Yet Another Israeli Spy Case (UPDATED)
Another Israeli spy scandal is making news. Of course, at this point, we don't know much only that like other recent spy scandals, it is an ugly episode that will reverberate negatively on the "Israel, right or wrong" crowd. ITALICIZED MATERIAL IS NEW.
The Israel-first crowd is screaming that this spy case doesn't involve the government of Israel.
Not true. The US government charges that the spy took over $200,000 from Israel Aircraft -- an Israeli government entity -- in exchange for top secret information. Obviously, the case involves the government of Israel. This is not to say the accused spy is guilty. A trial will determine that. However, the State of Israel is deeply implicated in the charges.
It is also worth noting how quickly the Israel firsters defend accused spies. Why? It is as if Arab-Americans immediately rushed to defend those charged with terrorism based on ethnic solidarity?
Can you imagine the brouhaha if Arab Americans rushed to knee-jerk defense of the guy charged with those thwarted New York terror attacks scheduled for this September 11? They don't do that. The Israel-first do, over and over again. Any Israeli, any Jew, is always, by definition, unjustly accused. It is exactly the opposite with Arabs and Arab Americans. Fortunately, the Israel firsters constitute exactly .000003% of the American Jewish community (slighly higher here at the Cafe).
This is from the Wall Street Journal. It looks huge.
"A top U.S. space researcher was arrested in a Federal Bureau of Investigation sting Monday and charged with attempting to spy for Israel.
"Stewart Nozette, 52 years old, of Chevy Chase, Md., is a former government physicist who worked for agencies ranging from the Defense Department to the White House.
"In exchange for thousands of dollars in cash and an Israeli passport, Mr. Nozette attempted to pass on U.S. top secret nuclear and space secrets to an FBI agent who was posing as an Israeli intelligence operative, according to an FBI affidavit filed with the criminal complaint in the case."
This breaking story should divert the lobby's rightist hardliners from questioning J Street's right to dissent from Israeli government policies. If they are worried about Jews and Israel, let them focus those anxieties not on honest questioning of policy but on the damage done by the likes of Nozette, Pollard, Rosen (yeah, Rosen. The case was dropped but his whole life has been dedicated to influence peddling to distort US policies) and others.who bring shame to every Jewish American. The attacks on J Street for not supporting every Israeli policy look increasingly sick; this story adds to that impression.
Just one more reason I'm glad that J Street is the future and the old lobby is fighting to stay alive.
MORE from Laura Rozen in Politico who, I expect, will be the best source for this evolving story.
October 19, 2009 11:22 PM | Reply | Permalink
The FBI did not "create them[sic]." The FBI conducted a sting and the guy was trying to trade secrets for cash. If it is proven he did this he deserves prosecution and he deserved to get caught. finding miscreants trying to sell secrets for foreign governments is one of the FBI's jobs.
However, it does not reflect on Israel since Israel was not a party thanks to early FBI action.
October 20, 2009 12:00 AM | Reply | Permalink
sting: a trap set up by the police to entice a person to commit a crime and thereby produce evidence
Well, hurrah for them. The Federal Bureau of Instigation er, Investigation enticed a person to commit a crime. We don't have enough criminals so we need to entice some.
In any case it is a tempest in a teapot -- no real unenticed criminals were caught and it was not "Another Israeli spy scandal".
MJ may have to pull another thread to add to his pull and his dupe already in the past week -- he's on a roll. The FBI too -- perhaps they can entice somebody to kill their spouse or somebody, and thereby solve another crime WHICH THEY IN FACT CREATED.
October 20, 2009 12:45 AM | Reply | Permalink
Let's not forget where the Pakistanis got the majority of their made-in-the-USA nuclear intelligence from: Israelis and Turks. It's common knowledge that Israelis spy on and sell more American secrets than any other nation post-Cold War. Quelles amitiés.
Is entrapment really a pet issue of yours, or are you more concerned with defending Israel?
October 20, 2009 8:05 AM | Reply | Permalink
How about sourcing those claims. I don't believe any of them.
October 20, 2009 1:15 PM | Reply | Permalink
Israeli espionage in the US, general:
http://www.counterpunch.org/husseini08302004.html
http://www.counterpunch.org/ketcham03122009.html
http://archive.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2001/12/18/224826.shtml
http://www.janes.com/security/international_security/news/fr/fr040929_1_n.shtml
http://web.archive.org/web/20070929083335/http://www.metimes.com/storyview.php?StoryID=20041210-084724-2219r
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/0903-24.htm
AQ Khan/Pakistan/Turkey/Israel:
'The FBI was monitoring Turkish diplomatic and political figures based in Washington who were allegedly working with the Israelis and using “moles” in military and academic institutions to acquire nuclear secrets.' Granted, these are all allegations. Why would anyone want to rock the boat...
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article3257725.ece
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article3137695.ece
October 20, 2009 7:26 PM | Reply | Permalink
Thank you for your efforts.
First, here's another view of how Pakistan acquired its nuclear capability
http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200511/aq-khan
Second in one of your sources I found the claim
"Israeli agents eventually spirited home an estimated 200 pounds of uranium as the bulwark in Israel’s secret nuclear weapons program."
But an article (note 110. or 111 at the bottom of the page) referenced in the Wikipedia article on the Yom Kippur war points out that 100 lbs of that uranium was found in the original building when it was dismantled and the whole claim has been generally discredited.
I can't tell you who to believe...but I can tell you that either your sources or mine are shit. They can't both be correct.
October 20, 2009 10:22 PM | Reply | Permalink
Lemme just speculate that 99.99% of the stuff we aren't supposed to know concerning these matters we will never know. That being said, it seems to me that the US jeopardizes its 'interest' (stable access to oil) in the region for the sake of Israel far too much, and that successive Israeli govts don't give a s***. Nor should they be expected to. I think the large amount of clandestine activity Israel is willing to do in the US exemplifies that. When did the proxy become the benefactor?
October 22, 2009 9:55 AM | Reply | Permalink
Yours is one side of the argument which has raged among American foreign policy professionals since George Marshall first disagreed with Truman.
On one side you had Marshall, who said we were becoming increasingly dependent on Mid East oil - both as consumers and as profiteers - and should do everything possible to secure our supplies.
On the other you had first, Truman, who said that the Jews deserved a home and we should simply do the right thing, and then later, people like Kissinger who pointed out that Arabs had chosen the Soviet side and Israel stood against them.
There never has been a simple answer to that dispute, and there isn't today. Muslim culture is screwed up - they're having a terrible time adjusting to the modern world and have had for a long time. Oil supplies in general, and Middle East oil in particular, are running out. For everyone, not just us. So the competition for what's left is increasing radically. Even if Israel disappears, we are going to have to fight very hard for our share. Israel, because it is a small country in a sea of enemies, is always going to be big on technological espionage. It has to be. Without its huge technological advantage it wouldn't survive for 10 minutes. And it will be increasingly joined by everyone else who envies our wealth and power.
October 22, 2009 12:40 PM | Reply | Permalink
RE: "This was pure creativity and entrapment by FBI agents with nothing better to do." - Don Bacon
FROM LAURA ROZEN -
UPDATE: Regarding what led to the sting, the Post reports:
Authorities would not say what prompted their investigation, but an FBI agent wrote in court papers that Nozette acted as a technical consultant for an unnamed aerospace firm that the Israeli government owned. From 1998 through 2008, the scientist "answered the company's questions and, in return, Nozette received regular payments from the company," the agent wrote.
The agent wrote that the Israeli company paid Nozette $225,000 during that span. ... Sometime before Nozette took a foreign trip in January, he told a colleague that he would flee the United States if charged with a crime, the agent wrote. Nozette added that he would tell officials from an unidentified country and Israel "everything" he knew, the court papers allege.
This from the accompanying complaint is also interesting (Nozette to UCE he thinks is Israeli intelligence official):
"I thought I was working for you already. I mean that's what I always thought, [the foreign company] was just a front."
