Rahm Emanuel: Obama Laying Down Law To Netanyahu
Shimon Shiffer, the Yedioth Achronoth correspondent and one of Israel's top journalists, is reporting today that Rahm Emanuel told a top Jewish organizational figure that President Obama intends to see a Palestinian state created during his first term.
"In the next four years there is going to be a permanent status arrangement between Israel and the Palestinians on the basis of two states for two peoples, and it doesn't matter to us at all who is prime minister," Shiffer quotes Emanuel as saying.
More details here including the President's decision to be "out of town" when Netanyahu comes to Washington for the AIPAC conference.
I'll try to find a link in English. So far, the story is only in Hebrew.
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Interesting!
Have you seen this?
http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUSTRE53F20V20090416
April 16, 2009 11:36 AM | Reply | Permalink
Good article to flesh out and substantiate Yedioth Achronoth "(unnamed) Jewish leader" statement regarding Obama's stance. Still I wonder how much progress Mitchell will make talking to the corrupt leader of a corrupt party to the exclusion of Hamas, however we feel about Hamas ideology and tactics.
April 16, 2009 1:15 PM | Reply | Permalink
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December 16, 2010 8:47 AM | Reply | Permalink
Maybe Netanyahu and Gabi Ashkenazi can talk to some bell hop at a DC hotel about attacking Iran.
The O-Man, my awesome president, is not interested.
Why does Obama remind me of every mother's perfect son and Netanyahu of every divorcee's first husband?
April 16, 2009 4:04 PM | Reply | Permalink
Am I the only who is amazed that if you want a peace deal, treat Israel like a nation state. Nation states respond to carrots and sticks.
And his decision to leave Netanyahu holding the bag? Priceless. Eveyday Obama reminds me of every mother's dream child, and Netanyahu of every divorcee's first husband.
April 16, 2009 4:08 PM | Reply | Permalink
mmm...well this is certainly encouraging to all of us who want to see peace and the end of all the killing and suffering .
April 16, 2009 11:46 AM | Reply | Permalink
It won't stop the killing and suffering because it doesn't resolve Jerusalem. The Palestinians believe Jerusalem belongs to them completely, as do the Israelis. Barring Jerusalem becoming an international city run by someone like the UN (which would have its own problems), there will be no chance of any lasting, permanent peace.
All this move will do is hurt Obama with the Jewish vote, much of which, while tending to vote Dem, is very pro-Israel and opposes legitimizing the Palestinians. This will be used against him in 2012 and in a close race could cost him Florida.
April 16, 2009 11:53 AM | Reply | Permalink
i think you are getting way out in front of yourself.
this is the beginning not the end.
i do not believe this will hurt obama with the jewish vote and all the polls i have seen show a clear majority favor a 2 state solution.
but, lets take it slow here.
just saying something does not make it so.
it takes a lot of work with willing partners.
April 16, 2009 12:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
If Obama can get a two state agreement he won't need those jewish voters in FL - he'll have the whole world supporting him.
April 16, 2009 12:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
Good comment. In addition to what you say, most of those Jewish voters will be with him anyway if he closes the deal.
April 18, 2009 6:26 AM | Reply | Permalink
"It won't stop the killing and suffering because it doesn't resolve Jerusalem. The Palestinians believe Jerusalem belongs to them completely, as do the Israelis. Barring Jerusalem becoming an international city run by someone like the UN (which would have its own problems), there will be no chance of any lasting, permanent peace."
Thus, you seem to say there's no solution. That's what the Israeli right wing wants, too: no exit.
Barack Obama didn't move into the Oval Office to putz around. This is going to happen. You can start getting used to the idea.
April 18, 2009 6:30 AM | Reply | Permalink
Let me put it this way:
1)Jewish not as Pro-Israel (Extreme Right Wing Version) as you suspect
2)Even if it is, they are not all going to vote Republican for that reason alone so electorally a small problem
Besides who the fuck cares about Florida? Florid was icing, nothing but.
April 16, 2009 12:14 PM | Reply | Permalink
It's about time someone laid down some law to Israel
April 16, 2009 12:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
Amen to that.
April 16, 2009 1:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
I hope this report is true, but I'm not sure what difference it will make if Netenyahu is in charge. They cannot force him to do anything. He could simply sabotage the process.
