More on religion and income
I appreciate Nolan's discussion of religion and income and his reference to the work of Huber and Stanig, upon which we leaned heavily in chapter 7 of our book. I have little to add beyond Nolan's discussion of what might be underlying the pattern that religious attendance is more strongly related to conservative voting among the rich than the poor in many different countries.
And, since Nolan posted a graph, I'd like to post one too--actually, something I posted a couple of months ago right after I got the Pew pre-election poll data.
(The size of each circle is proportional to the number of people represented in the survey. In particular, most of the people who attend church more than weekly are born-again Protestants. Also, some nonreligious people go to church; I assume this is for family reasons but I haven't examined the question in detail.) As in 2004, churchgoing is more strongly associated with Republican voting among Catholics and born-again Protestants than among non-born-again Protestants, and all three of these groups represent approximately equal proportions of the population. Whassup with those non-born-again Protestant regular churchgoers: didn't they get the memo? The patterns for Jews and Mormons are also interesting (and consistent with 2004). Finally, you can see that the "no religion" people continued to be a strong Democratic bloc.
What about income and voting? In Red State, Blue State, we talked about the pattern, consistent with the story of "post-materialism," that religious attendance is a more important predictor of vote choice for the rich than the poor. Here's what we see in 2008:
This is similar to what we saw in 2000 and 2004.
Finally, we can look at voting and income for different religious groupings:
Within the "no religion" group, income is associated very weakly with how you vote. This is consistent with the idea that social issues are more important for richer voters; thus, the richer people with no religion are remaining on the Democratic side because they don't like the Republican Party's socially conservative and religious orientation.





















I’d love to see a time series on this, because if that trend is really only thirty years old (as Gelman said in an earlier post) then Paul Krugman’s thesis suggests a clean narrative: When the Republicans turned their strategy Southward, they had to cater to religion as part of that because the South was highly religious. Once the GOP became invested in religion as part of its politics, the rest of the country heard that message and started voting accordingly. But since the original and enduring thrust of movement conservatism has been economic, it’s message works better on the religious faction’s richer segments (i.e., a dual appeal to that group). Chen and Lind, if I read them right, seem consistent with this answer, which addresses the passport issue (what is the time series on the European trend?). But religious discord might also answer that issue. I’m thinking of an analogy with Alesina, Glaeser, and Sacerdote, who found that racial discord in the U.S. has led to less support for the welfare state because racists don’t like the idea of redistribution to racial out-groups. Religious discord might have a similar effect. So, considering this data, which religions are most discordant towards others?
April 23, 2009 11:22 PM | Reply | Permalink
Another interesting question is which religion suffers the most from bias against it? Mitt Romney seemed to be clearly the most competent GOP candidate, but he didn't develop much traction outside of states where Mormons heavily mobilized for him (e.g., Nevada) or where he had roots (e.g., Michigan). Huckabee's supporters seemed to not like him for his Mormonism, allowing McCain to luck into the nomination.
I believe polling data confirms this: that far more people will come out and say they won't vote for a Mormon than any other religion. (Atheists do even worse.)
April 24, 2009 12:20 AM | Reply | Permalink
It would be interesting to study statistically the relationship of religious attendance to marriage and children.
More than a few people attend church functions in part or in whole for marriage and children-related reasons:
- To find a marriage-quality mate.
- To give their children a strong moral grounding.
Also, some churches function as mini-welfare states, redirecting resources from affluent empty-nesters to cash-strapped young parents by subsidizing programs like summer camps for the children of the congregation.
April 24, 2009 12:28 AM | Reply | Permalink
Also, it's worth breaking out church attendance by ethnicity. The Born-Again Protestants include both whites (who tend to be quite Republican), a growing number of Hispanics (who tend to be middle of the road), and blacks (who tend to be very Democratic, although socially conservative -- their huge turnout in support of Obama in California last November helped sink the gay marriage initiative).
Similarly, the Catholic vote includes both whites (middle of the road to moderately conservative) and Hispanics (Latino Catholics are quite Democratic).
Very generally speaking, when it comes to voting for President (but not necessarily for state initiatives)
- race/ethnicity trumps religion among blacks
- race/ethnicity and religion are roughly similar in importance among Latinos
- religion is more important among whites
Of course, there are gray areas -- Are nonobservant Jews (who tend to be very Democratic) really a religious group? Or are they a racial/ethnic group?
April 24, 2009 12:40 AM | Reply | Permalink
For example, the 2008 exit polls shows that McCain won 52-45 among white Catholics but lost 45-54 among all Catholics, largely because he got beat bad among Hispanics, especially among Hispanic Catholics.
