TPMCafe
« Lords Of Finance | Home | Obama Makes First Move in Long Dance Ahead on US-Cuba Policy »

The Lessons of the Great Depression

user-pic

I would like to thank TPM Café for hosting this discussion.

Lords of Finance is intended to be a popular narrative history about the causes of the Great Depression. I chose to tell the story by looking over the shoulders as it were of the four major central bankers of the period, Montagu Norman of the Bank of England, Benjamin Strong of the New York Fed, Hjalmar Schacht of the Reichsbank and Emile Moreau of the Banque de France. It was a way of turning the spotlight on key economic decision makers of the era, thus highlighting that the Great Depression was caused by a series of policy mistakes, especially by central bankers. Moreover by telling the story through individual biographies, I thought it would make the book more accessible to more people.

The economic story that underlies Lords of Finance is an eclectic one. The book emphasizes three broad factors behind the Great Depression. First was the gigantic overhang of international debts after the First World War, the result of the failure of statesmanship at the Paris Peace Conference of 1919. German reparations and European war debts left massive fault-lines in the world financial system, which cracked at the first pressure.

The second was the malfunctioning international financial system and in particular the gold standard. Gold supplies had not kept up with prices during the First World War; and the distribution of gold bullion after the war was badly skewed, with much of it concentrated in the U.S. The problem of inadequate gold reserves was compounded when Europe went back to gold at exchange rates that were grossly misaligned, resulting in constant pressure, particularly on the Bank of England, the linchpin of the world's financial system.

Central bankers were only able to keep the world economy going by holding U.S. interest rates down and by keeping Germany afloat on borrowed money. It was a system that held the seeds of its own destruction. Eventually the policy of keeping U.S. interest rates low to shore up the international exchanges precipitated a bubble in the U.S. stock market. By 1927 the Fed was thus torn between two conflicting objectives--to keep propping up Europe or to control speculation on Wall Street. It tried to do both and achieved neither. Its attempts to curb stock speculation were too half-hearted to bring Wall Street back to earth but powerful enough to cause a collapse in lending to Germany, driving most of central Europe into depression and setting in train deflationary forces throughout the rest of the world. Eventually in the last week of October 1929, the bubble burst, plunging the U.S into its own recession.

The stresses and strains of trying to keep the limping gold standard going may have made some sort of financial crisis inevitable. It was not necessary for the crisis to metastasize into a worldwide catastrophe. What began as corrective recessions in the U.S. and Germany were transformed into a global depression by two policy blunders.

The Fed, led by a group of inexperienced and ill-informed time-servers, failed to act as lender of last resort and support the banking system when the U.S. bank panics hit in 1931. And because of the operation of the gold standard countries with inadequate gold reserves, especially Germany and Britain, were obliged to keep credit tight. This culminated in a European currency crisis in 1931following the failure of Credit Anstalt.

The most common question that I have been asked while promoting my book is: What then are the lessons of the Great Depression for the current situation? The essential thesis of Lords of Finance is that more than anything else the Great Depression was caused by a failure of intellectual will, a lack of understanding about how the economy operated. Central bankers in the 1920s were like 18th century doctors who thought that the cure for illness was to draw blood from the patient. Having been through the Great Depression however, we now know what not to do. We are not repeating the same mistakes. We are not letting the banking system collapse. Nor is there any attempt to curb budget deficits. Nor is any major economy planning to raise interest rates in defense of the currency.

Knowing what not to do is however different from knowing what to do. Until the current crisis I had always assumed that we understood the economy and knew what levers to pull to get it out of a slump. Though I still believe this, I have to admit to having had some doubts.

First question: are we sure that the current package of measures--a Fed that has trebled its balance sheet, a fiscal stimulus package of over 3% 0f GDP and various measures to recapitalize the banking system--will work? Or has the structure of the economy changed so much--e.g. a financial system that is several times larger in proportion to GDP than it used to be, households that are highly indebted--that the traditional instruments of policy we thought we could rely on to jumpstart the economy will no longer work?

