Now, the Crackdown
Ayatollah Ali Khamenei's speech gives a virtual green light to the thuggish -- and massive -- Basij militia. It also raises the "moral" and Iranian constitutional ante on future demonstrations. From now on, demonstrators aren't legitimately petitioning for redress of grievances. They're civil disobedients - and, to a dishearteningly hate-filled part of Iranian society, they're something worse.
In civil-disobedience, you break a law non-violently and accept the legal punshiment to show that it's the unjust law that has betrayed the constitution, not your breaking that bad law publicly in order to defend the very rule of law. That strategy is risky enough here, but in Iran, it's inconceivable. Even just demonstrating peacefully will now demand more moral and physical courage than it did yesterday, or than civil disobedience usually does here. It will be cast as disobedience to the constitution itself - to the "Supreme Leader."
Watch the first 20 seconds of his speech and see his listeners' quintessentially fascist salutes, and you know what's coming. But consider that the U.S. hasn't always been better, and that some Americans still aren't.
Here in America, in what even Clarence Thomas called "the totalitarian regime of segregation," peaceful civil-rights marchers were met with fire hoses, police dogs, and murder -- but also with a new birth of open journalism and a federal government that began to back up them up.
Many Republicans still don't get this. At their 2008 convention, the "Yoo Es Ay! Yoo Es Ay!" chanters responded to their leaders almost as the Ayatollah's listeners have. Such people are everywhere, even next to you at work. You have to work on them, bit by bit, as has been happening in Iran.
Republicans and neocons who saw nothing wrong in their party's 2008 speeches and crowds are now piously praising the Tehran demonstrators, as Josh Marshall and Jon Stewart have been showing. But, in their hearts, pious neocon supporters of the street marchers want the regime to crush them, because that would justify another war. They've forgotten that the last one, in Iraq, boosted the Iranian mullahs' power. Even the neocon rhetoric is doing that again right now; the regime in Iran is capitalizing on it.
The regime is odious and should be overthrown. Even many Ahmadenijad voters now see this, as a former student of mine reported from Tehran and as Roger Cohen more recently confirmed. But an American or Israeli military reaction would reverse those changing perceptions and boost the regime.
Liberation must come somehow from the incredibly brave, disciplined, civilized people we've been watching, as it came in India, South Africa, and Eastern Europe. They need both more and less than bellicose American rhetoric and war-mongering, as I argued two days ago and as John Kerry insisted a day later.
So why do the war mongers keep falling into the trap of thinking that the time for intervention is at hand?
A hint comes from the semi-recovering neocon David Brooks, who is skirting that trap this time: "The core lesson of these events is that the Iranian regime is fragile at the core. Like all autocratic regimes, it has become rigid, paranoid, insular, insecure, impulsive, clumsy and illegitimate. The people running the regime know it, which is why the Revolutionary Guard is seeking to consolidate power into a small, rigid, insulated circle. The Iranians on the streets know it. The world knows it.....
"The nations of the West will have to come up with multi-track policies that not only confront Iran on specific issues, but also try to undermine the regime itself. This approach is like Ronald Reagan's policy toward the Soviet Union, and it is no simple thing. It doesn't mean you don't talk to the regime; Reagan talked to the Soviets. But it does mean you pursue many roads at once.
"There is no formula for undermining a decrepit regime. And there are no circumstances in which the United States has been able to peacefully play a leading role in another nation's revolution. But there are many tools this nation has used to support indigenous democrats: independent media, technical advice, economic and cultural sanctions, presidential visits for key dissidents, the unapologetic embrace of democratic values, the unapologetic condemnation of the regime's barbarities."
Brooks also knows, but stops short of saying, what most Americans and the world know, too: Republicans and neocons just don't get this. They hated Reagan's negotiations with Gorbachev, and George W. Bush, for whom Brooks campaigned ardently, refused to talk to Iran. As early as 2006 Brooks could have rewritten one of his paragraphs above to read:
"The core lesson of these events is that the Republican majority is fragile at the core. Like all autocratic regimes, it has become rigid, paranoid, insular, insecure, impulsive, clumsy and illegitimate. The people running the regime know it, which is why the Dick Cheney, Karl Rove, and Alberto Gonzales are seeking to consolidate power into a small, rigid, insulated circle. Americans on the streets know it. The world knows it....."
