A Truly Glorious Monday
I was just reading the rightist blogs on the President's triumph at Notre Dame.
These are really the worst of time for the bad guys. And it is critically important that we enjoy their misery because it may not last forever. (On the other hand, it might).
Who among us expected it? Frankly, I never thought we would see a liberal Democratic President again. I thought that LBJ was destined to be the last and that we were to be saddled with either Republicans or DLC Democrats in the White House forever. In fact, it was so bad that I was okay with DLC Dems. At least, they are Democrats and not out-and-out fascists.
But last year we got Obama.
So don't get depressed for a minute reading purist lefties complaining that Obama has flipped on torture or taxes or anything else. He hasn't. But even if he had, look at the big picture. The best place to find it is not at your favorite left-liberal blog but at Free Republic, Fox, Glenn Beck, O'Reilly, Commentary, and all the other bastions of the far right.
These guys are in agony. They are living their worst nightmare.
Not only is a liberal Democrat in the White House, but he's the reincarnation of FDR. He's politically deft. He's popular. He has a beautiful family. He has the supreme confidence of a JFK and the political skills of Clinton but without the character flaws. And, like FDR, and LBJ, he intends to transform America.
On top of that, he's black. Racism, the right's best weapon for a hundred years,has been laid low. And without that, they have absolutely nothing.
Think of it like this. How would you feel today if you had woken up today to the 119th morning of the Giuliani-Cantor administration? Well, that is what Obama-Biden is for the right only worse.
Can you imagine? Their America is gone and it's been replaced (in their minds) by the America of a black McGovern with Hillary as Secretary of State. The pain, the agony, the shame. And it's only just begun.
Happy Monday. It's morning in America, kids. Enjoy it.




















Everything is perspective. You just cheered me up. Thanks MJ.
May 18, 2009 9:26 AM | Reply | Permalink
And for those who just cannot be happy with what we have in Obama, no matter what he does, go here:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/andy-borowitz/obama-braces-self-for-wra_b_204476.html
May 18, 2009 9:32 AM | Reply | Permalink
Is the Right trying to soopt the Left to develop some kind of anti-Obama sense from our disagreements in the link provided? We may disagree, but no one suggests anyone else is available right now who can do better. We disagree, but remain united. That's why we are the USA. The Reich does not grasp that concept.
Oh, and we don't need no stinkin' pajamas, although some are more comfortable in them then not.
Question, do bloggers on the Right wear pajamas and live in their parents basement ... also.
May 18, 2009 12:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
I think (hope) I agree with you. I have no problem with legitimate criticism of Obama's first 110 days, but there is an awful lot of whiny naivete around here--"why isn't everything fixed already?"
Instant gratification addicts with no concept of how government works. There are three branches, all of which have a say. Obama is not a benevolent dictator. Things take time. I am in an increasing minority here who couldn't be happier with how things are going these days. I don't even mind paying my taxes anymore.
Right wing bloggers are much better dressed and blog from their cubicles at work.
May 18, 2009 12:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
MJ: You might have added, "And the only thing they have to cheer is fear itself."
Hence: The Cheney Creature's appearances on Fox Noise, Meet the Depressed, and This Weak (Group).
May 18, 2009 9:51 AM | Reply | Permalink
We loved Clinton, too (pre character flaws). Yet, he triangulated--moved to the right and adopted the entire right-wing agenda. We were then "blessed" with NAFTA, removal of Glass-Steigle(sp?), DADT, and a right wing majority in both houses of congress. Gee, is this what we can look forward to with Obama? He has started with adopting the Bush torture policy, the tribunals at Guantanamo (of course, with the HOPEful tweaking), withholding the torture photos despite two court orders to release them, and the bank bailouts, to mention only a few of his UNHOPEful changes. He is a reincarnation of 1937 FDR who caved to pressure and cut back on his stimulus spending and allowed the return of the Depression. However, Obama is doing the latter much sooner--why waste time? After 8 years of being beaten down by Bush & Co., I cannot accept a Bush Light. I believed that his being the first black President would be the jewel in the crown for the democrats, but that is rapidly becoming a jewel without a crown and I am truly heart-broken.
