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UN Human Rights Council PASSES Goldstone Report on Gaza War Crimes ++ Israel Latest Settlement Spree

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The United Nations Human Rights Council today voted for a resolution that finds that Israel a committed war crimes during the Israeli invasion last December.

According to the New York Times, "On breaches of the Geneva Conventions as grave as those alleged in the report --including its finding that Israeli soldiers deliberately targeted civilians -- any nation that has agreed to the conventions has jurisdiction to investigate the crimes in their national courts. The Goldstone report recommends that those nations do so, setting up a possible situation of cases being brought against Israeli officials elsewhere." (I wish the UN would pass something like this on Iraq. That would mean that Cheney, Libby, Feith, Cheney, Bolton and company could be snatched up in Europe and dragged in chains off to The Hague).

Twenty-five members voted in favor of the resolution that singled out Israel for refusing to cooperate with the UN mission led by South African jurist Richard Goldstone. The United States voted no.

This is a significant blow to the Netanyahu government. It has attacked both the Goldstone report and Goldstone himself with unusual virulence, even threatening to terminate the peace process if the resolution passes.

Its approach - and that of the United States (which has stood with Israel on the war crimes issue) - falls into the "shoot the messenger" category. Some 1,400 Palestinians (including 320 children) were killed in Gaza while only nine Israeli soldiers died (three by friendly fire). Israeli soldiers themselves testified that they were ordered to keep Israeli casualties down at all costs, which they interpreted as meaning that they did not have to take care to avoid civilian casualties. The Goldstone report says that they didn't.

Israel now needs to investigate its army's behavior itself.

The UN vote demonstrates that it can no longer operate in the Palestinian areas with impunity. As the old phrase goes, "the whole world is watching."

Unfortunately, the United States has chosen not to.

Meanwhile, Israel is defying Obama and going on a settlement spree.

crossposted Media Matters Action Network


54 Comments

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gideon levy on haaretz about the goldstone report: The Golda Wars.

my favorite line: David fired Qassams at Goliath, Goliath responded fiercely. You can also call a match between Mike Tyson and a 5-year-old boxing, but the proportions, oh the proportions.

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There can be no more serious investigation than this. As a Jew, and a Herzl Zionist, I have the right to know what the Likud government of Israel has done in my name.

If Israeli soldiers killed three hundred children, I want to know exactly why, for there is no obvious reason to kill children except in genuine self-defense.

I do not want to be fobbed-off with vague mutterings of 'human shields' and 'threats to our forces'.

If Israel has a professional army, then I want to know precisely why they killed hundreds of civilians in three bloody weeks.

I want to know if those troops are masochistic automatons, or if they are genuine forces for the defense of Israel.

I and others want to know and want to know soon. Otherwise, Israel will become a pariah state that will only be rehabilitated by the voluntary production of those responsible to be judged innocent or guilty before an international court.

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have the right to know what the Likud government of Israel has done in my name. Moron, Likud was not in the government during that war.
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have the right to know what the Likud government of Israel has done in my name.
Moron, Likud was not in the government during that war.
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. "As a Jew, and a Herzl Zionist, I have the right to know what the Likud government of Israel has done in my name"

Do you rerally need an answer? They are saving you from the swords of the Cossacks, and the boxcars and camps of the Nazis.
So shut up and put some more money in the blue box!

Look, I don't want to bring you down from your righteous high, bubele, but it's been well over fifty years now. Did you think that Zionists had some special magical method of stealing a country which leaves the inhabitants unharmed with all their property and posessions? No, they did it the old-fashioned way:

http://lawrenceofcyberia.blogs.com/news/2009/01/a-land-without-a-people.html

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Goldstone on Goldstone: "Nothing proven" (Arlen Specter, anyone?). Read it and weep (for real, this is deadly serious stuff):

Goldstone’s findings themselves have, meanwhile, been left largely unexamined. The 36 specific incidents he focuses on in his report paint a disturbing picture of an Israeli army purposefully targeting unarmed civilians. But the facts of the report are built mostly on testimonies of Palestinian eyewitnesses, which have received little scrutiny or verification. Critics also call attention to parts of the commission’s work that they say was sloppily done, without sufficient cross-examination and double checking of information. Alternative interpretations of the incidents described are not considered, let alone fully explored.

