Three Myths About Healthcare Reform
Since Congress began considering healthcare reform, conservatives and their industry allies -so-called opponents of healthcare reform- have embarked on a shameless misinformation campaign about the consequences and implications of expanding access to affordable coverage. Here, debunked, are three of the right wing's most widely circulated myths about reform.
Myth 1: Healthcare reform will limit patient choice and lead to socialized medicine. The Republican alternative to President Obama's health reform efforts-the Patients' Choice act-states, "The Federal government would run a health care system-or a public plan option-with the compassion of the IRS, the efficiency of the post office, and the incompetence of Katrina." The Cato Institute has published a brief asking "does Barack Obama Support Socialized Medicine" before suggesting that "reasonable people can disagree over whether obama's health plan would be good or bad. But to suggest that it is not a step toward socialized medicine is absurd." (Patients' Choice Act Summary, May 20, 2009; Cato Institute, October 7, 2008)
Reality: Progressive reforms will provide more choice, not less. Under progressive proposals, Americans will have the choice to keep the employer plan they currently have or buy an affordable plan from the national insurance exchange. Individuals and small businesses will be able to "compare private coverage options and a public plan and to purchase the policy that would work best for them." Moreover, to characterize Obama's healthcare as "socialized medicine" is itself "absurd." In contrast to Cato's rhetoric, socialized healthcare is "a system of health care delivery in which care is provided as a state-supported service." as Jeanne Lambrew, director of the Health and Human Services Office of Health Reform, points out, given Obama's reliance on private insurers and providers, accusations of socialism are "far from the truth." "nonetheless, accusations of socialized medicine will likely continue to be raised about any reform proposal that is not based entirely on letting private insurance companies rule our health care system," she argues. (Baucus Health Plan, November 12, 2008; Center for American Progress, May 14, 2008)
Myth 2: The government will ration care. In his memo on healthcare, GOP wordsmith Frank Luntz says, "nothing else turns people against the government takeover of healthcare [more] than the . . . expectation that it will result in delayed and potentially even denied treatment, procedures and/or medications." (The Language of Healthcare 2009, May 6, 2009)
Reality: Government research that compares the clinical outcomes of alternative therapies will not ration care. They will inform doctors and patients on the most effective medical treatments and procedures. research into the comparative effectiveness of treatments can identify the procedures that provide the best results at the lowest cost. Currently, at least one-third of medical procedures have questionable benefits, according to the rand Corporation. (Rand Corporation, 1998)
Myth 3: A new public health plan will only drive up healthcare costs and increase premiums for Americans with private insurance. Karen Ignagni, the CEO of America's Health Insurance Plans, recently argued that "a new public program similar to Medicare would exacerbate cost-shifting, which already adds $1,500, or 10 percent, to the average premium for a family of four." (New York Times, December 17, 2008)
Reality: A public plan will contain costs, lower premiums, and give Americans a choice of health plans-public and private. a recent analysis of the public option by the Institute for america's Future concluded that offering a new public insurance option to americans who lack coverage would control healthcare costs and improve quality by providing an important benchmark for private insurance within a reformed healthcare framework. Universal coverage will reduce cost shifting by getting everybody covered and contain costs through investment in prevention, management of chronic care, twenty-first-century information technology, and research on and adoption of effective treatments. (Institute for America's Future, December 17, 2008)





















Ah the CATO Institute, gotta love 'em. They probably think seatbelt laws are a step towards the government driving our cars for us by remote control.
August 25, 2009 8:26 PM | Reply | Permalink
I don't think anyone can argue against your critique of these myths without willful distortion. But it seems to me that the approach that the administration took allowed those myths to grow into abominable boogie men that were destined to derail an honest debate. The starting-from-the-middle, bipartisan, concilliatory compromise and deal-cutting with the health industry left a dark vacuum for myths to grow instead of accomplishing the naive mission of enlisting the health industry corporations to support reform.
The question about HC that no one in DC dares to ask is: Is basic health care an inherent right? If not, is it not still incumbent upon government to ensure it in the interest of security for its people? If we conclude that everyone is entitled to capable health care (and both sides of this debate begin with universal coverage) then we are saying that it is a right.
The administration had a choice in how to present reform. With the greatest economic collapse since the Great Depression, HC reform could have been introduced as part of the restructuring of government and society necessary to economic recovery and security in the future. A stimulus package was thrown together and passed using the real threat of economic meltdown from runaway financial markets. After that, attention was turned to convincing the American people that economic recovery was well underway, and with the $trillions meted out to the banks, the economy was or is or will soon be hunky-dory.
The Republicans screamed that intervention in the financial markets with a $trillion taxpayer bailout was socialism and their screams went unheard; didn't even slow things down. But if the administration had leveled with the country about the depth of the banking fraud and the insolvency of the "too big to fail" people would be much more inclined towards overhauling the entire economic system including health care. Instead, Obama has all but retreated from the idea of real reform in any arena and only mildly supports a (nonessential) public option that is like the Postal Service, "I mean, if you think about it, UPS and FedEx are doing just fine, right? No, they are. It's the post office that's always having problems."
