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Perhaps The Most Heartbreaking Video About America 2009 PLUS UPDATE
This just makes me ill (almost literally).
I am posting this video because those of us who cannot imagine such things need to know they still exist. The faces of those kids....
GOOD NEWS: Sen. Arlen Specter (D-PA) has stepped up to confront the club and the ugly racism demonstrated by its actions. Go, Arlen!
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Let's integrate the pools and nuke the Iranians, so that the world may be a better place for humanitarians like you.
Bless your sensitive heart.
July 8, 2009 2:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
Got a bone to pick with MJ? Why not let us in on what the hell you are frothing about?
July 8, 2009 3:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
You don't think swimming pools should be integrated?
July 8, 2009 3:01 PM | Reply | Permalink
I don't think Iran and the global economy should be destroyed, that's all.
Of course pools should be integrated, and this story is disturbing, but it comes on the heals of an even more disturbing couple of posts from M.J., one of which he deleted when it turned out to be very unpopular.
M.J. is doing damage control. Next up, crying puppies that need a home, or his first shred of evidence that Iran's mullahs are genocidal against Israelis and Iranians?
July 8, 2009 3:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yeah you look like a real winner yourself.
July 8, 2009 7:05 PM | Reply | Permalink
I. uh... okay. I'll shut up. Stupid jerks.
No, come on, this ISN'T a video about America. It's a video about rich people. Or odd people. But I don't know ANYONE who thinks this way.
July 8, 2009 2:44 PM | Reply | Permalink
I can remember not too many years ago walking across a steet one night in Seattle with a friend of mine who was black. As we passed the car waiting for the light, we could hear the automatic door locks click down. I laughed and said that has never happened before (I'm pretty darn scrawny and he was even more so). He responded, "it happens to me all the time."
Even though you might not know anyone who thinks this way, it is still part of the American culture. And as such it needs to be shown in the light, not dismissed as something a few oddballs think.
Heck, there was a cross burning in my town last year. Even if it was just a couple of teenagers playing a sick joke, as some tried to excuse it, it demonstrates the need to address a serious issue that permeates through too many segments of our society.
July 8, 2009 4:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
Point taken.
July 8, 2009 5:09 PM | Reply | Permalink
I know a number of people who think like this, but if you want some written evidence, check out the comments on this story, especially the earliest comments. They are quite, um, evidentiary.
Probably should do this soon before the comments are disabled.
July 8, 2009 4:55 PM | Reply | Permalink
Sheesh. Yeah. Damn it.
July 8, 2009 5:10 PM | Reply | Permalink
Thanks Destor.
July 9, 2009 1:09 AM | Reply | Permalink
http://www.reddit.com/r/WTF/comments/8zcp9/the_valley_swim_club_does_not_allow_minority/
July 8, 2009 9:57 PM | Reply | Permalink
Been to Philly much?
July 9, 2009 12:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
No doubt this was a private swim club that opened up their membership because of the recession, just as many country clubs are opening their golf courses on a limited basis to the public to make it through the recession.
This video should remind those who belong to exclusive country clubs that this is in fact what you are endorsing by continuing to belong to these clubs. This video lays bare the paucity of any rationalization about why one needs to belong to such a club.
The reactions of those beautiful children broke my heart. Thank you for showing us this modern horror, Mr. Rosenberg. Let's hope it gets wide exposure.
July 8, 2009 3:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
Black people have gotten a rotten deal all their lives, and surprisingly, they do not hate us the way some of us hate them.
I just don't understand. I will never understand it.
July 8, 2009 7:08 PM | Reply | Permalink
But...but...but... El Rushbo, Hannity and O'Reilly insist that this is a 'color-blind' society!
July 8, 2009 3:13 PM | Reply | Permalink
Baby Ruth time.
July 8, 2009 3:36 PM | Reply | Permalink
Well, it certainly puts paid to the bullshit that with an African-American in the White House we have entered into a "post-racial society". What pisses me off is that they all look like really nice, clean cut kids. How could anyone mistake them for gang bangers? So we are not talking about social class or behavior, we are just talking about color. I really feel sorry that anyone could hurt these kid's feelings like that.
