The Cairo Speech

I don't think I could improve upon M.J. Rosenberg's summary of what the meaning of the Obama speech would be to the Mid East. Clearly it was directed at that audience and its reception (except perhaps in the Likud and other expansionist parties in Israel) was very good. What struck me was how a similar speech might be addressed to an American audience, perhaps at one of the Think Tanks that is at the heart of the American Military Industrial Complex. This is a speech that Americans may not be ready for, but some time in the next three years, Obama should make it.
Obama seeks a new beginning with the Arab World. Part of that is the acknowledgement of what can only be described as the Imperial history of American intervention in the Arab world. There are hints in the Cairo speech that he understands this legacy.
The relationship between Islam and the West includes centuries of co-existence and cooperation, but also conflict and religious wars. More recently, tension has been fed by colonialism that denied rights and opportunities to many Muslims, and a Cold War in which Muslim-majority countries were too often treated as proxies without regard to their own aspirations...
Let me also address the issue of Iraq. Unlike Afghanistan, Iraq was a war of choice that provoked strong differences in my country and around the world. Although I believe that the Iraqi people are ultimately better off without the tyranny of Saddam Hussein, I also believe that events in Iraq have reminded America of the need to use diplomacy and build international consensus to resolve our problems whenever possible. Indeed, we can recall the words of Thomas Jefferson, who said: "I hope that our wisdom will grow with our power, and teach us that the less we use our power the greater it will be."...
For many years, Iran has defined itself in part by its opposition to my country, and there is indeed a tumultuous history between us. In the middle of the Cold War, the United States played a role in the overthrow of a democratically-elected Iranian government. Since the Islamic Revolution, Iran has played a role in acts of hostage-taking and violence against U.S. troops and civilians. This history is well known. Rather than remain trapped in the past, I have made it clear to Iran's leaders and people that my country is prepared to move forward. The question, now, is not what Iran is against, but rather what future it wants to build.
The question is also what kind kind of future America wants to build. Do we want to continue with a future in which the military consumes more than 50% of our discretionary budget? Do we want to continue in a world in which we spend more than all of our commercial rivals combined on Defense (chart below), while they spend on health care, infrastructure and education? I have written extensively on "The Cost of Empire" and many of us have noted Alan Greenspan's unusual candor when he noted that the invasion of Iraq "was all about oil". But do we really believe that if we were not occupying Arab lands they wouldn't sell their oil to us?

It is one thing for the President to state that "America is not the crude stereotype of a self-interested empire", but it is quite another matter to prove it by reining in the military industrial complex that has ruled Washington budgets since 1950. 57 years ago, President Eisenhower spoke to the American Society of Newspaper Editors. His words are just as true today as then.
Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed.This world in arms is not spending money alone. It is spending the sweat of its laborers, the genius of its scientists, the hopes of its children. The cost of one modern heavy bomber is this: a modern brick school in more than 30 cities. It is two electric power plants, each serving a town of 60,000 population. It is two fine, fully equipped hospitals.
Bill Clinton, President in a relative time of peace, was unable to cut military spending. The greatest lost opportunity for President Obama would be to complete his term of office without having dealt with the monster of the military industrial complex that has haunted our politics for 60 years




















June 4, 2009 3:04 PM | Reply | Permalink
The only "shit" published on this site is signed "ordinary."
June 4, 2009 3:09 PM | Reply | Permalink
Ordinary said:
Someone who sees this site as you do makes me wonder why you constantly travel all over it like a tumbleweed. Is frequenting this site as you do penance for something you did?
June 4, 2009 3:34 PM | Reply | Permalink
mythbuster;
If you think my analysis of Israeli politics is wrong, tell me what is right. If you think my analysis is right, point me to threads where that reality is acknowledged (I admit there are a few, a very few posters who are willing to face reality)
JohnW1141;
That you would ask such a question says a great deal about you. Why would anyone take the trouble to speak to his opponents when preaching to the quire is so much easier, so much more satisfying?