FDR (1934): But, in addition to these immediate tasks of relief and of recovery we have properly, necessarily and with overwhelming approval determined to safeguard these tasks by rebuilding many of the structures of our economic life and reorganizing it in order to prevent a recurrence of collapse.
It is childish to speak of recovery first and reconstruction afterward. In the very nature of the processes of recovery we must avoid the destructive influences of the past. We have shown the world that democracy has within it the elements necessary to its own salvation.
Less hopeful countries where the ways of democracy are very new may revert to the autocracy of yesterday. The American people can be trusted to decide wisely upon the measures taken by the Government to eliminate the abuses of the past and to proceed in the direction of the greater good for the greater number.
Our task of reconstruction does not require the creation of new and strange values. It is rather the finding of the way once more to known, but to some degree forgotten, ideals and values. If the means and details are in some instances new, the objectives are as permanent as human nature.
Among our objectives I place the security of the men, women and children of the Nation first.
This security for the individual and for the family concerns itself primarily with three factors. People want decent homes to live in; they want to locate them where they can engage in productive work; and they want some safeguard against misfortunes which cannot be wholly eliminated in this man-made world of ours.
August 25, 2009 8:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
Nice comment Don.
August 25, 2009 9:22 PM | Reply | Permalink
With the greatest economic collapse since the Great Depression, HC reform could have been introduced as part of the restructuring of government and society necessary to economic recovery and security in the future.
My opinion has been that it's just plain tragic this wasn't done. I think the majority was ready for that, really, heck many were still waiting for a call to do something besides shop since 9/12/01, and most know the health system is screwed up and other countries are doing better on that front than we are. But once it was clear it was going to be a Congressional sausage, the contents not decided yet, and that it wasn't going to be a "now everyone pull together, some sacrifice for a while on the way to a big goal, and we can be number 1 in the world in health care," the general zeitgeist switched to "but what's in it for me?" And that's actually a smart attitude to take when it's Congressional sausage of as yet unknown content.
August 25, 2009 9:37 PM | Reply | Permalink
Then he promptly took twelve years to actually get all of those things done. The Looking Glass Left today would have been on FDR's case if he didn't have everything solved by August if 1932, not exactly the most realistic of expectations.
August 25, 2009 10:02 PM | Reply | Permalink
I don't think that bears out, Jason. The left has given Obama ample opportunity on issue after issue. That his actions and those he has appointed to carry out his "change" is questioned as we go along on issue after issue isn't unusual. FDR faced the same, as you know, but held to the big picture of remaking an America that worked for its time and after. Obama has not radically repudiated the Bush era abuses, systemic corruption and trickle-up economics to any great degree. Everyone understands that it takes time to get where you need to go (the farther from the starting point, the longer it takes), but if you start off in the opposite direction, it will take a very long time indeed.
August 25, 2009 10:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
But but but ... Mister Bluster knows all...
Although, ya' see the only "Looking Glass Left" is a figment of Bluster's imagination, and Limbaugh's talking points.
As I've pointed out before, Mister Bluster just seems to enjoy sitting in his highchair of judgmental self-satisfaction as he scorns those he sees as less than he . . .
He lives in a realm where "..."the tongue is a smoldering fire, and excess speech a deadly poison..." and "...the fire of the tongue devoureth both heart and soul."
The darkness of derision is Mister Bluster's best friend.
~OGD~
August 25, 2009 11:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yep. Jason Everett Miller delights in denigrating the left and elevating the right, almost as if he were paid to do so, blind to the role that dissent from the wings plays in shaping policy.
August 26, 2009 3:18 AM | Reply | Permalink
I have yet to elevate the right on anything. Provide a single link to a single quote. I enjoy popping the balloon of your massive egos.
August 26, 2009 6:56 AM | Reply | Permalink
Ouch!
August 26, 2009 9:05 AM | Reply | Permalink
Perhaps a bit harsh, but there is no other explanation for the continued caricature of my fairly simple points.
August 26, 2009 9:43 AM | Reply | Permalink
I'm not complaining, jason; I'm amused. I think you could have had an interesting dialogue with Don Key if it hadn't been interrupted. In any case, I don't think it's accurate that you elevate the right.
August 26, 2009 10:44 AM | Reply | Permalink
If I could, I would replace every single one of them with someone like this guy. I think Don and I might have an interesting chat despite the standard asides.
August 26, 2009 10:51 AM | Reply | Permalink
Your "fairly simple points" are so often laced with descriptors such as "the looking glass left", that it's easy to mistake your simplicity for that of your point. And you are correct, and I apologize for suggesting that you elevate the right. It's the center, or the new right, that is your schtick, as if the center can exist in a vacuum without the tail ends of the curve that ultimately define the center. Signing off.
August 26, 2009 2:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
The tail ends have been polluting the conversation for a generation and are the reasons "progressives" have failed to get much done in the same amount of time.
The "looking glass left" is the counterpart to the rapture right. Both camps are keeping us from moving forward because neither budges an inch. They just blame the other side. If my descriptors raise such angst, perhaps that is more a reflection on how you see yourself than how I see you.
I never assign labels directly to individuals, instead I am simply describing a phenomenon that I see in the political narrative of the country. Agree or disagree as you will, but don't try to make it into something it is not. I approach every discussion as a fresh opportunity to reach consensus on issues that have been getting worse for decades now.