July 8, 2009 3:41 PM | Reply | Permalink
MJ is really stepping on my entitlement. St. Ronald Reagan told us White Men that America is not a racist society.
Facts are inconvenient things.
July 8, 2009 3:46 PM | Reply | Permalink
And then people wonder why kids like that give up in school because they think there's no point in getting education since no one will hire them.
It's more than just hurt feelings, which is bad enough. I'm sure this incident for many of them solidified whatever perspective they might have about how a lot of racist whites feel about non-whites.
July 8, 2009 3:59 PM | Reply | Permalink
Some of our dearest allies would actually allow good kids like these to be stoned by vicious little girls:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T6zjnsaKXHg
July 8, 2009 3:55 PM | Reply | Permalink
IF THIS POST WAS MEANT TO SHOW US YOU ARE JERK, IT WORKED
July 8, 2009 4:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
Also.
July 8, 2009 4:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
I just watched that video of the Israeli school children stoning the Palestinian school children while the soldiers watch. In my mind, Israel really has become like "Lord of the Flies." It is disgusting.
As bad as what happened at that pool in Philadelphia was, the bottom line is that, in the U.S., what happened was illegal, it will cause widespread outrage and there will be consequences.
Israel, on the other hand, is so far out of the mainstream that, once the general public becomes truly aware of the exact nature of their society and their settlement enterprise, there will be no forgiveness--none. That day is coming, and their attempts to delay that day of reckoning is misguided in the extreme. It is absolutely laughable that Israel still thinks it is being clever in getting away with this kind of behavior in this day and age.
July 8, 2009 4:39 PM | Reply | Permalink
MJ has hit on this theme. And I am very appreciative of him for putting up post about America and the ME that are accurate and not cleared through our media filter.
It's actually a patriotic thing to do. We can't fix a problem until we acknowledge it exists.
July 8, 2009 5:19 PM | Reply | Permalink
The media report and video are disturbing. Respondents reveal something about themselves in the way they react. I concur with those who believe the most effective means of rectifying these offenses is to publicize them - but particularly in ways that engender empathy for the children rather than hatred for the bigots.
Hatred begets hatred, and empathy begets empathy. I would encourage those who comment here, whether on the topic of the posting, or in an attempt to divert the thread for some other purpose, to ask themselves which emotions dominate their own thinking.
July 8, 2009 5:19 PM | Reply | Permalink
Racism is alive and well throughout the world. It should not be tolerated. The initial post reflects a stain on our society.
My post reflects the belief that a several comments were posted by someone with a personal grudge.
July 8, 2009 6:09 PM | Reply | Permalink
I agree with your assesssment, but I think a good thing to do under those circumstances is remind people what the original post was about - in this case, bigotry in Philadelphia. Bigotry in general involves negative stereotyping that impugns an entire group because of faults, real or imagined, that the bigot perceives in some members. When people are judged as individuals, there will always be some who deserve criticism, but that type of generalized stigmatization is avoided. Certainly, there was no reason to see those kids who were denied access to the swimming pool as deserving anything but our sympathy and support.
July 8, 2009 7:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
I must admit hatred does rear its ugly head when I have to deal with republicans and republican trolls.
I do not feel that way about people of other races and ethnicities. I like the differences actually. I guess I must hate America, according to people like Joe Not a Plumber.
July 8, 2009 7:31 PM | Reply | Permalink
I must admit hatred does rear its ugly head when I have to deal with republicans and republican trolls.
We could do without comments like that.
July 8, 2009 7:39 PM | Reply | Permalink
Maybe so. But it isn't useful for a society to hide from itself.
July 8, 2009 8:54 PM | Reply | Permalink
I know the area. Used to live for a time just south of there. Snotty, racist and full of it don't even come close.
C
July 8, 2009 8:01 PM | Reply | Permalink
Well ---
If I'd paid good money for a place for my kids to swim during the summer and the president of my club made some deal to turn over the pool to 60 kids none of whom my kids know, I'd want those strangers out of there, too.
Race and skin color would have nothing to do with it.
July 8, 2009 9:02 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yeah, right.
