Dead Party Walking
While Rush Limbaugh crows over Specter's departure-"take McCain with you -- and his daughter"--he must realize that he now rules over a party that is getting dangerously close to representing only 20% of the American public. Frank Rich got it right this morning.
As The Economist recently certified, the G.O.P. is now officially in the throes of "Obama Derangement Syndrome." The same conservative gang that remained mum when George W. Bush praised Putin's "soul" and held hands with the Saudi ruler Abdullah are now condemning Obama for shaking hands with Hugo Chávez, "bowing" to Abdullah, relaxing Cuban policy and talking to hostile governments. Polls show overwhelming majorities favoring Obama's positions. But his critics have locked themselves in the padded cell of an alternative reality. Not long before The Wall Street Journal informed its readers that 81 percent of Americans liked Obama, Karl Rove wrote in its pages that "no president in the past 40 years has done more to polarize America so much, so quickly."Rich worries that soon we will not have two functioning parties. What the chart shows is that the new major party is "Independent". They vote with Obama now, but that could change in the future. If Karl Rove's idea of a functioning opposition is in danger, I'm smiling. Four years ago Rove crowed about the coming "permanent Republican ruling majority."
I guess that didn't work out so well.
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Republicans have nothing to offer that can compete with free money, free health care, theoretically reduced taxes, and a walking, talking, saint.
They will also have to resolve the fiscal conservatives with the social conservatives.
All in all, this is a valuable timeout, where conservatives of every stripe should encourage the left to do all it can. If something works, great. If it doesn't, we'll beat Obama over the head with it. Carry on.
May 3, 2009 12:36 PM | Reply | Permalink
shooter242: Do you wish we could privatize the Fire Department, or do you stop there?
May 3, 2009 1:39 PM | Reply | Permalink
Shooter wants a privatized police department. If you can't afford "police insurance," you just have to defend your own hearth and home (something lots of repubs love the concept of if they get to have tons of guns). Oh. But you can't be home, locked and loaded every minute -- And, Oh. How about those speeders on the roadways? Oh. And if your daughter gets mugged out on the street, she just has to give her police insurance info when she calls 911, or she'll just have to call daddy to take care of things.
Anything else would be socialism, right, Shooter?
May 3, 2009 5:03 PM | Reply | Permalink
One things for sure, scooter242, insanity is not the alternative Americans want to consider.
May 3, 2009 2:02 PM | Reply | Permalink
"Shooter" (undoubtedly a name chosen after a hasty one-handed read of a Michelle Malkin screed) is seen in a German-English dictionary, next to the word "scheisskopfheit".
May 3, 2009 5:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
There are conservatives, and there are poseurs who hide under Conservatism's flayed-alive mantle, to obfuscate that they came from the black fetid swamp of a bayou used as Sugarland's sump.
There is no such thing as a "Social Conservative"; it is a fiction, made up by right-wing activists who believe they are invested with a Divine Right to dictate morality. What did Mr. Conservative say?
Yet Scooter still pitches the snake-oil,from a stall alongside NeoConnivers,
out on the midway in front of:
The Big Three-Ring Circus Tent
of Republican Inclusiveness;
with a spiel that arrogantly disregards the self-evident:
The Republican Party Is
The Party Of Nothing For Everyone
May 3, 2009 6:09 PM | Reply | Permalink
(zing....!)
May 3, 2009 6:14 PM | Reply | Permalink
ba-boom (cue the cowbells--query:how the fuck do we present cowbell?)
May 3, 2009 7:05 PM | Reply | Permalink
No cowbell, but good for short quick fun: The JS-909 synthesizer.
May 3, 2009 7:34 PM | Reply | Permalink
oops, messed up the link.
May 3, 2009 10:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
{{{{{{cowbell}}}}}}
May 3, 2009 9:29 PM | Reply | Permalink
Well well. Non-sequiturs, overwrought dramatics, and barnyard noises. All systems normal. Heh.
May 3, 2009 9:45 PM | Reply | Permalink
you forgot what was the cause of my initial ravening, and it was NOT a non sequitur.
Let me help you chart the flow, pard'ner, since it seems you are afflicted with Acute Logic Deficit Disorder (ALDD):
- You used the phrase: "conservatives of every stripe"
- This is the non sequitur
- There are conservatives; and there are conservative poseurs, or contemporary conservatives, if you will.
- Right-side activists, by definition, cannot be conservatives
- Right-wing activists attempt to hide their true stripes by wearing the hide of conservatism.