I care about results, not labels, be it republican or democratic or progressive or liberal or conservative or centrist or whatever the fuck. Labels should only be taken to heart insofar as we recognize ourselves in those descriptions and would prefer we didn't.
August 26, 2009 3:47 PM | Reply | Permalink
Never happens????
Oh let me count the ways . . .
Yet in this very thread, as anyone can witness here, Mister Bluster lets it all hang out . . .
Someone may be a hypocrite, but I have a sinking feeling it's Mister Bluster just on the face of those two broadsides after his, "I never assign labels directly to individuals."
Gee ... I wonder why this fella fits the name Mister Bluster?
~OGD~
August 28, 2009 8:01 AM | Reply | Permalink
The label Looking Glass Left wasn't assigned to an individual it was assigned to a group of people on the left who seem incapable of objective and rational thought.
Those quotes you pulled out of context are a sign of frustration after an on-going series of confrontations with you and having had to be the brunt of your immature method of debate. You follow me from thread to thread, antagonizing and painting caricatures of my ideas and when I cry fowl [sic] you get righteously offended.
You prompt the very behavior you seek to condemn. It is the classic ideologue debate style. I doubt anyone here with half a brain is fooled by it, but troll on.
August 28, 2009 8:10 AM | Reply | Permalink
Not a damn thing was taken out of context . . .
Mister Bluster is a divisive individual and name caller.
So am I ... But at least I'll man up.
Hell, I call this guy "Mister Bluster" for his continuing actions of trying to bluster his way through with his bull-pucky every time someone calls him on his bull-pucky.
One needs only to read his last response.
Simple as that ... No science to it.
Bluster! Mister Bluster.
~OGD~
August 29, 2009 7:58 AM | Reply | Permalink
You have yet to comment to anything I write with a logical and reasonable counterpoint and/or question. You are an asshole from word one and then act all offended when I call you on it.
Yes, please go look at any of our interactions and make up your mind on your own. I am confident that anyone who doesn't share the duck's contempt for all things republican will find the actual truth quite easy to discern.
Has nothing to do with bluster. I will take responsibility for anything I say that is rude and unreasonable. Doesn't happen often, but I will man up when I do. You, on the other hand, are all insults, all the time. You "debate" with ad hominem attacks and hyperbole and by providing caricatures of everything I say.
You took those completely out of context as those quotes came at the end of a long line of comments chasing me from thread to thread. You are not only a hypocrite and a partisan, but you are hypocrite and a partisan with zero self-awareness and zero ability to modify your methods when they prove to be ineffective.
Now, seriously, quack off.
August 29, 2009 8:34 AM | Reply | Permalink
Notice . . .
The reply to this bluster by Mister Bluster has been moved here for better formatting purposes.
CU there . . .
~OGD~
August 30, 2009 10:04 AM | Reply | Permalink
Word.
August 30, 2009 10:45 AM | Reply | Permalink
Okie Dokie...
WORD x 2
~OGD~
September 1, 2009 7:41 AM | Reply | Permalink
Yes, because I am the one always casting aspersions and insults. Right? That is all you have to offer.
I am sure the TPM readers who can actually comprehend the words I am using have no problem following along. It is only the old and moldy warriors such as yourself that can't seem to understand that forty years of failure to achieve lasting progress in this country on a number of fronts indicates new tactics are needed.
Bluster indeed. I would point out the irony of your on-going trollish behavior, but there would be now point. You are unreachable and unteachable. Like every other far left liberal I have ever met. Bunch of hypocrites. Just like their counterparts on the Rapture Right.
By the way, if the Looking Glass Left is only in my imagination, why is it you get so offended by the term? Strikes a little too close to home, huh?
August 26, 2009 7:00 AM | Reply | Permalink
He has been in office for six months. The left hasn't given him ample opportunity to do anything. Again, FDR took twelve years to get all the New Deal legislation passed.
Health care reform was never going to be something that was accomplished with a single bill. The "left" has unrealistic expectations with regards to this issue as well as the American people's capacity to embrace sweeping changes in one swallow. That has never happened in our history.
Not sure why you can't respond to what I actually wrote, but it looks like the duck is happy to get your back with even more obnoxious obfuscation and caricature of my points.
August 26, 2009 6:55 AM | Reply | Permalink
I thought I was responding to your comment, Jason, but by explaining my take on time frames. Politicians of any stripe are continually judged for better or worse. Obama, like any other candidate, was being judged and measured from the beginning of the campaign. And Presidents are under a microscope from day one as everyone tries to suss out their ideas and plans. It is no minor matter to change rhetoric calling for a public plan as essential to reform, then implying it will be okay without it. It is no minor matter when health care reform becomes health insurance reform.
If we wait until proposals are a done deal to criticize them, we have no effect on the debate. And there is a different allowance for different issues. No one expected Obama to overturn Bush abuses and restore constitutional balances overnight, though he started on day one by signing an order to close Gitmo and end torture. Since then he has sustained and hardened the status quo regarding the WOT and executive powers. He has earned criticisms on all of these fronts, but if he does change course and start working towards reform that will last, he'll earn high praise from the left and rightly so.