An Israeli colleague suggests the Israeli company Nozette was working for may have been Israel Aircraft Industries, but wasn't sure...
...Bloomberg adds: In January, Nozette traveled to an unnamed country carrying two computer thumb drives that were found in his baggage by an airport security inspector, according to the criminal complaint. When he returned to the U.S., he was searched by a customs officer who couldn’t locate the drives, the complaint said...
On Sept. 3, he was contacted by telephone by an individual claiming to be an Israeli intelligence officer...
SOURCE - http://www.politico.com/blogs/laurarozen/1009/Maryland_scientist_indicted_for_attempted_espionage_for_Israel.html?showall
October 20, 2009 6:13 AM | Reply | Permalink
"PAGING JANE HARMON...PAGING JANE HARMON! Congresswoman Harmon, you have several very urgent calls on hold for you at the courtesy desk. One of them appears to be from an über-wealthy Israeli-American who lives in your district and is a major donor to the Democratic Party. COME TO THE COURTESY DESK IMMEDIATELY! Please be more discreet this time and try not to let Nancy Pelosi know that something is afoot."
October 20, 2009 6:41 AM | Reply | Permalink
RE: Israel Aircraft Industries
MY COMMENT: Does anyone remember Dominik Suter and "Urban Moving Systems" - ostensibly of Weehawken, NJ (but more likely, Herzliya)?
HINT: "The five dancing Israelis of 9/11"
P.S. See "9/11 advance-knowledge debate" at Wikipedia
LINK - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9/11_advance-knowledge_debate
October 20, 2009 7:14 AM | Reply | Permalink
It appears I was wrong to decouple Israel since he thought he was working for them already.
October 20, 2009 12:47 PM | Reply | Permalink
RE: "This was pure creativity and entrapment by FBI agents with nothing better to do." - Don Bacon
FROM MILITARY.COM: "Ex-FBI Translator Claims Spying at DoD", by Bryant Jordan, 10/21/09
...In sworn testimony to attorneys on Aug. 8, Sibel Edmonds described a Pentagon where key personnel helped pass defense secrets to foreign agents or provided them names of knowledgeable officials who were vulnerable to blackmail or co-option.
And firmly rooted in this espionage program in the 1990s, according to Edmonds’ deposition, were two men who, with the election of George W. Bush as president in 2000, found themselves in the Pentagon: Douglas Feith, who would head the Office of Special Plans, and Richard Perle, who would become chairman of the Defense Advisory Board.
"They were 100 percent directly involved," Edmonds told Military.com. "They were not in the Pentagon [in the late 1990s] but they had their people inside the Pentagon." One of those people, she said, was Larry Franklin, an Air Force officer assigned to the Office of Special Plans who, in 2003, passed classified information to representatives of the American Israel Public Affairs Office, or AIPAC. By then Feith was leading the OSP.
...According to Edmonds, those sought out by Turkish and Israeli agents might actually be working outside the Pentagon. As a result, she testified, the foreign operatives managed to put on their payroll individuals "on almost every major nuclear facility in the United States, RAND Corporation and ... various Air Force labs that develop certain weapons technology."...
...And the Defense Department wasn’t the only power center targeted by foreign agents and their U.S. helpers, she says. On Capitol Hill, she said, the late congressman Rep. Tom Lantos, D-Calif., disclosed “highest level” intelligence and weapons technology to both Israel and Turkey...
ENTIRE ARTICLE - http://www.military.com/news/article/ex-fbi-translator-claims-spying-at-dod.html
October 22, 2009 1:12 PM | Reply | Permalink
This guy was such a clueless putz @ spycraft that the Israelis probably outted him themselves. Who needs the headaches from yet another volunteer mucking things up? One "Jonathan Pollard" is quite enough.
October 20, 2009 12:17 AM | Reply | Permalink
There's more than one Pollard, but most get a free trip back to Israel instead of a federal stretch. However, the idea the Mossad may have rolled on Nozette (great name, by the way) is an interesting one, especially if his info was dodgy or he really was too loose a cannon. Mossad gets some free public relations - and doesn't lose anything.
October 20, 2009 4:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
PLEASE SEE: "The Dark Side of the ‘Special Relationship’ - Spy vs. spy, Israel vs. America", by Jason Raimondo, 10/21/09
(excerpt)...In 2007, federal authorities raided the offices of Nozette’s nonprofit company, the Alliance for Competitive Technology (ACT), purportedly because ACT, having procured several lucrative government contracts, had defrauded the federal government by overcharging. The affidavit cites an anonymous colleague of Nozette who recalled the scientist said that if the U.S. government ever tried to put him in jail he would go to Israel or another foreign country and “tell them everything” he knows.
Perhaps the real reason for the raid, however, had to do with the FBI’s growing suspicion – if not certainty – he was funneling U.S. secrets to Tel Aviv...
...In short: ACT is all about technology transfer – from the U.S. to Israel. This, as is well-known, is one of the favored activities of the Israeli intelligence services, which regularly pilfer the latest American technology (especially military applications) to such an extent that a General Accounting Office investigation once characterized the effort as "the most aggressive espionage operations against the U.S. of any U.S. ally."
ACT had contracts with the U.S. Naval Research Laboratory in Washington, D.C., the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency in Arlington, Va., and NASA’s Goddard Space Flight Center in Greenbelt, Md. It is hardly a leap of faith to conclude that vital data flowing from these projects was fed directly into the waiting maw of the Mossad.
Nozette was a key figure in developing and promoting the "Star Wars" ballistic missile defense system. His colleague in the "High Frontier" movement – and the official director of ACT – is one Klaus Heiss, like Nozette an enthusiast [.pdf] of space colonization (who also has some strong views on other subjects).
Contacted by an FBI agent masquerading as an Israeli intelligence agent, Nozette didn’t blink when told his lunch companion was from the Mossad: "Good," he said. "Happy to be of assistance." This was well before the issue of money was raised...
ENTIRE ARTICLE - http://original.antiwar.com/justin/2009/10/20/the-dark-side-of-the-special-relationship/
October 21, 2009 9:45 AM | Reply | Permalink
Vintage MJ.
Misleading: There is no allegation in the story that the government of Israel was involved in any way. The hapless scientist was attempting to sell information to someone he thought was a mossad agent but turned out to be FBI.
Logically incoherent: Israeli spy scandal is good for J-Street. What exactly is the connection here?
Morally bankrupt: Shameful acts of treason by Jewish Americans are the real problem. More spies is good news for J-Street.
This is pro-Israel, pro-peace?
October 20, 2009 1:36 AM | Reply | Permalink
The Israelis couldn't use much of Nozette's product anyway; much of it was in his head and would require debriefing by someone at his stratospheric technical level. So far, there's no indication of ideological motivation.
"Hapless" doesn't even begin to describe this agent wannabe.... he was a loose canon. IMO, any GOI involvement in this case would have been to everyone's benefit.
Who dropped the dime on Nozette?
MJ is actually freaking out, BTW. He jumped the gun and assumed the worst. Just like you do.
October 20, 2009 2:40 AM | Reply | Permalink
Mr. Rosenberg owes Israel an apology. As stated by the Justice Department, “The complaint does not allege that the government of Israel or anyone acting on its behalf committed any offense under U.S. laws in this case.” http://www.usdoj.gov/opa/pr/2009/October/09-nsd-1122.html
There were no Israelis involved, yet Mr. Rosenberg blames Israel. Yes, that is the J Street way.
Perhaps Mr. Rosenberg should be protesting the use of Israel as a scapegoat, as the bait, and as the villain. Is the FBI getting back at Israel for their blowing the "spy" case against Steven Rosen?
October 20, 2009 1:54 AM | Reply | Permalink
October 20, 2009 2:45 AM | Reply | Permalink
Is the FBI getting back at Israel for their blowing the "spy" case against Steven Rosen?
Good question. Glad you asked it.
October 20, 2009 2:49 AM | Reply | Permalink
Fucking moron, MJ, how soon you'll remove this post?
