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Total Settlement Freeze? No, A Border

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Anticipating Bibi's speech, his coalition partners and Likud officials are flooding Israeli radio with interviews, insisting that settlements are not an obstacle to peace; that "natural growth" is, well, natural ("should parents tell their children they have to live elsewhere?"). Their claims will strike the ears of informed Americans the way old cigarette commercials do. You blush for people who think others this gullible, or wishful, or hooked. For my part, I have been waiting for an American government to insist on a total settlements freeze for over 30 years. One didn't have to be a genius to see the danger.

Still, there is something about the anticipated stand-off between Netanyahu and the Obama administration that makes me queasy. Had Ronald Reagan, following Jimmy Carter's lead, demanded a total freeze in 1980, then we would have had something. Today the demand reminds me of the Steve Martin bit about the implacable customer at a restaurant who, having waited too long for his dinner, complains to the maître d' that he can be appeased only by being served his steak "15 minutes ago."

Sure, Obama needs to make a clear break with the past, indeed, to make a show of force to Israeli rightists. But insisting on a total freeze today, when settlements have turned into substantial towns full of mobilized youth--towns whose residents should be understood as on a scale somewhere between Pat Robertson and David Koresh--seems false. The real goal is a fair, recognized border between two states as soon as possible, so that both sides will know how to plan. Focusing on a total freeze means insisting on the symbol, which cannot seriously be delivered, and deferring the fight over what is symbolized, which will require a hard line from America and the world anyway.

We are supposed to be telling truth to one another, you see, and the truth about these goddamn settlements is that the June 4, 1967 border is no longer feasible, even if the principle of setting a border on the basis of June 4th. is. The only hope is for America to come out, now, for the principle of a 1:1 land swap to achieve geographical area for Israel and Palestine equal to what existed on June 4; to appoint an international commission to suggest a map. This map will need time to sink in. And it will be a way to reconcile the Arab League peace initiative to the difficulties of moving settlers back into Israel.

OUT OF THE half million Israelis who live over the Green Line, about 400,000 live in densely packed communities, more or less contiguous with Israel (like Gush Etzion), or in suburbs of Jerusalem (like Gilo). Some 75-100,000 live in outlying settlements scattered around Hebron and between Ramallah and Nablus. It is these latter settlers who will have to be returned to Israel. The former are obviously staying put.

But just getting the outliers resettled will take years, just like moderating Hamas and rehabilitating the Palestine Authority, reviving Gaza, and so forth, will take years. The IDF and Israeli police could never muster enough boots on the ground to simply move these settlers by force--anyway, a good part of the IDF's officers sympathize with settlement. If the government tried force, even just to stop construction in Gush Etzion, the settlers would almost certainly commit provocations against neighboring Palestinians that would get Israel's Arab citizens up in arms. In this polarized situation, we'd be a step away from Balkan-style violence.

Indeed, to get these people out eventually, you have to 1) politically marginalize them, that is, create a conflict of interest between settlers who fall within an agreed border and those more fanatic types falling outside it; 2) induce them to return to agreed settlements or to within the Green Line with time-limited financial compensation; 3) threaten them with power and water cuts on this or that date; and, these measures failing, 4) remove them by siege and, if necessary, force. This is going to be very hard. The IDF should require NATO forces to replace its own forces as it withdraws.

In other words, Obama should use the dispute over a settlements freeze as an occasion to rally the world community to drawing up a permanent border, something along the lines of the one offered in the Geneva Initiative, where Palestinian representatives and Israel peace activists themselves understood the need for a new border--and international forces to help secure it. Obama should make clear that a border is not Israel's internal affair. That, for example, the world will never recognize the town of Ariel as part of a future Israel (Olmert insisted that it is, which is among the reasons his talks with Abbas went nowhere). A strong sense of where America wants the border would be an early win for the peace process, which could unlock many other possibilities.

I KNOW THAT my Palestinian friends will find anything less than a total freeze infuriating. Every new apartment feels like a new slap in the face, a continuing insinuation that their tragedy doesn't matter or never happened. In this sense the settlements are not just an obstacle to peace but the continuing cause for hatred and war. After all, Israel conquered something like an area equal to the West Bank during the 1948 war, declared its 400 Arab villages abandoned and more or less leveled them, preventing its 750,000 residents from returning. It then settled the new lands with about a million and half Jewish refugees of its own: survivors from Europe and people expelled from Arab states. In the 1920s and 30s, land purchases by the Jewish National Fund from absentee landlords--for example, from Beirut's Sursok family in the Valley of Jezreel--led to the displacement of tens of thousands of farmer peasants.