The world now is rightly, breathlessly focused not on Republicans but on Iran, as it was on Eastern Europe twenty years ago. Now, as then, our war-mongers are trying to insinuate themselves into the action.
The better strategies are the ones that Brooks mentions but that the party of his youth and early middle-age hasn't learned any better than has the audience cheering the Ayatollah. The next 24 hours may tell whether the rest of Iran can stand up to them and the terrifying division in the country which their saluting represents. Meanwhile, let's face down their American counterparts and find other ways to support the brave democrats of Iran.




















This is a great piece. Thanks.
June 19, 2009 11:00 AM | Reply | Permalink
You should read this too.
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/KF20Ak03.html
June 19, 2009 3:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
Ever watch Brooks body language when he's on TV punditing?
He looks like an amalgam of a teenager and a car salesman - the head thrust forward indicating intense sincerity combined with the uncertain smile and the darting eyes ("Am I getting away with this? Are they buying it?")
June 19, 2009 11:24 AM | Reply | Permalink
Yep. He'd also duck his head, ashamed about the money he was taking to make the neocons talking points. I quite listening to the News Hour in part because of his mendacity.
June 19, 2009 12:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
The speech was astonishing. There couldn't be vote-rigging -- why? Vote rigging is against the law and the riggers would have been forced to break Iranian law to rig votes. Who'd do a thing like that?! Surely not the President's supporters; he's the President of the country for heaven's sake?
Something out of pre-Watergate USA.
June 19, 2009 11:44 AM | Reply | Permalink
Is this the beginning or end of the Iranian Revolution?
http://www.youpolls.com/details.asp?pid=5564
.
June 19, 2009 12:28 PM | Reply | Permalink
Alfred E. thinks this is a great piece. That's a sure fire guarantee that its just the opposite.
Supposedly its a piece about the Iranian revolution. But its actually about how bad America is, how awful and hateful the Republicans are. What a surprise!
And who are the good guys? Why liberal peaceniks, of course.
You think the regime should be overthrown? Well, then go over there and do it. Surely, you'll be welcomed with open arms. Hell, win or lose, it's certainly the right thing to do. People like me, who regard you as perfect cannon fodder, would be cheering in the streets.
June 19, 2009 12:41 PM | Reply | Permalink
"Once again I remind you idiots, the country is divided." --Seth Edenbaum
"The next 24 hours may tell whether the rest of Iran can stand up to them and the terrifying division in the country which their saluting represents." -- Jim Sleeper
The only remaining question, here, it seems to me, is which side Edenbaum is really on. I fear that my post has answered that already.
June 19, 2009 1:29 PM | Reply | Permalink
Nice writeup Jim.
June 19, 2009 1:57 PM | Reply | Permalink
Sorry,this will probably have to be my last comment until this post is no longer on screen; I have to be away from e-mail for a few days.
My post of two days ago reported the untold story of the elections, which was that much of Ahmadenijad's substantial electoral support (whether majority or no)was eroding because many of the people who voted for him hadn't thought through what they were doing and were appalled at the results. Yesterday, from Iran, Roger Cohen confirmed this in a very strong column.
Dan K wants to remain agnostic about what we've seen over the past few days by remaining agnostic about the actual vote count. This strikes me as a dodge. And Seth Edenbaum will not answer my question about which side he's on; I don't see what the LA Times column he linked does to clarify that. The best post on this was MJ Rosenberg's a couple of posts down from here, noting that neo-cons want to have it both ways: They were ho-hum about an Amadenijad victory, since they like having him as a foil; then, they sided with the insurgent crowds, because that makes the incumbent look even worse. Whose side are they really on? That of the people they think they can liberate by bombing them? Whose side is Seth Edenbaum on in this? He won't say.