May 18, 2009 10:14 AM | Reply | Permalink
Good Lord.
May 18, 2009 10:23 AM | Reply | Permalink
Sorry, KateO. I guess you'd rather wait until every major domestic policy issue goes down the drain before you take a stand. What hasn't Obama backed away from? What has he done thus far that his supporters aren't crying foul about? When you can set out all the wonderful things Obama has done regarding Guantanamo, the tribunals, Bagram, the torture photos, investigating the Bush administration war crimes, the financial debacle and the bailouts, Don't Ask Don't Tell, then I will accept a "Good Lord". Until then, I have to say, DAMN!
May 18, 2009 11:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
Democratic, yes. Liberal? Not so much.
May 18, 2009 10:23 AM | Reply | Permalink
Obama's not a liberal? Wait until after the health care battle is over. After that we'll find out. Right now everything else is being sacrificed to gain the strength to win that one.
He's right to do so, too. FDR was trying to pass national health care when he passed Social Security, and Truman ran on national health care in 1948. That's three generations ago. It's time for national health care. If the rest of the liberal agenda has to be put on hold until that battle is finally won, its more than worth it.
Obama is gathering strength for the health care battle and he has to sacrifice other important battles right now to do it. If he wins health care, his political strength increases after and we'll see how liberal he really is. If he loses on health care then the rest of the liberal positions aren't going anywhere anyway.
May 18, 2009 10:41 AM | Reply | Permalink
Keep tellin yourself that Richard. Let's discuss it after we see the results or lack thereof later this year.
Obama is the penultimate DLC Demcrat. Doesn't mean he's evil, but he is at best a moderate, pro-corporate Democrat. Liberal? It simply is not an accurate label for the President unless by liberal one means "not a right wing Republican." On a handful of items he is liberal, but that's all.
May 18, 2009 11:43 AM | Reply | Permalink
If we do not get Sinlge-Payer, which is conspicuously absent from debates where it matters, on Capitol Hill, then Obama is no liberal. He's better then the alternative, there can be no doubt, but let's not delude ourselves and declare him liberal. As elsewhere noted, that suggests we take the Faux News definition of liberal, anything less then Extreme Right.
May 18, 2009 12:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
If by "liberal" you mean single-minded ideologue who demands perfection out of a political system designed to encourage compromise, then Obama is no liberal. He is a pragmatist. It's going to take a politically astute pragmatist to get national health care.
But he's a politically astute pragmatist with a liberal bent rather than a fascist one. Ideological purist liberals have another name. "Losers." Obama is a winner, and that's what we need right now.
I personally have two major issues that I feel very strongly about. The first is that the mathematical laws of insurance demand that everyone in the nation be included in a single insurance pool and receive coverage within the limits of the health system regardless of ability to pay. Without the enforcement of a single universal insurance pool, some people get left out of the health care finance system so that others can profit, and anyone who is not wealthy can slip into that group who gets left out.
The second issue is that America is a liberal democratic middle class nation, and the basis for America as a liberal nation is the U.S. Constitution, the single most liberal political document ever implemented. But the Constitution is waste paper unless the Rule of Law is enforced equally by the independent courts on every individual man, woman and hermaphrodite in America.
Right now the goal for Obama is to have universal health care in some form passed by October. To achieve that goal may mean delaying the enforcement of the Rule of Law on the Republican fascists for the torture they implemented as government policy and their other crimes. So be it. At the moment, health care is the greater priority.
There is no question that single payer is the only truly efficient national health care finance system. Pragmatically, however, we can't get there from here and get universal health care passed. If it doesn't pass this year it is dead for another decade as happened kn 1993.
But if it passes this year, even imperfectly, it cannot politically be repealed. It can only be improved. Private insurance has two major flaws. it is profit-oriented rather than health outcomes oriented, and it is immensely inefficient compared to the low administrative costs of a universal system.