October 20, 2009 2:46 AM | Reply | Permalink
RE: "F**king moron, MJ, how soon you'll remove this post?" - AnnaA
PLEASE SEE: "The Dark Side of the ‘Special Relationship’ - Spy vs. spy, Israel vs. America", by Jason Raimondo, 10/21/09
(excerpt)...among the material Pollard had been asked by his Israeli handlers to steal was the U.S. attack plan against the Soviet Union. According to Seymour Hersh, then-CIA director Bill Casey claimed Tel Aviv handed over the information to Moscow in exchange for relaxation of travel restrictions on Soviet Jews, who were then allowed to emigrate to Israel.
The Pollard case is emblematic – but it was just the beginning of a years-long effort by U.S. counterintelligence to rid themselves of the Israeli incubus. Law enforcement was – and presumably still is – convinced Pollard was very far from alone, and that a highly placed "mole" had provided him with key information. In his quest to procure very specific information, Pollard knew precisely which documents to look for – knowledge he couldn’t access without help from someone very high in government circles.
In addition, the National Security Agency (NSA) intercepted a phone conversation between an Israeli intelligence officer and his boss in Tel Aviv, during which they discussed how to get hold of a letter by then-secretary of state Warren Christopher to Yasser Arafat. The Washington spy suggested they use "Mega," but his boss demurred: "This is not something we use Mega for," he averred.
The search for Mega and his underlings continues to this day, as U.S. counterintelligence attempts to rip up what appears to be a vast Israeli spy operation by its very deep roots. That’s why they went after Ben Ami Kadish, who handed over U.S. secrets to Tel Aviv and shared a handler with Pollard, and why they indicted Steve Rosen and Keith Weissman, two top officials of AIPAC, the powerful pro-Israel lobbying group. That’s why they were listening on the other end as Jane Harman promised an Israeli agent to intervene in the Rosen-Weissman case. And now a new front has been opened up in this subterranean war with the arrest of Stewart David Nozette, a top U.S. scientist who worked for the Pentagon, had access to the most closely guarded nuclear secrets...
ENTIRE ARTICLE - http://original.antiwar.com/justin/2009/10/20/the-dark-side-of-the-special-relationship/
October 21, 2009 9:25 AM | Reply | Permalink
While MJ is the face of Israeli enemies in US, Israel will be just fine.
October 20, 2009 3:05 AM | Reply | Permalink
Not sure how big this is, MJ, but it serves as a useful reminder that in the eyes of American law, not to mention common sense and 3rd grade geography, Israel is NOT in fact the 51st US state, nor is it some all-holy sacred cow that only self-hating-Semites would ever be so blasphemous as to question in the slightest way. It is, in fact, an independent country, and from the standpoint of Americans a foreign country. Nozette was quite evidently an American who was gung ho to betray his country on behalf of that particular foreign country. You did NOT say the Israeli government was actually involved (so far there is no indication it was, other than in Nozette's head) and when the deranged juvenile-delinquent Likudniks ranting and raving on this page finally sit down and open up their 5th grade school lunch boxes, perhaps they can bother to read what you actually wrote.
October 20, 2009 3:44 AM | Reply | Permalink
MJ's original post did in fact imply Israeli involvement and the disclaimer about the apparent lack of Israeli government involvement was tacked on after the criticisms. Oh, and the title of the piece "Israeli Spy Case" certainly does seem to imply government involvement. Finally, if MJ believed the government was not involved, this blog would have no significance whatsoever. New title: "Hapless Scientist Tries To Sell US Secrets" -- kind of loses its sting, doesn't it?
PS, your consistently unhinged, hysterical, overwrought ramblings (i.e., "deranged deranged juvenile-delinquent Likudniks," and frequent references to settler-fanatic-boot-lickers in Congress) do not advance your arguments.
October 20, 2009 10:28 AM | Reply | Permalink
"MJ's original post did in fact imply Israeli involvement"
You saw something (now gone) that I didn't, Armchair. Can you cite it?
What any half open-minded observer can for sure see is the massive knee-jerk defense of the non-accused Israel in these comments. That paranoia is the real story here.
October 20, 2009 11:54 AM | Reply | Permalink
Is it "paranoia" to fear an objective evaluation of the conduct of many of Israel's friends?
October 20, 2009 12:19 PM | Reply | Permalink
No, Mythbuster, but paranoia lies beneath the pathological instinct to leap to the Warsaw Ghetto barricades even when there is no attack whatsoever.
For example: all this fuss about whether the would-be spy is a Jew or not. Who the hell cares? This by all indications is a traitor to America, who like a number of recent ones happened to pick Israel (our "ally") as the intended beneficiary of his treason. That is the factual situation. Trying to manufacture a straw man anti-Jewish witch hunt is pathetic, but typical of behavior that knows no ethical limits, e.g. is fundamentally based on psychological problems.
October 20, 2009 2:30 PM | Reply | Permalink
Nozette appears to have been willing to 'pick' anyone willing to give him money.
The person who picked Israel as the ostensible source of the largesse was the FBI agent -- probably because so many are willing to believe your accusations.
Unless more comes out, the FBI appears to be serene about whatever technical advice Nozette supplied to the areospace company.
October 21, 2009 2:07 AM | Reply | Permalink
Memo to AJM: He requested an Israeli passport.
Now, why would he want that if his real goal was to help India?
October 21, 2009 5:19 PM | Reply | Permalink
If you pick Hamas as your own spymaster, does that make Hamas guilty of spying?
This is the argument that you are making about this clown and Israel.
It is absurd.
He thought Israel could help him, he asked the FBI agent who was faking being an Israeli agent for that help.
It also fairly likely that he was not officially spying for the Israeli aerospace company -- if he was, wouldn't he have gone to handlers and said hey, I've been approached -- is he one of yours? Clearly, that didn't happen.
During the cold war, people like him often asked Russia for help, not because they gave a damn about Russia, but because that was where they thought they could get help.
It is high time that you get a college level course in logic.
October 21, 2009 10:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
His real goal was to help himself and if India had offered him safe haven he would probably have bit.
Recall the Pakistani nuclear scientist who was a national hero and punished for spreading nukes with house arrest.
That he wanted the Israelis to help him says little or nothing about whether they wanted to help him.
If I approach you with money for gay sex, does that make you a prostitute? No, it's only your own actions. Stop telling me what this clown has done, and tell me what Israel has done with respect to him.
October 21, 2009 10:09 PM | Reply | Permalink
As others have noted, the Wall St. Journal, Laura Rosen, and all other stories, carry the disclaimer
"U.S. officials said the Nozette case doesn't include allegations that Israel or its agents were involved."
Nor are there any allegations that Nozette is Jewish. But both you and he live in Chevy Chase, Md. and there are photos, circulating on the Internet, of you and he together in a market carrying suspicious looking brown bags...
October 20, 2009 6:26 AM | Reply | Permalink
How naive.
It's much more effective to squeeze this guy and treat it as a one-man operation. Then let's see what he tells the FBI about the activities of Mossad and GOI as part of of his plea bargain.
October 20, 2009 9:59 AM | Reply | Permalink
That's not the point, A-hole. M.J. and you are assuming guilt way ahead of the facts, thus revealing your truly grotesque prejudice.
October 20, 2009 10:57 AM | Reply | Permalink
If you are right, then you, er, Israel has nothing to worry about.
October 20, 2009 12:15 PM | Reply | Permalink
A snot to the core, aren't you? By your logic all those victims of McCarthyism had nothing to worry about if they were innocent, right?
October 20, 2009 12:30 PM | Reply | Permalink
I know you are having a bad hair day because someonoe has been accused of spying for Israel.
I feel for you man.
October 20, 2009 12:45 PM | Reply | Permalink
Let's suppose it's all true. Israel was attempting to steal atomic secrets it couldn't legitimately obtain. So what? Do you really believe that it is unique among nations?
You aren't that naive. You're just an anti-semite, plain and simple.