July 8, 2009 9:44 PM | Reply | Permalink
At which point you would say "Hey, what are all these kids in orange shirts doing in the pool?" (Not "Hey, what are all these black kids doing in the pool?")
Then you would go to the manager and say "What's going on with all these new kids?" And the manager would say something like "Well, those are kids from Our Lady of the Everlasting Caucasian School," and you'd say something like "Hmm, really? Well, is there going to be a Mom's group so we can all get to know one another?" Not "Well, I want them out of here now."
Or are you saying you'd fall back on economic differences, the last resort of the prejudiced? "I paid good money so my kids could swim with other kids with money, and now there's no chance."
Ellen, it's great that you're working the objectivity factor here, but I think this one is well beneath your talents. You might have a "huh?" moment, but you'd rally.
(I don't really see you as a private club kinda sort, anyway. Not that I'm making generalizations.)
July 9, 2009 1:26 AM | Reply | Permalink
Good thoughts, here, Erica.
July 9, 2009 10:30 AM | Reply | Permalink
The situation is far more complex than the shallow post and the reactions above demonstrate. Ellen accidentally bumped into what really is going on.
It isn't that these kids did not know the regular club members--although that might be part of it.
The dynamic going on is far more complex.
The black kids and the white kids cannot relate to each other. That is a fact. There are complex reasons for this. For one, the black kids exist in a separate culture than the white kids do. They have seen the lack of enthusiasm they receive from white society every day in hundreds of different ways. The white kids on the other hand have seen the hostility these black kids express towards them in everyday encounters in whatever little social interaction there is.
THAT IS A FACT THAT CANNOT BE SWEPT UNDER THE CARPET BY YOU BLEEDING HEART LIBERALS WHO THINK THAT IT IS ALL JUST ONE BIG MISUNDERSTANDING.
There is a gulf that divides black kids from white kids. The gulf is real and has many roots. White kids grow up in a certain environment (for the most part): call it the environment of White Middle Class. Black kids grow up in environments that are far different (again for the most part).
To expect that putting these two groups together in a pool environment will turn out well is to be disingenuous to say the least. You guys and MJ knows this or should know this so shame on you.
Does MJ have kids that he sends into the Ghetto supermarket to shop in?
You guys have got to get real and see reality for what it is. Nothing will change if you keep on insisting that this is some kind of "mistake" that the white people are making in distancing themselves from free and spontaneous racial integration.
I would rate this one a 0 for MJ in the old rating system. It borders on the willful and blind hate/guilt mongering that we can all do without.
July 9, 2009 1:31 AM | Reply | Permalink
Funny. It seems to work out ok at the YWCA pool near my house.
July 9, 2009 2:06 AM | Reply | Permalink
That's a rather facile answer to a problem you just don't want to face. And not wanting to face it you will heap condemnation on the white middle class people and feel that you have accomplished something. You have accomplished zilch other than assuage your white guilt feelings.
Sure it works out OK at my YMCA pool too. But we are dealing with kids. Think of Lord of the Flies, think of kid mentality. I don't think the problem is with the black Middle Class that is pretty much integrated into the Middle class.
It is more a class distinction with all its socio/economic ramifications than a race issue. That's my point.
July 9, 2009 2:43 AM | Reply | Permalink
Also in the Y, there is a natural pre-existing mix.
The situation described by MJ--the preexisting condition--was all white kids confronted by all black kids that they did not know (Ellen’s point which has some merit not least of which is that it shows some fidelity to the actual conditions in American society today). By that age both camps have imbibed enough racial animosity to be suspicious of each other.
But on a more fundamental level the enculturation that the white kids have experienced is very different than the enculturation that the black kids have experienced.
To tell me that it works at your local Y is really silly. Are you saying there is no cultural divide between the races? Are you serious?
July 9, 2009 2:53 AM | Reply | Permalink
Sure there's a cultural divide. I'm saying it's a divide which should not be accepted as permanent, "natural," or insurmountable.
July 9, 2009 1:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
"Sure it works out OK at my YMCA pool too."
Then what ARE you talking about, Andrew?
If, as you suggest, the issue is socio-economic...what if they had "bussed" in a bunch of poor white kids from Appalachia?