So according to the Palestinians, or shall we say (in nice post-modern language) the Palestinian narrative, the settlement project since 1967 only seems more of the same. Likud people, for their part, respond that there were no West Bank settlements before 1967, and Arab countries threatened attack anyway--as if Israelis were ever reconciled to Palestinian rights when Palestinians did not prove that they could not be overwhelmed militarily. Likud people also insist that if the Zionists are wrong to settle around Hebron now then they were wrong to settle around Haifa in the 1930s--a view breathtaking in its shallowness. As I've implied here before, we'd cheer Javert for hunting down Jean Valjean if, after the latter became a mayor, he continued stealing candlesticks.

NEVERTHELESS, VIRTUALLY ALL Palestinians I know are prepared to say what Obama said, that, tragically, the Naqba resulted from the Jews' European tragedy, and that they will compromise on the 1967 border--so long as a way can be found to compensate and resettle the original refugees of 1948 in a Palestinian state--indeed, so long as the futures of Israel and Palestine are linked to larger federal arrangements. These two city-states cannot be disentangled economically or in almost any other way. We need a border even if five years after it is drawn hardly anyone will care where it is, except when elections are called.

And Obama is right to prevent any new settlement projects from being added to the 160 that already exist--right to insist that Israel remove new outposts, or prevent building that fills in the gaps between existing settlements; prevent projects that compromise still further East Jerusalem as the capital of a future Palestinian state.

Yet it is unimaginable to get a total construction freeze across the Green Line today. We need a border and we cannot depend on new negotiations to produce it. The original border between Israel and the aborted Palestinian state was produced by UNSCOP, not by negotiation. Something like a new international commission, reporting to George Mitchell, should go to work. The Roadmap is fine and well, but what good is it without a driver?


46 Comments

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I wrote about this at some length in my TPMCafe blog about a month ago in an article I entitled "The Two-State Delusion" ( http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/talk/blogs/purple_state/2009/05/the-two-state-delusion.php ). I agree that shutting down the settlements is impossible. Further, I believe that even land swaps are difficult now (because there is little high-quality land available to give the Palestinians in exchange for the land on which the large settlements have been built). Increasingly, I can only conclude that a federated or bi-national solution is the only one that will work. And honestly, in a world that is increasingly global, some kind of truly pluralistic solution that de-emphasizes ethno-religious differences between peoples is clearly the best solution. Why not give up on this silly two-state delusion and start working for what we all know is the right solution and which very may will be the only workable solution short of outright ethnic cleansing of the Palestinians?

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Sorry for the typo in last line (should proof before I hit submit): Should read:

Why not give up on this silly two-state delusion and start working for what we all know is the right solution and which very well may be the only workable solution short of outright ethnic cleansing of the Palestinians?

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Purple state, "The Hebrew Republic" is, among other things, an appeal for a federal solution. I have been arguing the point for twenty years. But you still have to start with a border.

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Yes, as I've read your posts, I've become more and more encouraged, in fact. I think you are headed very much in the right direction. I just hope more start following!

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One thought on this: if we really are working toward an Israeli-Palestinian federation might it be better to establish that as the agreed-upon end game before trying to draw a border? The problem I see is that, if the end game is unclear and two fully separate states is a possible outcome, then the border becomes of essential importance. With the border that important, I fear no agreement will ever come because establishing a mutually acceptable border is so difficult. But once we know we are headed for a federation, then the precise border is far less important and therefore easier to negotiate. So maybe it's important to get a agreement on a federated solution first, then work toward borders. I understand that getting agreement on a federated solution isn't easy either (it will take years, I'm afraid)--but if we start working for that now and start to win people over to the idea, then our chance of ultimate success, I think, is greatly improved. A contentious negotiation over borders with the final status still unclear might just increase distrust and hostility and set us back even more.

Just a thought. But I'll repeat, I'm delighted to hear some serious discussion about alternatives to the conventional ways of thinking about this problem. Thanks Bernard.

