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How Israelis see the Wall vs. how the rest of the world sees the Wall
Check out this new commercial from the Israeli cellular provider Cellcom:
Noam Sheizaf translates the ending, "What do we all want? Some fun, that's all." He then adds "And what's more fun than not seeing the Palestinians around anymore, thanks to the 10 meters high wall?"
Here's how this encounter usually plays out in reality:
This video was taken Friday in the West Bank village Nil'in, where in the past year over 70 men and boys have been taken and imprisoned by the Israeli military for protesting the Wall.
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Sounds about right to me. Palestinian suicide bombers tend to ruin one's fun quite completely.
July 12, 2009 9:08 PM | Reply | Permalink
I know what you mean. Whenever most Palestinians see an IDF "soldier" they just know some innocent Palestinian child is about to be murdered.
.
July 13, 2009 12:03 PM | Reply | Permalink
And what's more fun than stealing someone's West Bank olive grove and then building a wall high enough that you don't have to see the owner protesting.
July 13, 2009 12:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
Adam, I think you (or Noam) got this very wrong this time. The message of the commercial is actually something like: "My God, we're all human: this wall is separating people from people, soccer loving youth from soccer loving youth, and will one day, hopefully, be taken down." In context, it is a kind of Tel-Aviv reply to the fanatics of Jerusalem. Yes, the wall itself is terrible, and occupation forces have done terrible things. But, for once, let's catch the meaning of something close to good faith. These young people will not always be in uniform. Bernie
July 13, 2009 2:34 PM | Reply | Permalink
Buzzkill
July 13, 2009 4:34 PM | Reply | Permalink
You wish.
July 13, 2009 7:40 PM | Reply | Permalink
My God, we're all human: this wall is separating people from people, soccer loving youth from soccer loving youth, and will one day, hopefully, be taken down.
good message! it can only come when people loosen their rigid attachments to race-ethnic identities and embrace their humanity.
July 13, 2009 5:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
First of all, since Horowitz's post is not entirely clear, the quote about not seeing Palestinians around anymore is the translator's own comment, not part of the ad.
One can legitimately assert the ad is in poor taste (using the very real and disturbing wall as a vehicle for amusement) and undoubtedly it is creepy. That said, Avishai's comment shows another possible interpretation. But of course, Horowitz's unstinting aim is the vilification of Israel and Israelis. Not surprising then to see the following comments in the mondoweiss version of the post:
Once again, I am dismayed that Josh Marshall gives these preening clowns a prominent place in the "Cafe," unless his sole aim is increasing traffic on the site - something that thankfully seems not to be the case given the paucity of recommendations and comments they received.
Anyone interested in an eloquent takedown of the Mondoweiss crew should give this a read. http://sadredearth.com/the-malice-of-mondoweiss/ Key quote:
July 13, 2009 3:29 PM | Reply | Permalink
I saw that video a while back of the young American Jews making fools of themselves in Israel and it immediately made me think of the people who have been unknowingly duped by Sacha Baron Cohen. Is that a defense of those people? No. But are they somehow representative of a larger group. Suddenly we expect drunken idiots to act like anything other than drunken idiots?
I just visited Mondoweiss and the headline item is an interview with Medea Benjamin. She is a repugnant self-promoter. She didn't even think we were justified in taking military action right after 9/11!!! (Afghanistan, not Iraq!)
Her and her ilk, who are so often featured on Mondoweiss. How are they any different from the Rush Limbaugh, Pat Buchanan, taliban wing of the republican party? Are our left extremists ok, but not they're rightwing ones? There should be no tolerance for extremists.
This is really the crux of the matter and the problem with Mondoweiss and many of the posters: "In conflict, a just settlement recognizes the legitimate desires of all parties, not the moral claim of only one."
As you've alluded to, we have a lot of moral absolutists posting here, who find perfection in the Palestinians and pure evil in Israel and its supporters. They'd rather legitimize violence and keep the resistance going instead of finding an imperfect solution. Let's not kid ourselves, perfect should not be the enemy of good enough, especially when it is one side, the Palestinians, that does most of the suffering.