Here's another scenario;
The Obama administration is really worried about its current failure in the Middle East. The Arabs and other Muslims no longer believe in it, having watched the Israelis refuse to bend on settlements. The Administration doesn't have the power to force the issue because it is fully occupied militarily in Afghanistan and Iraq, or the support it needs at home because of its awful positions on health care and bailouts.
J street meanwhile is attempting to reduce Jewish support for Israel. They're in trouble. What could be a better solution for them and the Administration than to release a spy scandal just before the J-street convention? Perfect timing.
Like that one? I do.
October 20, 2009 12:58 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yes. It's the dictionary definition of anti-Semitism: (noun): to oppose someone spying on the US for the purported benefit of Israel. You got me!
By that logic, I am anti-Chinese, anti-English, ant-Russian, anti-Japanese, anti-Canadian, etc.....
You know when I knew you had intellectually surrendered: Unable to find your burrow, you squeaked out a groundless charge of anti-Semitism.
P.S. I'll be autographing my posts after the show. You, however, have to wait in line for one just like everyone else.
October 20, 2009 2:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
Nozette is a citizen of the United States and should be prosecuted. No one objects.
But Israel is a foreign country. Countries spy on each other. They all do, friend or foe. That's not news. It's not immoral. It's what they're supposed to do in dangerous world. But manipulators make lots of noise and rubes fall for it every time.
You're a snot-nosed jerk and an anti-semite in that order. Snot-nosed jerks, wimps, angry, power hungry losers are, unfortunately the activist base of the Left...just as arrogant, barely adult frat boys are the activist base of the Right. The latter are able to "out" you every time...which is why Joe Six Pack and others continue to vote against you even though the policies you advocate are better for them.
October 20, 2009 3:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
My candidate Obama won. Apparently, you've been asleep since November.
October 20, 2009 9:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
Can I have an autograph too please?
Then it's back to work for you; the myths are outrunning the busters.
October 20, 2009 4:38 PM | Reply | Permalink
What myths?
October 20, 2009 5:05 PM | Reply | Permalink
Sarcasm is wasted on you.
October 20, 2009 9:50 PM | Reply | Permalink
Reason is wasted on you.
October 20, 2009 10:29 PM | Reply | Permalink
Echo.
October 21, 2009 12:39 PM | Reply | Permalink
RE: "Nor are there any allegations that Nozette is Jewish." - spider
MY COMMENT: People (excepting Israelis*) tend to not dwell on the issue for fear of fomenting anti-Semitism (and there is still plenty of it in this country, even if it is mostly latent), but since you insist...
*since Israel benefits from a resurgence of anti-Semitism
SEE: "Accused Israeli spy told FBI both his parents were Jewish", 10/20/09
(excerpt)...Note that in the FBI affidavit, it is stated that Nozette worked for an Israeli aerospace company for several years and that he told the "false flag" FBI agent that both his parents were Jewish and that he has the "right of return" to Israel, on that basis sought a passport...[i.e., He expected Israel to supply him with an Israeli passport as part of the deal. - J.L.D.]
SOURCE - http://mondoweiss.net/2009/10/national-security-and-dual-loyalty-watch.html
FBI AFFIDAVIT (18 pages) - http://www.cicentre.com/spycase/courtdoc/NOZETTE_Stewart_cc_19OCT09.pdf
October 21, 2009 10:16 AM | Reply | Permalink
I prefer to call Mr Nozette and his ilk "Israeli sleeper cells". Of course, there are hordes of Christian fundamentalists in this country who would consider spying for Israel to be 'doing the Lord's work'. Fortunately, most of them are poorly educated and not very bright. Consequently, they seldom receive "God's call"* to spy for Israel.
*unlike George W. Bush
October 20, 2009 6:51 AM | Reply | Permalink
Can anyone seriously doubt, that had Nozette contacted a genuine Mossad espionage cell rather than an FBI sting, his information would be tucked away in "an unnamed country" by now?
October 20, 2009 9:54 AM | Reply | Permalink
Thank you. How do you contact a Mossad agent unless you have some contacts with a foreign government? Do you look up "Mossad" in the phone book?
Since Armchair Gonorrhea and Spider were so anxious to defend Zion, they forgot to think this particular problem through.
October 20, 2009 10:01 AM | Reply | Permalink
Nobody forgot to think anything through...because no one is denying that Nozette attempted to sell state secrets to Israel, or some other foreign power.
The question is who did what? Nozette thought he had valuable info. Did he? Did he approach the foreign power or the other way around? So far all we really know is that the FBI approached him pretending to be Mossad, and that Nozette didn't believe the Israeli company which employed him as a consultant was what it claimed to be.
Nations spy on each other. All nations, all the time, friend or foe. That's the background. That's why honest people wait on the facts and dishonest, bigoted assholes don't.
October 20, 2009 12:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yes, Mr. Spider, but Americans don't usually go to bat for people who try to sell our national secrets to foreign powers. Apparently, you are the exception to that rule.
And if you really think it is okay for Americans to sell our secrets to Israel, then I recommend that you make Aliyah immediately.
October 20, 2009 2:19 PM | Reply | Permalink
Nobody's going to bat for Nozette. You can't read. You can't think. All you can do is lie and spew snot. Why don't you consult mommy? I'm sure she can wipe your nose.
October 20, 2009 3:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
This is your third comment about my snot. Do you have an abnormal fluid fixation?
October 20, 2009 9:55 PM | Reply | Permalink
You are transmuting an accusation against Nozette into an accusation against Israel. That is where your anti-Semitism lies.
October 21, 2009 2:13 AM | Reply | Permalink
He wanted an Israeli passport. Do they give those out in India?
October 21, 2009 5:27 PM | Reply | Permalink
Curt: You would make a good prosecutor in a totalitarian country.
October 20, 2009 10:29 AM | Reply | Permalink
Once your reasoning has been exposed as woefully deficient, you immediately project your deficiencies onto someone else.
Nice.
October 20, 2009 10:38 AM | Reply | Permalink
It does not follow that because individual A wants to sell out to Country B, that Country B wants to buy. It is your own logic that is faulty.
And the follow up is that it appears that Nozette may have been selling out to another country indeed -- India.
October 21, 2009 2:16 AM | Reply | Permalink
Meantime, while MJ's panties are in a bunch over a spy scandal that apparently does not involve the Israeli government (despite insinuations to the contrary), the 20-year chairman of Human Rights Watch has published an op-ed in the Times describing how the organization he founded has lost its way in the Middle East. Where does the so-called "pro-Israel, pro-Peace" commentator stand on this one? Is Mr. Bernstein in the eyes of MJ just another "Israel-first, neocon?"
October 20, 2009 10:38 AM | Reply | Permalink
Yes, when given a choice between Zion and HRW, he choose Zion.
Kinda like that Carter Center scholar who turned on President Carter when he criticized Israel's conduct in the West Bank.....
Is there a trend here?
And the frequent citing of Col. Richard Kemp is silly. This is a logical fallacy called "arguing from authority." Col. Kemp states (in a conclusory fashion) that Israel took great steps to defend civilians. Well...if true, you would have thought they would have provided that evidence to Judge Goldstone, right? Kemp's statement tells us nothing about what the IDF actually did to protect civilians in Gaza, merely that the IDF did a lot. Empty.
Most importantly, Col. Kemp is an advocate for Israel, not some unbiased observor. Here is the stuff from Wiki:
Kemp has been involved with a number of Israeli organizations in relation to the December 2009 - January 2009 Gaza War. Specifically, Kemp has been involved in pushing back against allegations that Israel engaged in war crimes during the Operation Cast Lead.
