TPMCafe
« On Madonnas And Whores | Home | Moving Cuba Out of America's "Domestic Policy Box" »

Two Sides of the Same Coin

user-pic

The Purity Myth convincingly and rather disturbingly details out how much momentum you can get behind a social movement by invoking people's fear and loathing of female sexuality, particularly young women's sexuality. What's interesting about this movement is that two different arguments have developed from anti-feminists on what specifically makes female sexuality so dangerous, and why it needs to be controlled. I'm going to quickly describe them with the caveat that many conservatives switch seamlessly between these two arguments, depending on their own perceptions of what the audience needs to hear right then. These arguments work together for the final goal of bringing state power to the task of controlling women and punishing independent sexual choices, and aren't really in competition with each other on a functional level.


1) Uncontrolled female sexuality presents a danger to the social order and to masculinity in particular, and so it must be controlled through chastity rules, abortion bans, and social customs bringing women under male control. This is what I'd call the "Old School" argument, and generally speaking, it's still the more popular one on the right. Most images of female independence on the right are those of murderous, castrating women who need to be tamed lest they bring Western civilization to its knees. Pictures of bloody fetuses, fears that emergency contraception will start teenage sex cults, warnings that the HPV vaccination will cause girls to turn into sluts, freakouts about "The Vagina Monologues", and prosecuting teenage girls for sending nudie pictures of themselves to their boyfriends all fall under this banner. They all send the message that female sexuality is violent, scary, and out of control, and that the only solution is to put women under strict control through social stigma for sexual behavior and laws such as abortion and contraception bans.

2) Women don't really have sexual desire to speak of, which means that all the scary manifestations of young female sexuality are just evidence that young women are being misled and perhaps even coerced by predatory men. Therefore, we must control female sexuality for their own protection. If #1 is the malevolent patriarchy, then #2 is known as the benevolent patriarchy. Usually, it's just an attempt to smuggle #1 in by making it seem less misogynist. Sometimes you'll even see the patronizing purity pushers pretend to be feminists under the auspices that they want to make women second class citizens for our own good. Feminists For Life even puts the word "feminist" in their title, even though they straightforwardly argue that women should be forced to bear children against our will, and they seem to think all women want the same thing at all times (to have more babies), and that if a woman has an abortion, it's because someone else made her, and that it's never a freely made choice.

Right now, the right is trying like hell to get everyone to frame their arguments as paternalistic instead of malevolent. The reason for this is that the mainstream media is easily duped, and they'll believe that you're "feminist", so long as you claim that your desire to control women's sexuality is rooted in concern for women. The anti-choice movement is trying to argue for bans on abortion on the theory that abortion is bad for women, because it goes against your natural desire to bring every pregnancy to term, and you'll be cursed with depression and even breast cancer if you do it. The "hook-up culture" panic Jessica describes is another flavor of the same paternalism. Critics argue that young women could not be making a free choice to have casual sex, because it's against our nature, and all we really want (no matter what we say) is to lure some unwilling young man into marriage by withholding the sex until he produces the ring.

The latter is definitely the more dangerous form of anti-feminism, since it's rooted in a faux concern for women. It also creates this tautology where you can't push back against it. Assuring people that your casual sex experiences didn't scar you for life just draws suspicions than you're in denial.

Luckily, Jessica prepares for this eventuality in her book by bringing forward a whole host of statistics to prove that, despite all claims to the contrary, sexual liberation and access to reproductive health care has not damaged young women, who are healthier and happier than ever. Which is, if you put aside the paranoia and think about things realistically, is how it should be. Paternalists like to make a fuss over the emotional dangers of casual sex, but they don't tell you that it's way more emotionally damaging when you're rejected by someone you actually committed to like good girls are supposed to do. They waste a lot of effort promoting unproven claims that abortion causes depression, but they ignore the host of evidence showing that childbirth can cause depression.

The good news is you can often poke a conservative working argument #2 until they crack and reveal argument #1 lurking behind the facade. If you're the sporting type.