My second question relates to the international environment. Charles Kindleberger in his book The World in Depression attributed the 1929 collapse to a failure of global economic leadership. In his view a well functioning world economy required some country to act as the leader, in effect to do more than its fair share of keeping global economy moving, to be the supplier of capital of last resort during crises and to act counter-cyclically as the economic locomotive for the world recognizing that smaller countries will freeload off its efforts

Before the First World War, Britain had assumed the role. But, almost bankrupted by the war, it was no longer able to fulfill that function. The mantle of leadership should have passed to the U.S. But the leaders of the U.S. were too parochial and insular to seize the opportunity. Thus during the 1930s the Britain was unable to lead and the U.S. was unwilling.

Are we at a similar transition point and are we going to suffer from a similar vacuum of world leadership. Has the US been so weakened by its accumulated current account deficits, its banking debacle and its foreign policy disasters that it is incapable of bearing more than its fair share of the burden?


29 Comments

| Leave a comment
user-pic

I look forward to reading the book, but your post glosses over the fundamental problem: the system is focused on making money out of money, not on profiting from innovation, entrepreneurial talent, or productivity. All that stuff gets too boring for people with lots of money, as the best opportunities in the real economy get snapped up. What's left is using leverage with other peoples' money, with the indulgence of bought-and-paid-for politicians, to make money from financial machinations that add nothing to efficient capital allocation.

If it is to have any chance at all, the financial system needs industrial-strength regulation, which may not be politically sustainable, and we need to put some bankers in life-boats and provide target practice for Navy Seals.

The lords of finance are the parasites of the economy.

user-pic

Rotwang, I could hardly agree more. Especially the comment that big money holders no longer contribute to the real economy. Instead, they have discovered, maybe invented, insurance, banking, holding bonds etc. - making money out of money.

The so-called "FIRE" economy is choking the real economy to death.

As just one example, look at insurance costs. Compare them with insurance costs prior to 911. A seldom discussed fact is that 911 was used as the grand excuse for Buffet and friends to double and tripple insurance costs for small businesses and families- all in the name of keeping the insurance companies healthy. And Buffet got healthier and healthier and the guy that actually works for a living, whether making cars or owning a small business, got thinner and thinner.

Compare insurance costs with insurance costs just after WW2 and much of the bigger picture becomes apparant.

user-pic

You're sort of right, Mr. Rotwang, but your left-wing bias betrays you.

You say "the financial system needs industrial-strength regulation" but your bias keeps you from seeing that the regulators will ALWAYS be "led by a group of inexperienced and ill-informed time-servers...too parochial and insular to seize [any] opportunity" or face new situations with daring and innovation.

You correctly note that our system, and the rich people who run it, find it too difficult to "profit [ing] from innovation, entrepreneurial talent, or productivity" and turn instead to the more less criminal, and much easier, endeavor of making money from money. Once again your bias betrays you. Innovation and entrepreneurial talent
are quite rare...depending solely on them would leave much of the population - somewhere between 25 to 50% of it - without work.

Which brings us to your final claim "The lords of finance are the parasites of the economy". Please. Half the population are parasites of the economy. That's the ugly truth which no one on the Left and few on the Right are willing to face.


user-pic

"You say "the financial system needs industrial-strength regulation" but your bias keeps you from seeing that the regulators will ALWAYS be "led by a group of inexperienced and ill-informed time-servers...too parochial and insular to seize [any] opportunity" or face new situations with daring and innovation."

Not if we incentivize it properly.

"Innovation and entrepreneurial talent are quite rare...depending solely on them would leave much of the population - somewhere between 25 to 50% of it - without work."

Yawn.

user-pic

"Not if we incentivize it properly."

You mean pay the sharks as much to regulate as they could make otherwise? Or do you mean give the untalented, unimaginative apparachiks unlimited power?

"Yawn"

If you're tired go to sleep. Don't waste bandwidth...and stop being pretentious. What you're claiming is obvious is simply wrong.

user-pic

Think about it this way;

"from each according to his ability, to each according to his need" would lead to a certain distribution of wealth.

If instead we were to follow the prescription "from each according to his ability, to each according to his ability" how different do you think the distribution would be?

user-pic

I can see why the thought would make you nervous.

user-pic

Snap!

You hit it right on the head Rotwang!

user-pic

I think that there are several flaws in Mr. Ahamed's thinking.

My personal favorite account of the Great Depression is America's Great Depression by Murray Rothbard. It explains the issue somewhat similarly, but with important differences.