June 19, 2009 3:12 PM | Reply | Permalink
I really don't think it is fair to call my position a dodge, Jim. While I have seen an abundance of evidence in the past few days for the claim that there were various kinds of voting frauds, cheats or irregularities in Iran, I have seen no compelling evidence that Mousavi was expected to be the winner of a legitimate election - none whatsoever. In fact, almost all the reporting I encountered up to the day of the election indicated that Mousavi was a long shot.
I know that doesn't matter to a lot of people. But it matters to me. I think we should support the principle that the will of the Iranian people is the dispositive fact in determining what is and is not the legitimate government of Iran.
I don't think the United States government should be supporting a revolutionary cancellation of election results, even if that revolution is lead by America-friendly "liberals". What I do think we can support is our opposition to the subversion of an election by cheating and fraud. I'm trying the hew to consistent principles. I didn't support discounting election results when unfriendly forces won in Gaza, and I don't support it now.
A couple of weeks ago, a lot of people were going on about how awesome it was that the Iranians were finally having a real, hotly contested election, with a series of fiery debates, rallies and the whole gamut. That is the kind of process that we should still be supporting. It really should matter to people who the majority of Iranians want to have as their president.
June 19, 2009 3:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
I should add that I also hope above all for peace and an absence of bloodshed. I have never been a Jacobin. Not in 2002 and 2003, and not now. I know that some progressives are captivated by the whole revolutionary romance of students chanting slogans in the streets, and by the excitement of high-stakes intrigues, pamphlets, purges, marches, guillotines, tanks, etc. That's their instinctive image of political progress. But it's not mine.
June 19, 2009 3:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
I think you miss the point by talking about what the US government should do -- I agree with you that it should do nothing. Jim is talking about which side we, as progressive individuals, should be taking. I am beginning to accept that Ahmedinijad may have actually won, but that does not deter me from cheering for the people in the streets of Tehran. If they can win or force some reform, both the people of Iran and the rest of the world will be a better place.
June 19, 2009 3:55 PM | Reply | Permalink
What does that mean, to "take their side"? Does that mean saying here from the safety of home, "Yeah, I'm with you bro"? Or does it mean doing more than that?
If we lead Iranians to believe that Americans will back them up with force when the chips are down if they push the conflict to a violent confrontation with the regime, then we had better be prepared to act when the time comes.
But if we are not prepared to do that, then cheering the Iranians on and encouraging them from the sidelines is a cruel and self-indulgent exercise. I'm not in Iran, and I'm not planning to go to Iran soon to pick up the revolutionary bricks and banners. And I'm not planning on sending my kid or anyone else's kids to Iran to jump into the big Green Revolution. Given that, I wouldn't feel right about cheering "Go, Iranians!" from the sidelines as young Iranian kids start challenging tanks and armed ranks of security forces with Molotov cocktails.
This isn't just some political video game. These are real people and their lives are on the line.
June 19, 2009 4:13 PM | Reply | Permalink
I respect your pragmatism. And you are right there is nothing I can do but cheer from the sidelines and encourage the few Iranians I know to keep up the good fight. They realize that not only is the US is not going to come to their aid but are appalled at the thought that the US would. I think they also know that they a putting their lives on the line and I accept that as their decision.
June 19, 2009 4:41 PM | Reply | Permalink
From what I can glean from the Iranians themselves, they know they are putting their lives on the line, especially tomorrow's rally, and that this issue is between Iranians, but it helps to know that there are those around world watching and supporting their quest for the will of the people to be heard. There is nothing wrong to cheer from sidelines, just as we did with the Velvet Revolution, etc.
And I think it is important, and what has driven many of the Iranians in this protest, is that even if Ahmadenijad won, there is a huge difference between him getting 85% through a corrupt election and narrowly winning in a fair election.