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A banned TPMCafe regular, olim bar_kochba132/YBD/? has made some points about the "Hebrew Republic" that, not having read it, makes me wonder if they have any relation to the reality of your proposals:

Y. Ben-David said...
"I am surprised you like Bernard Avishai's "Hebrew Republic". His Hebrew Republic is just another Rhodesia placed in the Middle East. A colonialist, settler state with no roots in the region. A soulless, materialist, consumer state that is totally alien to the Middle East milieu. Such a state would end up going the way of Rhodesia, as well. Remember, Rhodesia was a model state but it couldn't last.

Avishai's Hebrew Republic would INCREASE the hostility to Israel from its already high level today. A truly "Jewish" state, based on Judaism is not a missionary state intent on changing the culture and religion of its Arab/Muslim neighbors. Avishai's Hebrew Republic, on the other hand, is a direct threat to their culture and religion. Avishai keeps saying that the idea is to turn the Israeli Arabs in "Hebrews" in a cultural and "national" sense which means ripping them away from their Arab identity and implanting Western, secular values on them..."
https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=7675600882597316438&postID=2473680832337148047

While bar_kochba132/Y Ben-David is a racist when it comes to generic Arabs, he is more generally correct about the importance of their deeply held Muslim values that transcend allegiance to sect.

Does his take accurately reflect your aspirations as presented in the Hebrew Republic?

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Your proposal at least has the veneer of realistic thinking. It's still quite far from being actually so...but its a good start.

Now if you can only get your ally, the escaped mental patient Alfred E. Newman, to concur...

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Freeze the settlements then tear them down

30 years of misguided US policy is no reason for even four more

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"Natural growth" for the Palestinians in Greater Israel!

We won't have to long worry over Bibi's latest condition (excuse) for footdragging that the Palestinians recognize a "jewish" state

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If you really want to understand why your proposal is still so unrealistic consider this;

How likely is it that Arab states and Iran will allow Jews and their descendants expelled since 1920 to return to their ancient communities and take full possession of their stolen properties and be granted equal rights and citizenship?

If they agreed, and were believed, Israel's population would be reduced by nearly 40% and its need for more space, although not for security, would be dramatically reduced. Israelis might then might even be forced to allow a limited right of return to Palestinians.

It'll never happen. Never. Neither Muslims nor Jews would ever agree. They simply don't trust or like each other enough...

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Absentee landlords are still landlords. Absentee owners are still owners. I thought you were better than this Avishai, but apparently I was wrong. You're just as bad as all the other loonies here; laws are to be enforced, but only when YOU like them. That's not law at all.

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Huh? You mean that selling out land from under tenant farmers is not going to cause them grief and rage? Look, I have argued that the issue was also modernization; that the landlords would probably have sold to larger Arab agricultural enterprises; that the tenant holdings were, according to the British, too small to survive.

http://www.nybooks.com/articles/7143

But, still, political common sense takes into consideration that things that are legal are not all going to be swallowed. (And how much less settlements that were illegal from the start.)

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You mean that selling out land from under tenant farmers is not going to cause them grief and rage?
You have it exactly right. It did cause grief and rage. So the British responded by making it illegal for Jews to immigrate and buy land, and the Arabs, to the extent it was in their power, enforced such strictures with death.

That, of course, caused grief and rage among the Jews who felt they had every right to settle there, and who had hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of refugees to care for. The result was a conflict which drove out the British and is with us to this day.

Which shows you the limits of the law; it cannot exist unless most of the powerful elements of a society are behind it (the poor can be pushed around...but not without limit). That's why international law is such a bad joke.

By the way, there's a lesson here for those who claim that Jews did not buy the land which they occupied in 1948 without mentioning that the British made it illegal for them to do so.

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"By the way, there's a lesson here for those who claim that Jews did not buy the land which they occupied in 1948 without mentioning that the British made it illegal for them to do so."

That's a non-sequitur. The fact that Palestinians were driven off their land by force is not excused by the fact that the British didn't allow Jews to buy as much land as they wanted.

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Wrong.

The British completely cut off land purchase and immigration at a time when Jews badly needed to do both to survive. You also gloss over the fact that Arabs were legally forced off land that didn't belong to them.

A lot of good it does to point out these things. What ever people like you don't want to see they simply ignore.

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This is the best front page post on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict that we have had here for a long time. I'm encouraged that it is finally sinking in among the commentariat that praising Obama to the skies for "getting tough" with Israel, simply on the basis of his call for the minimal first step of a freeze, will end up empowering the rejectionists.