April 16, 2009 12:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
And see a rapid diminishing of US assistance and backstopping if he decides to play saboteur.
April 16, 2009 12:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
Perhaps, but while the US has hinted at doing that previously, they have never made good on such threats.
April 16, 2009 1:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
Two words: Double. You.
April 16, 2009 1:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
And there's literally NO difference between Obama and anyone else ever to hold the office.
Wait, you don't think there is...
April 16, 2009 1:47 PM | Reply | Permalink
I said nothing of the kind.
The fact is, you can look back through our various administrations and you can see that the US takes little more than symbolic action if Israel acts in defiance of our stated policy goals. I think that has been a bad precedent to set and I hope that in this case, our current adminstration would be willing to "do" something if the Israeli government works against our interests or effort to secure a two state solution.
April 16, 2009 2:49 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'll take who was Jimmy Carter for $400!
Or was that whole Begin/Sadat thing just an acid flashforward?
April 16, 2009 4:12 PM | Reply | Permalink
Maybe, but I've also read many of your other comments.
'Nuff said.
April 16, 2009 6:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'm not sure how much credence to give to this story. Maybe Emmanuel said something to that effect (it sounds a bit like him); but from the sound of it the leak and/or the story seems calculated to foment resentment in Israel, portraying Obama as playing dictator, and saying to hell with your elections.
The "out of town" stuff is even weirder. No mention is made of where Obama is planning to be -- is he gonna be in Japan or something? Or is he just planning a side trip to Pittsburgh so as to "miss" Bibi? Again, the article seems to be written to portray Bibi as the being snubbed.
April 16, 2009 12:43 PM | Reply | Permalink
Looking at the picture, I though Lieberman was a Palestinian! This truly is a Cain-Abel scenario.
April 16, 2009 1:10 PM | Reply | Permalink
No, because Palestinians actually come from Palestine. Mr. Lieberman comes from Moldova.
April 16, 2009 4:09 PM | Reply | Permalink
That was a pretty low blow. By your logic, you could say the same thing about all the Mexican and other immigrants that come here for a better life.
April 16, 2009 4:49 PM | Reply | Permalink
Low blow?
But denying Palestinians are a people and have no right to return to their land of their birth is not?
At long last, sir, have you no sense of irony.
April 16, 2009 6:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
The so-called Palestinians have came from a variety of region: at the very beginning from Saudi Arabia (as conquers in the name of their famous rapist and pedophile), but the majority of them have arrived from Egypt, Syria, etc. and only after the Zionists have started their noble project. Lieberman returned to the land of his ancestors indeed from Moldova. I hope this government will transfer the so-called Palestinians to Jordan. This is the only possibility for a real Palestinian state and lasting peace.
April 16, 2009 8:49 PM | Reply | Permalink
Great to learn you've gotten in touch with your inner Avigdor Lieberman. Have you been seeing Dr. Krauthammer?
April 16, 2009 11:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
Dr. Krauthammer is a knowledgeable man, but I don't need his advise in order to figure out about Avigdor Lieberman. Great politician, in my opinion; not from this Israeli elite network of good-old-boys. He has some fresh and interesting ideas, so why not to listen first before we make a verdict?
April 17, 2009 9:49 PM | Reply | Permalink
It's not going to happen the way you want, bigot.
April 18, 2009 6:34 AM | Reply | Permalink
It already happens the way I want and it's going to be even better, blockhead.
April 19, 2009 2:38 PM | Reply | Permalink
The Israelis grandfathers and great-grandfathers came from a variety of places: St. Petersburg, Kiev, Warsaw, Vienna, and Vilnius. The Palestinians in West Bank and Gaza are living in the land where their grandfathers and great-grandfathers were born.
The Land in all its thousands of years of history has never belonged to just one single people. It is "the promised land" because the United Nations promised it in 1948. The rest is a nice story but is a work of fiction; not history. According to the mandate for partition, it is to be divided between Arabs and Jews. The UN giveth and the UN can taketh away also.
April 18, 2009 9:05 PM | Reply | Permalink
UN is toothless and should be re-arranged or dismantled. When countries like Germany are not included among the permanent members of the council, it does little justice to the reality. This organization can't take away anything. Besides, the initial partition was accepted by Jews but rejected by Arabs. Not to mention that this partition was made only after an additional major one, where Jordan (God knows why) received a chunky part of Palestine.
