Botanist of the Trees of Crazy
Don't miss Rick Perlstein's WP Outlook piece, "In America, Crazy Is a Preexisting Condition / Birthers, Town Hall Hecklers and the Return of Right-Wing Rage." It's a fine supplement to Richard Hofstadter's The Paranoid Style in American Politics, published in 1964 and never, alas, out of date. If you've been wondering whether to blame free-floating wackjob lunacy, right-wing coordinators, or the cable and radio channels of lies and viciousness for the farce that the health care "debate" has become--the correct answer is all three.
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The only way liberals can explain what's going on is, predictably, to blame the stupid people (read - everyone but themselves). How helpful, then, to keep fanning the birther flames to channel their rage.
Todd Gitlin-Perlstein's fine columns are a great way to understand the liberal state of mind today.
The so-called election "mandate", the majorities in Congress, the old and dusty policy ideas, familiar propaganda slogans - and the public support for ObamaCare is still dropping like a stone.
So there we have it: hope to confidence to shock to rage.
All that might and still so impotent.
August 15, 2009 10:16 AM | Reply | Permalink
And then there are people like Lalo you will say these people are sane and go on to say...
They were crazy in past and still crazy today. They hate change/progress...any change/progress scares them...and it all represents an evil plot by someone to subjugate them. Social Security was passed and still in place and effective, the Civil Rights Act was passed and we have a president of color, and health care will be passed. Because logic and rational thought will prevail over the misinformation of paranoia and fear every time. The forces of change are constant...they can be slowed a bit but it'll/we'll never be stopped by people who want to see the 19th century preserved.
August 15, 2009 10:44 AM | Reply | Permalink
What you do is package your reform as "logic and rational thought" and proclaim any dissent as as "paranoia and fear". See Gitlin-Perstein's post above as a good example of best practice in that genre.
But the truth is this is a simple political propaganda trick that was invented way before Gitlin and even before Democrats were all white Southern slave-owners.
You pretend that government intrustion is the only option in the whole universe to fix health care in a country that was founded on a principle of actively limiting government power over the lives of citizens.
But despite your lies, it's not the only option.
And at this point, this reform could only pass if you bully enough people in Congress to self-immolate for the political benefit of your Party.
August 15, 2009 11:04 AM | Reply | Permalink
Hey, I have no problem with dissent. But dissent is dissent...unhinged, irrational rantings are unhinged, irrational rantings. Trying to intimidate through fear and threats is not dissent.
All the while time and progress both constantly march on.
August 15, 2009 11:09 AM | Reply | Permalink
Dissent is dissent, whether you like it's message or not.
That's what Nancy Pelosi thought in 2006, when Bush was called Hitler and she was trying to take advantage of that dissent all the way to the Dem majority in Congress. Obviously, she doesn't think so anymore in 2009.
The trouble with dissent is that it doesn't follow rules prescribed by those it is directed against. So, you either accept that or you call it a mob, in which case, see comments above.
August 15, 2009 11:20 AM | Reply | Permalink
Shouting "FIRE" in a crowded theater isn't speech. Just like intimidation, disruptions and threats of violence aren't dissent.
August 15, 2009 11:26 AM | Reply | Permalink
Is it a crime? Or you just don't like it?
August 15, 2009 11:31 AM | Reply | Permalink
Civil disobedience is a valid tool for trying to protest but inherent in civil disobedience is the act(s) of breaking the law. And not trying to shield yourself in the law. To speak in disagreement is dissent to act in an effort to disrupt, threaten, harass and intimidate isn't.
August 15, 2009 11:37 AM | Reply | Permalink
Civil disobedience is only one part of political dissent.
Democrats are actually very well versed in political dissent, including its violent forms, such as "disrupt, threaten, harass and intimidate".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_dissent
Scripted dissent of the kind you seem to prefer is nothing but a staged Obama townhall. Democrats never used that tactic themselves.