First was the gigantic overhang of international debts after the First World War, the result of the failure of statesmanship at the Paris Peace Conference of 1919. German reparations and European war debts left massive fault-lines in the world financial system, which cracked at the first pressure.

What was also a problem was a protectionist U.S. policy at a time when we were running trade surpluses. Such a policy made it impossible for foreign countries to pay their debts and required us to finance our own exports through loans to these countries.

The second was the malfunctioning international financial system

Yes!

and in particular the gold standard.

No!

The problem of inadequate gold reserves was compounded when Europe went back to gold at exchange rates that were grossly misaligned, resulting in constant pressure, particularly on the Bank of England, the linchpin of the world's financial system.

True, but the problem here was that Britain was unwilling to do what needed to be done to get back on the gold standard - lower wages. To keep wages high without going off the gold standard, Britain relied on the U.S. supporting the pound.

Central bankers were only able to keep the world economy going by holding U.S. interest rates down and by keeping Germany afloat on borrowed money. It was a system that held the seeds of its own destruction. Eventually the policy of keeping U.S. interest rates low to shore up the international exchanges precipitated a bubble in the U.S. stock market.

Yes, which is consistent with Austrian theory - busts are caused by (unsustainable) booms, which are caused by artificially low interest rates. But again, a saner trade policy and a willingness to let wages fall in the face of falling prices would have solved much of the problem.

The stresses and strains of trying to keep the limping gold standard going may have made some sort of financial crisis inevitable.

No, the stresses and strains of Hoover strong-arming business to keep wages high in the face of deflation and to keep investing in expansion at a time when there was insufficient capital to do so are what kept the Depression from correcting itself, as happened in the earlier recession/depression of 1920-21.

The Fed, led by a group of inexperienced and ill-informed time-servers, failed to act as lender of last resort and support the banking system when the U.S. bank panics hit in 1931.

This is a very selective way to read the data. In point of fact, the Fed reduced the discount rate from 6% in October of 1929 to 4.5% by the end of 1929, 2% by the end of 1930, and 1.5% by the end of the third quarter of 1931, only raising rates to 3.5% during the fourth quarter. To focus on the tighter policies of 1931 as the problem and to ignore the fact that increasingly loose monetary policies over the previous two years did nothing to help the economy is rather disingenuous. And in any case, the Fed increased controlled reserves during the last quarter of 1931, so even then its policy was inflationary on balance.


user-pic

The first thought in any scheme to stabalize the economy is to punish the workers. It's always the first thought in stabalizing companies going under, in fact it's always the first thought in good times - punish the very people who brung'em to the party in the first place...and yet they're always so innovative in finding ways to hide, lower and obscure their tax burden.

user-pic

BevD has a point. Rotwang, Oleeb, Ellen and some others who comment here are obviously well educated people and have studied economics. Is there no way to run an economy that gives sensible incentives to the investor class and their conniving surrogates yet genuinely rewards people who actually work? Face it, the problem is that Wall Street has been buying public law by financing the election of opportunistic morons whose first loyalty is remaining in office. Rotwang, Rotwang, weigh in here, please.

user-pic

If you have capitalism you're going to have to institute financial regulation. Problem is that regulation tends to lag new nefarious practices in finance, finance tends to capture the regulatory authorities, and in a boom nobody gives a damn because everybody wants to jump on the bubble while the getting is good. It has always been this way. As the world economy grows the bubbles get bigger and we come down harder.

Assuming there is the political will, regulation is still a complicated legal matter. Political will now is not what it might be because Obama enjoys such confidence from voters and the financial lizards he has engaged to fix this mess enjoy confidence from him.

We need a more critical stance vis-a-vis the Administration, less mindless allegiance. Besides re-regulation, policy-wise we need a better safety net and better social insurance, and less babbling about debt/entitlements/taxes.

user-pic

What we really need to do is stop the lobbying, enact term limits and put congressional aides on pay levels. As long as we tolerate systemic, legalized looting of the process it will continue in the same way.

user-pic
Problem is that regulation tends to lag new nefarious practices in finance

It depends on how regulations are written. The problem with current regulations is that they permit anything that is not forbidden. This allows clever lawyers to devise new instruments and types of contracts that are not yet forbidden.

If regulations are written to forbid everything that is not permitted, the clever lawyering is constrained. Of course, the financiers can still do venue shopping among countries with differing regulations.

user-pic

Were not those central bankers front men for more powerful international bankers with motives that might have strayed from creating/maintaining economic stability?

