TPMCafe
« Bill Clinton: CEO of the Global Problems Industry | Home | Handling Victims With Sensitivity »

Israel-Palestine: Obama Wants "Final Status" Negotiations Now

user-pic

The American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC) seems not to have watched President Obama's televised statement following his meetings with Israeli Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu and Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas. AIPAC issued a statement citing "dramatic steps" the Netanyahu government has taken "to improve the everyday lives of Palestinian civilians...."

It concludes that "Israel is taking meaningful steps and tangible risks for peace" and urges "the Arab states and the Palestinians to match Israel's commitment to peace with actions of their own."

AIPAC cites the Arab states before the Palestinians because its focus these days is not on any sort of an Israeli-Palestinian agreement but on benefits that can be secured from the Saudis (and other oil-rich Arab states) in advance of any concessions by Israel.

The statement overlooks the fact that President Obama gave no evidence whatsoever that he shares the AIPAC take. In fact, he said that Israelis and Palestinians "cannot continue the same patterns of taking tentative steps forward and then stepping back."

Writing in Ha'aretz, correspondent Aluf Benn says, "In his statement, Obama explained that the Americans are not interested in suggestions raised by Israel - interim agreements which mainly benefit Netanyahu. He also made clear that he does not accept Abbas' refusal to enter into talks until Israel halts settlement construction."

The President has simply had it and is ready to skip intermediate steps and get down to business. "Permanent status negotiations must begin and begin soon."

This is good news, and should not be obfuscated by those determined to preserve the status quo.

The President's call for "final status" negotiations now means that he understands the dangers of getting bogged down in definitions of settlements, natural growth, and what constitutes incitement.

No, President Obama wants to move on to final status issues.

Those issues are Israel borders, the status of Jerusalem, security guarantees for both sides, the refugee question and the establishment of a Palestinian state in the West Bank, Gaza, and East Jerusalem.

In Aluf Benn's words: Obama "read his statement as a command directed at the two sides," a command to get the final negotiations moving. The sooner the better.

Cross-posted Media Matters Actions Network


26 Comments

| Leave a comment
user-pic

It is too soon to pass judgment except to say that there are hopeful indications, in marked to contrast to the utter absence thereof during 2001-08. Nonetheless, it needs to be borne in mind that what we have so far from Obama amounts to all talk and no action. Today marks no break in the patter, unless you count a forced handshake as action.

user-pic

Pattern that should have been (not "patter"), e.g. Pun unintended.

user-pic
But given the fact that the Palestinian Authority and Abbas are in no position to make any deal with Israel no matter where such an agreement placed the borders between Israel and a Palestinian state, the Obama-orchestrated dog-and-pony show staged for the press today is, in fact, simply more of the same. Like George W. Bush’s Annapolis Summit, held in the fall of 2007, the pictures and the talk about the need for progress are utterly futile. After that meeting, Netanyahu’s predecessor Ehud Olmert offered Abbas pretty much the deal that the “experts” on the Middle East always claim is the only solution: a two-state plan, with the Palestinians getting virtually all the West Bank as well as part of Jerusalem. But Abbas was no more able to say yes to this than Arafat was when Ehud Barak offered him almost as much in the summer of 2000.

What is different about the current situation is that when this president makes “evenhanded” statements in which he poses a moral equivalence between Israel and the Palestinians, his coolness to the Jewish state during his nine months in office leads one to believe that he really means it. Obama’s obsession with trying to halt the building of Jewish housing not only in Jerusalem but also in the West Bank (parts of which were accepted by the Bush administration as permanently belonging to Israel in exchange for Israel’s withdrawal from Gaza) has not made the Palestinians more amenable to peace. On the contrary, the more Washington backs away from the Israelis, the more likely Abbas (not to mention his Hamas rivals who rule Gaza and threaten his hold on the West Bank) is to stand pat and wait for the Americans to deliver more Israeli concessions to him on a silver platter. And given that leftist Jewish groups, who may well have the ear of Obama and his intimates, are calling for more pressure on Israel, supposedly for its own good, there is every reason to believe that any involvement by the president in the talks will be to Israel’s detriment.