Since the beginning of the controversy the Jews have always been ready to share the territory, but not the Arabs. Today, there is no justification for independent Palestinian state and the Arabs from Palestine should be transferred to Jordan, Egypt, Syria, etc. That is to say to the countries they come from. The majority of grand-fathers of so-called Palestinians have arrived to Palestine at the beginning of the 20th century, so it's not that different from the majority of the Jewish newcomers.
April 19, 2009 6:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
Verrry interesting.
Possibly the AIPAC supporters got their signals crossed before and during the 2008 election and failed to adequately lay out working arrangements with the potential President Obama and his crew.
Have they started shrieking in public yet? Or will all the cries of "Antisemitism" be under the table and used for fund raising?
April 16, 2009 5:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
AIPAC = MOSSAD.
To many members of AIPAC place the interests of Israel ahead of the interests of the USA.
Those interests are not the same.
April 16, 2009 9:38 PM | Reply | Permalink
How refreshing ! Just the rumor of law being laid down makes my heart go pit-a-pat ... I posted this suggestion a few weeks ago ...
No white house, no photos ops, no listening to the same old crap, no encouragement at all until you get serious. It will take a very short time for this treatment to have an effect. Attention is like oxygen to some people.
The "Iran-has-Nukes" tale has not excited the American public at all. So, plan B : the frustrated people will join the effort to weaken our president by any means ... rile up the gun nuts, support the astroturf teabaggers, turn up the volume on hysterical nonsense aimed at the president. Ask about his birth certificate, etc etc
The bomb-Iran crowd is small numerically but extremely determined to have their way. They are like Bolsheviks that way.
April 16, 2009 5:58 PM | Reply | Permalink
Almost certainly, MJ and his anti-Israel acolytes are reading too much into this. This sounds like a classic strategic leak from someone hoping to influence the process. It also sounds very un-Obamalike. Obama is not in the habit of issuing ultimatums or of snubbing people.
This is not to say that there won't be significant changes in the approach to the Middle East compared with the Bush Administration. But if there's one thing we've learned about Obama, it's that he moves carefully, deliberately and doesn't unnecessarily alienate people. This is no different.
Obama knows that Israel can't be forced into a deal it doesn't like. He knows that a withdrawal from the West Bank will be a national trauma for Israel that can only be justified if the quality of the peace on offer from the Palestinians is high enough. A mere state of cease-fire will not cut it. He also is well aware that while Israel might be able to do more to foster peace negotiations, the Palestinians are still a complete mess as well. In short, it is highly unlikely that Obama, unlike many of his leftist supporters, believes that peace is only an Israeli concession or two away.
The most ridiculous claim is the one saying that the US will not look sympathetically on Israel's concerns about Iran unless Israel makes peace according to the classic leftist formula of total withdrawal. I don't think so. If the US is sympathetic to the Israeli position on Iran, it is because there is a shared perception of the actual threat. It isn't some reward or punishment for behavior on an unrelated issue.
April 16, 2009 6:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
BTD: "Obama knows that Israel can't be forced into a deal it doesn't like."
Why is this true? Just because the US hasn't sanctioned Israel doesn't mean sanctioning Israel or "forcing" Israel to change policy won't work.
I love the irony of Israel's supporters claiming that pressure would be ineffective. What they mean is that pressure would be effective. So please don't apply it. (Loan guarantees anyone one?)
And if pressure is not effective on foreign nations, then suspend all sanctions on Iran and North Korea, etc., right now.
April 16, 2009 6:57 PM | Reply | Permalink
I would say that in general negative pressure is not effective on foreign nations. Iran is thumbing its nose at the world. So is North Korea. It's hard to think of any recent examples of effective sanctions. Perhaps South Africa in the early 1990s is one. But that was a total worldwide boycott, something that has rarely been achieved.
You could also argue that Israel HAS been subject to intense pressure for it's entire existence. The entire Muslim world doesn't have relations with it. It is ostracized in international organizations. Relations with ostensible allies like France are frosty. And the US is pressuring Israel to continue a "peace process" that few Israelis think will lead to peace. And yet despite all this, Israel still reserves the right to make decisions about its security.
April 16, 2009 8:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
Considering that Abe Foxman has claimed that the Divestment Movement represents an existential threat to Israel, I find your argument unconvincing.