Then, it wouldn't have been SO obvious that these were foreign kids. They might have been just "new members."
July 9, 2009 10:36 AM | Reply | Permalink
My guess is that the Appalachian kids would have been rejected too. The silliest thing is the notion that these kids were rejected SIMPLY because their skin pigmentation is different.
It is the Great American Myth of the origins of Racism.
July 9, 2009 3:29 PM | Reply | Permalink
For the record, yes my kids have always existed in a fully integrated society. In fact, one of my kids is a pretty major figure in the world of hip hop. (If you know NY hip hop, you know him).
So, no, some of us bring up kids who are as comfortable (at least) with African-Americans than with whites.
July 9, 2009 7:41 AM | Reply | Permalink
MJ, can you find out more information about John Duesler, pres of the club? There is a John Duesler who's an Obama supporter/peace activist. Which, if it's the same guy, makes this story curiouser and curiouser.
Anybody on the ground in Philly know specifics about the club and the pres?
July 9, 2009 2:41 PM | Reply | Permalink
Apologies for my tendency to be irascible in my comment.
Sure it works in the Y and it works with MJ's kids in NYC hip hop culture. These are cultural environments which are of some privilege and as I said, the people who interact in these sub cultural environments come from the same milieu.
The situation that MJ is presenting is a spontaneous encounter between two culturally different milieus that had little if no interaction before. Both groups are predisposed to be suspicious of each other. The outcome is to be expected: rejection.
If you want to advance integration it will have to be in a more thoughtful way than throwing groups of people--who come from totally different cultural environments--together and expect a happy result. THAT'S NOT THE WAY THE WORLD WORKS
So I don't see MJ's example as a case of crass racism but as a clumsy attempt to achieve something we should all be aspiring to, seeing it fail, and then blaming it all on white racist kids who simply just don't get it. Both groups were the victims.
But the cause of these events--which are more prevalent than you would think--is an incredibly naive misunderstanding as to what it takes to REALLY INTEGRATE the races. That's my point.
July 9, 2009 3:12 PM | Reply | Permalink
Andrew...aren't you the one in favor of a binational state? I can't remember...
July 9, 2009 10:32 AM | Reply | Permalink
Not in favor of any biracial state. I'm in favor of intelligent integration and AGAINST your stupid little sniping games about a situation that is far more complex than you make it out to be.
July 9, 2009 7:32 PM | Reply | Permalink
Your eye avatar reminds me of Pamela Geller's eye avatar. She's a sweet, delightful woman!
July 10, 2009 1:14 AM | Reply | Permalink
all's swill that ends, well, better (see sidebar to original story).
July 9, 2009 1:09 AM | Reply | Permalink
Now the big question is what the club owners will do about the situation.
Will they respond by insisting that this was all a big mixup and welcome the children back to the pool, thus avoiding being sued into oblivion?
Will they stutter and stonewall, trying to avoid losing their fancypants members?
Or will they look for middle ground, saying that having 60 kids mostly unaccompanied by a parent in the pool turned out to be a bad idea? (The school has a 15/1 student/teacher ratio and it looked like there weren't many parents there.)
It officially sucks to be them.
There's always the outside chance that it really was quite a shock for the 10 boring rich people in the pool when 60 kids came roaring in, and that somehow the thing can get worked out. But it's an outside, outside chance.
July 9, 2009 1:47 AM | Reply | Permalink
Generally, the members own a private club, no?
If this decision was taken for XYZ reasons--including making up budget deficits--then its steering committee, management, or whoever made the decision should have prepared the members for this and not just had 60 strangers show up.
I guess I agree with Ellen to this extent: If you're paying for membership in a private club--leaving aside the issue of whether private clubs are a good idea--then you have some expectation that everyone else there has paid too.
Pools and facilities have limited space. If your pool is suddenly inundated with 60 kids of whatever color, and they aren't members, then you're naturally upset IF YOU DON'T KNOW what's going on before hand and why.
This seems to me to be the crux of the issue...whatever racism might be there aside. Racism just inflames the issue, or gets provoked, when people are blindsided by decisions like this.