30 Comments

| Leave a comment
user-pic

I'll add that both arguments bundle ugly assumptions about men. #1 assumes men are such weaklings that they need women to simper to feel good about themselves. #2 assumes that men are born sexual predators incapable of enjoying a mutually respectful sexual relationship.

user-pic

You can say that again.

Though it's kind of interesting, though not surprising, that men who do think that way have so many allies in prudish anti-feminist women.

Some people are just scared of teh sex.

user-pic

If you think that men are "joining up" with women on this, you've got it backwards. It is, after all, a movement supporting male control and male dominance. Men are the leaders, and even women who take leadership roles make a giant, honking deal about how the answer to men. Most of the churches that are the source of this forbid female leadership. The big wigs in the movement are all men.

It's true you're seeing more women head up organizations with very specific goals, like abstinence-only, abortion bans, etc. But they didn't use to. It's a new innovation, to make plain old misogyny look more female-friendly. Most anti-choice groups in the past had male leadership, until they realized how immoderate that looked to the outside world. But make no mistake---these groups are treated like the ladies' auxiliary of the movement. And even then, many of the men who are the real leaders of the movement don't like seeing women head up anything at all, which is why Concerned Women for America, despite its name, has a male president.

None of this changes what I said about how undignified it is for a man to be a sexist pig. Oppression strips oppressors of their humanity, for sure. But men have a real and obviously troubling choice---join up with the sexist culture and sacrifice your dignity for power, or choose the harder path of feminism.

user-pic

You're absolutely right, my formulation was backwards.

user-pic

Thanks, sorry if I sounded like I was dropping a bag of hammers. I was just info-dumping, because I think the shift in strategies is fascinating, especially when they can't do a good job of it.

user-pic

No hammers, I like information. And I like TPM contributors who take the time to delve into important but sometimes subtle parts of observations and arguments.

user-pic

The president of Concerned Women for America is a man, seriously? *mind boggles*

user-pic

Oh brother. How about the simple idea that guys want to marry women they can trust? It's not complicated.
On the other hand, guys that don't want to get married and just have fun are grateful for liberated woman. Why buy the cow....
This whole discussion is wildly narcissistic. Conservatives are interested in the classic family unit as a building block of conservative society. And, at the root of any successful relationship is trust. That's it, that's all. It's not conceptually difficult.

user-pic

Of course, if you want to marry a woman you can trust, choose a feminist. If your marriage is built on equality and mutual respect, then you are much more likely to have trust. If your marriage is built on dominance, your wife will be forced to resort to lying to you in order to survive interactions with you without stressing herself out too badly.

If your husband is interested in dominance, chastity, and purity, you have a lot to hide, after all. First of all, you'll have a lot of complaints that you'll have to share with female friends behind his back. Then there's the fact that he disapproves of your sexuality! Woo boy. Which means, at minimum, lying about some of the desires and behaviors you've engaged in, and unfortunately it often means that you're going to be strongly tempted to cheat to find out what you missed out on having your sexuality constrained.

If trust is what you want, be a feminist, and marry a feminist who knows who she is and what she wants. Confusion and dissatisfaction is what leads to infidelity, not being too ignorant of sex to know what you want. (That surprisingly never works---people figure it out no matter what horrible things you do to oppress them.) I'd far rather marry someone who had 100 partners and chose me than a virgin, because I'd know that the 100 partner person actually made a choice---he knew what was out there and decided on me. That's the sort of thing that gives you a real sense of trust. The virgin? You know they'd always be wondering what they missed out on.

If you don't believe me, believe the stats. The more liberal the state, the lower the divorce rate. Since I live in a blue oasis in a red state, this doesn't surprise me one bit. Conservative marriages are shot through with tensions that more egalitarian marriages are not. Due to the imbalance of power, there's more secrets, more infidelity (on both sides, often because there's less passion due to aforementioned secrets), less communication, and way more hurrying to the altar before you're really sure this is the one you want.