Since, for liberals, your own society is your enemy while its enemies are your friends, things get a bit complicated.
June 4, 2009 3:43 PM | Reply | Permalink
ordinary,
share we with me the fruit of your labors here, identify those you have converted to your way of thinking.
June 4, 2009 3:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
No one has acknowledged "conversion" but I think a few have become more careful, more aware that there are other, legitimate ways of analyzing our current reality.
And, of course, I occasionally learn something, find something which bears investigation, errors in my thoughts and arguments. For example, I never would have thought to seriously investigate Benny Morris had I not seen him challenged here.
That's the most one can expect. I'm not disappointed.
June 4, 2009 4:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
preaching to the quire
English is not your first language, is it.
This explains why your contributions have a "tone" similiar to that found on Israeli media talkbacks and your content could be taken straight from some lame-ass HASBARA FOR DUMMIES operation conceived by the Israeli Foreign Ministry.
June 4, 2009 11:27 PM | Reply | Permalink
Should have been "choir". But you'd never believe it was a simple error, would you?
June 5, 2009 9:31 AM | Reply | Permalink
More like litter blowing in the wind.
June 4, 2009 4:55 PM | Reply | Permalink
I totally agree. Its because we spend so much money on military might that we get in trouble many times around the world. We seem to be still arming for WWII island hopping and D-Day type invasions.
We went to Korea because we could. We went to Vietnam because we could. We went to Panama because we could. We went to Desert Storm because we could. We went to Iraq because we could.
As long as we keep spending the money we do on the military/industrial complex and getting the weapons and capability that money buys
there are going to be people who want to use those weapons adn that capability.
Remember what Madaleine Albright said to Colin Powell; "What's the use of having this superb military if we aren't going to use it?"
June 4, 2009 3:45 PM | Reply | Permalink
Worse still, unless we continually engage in wars, all of those armaments will not need to be replaced, and that means billions of dollars that will not go into the bank accounts of the arms merchants. People kill for less. That is what worries me.
June 4, 2009 8:43 PM | Reply | Permalink
Its because we spend so much money on military might that we get in trouble many times around the world.
when you go to a theater to see a dramatic play and you see a shiny gun hanging on the stage wall behind the actors, you kinda of know that the gun will at some point be used. same with our military. they have all this shiny hardware. you know it's gonna be used.
June 5, 2009 9:42 AM | Reply | Permalink
Tis true, tis true. As I like to say, let's retreat to our borders and let the rest of the world fight it out amongst themselves.
June 4, 2009 4:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
You, of all people, can't be serious about that.
It would be so nice to have other people do our fighting for us, but the last time we successfully tried that was WWII - it's run-up and our European strategy prior to the D-Day.
June 4, 2009 4:22 PM | Reply | Permalink
ordinary,
speaking of D-Day, Saturday is the 65th anniversary of that event.
June 4, 2009 5:39 PM | Reply | Permalink
“European countries were colonial masters of several Muslim lands, and the psychological aspects of that relationship have lived on and on. It's difficult for the Belgians, the Danes, the French -- it's difficult for them to believe that these former colonies have a religion that is of consequence. They get a kick out of insulting them.”
Sayyid Syeed
June 4, 2009 5:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
I wonder if you are as generous when confronting Muslim anti-semitism. Or perhaps you would rather see it characterized as anti-judaism. I hope, when answering, you will be honest enough to face the issue and not retreat to the "people of the book" horseshit.
June 4, 2009 9:55 PM | Reply | Permalink
ordinary,
you can create shit where it doesn't exist, as you did just now replying to chucktrotter's post.
June 5, 2009 8:06 AM | Reply | Permalink
The parallel is exact. Conquest and loss have psychological consequences for everyone.
June 5, 2009 9:34 AM | Reply | Permalink
you point out arab anti-semitism. how about also pointing out israeli jewish hatred toward the arabs? it's there big time in israel with the progroms and 'death to arabs' chants, etc.
i'm always amazed by people so readily point out anti-semitism when, in fact, those that do so harbor much unacknowledged hatred themselves. abe foxman is a good psychological study for this point.