Israel’s decision to refuse to cooperate with the Goldstone Commission as it was doing its work—a decision questioned even by some critics of the report—doubtless played a role in this. Tellingly, in an interview with the Forward on October 2, Goldstone himself acknowledged the tentative nature of his findings.

“Ours wasn’t an investigation, it was a fact-finding mission,” he said, sitting in his Midtown Manhattan office at Fordham University Law School, where he is currently visiting faculty. “We made that clear.”

Goldstone defended the report’s reliance on eyewitness accounts, noting his mission had cross-checked those accounts against each other and sought corroboration from photos, satellite photos, contemporaneous reports, forensic evidence and the mission’s own inspections of the sites in question.

For all that gathered information, though, he said, “We had to do the best we could with the material we had. If this was a court of law, there would have been nothing proven.”

Goldstone emphasized that his conclusion that war crimes had been committed was always intended as conditional. He still hopes that independent investigations carried out by Israel and the Palestinians will use the allegations as, he said, “a useful road map.”

Just unbelievable. Anyone with a shred of curiosity about this should, indeed must, read the whole piece.
http://www.forward.com/articles/116269/

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Any citations from publications not totally in the Zionist camp, Armchair Gonorrhea?

If it's the truth, it should just be limited to publications closely aligned with Israel, right?

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Are you suggesting the quotes attributed to Goldstone are made up? Of course not, just more "drive by" propaganda from mythperpetuater.

And, FYI, the Forward is actually by the standards of ordinary folk, a fairly progressive voice on the I/P Israel - not afraid to criticize Israeli policies, opposed to the occupation, in favor of more Israeli concessions - unless your idea of a progressive voice is that Israel should not exist.

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only nine Israeli soldiers died
I see, you are so sad. Don't worry, Your friends will have more chances to kill Jews. Not everything is lost.
Israeli soldiers themselves testified that they were ordered to keep Israeli casualties down at all costs
Israeli are really monsters. This is a first time in Human history soldiers were ordered to keep own casualties down. In contrast, according to MJ, Hamas ordered its fighters to protect Israeli civilians at all cost. THis is why so few Israeli civilians were hurt.
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Boris Sock Puppet: Just because the IDF claims they ordered their troops "to keep civilian casualties down" doesn't have anything to do with their documented atrocities. They either committed them, or they did not.

I guess Milosevic should have papered his files better. So long as he he had some CYA memos in Belgrade, he couldn't have committed war crimes, right?

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They either committed them, or they did not.
They have committed less atrocities than Obama has done in Afghanistan.
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No contradictions in that answer, no sir!

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Once again, for all his talk of even handedness on the Israeli/Palestinian circular firing squad, Obama steps in on the side if Israel. Not really supprised, just pissed we have another moral equivocator as Pres..

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Obama's diplomacy is finished. He will deliver nothing.

Examples: He cancelled US air force maneuvres with Turkey because the Turks didn't want the IAF to participate. How craven is that? So I guess America doesn't have an independent foreign policy at all.

He also opposed the Goldstone report and backed down on settlements.

Bibi--to his credit (and to our shame as Americans)--has already nailed Obama's balls to the doorway outside of his office.

At this point, I would prefer that Obama stop helping. He will deliver nothing. And as he fails, he will try to pressure the Arabs--the usual tactic of a failing and weak US president--and then blame the Arabs for lack of "progress."

It took Bush about 2 years to totally cave. Obama surrendered after only 9 months. That really is change we can believe in.

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As Juan Cole said, 'Both the Israeli government and Hamas rejected the report as biased, which is a pretty good indication that it is even-handed.'

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Cole's absurd comment proves nothing. It's also incorrect:

Ismail Haniyeh, Hamas prime minister in the Gaza Strip, on Monday accused Abbas of betraying the Palestinian people and of being an accomplice in the Israeli plot to neutralize the Goldstone report. At a specially convened press conference in Gaza, Haniyeh went on to call Abbas' actions "unprecedented."

http://haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1119114.html

So if you accept Cole's logic, that means the report was biased against Israel (which, whatever your view on the conflict, is painfully obvious from the composition of its members, its methodology, and its contents). How else do you explain Hamas' opposition to Abbas seeking to have the report quashed?

