More on Settlements-Israel and Obama
A quick post to respond to Josh and to some of the others who commented on my settlements' post and Friday's poll. The important thing to remember is that the Israeli public has never dropped below a majority of support for leaving the settlements; what that means ultimately is up to a political solution and a political leadership in Israel--along with a viable Palestinian leadership and US support to turn the majority into a politically viable reality.
But there is really no reason to expect that not to happen with the political cards in place. There is minimal support for the settlement project overall in Israel and few Israelis, outside of the Orthodox and Ultra-Orthodox even travel to the settlements or encounter them except when on army duty to protect the settlers, something many soldiers resent.
The settlers know how precarious their situation is inside Israel, which is why they instigate the violence in the first place-though the more violence on their side, the less popular they become.
The nuances in the poll like 'natural growth' etc are not serious-anyone when asked could reasonably say that it's natural for someone to be able to build a room onto their house for a new child; anyone also could reasonably say-no--it is not reasonable to build a new neighborhood across the street and take up more space overall--that is what the settlers really mean by 'natural growth'-that type of issue is not a sticking point in Israel. As anyone who goes to the West Bank knows, the settlements are incredibly problemmatic both to a future Palestine, to current Palestinian ability to live in some semblance of dignity and I believe, to Israel's own future since they reinforce lawlessness and a more rigid parochialism than does, say, tel Aviv and a more vibrant, modern Israel.
I thought it was interesting that you didn't include a link to the poll results in your initial post, Jo-Ann. As I noted in my comment on that post, the Ynet article describing the poll contains this passage:
A majority of 53% said Israel should not agree to evacuate all settlements, even if a peace agreement between Israel and the Palestinians depended on it, while 41% said they support evacuation.
I don't know if you chose to omit this question from your account of the poll, or just overlooked it, But the title of your previous post is blatantly false.
June 5, 2009 12:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
Sorry, it appears I was looking at the wrong poll. The Ynet article I read was a Thursday article describing a monthly Peace Index poll.
June 5, 2009 12:50 PM | Reply | Permalink
Just a quick comment to let you know how boring all of this is now. This whole predicament has been dragging on way, way too long. Thirty years or more of this nonsense is too much.
Settlements, settlers, bulldozers, murder, killing, attacks, suicide bombers, screaming, hatred, hate-filled rhetoric, religious war, implacable radicals on all sides ...
A lot of Americans are sick of hearing about it - have tuned it out. We are sick of being held accountable for all this fighting. Both sides suck.
Wrap it up, please, and double quick. Draw a border, make a deal, and cut the crap.
June 5, 2009 12:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
I think you draw us in a good direction with this, really. We don't want to be targeted any more for your insane religio blood feud.
Work it out. End it. Do it!
June 5, 2009 3:14 PM | Reply | Permalink
Are you Jewish and do you live in Palm Beach County?
If your answer is "No," then, no one of importance cares what you think.
June 5, 2009 10:28 PM | Reply | Permalink
A US president HINTS that the US wants Israel to live up to its committments and look what happens
McClatchy
June 5, 2009 5:06 PM | Reply | Permalink
Center-right?
Chutzpah
June 5, 2009 5:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
RE: "There is minimal support for the settlement project overall in Israel..."
BUT ALSO SEE - "Max Blumenthal: Feeling the Hate In Jerusalem on Eve of Obama's Cairo Address"
(EXCERPT) Max Blumenthal writes: On the eve of President Barack Obama’s address to the Muslim world from Cairo, Egypt, I stepped out onto the streets of Jerusalem with my friend Joseph Dana to interview young Israelis and American Jews about their reaction to the speech. We encountered rowdy groups of beer sodden twenty-somethings, many from the United States, and all eager to vent their visceral, even violent hatred of Barack Obama and his policies towards Israel. Usually I offer a brief commentary on my video reports, but this one requires no comment at all. Quite simply, it contains some of the most shocking footage I have ever filmed. Watch it and see if you agree. (Warning: this video contains profanity and material offensive to just about anyone.)
VIDEO - http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2009/06/max-blumenthal-feeling-the-hate-in-jerusalem-on-eve-of-obamas-cairo-address.html
June 5, 2009 9:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
There is minimal support for the settlement project overall in Israel and few Israelis, outside of the Orthodox and Ultra-Orthodox even travel to the settlements or encounter them except when on army duty to protect the settlers, something many soldiers resent.
That is spin based on describing the "settlement project" as a fundamentalist fanatic fringe project. This is false. The settlement project was planned and executed by the Israeli government, guided by mainstream politicians including Alon, Peres, and Rabin, and enjoyed the active support of all state agencies.
When one considers the settlement project in its totality, not just the freaks of Tapuach, and when one conducts scientific polls with precise questions, it becomes clear that a majority of Jews in Israel consistently reject a two states solution based on rolling back the settlement projects in any degree compatible with a viable Palestinian state.
see
http://jewssansfrontieres.blogspot.com/2009/01/jewish-israeli-public-supports-two.html
June 7, 2009 7:06 AM | Reply | Permalink