Private insurance is geared towards making a profit, not towards improving health care as a basic goal. Between profit and health outcomes, health care outcomes will always be sacrificed to achieve profit outcomes. Government financed health care is the opposite. Its goal is to improve health outcomes. That is why the conservatives are fighting the public health care option so hard. The insurance companies simply cannot compete on a fair basis. Their inherent costs for non-health care oriented things are way too high.
The health care system overall will have to move towards single payer once an overall system exists. America is no longer a wealthy enough nation to support gold-plated private insurance policies, a ridiculously over funded military that fails to protect the nation, and the overly expensive and failed war on drugs.
But first, right now the roadblocks that have prevented adoption of universal health care for three generations are at the lowest level in my lifetime. That advantage MUST be taken to pass a universal system - NOW. At whatever short-term sacrifice of other essentials.
That's my analysis of the situation, and from what I can tell of the Obama administration policies, they are acting as though that's their conclusion also.
I love it that the conservatives have at last gotten their comeuppance. It's about time. And the time is also ripe to get universal health care passed for exactly that reason. Liberal purists will simply fail again. Obama has a shot at success.
May 18, 2009 1:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
Richard,
to me, Obama has been disappointing in how he's handling the Bush/Cheney "war on terror" and all of its aspects. The latest is his refusal to release pictures of interrogations which were ordered released by a Court as a result of a FOIA lawsuit.
The NY Times recently wrote:
Obama "has backtracked, in substantial if often nuanced ways, from the approach to national security that he preached as a candidate"
From Liberal Glenn Greenwald to Conservative Andrew Sullivan and many in between, Obama is being criticized for his continuation of Bush/Cheney ways and means in anything relating to terror/terrorists.
Much of my enthusiam for Obama is in retrograde.
May 18, 2009 6:19 PM | Reply | Permalink
I can understand why your enthusiasm for Obama is in retrograde. McCain/Palin would have been Soooo much better.
That said, the criticism of Obama is correct and needs to be there. He'll do what the pressure is on him to do. AFTER he gets universal health care of some kind passed and implementation started, I will be right there along with the other critics keeping his feet to the fire. But there is a certain realism to governing that is not there when candidates are making promises.
And Obama has only been in office four months. How much can he reverse after Rove/Cheney and company have had eight years to screw stuff up? And sometimes, who knows? They might have even gotten a few things right.
Effective Presidents don't do very much by direct fiat. Instead they prepare a vision of change and a goal, then set the process of change going. That takes time, and a lot of trial and error.
Down in the trenches, the workers do pretty much what they were doing before the new President arrived until the process of change gets to their level. It takes a good deal of time for that to happen because of all the coordination that has to occur at higher levels first.
That probably explains the DoJ doing things the Bush way. The changes simply haven't gotten down to the actual attorneys who are preparing and presenting briefs yet. Every big organization works that why, and the bigger it is, the slower changes can be made. There is no bigger organization that the US Federal government.
The only way to make massive changes quickly is to create a new agency, something that FDR did a number of times. But now that government is so much larger, there is little room for new agencies. Besides, a new agency requires Congressional action and funding, which is itself very slow. It is also not easily controlled by anyone, the President, Congressional leaders, or anyone else.
So I am delighted that Obama has promised to make the single most important change in the federal government - bring universal national health care financing into existence. I expect to have to wait on a lot of the rest of it to change.
At least Obama knows about this and is doing it right. Bush simply looked at the problems, threw up his hands and either handed it off to Cheney or Rove or he went on vacation and cut brush. That's the mechanism the conservatives rail against when they complain about civil servants sabotaging the changes they want to make. But those conservatives come from much smaller organizations and don't understand the strengths and limitations of very large ones, especially the federal government. Worse, they have no respect for the government and don't bother to learn how to function with it.
That's why most businesspersons-turned-politicians fail in what they try to get government to do. Even when they do learn, adapt and succeed it takes quite a while.
May 19, 2009 12:12 AM | Reply | Permalink
Richard said:
Richard, that's beneath you.