In June 2009, Kemp wrote a document entitled "HAMAS, THE GAZA WAR AND ACCOUNTABILITY UNDER INTERNATIONAL LAW" for the Jerusalem Center for Public Affairs, an NGO focused on Israeli security needs headed by former Israeli ambassador Dore Gold.[13] Kemp, in his article, claims that Hamas discarded their uniform once fighting began and deployed women and children as suicide attackers. Kemp also claims that during the Gaza War that "women and children are trained and equipped to fight, collect intelligence and ferry arms and ammunition between battles."[13]
In October 2009, Kemp made a presentation to the UN Human Rights Council in response to the introduction of the Goldstone report that accuses Israel and Hamas of committing war crimes and possible crimes against humanity during the Gaza War. Kemp spoke to the UN HRC on behalf of UN Watch, a branch of the American Jewish Committee.[14] While Kemp acknowledges that "of course innocent civilians were killed. War is chaos and full of mistakes. There have been mistakes by the British, American and other forces in Afghanistan and in Iraq, many of which can be put down to human error. But mistakes are not war crimes. Kemp concludes that from his "knowledge of the IDF and from the extent to which I have been following the current operation, I don’t think there has ever been a time in the history of warfare when any army has made more efforts to reduce civilian casualties and deaths of innocent people than the IDF is doing today in Gaza."[14]
See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Kemp
Notice Armchair Gonorrhea failed to mention Col. Kemp's connection the AJC and Isareli Organizations. Some source.... (chuckle.)
'
October 20, 2009 11:25 AM | Reply | Permalink
Interesting rebuttal.
October 20, 2009 1:02 PM | Reply | Permalink
Gee, Hamas used female suicide bombers during times of 'peace'. Kemp must be totally off the wall to suspect Hamas of using them during a time of war.
Wiki has a list of the occasions Hamas ise known to have been used female suicide bombers.
Oh, and the UN has such an unbiased record with respect to Israel. I suspect it has something to do with the respective number of Moslem and Jewish countries.
October 21, 2009 2:25 AM | Reply | Permalink
Do you have a source for the statement that Hamas used women and children as suicide bombers against the IDF in December?
And by source, I don't mean a propaganda officer of the IDF.
October 21, 2009 5:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
Google is your friend. Try Hamas female suicide bombers.
From the Wiki article you will find you can get this.
# Zedalis, Debra, Female Suicide Bombers, U.S. Army War College Strategic Studies Institute (Free Download)
October 21, 2009 10:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
HRW had a team of 5 in Gaza during the siege. These facts (and more!) can be found in their report on the use of White Phosphorus and other weapons illegally against civilian centers in the report "Rain of Fire" 2009. Download your copy today!
October 20, 2009 7:31 PM | Reply | Permalink
All I can say about this bloke from Human Rights Watch...About Fucking Time...
Everyone keeps telling me about the "New Anti-Antisemitism" and I keep thinking, oh sure, here I was just getting used to the old Anti-Semitism and now, it's new and improved...xyclon B and cattle cars included...
But seriously...the "new" is separated from the "Old" Antisemitism but a historical blink of the ey of about 60 years...
Are there Isralie fascists?
Of course...
Isrlaie spies?
Of course...
Is there a bizarre nexus between Euro-American "leftists", and Arab thugs, for the express purpose of diverting everyone's attention from the fact that the Euro-American Empire has spent forever giving the Arabs a "mandible straining blow job..." because they don't have billions of cucumbers but billions of barrels of oil...
Hell yes...
Are J-Street and MJ wobbly kneed, Yekke dominated frauds, who are willing to fight to the last dead Isralie so they can go on sounding like they just stepped out of a Roth novel?
Damn straight...
The Two-State "solution" is starting to sound uncomfortably like all the other "solutions" to the "Jewish Problem"...
Here's a novel (sic!) idea: The PROBLEM is oil...and our unconscionable support for ossified and utterly sclerotic thugs who either believe in nothing except money, or actually believe that Christians and Jews (and Hindus, and Buddhists, and anyone who is Muslim but not Wahibist) are inferior, that women are property, and who use slave labor to run their "tribes with flags"...
It is shameful and sad...
and a clear and present danger to everyone...
So it goes...
October 21, 2009 1:44 PM | Reply | Permalink
who use slave labor to run their "tribes with flags"...
I got a sliver of hope on that front checking out the Angry Arab blog recently. While as one would expect, he had two sarcastically dismissive posts on Bernstein's op-ed, he did say in one of his complaints that Bernstein was "the equivalent of a Hamas propagandist" and he also has been ranting of late on the slave labor topic: Hanging from a tree: that lousy homeland called Lebanon and Foreign maids in Lebanon.
October 21, 2009 3:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yes, the Palestinians throwing off Zionist Occupation is exactly like a the "Final Solution."
My God, you are a twit.
October 21, 2009 5:22 PM | Reply | Permalink
I have come to expect MJ Rosenberg to act without journalistic integrity, with callous disregard for the facts and, while I do loathe psychoanalysis from afar, to be driven to write things that suggest that he is responding to something deeply-seeded--whether it bitterness, or hatred, or in response to some kind of long-term grievance of a personal nature--that is completely disconnected to the untruths, such as here, that he posts.
What I find particularly amusing are the folks, short and long-term sock puppets, who would defend this gibberish , or as Mr. Guerilla notes in response to our good friend SF Curt, who in true totalitarian fashion, presumes guilt of the much hated Israel in a manner that is completely disconnected to the due process and the presumpption of innocence that we Americans should constantly strive to preserve.
Could there be some inside baseball here vis-a-vis the FBI and Israel? Absolutely. Unfortunately, when you are responding to a post that is at best, propaganda by a blogger who just can't help twisting himself into a pretzel, you will always lose the forest through the trees.
Those who, in good faith, might wish to explore the extent to which the Israeli government may have interfered with bona fide investigations involving Americans who spy on behalf of Israel, have now been hindered by the typed of journalism practiced by MJ Rosenberg, and by his sock puppets who for whatever reason see a need to defend him at all costs.
And that's why we teach our children--the grown-up ones too--little diddlies like. . ."liar, liar pants on fire".
Ciao.
October 20, 2009 11:24 AM | Reply | Permalink
Are you really leaving....or are you just getting our hopes up?
October 20, 2009 11:29 AM | Reply | Permalink
Aside from your strip-mall psychoanalysis and whatever tendency I may have to putsch and tchov, I repeat: Do you truly doubt Israel would have Nozette's data had he connected with the Mossad? I'm not asking for a verdict, just some honesty.
October 20, 2009 11:44 AM | Reply | Permalink
Absolutely correct bslev. MJ doesn't know the first thing about journalism, and clearly doesn't have any interest in the truth. For some reason he's come to hate Israelis and/or Jews, and is engaged in a personal agenda. But it has nothing to do with the facts. It's extraordinary that Marshall would allow him to continue to post. And sad, given the impact it's having on the site's credibility.
October 20, 2009 2:02 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hi, Mikep. Nobody--and I mean nobody--articulates the views of the low-information reader better than you. You are direct, forceful, and utterly free of logical argument.
I award you the Order of the Non-Sequitur, First Class.
October 20, 2009 2:27 PM | Reply | Permalink
No, the post you are criticizing is logical: if MJ is ignoring or distorting facts, it will be damaging to the credibility of this site.
Your own free form insults masquerading as reasoned discourse are damaging to your own credibility.
October 21, 2009 2:30 AM | Reply | Permalink
Bslev.
To save Israel, Israel must be destroyed first. MJ doesn't have journalistic integrity, he doesn't have
any integrity. he is on the mission to save Israel from itself. He'll use any tools to save Israel by destroying Israel. But he is not dangerous. He is too much a clown, and fool to be dangerous. The only reason to read him is to laugh.
October 20, 2009 2:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
RE: "in true totalitarian fashion, presumes guilt of the much hated Israel in a manner that is completely disconnected to the due process and the presumpption of innocence that we Americans should constantly strive to preserve..." - bslev
PLEASE SEE: "Israeli activist Ezra Nawi sentenced to one month for protesting the occupation", by Adam Horowitz, 10/21/09
(excerpts)...Israeli activist Ezra Nawi was sentenced to a month in prison today on trumped up charges that he assaulted a police officer in July 2007 while protesting the demolition of a Palestinian home in the South Hebron Hills...