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I take Cole's larger point, which is that the Goldstone report details atrocities on both sides. Let's let the sunshine in, and let the magnitude of each side's complicity receive its due.

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The United Nations Human Rights Council today passed a report that finds that both Israel and Hamas committed war crimes during the Israeli invasion last December
Israel now needs to investigate its army's behavior itself.
Should Hamas now needs to investigate its army's behavior itself?
The UN vote demonstrates that it can no longer operate in the Palestinian areas with impunity. As the old phrase goes, "the whole world is watching."
Does UN vote demonstrates that Hamas can no longer commit war crimes?

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Unfortunately, the United States has chosen not to [watch war crimes]

That's because the US has conducted war crimes on a much grander scale than Israel, so any idea of prosecuting war crimes is anathema to the US.
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This is the last Israeli redoubt: If I'm guilty, you're guilty.

Not exactly a ringing endorsement of innocence.

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He's right though. And you're right. AnnaA uses this argument all the time, except of course in favor of atrocities--the US kills innocent people, Israel kills innocent people, so killing innocent people is just something we should all overlook.

Anyway, one reason the US government wouldn't support trying Israeli officials in an international court is because of the precedent it would set--from our government's POV, war crimes trials are supposed to be for dictators who have outlived their usefulness (or were never our friends at all). The last thing any American President is going to want to see is a precedent establishing that human rights law applies to everyone.

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So killing innocent people is just something we should all overlook.
I'm not saying that. I'm saying that we should start with countries that kill most of innocent people, than go down the chain of murderous countries. I think, it's fair.
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You're not interested in fairness AnnaA. You're interested in distracting attention from Israel's crimes, not seeing that Bush and Cheney are tried for the crime of aggressive war or torture.

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Being interested in fairness presupposes having a clue what it means.

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You're wasting your time Anna. You're perfectly correct. It is beyond hypocritical for a nation that has murdered millions to be so critical of other nations, no matter what they've done. But these people don't care about "fair" or "justice" or the "law." They're bigots, anti-semites with serious psychological problems. Their hatred and bigotry consumes them. All they're interested in is attacking Jews, and the things that Israel represents: human rights, women's rights, gay rights, the rule of law, democracy and so on. These ideas terrify little, uneducated right-wing minds, and they simply can't cope with them. I admire you for trying though, but it's best to ignore these people, as the rest of the world is doing.

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Mythbuster, as you know, that either a No.3 (You Suck) or a No.4 (Oy, The Whole World Sucks).

See, No.1 (Israel Rocks) and No.2 (Arabs Suck) are getting harder and harder to sell, so the Hasbaristas are leaning heavy on 3 and 4.
Would you like to know "how to make the case for Israel, and win!"? Well, just see:

http://jewssansfrontieres.blogspot.com/2008/07/how-to-make-case-for-israel-and-win.html

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Steve Clemons is in Jordan:

I have been repeatedly told that in the eyes of the Arab world, "Netanyahu won. Obama lost. Abbas lost."

They say that for a while Israel was showing a softer side, rolling back inspection points and harassing Palestinian workers and commuters to a lesser degree -- but things have reversed now.

One person told me that there are now checkpoints around Nablus -- and there hadn't been in a really long time. "These Nablus check points are brand new -- and no one is saying anything about them."

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It is true that the US has committed war crimes in virtually every field of combat, and to a limited extent you will always find aberrant soldiers, or guards, who enjoy humiliating, torturing and killing others, either combatants or civilians - and to such soldiers, there is no distinction.

However, the conduct of the IDF in Gaza was extraordinary in its ferocity, no matter that pro-Israelis vehemently insist otherwise. Most of these voluble deniers have never been in uniform, never mind been professional soldiers.