I live in Indiana where Pence wins handily every time. But I can tell you I wouldn't accept if they came out and said we didn't count the votes, we just gave Pence 90% in every district, but don't worry the result would have been the same had we counted the vote.
June 19, 2009 6:28 PM | Reply | Permalink
Jim...
The bizarre behavior you see coming from Dan K and the always- nasty, but never too bright Seth Edenbaum is a bit analogous to the behavior of non-Russian (and maybe Russian as well) Stalinists of old, but with some obvious differences. In addition to being largely wrong, it's also just hard to figure out what they are saying.
They start with the laudable idea that America shouldn't interfere with Iranian internal politics and certainly shouldn't bomb it. So far so good. But then because the neocons and their fellow travelers begin to use Iran's severe political shortcomings as reasons to bomb it, they somewhat oddly feel the need to deny or mitigate these shortcomings.
Why they can't admit to these shortcomings, and even condemn them, and still oppose invasions and bombing, I don't know, but it seems to be too hard for them.
So, for example, in posts past you have Dan K arguing that Iran is a "semi democracy" and has a vibrant economy. Seth gets the award for pipul when he argues that, in contradistinction to Israel which has free and fair elections and had the choice of a fascist and something else pretty awful, if Iran ever has free and fair elections, a reformer will win. Well, even when Seth said this Iran had been trying to bring reformers to the fore since about 1901. And now that Iran presumably has had free and fair elections, it is remarkable that the ever nasty Seth is arguing either that 1) non-reformer Ahmed won or could have won, 2) Mousawi isn't a reformer and the folks in the streets (at least many of them) don't want reform.
Other ironies abound with this crowd, and Israel is never far from their minds (as you can see if you go over to TWN). So, they are always downplaying or denying or even cheering for Iran's meddling in Israel's affairs, symbolically or directly. They couldn't figure out where they stood on Iran's quest for the bomb: It couldn't want one because having the bomb contradicted Islamic principles. There is no evidence they want one (cue the IAEA) even when the NIE stated they gave up the quest in 2003 (doesn't that mean they both wanted one and were pursuing one?) And, finally, they have every right to want one and get one because, hey, they have to protect themselves against the Israeli bomb. I guess they've been vulnerable to this since about 1967 or so.
And finally, finally, when they are finally comfortably situated on the sidelines only wishing for what the Iranian people want, they pivot and become absolutely certain about Israel's role in all this. How Israel's been meddling. How Israel's benefiting from the Iranian "distraction." And Seth cites approvingly this one blogger who sounds--how to put it? positively Israeli--when she complains that Iran is being judged by a double standard: Where are all these critics when it comes to Egypt's fraudulent elections?
Bottom line, Dan K and the ever-nasty Seth seem strangely sanguine about the prospect of Ahmed's "possible" win. They don't say he did; they don't say he didn't. They don't even seem to care too much. Dan K reaches for the figleaf of concern for the welfare of students who may get hurt if he, Dan, speaks out from the hills of New England. Dan K never seems too concerned about anyone getting hurt in Israel--he's a full-throated critic! Suddenly, he becomes as sedate and even-tempered as J.S. Mill.
Anyway, the bottom of the bottom line is these folks really do resemble the old time followers of "Uncle Joe." They just can't believe their man is a bad guy and worthy of a solid critique. Call them followers of "Uncle Ahmed."
June 19, 2009 6:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
You are a lying jackass, Tintin. I never said half the things you are attributing to me, you doltish shithead.
I have barely said anything at all about Israel during this entire crisis, during which I have written dozens of comments on multiple sites. In fact, I noted early on that Israel and most of its neoconservative supporters in the US were openly hoping for an Ahmadinejad win. I find it very unlikely that Israel was working to engineer a Mousavi win. So there goes that lying, kneejerk rejection of my words.
I do think that some most radical supporters of Israel in the US, and a few folks in Israel whom I described as "even further to the right than Netanyahu" are now trying to take advantage of this crisis to sow chaos in the region. But I haven't said anything about Aipac and "the lobby" and the rest. And I have been just as harsh about liberal interventionists like George Packer as I have a the extremist pro-Israel right.