May 19, 2009 9:00 AM | Reply | Permalink
exactly right
May 18, 2009 10:01 PM | Reply | Permalink
Richard, Obama is already caving in to the insurance and PharmA groups. Read what Robert Reich has to say on the subject. Unfortunately, our much admired candidate is showing that he can be cool, but he is easily pressured and easily led by the people he has brought into his administration and by the generals. It's one thing to "listen to the generals on the ground", but another to cave in completely. It's one thing to say, "I will be making the final decisions" as president, but another to cave in to Geithner, Summers, or Emanuel. However, I will give you the benefit of the doubt--we'll see what happens if health care "reform" comes to pass. If we get anything close to single payer, I will bow to your polysci acumen.
May 19, 2009 12:31 PM | Reply | Permalink
What does that put me in mind of?
Happy days.
May 18, 2009 10:42 AM | Reply | Permalink
I think it speaks volumes that you offer Tammany Hall as an example. No thanks.
May 18, 2009 11:40 AM | Reply | Permalink
Good post. I really hadn't connected all the positives. I've recognized most of them, but I never put them together this way.
For one example, my best guess regarding Cheney's motivations for his self-destructive round of public support for his torture initiatives were his own fears of being caught in the inevitable investigations and repercussions. I still think so, but this post suggests that Cheney might also be reacting to the general conservative malaise as they watch their carefully built power edifice collapse almost overnight as conservatism's internal contradictions have reached a tipping point.
I'd feel sorry for the conservatives, but I don't bother to feel sorry for snakes and other cold-blooded reptiles, and they rank above American conservatives as more deserving of sympathy. The conservatives will be back, of course, when the inheritors of superwealth regroup and find new ways of attacking American middle class democracy. Only a big increase in the inheritance taxes can protect American middle class democracy and inoculate it from the ideological political illness that is conservatism.
Thanks for starting my Monday morning off right.
May 18, 2009 10:31 AM | Reply | Permalink
see, i remember the right being in 'agony' with clinton. seething even. i just don't see the difference that you see, mj.
the way i see it, the only difference is that obama and the dems now seem to OWN the center (and that chunk to the right of center) that clinton first began to steal away from the right.
i wish i could see obama through your rosenberg colored glasses. i'd love for you to be right about obama being some sort of left-wing transformationalist. but the fear and/or noise on the right about him being the left-wing transformationalist you want him to be seems a bit more off the mark than the sobered view of him from the left (the view you so condescendingly dismiss as 'purist').
but only time will tell. still, obama has yet spent a scant amount of the capital he's accumulated. and the political capital market is extremely volatile. his savings (investments?) could evaporate before he spends them.
May 18, 2009 10:36 AM | Reply | Permalink
One big difference is that when Clinton won the Presidency the conservatives had been on the increase and saw it as stealing what was rightfully theirs. Obam's win was very different. The conservatives knew it was coming and were dispirited going into last fall's election. They are in the dumps now.
In 1992 Richard Mellon Scaife was funding attacks on Clinton and the attacks, crazy as they and their sources were, caught the tenor of the times. This time Bob Perry (Texas real estate multimillionaire, disreputable business man and funder of conservative causes) and others are funding the Swift Boater's and it's going nowhere, even among the conservatives.
May 18, 2009 10:52 AM | Reply | Permalink
i'm not sure if you were trying to dispute my point on clinton or concur with it.
i don't disagree. like i said, what clinton first began to steal, obama now owns. but the noise/fear on the right about how far left the administration is isn't really any different from the noise/fear the right used during clinton.
while the noise and fear is wrapped in ideological difference, the real contention is PARTISAN.
May 18, 2009 11:06 AM | Reply | Permalink
I'll buy that. The difference is that the public this time has pretty resoundingly rejected the conservative side of the issue. The noise is much the same out of the political players, but the outcome has a much better chance of coming out right.
That, in my opinion, is a big difference between the Clinton era and the Obama era - so far.