The great majority of TPM Cafe readers are no doubt non-Hispanic whites and think mostly about other non-Hispanic whites, so it would probably be least confusing for them just to put up church attendance numbers for nHw's.
April 24, 2009 1:07 AM | Reply | Permalink
Steve, some great comments with good questions. Thanks for elevating the discussion.
It seems to me that religion as a political marker carries with it a Marxist premise: that religion is nothing in itself and only part of the 'super structure' of the bourgeois class.
Religion as a social phenomenon takes on a more functional, comprehensive look at the qualitative behaviors associated with religious groups.
The assumption of the piece seems to be that religious groups containing more left-leaning members should not be included in the analysis. Why?
April 24, 2009 1:50 AM | Reply | Permalink
Obviously, Marxism is an ideology, not an empirical law.
April 24, 2009 1:51 AM | Reply | Permalink
Oh and I note that the clowns promoting the non-credible God movie schtick are still inundating religiously oriented blogs at TPMCafe with their ad. Here's a new brand for them: AdNonsense. I'd like to see them grow a pair and openly attack the prophet Mohamed in their ads, and see if they still get banner time here on TPMCafe. Naw. It's a lot safer to attack the Christians since their faith is more or less supposed to be one that turns the other cheek. Well, many will turn the other cheek but still speak out against this sort of bigotry, whatever its sources.
What is the religious background or ethnic identity of those who most often attack Christians using media and entertainment (society's messaging, programming powers)? That would be an interesting set of data points to look at.
April 24, 2009 1:59 AM | Reply | Permalink
Mike7.
As Inigo Montoya would say: You use the word "bigotry". I do not think that word means what you think it means.
Certainly, "The God Who Wasn't There", which I have watched, is criticism of the alleged divinity (or even actual existence) of Yeshuah of Nazareth. One could even call it an "attack", I suppose, although that implies a virulence and violence (even if figuratively speaking) that I did not find in the movie.
But "bigotry"?. Not hardly. Religions make truth claims. Big, honking ones about Ultimate Reality 'n' such. This includes the vast panoply of sects contained within "Christianity" (even if just about all of the individual sects don't think any of the others -- heretics that they are -- have any business taking the mantle "Christian"). Those truth claims are open to criticism, as well they should be, whether people like it or not. That's what "The God Who Wasn't There" does.
You find it "non-credible". Fine, that's your prerogative. I find it eminently credible; certainly more so than the truth claims of orthodox Christianity, particularly those based on a set of arbitrarily-canonized ancient writings just chock full of internal contradictions and out-and-out magical fairy-tale nonsense (Noah's Ark? Israelites wandering in the desert for 40 years without wearing out their clothes or shoes? talking donkeys? Jonah and the giant sea creature?). I say this as a former long-practicing and deeply-believing "Christian", of the Catholic and then later of the fundagelical variety.
Want to know who some real bigots are? The millions of Republican fundagelicals who wouldn't vote for Romney cuz he's Mormon. And you yourself step right up to that line when you wonder about "the religious background or ethnic identity of those who most often attack Christians using media and entertainment". You don't mean Jews, do you? No, of course you don't.
April 24, 2009 5:56 PM | Reply | Permalink
DFH, I don't know the demographics of the folks behind the aforementioned hack docu-flick. So, no I don't mean what I don't know but I do wonder who. If I didn't would I be free? And if I weren't should I seek to be?
In any case, bigotry is not hard to spot in its facially neutral yet discriminatory-in-effect forms when you're on the inside of the spherical target looking out at the barbs.
Especially when someone goes into the Straw Man Old Testament as you have above do I turn back to my learnin' of that same story blend of ancient genres into one spiritual history document and ask 'shazaaayam, is we is, or is we ain't readin' the same documents?' Naw. Can't be.
Who said tribal war is about revenge? I know, but I'll bet you that person understood the way that redactors had to act to keep safe their maps and letters, their papers and effects, their banners and begats.
Oh, but not you.
April 26, 2009 4:03 AM | Reply | Permalink
"It seems to me that religion as a political marker carries with it a Marxist premise: that religion is nothing in itself and only part of the 'super structure' of the bourgeois class."
You don't need to be Marxist to regard religion in that light. Harvard and Yale clerics have been tut-tutting insufficiently educated evangelicals out of town since colonial times.
April 25, 2009 11:51 AM | Reply | Permalink
Harvard and Yale clerics. Look that's OK with me but just because something is esoteric doesn't mean it doesn't have a spiritual base of its own which if plainly spoken to the non-potentates would be grounds for successful impeachment. Besides, "Theology without practice is the theology of demons."
April 26, 2009 4:06 AM | Reply | Permalink