The killing of hundreds of defenseless children in Gaza, was uniquely evil and grotesque, given that the military conscripts who killed were the grandchildren of survivors of the Holocaust in which six million Jews, Gypsies, homosexuals and disabled - were murdered, just 70 years ago.

The ONLY valid reason to kill 300 children, or ANY children, is if those children posed a distinct and immediate threat to the life of the soldiers who killed them.

Those who carried out the killings have the option to present evidence that they were indeed under such threat of death and that they killed in genuine self-defense. To date, the IDF has declined to produce any evidence or to co-operate in the UN investigation.

It is NOT sufficient to claim that these killings were carried out because other armies have killed civilians.

The world needs evidence. Israel has claimed to be the 'only democracy in the Middle East'. Now is the time to fulfill that claim. Israel has claimed to have the 'most moral army in the world'. NOW is the time to prove that statement.

Otherwise, those responsible for gratuitously killing women, children and other civilians, must be brought before the International Criminal Court in the Hague to be proved innocent or guilty of war crimes.

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Are you or are you not bluecanary?

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take a look at what paying $115,740 to Rep. Ileana Ros-Lehtinen (Florida 18th District Republican Likud) by pro-israel PACS gets you:

This Is How The United States Shows Support To Israel!

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Over at the clown rodeo, formally known as the Human Rights Council, there is disappointment. Richard Goldstone is miffed:

Richard Goldstone condemned the U.N. Human Rights Council for endorsing his report while ignoring his findings on Hamas war crimes. The Human Rights Council voted 25 to 6 Thursday to endorse the report and recommend that other U.N. bodies heed its recommendations. The report recommends that Israel and authorities in the Gaza Strip prosecute fighters for alleged war crimes committed during last winter’s Gaza war and, should that not happen within six months, for the U.N. Security Council pursue such prosecutions. The Human Rights Council resolution cites only Israel.

The United States, Italy, the Netherlands, Hungary, Slovakia, and Ukraine voted against the resolution. The beacons of human rights that voted in its favor include Russia, China, Argentina, and Egypt. This is the “international community” in all its glory. This is the gang from whom the Obami hope to obtain consensus on a range of issues, from global warming to terrorism to Iran. Well, we see the sort of consensus that emerges when the community gathers for a pow-wow – it is inevitably anti-Israel.

Expecting anything better from the UN and especially the Human Rights Council (which Obama rejoined after the Bush administration had withdrawn) is foolish.
http://www.commentarymagazine.com/blogs/index.php/rubin/130581

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RE: "This is a significant blow to the Netanyahu government. It has attacked both the Goldstone report and Goldstone himself with unusual virulence..." - MJR

GOLDSTONE FACEBOOK GROUP
> Name - Richard J. Goldstone: Integrity Personified
> Category - Common Interest, Beliefs & Causes
> Description - A group for individuals who admire and respect Justice Goldstone.
> LINK - http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=152832719154

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RE: Its [the Netanyahu government] approach - and that of the United States (which has stood with Israel on the war crimes issue) - falls into the "shoot the messenger" category.

KLEIN: "Rather than prove its commitment to international law, the United States used its clout to smear the report as 'deeply flawed' and to strong-arm the Palestinian Authority into withdrawing a supportive resolution." - Naomi Klein

RATNER: "That the United States attacked the report, authored by Judge Goldstone, one of the pre-eminent jurists in the world, demonstrates that it is willing to debase both the law and a respected jurist in its effort to protect a client state, despite its crimes." - Michael Ratner, president of the Center for Constitutional Rights (based in N.Y.)

JUSTICE BRANDEIS ON 'GOVERNMENT AS THE OMNIPRESENT TEACHER'

U.S. Supreme Court Justice Louis D. Brandeis elaborated in Olmstead v. United States (1928): "In a government of law, the existence of the government will be imperiled if it fails to observe the law scrupulously. Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a lawbreaker, it breeds contempt for the law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy."

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The list of countries that voted FOR the Goldstone report to be accepted, represents substantially more than 50% of the entire global community of 6.5 billion.

Not a majority opinion to be ignored or treated lightly, and that global entity demands answers.