Now, if you agree that Foxman is an intellecutally fatuous blowhard, then I will withdraw his "evidence."
April 17, 2009 1:06 PM | Reply | Permalink
Ah but it does sound like Rahm Emanuel,
April 16, 2009 7:49 PM | Reply | Permalink
The original Hebrew article was, AFAI could tell from the crappy google translatation, pretty much all about Iran. It also featured Robert Gate's recent remarks on the subject to a bunch of Marines.
Here's more on the Yedioth Achronoth article in question. It appears that the Israelis played their hand first and that some "senior officials" are accepting the bet:
"The paper's Shimon Shiffer wrote that Netanyahu and his top ministers, Mr. Lieberman and Defense Minister Ehud Barak, "agreed to show a united front that the route to reaching a solution would be the road map, and would clarify that Israeli flexibility on the Palestinian issue would be contingent upon the American approach toward resolving the Iranian threat, as well as its attitude towards Hamas and Hezbollah.
"Senior US administration officials are fully aware of the linkage that Prime Minister Netanyahu and Defense Minister Barak have created between Israeli willingness to make advances on the Palestinian track and their expectations of the Americans to address the Iranian threat, and senior American officials have begun to talk about 'Bushehr for Yitzhar,' " Shiffer explained.
"Namely, if you want us to help you defuse the Iranian threat, including the nuclear reactor in Bushehr, get ready to evacuate settlements in the West Bank, with Yitzhar considered to be a token of an Israeli withdrawal from West Bank territory."
http://www.csmonitor.com/2009/0416/p06s07-wogn.html?page=2
April 16, 2009 10:44 PM | Reply | Permalink
dont you ever get tired of just making s*** up?
April 16, 2009 11:05 PM | Reply | Permalink
Sanctions worked with South Africa --why not Israel?
April 16, 2009 11:27 PM | Reply | Permalink
MJ is no more 'anti-Israel' than a pork chop is kosher. He is explicitly pro-human-rights and believes, as I do, that all life is of value - not merely the lives of those Israelis and their families who support Likud.
There WILL be a Palestinian state in Palestine - but what other statal entity there will be extant 20 years hence, is a matter of conjecture.
April 17, 2009 4:29 PM | Reply | Permalink
THE CHARTER OF THE HAMAS
THE CHARTER OF ALLAH:
THE PLATFORM OF THE ISLAMIC RESISTANCE MOVEMENT (HAMAS)
"Israel, by virtue of its being Jewish and of having a Jewish population, defies Islam and the Muslims."
"[Peace] initiatives, the so-called peaceful solutions, and the international conferences to resolve the Palestinian problem, are all contrary to the beliefs of the Islamic Resistance Movement. For renouncing any part of Palestine means renouncing part of the religion;"
April 16, 2009 7:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
The Likud Platform
April 16, 2009 10:47 PM | Reply | Permalink
Checkmate.
April 17, 2009 1:03 PM | Reply | Permalink
More like stalemate.
April 17, 2009 6:39 PM | Reply | Permalink
The "charter" is not actually the same as the platform of Hamas, and in fact has no official status. It reportedly was never quoted by Yassin, the founder of Hamas, nor by Meshal, the current head, indicating it is not as authoritative as some have made it out to be. It was written twenty years ago by an individual connected to the group. According to this Jersualem Post article, it has been under consideration for a few years for removing the rabidly anti-Semitic and anti-Israel language. As one Hamas member said, "The charter was not written by a prophet," meaning it can be changed.
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull&cid=1139395429041
April 19, 2009 6:29 AM | Reply | Permalink
FINALLY someone laying down the damn law. We will have a two state solution, enough bullcrapping.
April 16, 2009 8:10 PM | Reply | Permalink
There's something here that's even more innovative than it seems at first glance, and only Lally mentioned it - the Obama ties the containment of Iran's nuclear power with the West Bank. The headline in "Yediot" was "The Iranian Reactor for West Bank Settlements". I don't think most people appreciate how much the Iranian issue is at this point THE main fear here in Israel, and most security policies are guided by it. The vast majority of Israelis, who support two states solution anyway, will happily support ending the occupation if it will mean containing the Iranian bomb. Iran could become both the carrot and the stick, and it would be more effective than any sanctions that people constantly talk about. Tying the occupation with Iran should become the new mantra for all of us, both in the US and in Israel, who support peace and the end of the occupation.