August 15, 2009 11:43 AM | Reply | Permalink
Sure, in the past the left has used civil disobedience as part of their strategy...and sometimes it is called for. We called it what it is though...breaking the law. The political right, on the other hand don't have the balls to call it what it is. They will always be part of the establishment. But that doesn't change the fact that the town hall disruptions aren't dissent they are acts of civil disobedience...and people should be arrested. Brandishing weapons, death threats, fights? Dissent? No...they're criminal acts.
August 15, 2009 11:49 AM | Reply | Permalink
What law has been broken? You're so firmly stuck in Gitlin-Perlstein's "evil opposition" mindset, you can't even see how your comment makes no sense.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protest
August 15, 2009 11:55 AM | Reply | Permalink
August 15, 2009 12:11 PM | Reply | Permalink
Lalo,
thanks to people like you, the Democrats will hold Congress for a generation. And thanks to people like you a new to the scene black guy beat your "maverick" and "death panels" candidates for the Presidency.
At your next meeting with the birthers, the tea baggers, the hecklers, the Limbaugh dittoheads, the Hannity groupies and the Glenn Beck sycophants
I want you all to congratulate yourselves for a job well done. Maybe you can hold the meeting at C Street.
August 15, 2009 12:44 PM | Reply | Permalink
But just for clarification...the left's idea of civil disobedience is usually limited to unlawful rallies, sitting around and singing songs while they disrupt (though not always the case but usually). The right seem more inclined for acts of violence when they are engaging in civil disobedience...like bringing guns to political rallies and assassinating doctors.
August 15, 2009 11:54 AM | Reply | Permalink
Libertine says:
".......
Oh yeah? Well, well, well what about Code Pink when they sit in the back rows of Congressional Hearings with their signs, heh? heh? what about them?
August 15, 2009 12:50 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hehehe...yeah those signs could be turned into dangerous weapons couldn't they John?
August 15, 2009 1:08 PM | Reply | Permalink
Lib,
yep, especially in the hands of an 88 year old woman.
August 15, 2009 1:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
Just tell us how you would reduce the 18% of GDP we're currently spending on health-care to, let's say, 12% of GDP like Canada, or France (government involved systems) is currently spending on health-care and we'll listen to you.
August 15, 2009 2:32 PM | Reply | Permalink
Todd, you may wish to consider that batshit Americana is the local version of a global, species-wide batshit behavioral repertoire.
I suppose the best way to put it is something like "America is not exempt from displaying that behavior; after all, it is composed of Homo Sapiens".
It is unfortunate that retrograde illiteracy in "developed" countries exists; and that it is difficult to deal with the modern age, when we've apparently already passed into the post-modern age.
Those difficulties and our inability to negotiate with them, never mind the changes leading to them, seem to make a bitter joke of labelling ourselves as wise men; which is a rough translation of homo sapiens.
August 15, 2009 10:38 AM | Reply | Permalink
It's not surprising they are making an impact since they have the field to themselves.
Has anyone heard a Democrat other than Howard or Bernie, oops, sorry Bernie isn't a Democrat, make a genuinely passionate and compelling case for universal healthcare?
Oh, no way. Instead we have the folks like Claire what's her name shouting that of course they aren't for single payer or anything remotely like universal healthcare. Too bad you go away clueless about what they have a passion FOR. Oh, I forgot again. It's insurance reform now. Universal healthcare was one of those leftie ideas back in the days of Truman before McCarthy got on the trail of all the lefties.
Now, we have centrist beancountingism (which doesn't even do a good job of counting beans) on one side and birther/deathers on the other.
No wonder Americans are at the beach or in the bathtub.
August 15, 2009 10:48 AM | Reply | Permalink
Of course Lalo35adm, the birthers, the deathers are mad, they are apoplectic, their Knight in Shining Armor, George W. Bush betrayed them and left their lives (and the country in general) destitute and in tatters. Meanwhile Dubya went on to a comfortable retirement.
They supported Bush to the hilt. He and rove promised 1000 years of Republican majority rule and he couldn't even produce 8 years. He left them like Gonzales, exploited, disgraced and with no future.
The thing that bothers the nutjob Bush Base most, Lalo35adm and her ilk, is that Bush and his incompetent cronies screwed up so badly that a Black man and Democrat was elected President.