I'm not saying that it doesn't take a long time to get radical change implemented. But just because this is Obama's HC reform, it doesn't mean that it began with him. Sen. Kennedy's death today reminds us of the long struggle that has been waged to provide fair HC for all (a 100 years war at this point). FDR took twelve years (time no president will ever have again) to achieve his many massive reforms, but he began working towards them almost immediately and fought off his critics all along the way. He is often quoted around here as telling a constituent, "Make me do it." Obama has said the same thing in so many words, and that is what progressives are trying to do.
August 26, 2009 1:04 PM | Reply | Permalink
Again, I have no problem with the goals nor the criticism. What I have a massive problem with is most democrats being happy with the initial bill at some point and moving on to bigger and better legislative battles.
To assume all is lost with the public plan because this first round of legislation turned it into coops simply keeps the battle raging rather than upping support for the reform effort in general. Had the far left been willing to concede quicker, this first bill would have been signed already with the Medicare reform debate as the proper place for the discussion. Make the "public option" as the only possible way to save Medicare.
My main critique is more around process, give and take, attack and retreat and detente. I feel as if the only ones approaching this debate from a pragmatic standpoint (including the president) are being ridiculed as obstructionists.
August 26, 2009 1:09 PM | Reply | Permalink
How about a bill that (with minor limitations) precludes denial for pre-existing conditions, makes insurance more portable, provides accountability for costs, reduces waste and fraud, standardizes data and information through connected and secure IT systems, reduces administrative costs and then sets up regional non-profit co-ops to compete with private insurers?
August 26, 2009 1:22 PM | Reply | Permalink
Right. That is what is emerging from conference committee and even lacking a purely government-run option, it will be a good first step.
August 26, 2009 1:28 PM | Reply | Permalink
You're stripping out subsidies and medicaid expansion and any mandate, there Don?
August 26, 2009 1:34 PM | Reply | Permalink
No, my point is that this reform is what we have right now. These are laws and regulations currently on our books. All of these reforms were already passed over a decade ago in the Kennedy-Kassebaum Act (HIPAA) except for the co-ops which were initially tried in 1947). There are some things that haven't been tried (or regulated as vigorously) in the Senate proposal, but are we going to be satisfied continuing to tinker at the edges of reform leaving the same structures for abuse in place to eventually negate any progress made?
August 26, 2009 1:50 PM | Reply | Permalink
okay, I'm not getting where you're coming from. But I think there should be a realistic conversation now that there's a 50%+ risk that the public option gets dropped: what is a package that takes things in the RIGHT direction, however small the baby steps? For me, the remaining elements without the PO just don't fit the bill. And I thought that was what you were getting into: what a modest but good package might look like.
But it seems I'm butting into a different conversation... sorry.
August 26, 2009 2:05 PM | Reply | Permalink
By the way, not a single thing in HIPPA calls for the same regulations as are currently being considered. For instance, HIPPA says nothing about discrimination based on preexisting conditions or rescission.
August 29, 2009 8:55 AM | Reply | Permalink
Actually, it does , Jason. I can't find it right now; it's Saturday, i'm sick and I haven't even had my coffee yet! Try here (See: No discrimination on account of health status related factors) or even Wiki.. It has restrictions- an insurer can choose to postpone coverage on a pre-existing condition for up to a year (usually less) but covers everything else.
Honestly, one can go back to Nixon's original plan (killed by Dems) and find about as progressive a plan as what's being considered here w/o PO! (And I don't deny the conclusion of some that Sen. Kennedy may have hurt progressive reforms as much as helped at key times).
But TR and FDR's SS panel and Truman and others tried to enact national health insurance- single-payer universal health care. The rest of the modern world has some working form of it. That should be our goal and every "reform" like this sets back the cause of doing anything more for decades and decades, MHO.
August 29, 2009 10:59 AM | Reply | Permalink
I just had a similar conversation on another thread.
While it appears we have tried to solve many of these problems before, we failed to properly implement and manage that change. That's why I am less concerned with the specific package that emerges as I am with does it gain wide-spread support by the majority of Americans.
I don't believe anything being considered is so radical that it can't be sold to the silent majority when it comes up for a final vote.
August 29, 2009 1:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
No, Obey, you're not butting in at all, and I agree with you. I probably didn't explain myself clearly. Jason was arguing that these small incremental reforms were substantial progress even if the PO is dropped. I asked him if a bill (with limited exclusions for pre-existing, portability, admin and fraud reforms, etc.) would be progress, but the bill I described was already enacted in 1996. Admittedly it was watered down but still had some teeth (at least on paper).
If these were genuine reforms, why are we having to once again renegotiate and reinforce them? Why has little changed in the system since the Kennedy-Kassebaum reforms took effect in 2000? Why have co-ops failed at bringing costs down through non-profit competition again and again over the last half century? The profit-hungry privatized system must be eliminated eventually.
The AMA first opposed national health insurance in 1920 (originally proposed by T.R.), then again along with other industry lobbies fought reform proposed by FDR, Harry Truman, Kennedy from the '60s-present, LBJ, Carter and Clinton. Incremental reforms will mean very little. These are the same bones the corporations have been throwing us for decades (minus the mandating of another 40-50 million to buy from the same bloodsucking insurance cos).