Ahora, ¿entiendes, mi amigo?Activists support drastic change.
May 3, 2009 10:15 PM | Reply | Permalink
I think, perhaps, shooter was referring to his own comment.
May 3, 2009 10:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
shooter says:
shooter self describes his posts. heh heh heh
May 4, 2009 4:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
Gee, if I were as loyal a supporter of Obama and the congressional Dems as Taplin, I might be concerned about a graph showing a steeper decline in the last five months for the Democrats than Republicans. But then again Taplin "gets" Obama as the brilliant analyst Rosenberg puts it. Triumphalism before results IMHO.
May 3, 2009 12:40 PM | Reply | Permalink
In 2008 there was a major shift from independent to dem (atypical of the 5-year trend). The Decline in democratic identification seems to largely mirror the decline in independent identification leading up to the presidential election. The decline is likely true independents returning to their roots.
It also can't be emphasized enough that independents overwhelmingly support democratic candidates and policies at this point. A migration between democratic and independent ranks isn't nearly the negative for democrats it is for republicans.
The GOP crater is kind of unprecedented. I imagine they'll get many of their strays (newly independent) back if they ever stop being crazy. It's going to be a challenge to figure out what should trigger "worry" from the democratic side.
May 3, 2009 3:44 PM | Reply | Permalink
The ratio of D/M has been relatively constant at 1.5 over the past 5 months.
Also recall that Dems got a big bump in 2008.
The problem might be that despite "independent" growing strongly, Congressional representation remains Party oriented. Will 2010 brings non-Demo/Repo candidates into serious contention, or is this simply a matter of many more people going for "decline to state" status (in effect), and leaving the two Parties with their core constituents but being willing to vote partisan anyway?
May 3, 2009 4:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
The two changes are roughly identical, as a percentage of each, at around a 15% drop in the last 5 mos.
Both slopes are exaggerated and a bit out of proportion.
May 3, 2009 7:14 PM | Reply | Permalink
On proportion, I mean that instead of going from high to low, they go from low to lower. But the more important numbers, I'd say, are that comparing the 33% Dems to 22% Repubs says there are 50% more self-identified Democrats as of now.
May 3, 2009 7:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
Which was also true at 39/26! The ratio has not changed, but the Ds are losing members FASTER in absolute terms. I don't know how much of that is due to post-election disappointments. I imagine Nate Silver would have some good historical data on such things.
May 3, 2009 8:40 PM | Reply | Permalink
What this really shows is that the American electorate is finally moving away from a biploar polity. This should be viewed as a positive, because mapping political views to a linear scale produces a horribly distorted model.
Considering that Bush's approval rating was around 20% in November 2008, it looks as if the Republicans have just about hit their absolute base of the Party's Rank and Defiled.
The Washinton Post poll, offers some further insight however with a bit of digging. It breaks down Independents into leaning Dem/Rep/None. Adding the leaners to those identified with Reps/Dems produces the following totals:
Dems/Dem Leaners - 53%
Reps/Rep Leaners - 37%
Pure Independent - 10%
May 4, 2009 12:08 AM | Reply | Permalink
"the Party's Rank and Defiled."
Heh.
The stats happen to exactly mirror the 1.5 factor. Dem leaners are 50% more than Repo leaners, at 54/37. That pretty much says it's not just disaffected Repos going independent.
It could reflect disaffection with Congress which probably peaked over and just after the TARP business. I have not checked recently but Demos were recovering decently while Repos were still in the doghouse...
I seem to have lost track of my bookmark to some site which has good graphs on this, but here's a recent blog by Silver: http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2009/05/party-id-revisited.html
May 4, 2009 1:39 AM | Reply | Permalink
That these two items could appear in the same Newspaper might make a number of rational people laugh.
When the Bush/Cheney gang was inserted into the White House, Republicans also controlled the House and Senate and this caused the Republican party and its supporters to become almost orgasmic, there was jubilation and dancing in the street. It was a mini-Rapture and Republicans forecast blue skies forever under one party rule.
Why, Karl Rover himself created a plan for the permanent Republican majority.
Fast forward and now the Democrats have control, and all of a sudden One Party Rule which was the cat's whiskers to the Republicans in 2001 is now an omen for a visit by the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse.
May 3, 2009 12:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
Any mention of Karl the Math Rove makes me laugh.
May 4, 2009 4:55 AM | Reply | Permalink
I figure those independents have a hunch that neither party is thinking very hard about them. A party that can make a convincing case that it is passionate about the future of the American middleclass, formerly known as the American Dream, has a future.