August 15, 2009 11:22 AM | Reply | Permalink
Yes yes, I know it's difficult to get it into your pea-sized brain that some people are against this reform AND also voted against Bush twice. And yes, anyone who disagrees with "a Black man" is of course a total racist.
But I'm sure you will get lots of taxpayer-funded cognitive therapy under the public option, so not all hope is lost.
August 15, 2009 11:29 AM | Reply | Permalink
...which candidate supported health care reform that included the Lalo35adm plea for mandatory insurance coverage for everyone for the $8k a month, year long regimen, statistically increases survival in some cases, breast cancer drug which you posted on as being possibly denied gov't plans?
I know it wasn't Ron Paul.
August 15, 2009 12:34 PM | Reply | Permalink
The real problem isn't the dissent, it's the promotion of violence. When moveon did a few snarky ads the Dems reacted in horror. Oh, deary me, do not let anyone know that Democrats once housed people on the left. For shame! When wingnuts are shouting death threats and dropping real guns the Republicans encourage the mob.
But not to worry, Lalo, should anyone on the left show up with an impolite sign, Democrats will put them in cages like they did at the 2004 convention. The left knows better than to show up at any of these Democratic townhalls. We know where we're not wanted.
August 15, 2009 11:41 AM | Reply | Permalink
Would riots be considered violence? That's something Democrats know very well. I haven't heard of anti-HC bill riots yet, sadly. Have you?
August 15, 2009 11:46 AM | Reply | Permalink
I miss the good old days of spring riots. Well, they still have them around these parts but they are mainly riots without a cause, i.e., too much beer after a hockey game.
Political riots are pretty much a thing of the past since they started deploying Homeland Security space men from mars gear to truss up the local law officers like Darth Vaders.
I expect that is a tactical choice on the part of the astroturfers. Don't want to set the folks against local law enforcement. Hard to position themselves as good fascists fighting the leftie commies if they take on the police.
August 15, 2009 11:53 AM | Reply | Permalink
FROM RICK PERLSTEIN: "The tree of crazy is an ever-present aspect of America's flora."
FROM THE FILM "Chaplin" (1992) -
Douglas Fairbanks: "Charles, you're a foreigner; you're still an outsider. You've never understood this country."
Charlie Chaplin: "It's a good country underneath, Doug."
Douglas Fairbanks: "No, it's a good country on top. Underneath, that's what starts showing when we're scared."
SOURCE - http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0103939/quotes
August 15, 2009 2:40 PM | Reply | Permalink
"What law has been broken?..Brandishing weapons, death threats, fights....bringing guns to political rallies and assassinating doctors"
- You mean THESE death threats?
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,539445,00.html?test=latestnews
August 15, 2009 3:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
Those "Black men on Facebook pretending to be Obama hating white supremacists" are a real threat to the nation, Lalo35adm.
Lalo, at TPM Cafe we count on wingnuts like you to inform us on stories like that one, from Fox News.
Guys like him are certainly more of a danger than real Obama hating white supremacists.
I'm sure the other Bush Basers on TPM like CleverBullDog or MiddleClassBill would agree with you on that one.
I also don't blame you for saying now that you 'voted against Bush twice', who would tell the truth on that one?
August 15, 2009 4:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
Lalo,
if I ever saw anyone on the right, like you, who, after getting caught with their hand in the cookie jar, stand up and take their medicine like a man rather than offer the standard weasel excuse of; 'the Democrats do it too', I would faint.
August 15, 2009 4:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yes, "the standard weasel excuse" is something that only you have the right to, my bad.
As far as the point made above is concerned, I'm still waiting for clarification on "brandishing weapons", real prosecution of fairy-tale "death threats" and "assasinating doctors" in the townhall meetings.
August 15, 2009 4:34 PM | Reply | Permalink
Lalo,
I rest my case.
August 16, 2009 1:26 PM | Reply | Permalink
IS THAT YOUR DAD?
August 16, 2009 10:09 AM | Reply | Permalink
What not to miss is Perlstein's "Nixonland".
August 16, 2009 3:28 PM | Reply | Permalink