The really worrying prospect is that the freeze could be transformed politically into an end in itself, so that if the Israeli government finally goes along with it after a long period of obstruction, the freeze will then portrayed as another "magnanimous gesture" and great moment in Israeli peacemaking, and a public relations tool for freezing the current facts on the ground in place.

The key thing is for the international community, fully supported by the United States, to define the shape of an acceptable final status resolution and to stop kicking the can down the road indefinitely toward "negotiations". Unless the US and other world governments are clear about what a just and durable peace looks like, it will be impossible to mobilize our confused publics behind any common agreement about what things are obstacles to peace, and what things aren't.

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Agreed. How about agreeing on what a "State" is? We don't want to allow the Isarelis to claim they support a Palestinian "state," which actually has no attributes of a nation state, i.e., control over its borders, airspace, resources, and has no right to trade or negotiate with other states. Whatever that political arrangement is, it emphatically is not a "state."

I would certainly expect that the new Palestinian state will have some type of UN stewardship for the first decade or so, but it must be a real state, not a fiction.

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If I'm not mistaken, hasn't Israel agreed more than once to a halt of further settlements only to continue expanding them wihtout even a brief pause? This is a real question. the whole situation over there has been going on so long and there has been so much back and forth it all seems to blur together. Frankly, I get sick and tired of the inability of all parties over there to figure out how to live together.

It seems to me that when I was in high school the settlements were under discussion and I got our of high school in 76. During that entire span of time the conflict has only seemed to worsen and the settlements are always at the heart of the dipute aren't they? I've never understood the duplicity about the settlements and here I see duplicity on the part of both the US and Israeli governments.

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here I see duplicity on the part of both the US and Israeli governments.
It might help if you opened your eyes.

Duplicity is an inherent part of politics. It exists everywhere. Certainly among the Arabs, the Iranians, the Russians, the Europeans, and the Chinese...as well an among the Americans and Israelis.

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How astute and enlightening.

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I thought you needed a lesson in the obvious. Since it is so obvious please tell me where you think Arabs have been duplicitous in their dealings with Jews? How about liberals?

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I agree it's too late and there should now be a land swap. Of course, Israel's tactic in establishing 'facts on the ground' decades ago should have been obvious even to a schoolchild - possibly even to George Bush.

There has been a practical proposal that the entire Negev south of Dimona should be Palestinian land which would give them a contiguous state from Gaza across to the West Bank. The vast majority is uninhabited but with massive aid from the World Bank for the construction of desalination plants, it could be made very liveable.

Of course, Israel could transfer over Dimona also, but that is somewhat less likely.

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Eliat would be hard for Israel to give up (it's the real prize in this swath of land); but Eliat for East Jerusalem and the surrounding settlements seems like a fair deal. Eliat would give Palestine a deep water port, something the state will need if the Palestinians are really going to establish an industrial base. A Palestine with Eliat is far more viable than other Palestines I've seen proposed. It's just a shocker, I think, for Israel. However, if we really want two states instead of a federation or bi-national state, this is the sort of compromise that will need to be reached, I think.

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Proposed Partition of Israel

* to be read in conjunction with Proposed Partition drawing dated 15.09.06


1. On May 22 1967 Nasser announced the closure of the Strait of Tiran, a vital shipping corridor for Israel with links to the Red Sea and major sources of petroleum. A similar closure of the strait had been a major cause of the Suez Crisis in 1956; Israel has made clear since then that it would regard another closure as an act of war. However, this proposal does intend to show direct access to Eilat from the sea although it does not show any direct access from the north. This could be rectified by a rail link.

2. The proposal stipulates that East Jerusalem would form part of a new Palestinian state.

3. This is a novel proposal intended to give both sides much of what they want including recognition of Israel, a two state solution and an end to hostilities.

4. The proposal envisages Israel ceding the Negev, south of Dimona, (which is currently occupied by perhaps 100,000 Bedouins), to form part of a new contiguous Arab state.

4a. The proposal also stipulates that the existing, large, contiguous West Bank settlements would become part of Israel.

5. The proposal to build desalination plants powered by nuclear energy from Dimona would serve two primary aims: firstly it would enable the Negev to be made fertile to form part of a new viable state and secondly it would legitimise Israel's covert nuclear programme in the sight of the international community.