Far from being a formula for peace, Obama’s involvement and his hectoring of Israel may set in motion a chain of events that, like the failure of Bill Clinton’s Camp David summit, may instigate a new campaign of Palestinian violence. Photos such as the one taken today may nurture the illusion that Obama is helping to nudge the Middle East on its way to peace. But the price for such heightened expectations, in the absence of any real change of heart about the need for mutual recognition of Israel on the part of the Arab and Muslim worlds, may be terrible indeed.


http://www.commentarymagazine.com/blogs/index.php/tobin/101502
user-pic

Commentary, a once respectable mag, now a notorious neo-con rag. Does it nonetheless have a meaningful point to make (in substitution perhaps, for the void in thinking ability of the poster here?

Not at all. All the glib rhetoric adds up to pure AIPAC crap: It's all the Arabs fault. Settlements today, settlements tomorrow, settlements forever.

user-pic
Obama’s obsession with trying to halt the building of Jewish housing not only in Jerusalem but also in the West Bank (parts of which were accepted by the Bush administration as permanently belonging to Israel in exchange for Israel’s withdrawal from Gaza) has not made the Palestinians more amenable to peace.
Well, if George Bush accepted that this land now belongs to Israel as a reward for ending their decades old illegal occupation of Gaza (which has only changed tactically) then it's settled, right?

The one thing that puts the lie to the secular Zionist talk of a "democratic" Jewish homeland without the colonial and genocidal ambitions of Greater or eretz Israel, it is the settlements; the sometimes officially, sometimes unofficially sanctioned continuing theft of Palestinian homes and land.

Then there is the problem of ongoing international crimes of occupation, periodic war crimes, a self-appointed PA President who doesn't represent the Palestinian people, Hamas, retreated into a militant stance but still in power, the legal right of return, etc., etc. etc.

What we have are leaders on both sides that cannot negotiate a real settlement of anything substantial. But hey, gang, let's put on a play in the barn! Call it "Onward Oslo, the Roadmap to Annapolis." And, when Obama says, "Let there be light," hit that baby blue spot...

user-pic
Israel-Palestine: Obama Wants "Final Status" Negotiations Now
When I read words "final" and Jews and the same sentence, somehow, I don't feel cheerful.
user-pic

Beautifully put: A honest reflection of reality, even if unintended.

I am paranoid, therefore the US Congress must eternally kiss the settler-nuts behinds.

user-pic
After that meeting, Netanyahu’s predecessor Ehud Olmert offered Abbas pretty much the deal that the “experts” on the Middle East always claim is the only solution: a two-state plan, with the Palestinians getting virtually all the West Bank as well as part of Jerusalem. But Abbas was no more able to say yes to this than Arafat was when Ehud Barak offered him almost as much in the summer of 2000.
http://www.commentarymagazine.com/blogs/index.php/tobin/101502
user-pic

If you see the word "Jews" in that sentence,

Israel-Palestine: Obama Wants "Final Status" Negotiations Now

you have a problem with reading comprehension. Perhaps a remedial course in English would cheer you up.

user-pic

All well and good.

More importantly, do you foresee either Netanyahu or Abbas being either willing or able to deliver on "final status" issues?

Also, MJ, you seem to have omitted Benn's final sentence after the part you quoted:

The President is satisfied with Netanyahu's (so far privately made) promises to limit construction, and places the resumption of peace talks at the top of his priority list.
user-pic

In Aluf Benn's words: Obama "read his statement as a command directed at the two sides," a command to get the final negotiations moving. The sooner the better.

Well, let's hope Obama has finally learned something from his failed first round. It does no good for a great power to lecture people on what they "must" do and issue ostensible "commands" if they are not prepared to back up their imperatives with some kind of forceful response in the case of failure to comply. If you don't walk the walk after talking the talk, you only make yourself look weaker and more laughable, and diminish the credibility and influence of your words.

The President has directed the parties to come to Washington, and has asked the Secretary of State to deliver a status report in mid-October. That's very soon. Now MJ, here's what I need to know from you: What practical penalties or sanctions are you and your organization prepared to back if the Secretary of State reports unsatisfactory progress by either the Palestinians or the Israelis?

I believe several of us asked you about this last time, when you seemed dazzled and overly impressed with Obama's big words and commanding tone on the settlements. And I don't recall that you were willing to endorse any specific sanctions. That seems similar to the Obama administration, which doesn't seem to have been prepared with any contingency plan in case the Israelis decided not to treat Obama's authoritative-sounding pronouncements on settlements as a third tablet of commandments, and decided just to say "no" instead.

user-pic

First of all, Palestinians are victims, therefore unsatisfactory progress by the Palestinians can't never cause any penalties or sanctions.
Second, MJ and his organization are prepared to back up all possible penalties and sanctions against Israel at any time.

user-pic

Oh Anna, grow up. I asked MJ in the post what practical sanctions he would support for unsatisfactory progress by either the Palestinians or the Israelis.