...The worst aspect of this sentence is that the judge also sentenced him to 6 months in prison if he violates law in the occupied territories in the next 3 years. Most of Ezra’s work and that of Ta’ayush in the occupied territories is about protest and nonviolently opposing the occupation, which in many cases translates to violation of law according to the Israeli legal system. In this way the state got, in my estimation, exactly what it was after...
ENTIRE POST - http://mondoweiss.net/2009/10/israeli-activist-ezra-nawi-sentenced-to-one-month-for-protesting-the-occupation.html
P.S. "Shared values", my a*s!
October 21, 2009 10:31 AM | Reply | Permalink
ALSO SEE - Open Letter to Obama: If you are serious about forging peace, then support Palestinian non-violent activism, by Adam Horowitz, 10/19/09
(excerpt)...On September 22nd, 33-year-old Mohammad was arrested by Israeli soldiers while trying to reenter the West Bank after spending several days at a conference in Norway. For more than 10 years Mohammad has been an activist for Palestinian human rights. During that time, he has been a leader in the Palestinian grassroots movement against the Wall that has swallowed up his community’s lands and livelihoods.
Mohammad, in the spirit of great human rights defenders like Mahatma Gandhi and Martin Luther King Jr., has worked tirelessly over the years to bring his people’s voice to the world. He has embraced and advocated non violent means to effect change – a tactic that was instrumental in bringing about the end of apartheid in South Africa. Freedom from occupation, oppression and discrimination are human rights to which all people are entitled. Mohammad, and many others like him, have done nothing more than work to secure these most basic guarantees – to give his people a chance to live.
Unfortunately, what is happening to Mohammad is all too common. Palestinians working for justice are constantly threatened with arbitrary detention, bodily injury and torture, and even death. Imagine having to fear speaking the truth, knowing that by doing so you put your very freedom at stake, simply because you stand up for what is right and what is just. History has shown us that peaceful activists are often the target of such policies, if only because they pose the most severe threat to the status quo. It happened in South Africa, it happened in India, and it happened in the United States as well...
ENTIRE LETTER - http://mondoweiss.net/2009/10/open-letter-to-obama-if-you-are-serious-about-forging-peace-then-support-palestinian-non-violent-activism.html
October 21, 2009 12:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
ALSO SEE: "Can you imagine the Times Op-Ed page running pieces supporting the Haditha massacre in Iraq?", by Philip Weiss, 10/21/09
(excerpt)...And this is my central point about the U.S. and Israel: We American liberals hold ourselves to a higher standard in countless ways when you compare our conduct to Israels, and then we throw our own experience out the window! We–and I mean the NYT and its community–got rid of Jim Crow here; we support it there. We work for gay marriage here; we support a country [over there] that won’t let Palestinians and Israelis marry one another...
ENTIRE POST - http://mondoweiss.net/2009/10/can-you-imagine-the-times-op-ed-page-running-pieces-supporting-the-haditha-massacre-in-iraq.html
October 21, 2009 12:59 PM | Reply | Permalink
AND SEE: "Israeli refusers follow South African footsteps in the struggle against apartheid", by SAHAR VARDI, 10/21/09
...Shministim are conscientious objectors. We are Israeli high-school graduates who refuse conscription into the military, and are repeatedly imprisoned as a result. We will not take part of the occupation of another people, the Palestinians, particularly when doing so goes against human values and cannot be explained on grounds of security. I am now 19 and have been jailed three times for my refusal, usually in solitary confinement because I refuse to wear military uniform in prison...
...The explosive reaction to our stay in South Africa is explained by the fact that Israelis are allergic to talk of South Africa. The spectre of Apartheid haunts the Israeli elite because they know that this is what exists, in modified form, in the occupied territories. Shulamit Aloni, our former education minister, said that Israel is “practicing its own, quite violent, form of Apartheid with the native Palestinian population.”
Michael Ben-Yair, a former attorney-general of Israel stated his view clearly that Israel is establishing, “an apartheid regime in the occupied territories”. Ami Ayalon, Israeli admiral and former internal security chief, said “Israel must decide quickly what sort of environment it wants to live in because the current model, which has some apartheid characteristics, is not compatible with Jewish principles.” The journalist Danny Rubinstein said at a UN conference in Brussels: “Israel today is an apartheid State with four different Palestinian groups: those in Gaza, East Jerusalem, the West Bank and Israeli Palestinians, each of which has a different status.” Even our leading newspaper Haaretz wrote an editorial last year saying, “The interim political situation in the territories has crystallized into a kind of apartheid that has been ongoing for 40 years”...
ENTIRE ARTICLE - http://mondoweiss.net/2009/10/israeli-refusers-follow-south-african-footsteps-in-the-struggle-against-apartheid.html
October 21, 2009 1:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
RE: "in true totalitarian fashion, presumes guilt of the much hated Israel in a manner that is completely disconnected to the due process and the presumpption of innocence that we Americans should constantly strive to preserve..." - bslev
SEE: "State won't prosecute officers filmed beating Palestinians" - Haaretz - Israel News, 10/21/09
Deputy State Prosecutor Shai Nitzan rejected an appeal against the decision not to investigate Border Police officers who documented themselves abusing Palestinians...
...Yesh Din issued a sharp response on Tuesday. The organization's legal adviser, Michael Sfard, wrote to Zusman that, "Your position demonstrates unprecedented tolerance of abuse of people in custody by a person of authority, through the use of violence and humiliation."...
...The video clips in which the officers documented themselves beating and humiliating Palestinians in East Jerusalem were revealed over a year ago, and appear to have been filmed in July 2007 and August 2008. One clip shows an armed Border Police officer hitting a Palestinian detainee on the back of the head. Another shows a different officer forcing a Palestinian youth to salute. Yesh Din, which made the clips public, said they were found in a cell phone apparently lost by one of the officers...
[NOTE - 'DOMINANT' SADISTS LOVE TO MEMORIALIZE THE HUMILIATION OF THEIR 'SUBMISSIVE' SUBJECTS BY TAKING PHOTOS/VIDEOS. - J.L.D.]
THE MARQUIS - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marquis_de_Sade
HAARETZ ARTICLE - http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1122549.html
October 22, 2009 8:27 AM | Reply | Permalink
RE: 'DOMINANT' SADISTS LOVE TO MEMORIALIZE THE HUMILIATION OF THEIR 'SUBMISSIVE' SUBJECTS BY TAKING PHOTOS/VIDEOS.
ALSO SEE, FROM HAARETZ, 11/16/08: (excerpt) ...Last week, soldiers from the Golani infantry brigade posted a video on YouTube depicting a blindfolded Palestinian being forced to repeat phrases in Hebrew as the soldiers manning the checkpoint laugh in the background.
One of the lines is: "Golani will bring you a log to stick up your ass."
As the detainee repeats the words, the soldiers are heard laughing raucously in the background....
ARTICLE / VIDEO - http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1037217.html
October 22, 2009 8:39 AM | Reply | Permalink
RE: "Golani will bring you a log to stick up your ass."
EXPLANATORY NOTE: The 'Golani Brigades' are considered to be the über-elite of the Israeli forces. All the young Israeli dudes want to be 'Golani' so that they can get in on the "fun" (the sadistic fun) and impress the "girls" with their faux manliness.
October 22, 2009 8:56 AM | Reply | Permalink
RE: "Golani will bring you a log to stick up your ass."
MY COMMENT: Imagine having to go through this to travel a few kilometers from one village in Judea to the next (and assuming one is not a masochist).
October 22, 2009 9:02 AM | Reply | Permalink
> FROM 'AMERICANS FOR PEACE NOW' (APN): The Israeli-Palestinian conflict has innumerable costs. One of them is the psychological stress on Israeli society, which is gradually becoming more violent and more brutal.