Max Blumenthal: Feeling the Hate In Jerusalem on Eve of Obama's Cairo Address
nothing will change until both sides acknowledge their own hatred of each other. both sides are looking in the mirror. the blood they see on the others hands is the reflection of their own.
June 5, 2009 9:52 AM | Reply | Permalink
You're right about the mutual hatred...but you completely distort my position. It's the Left - you - which has far too often denied that reality, focusing only on Jewish attitudes and supposed shortcomings.
I've ALWAYS said that the two societies were too different to allow them to live in peace, that there was NEVER any chance for peaceful coexistance. That's why a Jewish state is necessary. Jews have never, and will never have, a fair shake under Arab rule.
So we will either have many Arab states and one Jewish state or one more Arab state and no Jewish states. That's the reality. Either way there has been, and will be, lots and lots of suffering.
June 5, 2009 11:38 AM | Reply | Permalink
in the usa all that is heard is about arab violence and hatred. the arabs are the new niggers, don't you know. when it comes to jewish violence and hatred it is swept under the rug, justified, and rationalized by the media and congress. americans see the crazies in the arab side but the crazies in israel are protected in our discourse in the usa. but that is about to change.
it's not about being left or right. it's about being right or wrong. if the shoe were on the other foot and the arabs had been oppressing the jews as the jews have been oppressing the arabs in palestine, i would be speaking out against the arabs.
i'm more hopeful than you are about co-existence. the trajectory of history is for all walls between people to eventually come down. full stop.
June 5, 2009 1:27 PM | Reply | Permalink
June 5, 2009 1:40 PM | Reply | Permalink
Correction that should be
"I can't read the trajectory of history"
June 5, 2009 1:43 PM | Reply | Permalink
look at all the european wars throughout the centuries. now they have formed a union.
look at south africa.
look at northern ireland.
more is coming.
get out of the way. you can't stop it.
June 5, 2009 2:01 PM | Reply | Permalink
I also see a definite bias in the way you seek to apply your vision;
the jewish state of israel will be converted into a secular state consisting of an Arab majority and a jewish minority...but nothing will be done about the surrounding arab, non-secular, violently intolerant states.
Who do you think you're fooling with such garbage?
June 5, 2009 1:50 PM | Reply | Permalink
being a jew, being an arab, being a christian are just concepts in the mind. because of attachment to those concept, suffering is perpetuated in the world. a human being is more than beliefs. you might think i'm just spouting goobledygook. that's ok. i know what i see.
June 5, 2009 2:10 PM | Reply | Permalink
You said you would speak out if Arabs had been oppressing Jews as Jews have been oppressing Arabs. I called bullshit. You didn't reply.
You said you could read the trajectory of history. I called bullshit. You replied by pointing the successes while ignoring failures...and more important, costs. Those who were killed, maimed, dispossessed are not likely to look kindly upon your project of homoginization.
I pointed out that you sought to destroy the jewish state while leaving all arab states whole. You replied with utter crap, worthless utopian generalizations which are just a smokescreen, a disguise for your obvious anti-semitism.
I've given you a chance of honest discourse, honest debate. Clearly, you're incapable of it.
June 5, 2009 2:31 PM | Reply | Permalink
i can understand where you are coming from. you seem to not understand where i'm coming from. time to stop.
June 5, 2009 2:47 PM | Reply | Permalink
Blue Pearl,
in order to converse with ordinary I suggest you get a copy of his 'Rules and Regulations for Conversing with Ordinary', written by Ordinary.
Rule #1; First, you must speak of how Jews suffered and how evil the Arabs are in order to establish your bona fides. Then you may continue with your comment.
Rule #2; Never, ever, show bias toward evenhandedness.
Rule #3; Remember, Hamas bad, settlements good.
June 5, 2009 4:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
I never thought much of you. I think even less now.
Jews and Arabs are fighting a war.
They've been fighting for over a hundred years.
The rights and wrongs can't ever be sorted out.