6. The vast area of the southern Negev would require a chain of desalination plants to provide sufficient water for both potable use and for agriculture. Each plant individually would normally be powered by a gas-turbine. However, in this concatenated configuration proposal they would all be powered from one nuclear energy source, in Dimona.

7. Israel would not be expected to view this proposal favorably initially as the Negev (although having been left virtually untouched since 1948) is nevertheless viewed there with some romanticism, however, when the possibilities are examined in detail, it can be seen that there are tremendous gains possible that can far and away outweigh any losses, on either side.


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1. Proposed partition to provide for an independent Palestinian state comprising of the West Bank, East Jerusalem, Gaza and the Negev, south of Dimona, but excluding Eilat.

2. Israeli settlements existing in the West Bank to be incorporated into Israel.

3. Rationale. Over 90% of Israel’s population currently lives north of Beersheba – there being no Israeli towns or substantial residential settlements between Dimona and Eilat – both of which would remain part of Israel.

4. The Negev itself is about 6700 sq miles of mainly arid land virtually devoid of people and with an average rainfall varying from 2-12 inches annually

5. Desalination plants to irrigate the Negev could be supplied by energy from Israel’s nuclear facility at Dimona.

6. Costs of partition and irrigation including SWRO Desalination plants to be borne by the World Bank or the EU / US

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I have explained to you in the past why the notion of giving up Eilat is not "hard", it's impossible given the long-term economic and security needs/benefits/interests as they are perceived by Israel.

Try taking Eilat out of the equation and going from there.

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I'm not sure I disagree with you, Lally. In fact, that's the basic premise of my primary argument: given all the needs and desires of both parties, a two-state solution is impossible. If Israel could agree to a concession on the scale of giving up Eliat or the Palestinians agree to the limited Bantustan-like entity Netanyahu wants (reluctantly) to grant them, then a two-state solution would be possible. But given that no party will agree to the concessions the other party will require for a deal to be reached, a two-state solution seems to me to be utterly impossible. And 40, 60, 80 years of fruitless negotiation is pretty strong empirical evidence that I'm right.

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PS.

I have never seen any proposal that includes Eilat so am curious why you have focused on it. It's a non-starter and were I Israeli, I would say HELL NO, NO DAMN WAY! The Palestinians have no need for a deepwater port that can accomodate oil tankers.

If the plans for the multiple seabed pipelines (including water!) from Turkey could manifest, many of Israel's primary interests/needs could be served including more cooperation with the neighbors. Eilat is integral to that proposal. Anyhow, that's MY dream and I'm stickin' to it cause my focus is on regional accomodation and integration.

As I've said before, the two state solution seems more and more dubious to me, too.

However, some wag commenting on a blog frequented by Lebanese and Syrians (mostly disapora) suggested that a Palestinian state that reaches to the borders of Jordan AND Lebanon could work as it would provide a security buffer and return peoples to the lands many of them fled.

However doubtful, it seems logical in a wacky sort of way.

BTW, there is a considerable amount of advanced Israeli research into solar collection fields and I've seen a suggestion that the resulting energy could be utilized to power desalinization.

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Ceding Eliat has two pluses for a two-state solution:

1. It unites Gaza and the West Bank, while leaving both states with continuous territories. If you leave Eliat in Israeli hands, then there's the problem of establishing a corridor between Eliat and the rest of Israel.

2. Eliat actually has value and therefore might be considered fair compensation for Israel's keeping all of Jerusalem and most of the surrounding settlements. Essentially this suggestion is to trade Eliat for East Jerusalem. Jerusalem is such an emotional issue the trade may not be desirable to the Palestinians, but economically it's a good one for the Palestinians.

Remember, however, I'm not saying this is a likely deal or even a good approach to solving the conflict--I'm just using it as an example of the kind of radical deal that might make a two-state solution work. Without something this radical, I think, as I've said repeatedly, the two-state solution is doomed to failure. For all the difficulties a one-state solution presents, I think ultimately it is the more workable solution--though overcoming the emotional obstacles to such a state will be a huge undertaking.

One other comment. In your post you say two things that I think underscore the problem with most two-state solutions proposed to date. The two comments are these:

The Palestinians have no need for a deepwater port that can accomodate oil tankers. and

If the plans for the multiple seabed pipelines (including water!) from Turkey could manifest, many of Israel's primary interests/needs could be served . . .