user-pic
Of course, if you want to marry a woman you can trust, choose a feminist.
This has nothing to do with feminism so far as I can tell unless you really believe this...
Uncontrolled female sexuality presents a danger to the social order and to masculinity in particular,
---------------
I'd far rather marry someone who had 100 partners and chose me than a virgin, because I'd know that the 100 partner person actually made a choice---he knew what was out there and decided on me.
Oh really? From where I sit, that would be choosing someone incapable of a lasting relationship. The virgin on the other hand has the discipline and foresight to retain something she considers valuable.
If you don't believe me, believe the stats. The more liberal the state, the lower the divorce rate. Since I live in a blue oasis in a red state, this doesn't surprise me one bit.
If you refer to the graphic associated with your cite you'll see NY divorce rates are comparable to South Carolina's. You'll also notice that Vermont, Maine, Delaware, and Rhode Island are worse. I'd say that minimizes your argument quite a bit.
Conservative marriages are shot through with tensions that more egalitarian marriages are not.
This is a glittering example of gross generalization drawn from the pages of pulp fiction. Ms. Marcotte, let me suggest that if you have issues with men, marriage, women in marriage, or conservatism, the appropriate response is not to encourage wanton sex. You may have the experience to disassociate yourself from the persons and/or acts in the process of having a good time but most aren't.

These days unwary sex involves a very large risk of disease, pregnancy, and poverty. 16 year olds aren't prepared to live with the consequences of mistakes. It's why taboos are developed.

user-pic

Honestly, the only reason that I'd be worried that someone with 100 partners couldn't keep a lasting relationship is if I personally was so boring and uninspiring that the only way I could imagine attracting a commitment was getting someone who commits not to me, but to commitment. The second I say, "If you leave me to sleep with someone else, you're a slut," is the minute I realize I have nothing to offer that person to make them stay.

People fall in love and stay, you know. But it's true, you have to bring something to the table in order to stand out from the crowd.

user-pic
The second I say, "If you leave me to sleep with someone else, you're a slut," is the minute I realize I have nothing to offer that person to make them stay.

Ms. Marcotte, this is wrong. You can't make anyone stay. Worse, expecting to be so vibrant and endearing that the partner is bound to stay is just exhausting and probably fraudulent.

If someone has 100 partners, it is demonstrated without doubt that their pleasure is more important than any relationship, and there is nothing you can do about it.

user-pic

Worse, expecting to be so vibrant and endearing that the partner is bound to stay is just exhausting and probably fraudulent.

Heck yeah, keep 'em stupid, barefoot and pregnant, so they have no choice but to stay with you! That's a far better solution.

user-pic

This completely fits in with what Jessica talks about in her book - that the so-called 'virginity movement' makes 'pleasure' into a dirty word, something people aren't supposed to have - and definitely not supposed to have too much of. Dangerous.

user-pic

I'm not saying that. I just want someone to be with me because they are in love with me, not because they committed to an institution, and because they have a moral problem with switching sex partners. I had a friend say to me once that the day her husband said that he's bored with her or sick of her, she'll be out the door before he finishes the sentence. They've been together for roughly forever, so indeed it's possible to be with someone because you love them, not because you're entranced by a bunch of rules restricting your behavior.

user-pic

Also, if your sex life isn't wanton, I'm sorry. Pretending that means I have problems isn't going to change anything. There are simple ways to spice things up.

user-pic

Very well said. And that link is also really interesting! I know I'm bringing an entirely different culture and religion into it now, but why do you think that that's true - that the more liberal states have the lower divorce rates - while the comparatively more liberal America has a higher divorce rate than socially conservative India? (This is a favorite argument of my dad's when discussing arranged marriage.)

I always assumed that India had a lower divorce rate because divorce is still so taboo in Indian culture - for Hindus and Muslims, who make up the majority of the country - so even if a husband and/or wife are extremely unhappy in their marriage, they're still less likely to divorce (societal pressure, and I'm sure even interference from the government, especially at the local level, sometimes happens). But it was always just a logical assumption on my part, one that I would think could apply to Christians (especially Catholics) - and yet, we have this article that says they divorce more! I know I'm getting off topic here, just wondering what others think!

user-pic

That's probably why. In the red states of America, they are in this place where they do think you should marry younger and keep your "number" lower, but there's not a huge stigma attached to divorce. So there's a lot of pressure to get into marriage and put up a front of "purity", but once the marriage goes south, people will, out of frustration, choose themselves over the rules.

user-pic

As an explanation of actual social attitudes, this seems inadequate, shooter. Presumably women also want to marry men they can trust. But while there is a contemporary "virginity movement" for boys as well as girls, the former seems nowhere near as widespread and popular as the latter. If the idealization of virginity is simply a manifestation of the quest for trustworthy partners for marriage, why hasn't it taken hold among both genders? Clearly there are other factors at work.

user-pic

Good point!

user-pic

Good god man, you do realize Women are not comic books, right? They don't lose value if you fail to store them in Mylar bags.

user-pic

Shooter242:

Why buy the cow....

