbers of poverty-stricken workers migrate to Russia looking for work.

The American Exceptionalism that the exudes the quiet confidence that we need only apply ourselves (and cash) to make these places safer for America may be dream but there are a lot things that getting very bad there that we need to respond to as part of an international community.

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Please pardon the broken English.

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