Taken together the statements reflect both an overriding concern with meeting Israel's needs and a dismissal of Palestinian needs and abilities. This, unfortunately, is typical of most two-state solutions proposed (even those more generous than the one Netanyahu presented yesterday). The vision you have for Eliat could be accomplished regardless of whether Eliat is in Israel or Palestine. It's true the Palestinians would need more international support to make it happen then the Israelis, but in the context of getting a new Palestinian state off the ground they would get that help. So if your concern is really for the regional benefits of developing Eliat, there's no necessary reason why Israel needs to control Eliat. In the right context, with the right support, the Palestinians could do exactly what the Israelis would do--and it would be a fabulous way to jump-start the nascent Palestinian economy. One might also argue that states like Turkey would be more willing to cooperate if the project was part of a comprehensive solution to the Middle East problem than if it were simply an Israeli initiative. So maybe turning over Eliat would even advance the prospect for regional development, since it would so vastly improve Israel's relationships with its neighbors.

Of course all of this is so unlikely to happen that it's probably not worth debating. The more likely course is that we will continue to dither about a two-state solution for decades more until something snaps and we end up with an emergency that forces some kind of (hopefully not too violent) final solution.

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PS.

Thanks for your reply and sorry for my delay in adressing it.

You say;

Taken together the statements reflect both an overriding concern with meeting Israel's needs and a dismissal of Palestinian needs and abilities. This, unfortunately, is typical of most two-state solutions proposed (even those more generous than the one Netanyahu presented yesterday). The vision you have for Eliat could be accomplished regardless of whether Eliat is in Israel or Palestine. It's true the Palestinians would need more international support to make it happen then the Israelis, but in the context of getting a new Palestinian state off the ground they would get that help. So if your concern is really for the regional benefits of developing Eliat, there's no necessary reason why Israel needs to control Eliat.

After years of a tight focus on Israel, I began to understand how much of her problems are regional. The Palestinian issue is only one aspect and altho connected, Israeli aggressiveness is not confined to the WB and Gaza. The intense focus on "normalization" within the ME is a huge factor in Israel's positions about her position in the neighborhood and subsequent paranoia.

I see the pipeline project as one course toward normalization as it requires cooperation on something other than military/security matters. Israel has to start to deal with her neighbors in a normal state-to-state way without relying on US muscle and by forming and keeping agreements.

As far as Eilat's importance in the pipeline scheme, the notion is that Israel could earn transit fees from the portion of the crude-carrying pipeline that crosses the country and profit from being a broker.

The success of the proposals depends on Israel coming to terms with a wide range of entities:

Supply of Russian and Caspian Gas from Turkey by a Sea Pipeline

"Before the Gaza War Israel held talks with Turkey to create an "infrastructure corridor," a project of about $3 billion, where Israel would import natural gas and water through a pipeline from Turkey's port of Ceyhan. Israel and Turkey signed a memorandum of understanding and decided to carry out a feasibility study to determine the technical and economic aspects of the project. But the Gaza War considerably strained Israel-Turkey relations. Turkey's ruling party, the Islamist ruling Justice and Development Party (AKP) has sided with Hamas against Israel and Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan emerged as one of Israel's harshest critics, demanding that Israel should be expelled from the United Nations while it ignored the organization's calls to stop the fighting in Gaza, which he called Israel's "savagery." As tension subsides one can expect an attempt by Israel to repair its relations with Ankara but until this happens it is unlikely that the project would move forward as planned.

The relations with Turkey will also determine whether Israel could become a transit country for Russian and Caspian energy. In the range of Hamas' fire is the 254-kilometer pipeline connecting the Red Sea port of Eilat with the Mediterranean port of Ashkelon. The pipeline is planned to be expanded to bring oil from the Russia and the Caspian region through Ceyhan to Ashkelon and from there to pumped to Eilat and re-loaded onto tankers to be shipped to Asia at a more competitive price and with more capacity than the Suez Canal. Such a plan would not only provide Israel with transit fees but also positions it as an important east-west corridor which reduces tanker traffic in the bottlenecked Suez Canal. It can also open the Indian and Chinese markets to Russian energy and hence reduce Russia's dependence on the European market. But to gain all of these energy security benefits, Israel and both Turkey and the Palestinians will have to mend some fences and work with Egypt, the US, Europe and Russia to establish proper security arrangements that would diminish the risk of another flare up. If Hamas permanently ceases the rocket attacks and adopts a more conciliatory approach toward Israel, a sustainable cease fire can be achieved giving second life to the Trans-Israel Pipeline route. If the rocket threat is not properly addressed and weapons smuggling via the tunnels under the Egypt-Israel border are not stopped, the countdown to a new round of hostilities will soon begin. This will not only diminish the prospects of Israel becoming an energy corridor but also call into question Israel's entire energy security strategy which pins its hope on natural gas."
http://www.ensec.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=178:energy-security-challenges-for-israel-following-the-gaza-war&catid=92:issuecontent&Itemid=341