Are there not fortunes to be made by creating bubbles, selling high, popping the bubbles, and then buying again at pennies on the dollar, while at the same time re-stabilizing markets to create the next bubble?

I'm thinking Rockefellers, Morgans, Rothschilds, and Warburgs. Or were they mere sideshows to your "Lords of Finance?"


user-pic

I am willing to discount the derogatory title of this book as a marketing trick designed to grow sales. And I'm relying on the marketing literature pushing this is a story of several bankers, "Lords of Finance", who have single-handedly destroyed the entire global economy.

The problem that I have is that this book is trying to draw lessons from the Great Depression while at the same time blaming just four (!) people for the global crisis.

Any crisis can be blamed on a handful of people who happened to stand at the wheel at the time. That would include the tulip bubble, dot-com bubble, housing bubble, etc, etc, etc - Wikipedia alone lists 14 asset bubbles - and yet they keep happening, even in the most predictable sectors.

So while I can live with some melodrama about four evil-doers who screwed the rest of the world, any learning from this story is necessarily dealing with consequence of something deeper and not well understood.

It's perfectly fine to capitalize on the pitchfork wave, but let's admit that the direction of our current thinking is a bit like Advil - everything about the symptoms and nothing about the cause of the problem.

We just keep moving from bubble to bubble and keep looking for an evil person to blame everything on.

user-pic

Lalo, Ahamed isn't saying that 4 men were totally responsible. I think he is saying they were major players and looking at their actions helps to understand the bigger picture.

You know, I read on TPM about 20 appologies for the pirates. Now you are appolgizing for the filthy rich and greedy who exasperated the Great Depression.

I just don't understand all these appologies for the side that is wrong. Being Liberal does not mean everything is grey. Some things are black and white.

user-pic

The situation today is radically different from the Great Depression, particularly because then the German war reparations, the debts to America of the Allies, and the attempt following the Great War to go back onto the gold standard have no modern counterpart.

However, the international character of the Great Depression is well illustrated, starting with the German crises in 1929, the stock market collapse in the US, recurrent troubles, and finally the Credit Anstalt collapse in Vienna, which the French exacerbated by their uncooperativeness.

Our current crises is similarly international in scope, with the British building societies in crises as well as our own mortgage market, with derivatives markets in London figuring prominently in the AIG crises, and with SIVs, SPEs, and various appendages of the Anglo-American shadow banking system in the Caymans, Channel Islands, etc.

All that is really missing is the equivalent of the Credit Anstalt collapse in order to complete the analogy. A major failure in London or Tokyo, for example, would do nicely.

user-pic

I am also struck by the differences between the current crisis and the Great Depression with the possible common thread being the absence of international leadership.

Mr. Ahamed, Are we suffering from a "vacuum of world leadership"?

What do you make of the argument that what we really need to build is a banking system in which there are few/no banks too big to fail?

thanks,

user-pic

Knowing what not to do is however different from knowing what to do. Until the current crisis I had always assumed that we understood the economy and knew what levers to pull to get it out of a slump. Though I still believe this, I have to admit to having had some doubts.

It occurs to me that both in the Great Depression, and still today, economists and the policy makers they advise still do not understand much at all about how to deal with the individual and mass psychological phenomena that attend a dramatic and catastrophic downturn.

Economists' models of economic activity have been based on highly idealized models of human rationality. They are encouraged to maintain these models because the models are at least somewhat accurate when dealing with very large firms. Large commercial and financial firms have rationalized bureaucracies that make decisions - at least sometimes - based on analytic techniques applied to numbers on spreadsheets.

But the global economy isn't all banks and Fortune 500 companies. It is billions of people, who make their decisions on more rudimentary and primitive methods, hunches and rules of thumb, and are more susceptible to waves of panic, deep collapses of confidence and clarity in the face of very limited information and understanding, and even moral and religious manias.

The chief resource in any economic system is confidence. Yet as vital as the resource is to the system's functioning, it is also both the easiest to dissipate and the hardest to manufacture. I wonder if our leaders will prove any better now than they were in the 30's in restoring confidence once it has been lost.

user-pic

I'm not sure one would point to ill defined moral and religious manias on the part of the canaille, when one can pretty clearly point to large financial institutions engaging in collusive mortgage and securities fraud in order to work their spreadsheets to kleptocratic ends as a root cause of the current crisis.