And since I wasn't addressing you, perhaps you would be so kind as to save the kibbitzing until MJ answers the question himself?

user-pic

let me pull an AnnaA on you:

First of all, Jews are victims, therefore unsatisfactory progress by the Israelis can't never cause any penalties or sanctions.

Second, AnnaA and his organization are prepared to back up all possible penalties and sanctions against Palestinians at any time.

is the shoe too tight?

user-pic

No, Jews are not victims anymore, but too many people on this blog are still not used to idea of Jews not being victims anymore.

user-pic

except when it is necessary to extract political gains and the holocaust card is brought out.

user-pic

I wouldn't expect an answer, Dan. MJ is long on bluster; short on actual policy prescriptions. Accepting the viewpoints expressed in his writings would logically lead to support of the BDS movement, at the very least, if not more severe sanctions, against the serial violator of human rights and obstructionist Israelis. You and I both know, though we come at this from different points, that MJ would never go this far. He's more interested in settling scores with his old buddies at AIPAC - a goal he is sufficiently invested in to make common cause with Israel-haters like Walt and Weiss. My impression is also that, unlike someone like Bernard Avishai, who, whether you agree with him or not, is on the ground trying to find ways to bring the sides closer together in the interest of peace, Rosenberg is a DC creature from whence he can lob verbal missiles at Israel a safe distance.

user-pic

Comon, he is just a clown, Glenn Beck without an audience.

user-pic

Well, Armchair Guerilla, I guess I think the book is still open on MJ. But my concern is that the new groups MJ has been involved with are just idle feel-good societies for liberal Jews. By joining these groups, people get to express relatively safe verbal opposition to Israeli government policies, but without ever committing to putting any tangible, coercive pressure in the way of that government. They get to indulge the feeling that their hands are cleaner, but aren't really willing to do what is necessary to bring about substantive change.

It would be nice for those who expect to see Obama lead the charge on this issue to show him that if he gets very serious, and then turns to look behind him when the really heavy incoming starts flying, the sunshine warriors will still have his back, and he won't be standing all alone. Obama can't change the Middle East with only the power of his smile and pure soul power.

When are we going to get some clear indication of the carrots and sticks that can be brought into play, and some clear commitments to use them?

user-pic

This is an incomplete assessment. In many ways, "liberal Jews" are helping to shame "mainstream" Jews and non-Jews into FINALLY starting to get the wide hypocritical behinds of lunatic settler Israelis and their dupes and tools off of the US Congress. I would agree that there is far too much time wasted with "we love Israel better than you because it is tough love" silliness, but this a tactical quibble. The strategy of liberating America's Mideast policy from the foreign fanatics who have hijacked it is clear and essential, and if "liberal Jews" don't lead the charge probably no one will, until the place blows up and becomes more like the Latter Day Warsaw Ghetto that the paranoid settler mentality already assumes and nihilistically furthers.

user-pic

So what if Obama says the time has come to move the peace process forward? His chatter make as much an impression on Netanyahu as the threats issued by the Labor Party rebels. Benny Begin and Yesha settlement leader Pinhas Wallerstein scare him more than that lefty Obama and his few friends in Israel. [ haaretz ]

obama is not feared. he was feared when he first made his pronouncement on settlement freeze. but now he is being perceived as weak. he has a bark but no teeth. he needs to change that perception if he wants to accomplish anything.

user-pic

Obama was never feared. Everyone with half a brain realized that he was a neophyte and would get eaten alive by any more experienced player...and that is exactly what happened. Bibi is a hell of a lot smarter and more experienced than Barack and his "brain trust"

user-pic

Nudnik has apoint about bibi's experience. I can't think of any other Israeli politician that has more extensive ties to Americans than he. It's Israelis who are suspicious that bibi is a big ol' p-word:

Yoram Ettinger, the former Minister for Congressional Affairs to Israel's Embassy in Washington, charged Tuesday that U.S. President Barack Obama is holding the Netanyahu-Abbas-Obama summit in order to continue “clipping the wings of the State of Israel.”

Ettinger says that it’s time to exert significant pressure to prevent Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu from giving in to more American demands. “The big pressure from outside must be answered by pressure from those who believe in the importance of the Jewish settlement enterprise in Judea and Samaria,” he explained.