The wild card is, I think, the economy. Bush did absolutely nothing effective to head off the bank collapse and the economic crisis. That and Bush's other failures of governance went a long way towards electing Obama. Obama has done a great deal to ameliorate the economic problem. If it works for a longer term, then Obama will be golden for quite a while. But in any case, he appears to be placing all his bets on getting some form of universal health care passed by October while he remains in good graces with the public no matter what happens later.
I think that Obama is running a high-stakes gamble that Clinton never had a shot at in part because Bill was the winner of a three way Presidential race with no majority in 1992 and because the conservatives were still in the ascendancy and the economy still looked good back then.
But right now, things are substantially different from what faced Clinton. I see that as our real difference of opinion. You don't appear to see any big difference between the two periods. I do.
May 18, 2009 3:30 PM | Reply | Permalink
i'm a bit late in responding but anyway...
that is very wishful thinking. not sure what you mean by 'THE issue' but voters are only temporarily willing to let the dems have a go. while party ID trendlines favor dems and the republicans are digging their own hole ever further from the center, obama's success and the dems' gains are in keeping that center and the piece to the right of center that the republicans have taken for granted. this is the dems/obama sliding to the right, not the country marching over to the left (even though now would be an opportune moment for an actual left-wing transformationalist to begin leading that march).
and mj's point was that the noise on the right about obama was evidence that obama is the big difference. that obama is a true liberal and clinton was not. that obama represents a definitive break with the DLC centrism. but if obama is any more liberal than clinton it is only by shades. obama is a centrist just like clinton. obama advocates postpartisan centrism while clinton advocated third-way centrism. that is the only difference between the clinton 'era' and the obama 'era' - which brand of centrism they advocate.
and as obama knows, bush will be little more than a bad memory to those voters in the center and to the right of center very soon.
obama has fiddled around the edges and squandered his opportunity to address the fundamental dysfuntcions in the economy (because, again, he's a centrist and not a left-wing transformationalist as mj would have us believe). as my wife's company (one of the largest employers in the area) continues to cut hours and shed employees, the great deal that you say obama has done to ameliorate the economic problem is just not apparent to me. and economic indicators don't represent and sort of good news, just 'not as bad' news.
but that's all beside the point that i was making.
keep holding your breath. see how that turns out.
obama's real bet is that if he doesn't rock the boat and can keep bailing water at least as fast as it keeps coming in, he can hold on to those voters who are now so reluctant to call themselves republicans.
whatever form of healthcare 'reform' obama delivers it won't be anything that can be called 'universal healthcare' with a straight face.
our quibble isn't about the different state of play that obama finds himself compared to the state of play clinton faced. though to be honest i'm not really sure what you are disagreeing about. my point was only to question mj's conviction that obama is some sort of left-wing transformationalist (a 'real liberal') and his argument that the right-wing noise is all the evidence we need to see it.
my point was that obama is a centrist who has yet to spend any of his political capital on any ambitious, truly liberal policies. what liberal policies or approaches we've gotten have not required any real expenditures of obama's capital.
and even if we were to imagine that obama is saving that political capital to push through an ambitious, liberal universal healthcare program (he isn't) his political capital could evaporate before he can spend it.
my point is that obama is an incrementalist and a centrist. and contrary to mj's admonitions to pay them no mind, one need only look to the left to see it.*
mj has been blinded by looking into the shining sun of obama, and rendered deaf by listening to the right-wing noise machine. and he just wants everyone else to do the same.
*that said, if electing democrats is more important than getting public policy that is truly liberal and transformational, then that's a very different conversation.
May 20, 2009 9:50 AM | Reply | Permalink
Thank you for the detailed and careful post. You've given me a lot to think about.
As to where we differ, I think we differ on just how much Obama CAN do. Just because there are so many things desperately in need of being done after the destruction left by three decades of conservatives out to destroy America as a modern developed nation, and particularly after the rather strange mix of ignorance and corruption that has characterized the Bush administration over the last eight years.
I consider Obama quite limited in his freedom to act. If he tries to change a lot of things right now, he is just going to build up his opponents and they will shut him down. So from what I can see, everything is being focused on getting Health care passed this year while he is still "fresh" and while the atrocities of the Bush administration remain on voter's minds.
