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Obama: East Jerusalem and West Bank Are One And The Same

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The Israeli media over the weekend was celebrating Prime Minister Netanyahu's cleverness. The conventional wisdom there was that it was a mistake for President Obama to call in the Israeli ambassador and tell him that we oppose building a new settlement in East Jerusalem. The Israelis felt that Obama had fallen into a trap and that -- because no one in Israel considers East Jerusalem occupied territory -- Obama would have to back down.

The Israeli media overlooks one thing. The President doesn't have to worry about the consensus of opinion in Israel. He has to worry about public opinion here and in this country, few think about East Jerusalem one way or another. Congress is hardly likely to rush to the barricades to defend the right of a Republican fundraiser from California, Irving Moskowitz, to build in a part of Jerusalem that is close to 100% Palestinian and for rthe sole purpose of provocation.

So today, rather than back down, the State Department re-stated even more clearly that East Jerusalem is the West Bank. And that Israel should freeze building there until its disposition is resolved in final status talks. Thanks, Bibi. None of us knew where the administration stood on East Jerusalem. Now we know. They consider it to be what it is: occupied. And therefore likely to be shared following negotiations.

I only wish Obama's opponents on health care were as inept as his opponents in Israel and among the status quo crowd here. If they were, we'd have the Canadian system by now.


22 Comments

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I support Obama's call for a settlement freeze - that would apply to E. Jerusalem as well as the West Bank - although I do believe the rollout has been somewhat ham-handed, i.e., denying the existence of previous agreements that apparently did, in fact, exist, rather than explaining why those agreements are no longer valid.

I disagree, however, that Obama "doesn't have to worry about the consensus of public opinion in Israel. Of course, he does. In the end, it is the Israeli public that will have to make the decision to stop building settlements, and the Israeli public that will be asked to judge any peace deal, should one ever be offered. Obama has thus far failed to bring his natural allies in Israel, the center-left and even the left, to join in his call for a freeze. He has not, as one would hope, helped isolate and possibly bring down the Netanyahu government. Instead, unlike past governments that have crumbled at the sign of deteriorating relations with Washington, Netanyahu's appears strengthened. In the meantime, Abbas can continue hiding behind the spat, refusing to negotiate until a freeze is implemented (never mind that he apparently had no good comeback for Olmert's proposal that would have dismantled most settlements, given the Palestinians the equivaelent of 100% of the West Bank with land exchanges, allowed the return of a nominal number of refugees and joint control over Jerusalem).

By taking the issue public, Obama seems to be trying to gain credibility with the Arab world by demonstrating that the US is willing to be tough with Israel. By failing to engage the Israeli public, however, he could wind up weakening those who are best positioned to help him achieve his goals.

I guess we'll see.

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denying the existence of previous agreements that apparently did, in fact, exist

Nope. Official US statements are quite clear on the Occupied Territories, we have never recognized Israeli sovereignty over any of the disputed territories. The Schrub made some vague statements of support to Sharon to back him in negotiations with the Palestinians, but he never reversed official US policy that Israel had no claim to the West Bank lands which includes E. Juresalem.

Armchair next states that Obama "doesn't have to worry about the consensus of public opinion in Israel. Of course, he does. In the end, it is the Israeli public that will have to make the decision to stop building settlements,

Wrong again. Obama represents American interests, not Israeli public opinion. It sounds like you equate the two. Maybe for an Israeli. But not for an American. We, here in America, are supporting our president to represent our interests and if the Israelis object, then well you guys should just object. If that means you will reject our support I guess then maybe we should just go our separate ways.

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Wrong again. Obama represents interests of American people. Some of the Obama most important supporters have interest in screwing up Israel, but many more of Obama supporters have interest in not screwing up Israel

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Anna A, take it easy on the after dinner wine. You are incoherrant.

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I think you miss the point of what I'm saying (perhaps deliberately).

First, it is true that official US policy has been for a settlement freeze. However, there has been some dispute as to whether there was an understanding that this did not apply to the existing settlement blocks close to the green line that under virtually every proposal under consideration would remain part of Israel. I wasn't there and I don't know whether such an understanding existed. (This piece suggests that it may have been a figment of the right-wing imagination. http://peacenowconversation.org/?p=219) My point is not that this should be US policy - in fact, as I said, I support the call for a total freeze. But by dismissing the Israeli position out of hand as a fiction, the Obama administration added to the perception among Israelis that they were being unfairly criticized for a policy that had already been cleared.