July 9, 2009 10:42 AM | Reply | Permalink
Yeah! Clearly if the membership had known there were going to be 60 black kids in their pool they could have had it drained after they left so the white kids to resume swimming without changing their complexion.
Nothing could have been better then for these white kids with their hardcast stereotypes to stay in the pool and experience black kids playing in the pool. It would have been an amazing learning experience for some of them. Of course, some of them would never change their attituddes, but some would and that's prgress.
What is amazing is that in the 21st century there still are people who hold these sterepotypes after all the evidence had been gathered to show it as so much bullshit. Yes, there are gangbangers, but not all blacks are gang bangers. Yes, there are white supremecists, but not all whites are Pro-Klan.
The folks at this club are racists. I don't hate them. I pity them. How miserable it must be to live in a tiny world where you can only use the white pools and are unable to interact with a significant portion of the population for fear it might change your complexion. It's pathetic really. I think of them as handicapped by their own preconceptions. OF course this is before we, as a community demanded access for the handicapped, because even a guy in a wheelchair can enter more buildings then these simpletons ever will.
July 9, 2009 12:59 PM | Reply | Permalink
Wow.
A smart firm of attorneys could make a gooooood buck on this. A really good buck.
We paid for our ticket.
And we were denied access.
Compensatory Damages
Costs
Attorney Fees
Punitive Damages
Oh but you say this is a private club.
Ha. Attorneys could figure this one out.
Bobby Jones is dead.
July 9, 2009 3:04 AM | Reply | Permalink
Picketing the place might help. Here in Washington, the only amusement park in town was shut down permanently over a pool situation.
Shut the place down.
Does anyone know where in Philly this place is. If it is in Northeast, I'm not too surprised. I used to live in Philly and thought Northeast was about the most racist place I'd ever experienced. But I'm not even sure if its still the same kind of place. Then it was Frank Rizzo country.
July 9, 2009 7:45 AM | Reply | Permalink
Except for you M.J., everyone on this board knows "where in Philly this place is."
They also know the size and shape of the pool, what the grounds look like, and with the exception of you and erica, that the membership isn't "rich."
July 9, 2009 10:58 AM | Reply | Permalink
Ellen, I recall your race problem from way back. Get over it. We have a black President.
July 9, 2009 1:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
I don't have a problem with race.
I have a problem with a wannabe pundit who is so anxious to put his opinions before the audience that he can't take the time to gather the facts.
The thigh rubbing might be forgiven were his opinions anything more than conventional drivel.
July 9, 2009 7:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
ELLEN: Your eye avatar reminds me of Pamela Geller's eye avatar. She's such a sweet, delightful woman! Like you, she doesn't have a problem with race (at least not her own).
July 10, 2009 1:20 AM | Reply | Permalink
And yet you always reply to me. Happy to be the vehicle you need to get your snark disseminated.
July 10, 2009 7:30 AM | Reply | Permalink
Careful MJ, bandying around unsubstantiated charges of racism is no better than bandying around charges of anti Semitism which you rail against (to your credit) all the time.
I think some of us think that your piece is simply not nuanced enough and runs roughshod over complex issues that befall race relations in America. It is easy to say “those white kids are just a bunch of white racists” and feel you have vindicated yourself in the eyes of those of us who seek meaningful advancements towards an integrated peaceful America.
July 9, 2009 9:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
The more you read the article, the more incomprehensible it becomes. Why did the club make the decision in the first place? If they are racist and concerned about the complexion in the pool, didn't they know these kids were black? Why invite them and take their money only to kick them out from the get-go?
This was a management/member fuck-up from the get-go. I'm not downplaying MJ's point about racism: Clearly it's there big time. But all the hurt could have been avoided and, in fact, a GOOD result could have been achieved if only a bit of thought had been put into it.
July 9, 2009 10:48 AM | Reply | Permalink
I just posted some links to further info about the club president which seem to point to some sort of management confusion/mishandling of the situation. Should be up in the sidebar soon.
July 9, 2009 1:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
As some have suggested above, multiple factors enter into the kind of sorry circumstance that transpired at the pool. What appalls me, however, is the implication that any of these can in any way excuse or even mitigate the reprehensible nature of the racism responsible for denying those children the opportunity to swim there that the camp had paid for.