And as I've pointed out before, even if we concede that the logic and morality of the Palestinians and their advocates is totally sound (which I don't concede), is it practical? Has it ever achieved anything and will it ever? Look around...I think it's time for a new strategy.
July 13, 2009 4:11 PM | Reply | Permalink
I know these videos are doubly painful for you: (1) they show Israel as it really is, not the mythological Outpost of Western Civilization so frequently advertized; and (2) the ability of Israel's supporters to filter the news is breaking down.
Whenever you can't impose your unctuous non-arguments on the rest of us, you always try to guilt-trip Josh Marshall into re-imposing the filter....
As evidence, see this money quote: "Once again, I am dismayed that Josh Marshall gives these preening clowns a prominent place in the "Cafe," unless his sole aim is increasing traffic on the site - something that thankfully seems not to be the case given the paucity of recommendations and comments they received."
I can almost see you picking up your ball and going home. And then telling Mommy how all the neighborhood kids just don't understand.
July 13, 2009 5:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
And you know this...how exactly?
And isn't the West nothing but a racist dungheap anyway in the fevered leftist imagination (as opposed to the rest of the world, which is all about love and brotherhood)? I would think that by your standard, Israel should definitely considered an outpost of Western Civilization.
July 13, 2009 6:14 PM | Reply | Permalink
Wow, Brad to defend Zion, you will bad-mouth America. America a "dungheap"?
When did you start hating your country so much? That is, if it is your country...
July 13, 2009 7:05 PM | Reply | Permalink
troll
July 14, 2009 11:20 AM | Reply | Permalink
It might seem that way, Mythbuster, when you're sitting in the sandbox all alone.
I'll let readers on both sides of the issue decide who is the petulant child here.
July 13, 2009 7:43 PM | Reply | Permalink
Thanks for sharing that link. That was indeed an elegant dissection of the clowns at Mondoweiss.
It never ceases to amaze me that people like MJ Rosenberg (and presumably Josh Marshall) - who claim to be the true supporters of Israel and want to to remain the Jewish homeland - nonetheless applaud when these charlatans spew their dishonest nonsense. It's as if they're so anxious to differentiate themselves from the average Israel supporter that they'll embrace anything that might appear to reinforce their arguments, even if it is dishonest anti-Israel propaganda.
July 13, 2009 6:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
Whenever I read the collected wit and criticisms of BradtheDad, Armchair Guerilla, and Ordinary, I have to remind myself: Even Sarah Palin's supporters call other people "idiots."
July 13, 2009 7:08 PM | Reply | Permalink
RE: Israeli cellular provider Cellcom
SEE: "Secret clause lets Shin Bet get data from cell phone firms", By Yuval Yoaz, 09/25/07
(EXCERPT) The licenses that Israel gives to cell phone companies contain a secret codicil requiring them to give the Shin Bet security service information about conversations and messages that its customers transmit on their cell phones, according to the Movement for Freedom of Information in Israel (FOIM).
However, the cellular companies - Pelephone, Cellcom, Partner and Mirs - as well as the Communications Ministry and the Prime Minister's Office, which oversees the Shin Bet, all declined to confirm the existence of such a directive. If this addendum does exist, it would potentially impair the privacy rights of millions of cell phone customers in Israel without their knowledge.
FOIM says that the security appendix "permits the security services to access citizens' communications data, including in real time, without judicial oversight or other supervision and without the citizens' knowledge."
ENTIRE ARTICLE - http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/906489.html
July 13, 2009 5:14 PM | Reply | Permalink
I AM HEREBY URGING THAT JOSH MARSHALL et al IGNORE AG & FRIENDS WHINING, REPETITOUS, BORING, HYPOCRITICAL and CHILDISH CALLS FOR CENSORSHIP.