It's far better to look at it as a fight for a piece of land to which both sides have good claims.
The cultures of the two sides are incompatible. They can't live together in peace.
That's it.
That's what I've always said. That's what Zhabotinsky said, and Ben Gurion, and Hertzl, and Benny Morris.
So take your lies and bullshit about me and shove it.
June 5, 2009 5:59 PM | Reply | Permalink
You decided, in your idiotic way, to be cute and call me "tumbleweed", because I posted to quite a few threads in the last few days.
How do you know that? Have you been following me around? Or is it that you peruse as many or more sites than I do? I don't count the sites you visit, so why is it your business to count the number I visit?
You criticize me for posting to a site which is host to large numbers of people who I clearly despise. Why do I do it, you ask? Have I made any conversions?
If I thought you were powerless, that you had no influence on Unites States policy, that people thought your opinions to be worthless, I wouldn't be here. But that isn't the case. So I try to counter, in my own small way. Most of you are absolutely immune to rational argument...but one never knows. A person here, a small argument there, a previously undisclosed fact, an unidentified and casual reader.
Let's consider your list of rules
#1. Have Jews suffered at the hands of Arabs? Were the ancient Jewish communities of the Arab world ethnicly cleansed between 1920 and 1950 as a result of Jewish immigration to Palestine? What's your position on that? Do you have the guts to respond honestly?
#2. What's your idea of evenhandedness in this conflict? Do you support the idea of dismantling the Jewish state while leaving the surrounding Arab states whole? Is that your idea of evenhandedness? Do you have the guts to answer honestly?
#3. In a war to the death isn't "Hamas bad, settlements good" correct for the Jews while the opposite is true for the Arabs?
Can you answer any of these without slimy obfuscations, "reframing", delusional denials, or ad-hominems? I doubt it. I think there's an excellent chance you will simply not answer.
June 5, 2009 6:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
ordinary,
many people see today's main stream media as bending so far backwards to show the right wing that they're objective that the back of thier heads touch the floor.
If a new Republican scandal is uncovered the media will report the scandal but also add some Democrat scandal of the past. The reverse isn't true with a Democrat scandal, that and that alone gets reported.
You seem to feel that posters here, when being critical of some aspect regarding Israel, should follow the model of the media and criticize the other side too.
If a poster reported on a new settlement being opened today you would attack them if they didn't also refer to Palestinian rockets being fired into Israeli neighborhoods or suicide bombers attacking in Tel Aviv.
As to your question:
I doubt you would see any answer as honest if it didn't adhere 100% to your viewpoint on the Israeli/Palestinian issue.
June 6, 2009 11:17 AM | Reply | Permalink
You responded with an evasion and a mild ad hominem.
TPM Cafe is part of the media. The Guardian is part of the media. So are Al Ahram, Al Jazeera, Ha'aretz, and many others which are certainly not right wing or even-handed. Those who complain about "the media", and there are many such on both Left and Right, are lazy, stupid, spoiled brats, intolerant, or all of the above.
Between 1920 and 1950 the Arabs drove out 800,000 Jews and eradicated communities that had been in place in their midst for 2500 years, a thousand years longer than the Muslims. They were the first to use deadly violence in the conflict. For example, in 1920 in Jerusalem and in 1941 in Iraq (the Farhud). This was at a time when Israel did not exist and Jews had no army and practically no weapons. The Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, leader of the Palestinians during the '30s and '40s, was an actual Nazi who traveled to Berlin to try to persuade Hitler to extend the final solution to the Arab world. Trying to pretend that these events did not have a tremendous impact on the nature of the conflict, that they can be equated with today's Palestinian rockets or suicide bombers is less than honest, less than serious (to be very, very charitable).
My view of the conflict is that it has nothing to do with right and wrong. That it is a zero sum survival "game" in which either the Jews will win and a there will be one Jewish state in the world, or the Palestinians will win and there will be no Jewish state. I see no possibility of compromise, of coexistance.
Now. Would you like to try again to answer those 3 questions I posed?
June 6, 2009 10:24 PM | Reply | Permalink