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How many millions civilians did countries, that voted FOR the Goldstone report, tortured and murder
over last 10 years?
For example:

Following his release, Hajuj claimed he had been tortured with electric shocks and with dogs, deprived of sleep and sexually assaulted in jail. He has also taken action against Libya before the UN Human Rights Commission.

http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5hCaKHxx7aMqGv_IQ_1747Igc41HA

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Your logic is that an Israeli soldier can kill 300 children in Gaza because a man claimed he had been tortured in Libya!

I have talked to thousands of British Jews who support Israel, but have yet to come across one as deranged as you appear to be regarding any valid criticism of Israel - even allowing for the fact that you may be paid by the Foreign Ministry.

It that latter fact is true, then I would expect a more intellectual argument other than Libya, Iran, Egypt, or even the US, regularly tortures political opponents - so why shouldn't we kill 300 Palestinian children?

Propaganda, to be effective, must essentially be believable by the majority - otherwise it is detrimental to the cause as it indicates desperation and lack of any cogent argument.

Regardless of your lack of substantive argument, I expect that those alleged guilty of war crimes in Gaza, from either side, will in due course be brought before the ICC. That would obviously include the then Israeli Prime Minister and the current Defense Minister. International justice has no boundary that stops at Tel Aviv.

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Why not start with bringing Obama, Gordon Brown and
Tony Blair t before the ICC for the crimes committed against civilians in Afghanistan and Iraq. International justice has no boundary that stops at Washington or London.

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Anna, babe, you shouldn't be stuck at No.4 (The Whole World Sucks) so early in the game. And you need to present it in a much more round-about way, for it to be effective. Just yelling "You suck, too!" is not gonna do it.

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In favour (25): Argentina, Bahrain, Bangladesh, Bolivia, Brazil, Chile, China, Cuba, Djbouti, Egypt, Ghana, India, Indonesia, Jordan, Mauritius, Nicaragua, Nigeria, Pakistan, Philippines, Qatar, Russia, Saudi Arabia, Senegal, South Africa, Zambia.

Basically, among democratic governments in Latin America, only Mexico abstained. Argentina, Bolivia, Brazil, Chile, and Nicaragua all have government with good human right records (one can quibble about "transparency" etc.)

In Asia, only Japan and South Korea abstained, and they were at cross currents of "we do not care" and our diplomatic influence, and I do not see why we should automatically snicker at India, Indonesia and Philippines.

In Africa, the split between supporting countries and abstaining shows among abstainers such "beacons of democracy" as Gabon and Burkina Faso, while supporting Ghana and South Africa both have good record on democracy and human rights.

In North America, one of the opposing countries is infamous for running secret torture programs in which people were vanishing without trace.

About 30 years ago, campaigns like Gaza were not unique, although followed by considerable oprobrium. In 1981, guerillas (who we would today call terrorists) attacked representatives of the legal government of El Salvador. In response, by American-trained Atlacatl Battalion killed more than 1000, what was later called El Mozote massacre, after one of the wiped-out villages. Afterwards, I do not really recall ANY government (apart from Israel) doing shit on such a scale. With possible exception of some infernal civil wars in Africa.


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I do not really recall ANY government (apart from Israel) doing shit on such a scale
Well, you have a very short memory, Piotr,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Second_Chechen_War#Civilian_casualties

The Chechen separatist sources in 2003 cited figures of some 250,000 civilians, and up to 50,000 Russian servicemen, killed during the 1994-2003 period. The rebel side also acknowledged about 5,000 separatist combatants killed as of 1999-2004, mostly in the initial phases of the war.