August 26, 2009 2:44 PM | Reply | Permalink
I SEE. Thanks! Yeah, I figured a lot of these regulatory measures were already on the books somewhere - federal or state. Just didn't have any hard evidence. As with other sectors, there's a huge difference between regs on books and regs getting enforced. Just look at the SEC, what a joke. So never really saw the point in adding a regulatory exclamation mark.
Beyond that, I'm more exorcized (exercized?) about the whole subsidized-private-insurance route that the reform takes without the PO. It's a catastrophe to have these subsidies without the PO restraining pricing power, and you can't have a mandate without them. So all that should, it seems, go. Which leaves what? Expansion of Medicaid...? It's 20 million more people insured, which isn't bad...
August 26, 2009 2:57 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yes, universal coverage is the objective, but not at the expense of reinforcing a system that is hurting working people as much as helping them. I don't know, but when the AMA, PHRMA, and even some of the bigger insurers support a HCR bill, I get very nervous.
August 26, 2009 3:03 PM | Reply | Permalink
That's kind of why my head blew off when the administration played down the PO's importance. Like it's optional and the rest can just go ahead anyway...
The whole spending package needs complete reworking if it goes imo.
August 26, 2009 3:11 PM | Reply | Permalink
Look, my point is that failed earlier reforms are immaterial when debating what is on the table right now. I think putting off the public option to address as part of Medicare reform makes more sense and could be disconnected from the initial legislation without affecting forward momentum.
We can't just declare that regulation doesn't work when any system we design that will be sustainable will have massive regulatory structures as its underlying foundation. That is how you achieve stability. I find it a hard argument to swallow that we should extend Medicare to everyone when it is already in trouble and apparently government isn't even up to the much smaller task of regulating an industry that already has existing obligations under the law.
I read a great quote from TR recently:
At some point, we can't keep pointing the the failures of previous generations as justification for our continuing failures at the same necessary tasks. Business must be brought under control. Capitalism has run amok. It is our generation's task to bring that monster to heel.Why not start with the health insurance industry?
August 26, 2009 3:58 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yeah, I like that quote and agree that capitalism has run amok. We must act. We disagree on how, or how fast, to get there. I think many previous reforms have been sidestepped with minor regulation concessions, which is why looking at the history of HCR is important. I imagine many people think that the attempted "government takeover" of HC in 1993, AKA HillaryCare, was the first real run at transforming the system. But even Truman's single-payer proposal was deemed "socialist," like every plan since, by the money interests trying to hold on to their immense profits from the taxation of human misery.
August 26, 2009 4:28 PM | Reply | Permalink
No argument. It will be a combination of vision and will to get from here to there. I think it will also take time enough for the silent majority in both parties to start cleaning up Washington bia the primaries. If we fail in that task, nothing will ever change.
August 26, 2009 4:39 PM | Reply | Permalink
Au contraire . . .
Mister Bluster's wheels have completely come off the cart or he's being quite selective with this lack of recall.
He whines, "...yet to comment to anything I write with a logical and reasonable counterpoint and/or question."????
To highlight the absurdity of his whine and point to that type of statement as total bluster I point the "good readers" to this exchange a short 30 days ago:
What was that he replied with? "Loved this comment"?
So the Duck has posted something in response to Mister Bluster that he seemed to approve of?
So, in turn I can only guess that the "...yet to comment to anything I write with a logical and reasonable counterpoint and/or question." is just one more line of bunk and bluster.
Yup! Just another bluster by Mister Bluster . . .
~OGD~
August 30, 2009 9:59 AM | Reply | Permalink
Note . . .
The above comment was in response to some bluster Mister Bluster had blusterd up thread here ...
Thanx . . .
~OGD~
August 30, 2009 10:08 AM | Reply | Permalink
A single comment after months of derisiveness and belittling behavior is supposed to be the proof that you are really just a nice guy who is misunderstood?
You keep calling me Mr. Bluster, yet you are the only one who could possibly be characterized that way based on the continued partisanship and general assholery you display in 99% of our interactions with me.
Bravo on having a single sensible comment to something I said, thirty days ago. Maybe you could build on that trend, but I someone doubt it.
August 30, 2009 10:36 AM | Reply | Permalink
Mister Bluster hasn't a clue . . .
He had accused me of this . . .
And yet, when faced with the truth, he comes back with the following line of bluster?
After responding to my original comment it goes to reason that it must have been "logical and reasonable" since this was his reply:
And no where did I claim to be "...just a nice guy who is misunderstood?" Although I am a nice guy to those who deserve it.
This type of blustery blusterness is actually a form of self-deception that allows him to think he's right.
Mister Bluster's right all right ... But just not in that way.
Ground control to Major Tom . . .
~OGD~
September 1, 2009 7:18 AM | Reply | Permalink
Mister Bluster hasn't a clue . . .
He had accused me of this . . .
And yet, when faced with the truth, he comes back with the following line of bluster?
When Mister Bluster respond to my original comment it goes to reason that it must have been "logical and reasonable" since this was his reply:
And no where did I claim to be "...just a nice guy who is misunderstood..." Although, I must admit that I'm rarely misunderstood by those who know me. And they are usually the folks who also know that I am a nice guy to those who deserve me being nice to them.