This ambition is not easily dismissed nor is the religious importance of Jerusalem to Palestinians AND other followers of Islam in the region.

As a realist, I don't see your plan as workable.

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No problem Lally--and thanks for replying. Your article on the pipeline project is very helpful, too.

I agree that the long-term goal is normalization of relationships. I think though, the pre-requisite for Israel fully normalizing its relations with its Muslim neighbors (and proceeding with any joint ventures with Turkey or any other Muslin nation) is normalizing its relations with the Palestinians. I'm afraid though that normalization won't come as "cheap" as too many in Israel seem to want. If Israel isn't willing to make more significant concessions to the Palestinians than what they've offered so far, I'm afraid they won't ever get an agreement or, therefore, normalization. At some point either the two-state solution will need to be made more generous to the Palestinians or a one-state solution (which is true normalization, I might add) will need to be pursued. Until then, it's just more of the same . . . over and over . . . as it has been for decades. Lots of people seem to think Obama is going to get Israel and the Palestinians closer to solving their conflict. Realistically, though, I'm not sure how. I think we're still very far away. And I think we will remain very far away until people dispense with the conventional wisdom about the conventionally conceived two-state solution. The answer to the problem will be either a very different two-state solution that gives much more to the Palestinians than is currently being offered or a one-state solution.

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PS.

I see things through a wide-angle lens and don't consider THE PROBLEM to be subject to an either/or solution. AFAIK, the Israelis need to move on a parallel track with the Syrians and others such as Turkey in order to begin to reverse their self-caused "isolation". Some minister from Bahrain took heat for suggesting holding a region-wide conference that includes Iran and Israel....I thought it was a fine idea.

Israelis consider "Arabs" as a generic group to be the enemy and pure ignorance is at the basis of their fears. I've seen some peacenik type Israelis urging that if only Lebanon and Syria would open up their countries to well-known, respected Israeli journalists; such moves could begin to punch holes in the siege mentality.

Who knows? Perhaps the retired IDF and investor types who are involved in the pipeline project(s) will someday get practical and push for peace in order to profit.

I do respect your efforts, Purple State. I'm just so glum about the whole mess......

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What to do? What to do? Two children want the same piece of candy. The United States had been telling the children that the candy will be divided. The US then allowed one child to have little pieces of it. That child became spoiled with specialness. The truth: the parent and the spoiled child have both been complicit in the current circumstances. Now the parent is having second thoughts. The spoiled brat is throwing a hissy fit. What is fair? What is fair? Is it still fair to divide the piece of candy? Ask any five year old.

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There seems to be a confusion here between a "freeze" (not building any MORE settlements) and removal (vacating the existing settlements).

The practical objections to the latter do not apply to the former. In particular, the crybaby nonsense about children having to live elsewhere is even more worthless than the usually settler propaganda garbage. If you believe that latest ploy, then you are for abolishing zoning all across America: This is ridiculousness that only these long overdue-for-booting-out-of-US-politics foreign fanatics could expect to have believed.

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Sorry, but no reasonable person believes that Obama would be satisfied with a freeze (that excludes most TPMCafe posters). He explicitly said otherwise. So have the Arabs and that part of the International Community which backs them.

I suggest that you and Blue Pearl give up the analogy to disputes between children. It makes you both look like complete fools.

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My prior comments pertain to THIS column by Mr. Avishai which is about a freeze (mostly). Of course, removal of the outpost settlements is absolutely vital to any lasting agreement on a Palestinian state, and much more difficult to carry out than a freeze.

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Want some candy?

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Ordinary says: "I suggest that you and Blue Pearl give up the analogy to disputes between children. It makes you both look like complete fools.'

Wow. That's like being called short by Danny DeVito or promiscuous by Paris Hilton.