In November 2004, the chairman of Chechnya's pro-Moscow State Council, Taus Djabrailov, said over 200,000 people have been killed in the Chechen Republic since 1994, including over 20,000 children.[31] In August 2005, Djabrailov gave a conflicting figure of 160,000 killed, mostly Russians.[32]

In June 2005, Dukvakha Abdurakhmanov, a deputy prime minister in the Kremlin-controlled Chechen administration, said about 300,000 people have been killed during two wars in Chechnya over the past decade; he also said that more than 200,000 people have gone missing. Every resident of Chechnya has scores of relatives who have been killed or gone missing, he said.[33]

In September 2006, Anatoly Kulikov, deputy chairman of the Russian State Duma committee on security said that In the 12 years of our Russian antiterrorist war in the Chechen Republic, aggregate losses among the federal forces, illegal armed groups and civilians are estimated at about 45,000 people.[34]

In November 2006, self-exiled separatist leader Akhmed Zakayev said that "Putin has already killed more than 250,000 innocent Chechens".[35

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About Chechnya: while reliable statistics are not available, there was plenty of accounts of hot "two-sided" battles, and no accounts one-side massacres in the style and scale of El Mozote, or Gaza.

"It is only a matter of times befor David Petraeus, or Bob Gates, find themselves under attack...."

A simple question: is there a moral difference between El Mozote and Faluja?

Now, more complicated: if yes, why?

Most complicated: generalize.

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I see, somehow killing "250,000 innocent Chechens"
is hot "two-sided" battle, but Gaza is one-side massacre.

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You skipped the top of the Wiki page:

Estimates of casualties in the Second Chechen War vary wildly, from 25,000 to 200,000 civilian dead plus 8,000 to 40,000 Russian military. (Separate figures for Chechen military fatalities from the second war only are not yet referenced in this article.)

The ratio of estimated civilian losses to the losses of military personel can give some gouge on the purpose and character operation. Russian Federation was fighting well-armed and very determined opponents. Its forces surely committed a share of abuses for which they were criticised, and the fact that they prevented accurate accounting is nothing to praise them for.

In Gaza, IDF was basically inflicting material damage and casualties from a distance without any clear military goals. Thus it was more similar to El Mozote than to Chechnya war. If there was a "collateral damage" it consisted of Hamas activists somehow present among civilians who were the main target.

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Tactics deployed to hurt Israel inevitably cause collateral damage. It's a good thing that the United States, and a handful of European countries, have opposed the referral of Israel to a war crimes tribunal, but they aren't doing enough (and, of course, France and Great Britain absented themselves from the vote). They would do more, I think, if they understood that Israel represented a kind of test run for a uniquely nefarious idea. Israel may find itself in the docket soon, but the U.S., and Britain, and other Western democracies that are battling Islamist terror, may soon find themselves in similiar straits. Who could seriously argue that what happened in Gaza was unique? Talibs hide behind civilians in Afghanistan, and often those civilians get killed. It's only a matter of time before David Petraeus, or Bob Gates, find themselves under attack from the same forces that want to punish Israel for trying to defend itself from a state-sponsored terror group seeking its elimination.
http://jeffreygoldberg.theatlantic.com/

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I didn't see this particular post before I typed the one above, but it outlines perfectly why the Western countries aren't going to want to prosecute Israeli officials. I don't say this in sympathy with AnnaA, whose moral values are repulsive. It's just a fact that the US is guilty of massive war crimes in Iraq and Obama shows zero interest in prosecuting Bush Administration officials for them, and he certainly doesn't want to be held accountable for any air strikes in Afghanistan or Pakistan that might have been war crimes.

Human rights law is only applied to our enemies, not our friends. This is why I support war crimes trials for Israeli officials--not just because they deserve it, but because of the useful precedent it would set. Which is also why the US will not allow it to happen.

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I don't say this in sympathy with AnnaA, whose moral values are repulsive
We are in total agreement that Obama is far bigger war criminal than Olmert.
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I don't know enough to say that Obama is a bigger war criminal than Olmert. Maybe, maybe not. Bush certainly is, judging by scale alone. Qualitatively they are similar. I would like to see a thorough investigation into US military actions in both Iraq and Afghanistan under Bush and Obama and then we'd know, but that is something that is not going to happen.

As for our "agreement", you have no interest in human rights as such and your agreement just means that you've got a propaganda point you want to use to get Israel off the hook. I'd like to see Israel very firmly on the hook--if their war criminals are brought to justice, it's one step closer to the day when the same standards apply to everyone. It's not likely to happen, because Israeli war criminals and other Western war criminals have a common interest in not seeing any such precedent set. It's in their interest that war crimes trials be saved for out-of-power former dictators and low-ranking servicepeople.