Ettinger said that the U.S. Congress and the decline in public support for Obama are two elements that can be used to Israel's benefit.

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/133550

Nothing like another voice of experience urging the use of the weapons at hand.....

user-pic
'As for intention, the Israeli intention is clear; we don't need to listen to what Israel says, just watch what they've done and are doing. Israel wants the best land and resources, the water and the fertile plains; they want to rob the Palestinians of East Jerusalem, expelling them from their homes and neighbourhoods. Israel continues to expand the illegal settlements on the West Bank and build infrastructure connecting these outposts to the rest of Jerusalem. All the while they demolish Palestinian homes in East Jerusalem and carry out excavations undermining their foundations. They block Palestinian roads and cut them of from their land and villages. The Israelis are not offering Palestinians a viable state; they want to herd them into 3 separate, disconnected Bantustans.

We often hear the refrain, "Israel doesnt target civilians." In the context of a large-scale military assault on the densely populated city of Gaza, this is mendacious. Repeat that lie to 4 year-old Samer Abed Rabbo who in all likelihood will spend the rest of her life in a wheelchair, a quadriplegic, after her spine was smashed with an Israeli bullet. The same incident left her two sisters, Amal, 2, and Suad, 8, dead - shot and killed by Israeli soldiers. First the tanks shelled their house, and then, as their grandmother led them outside waving a white flag, they were spattered with Israeli machine gun fire. The Israeli soldiers had murdered Amal and Suad, while little Samer was left hanging to life by a thread. As she lay in the dirt barely breathing, the tanks rolled on to the next target, the Israeli soldiers displaying a callous disregard for Palestinian lives.

All killing of civilians is reprehensible. But the greatest obstacle to peace is Israel.'

Avi Shlaim, Oxford Professor of International Relations writing in the Guardian.

user-pic

The idea that anything will ever change without serious sanctions against Israel is preposterous. What possible motive would Israel have for changing a policy that allows it to continue to appropriate Palestinian land and marginalize its Arab population? Israel's goal is to maximize its land and minimize its Arabs. The long term plan is to settle most of the good Palestinian lands and then create some kind of unsustainable Bantustan on marginal land for the Arabs, with the hope that over time the impoverished, demoralized Palestinians will emigrate to Arab countries. This is clearly Israel's plan and it's working fabulously well. Why would Israel change a thing without some kind of pressure from the international community? The reality is blatantly obvious, but we have a bunch of babbling fools here who like to delude themselves into thinking that the "peace process" and "roadmap" are something more than a convenient cover for an Israeli government that wants to maintain what it sees as a highly desirable status quo but knows that projecting an image of wanting change is essential to keeping the international community at bay.

If MJ really wants change, he must work for sanctions against Israel. Anything short of that is just embarrassing childishness.

user-pic

in this issue, obama is the strange case of the president who wasn't. he announced to the whole world the demand that israel freeze settlements. the israeli spit in his face. hillary clinton was right. all obama got is a speech. and when the upcoming negotiations get into a snag, what will obama do? he will give a speech, of course.

by refusing to put any teeth to his demand, obama just told the israeli that it will be business as usual. there will be peace talks which plays right into the rope a dope israeli strategy of just waiting it out. these talks, like all previous ones, will act as a cover for the further stealing of land and water and segregation of the palestinians.

of course, it's not stealing if your fantasy god gave it to you. right? dogs use urine to mark territory but the israeli settlers use the bible to mark territory. the difference is that dogs are more honest.

obama, he's an ineffective and likable nice guy.

BDS is the only way to go.

Leave a comment

Advertisement
Please disable your adblocker!
Ads are how we pay the bills!

Subscribe

The Coffee House
TPMCafe's regulars

House Brew
From Your Cafe Editor

Special Guests
Big names and big brains

Special Features
Pressing topics and trends

Table for One
An expert's week-long talk.

All Reader Posts
TPM readers discuss.

Book Club Calendar

Coming Soon



Nov. 30-Dec. 4



January 12-16



« Book Club ArchiveFull calendar »

Recent Reader Posts

All Reader Posts »





Masthead

Editor-in-Chief
Josh Marshall



Subscribe to TPMCafe's feed.
Subscribe to TPMCafe's reader blog feed.

Advertise Liberally
Share
Close Social Web Email

"To" Email Address

Your Name

Your Email Address