At the Washington Note, I have posted several times on this topic. You may want to read some of the things that I have posted to get a better sense of my views. Back on June 14th, for example, I wrote:
It would be well if Iran could manage to defeat Ahmadinejad democratically and constitutionally. Ahmadinejad is a buffoon, an ultra-nationalist xenophobe and an economic incompetent, who appears to function inside a bubble of conspiracy theories more outrageous than those peddled by the most zany conspiracy nuts of the American right or left. For example, not only does he appear to believe some of the usual 9/11 conspiracies, he also claimed last year that the names of the 9/11 victims had never even been published. It is no wonder that many reformists and centrists want this nitwit gone.
But I have consistently said the US should support the principle that the voices of the Iranian people should be heard, and that whoever in fact received the most votes is the guy who should be president. Iranians are entitled to vote for nitwits, just like Americans. I have criticized all sorts of pundits for their unsubstantiated conviction that Mousavi must have won. I have also outlined various hopes for peaceful resolutions of the crisis, in which parts of the regime might succeed removing Ahmadinejad through constitutional means, although those resolutions now look less likely to me.
The kids in Iran are about to get their asses handed to them, egged on by a bunch of dreamy US thumbsuckers and radical chic "progressive" tools. Still I'm sure they will die happy, knowing that Andrew Sullivan loves them.
Then after the tanks are finished rolling over the kids, and the Revolutionary Guards are done bashing their brains in and locking them up in dungeons, we will all be in the shit as the regime re-consolidates, purges its liberals and adopts a much more aggressive posture toward the region, possibly including US soldiers sitting on their border in Afghanistan and Iraq. The regime will blame the west for attempting to provoke a revolution, cheered on by a pack of witless bloggers and members of Congress. They will move closer to China and Russia, who may well jump at the chance to take advantage of a US setback.
All of those great Obama plans for Middle East peace and reconciliation? Dead.
But it just feels so good to root, root, root for those cooler-than-now students with their awesome green duds.
June 19, 2009 9:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
Dan, I've been reading you a long time. So my views are formed not just by what you've said over the past few days or weeks, but by long-time reading. Larger themes. Maybe that's unfair as it may fail to plot any change in your views. If so, I apologize.
Your quoted passage is sane and I agree with it.
However, folks have no trouble rooting, rooting for the guys with the kafiyehs, do they? No trouble making light of Israeli fears that this "buffoon" and "anti-Zionist" (what sane person isn't, right?) and Holocaust denier might be emboldened by nuclear weapons to help Israel disappear from the pages of time? What is the exact translation anyway.
And I do find it odd that folks on this blog--yes, apparently you too--are so sanguine about the Iranians working it out and getting free. By my count, they've been trying since around 1901 and still haven't succeeded. That's what? 48 or so more years than Israel's been trying to "work it out"?
When Congress says XYZ, I agree, it is egging and irresponsible. When Sullivan says XYZ, it's opinion and, I would surmise, has NO effect on what Iranian students or others do.
The meme seems to be that outside opinion leaders...Sullivan, Israeli twitters, Sleeper, Tintin...are somehow causing or having an appreciable effect on the actors in Iran. How ridiculous. I've known a lot of Iranians. One who was one of the original students way, way back. They hate the regime, Dan, and for good reasons.
As for strutting around with green armbands...how do you feel about the kaffiyehs?
June 19, 2009 11:36 PM | Reply | Permalink
I should add, Dan, that the "lying jackass" bit really is hommage to Pissed Off American at TWN. He says that all the time.
Strange, though, because he's a full throated supporter (along with Uncle Ahmed) of all the things you "say" are crazy, namely the 9/11 conspiracy theories. Not to mention the "theory" that Israel really is behind all the inciting events over there.
I've never heard you seriously contradict POA on these points, let alone argue with him. Maybe you don't like being called a jackass yourself--the fate of anyone who gets into anything resembling a discussion or debate with that fellow.