Second, obviously Obama represents America and nothing I said implies otherwise. And while you may believe America's interest would be served by cutting ties with Israel, the President does not share that view. Rather, the President has announced that he wants Israel to freeze all settlement activity, leading to negotiations with the Palestinians with the goal of a two-state solution. Obama's goals would be better served by convincing a majority of Israelis to support them. Conversely, failure to generate Israeli support for a settlement freeze reduces the chances of success.

But that's only if you really are committed to peace. If your real goal is to see Israel punished, then I suppose Israeli public opinion doesn't matter. Just keep building settlements.

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Armchair responds with.. well However, there has been some dispute as to whether there was an understanding that this did not apply to the existing settlement blocks close to the green line that under virtually every proposal under consideration would remain part of Israel. I wasn't there and I don't know whether such an understanding existed. (This piece suggests that it may have been a figment of the right-wing imagination. http://peacenowconversation.org/?p=219) My point is

blah, blah blah. Whatever Schrub and Abrams may have told Sharon, they did not reverse American policy with respect to the Occupied Territories. We do not recognize Israili sovereignty over those lands. You can make all the arguments you want but that fact does not change.

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syvanen,

blah, blah blah.

Better take it easy on the wake 'n' bake. You are babbling.

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Armchair - I understand where you are coming from in that it would be nice and helpful if Obama could use his rhetorical skills to co-op Israelis into believeing he is doing this in Israel's best interest. However, the real situation is analogous to trying to co-op Republicans into supporting his Health Care Initiatives. Ain't going to happen. The peace camp in Israel is a shriveled relic of it's past and has no political clout at all. Meretz is down to 3 seats.

Israel is too far down the road in believing their own propaganda. I think the majority believe in their own righteousness and view the conflict not thru the lens of justice and fairness but the real world politic of one sided concessions. For example, there is a bill rolling thru readings in the Knesset that would extend Israel's borders to the Jordan River until modified by agreement with the Palestinians. This puts EVERYTHING in the final agreement as an Israeli gift to the Palestinians.

I for one do not believe Olmert's offer was as he described. I heard too much talk of "leasing" to not believe that the fine print taketh away what was shown in a glance at a map. If the offer was as magnanamous as Olmert portrayed why did he not publish it. It would have been a public relations bonanza for Israel.

Decades have been spent cajoling both sides towards an agreement. Irrespective of who was at fault over these past failures, I believe that in the future the US will need to be EXTREMELY tough with both parties and truly swat people across the side of the head with 2x4's to get them to understand failure this time is not an option.

Everything I read about the Begin/Sadat/Carter negotiations indicate that until Carter threatened Begin with very serious repurcussions the negotiations would have fallen apart. Serious repurcussions need to be on the table again with both Israel and the Palestinians. I think Obama is a fair man and would not agree to anything that would screw either party.

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In 1999 Bibi was defeated by Ehud Barak with the help of Bill Clinton's political architect, James Carville.
Now Israeli people are united in opposition to Obama. The only way to stop new construction a few blocks from the Hebrew University in Jerusalem is to break the will of Israeli people with crippling sanctions and by blackmailing with new Holocaust by refusing sell military items essential for Israel's survival against Iran nuclear attacks. By following your crazy advice, Obama is risking that at least 40% of Jews will vote for a republican next time. It's to big gamble for him. There is so much downsize but very little upside for him in this fight.

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Remember Carter and Bush I. They tried to push Israel around, and neither got a second term. May Obama suffer the same fate.

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Obama has boxed himself in with this inane settlement freeze demand, and made negotiations and peace much harder to achieve. Bibi can not agree to a settlemet freeze because his coalition would fall apart, and because the majority in Israel don't support it. At the same time, Abbas and Erekat have publicly stated that they won't return to negotiations until there is a complete settlement freeze. Mitchell is trying to negotiate a compromise with Israel. If he does negotiate a compromise, Abbas can not accept it because Hamas will call him a traitor and he will lose the litle support he does have. If Mitchell does not get a compromise, then there are no negotiations. Obama, by trying to kiss the Arabs' ass has made negotiations virtually impossible. Quite a brilliant foreign policy move. This is the most incompetent foreign policy team the US has had since Carter.

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Anybody here working for this project?
http://www.kibush.co.il/show_file.asp?num=34520

"The Foreign Ministry is in the process of setting up a team of students and demobilized soldiers who will work around the clock writing pro-Israeli responses on Internet websites all over the world, and on services like Facebook, Twitter and Youtube."

"Our objective is to penetrate into the world in which these discussions are taking place, where reports and videos are published – the blogs, the social networks, the news websites of all sizes. We will introduce a pro-Israeli voice into those places. What is now going on in Iran is the proof of the need for such an operational branch,” adds Shturman."