Take the shame.

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Then there needs to be a freeze until the borders can be worked out. Israelis clearly intend to occupy and control the entire area including the West Bank and Gaza if they are left on their own.

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As I write I listen to the words that appear sincere by Premier Netanyahu but both he and his father, for over 60 years have been adamant that there must be a 'Greater Israel' with the transfer of all Muslims out of Israel/ Palestine. He has never retracted or withdrawn that objective which is still the current goal of LIKUD.

Unfortunately, peace is not his agenda nor will he stop the settlement expansion whichj was started three decades ago specifically to put 'facts on the ground' that cannot now be removed. That was and is an intentional strategy.

Both Jews and Arabs have a valid claim to Palestine and for one side to assume sole sovreignty and to

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Thanks to "Jerry Haber", orthodox Jewish historian and "Magnes Zionist" for this vision of a Federal State published (in Hebrew) in 2008:

A 1931 Zionist Proposal for a Federal State in Palestine

"Rather than listen to Bibi's speech about his vision for an emasculated Palestinian quasi-"state" (maybe), I thought that I would tell my readers of a bold plan for a federal state proposed by an important Zionist leader of the Yishuv in 1931. This is dedicated to those of you who think that the Zionists believed that the Balfour Declaration guaranteed the Jews an independent state."

snip]

[…] Arabic and Hebrew will be completely equal in all their rights throughout the Land of Israel and in all its institutions […] The international status of the State of the Land of Israel will be determined by a reciprocal agreement of the Council of the Federal Alliance from one side, and the Mandate government and the League of Nations on the other.

And who was this Zionist leader, who, four years after the formation of the Brit Shalom of Buber and Simon, proposed his own vision of a binational state?

None other than David Ben Gurion, writing in HaPoel haTza'ir , May 20 1931. The text is from the a Hebrew book published in 2008, entitled "Brit Shalom" and Binationalist Zionism: The Arab Question as a Jewish Question, ed. Adi Gordon (Carmel), pp. 311-12. Ben-Gurion's proposal certainly gave the Palestinian Arabs as much national rights as it did the Jews. In fact, his proposal gave much more rights to the Arabs than did the Adalah Proposal of several years ago.

Which just goes to show how easy it is to offer power-sharing when you have no power yourself; or binationalism, when you are a tiny minority."
http://themagneszionist.blogspot.com/2009/06/zionist-proposal-for-federal-binational.html#links

Another big BRAVO! to Jeremiah Haber for his contributions to the ongoing debates.

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Jerry Haber is an interesting guy.

I wonder how Ben Gurion's offer of power-sharing was received by those who had power?

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Do you read Hebrew? If not, perhaps you could ask Haber.

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Kudos to Bernard Avishai for injecting some realism and new thinking into the tired debate about a settlement freeze - as if that would accomplish anything at all. I totally agree that the establishment of a recognized border is a much more productive area to focus on.

But as a practical matter, I do wonder about the feasibility of taking the drawing of a border out of the hands of the Israelis and the Palestinians and leaving it up to an international committee. Let's suppose such a committee could be constructed and it was scrupulously fair. Don't you think that the final result would still need to be ratified by the Israeli and Palestinian governments? How would either government accomplish that? In Israel at least, it could be the opening shot in a long-feared period of civil unrest, as the most fanatic of the settlers realize the jig is up. On the Palestinian side, I suspect there would be similar repercussions, as the fanatics (and even the so-called "moderates") there realize that the conflict is about to be declared over and they won't get everything (or even most) of what they want.

And the analogy with UNSCOP is a poor one. It was formed at a time when neither side had a recognized sovereign state. Plus the Jews at least would have taken anything at all (as Chaim Weitzman famously said, "We'll take a state the size of a tablecloth if need be."), so anxious were they for sovereignty. Now of course, the idea that Israel would agree to turn over such a momentous issue as its border to a international committee seems far-fetched.

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The more likely course is that we will continue to dither about a two-state solution for decades more until something snaps and we end up with an emergency that forces some kind of (hopefully not too violent) final solution.

@purple state

That 'emergency' will most likely be with the next few months, not decades, and the final solution will probably not be a solution but a blackened, smoking and contaminated Middle East.

That happens when people pursue their ideologies ad infinitum regardless of the ultimate effect on our world.

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So you would prefer a different "final solution". Well, we all know that.

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