The problem is that the separation of powers in the Constitution gives a lot of power to Congress, but the public imagination gives the President monarchial power. He simply does not have it, as Clinton found out when he tried to pass the desperately needed health care plan.
So Obama is setting out his goals - mostly the ones he campaigned on - and handing the ball to Congress to do what he asked their way. That is his way of finessing the problem that Bill Clinton had with passing health care. Obama has to have the barons of the Congress committed strongly enough so that they cannot be bought off by the Lobbyists or absolutely nothing will happen (a win for the lobbyists.)
Obama also has so many plates in the air right now that the headline from Harry Reid is probably correct. He failed to focus on what he wanted Congress to do in closing down Gitmo. Congress went their own way, and the money was removed in order to give Obama a signal regarding who has the power to make things happen or to stop them. DADT is something that Obama could simply declare, but if he did, it would lead to other defeats as the Gays in the Military issue did for Bill Clinton.
From what I can see, it appears to me that Obama has laid out a lot of things he would like to see done, but the Congressional barons, the top flag officers, and the ranking individuals at the CIA all have veto powers. Not individually, but certainly groups of them do. So he is letting them win without bringing the full weight of the Presidency down on them. They each have constituencies they have to please, too. But for health care, Obama has Reid and Pelosi working to get it, and together they are weakening the biggest potential roadblocks.
Reid faces the same problem as Obama with the filibuster and the insane Republicans who refuse to govern but just want power. Pelosi has more leeway, but not a lot. Those three are marshalling the power to get health care, which is what I saw when the health care issue became a budget issue not subject to the filibuster. The most likely Blue Dog and moderate Republicans are being bought off or weakened politically. Bought off by giving them wins on issues before health care so that they can take those wins home to their constituents, and weakened by making it expensive to be out front in the fight against health care. Nothing that comes up before health care can be turned into a battle royal, since that would automatically strengthen Obama's opponents when health care gets to the Congress and the crunch time.
The last thing to remember is that the economy could and probably should have dived to Depression levels. That scared Paulson and Bernanke enough to make them do things by now they never would have done, and Obama stood on their shoulders to get the stimulus passed. That stimulus and the extra money that the Fed has been kicking into the economy have (temporarily?) saved our butts for right now. Unfortunately, it has also taken a lot of pressure off the voting public. They just see the amazing levels of debt it is taking and don't see the alternatives where we have so far missed the bullet.
Of all the threats to Obama's ability to get anything done, especially health care, I see that last one as the biggest. The result is that I don't think he has any ability right now to do anything except health care. Everything else is running on autopilot while Obama carefully avoids making himself a target.
That looks highly unliberal, but in fact it Obama can reverse three quarters of a century of getting nothing through and succeeds getting universal health care of some kind passed, he has an opportunity to show his true colors after that. I think he'll be in the position to actually demonstrate what a powerful President can do.
I also don't think I have ever seen another President who was as aware of all this since LBJ. LBJ had two major goals, Medicare and Civil Rights, and Westmoreland in Vietnam knew that. So he demanded a quarter million more troops. If LBJ had not given them to him, the conservatives would have shut him down, so he did it. I don't think that Carter had a clue regarding these Presidential dynamics. Clinton, for all his brilliance, walked into the buzz saw left by Bush 41 in Somalia and in gays in the military, so that by the time Health care came up he was badly weakened. Then he did not understand Congress and Health care got killed.
It's my impression that Obama is one of the finest strategic managers I have every observed, and I spent eight years studying corporate strategic management. I'm also 66 years old and have read the news as well as history in depth for all my adult life. I'm not a politician, but I know enough to look for power sources that you can use and power sources that can block you. So this is my best estimate as a distant observer regarding what is happening in Washington right now.