I have heard you peddle your views about Israel being an inherently warlike and militarist country, though. I think it was a "Wigwag" who brought you to task on that bit of...should we call it racist or just stereotypical thinking? I think your defense of that extended meditation on the true nature of Israelis and their society was something like..."well, it's possible, isn't it?"
But then the multitudes tried to smother old Wigwag because it just won't do to seriously question Dan K's thinking or motives. Anyone else...call them a prick, a lying jackass, whatever you want. It's open season. But suggest that Dan K was engaging in some malevolency, well...that's just going too, too far.
I love TWN, though. Act like "Carroll" or "Pissed Off American" or worse and you're golden. Yell "fuck Israel" and you get a lot of silence, 'cause everyone knows where you're coming from, man. No one says a thing. Suggest that Dan's views are racist and you better run.
Well, I guess it's "possible" too that Iran wants to get the bomb to help erase from the pages of time. I mean, it's possible, isn't it? How does that translation go again?
June 20, 2009 12:06 PM | Reply | Permalink
If you've got some personal axe to grind with me about the things I write on Washington Note, take it up with me there.
June 20, 2009 1:01 PM | Reply | Permalink
I see your point. Perhaps I am being unfair cross-referencing blogs. It's just hard to treat you as two different people: tpm dan and twn dan. I assume you're the same guy with views that don't stop at the blog borders.
Plus there's the POA language...
I think a more appropriate response to me would have been: My views have changed over time, or at least the way I express them has. In the past, you've clearly gone the extra mile to paint Iran's regime and its intentions in the best possible light--perhaps to counter balance the neocon push to war.
For any number of people, it's hard to shift gears when the critique isn't coming from, say, Israel, but from Iran's own people. To say it "would be well" if they could get rid of MA "democratically and constitutionally" ignores the fact that the regime, fundamentally, is NOT a democracy. The mullahs rule. So your statement is hardly a biting critique on parr, say, with Israeli society is fundamentally warlike.
It's a bit like me saying, it would be well if Israel and the Palestinians could just sit down and iron out their differences.
There, you were sounding a lot like Pipes and Perle, mutatis mutandis.
June 21, 2009 10:51 AM | Reply | Permalink
Do you post on TWN's threads?
June 20, 2009 1:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
I lurk.
The conversation among the regulars there, such as it is, is unpleasant (to me). Opinions outside the range of A to B are pilloried. Rather, the people are pilloried.
It gets a little rough here at times, but a wider range of people and opinion are "allowed" and welcomed.
But I lurk because some people are interesting to read, Dan, among them. Wigwag is interesting. And folks Clemons has post are interesting.
Then there is the neanderthal crew who seem to run the place.
June 20, 2009 10:22 PM | Reply | Permalink
Dan K wants to remain agnostic about what we've seen over the past few days by remaining agnostic about the actual vote count. This strikes me as a dodge.
It strikes me as intellectual honesty. I simply have no idea what the actual vote count was and I don't know how anyone writing from the U.S. could know.
I admit to being completely puzzled by what's happening in Iran. I do know a few Iranian-Americans personally, and I know that their sympathies lie with the demonstrators. My sympathies are with the demonstrators as well. But I am in no way confident that the demonstrators represent a majority. I'm also not convinced that the Mullahs really cared who won or had any interest in fixing the election for Amadinejad. We all know the Mullahs prescreen the candidates and weed out those they can't tolerate. I assume the ones they allow to run they can live with. So why would they bother to fix the election afterwards, when they've already ensured the outcome is acceptable--no matter what that outcome is--ahead of time?