May 3, 2009 12:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
Maybe someone needs to form one. A party that is just left of center. Right now we have the extreme right and not so extreme right.
C
May 3, 2009 1:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
the extreme right and not so extreme right
The two wings of the Republican party: The anti choice wing, and the pro choice wing.
Kucinich & Gravel in 2020!
May 3, 2009 7:08 PM | Reply | Permalink
Considering how willfully ignorant the electorate was for 8 years of Bush, I don't like for anyone to take a victory lap regarding things "not working out so well" for the Republicans. In a country in which the Republicans continue to do all they can to bash unions and hurt workers, the rising numbers of people self-identifying as independents is just weird.
May 3, 2009 2:05 PM | Reply | Permalink
Not necessarily. The electorate is getting younger, in a matter of speaking. And the young people I know (20s to 30s or so) do not really identify with any one particular political philosophy. It depends on the subject, for them.
I'm nearly 60, a baby boomer as it were and for me I'm very liberal on some things, middle of the road on others and conservative on even other things.
C
May 3, 2009 2:30 PM | Reply | Permalink
Well, have you noticed the Democrats passing EFCA? Nope, because we have so many corporatists (they call themselves centrists) in the caucus. So what is there to convince an independent that we are serious? Being a Democrat once was about bringing home the bacon to the middleclass. Then the middleclass figured we'd abandoned them to do too much for the poor. Now, we don't do anything for the poor but we still aren't serving the middleclass either. But, if you are a ginormous bank...
May 3, 2009 2:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'm not so sure that Democrats were ever identified as being for the middleclass; more for the downtrodden (which is the class that republicans disdain completely). The republicans have kept the lower middle class on their side with wedge issues, all the while screwing them royally.
In fact, Obama is the first person I have heard campaign steadfastly for the middleclass. If he can get TRUE Universal Health Care, the one group until now left out of this issue: the middleclass, the Democratic Party will have the loyalty it needs and deserves. If he can get college loan under control, the nopublicans will have nowhere to hide.
May 3, 2009 5:15 PM | Reply | Permalink
I am very scared that the fix is in on the healthcare bill and that all we're going to get is another bailout bill for big insurance and big pharma. These Blue Dogs including the self-professed DISloyal Democrat, Specter, don't give a fig about the middleclass and I don't think they have any intention of delivering anything but a kluge that is custom designed to provide maximum premiums and minimum care. I just see no indication whatever that the party is going to fight for the public on this at all. They want a score on the board so they'll deliver up a bill but I see no indication that they care if it covers the healthcare needs of people. I think it is going to get crammed down our throats before we have time to figure out just how badly we've been screwed.
May 3, 2009 6:01 PM | Reply | Permalink
I have the same concern as you do, especially after hearing Rahm's brother, Zeke Emmanuel (a doctor and advisor to Obama) tell what HE envisions:
Insurance for all, with the government giving insurance company stipends to cover high-cost patients! What a wasteful idea, but I agree. The fix is in.
I do think that once there is universal coverage (even by those blood-sucking insurance companies), single-payer will evolve as long as the republicans don't get back in power.
This is Obama's to win (or lose). The country clearly wants single-payer, but he neither ran on it, nor did he champion it once he won. In fact, a seat in the big summit was only reluctantly given to a single-payer representative. It is a huge disappointment, and we have to just keep shouting.
BTW, on some other blog (don't recall which one) someone is trying to get everyone to send "Get Well" Cards to Obama, with an inside message that the US health system is sick and it will take a single-payer, universal program to fix it.
I have mine stamped and will send it tomorrow; hey, everyone, this is EASY! Do it:
Barack Obama
The White House
1600 Pennsylvania Avenue, NW
Washington, DC 20500
May 3, 2009 6:22 PM | Reply | Permalink
Obama can only do so much. I don't know what it is going to take to get people mad enough to fight back because the problem is so deep in both parties that nothing short of a very focused reform crusade is going to shake things up. That is not Obama's style. And I don't see anyone out there to lead the charge. But I don't care if it's healthcare or the financial industry or whatever the middleclass is just getting rolled. I don't know what you do. It takes so much money to run for the Senate that they arrive there already acquired by their contributors. Maybe we ought to make them the House of Lords. It would do wonders for their egos and we could then make them powerless and find another legislative body to actually represent us.
May 3, 2009 6:31 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'm laughing in spite of myself at your comment about the House of Lords!
May 3, 2009 7:15 PM | Reply | Permalink
I certainly do not want single-payer.