So I think our disagreement is based on what we each think that Obama can and should be doing right now. I really think he has to focus on health care to have a hope in Hell of getting it, and the result of that limitation is that he is going to look quite illiberal for now. Harry Reid, also, since Reid is the man who is most directly responsible for getting stuff through the Senate around the filibuster. Obama is going to be Harry's big guns in reserve when it comes to the crunch, and neither of them can waste their power before then. No matter who it disappoints right now.
May 20, 2009 8:10 PM | Reply | Permalink
Great post. I am enjoying it immensely I assure you.
Same as you, I have been waiting for this all my life.
May 18, 2009 10:41 AM | Reply | Permalink
Great post accept for the Guilani Cantor part, Obama and Biden are competent, Guilani and Cantor are not.
May 18, 2009 10:47 AM | Reply | Permalink
JohnRove,
Oh no. I never would suggest that those two are competent. I just picked those names becaause, of all the Repubs, those two are, in my opinion, among the most likely to produce projectile diarrhea.
May 18, 2009 10:58 AM | Reply | Permalink
Yeah, Guilani and Cantor in the same sentence with projectile diarrhea is exactly how it should be.
May 18, 2009 11:06 AM | Reply | Permalink
So far, Obama is a mirror image of the 1990s DLC-led democratic party.
He hasn't broken free of that mold. I am not sure he can and will instead be required to change what that means with regards to policy. He is far from an uber liberal at this point, though he may become among our most progressive presidents if he plays his cards right.
Not sure what Obama you are seeing right now, but he has been pretty conservative and pragmatic in his positions. Not all that different from Clinton, truth be told, but without some of the moral failings.
May 18, 2009 11:06 AM | Reply | Permalink
Yay!
May 18, 2009 11:39 AM | Reply | Permalink
"So don't get depressed for a minute reading purist lefties complaining that Obama has flipped on torture or taxes or anything else. He hasn't."
MJ,
Come back down to earth! This is the worst sort of up is downism I've seen on the Democratic side yet.
And by the way, do you really think had the courageous and much maligned for no real reason George McGovern been elected that he would have said that leaving 50,000 troops in Viet Nam indefnitely was an end to the war and that simultaneously escalating operations in Laos and Cambodia was bringing the conflict to an end? No, he would not have.
May 18, 2009 11:48 AM | Reply | Permalink
Even Lenin (despicable scumbag) had problems with leftwing infantilism.
May 18, 2009 11:53 AM | Reply | Permalink
Great post, MJ. My poor uneducated state went solidly for the Republican ticket as expected last fall, but at least that freed up some Dems to volunteer to help in Indiana :>)
It was fun to watch election returns on Fox by the way. Now it is somewhat amusing to check in and realize how totally devoid of substantial criticism they are. Agony indeed.
Clinton, who I believe was a good president, is simply a Southern Democrat. They are notoriously fiscally conservative. Obama has no allegiances of that magnitude. This gives him the opportunity to work out compromises. And you know what they say about a good compromise-- if you are doing it right everyone is mad at you.
I am under no delusions about the pace of withdrawal from Iraq. We have attached ourselves solidly to the place and it will be one thing to stop fighting the insurgents and another thing entirely to end our presence. We have been in South Korea longer than I have been alive and I am not exactly a spring chicken.
It warms my heart to watch this administration tackle so many of our intransigent problems. Nobody said it would be pretty.
May 18, 2009 12:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
"He hasn't. But even if he had, look at the big picture."
So Obama turning into Bush Co. Defender in Chief is just fine as long as Hannity and Co. find something imaginary to complain about.
Where the hell do you draw the line M.J.? You sound like the AIPAC shill you used to be, though I guess you're mostly just trying to get a reaction, like always.
To everybody who agrees with this silly post, you know you would be flipping out if McCain was elected and governed exactly as Obama has so far.
Geithner as Sec. Treasury, check
Kashkari keeping his job in charge of TARP, check
Overly distant withdrawal dates from Iraq, which are already being pushed back, check
Escalation in Afghanistan to support a thoroughly corrupt puppet government, and continued bombings of civilian crowds, check
Calling for an undivided Jerusalem, check
Blocking every single possible investigation into the horrors of the last 8 years, which troubled you greatly up until the moment Obama condoned them, check
Cults of personality are dangerous, and you people show just how fleeting principles can be in the face of tribalism.