My suspicion--completely unsupported I admit, but no less well supported than any other Westerner's speculation--is that Amadinejad really did win the election--maybe even to the dismay of the Mullahs. Having witnessed the passion of Mousavi's supporters before the election, however, the Mullahs were concerned that the reaction to Mousavi's loss might be particularly intense and violent if the election turned out to be very close. In an attempt to limit the intensity of the reaction, therefore, the Mullahs, when they realized Amadinejad had won, decided to make the victory seem like a landslide, figuring this would discourage Mousavi's supporters from protesting too vigorously. What they didn't anticipate was that Mousavi's supporters would see through the ruse and distrust the results even more than they might have had the election results been reported accurately and had shown the vote as close as I assume it actually was. The Mullahs, if this hypothesis is correct, weren't interested in fixing the election, but were interested in maintaining order. Their strategy backfired, however, and produced exactly the opposite of the intended result. Now the situation is spinning wildly out of control and the Mullahs feel they must exert force and crack down on the protesters. What will happen, I don't know. But my sense is that cracking down too forcefully will be another strategic mistake that results in an even more energized opposition. Americans, however, really have little ability to affect results and so I think all we can do is express general support for the Iranian people and wait and see what happens. Fortunately, we have a wise president now and this seems to be exactly what he'll do.
June 19, 2009 10:56 PM | Reply | Permalink
Why do you suspect Ahmed won?
If it's completely unsupported, why not suspect that Mousawi won?
June 20, 2009 11:30 AM | Reply | Permalink
As I said Tintin, it's pretty much pure speculation--or maybe just my gut instinct. But there are several reasons to believe Amadinejad did likely win:
Again, I have no way of knowing the real results, but I also don't feel that we can jump to conclusions one way or another. I do think, however, that the demonstrators--even if they are in the minority now--represent the future in Iran. It just may take time and I'm skeptical about the usefulness of US meddling. I think Obama is taking the wise course.
June 20, 2009 6:57 PM | Reply | Permalink
In '76, I had an encounter with some Iranian grad students (hard sciences) who were plotting to bring down the Shah. The Savak was given free rein by our own government to hunt them down. Given the revolutionary fervor that had suffused the northern CA enclaves I had been living in, I thought I knew from paranoia.
Nothing prepared me for the severe reaction to the discovery of my knowledge of their cell. Nothing. It didn't matter a whit that I was on "their" side. My friendship with the Jewish wife of one of the plotters was abruptly aborted and it was made clear to me that not only was I not to notice their clandestine meetings, but that my silence was required.
Those guys were not playing games. The terror in my friend's face as her fiercely hostile hubby delivered his ultimatums is seared into my memory 3 plus decades on.... The couple were soon on their way back to settle in Iran.
All of you honorable people who sincerely cheer on the Iranians on the streets of Tehran are cautioned against making assumptions about what "they" think or want or face.
Contemplating the days and months ahead...I'm feeling torn, conflicted and most of all, a growing sense of dread.
I'm with Dan and Seth.
June 19, 2009 8:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
Lally, I have the utmost respect for yours, Dan's and Seth's views. But the people marching in the streets of Tehran are reacting to years of rule by an oppressive religious government that tries to control every aspect of peoples lives -- what they drink, how they dress, their sexual preferences, everything. These people have a long secular tradition and can see how we in the west live. It is a form of oppression that none of us have experienced.
For reasons that I do not understand this election has reignited their desire for change. If they are now are willing to risk their lives to bring about change then we should respect that. As I said above, at this point it is quite irrelevant whether or not Ahmedinijad stole the election. Those people believe he did but what is driving them is much deeper sense for freedom. The fact that they may be a minority in Iran is also not really relevant.
Eorces have been unleashed that seems to have led large numbers of people to risk their lives for what they believe. And I too share your growing sense of dread, but can only hope that they prevail.
June 19, 2009 10:30 PM | Reply | Permalink
I know better than to assume that my personal frame of reference should be the filter through which I view a situation as complex, difficult and occluded as is this one.
We are seeing but a sliver of the big picture.
If there is one watchword in common from those who know Iran best, regardless of their individual bias, it is caution
And yet and yet....I came across this from a commenter on Josh Landis' "Syria Comment" and just had to look:
Syrian regime is still silent about what is going on in Iran. His media did not mention anything so far and they seem waiting on the sideline. While in Tehran and other big cities, the drama is still unfolding and authorities are cracking down on opposition.