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"Qualitatively they are similar"--I meant Bush and Olmert there. Both started unnecessary wars.

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Oh man, that is the furhest "stretch" for a No.4 (The whole world sucks) I've ever seen.

So basically, you are telling us, Anna, that we have no reason to expect any standard but the lowest from Israel. In that case, why the hell is it my concern? They want to be a shitty little country, I can't stop them. But as an American Jew, I damn sure don't want to pay for it, nor do I want my Gentile neighbors to be forced to support Israel either.
Are you telling me that I can expect, for the rest of my life, to be represented as a Jew by a country which commits war crimes, and expects the US to pay for it, and bear the consequences for it?
It won't fly, Anna. Oh it was possible when information could be restricted, but not any more. And as people find out more about Israeli society, they will not want to pay for the upkeep on that, either.
Well, except for those who want a theocracy in America. If I were you Anna, I would concentrate Hasbara real heavy on Christian Dominionists. It's a two-fer! They can point to Israel as a sucessfull religious government, and when the US emulates Israel, only with Gentiles in charge and Jews as second-class citizens, lot's more of us will be forced to make Aliyah. It's a win-win, huh?

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That, of course, is the strategy. Try to persuade the international community that Israel's war is their war. That way, they fight your wars, and pay for them.

But the Palestinian-Israeli conflict has no commonality whatsoever with the Taliban, Al Qaeda, Pakistan, Afghanistan, North Korea, ETA, the BNP in Britain or any other dissident groups.

The problem that the international community has with Israel is unique. There is no other country in the world that is armed by the US to suppress an indigenous population of millions who have at least an equal right to the land. Why America allows its legislature to be controlled by the pro-Israel lobby is inexplicable to non-Americans.

The state of Israel was originally envisaged to be a minority, autonomous, Jewish enclave running an agrarian economy within a greater Muslim land and in co-operation with its neighbors. Fast forward 60 years and we have an expansionist and belligerent Jewish state that demands hegemony in the Middle East and has been allowed by a succession of colluding American administrations since LBJ to build a massive secret nuclear arsenal outside of the NPT that is not subject to any regulation from the IAEA.

No! Israel is unique in very many ways and its wars are not our wars. It is not fighting international terrorism, but it is the focus and excuse for it.

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It's very good reviling post. COLINDALE doesn't have a problem with military tactics used by Israel. COLINDALE has a problem with Israel. According to COLINDALE, Israel has no right to use any military force whatsoever.

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The state of Israel was originally envisaged to be a minority, autonomous, Jewish enclave running an agrarian economy within a greater Muslim land and in co-operation with its neighbors

Yes all that, Israel was to be, within the context of a Middle East in which the Western colonial powers were there to stay. But then the Western powers all left, leaving Israel all by it's lonesome, and responsible for its own situation. Under those circumstances, Israel is impossible. And Israel is falling apart right now.

You guys need to get familiar with "ziocaine". Ziocaine is a self-produced drug which American Zionist supporters find very satisfying, even addictive. That's what Anna is flying high on. Notice that any reality about Israel's situation is completely absent from her megillah as is any concept that Israel must be responsible for itself!
Now, do you think Anna runs her whole life, deals with life issues on the same basis she uses to think about Israel? Hell no, she'd end up in a jail, or a psych ward. But with Israel, you get ziocaine, and that introduces a whole new set of "permissions" and "releases" that some people seem to find irresistibly satisfying.
That is Anna's brain on Ziocaine.
The long-term effects are very similar to cocaine-and-alcohol abuse; periods of violent grandiosity, a grandiosity of violence, alternating with periods of paranoia, and an increasingly desensitised moral and ethical outlook.
Don't let your kids get started on that stuff!

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Did I here you or the HRW demand the Hamas to act the same way??? Of course not! Everyone can kill the Jew but the Jew mustn't defend itself. We back at the 30th.... how lucky the Jews that now days they have a state and an army that leftish Jews in America feel safe to blame the Jews in any case and any time.... at least say thanks to Israel which hers very existence makes you safe acting against her and against democracies !!!!

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