My family has had Blue Cross since my grandfather's time.
I see no reason to be forced to switch to some totally untried government program, with some totally untried government agency to run it.
Besides, we just enacted major health care reform in my state of Massachusetts a few years ago, and it seems to be working well. Why throw out what took years to accomplish.
Here's my suggestion: Try single-payer in some states first, probably Blue states where it is most likely to be popular. Let's see if it works there before foisting it on the entire nation.
May 5, 2009 12:11 PM | Reply | Permalink
Four years ago Rove crowed about the coming "permanent Republican ruling majority."
I guess that didn't work out so well.
We Democrats would be well advised to remember that. Our current dominance may be seen as the beginning of a new era, or as the peak and beginning of decline. What we do in the next dew months and years will determine which of those becomes the story.
I'm (reasonably) happy at the current triumph, but let's not go nuts. There is lots of work to do; there are still substantial risks to the affection enjoyed by Obama and the Democrats; our work has really only begun.
May 3, 2009 5:08 PM | Reply | Permalink
The whole world is relieved to see Rinosaurs' extinction. And everyone loves Obama, but the Dem congress, not so much.
There does seem to be a shift away from the duopoly, but it can't be called seismic at this point. And there is a growing awareness that the Banks and corporatists, to quote Durbs “own” the duopoly (takes us back to a plutocracy, I guess).
This is a great trend, but there is not enough momentum yet. It will only break when all of the books (banks, gov, military, lobbyists, etc.) are opened for the publics’ viewing pleasure.
May 3, 2009 5:56 PM | Reply | Permalink
My theory on way the congressional Dems don't appear to be as happy as the rest of the world is with Obama is that they may have to actually do some work to keep their jobs. With the Republicans in an infantile sulk only taking their thumbs out of their mouths long enough to say no and the Democrats wondering where they are after waking up from an 8 year nap and thinking 'Dang, you mean I have to sit up straight and act like an adult' we'll be lucky if congress learns to spell health care before the next election.
May 4, 2009 5:06 AM | Reply | Permalink
I completely agree, blue, but congress is working on other important legislation and they did pass the budget focusing on top priorities. With the swine flu, congress had to assure everyone that pork is okay. And they’ve been pretty busy bailing out the banks while killing legislation to help people keep a roof over their heads. Also, there is the important work of fact-finding trips and attending professional conventions. Then some issues have to be addressed pronto or disaster will befall us. And Of course, Jane Harman is occupied with her civil rights crusade to end the legal wiretapping. And Arlen Specter is busy castigating congress for killing his friend, Jack Kemp. Even SCOTUS is supremely engaged debating Janet Jackson’s nipple (Scalia: “Can I see the enlargement again?”). Now that I look at it, I’m proud of my representatives for being so diligent.
May 4, 2009 5:39 PM | Reply | Permalink
To me the signature element of Rovian politics was the ruthless projection of their own faults or malicious plans onto their opponents. Thus is it is that Kerry was the coward in Vietnam while Bush was the fighter pilot, or that it was Liberals who wanted to undermine the Constitution while the "strict constructionists" secretly voided the 4th amendment.
How delicious to discover the Republicans dreams of an utterly eviscerated political opposition should turn out to have been projection as well. Sometimes you really do reap what you sow.
May 3, 2009 6:08 PM | Reply | Permalink
I agree with all, but let's not be complacent. Now that pretty much everything needs 60 votes, Obama's hands are still tied. The Blue Dogs will see to that, and the spin will make Obama look ineffectual. We need one more election and then get rid of Specter, Nelson, and several other republicans!
May 3, 2009 6:27 PM | Reply | Permalink
I am not sure everything needs 60 votes. Long version at this post.
http://angrybear.blogspot.com/2009/04/specter-blue-dogs-and-filibusters.html
The loss of the White House actually means 17 votes lost for a filibuster. When you take in the dynamics.
Republicans in the last Congress used the filibuster as a stand-in for the veto with the argument running as follows:
"If you can't get 60 votes to bust a filibuster you certainly can't get 67 to override a veto, so drop the political posturing and make a deal on our terms"
Which worked. And this whether you consider it to be simple pragmatism or cowardice. Because it was broadly speaking true, any 34 Senators could sustain a veto, meaning Reid needed to bust 16 R's out of 49. That wasn't going to happen.