The "cow" is not for sale.

user-pic

.

An individual's right . . .

. . . to their personal pursuit of happiness is their business . . . And their personal business alone.

The following, although about gay marriage rights, is just as meaningful to the subject at hand.

Senate Majority Leader Mike Gronstal of Iowa on the floor of the Iowa Senate, April 6, 2008:

One of my daughters was in the workplace one day, and her particular workplace at that moment in time, there were a whole bunch of conservative, older men. And those guys were talking about gay marriage. They were talking about discussions going on across the country.

And my daughter Kate, after listening for about 20 minutes, said to them: You guys dont understand. You've already lost. My generation doesnt care.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y2s2R5qKhbo

I'm 60 and I care. I care that women can tell all paternalistic authoritarians that it's none of their business.

And young people like Mike Gronstal's daughter says it best.

~OGD~

user-pic

That was a really beautiful video! Thank you so much for linking. (And, of course, I completely agree.)

user-pic

Hey Shooter:

I don't think someone who is "pure" is going to be more trustworthy, chances are they are very repressed, at some point they are going to try to make up for lost time. I would guess the divorce rate amongst people who marry young is much higher partially for that reason.

user-pic

A lot of the traditional insistence of female virginity, "purity" etc and even keeping women under lock and key in purdah in some countries is really more about property inheritance than anything else. In countries where houses, businesses and land are handed down from father to son it is vital for fathers to be sure who their sons are.

Maybe with DNA testing people will loosen up a bit.

user-pic

Or maybe this whole "fathers needing to be sure who their sons are" needs to go away. I mean, people adopt children all the time, or marry second and third spouses who have their own children, and leave their estates to children who they are not related to by blood. Do we really need to keep medieval strictures like that in place? I know it matters to some of the people who post here, who are concerned about loose women "cuckolding" their husbands with various "paramours" and forcing those husbands to - gasp - provide material support for children FROM ANOTHER MAN'S SPERM!!!! but hopefully we've gone beyond that in this society.

user-pic

Anybody who takes shooter242's relationship advice is nuts, unless you are looking for life-long happiness with an unsullied bag of Cheetos.

Shooter, what the hell would you know about women?
You don't know a damned thing about people, and have been consistently wrong about everything you have posted on for several years.

Please go back to the kind of erotic experience you are most familiar with, sucking Cheney's dick, okay?

user-pic

Good homosexual mockery there. You really showed him -- implied he is gay!

user-pic

Amanda, just wanted to say that I really enjoyed the post - especially your addendum at the end via comment about the ugly assumptions made about men. Thanks for this, I look forward to reading more from you!

Leave a comment

Advertisement
Please disable your adblocker!
Ads are how we pay the bills!

Subscribe

The Coffee House
TPMCafe's regulars

House Brew
From Your Cafe Editor

Special Guests
Big names and big brains

Special Features
Pressing topics and trends

Table for One
An expert's week-long talk.

All Reader Posts
TPM readers discuss.

Book Club Calendar

November 16-20

http://orbooks.com/files/going-rouge-small.jpg

Coming Soon



November 30-December 4



January 12-16



« Book Club ArchiveFull calendar »

Recent Reader Posts

All Reader Posts »





Masthead

Editor-in-Chief
Josh Marshall

Site Editor
Lila Shapiro

Intern
Kyle Krahel-Frolander



Subscribe to TPMCafe's feed.
Subscribe to TPMCafe's reader blog feed.

Advertise Liberally
Share
Close Social Web Email

"To" Email Address

Your Name

Your Email Address