April 17, 2009 12:31 AM | Reply | Permalink
Did you ever consider that the GOI whips up anti-Iranian hysteria to prevent the people of Israel from asking tough questions about gowing income and social equality?
I mean, it's not like other nations, read: all nations, includin, the USG, don't have a long track record of over-hyping threats to stampede their citizens into quiesence.
April 17, 2009 1:09 PM | Reply | Permalink
Adenauer.
"Tying the occupation with Iran should become the new mantra for all of us, both in the US and in Israel, who support peace and the end of the occupation."
If the price includes a war on Iran, "peace" is the last thing that we and the regions of the ME and SW Asia will get.
Oddly, I rarely see any discussions of the consequences of an Iranian attack in the Israeli media. It's as if the subject is taboo other than reports on civil defense exercises, when the redistribution of gas masks will start and other things of that nature.
I suppose more Israelis will be thinking about the dangers once the whole country participates in the exercise at the end of May.
In today's Haaretz, Yossi Melman has convinced himself that America, the West and the Arab world would silently cheer an Israeli attack on Iran.
Apparently, Melman doesn't consider the possibility of Americans dying in Iraq and other theatres as a result to be a problem, PR-wise. Someone is likely to suggest that they're dying for Israel.
Perhaps Yossi doesn't understand that while Americans are comfortably misinformed about the realities of the ME, more of our populace is less likely to be fooled into believing in fairytales post-Iraq.
The fact is simple, Israel can't attack Iran without US. Whether our assistance is overt or aims for plausible deniability, there is no way that Americans won't be paying a price in treasure and blood.
April 17, 2009 6:47 PM | Reply | Permalink
RE: "the President's decision to be "out of town" when Netanyahu comes to Washington for the AIPAC conference"
FROM THE "JERUSALEM POST" (04/16/09):
"...Mitchell invited Netanyahu to visit Washington on May 11, but that proved problematic for scheduling reasons, the sources said..."
SOURCE - http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1239710701752&pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull
MY COMMENT: Draw your own conclusions.
April 17, 2009 1:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
MJ
Just received your email comment "Figuring Obama Wrong" and frankly this part has me flummoxed
Israel is a garrison state which in just the past 2 years has launched two brutal attacks and all but destroyed Lebanon and Gaza
April 17, 2009 2:11 PM | Reply | Permalink
Because they had no choice. (Sarcasm.) They had to keep up a blockade of Gaza and they have to routinely violate Lebanese sovereignty, which the IDF does every day. Can you imagine if Lebanese or Syrian jets flew over Tel Aviv everyday, we would never hear the end of it. IDF jets fly over Beirut....and (cricket sounds).
Mr. JohnMcCSF, if you accept that one set of rules applies to Israel, and another to everyone else, then the logic makes sense.
April 17, 2009 4:55 PM | Reply | Permalink
"US: Palestinians need not recognize Israel as Jewish state before talks"
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1079213.html
"Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's demand that the Palestinians recognize Israel as the state of the Jewish people as a condition for renewing peace talks is unacceptable to the United States, the State Department said during special envoy George Mitchell's visits over the weekend to Ramallah and Cairo."
Gobama!
April 18, 2009 10:14 PM | Reply | Permalink
"In the next four years there is going to be alot of cars being transported by nationwide auto transport. So we will have no issues in having our cars transported. As well as a permanent arrangement between Israel and Palestinians on the basis of two states for two peoples.
June 25, 2010 1:43 PM | Reply | Permalink
We need right behind President Obama and his plan to make Palestine a state as well as his future car transportation plan.
July 7, 2010 10:22 PM | Reply | Permalink
Perhaps Yossi doesn't understand that while Americans are comfortably misinformed about the realities of the ME, more of our populace is less likely to be fooled into believing in fairytales post-Iraq.
Should you wear skimpy clothes to work? You may be comfortable wearing them and may not think twice about trying to impress your coworkers, but could your attire in the workplace be misunderstood by others?Skimpy Clothes and the Workplace
August 24, 2010 8:31 AM | Reply | Permalink
It has been under consideration for a few years for removing the rabidly anti-Semitic and anti-Israel language canadian/a>
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