BTW, AG...you want to play the "Just LOOK at what some commenter somewhere said? (OH! the HORROR of it all)........backatcha from the Israeli journalist who brought this ad to the fore:
Ironically, immediately after I offered jewlicious.com as an example of some American liberal Jews’ tendency to adopt and defend right-wing politics and extremely unliberal ideas when it comes to Israel, there was a post on the site describing the commercial as “cute”.
http://www.promisedlandblog.com/?p=1231
Noam Sheizaf has lots more to say about this ad and he takes on some of the so-called "liberal" Israeli and American Jews on his Promisedland blog.
(Perhaps Noam needs to updated to the fact that some of the American versions of the above often prefer to call themselves "progressives" prior to embarking on some fingerwagging)
Here's Noam's rebuttal to the "cute" guy and those who insist that the ad is really a message of whatever banal and pleasant interpretation suits them:
Your reading of the commercial is legitimate, though as I wrote in my previous post, I see things differently, and at least this time, I’m not alone. In short, the absence of the Palestinians is the main problem here (though not the only). It’s not just “a mistake”, since showing them would have demonstrated how fake the whole situation is, and ruin the basic idea in the commercial (as done nicely in the response video I posted above).
BTW...Max Blumenthal has another video up on the demons' lair site that answers the complaints that he picked on drunk Americans kiddies. He calls it:
"Feeling the Hate in Tel Aviv".
http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/
See? isn't that nice that Max is trying to be fair n' balanced?
July 13, 2009 7:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
Geez, Lally. I don't think I've aroused so much ire since I mistakenly referred to you by the male pronoun. Whining, repetitious, boring, hypocritical and childish??? Are you sure you covered all the bases there? Didn't you forget to mention jejeune?
There is a world of difference between censorship and editorial judgment. Weiss, Horowitz, Blumenthal et al are of course free to carry on as they wish. That doesn't mean they are entitled to the endorsement of having their puerile screeds cross-posted here. It is one thing to promote a cross section of opinion. Indeed, I am often enriched by the viewpoints of others such as yourself with whom I may disagree. However, it is quite another thing to provide a forum for rank propaganda, which is my assessment of the Mondoweiss troika. Their goal is not to promote better understanding between peoples or even to shine some light on areas that are underreported. Rather, their objective appears to be to de-legitimize the state of Israel by presenting it as a brutal, oppressive and evil force, without even the slightest effort to provide any context at all under which the conflict has unfolded. The picture they present is not only unfair, it is highly inaccurate. More important, by presenting the conflict through such a distorted lens, they impede, rather than promote, the cause of peace.
July 13, 2009 10:47 PM | Reply | Permalink
AG.
Did you "forget" that I found your gender confusion issue to be amusing?
Although I do like the term, jejune, I had already covered that territory in moi petit hissyfit. You may substitute it if you like and/or pick another perjorative that isn't redolent of redundancy....how about "pompous"?
So sorry to inform you that Josh has no reason to consider your entitled sense of "editorial judgement" and that he will be sure to let you know when you're hired to provide it; eh newbie?
Calls for censorship are what they are.
Ta ta for now.........
July 14, 2009 1:18 AM | Reply | Permalink
Touche.
I'll descend from my pompous and entitled throne to put it bluntly. Mondoweiss and Co. suck. If Glenn Beck were invited to post on the Cafe it wouldn't be censorship to question the wisdom of allowing him a prominent place in this forum. Why is this any different?
July 14, 2009 10:28 AM | Reply | Permalink
Glen Beck? Why not?
That could be fun.
Nice try.
BTW, you owe the TPM deciders a thankyou note for declining to invite Richard Silverstein to become a regular here...he tried unsuccessfully to convince them to "hire" him to no avail.
Too bad. We could have been treated to his exchanges with the Crown Princeling of Hasbara For Dummies, Frank Luntz.
;~{)
July 14, 2009 2:28 PM | Reply | Permalink