Without racism, all the other accidentals would have been dealt with in a way that might have led to mutual understanding. Racism destroys any opportunity for that. It is equivalent to saying, "There's a problem in this living room - mice", without mentioning the elephant.
I commend the respondents above who testify to their own personal experiences demonstrating that good will can permit black and white kids, and adults, to mix congenially, both in public and sometimes socially. Fortunately, the people who can't understand that are at an age closer to dying than the generation for whom that's second nature.
July 9, 2009 11:11 AM | Reply | Permalink
GOOD NEWS: Sen. Arlen Specter (D-PA) has stepped up to confront the club and the ugly racism demonstrated by its actions. Go, Arlen!
oh GOODY!
one or two philbilly mothers, a keystone cop for club president with velveeta tongue, no or insufficient forethought to safety considerations when similar programs were initially "invited" ... presto!
"it's all about race."
not quite exculpatory but hardly knights in white satin.
"Most of the parents I spoke to, their issue was more of a safety issue than anything else, and not a racial issue,” says Jim Flynn, a Club Member. But it did become all about race, when some of the new visitors allegedly overheard a white mother complaining. "And I heard this lady, she was like, what are all these black kids doing here? She was like, I'm scared they might do something to my child,” said Bymir Baylor. "She said she don't want any black kids there, and there's too many of them." And what did you think when you heard that? "It was just ignorant,” said Shuron Davis, an 11 year old. [1]
Amy Goldman said she's been a member of the Valley Club for two years. She said the pool wasn't particularly crowded and the children from Creative Steps daycare were "well behaved and respectful." She said there had been black members at the club in the past, though she couldn't remember seeing any this year. [2]
Jim Flynn insists though, the members here are not racist. "No issue,” said Flynn. “It was strictly an overcrowding situation. "Strictly an overcrowding and a safety situation because I believe there were two lifeguards on, and that's just not enough." [3]
Jim Flynn went right to the club president after the kids took the plunge into the pool. "I was the first person to talk to the president, because the pool was overcrowded," said Flynn. "As members we have nothing to hide. There's good people here." [4]
[Club President John Duesler] said allowing day cares at the pool was an "experiment" that didn't work out. He said other programs were disinvited, as well. [5]
Daniel Veres, a 16-year old Hispanic teen who is also a member [of the swim club], says the entire siutation is just a misunderstanding. "We're not judgemental, we're just friendly," Veres said of the mostly white club. [6]
The Valley Swim Club does not discriminate, said Fred Helbig, one of the club’s directors, today. Helbig, 71, who is retired and lives in Huntington Valley, has been a member of the club since 1982. He said he was at the pool on June 29 and did not hear any members make racial comments about the children from Creative Steps Inc. day camp. He did not know why the camp’s membership was rescinded. “We have people who are black, people who are Asian, and Russians and Jewish people,” he said. “We don’t discriminate.” [7]
[1] (Fox 29) Member Contradicts Club Statement
[2] Ibid.
[3] Ibid.
[4] Ibid.
[5] (NBC 10) Club Members: "Nothing to Do With Race"
[6] Ibid.
[7] (Inquirer blog) Club director: 'We don't discriminate'
July 9, 2009 11:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
oh goody! cont.
arlen all growed up
July 9, 2009 11:37 PM | Reply | Permalink
Race may not have been the only issue in the pool controversy, but it overwhelms all others. I suppose it's reassuring that these days, few racist actions are justified on that basis, but are instead attributed to other motives. I have seen little since the story began, however, to controvert the conclusion that racial prejudice underlay the outcome. The explanation attributed to club president John Duesler, that the presence of the 60 black kids would change the "complexion...and the atmosphere" of the pool is telling.
Perhaps he was misquoted, since I think his comment may been verbal rather than written. In that case, he may be guilty less of racism than cowardice in trying to justify what the pool did. What he needs to do now, but should have done immediately, is apologize to the black children, invite them back as soon as they can make it, waive the fee charged, and then make clear that discrimination of this type would never again be tolerated.
July 10, 2009 12:53 PM | Reply | Permalink