May 18, 2009 12:57 PM | Reply | Permalink
Thanks MJ! You are a calm spot in a room full of exploding heads.
May 18, 2009 1:03 PM | Reply | Permalink
I like you MJ. I also like Grenn Greenwald, the purest purist leftie there is. And in this case I have to side with Greenwald & Co..
Why hasn't Obama flipped? Because you say so? To those who document his about-faces on extraordinary rendition and secrecy, your only response is, "no he hasn't"?
So some right-wingers are delusional, as they have always been. That is how they have always moved the center far rightward, by screaming that the dead center is left. I'm glad their adult diapers are in a wad, but it doesn't make them, uh, right. It just makes them right-wing.
Don't mean to darken your Mondays, everybody.
May 18, 2009 2:44 PM | Reply | Permalink
And the delusional left-wingers don't try to move the center left, by screaming that the dead center is right? Don't worry, you haven't darkened my day in the least.
May 18, 2009 2:59 PM | Reply | Permalink
It isn't delusional to expect a candidate to keep his fundamental promises. Obama is breaking them on any number of fronts and on things that are to come such as healthcare it isn't that it doesn't look promising, it looks like a disaster because he isn't standing for anything except the status quo and that, in case you don't recall, is what he ran against. Complaining that a bait and switch has taken place isn't delusional, it's necessary.
May 18, 2009 10:06 PM | Reply | Permalink
"Why hasn't Obama flipped? Because you say so? To those who document his about-faces on extraordinary rendition and secrecy, your only response is, "no he hasn't"?"
M.J.'s also saying, "even if he did, so what?"
Which is another way of saying, "So what?"
Morning in America, lol.
Now watch him spin the Yahu meeting, and downplay and under-analyze the forces surrounding Obama that made him capitulate.
And then Rahm the AIPAC bagman/IDF mechanic will be defended as being far more loyal to Obama than anything else.
May 18, 2009 3:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
Thanks for making my point about delusional left wingers.
May 18, 2009 3:14 PM | Reply | Permalink
Consider yourself divided and conquered.
What principles do you stand for? Are they the same ones you stood for 6 months ago?
What do you think about rule of law?
Hero worship is a powerful instinct, isn't it?
May 18, 2009 3:47 PM | Reply | Permalink
Do you stomp your feet or hold your breath when you are throwing a tantrum? Is there someone nearby who can hold you tight and tell you they love you?
May 18, 2009 4:01 PM | Reply | Permalink
KateO, you are amazing in the way you hurl insults, but you fall far short of presenting any substantial arguments or addressing any questions presented to you. I guess you just like getting your name mentioned in the blogs. THAT you can read, but you seem to have missed everything in print pertaining to the facts. Read, analyze, compare what you read to what Obama said throughout his campaign, then formulate an argument. That's how it's done. you don't really come across as a learned person simply by saying an opponent is having a tantrum. Face your opponent and present a cogent argument for your side. If you can't do that, then perhaps you'd be happy if someone simply did the following: KateO, KateO, KateO, KateO, KateO. Is that enough to satisfy you?
May 19, 2009 12:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
Bossy, aren't you?
May 19, 2009 12:50 PM | Reply | Permalink
I like it that Obama appears more interested in actually accomplishing something than scoring ideological points. One would think that we've had enough government by ideological purists after the last eight years. Call him a sell-out if you want, I think he is thoughtful, sensible, and responsible.
May 19, 2009 6:25 AM | Reply | Permalink
"Delusional left wingers," "Exploding heads," etc.
My reference point has long been the year that I spent in the Central Highlands of Vietnam.
Has anyone read what Bob Herbert has to say today?
There are alltogether too many glamour addicted ass-kissers around this precinct. The writing was clearly on the wall when the man announced that the reverend from Orange County would be giving the SPIRITUAL homily to start things off on inauguration day.
May 19, 2009 6:46 PM | Reply | Permalink