Sure, the anti-federal tax mania of bible belt denizens, for example, doesn't help the federal government address the problem, but that just means that-- in the name of all that's rational-- these people are owed an explanation when put upon to help mop up the mess.

(This ought to be good).

user-pic

If the Great Depression was a worldwide event, then, it must have been, at bottom, a trade misalignment -- the United States maintaining an excessive trade balance and vendor financing its customers.

If we're going to treat the current crisis as a worldwide event and draw lessons from the former event, then, the analogies have to be correct.

Today, China (and Germany?) look like the United States looked in 1930, and today's United States looks like Germany in 1930.* What should Germany have done in 1930 that it did not do?

* A significantly important difference being that the United States prints the world's reserve fiat currency.

user-pic

Yikes, Ellen!

The second graph in your link is very scary indeed, with global industrial production falling significantly faster than it fell during the first nine months after the Crash in 1929, and likewise with international trade.

Both those graphs are aiming almost straight down!

To summarise: the world is currently undergoing an economic shock every bit as big as the Great Depression shock of 1929-30. Looking just at the US leads one to overlook how alarming the current situation is even in comparison with 1929-30. The good news, of course, is that the policy response is very different. The question now is whether that policy response will work.

So far the answer to that question seems to be no.

Trillions of dollars have been flushed into the system, and the downslope of all significant factors just keeps getting steeper.

What next?


user-pic
Today, China (and Germany?) look like the United States looked in 1930, and today's United States looks like Germany in 1930.* What should Germany have done in 1930 that it did not do?

The current situation is more like the beginning of the Long Depression. Align 1873 with 2000.

China is like Bismarkian Germany - economically dynamic and socially progressive. The United States is similar to Britain in terms of economic condition and to Austria-Hungary in terms of political and social conditions.

user-pic

Interesting thought and some interesting parallels: conservative political classes (Junkers and CCP) both tending toward protectionism or mercantilism.

I see the Long Depression as a 20-year technological hiatus -- "coal and iron" economies slowly transforming themselves into "electrical and chemical" economies.

Maybe that's where we are today -- waiting for the Revolution.

user-pic

An analogous technological transition is going on now. Silicon integrated circuits are the new steel. Computers and communications are the new steamships and railroads. Bits are the new steam. Video, the last great analog signal, is being converted to digital.

China has placed a great emphasis on education and scientific development. With its large population it is well positioned to be a leader in a world economy based on information technology.

user-pic

Conquer the world and become the worlds reserve currency- oh yeah they tried that.

A significantly important difference being that the United States prints the world's reserve fiat currency.

Ellen, you know as well as I do that that's your answer. Get those presses rolling (shhh- it works better if we don't tell everybody thats what we are doing)

The real question is how does the world engineer a new economic system with US consumption no longer the engine.

user-pic

There are so many lessons to be learned from that depression, yet we learned nothing at all. Sadly, we never do.

We must regulate greed, we are not going to eliminate it, so we must regulate it. We need to regulate interest rates first of all, no bank should be charging 21% interest on credit card balances, we need to regulate and implement anti-trust provisions and banks, along with other lending and insurance institutions MUST have capital sufficient enough to cover losses. These are all fixes we can do right now.

user-pic

I'll pick it up tomorrow, hopefully people will read this rather than Amity Shlaes' nonsense.

Leave a comment

Advertisement
Please disable your adblocker!
Ads are how we pay the bills!

Subscribe

The Coffee House
TPMCafe's regulars

House Brew
From Your Cafe Editor

Special Guests
Big names and big brains

Special Features
Pressing topics and trends

Table for One
An expert's week-long talk.

All Reader Posts
TPM readers discuss.

Book Club Calendar

Coming Soon



Nov. 30-Dec. 4



January 12-16



« Book Club ArchiveFull calendar »

Recent Reader Posts

All Reader Posts »





Masthead

Editor-in-Chief
Josh Marshall

Site Editor
Lila Shapiro

Intern
Versha Sharma



Subscribe to TPMCafe's feed.
Subscribe to TPMCafe's reader blog feed.

Advertise Liberally
Share
Close Social Web Email

"To" Email Address

Your Name

Your Email Address