This summer, a gunman killed two young people at a Tel Aviv gay and lesbian center. A month earlier, a settler attacked a team of Peace Now activists who were surveying West Bank settlement construction. Last fall, militants tried to assassinate Professor Zeev Sternhell, a supporter of Peace Now.
This list, unfortunately, could go on.
APN just released a video in which Ori Nir relates the brutalization of Israeli society to incidents he witnessed when he covered the West Bank as a reporter twenty years ago.
> Click here to watch the video - http://peacenow.org/entries/stopping_the_brutalization_of_israeli_society
> Click here to read a letter on the subject by Ori - http://peacenow.org/entries/ori_nir_letter_09_09
Ori's comments speak powerfully to the need to push for peace for Israel's sake.
October 22, 2009 4:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
RE: 'DOMINANT' SADISTS LOVE TO MEMORIALIZE THE HUMILIATION OF THEIR 'SUBMISSIVE' SUBJECTS BY TAKING PHOTOS/VIDEOS.
MY COMMENT: Apparently the heroic soldiers of the IDF did not have a video camera handy when this Jewish settler (with the complicity of the IDF) dumped human waste on this wonderful Jewish Israeli-Brit.
FROM "THE INDEPENDENT" (U.K.): "Jews protect Palestinians in harvest of hate", By Donald Macintyre in Awarta, West Bank, 10/10/08
Israelis cross religious divide to shelter olive farmers from settlers' attacks
(excerts) In the shade of the trees where they have been picking olives all morning, in this wadi, south-east of Nablus, a Palestinian farmer, Jamal Otman Koarik, and two of his daughters share a lunch of home-baked bread, zatar, oil, courgettes and salad with three visitors. It's a bucolic scene that could have happened any time in the past century. But what makes it notable in 2008 is that the guests who have been helping Mr Koarik pick the olives are Israeli Jews: a rabbi, an anthropologist and a youth worker, Hellela Siew.
Born in Tel Aviv, Ms Siew served in the army, took a university degree, then a teacher's diploma. Thirty-six years ago, she took the tough decision to emigrate to London, telling her parents: "I won't come back until there's peace." Ms Siew, who is now 64, remains an Israeli citizen but now lives with her British husband in Hebden Bridge. She has kept to her word, except that each autumn she comes back to stay in her hometown with her relatives and spends each day of the two-month harvest season picking olives on Palestinian farmland in the West Bank......
.....Last year, she was in a group in the South Hebron Hills confronted by settlers who fired shots from a pistol and an M16 assault rifle, despite the presence of the army and police. "Then one of the soldiers said, 'Look, one of them is coming down with a jug of water for you'. The settler emptied the jug over me. It was full of human sh*t."......
ENTIRE ARTICLE - http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/jews-protect-palestinians-in-harvest-of-hate-956706.html
October 22, 2009 9:13 AM | Reply | Permalink
SEE ALSO: "At Olive Harvest, Rabbis Take on Settlers", by Mel Frykberg, 10/22/09
(excerpt) AWARTA, West Bank — Away from the media spotlight that focuses on the widening chasm between Israelis and Palestinians, a group of Israeli humanists is quietly working to break down barriers with their Palestinian neighbors. Rabbi Arik Ascherman, director of Israel’s Rabbis for Human Rights (RHR), has been used as a human shield, arrested, and beaten up several times by Israeli security forces while defending Palestinians. He has also been stoned by Palestinians who mistook him for a settler.
Every year during the Palestinian olive season in the autumn months, Palestinian farmers have been subjected to escalated violence by some of the half-million Israeli settlers who live in illegal settlements scattered all over the West Bank, including East Jerusalem. Much of the Palestinian farmers’ land has been expropriated by the Israeli authorities for enlargement of settlements and to establish new ones. The Israeli government recently began laying foundations in 12 settlements for new buildings, while other construction continues in a total of 34 settlements. Areas around the settlements have been declared closed military zones by the Israeli Defense Forces (IDF).
Groups of vigilante settlers, often protected by the IDF, have set fire to swathes of Palestinian agricultural land, cut down trees, beaten up farmers, and killed some of their livestock...
...Hellela Siew, 65, an Israeli now resident in the UK, travels to Israel each year to partake in the olive harvesting. During a previous harvest she had to be taken to hospital after she was hit over the head with an iron bar by an Israeli security guard from one of the nearby settlements. On another occasion settlers threw stones and human excrement at her and other volunteers, while shooting into the air...
ENTIRE ARTICLE - http://original.antiwar.com/frykberg/2009/10/21/at-olive-harvest-rabbis-take-on-settlers/
October 22, 2009 1:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
RE: "in true totalitarian fashion, presumes guilt of the much hated Israel in a manner that is completely disconnected to the due process and the presumpption of innocence that we Americans should constantly strive to preserve..." - bslev
SEE: "Israeli Police Don Arab Disguises", By JONATHAN COOK, 10/22/09
Notorious Army Method to be Used Inside Israel
(excerpt) Civil rights groups in Israel have expressed outrage at the announcement last week that a special undercover unit of the police has been infiltrating and collecting intelligence on Israel’s Arab minority by disguising its officers as Arabs. It is the first public admission that the Israeli police are using methods against the country’s 1.3 million Arab citizens that were adopted long ago in the occupied territories, where soldiers are regularly sent on missions disguised as Palestinians.
According to David Cohen, the national police commissioner, the unit was established two years ago after an assessment that there was “no intelligence infrastructure to deal with the Arab community”. He said that, in addition, undercover agents had been operating in East Jerusalem for several years to track potential terrorists.
Israel’s Arab leaders denounced the move as confirmation that the Arab minority was still regarded by the police as “an enemy” – a criticism made by a state commission of inquiry after police shot dead 13 unarmed Arab demonstrators inside Israel and wounded hundreds more at the start of the second intifada in 2000...
ENTIRE ARTICLE - http://www.counterpunch.org/cook10222009.html
October 22, 2009 6:12 PM | Reply | Permalink
CONTINUED FROM ABOVE:
...Secret agents disguised as Arabs – known in Hebrew as “mista’aravim” – were used before Israel’s founding...More recently, however, the army’s mista’aravim have come to notice because of allegations that they are being used as agents provocateurs, especially in breaking up peaceful protests by Palestinians in the West Bank against the separation wall.
In April 2005, during a demonstration at the village of Bilin, north of Jerusalem, Palestinians throwing stones at soldiers were revealed to be mista’aravim. They were filmed blowing their cover shortly afterwards by pulling out pistols to make arrests. The army later admitted it had used mista’aravim at the demonstration.
Palestinians claim that stone-throwing by mista’aravim is often used to disrupt or discredit peaceful demonstrations and justify the army’s use of rubber bullets and live ammunition against the protesters in retaliation...
SOURCE - http://www.counterpunch.org/cook10222009.html
October 22, 2009 6:27 PM | Reply | Permalink
I think there's a case of Goldstone Derangement Syndrome happening here, because I see the hasbaristas are all up in a tizzy lately, and here, falling all over themselves to deny that this has *anything* to do with Israel. However, Nozette, in fact, worked for an aerospace company owned by the Israeli govt. And, so, from the complaint:
I wonder what name I'll be called by pointing out this fact?
October 20, 2009 11:35 AM | Reply | Permalink
Careful reader....or anti-Semite.
I guess it depends on who's doing the calling. Facts, particularly when they are embarassing, are difficult things.
October 20, 2009 12:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
mythbuster,
Myths are stubborn things. We are loath to let them go from warm embrace.
October 20, 2009 1:14 PM | Reply | Permalink
Myths are very important. And formative. Used correctly, they give people meaning. Every nation has a national mythology.
However, they also become a trap. The die-hard supporters of the IDF on this page are trapped by the myth that the IDF is "the most moral army in the world."
If true, then esteemed jurist Richard Goldstone must be a liar; otherwise, his findings contradict the myth.
October 20, 2009 2:34 PM | Reply | Permalink
So one of our national myths may be that we don't spy and that nations which do are evil? Or, if I may be so bold as to interpret your thinking, it's okay by you if we spy but not if Israel does.