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A view of Israel by an eminent Israeli, Noah Efron

‘No one holds a heroic view of Israel anymore, not abroad and not here. Today’s kibbutzim are not a source of national pride. In the past decade, dozens of them have “privatized,” dividing up what was common property (it took a Supreme Court ruling to stop kibbutzim from selling to developers valuable government-owned lands that had been lent to them for agriculture). Israel’s social gap is now considered among the greatest in the developed world. The most recent wave of immigrants, from the former Soviet Union, are largely disgruntled, and surveys suggest that a large percentage of them are not even Jews. Several of Israel’s large development projects have caused great harm to the local environment.

Israelis are unwelcome in African capitals. They are mostly unwelcome anywhere. And most important of all, Israel’s military excellence has been tested in a 20-year misadventure occupying southern Lebanon, and in laboriously maintaining the peace in the West Bank and the Gaza Strip. The disastrous last war in Lebanon, and the wrenching recent war in Gaza, won support by most Israelis, and censure by some, but together they have left little doubt that the country’s army is not heroic in the sense that it once was.

For all these reasons, to be a secular Israeli in 2009 is a demoralizing and demoralized affair. We are tired: tired of the Palestinians, tired of the bombs, tired of U.N. and EU condemnations, tired of having so much of our daily wages taxed to buy guns and missiles, tired of the army reserves, tired of being hated, tired of going to bed and waking up to reports of kids -- Jewish kids, Palestinian kids -- watching their parents die or dying in their parents’ arms. We are tired of our lives and tired of ourselves.’

Noah Efron is chair of the science, technology & society program at Bar-Ilan University and a member of Tel Aviv’s city council.

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Does Obama want no construction in East Jerusalem at all? Or is it only Jews that can't build?

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Just Jews. Different rules for Jews and Arabs is what the left wants. Arabs can build anywhere they want to, Jews only in the designated areas. (remind you of anything?)

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@ Arabs can build anywhere they want to ...

er ..West Jerusalem / Tel Aviv / Haifa / Herzalia / Raanana / Netanya / Hadera / Eilat / Ashqeleon / Ashdod / Ramat Gan .... ?

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er...Arabs live in all those places.

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ER ... but you know very well they cannot BUILD there, which I think is what you previously claimed. Didn't you? Hint: check the column above.

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They can if they get building permits, like everyone else.

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Lovely. "They can if they get building permits."
But of course, they can't, can they?
The reason? Might it have something to do with the fact they are Arabs, not Jews?
I believe it might.
Obama is absolutely right to draw the line at the projected housing complex in East Jerusalem, to be built on land from which Arab families are being evicted.
Netanyahu was reduced to the lame excuse: "But it's only 20 units." Sorta like protesting, "Why so upset, honey? I only f---ed her 20 times."

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MJ:

Saying that "the President doesn't have to worry about the consensus of opinion in Israel" is childish. Your readers all know that the president can do whatever he wants to, within the law; he doesn't even have to worry about public opinion in the US if he chooses not to.

However, if Obama wants to accomplish his goal of securing a lasting peace between Israel and the Palestinians, then he certainly does have to consider the views of Israelis, especially those held by all sectors of Israeli society, from right to left. If he ignores such views, he makes peace much less likely. (The same would be true of consensus views of the Palestinians.)

This is not the first time that I've seen in your posts a maximalist view of how to achieve results in the Middle East. This kind of maximalist approach unfortunately mirrors the extreme statements made by the radicals, on both sides, who are not interested in peace, and does not become you. I hope it's a rhetorical flourish, not what you actually believe.

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RE: "the right of a Republican fundraiser from California, Irving Moskowitz, to build in a part of Jerusalem that is close to 100% Palestinian and for rthe sole purpose of provocation."

A RELATED POST: "Netanyahu's Time Bomb", by Ira Glunts, 07/20/ 09

(EXCERPT)...During Benjamin Netanyahu's previous tenure as Prime Minister, two long-contemplated controversial construction projects in East Jerusalem were begun despite intense Palestinian and international protest. The first was the opening of an exit for a tunnel to the Muslim quarter near the Via Dolorosa which runs under the Haram-al-Sharif or the Temple Mount. The second was the construction of a Jewish settlement on Jabal Abu Ghneim or Har Homa on a hill overlooking the city which is located in Israeli-occupied territory...
(Ira Glunts first visited the Middle East in 1972, where he taught English and physical education in a small rural community in Israel. He was a volunteer in the Israeli Defense Forces in 1992...)

ENTIRE ARTICLE - http://www.counterpunch.org/glunts07202009.html

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