This type of blustery blusterness by Mister Bluster is actually a form of self-deception that allows him to think he's right.
Mister Bluster's right all right ... But just not in that way.
Ground control to Major Tom . . .
~OGD~
September 1, 2009 7:34 AM | Reply | Permalink
A single reference from months of being an absolute ass is not enough to refute what I said. What part of that is so hard to understand? You might want to calm down. The double posting is a bit frantic.
September 1, 2009 8:02 AM | Reply | Permalink
Ass??? As I’ve pointed out previously.
Mister Bluster exists in a realm where ... "...the tongue is a smoldering fire, and excess speech a deadly poison..." and where "...the fire of the tongue devoureth both heart and soul."
It's quite disconcerting to watch someone devour themselves like that.
But ... So be it . . .
~OGD~
September 1, 2009 11:56 PM | Reply | Permalink
More inane commentary from the duck. Big surprise.
September 2, 2009 6:47 AM | Reply | Permalink
Thank you Dr. Dean, and TPM for posting this. I can hardly believe what has become of this "discussion." You have summarized it so well. Now, if we can only survive the republican version of "Thriller" which has zombies pushing their BS, we just might achieve true Health Care Reform!
You are the only voice of reason, and I have no idea why you are not the Surgeon General (actually, I know why, but I think it is wrong, wrong, wrong!)
Keep up your good fight, and I admire you for staying out of the fray.
August 25, 2009 8:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
You are really barking up the wrong tree here.
First, socialism is the bugaboo of our parents' or grandparents' generation (and I ain't no spring chicken). It is pointless to address this issue, it only "motivates the base" of hardcore Republicans who wrote this program off last November.
Second, the "limits" and "rationing" issues are best dealt with by communicating actual concrete human stories about how the real death panels, aka, private insurance companies, have actually been rationed for years and how that has led to human tragedy including financial disaster and death. It is really silly to talk about someone else setting limits when the folks financing the anti-reform movement are, themselves, the imperious bureaucratic rationers.
Third, anyone who thinks the public option will drive up costs is so far out of it that no deliberative communication will return him or her to earth. Why address this portion of the nutter population? They aren't who you have to convince.
In fact, you don't have to convince the population. Poll after poll shows strong public support for health finance reform with a strong public program. Unlike top officials who are someone insulated, we have experienced the decline in access to health care due to the decline in quality of insurance over the past 3 decades.
We already know that continuing down the same path is intolerable. The reason is not, as top officials seem to think, that this path leads to national bankruptcy or even that it continues to leave 15% of the population uninsured and 10% underinsured. The reason is most of the remaining 75% are one step from underinsured and the health insurance industry seems insatiably determined to make sure they are underinsured in the near future.
Stop defending a good program from demonization by the devils themselves. Turn the lights on the health insurance companies and keep it there. Let's see the roaches scatter.
August 25, 2009 9:09 PM | Reply | Permalink
It's not whether they have insurance or not. The only question is whether they can pay the premiums. If they can pay the premiums, then they get a membership card so their healthcare providers will know who to call that will tell them that procedure is not covered.
August 26, 2009 2:07 AM | Reply | Permalink
The "public Option" will lead to publically run health care in the USA.
The costs will be so much less than private insurance that all thinking people will choose the public option.
This is the real problem facing the private health insurance companies.
.
August 25, 2009 9:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
Folks will choose the public option, as you say. But not for cost reasons. They will choose it because it will feel like real insurance.
August 25, 2009 10:26 PM | Reply | Permalink
What does real insurance feel like?
August 26, 2009 2:10 AM | Reply | Permalink
When Markets Don't Operate As They Should:
Well shouldn't competition take care of high prices and substandard products. We kept on being told that the forces in marketplace is the best way to go to keep costs down and services high. Of course this isn't true. They haven't kept costs down and try to limit services because it isn't a truly competitve market. If the marketplace won't provide adequate competition to keep prices down then government needs to step in to be that competition. Yeah the private insurance companies do have a problem looming, a big problem in fact...it appears there will finally be real competition in the marketplace courtesy of the American government.
August 26, 2009 12:04 AM | Reply | Permalink
Markets work when buyers have real choices. In the health care "market" though, the choice the truly ill have amounts to this:
"Your money or your life."
That choice is normally associated with things other than "free markets." And "Wait, let me think about it" is a response only a stand-up comic would give.
August 26, 2009 7:27 AM | Reply | Permalink
Precisely. Warning: you have inspired one of my favorite rants, which follows.
The definition of a free market transaction doesn't even apply: a willing buyer and a willing seller, neither being under any compulsion to buy and sell, and both having knowledge of all relevant facts... The "buyer," or patient, is waaaaay disadvantaged. As "Mom" said: "if you don't have your health, you don't have anything," you'll pay anything, you'll sell your mother's soul.
You also don't know all the relevant facts that the practitioner does, actually, that's precisely why you're there--which is why the practice of medicine is a profession and the profit motive has NO place in it's actual practice, only salary-type remuneration for the professional knowledge and services.
As one moves further away from the actual practice of medicine, into development of drugs or testing equipment or implants, or luxury choices like at home care or plastic surgery for beauty enhancemnet, then one can sensibly argue the opinion that the profit motive belongs. But that's business, not practicing a profession.