October 21, 2009 2:33 AM | Reply | Permalink
AJM, I am a citizen of the US. I guess I have never felt the need to equate Israel to the US.
October 21, 2009 12:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
No, only to apply a double standard based on anti-Semitism.
October 21, 2009 10:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yep. Cognitive dissonance makes it hard to see the error in our myth takes.
October 20, 2009 4:03 PM | Reply | Permalink
For the record, I submit that this blogpost was edited by the blogger without announcement. It was changed so that it no longer contains the implication that Israel was caught with its hand in the cookie jar. Query: Does anyone deny alteration of the post? Does the blogger? Can you say Kremlin?? :)
October 21, 2009 10:19 AM | Reply | Permalink
Yes, we can say "Kremlin," just as easily as we can say "facile," "sloppy," and "ridiculous" about any comparison of TPM to the Soviet Union or Putin's Russia.
October 21, 2009 12:46 PM | Reply | Permalink
See smiley face at end of post, which reflects that I'm employing the kind of snark you live by. And stop hiding your guy behind TPM Cafe; my criticisms are directed at your guy and have nothing to do with Josh Marshall et al.
October 21, 2009 2:56 PM | Reply | Permalink
Now the blogger appears to have learned a lesson and announces that he has, at least for the third time, changed his blogpost. But, still, in yet another display of utter disingenuousness, the blogger twists the objections of at least some of us who objected as being a defense of the alleged spy. From what I read, most of the objectors began with the original blogpost's assertion, at least by horsesense implication, that Israel was involved in this latest scam. I conclude with the following and return to my day job:
1. An individual has been indicted which,presumably is based on probable cause that he committed a crime. I see nobody defending that individual in the myriad posts above, thereby rendering the bloggers third amended blogpost suggesting the contrary completely disingenuous. I will submit that most Americans, as they should, would agree that this individual is entitled to a presumption of innocence (though again I don't see anyone making that point above and this commenter certainly did not). The blogger suggests otherwise in classic disingenuous red-herring fashion.
2. The Department of Justice states unequivocally in their press release that there is no allegation of wrongdoing by the State of Israel. I submit that the blogger, in his first blog subsequently changed without notice, implied unambiguously to the contrary. Perhaps the best evidence comes from Don Bacon, the initial commenter and no friend of the State of Israel but an honest poster in my experience, who calls the blogger out on this point.
3. In a desperate attempt to salvage his credibility, the blogger typecasts all who challenge him into a single stereotype, just as the rabid right-wingers do to those who challenge them. [The WHO are not only brilliant musicians, they were perceptive about politics as well.] And that is a dang shame and ultimately has led to the demise of his credibility with all but a very tiny subset of those who used to comment on his blogs (most of whom were not Israel right or wrongers and, in fact, were to the contrary). And it's too bad; the blogger could have been a contender.
October 21, 2009 11:25 AM | Reply | Permalink
bslev,
Israel was not a party to the sting. Check.
No one is supporting Nozette's alledged spying attempt. Check.
Nozette is quoted as saying he thought he'd been working with Israel's intel "all along." So it sure looks like Israel is involved in Nozette's apparently long spying career, just not in the sting. That is a smart way for the FBI to go as it makes for a more easily proved case.
October 21, 2009 2:40 PM | Reply | Permalink
I don't discount that possibility.
October 21, 2009 2:58 PM | Reply | Permalink
Gee, Bruce, you should've quit like you promised, after your brilliant 'liar, liar pants on fire' tantrum above.
You persist in claiming there was no connection to Israel when the complaint plainly states otherwise:
So, the actual case against Nozette contains a first-person account that directly contradicts your wishful thinking that Israel is somehow not involved. He worked for a defense contractor owned by the State of Israel for six years, and this is how he himself characterizes his position. How can you twist this around? Answer, you can't, so you ignore me, and others who bring proof that counters your hasbara.
Second, let's take on this bullshit notion that MJ is a journalist; he's not, he's a commentator, and his posts are op-ed pieces.
Third, and finally, let's address the phony 'innocent until proven guilty' canard. Guess what? This isn't a court of law, and MJ isn't a lawyer. You are just trying to obfuscate in any manner possible, and it's quite desperate smelling. For all we know, this guy is the new Jonathan Pollard.
If anything, MJ is being too diplomatic. Here's what Col. Pat Lang said about this matter on his blog Sic Semper Tyrannis:
He should be hanged for espionage. "pendu dans ses propres tripes" "pour encourager les autres"
And later, in the comments, Col. Lang gives his expert view of Pollard:
Here's a clue: defending spies who are caught selling US secrets is no way to influence Americans.
October 21, 2009 2:58 PM | Reply | Permalink
"How can you twist this around? Answer, you can't, so you ignore me, and others who bring proof that counters your hasbara."
I generally ignore you since you are the guy who wrote on these pages that the Gaza Strip was no different than the Warsaw Ghetto. Remember that? So after this, you may have the last word because corresponding with you makes me ill.
But to answer your question, read the Justice Department press release, in which it is stated unequivocally that Israel is not alleged to have engaged in any wrongdoing. That is not to say that Israel has not and did not engage in wrongdoing. But I read the press release and so too should you.
October 21, 2009 3:09 PM | Reply | Permalink
Bslev, I love your obsession with me. It's so flattering.
You read everything I write and it drives you crazy.
I think you and my mom are the only people who read every single thing I write.
October 21, 2009 11:43 AM | Reply | Permalink
Hopefully, your mom, like me, reads quite a bit more than your blog entries. I do indeed read what you write, and I wish I could say, as I thought in the beginning, that reading what you wirte would teach me something about advancing the cause of peace in Israel and Palestine. Needless to say, I have come to conclude otherwise.
You are correct that what you write often raises my blood pressure. Unfortunately, that for you appears to be an end in itself. I reiterate that you have squandered an opportunity to bring people together. Such unity, however, would apparently leave you with no purpose. In the end, I can't help feeling sorry for you and, honestly, I end up feeling guilty because you are such a pathetically easy target to take on. You really should work on that. Ultimately, however, you continue to be the master of your own destiny.
October 21, 2009 2:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
Good one.
October 21, 2009 4:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
" In the end, I can't help feeling sorry for you and, honestly, I end up feeling guilty because you are such a pathetically easy target to take on."
Projection?
October 21, 2009 5:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
Mythbuster, Bslev is just hurting. He has the weight of Jewish history on his oh-so-humble shoulders.
October 22, 2009 2:05 PM | Reply | Permalink
Humility is a quality that several here could do with...
Including you, MJ. You can't learn because you are convinced you know everything.
That is sad. This cheap shot at Bruce shows that the only one that is "hurting" here is you.
Spite is something you can never resist, and is likely holding you back. Try to lose it.
October 22, 2009 7:47 PM | Reply | Permalink
Chicken, thanks, that was very gracious of you. It's been a long time and I hope you and little chicken are doing well. I still remember all the fun we had at the Obama soiree way back when. Lots of water under the bridge since then, and some of it good.
I just turned off the TV having watched the Yankees fall quickly behind, come back, move ahead, and blow it. So I'm kind of in a pissy mood but reading your defense warms my heart.
MJ is correct that he knows how to push my buttons, and he succeeded, and as a result I have been posting in the past couple of weeks after taking a healthy break (which is not to say that I haven't been reading what you guys have to say on the right side of the page during that time).
This is a very momentous time in American Jewish politics, and many of us who support the new kid on the block, J Street, are finding all kinds of things to fight about. Unfortunately, for some, the fight is all that matters. I really and truly have no desire to fall into that trap. And, as usual, I wind up feeling frustrated that I entered the fray in the first place.
In any event, I appreciate you taking my back because I think I'm getting a little too old and crotchety for this! Much more productive I think to yell at the TV during the ball game. :) All the best.
Bruce
October 22, 2009 11:46 PM | Reply | Permalink