Now the veto pen is lost, meaning that instead of having an ultimate 16 vote cushion they have 0. There is a hell of lot of difference between McConnell saying "Me and the President can guarantee you I won't lose more than 16 defectors" to "Me, myself, and I can guarantee you I won't lose any defector, any time". Where the veto threat gave Senate moderates cover in that even if they defected en masse there still would not be enough votes to override, now they are exposed. Instead of being just a theoretical one in a theoretical gang of sixteen, they are an actual one in a gang of one preventing legislation going forward.
I see this as a total different kind of pressure on the moderates, they no longer have the political cover supplied by the mouth-breathers. Is Olympia Snowe really willing to be the key vote blocking a public option? For the sake of a Party whose antics cost the Northeastern/Rockefeller branch just about everything?
May 3, 2009 7:28 PM | Reply | Permalink
VLaszlo,
“Steeper decline” ? What graph are you looking at?
If I were making fun of one side of the GOPer-Dem graph above, I’d be sure I got my facts right first. For example, I’d make sure that I understood that on the 6-year graph, Dems gained 1.18% per annum whereas GOPers lost 5.18% a year.
And, on the six-month graph, I’d be very careful to note that each party lost exactly the same: 3.29% a month.
(Of course, the GOPers started from a much smaller base, so losing points is much more significant.)
.
When GOPers are ready to play the role of a loyal opposition – when the voters ask them to – then they will be welcomed back into the community of fair-minded political parties.
May 3, 2009 9:39 PM | Reply | Permalink
What the chart shows is that the new major party is "Independent"...
not necessarily.
what the charts show according to the author (pew):
shorter: the 5-month trend is noteworthy; the yearly pattern more consistent and/or meaningful.
May 3, 2009 10:19 PM | Reply | Permalink
Both parties are as dead as was the Soviet Constitution in the 20th Century. They merely serve as a means to fool their participants that they actually have much say at all, then once their man or woman is elected, the real agenda begins at the top. Parties also serve to keep the people at odds, divided over what they could easily solve but for foolish partisan consistency across contradictory platform ideologies, so that elites may rule with less trouble. That's reality.
May 4, 2009 12:05 AM | Reply | Permalink
Could you be a tad more specific about why you think the Democratic Party, which recently won a big election, and has a masterful person at the helm...is dead?
May 4, 2009 6:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
I didn't think so.
Well, if the Dem party was dead, it is BORN AGAIN! EEEEHA!
And why is it born again? Because it cares about actual people. I don't know why you think that is a dead subject, but I feel kind of sorry for you anyway.
May 4, 2009 8:38 PM | Reply | Permalink
Oh, and if one's party helps push someone onto One Penn Ave, once that person is there, everyone's giddy for a season. Then reality sets in, and everyone starts morphing from starry eyed party faithful into musing realist. Having shifted from activist moralism to executive realism, the entire theater of the absurd continues unabated and what was once a immoral injustice foisted on the people by the other side becomes an indispensable asset one does not want to lose for their side once they're in power (lest they get egg on their executive facial side expression).
May 4, 2009 12:11 AM | Reply | Permalink
..with exceptions noted in advance who will no doubt speak for themselves.
May 4, 2009 12:14 AM | Reply | Permalink
Would that it were true, but having lived through various political cycles, I am skeptical as to the Republicans actually being dead... They just smell that way, I'm afraid.
The Democrats have such a rich history of shooting themselves in the foot, that they may end up saving the GOP from the fate it so well deserves.
May 4, 2009 11:47 AM | Reply | Permalink
This is the last post on TPM that I am going to make. Josh has the best blog on the Web but the comment sections are brim full of trolls. It is always a group of trolls rather than a troll. Trolls always work to together have fake fights and fake lovefests. Fake debating points and fake debates are rife. People are spending basically hours each day day in and day out waiting to blindside someone, that is 'dialogue' today. As has been said all the Republican Party has is belligerence.
May 5, 2009 10:07 AM | Reply | Permalink
The GOP has come back from the political wilderness before: 1952, 1968, 1980, 1994.
But each time, it happened because the Dems were perceived by the public as having totally screwed up: Korea, Vietnam, stagflation, the failure of HillaryCare respectively. And that gave the GOP an opening to rally around.
There are plenty of ways that Obama could fail: His spending could ignite stagflation, Iran could test-fire a nuclear bomb, a combination of Repubs and Blue Dog Dems could eviscerate his health care reform package, etc.
Right now, waiting for Obama to slip is the only hope the GOP has. Otherwise, they'll just have to wait till 2012, when the public may be tired of 8 years of Dem rule and want a change for the sake of changing.
May 5, 2009 12:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
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