August 26, 2009 7:54 AM | Reply | Permalink
Isn't it a bit misleading to say that governmental rationing is a "myth?" The comparative-effectiveness analyses are definitely examples of rationing. I think the better argument, as Marquis stated, is the fact that private insurance companies (and the insured themselves, for that matter) have been rationing care under the current system. It makes more sense to leave these decisions to a governmental body that determines treatment plans based on established and standard practices.
As far as costs are concerned, I would think that universal coverage would reduce premiums but lead to increased taxes.
August 26, 2009 12:21 AM | Reply | Permalink
I think it's a myth that we're gonna save money through any system that allows for-profit insurers to cherry pick the healthy and wealthy and dumps the less wealthy and the sick on the government.
We need SINGLE PAYER; or, if not single payer, then NOT-FOR-PROFIT health insurance. Take the incentive away from denying people care!
August 26, 2009 12:24 AM | Reply | Permalink
My original thoughts on this as well tts. I wonder how a public option saddled with the sick cast-offs of the insurance companies, and the poor, (read: poorly nourished), can effectively lower overall healthcare costs regardless of negotiating power.
August 26, 2009 12:56 AM | Reply | Permalink
I see what you're saying, but there are plenty of healthy young people who can't afford insurance now either. The only way to get around the "only the sick" issue, is to mandate coverage, just as they do with cars. If a Public Option is actually affordable, then the young and healthy would get preventive care, and not become the very ones you're talking about.
August 26, 2009 1:14 PM | Reply | Permalink
Theme : 6 Main Lies Have Nothing To Do With This Promising Reform.
Of young adults ages 19 to 29, 13.2 million, or 29 percent, lacked coverage in 2007, and that implies the total of this promising reform will be cheaper than expected, I guess.
1. The contents of savings (below) in this reform 'have nothing to do with' limit to medical access, rationing, tax raise, and deficit etc.
Rather, without wiping out these wastes and roots of bankruptcy for middle class, all fronts are sure to face larger financial ruin than this recession, which leads to more limit to medical access, more rationing, more tax raise, and more deficit etc than today.
$1.042trillion (cost of reform) + $245bn (cost to reflect annual pay raise of docs) = $1.287bn (actual cost of reform).
$583bn (the revenue package) + $80bn (so-called doughnut hole) + $155bn (savings from hospitals) + $167bn (ending the unnecessary subsidies for insurers) + 129bn(mandate-related fine based on shared responsibility) + $277bn (ending medical fraud, a minimum of 3% , the combined Medicare and Medicaid cost of $923.5bn per year, as of July,) = $1.391trillion + the reduced cost of ER visits (Medicare covers some 40% of the total) + the tax code on the wealthiest more reduced than originally proposed = why not ? (except for a magic pill, an outcome-based payment reform & IT effects and so forth).
As lawmakers debate how to pay for an overhaul of the nation's health care system, a new report from The Commonwealth Fund claims that including both private and public insurance choices in a new insurance exchange would save the United States as much as $265 billion in administrative costs from 2010 to 2020.
"Health reform can help pay for itself, but both private and public insurance choices are critically important," said Commonwealth Fund President Karen Davis, who coauthored the new report. "A public insurance plan can help drive new efficiencies in the system that will produce large cost reductions. Without a public plan, much of those potential savings will be lost."
Unlike high fuel price and mortgage rate in recent years as the roots of great recession and bankruptcy of middle class, the severity in the high cost of health premiums has come to light lately. Similarly, in an attempt to hide these deficit-driven corruptions and wastes, the greed allies struggle to turn the savings via removing these wastes into limit to medical access, rationing, tax raise, and deficit etc.
In contrast, not to mention a wide range of consumer protection, options across state lines, this promising reform takes initiatives in more primary care docs and improved long-term care. Unnecessarily, hope should not be replaced with all forms of malign lies, fear, just like people don't have to fear quitting drug.
2. Greedy insurers with no competitors by consolidation have nothing to do with the law of price, demand & supply.
Under the free market theory and the premise that the public health is also one of commodity like a house, if the demand decreases on a large scale, accordingly the price tends to reflect it, as in the case of house price, and it never happens for the price to spiral up. One step forward, in case the price is spiraling up, to be sure, the remaining clients should withdraw the contract or choose the other options. In practice, runaway premiums with no competitors by consolidation drive the enrollees out, and 4C + 2R (canceling, capping, cherry-picking, cash for special lobby, rationing, rapid premium hike) guarantee multiple times as much profit. Sadly, no way-out other than the prohibitive ER is allowed in America. Therefore, the victims today and tomorrow deserve long overdue protection from non-profit Government.
3. The plans to stem inflation in the House have nothing to do with crowd-out.
With the heartbreaking tears in mind (In no other industrialized country do 20,000 people die each year because they can’t afford to see doctor. Nearly 11 Million Cancer Patients Without Health Insurance), private market also needs changes and should join together to complete this reform , as promised, otherwise, the runaway premium only has itself to blame while new firms are filling the void with competitive deals.
And It can be said that fair competition starts with a fair, sustainable market value.