Best picture:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article6498787.ece
It shows that the change will come on the hands of women who only them can beat the secret service.
http://joshualandis.com/blog/?p=3364#comments
These chadored women are dressed for action and ready to rumble.....;~{)
June 20, 2009 12:33 AM | Reply | Permalink
Am I the only one who finds it irritating to have Republicans and neo-cons mentioned in articles which are ostensibly about something else? Why bring them up at all? And who cares? Their time has come and gone.
The title of the article is "Now, the Crackdown," but the thrust of the article is about Republicans and neo-cons not getting it and falling into the same old military interventionist mode. What's that have to do with what I thought was about Supreme Leader Khamenei's "crackdown" on Mousavi supporters' planned demonstration? I was hoping for insight, not hindsight.
June 20, 2009 1:20 AM | Reply | Permalink
Just two thoughts in reading all of the above....
1. Might what is unfolding in Iran now be a cultural divide as much as anything else, pitting young urban, educated, secular and possibly wealthier against smaller town, rural, poorer less educated and/or more fundamentalist? If so, and if the police and military are made up of the latter group, this situation could well be more analogous to China in 1989 than Eastern Europe in the early 90's.
2. If, in fact, the regime is able to reassert control, it seems very likely that the first thing it will do is to focus people's attention on external events as a way to consolidate its grip on power. In that case, look for a very confrontational stance on the nuclear issue.
June 20, 2009 1:38 AM | Reply | Permalink
With all this vituperation, slander, ad hominem arguments and petty savagery, I'm afraid you gentlemen have made yourselves irrelevant. You appear to have forgotten about everything except who will win the contest for drama queen.
But thanks for the reminder of why I fled Middle Eastern studies in 1979. A pox on both your houses.
June 20, 2009 3:31 PM | Reply | Permalink
Well, unemployment is on the rise here in the good ol' USA, as we all know. Is there any reason why young Americans who can't get jobs here shouldn't be employed in fixing Iran?
Run the invasions and/or intervention with the same plans and paperwork as for Iraq, changing only the "Q" to an "N". I'm sure it'll work just as well.
Before I can give the proper weight to the arguements presented above I need to know two things: Are you the same "tintin" who posts at "Sadly, No!"? And are you, Seth, one of the Edenbaums from Syosset, NY? I might have gone to schul with you.
June 21, 2009 10:34 AM | Reply | Permalink
And Seth, no one is calling you a prawn.
June 21, 2009 10:35 AM | Reply | Permalink
"But I don't go out of my way to argue for the overthrow of the "Jewish state." I just don't defend it or any government founded on Jus Sanguinis, especially one that is a modern fabrication built on expropriated land. And of course I support those whose land has been expropriated, not those who've taken it."
Definitely not the Syosset Edenbaums I knew! Good for you!
June 21, 2009 10:40 AM | Reply | Permalink
"Fact is, Seth, I NEVER read YOU up in arms about any repression except when Israel oppresses the Palestinians. Not Egypt. Not China. Not Darfur. Not Congo. Not Syria. Never hear you complain about the ideological rot at the center of a regime unless it's the zionist ideology."
tintin
It's a hell of a thing, isn't it, tintin? But that's the way its going, pal. It won't be, as the old joke has it "good for the Jews".
You know, it might be a reaction to having Israel and the IDF stuffed down our throats since 1967. There was bound to be a reaction. I knew we were in dangerous territory when the IDF started becoming sex symbols. This is not going to turn out well, I told myself, and what was the upshot? No Gentile likes to think his girlfriend is clubbing the clam to a poster of shirtless, buff IDF soldiers.
So what did you expect? You know tintin, from those to whom too much is given, a little more is expected.
June 21, 2009 10:49 AM | Reply | Permalink
"So what did you expect? You know tintin, from those to whom too much is given, a little more is expected."
In this case, to whom much was given, a tremendous--unprecedented amount--was also taken. Mooser, this is a road you might not want to go down.
June 21, 2009 3:31 PM | Reply | Permalink