However, the plan in the House is designed to keep people in an employer-based health insurance system, and the public option would be offered to those for whom employer-provided insurance is not available. And job-based coverage (indirect payment), some mandate code, ample capital, the reduced exorbitant ER costs, IT base to streamline the administrative processes and trim the costs might be favorable to the private market. Over time, supposedly, the public plan will concentrate more on basic, primary cares, and the private insurers will provide their clients with differentiated services. And focus should be on the uninsured, the underinsured.
-- Except For The Underinsured, The Uninsured Alone Outnumber The Entire Population In Canada --
In an attempt to avert innovation, moderation, and social responsibility, accusing essential affordability, citing take-over, will be a dirty play.
4. Profit-driven markets have nothing to do with affordable, sustainable public health.
When the public health is also one of commodity like a house, we come to a tragic and unthinkable conclusion : As to for-profit business, the more and longer ill patients get, the more profits they make, and it will debilitate the overall economy involving education for the future (Of young adults ages 19 to 29, 13.2 million, or 29 percent, lacked coverage in 2007).
Under the most wasteful structure on the planet like no coordinated preventive care program waiting until people get ill, about 50% of idle world's best practices, a pay for each and every service reimbursement and frequent readmissions, no e-medical record and deaths, crushing litigations and the more profits via the unnecessary, risk-carrying procedures, and the most inefficient paper billing systems imaginable, overpriced pharmaceuticals, bloated insurance companies, incredible medial fraud, exorbitant costs by the tragic ER visits etc, it might be no wonder with the comprehensive, systematic reform in the pipeline, just one attitude of patient-oriented value in 10 regions has attained 16% of savings in Medicare while their quality scores are well above average.
Aside from the already allocated $583 billion and the savings of this reform package, 16% of $923.5bn (the combined Medicare and Medicaid cost per year, as of July) is around $147.76bn per year and 1.4776trillion over the next decade, and this patient-oriented value alone could be enough to meet the goal.
Please be 'sure' to visit http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/13/opinion/13gawande.html?hp for credible evidences !
Today, another innovative, fundamental change in payment system, or patient's outcome based payment reform that is able to turn the profit-oriented malpractices and volume into the patient-oriented value and quality is waiting for a final decision.
5. Inflation-driven greedy allies backed by the insurers have nothing to do with deficit-neutral.
When some part of our body is ailing seriously, we are going to lose competitiveness, equally, when some part of a nation is ailing servery, it is going to loose competitiveness, too. In case somebody in the house gets ill, health will be put over house, in practice.
6. The analyses of CBO have nothing to do with common sense and practice.
Costs of Preventable Chronic Disease account for around 75% of the nation’s $2.4 trillion medical care costs. U.S. health care spending is also expected to double in the next 10 years. and they are largely preventable -- 80 percent of the risk factors are behavior-related.
Unlike the analyses of CBO, world-wide outstanding public programs put heavier emphasis on preventive program equally, and preventable swine flu pandemic is expected to cost about $2trillion dollars world-wide for the lack of prepared vaccines. (Genes included in the new swine flu have been circulating undetected in pigs for at least a decade, according to a team led by Rebecca Garten of the federal Centers for Disease Control and Prevention who have sequenced the genomes of more than 50 samples of the virus).
If CBO asks the profit-driven interests about why they have hindered the budget request for preventive program in Medicare and Medicaid, they will say, " just look at the health Catrina special lobbying has made, we are professional, and we are obstructing this reform right now, too " .
7. Conclusion : The public health is a fundamental human right.
As I said above, patient-oriented value alone could be enough to meet the goal, and another innovative, fundamental change in payment system, or patient's outcome based payment reform that is able to turn the profit-oriented malpractices and volume into the patient-oriented value and quality is waiting for a final decision.
If At least, some media pay attention to this flower of reform, people will feel empty as the past and current discussion has been time-consuming for sure.
Thank You !
August 26, 2009 1:44 AM | Reply | Permalink
Dr. Dean: I want to know why Dems allowed "myths" to take root and flourish like kudzu in the first place. Thanks.
August 26, 2009 10:48 AM | Reply | Permalink
I don't understand why the democratic party doesn't declare the compromise legislation emerging from finance a resounding success, pass it with bipartisan support and move on to Medicare reform as a way of addressing the public option that is needed.
Seems to me an easy sell for most Americans who like Medicare and want to see it stabilized. It only makes good fiscal sense to add paying customers who are young and healthy and uninsured to the rolls based on a percentage of income. I would be willing to still pay my nominal monthly deduction, even if I had private insurance, if it meant keeping the system stable and available as a last resort.
This reform effort was never going to be as simple as passing HR 676 with resounding support from the masses and delivering it to Obama's desk before the end of summer. Artificial deadlines and unrealistic expectations for this first round of legislation is where the conversation has really gone off the rails. The legislation taking shape is actually a pretty good compromise, I believe, that can be the first in a string of progressive successes that completely reform our medical system over the next few years.
Combine that with new food subsidy policies and we may actually start getting somewhere with containing health care costs in this country. If we continue to ignore our fat epidemic, no health insurance reform - with or without a public option - will be sufficient to keep our medical system from collapsing under the weight of all those chronic diseases.
August 26, 2009 11:18 AM | Reply | Permalink
This topic would have been more readable had there been a twit filter.
August 26, 2009 5:53 PM | Reply | Permalink