Israeli Soldiers Tell of Gaza War Crimes ++ Israeli Extremist Calls For Murder in NY Synagogue
The Israeli army now says it will investigate the killing of innocent civilians in Gaza under so-called "permissive rules of engagement."
Pretty incredible stuff.
The other big news is this. In response to the government's failure to achieve the release of the captured soldier, Gilad Shalit, Israel has decided to go the "collective punishment" route. After the jump are stories from today's Israeli press.
*ISRAELI GOVERNMENT TARGETS HAMAS SUMMER CAMPS
Ma'ariv (p. 4) by Maya Bengal and Dorit Gabai -- After the failure of
negotiations to release Gilad Shalit, Israel continues to search for
ways to apply pressure on Hamas to reach a deal. One of the
possibilities being looked into is worsening the relatively good
conditions in which Hamas and Islamic Jihad security prisoners are held
and rendering these equivalent to Gilad Shalit's conditions.
Yesterday, the ministerial committee for the evaluation of security
prisoner conditions headed by Minister Daniel Friedmann convened for the
first time. Members in the committee are Meir Shetrit, Haim Ramon, Rafi
Eitan, as well as also Attorney General Meni Mazuz.
The ministers heard a briefing on the rights and privileges granted
the security prisoners in Israeli jails. The committee appointed a
special staff, headed by a representative of the attorney general and
composed of representatives of Prisons Service, the GSS and the IDF,
charged with inquiring how it would be possible, in accordance with
international law, to limit the money being transferred to prisoners for
personal use, their ability to watch television, listen to radio,
receive newspapers and make phone calls. The staff will also inquire how
it would be possible to prevent prisoners from receiving family or Red
Cross visitations, limit their ability to acquire an education and
isolate them so that they not enjoy physical contact with visitors. The
committee is expected to conclude its work in two weeks, and already in
the course of this time period, will authorize the implementation of the
sanctions.
The committee raised a proposal to limit the transfer of goods
through Gaza's crossings but not in such a way that would cause a
humanitarian crisis. Two weeks ago, in the course of her visit in the
region, Secretary of State Hillary Clinton requested that Israel allow
the crossings to be open more frequently for humanitarian purposes. As
of this moment it appears that not only will Israel not expand the
transfer of goods, it may even reduce it further.
The idea of collective punishment of security prisoners gained
momentum only after the failure of the talks aimed at releasing Shalit,
however it appears that there were such initiatives in the past.
Minister Yaakov Edri made such a proposal in the past, MK Aryeh Eldad
introduced a bill on the matter and even Defense Minister Ehud Barak
approached the attorney general and asked him to look into whether it
would be possible to limit the family visits of Hamas prisoners. Of all
these initiatives, nothing concrete ever emerged, however this time the
situation is different and the chances of limiting the privileges of
security prisoner appears far greater.
West Bank arrests: The IDF and GSS arrested before dawn this morning
20 Hamas people in the West Bank, mainly Nablus and Ramallah, including
ten political figures of various ranks: Nasser a-Din Shayer who was
deputy prime minister and three Hamas MPs from the Palestinian
Legislative Council. The security establishment is not releasing the
names of the others arrested. Security sources said these people made up
the Hamas leadership in Judea and Samaria and at this time were working
at rebuilding its organization in the West Bank.
Hamas considers these arrests to be Israel's response to the failure
of the Gilad Shalit deal and an attempt to get Hamas to be more
flexible. Mushir el-Masri, in a press conference in Gaza, said this
morning that this wouldn't help. He said that this was a desperate act
of extortion. He said that past experience showed that kidnapping Hamas
MPs and oppressing Palestinian prisoners never got Hamas to change its
positions. (Israel state radio)
Also, check this out, a crackpot (by our standards) but a prominent rightwing spokesman in Israel calls for wiping out Palestinians and specifically killing Abbas at a New York synagogue.last night. It's at 3:10 or so. Note the applause.
The virtual global silence that has followed the wanton killing of more than 400 defenceless children, plus hundreds of women and civilian men in Gaza, is deafening! I have tried to come up with a logical explanation of why democratic nations such as Britain, France, Germany, Spain, the EU,Canada and Australia can possibly ignore this atrocity and continue to supply Israel with yet more arms and munitions with which to kill yet more innocent men, women and children - but I have failed. For there is no answer other than an extraordinary facility of nation states to become voluntarily unseeing.
That is how history has documented the previous dehumanizing of a whole people prior to the atrocities that in the case of Gaza, and Lebanon, were carried out in the clear view of a world that strangely became blind to the blood and the cries of the dying. There is no explanation and no words to describe how this can happen in the 21st century - no words.
The Israeli ministers responsible are still at large and should be arrested on charges of war crimes.
March 19, 2009 10:48 AM | Reply | Permalink
Strange, isn't it, how the major western powers all get weak kneed when it comes to confronting Israel. The US gives Israel little slaps on the wrists. The latest is Clinton's statement about the settlements as "unhelpful." This is a change from "illegal" and "an obstacle to peace". I've come to the conclusion that the settler movement and their political supporters both in Israel and the west have the western powers by the balls when it comes to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Move in the wrong direction and they will squeeze hard. Does Obama have the balls of steel to persevere through all of the squeezing his balls will endure when he makes any significant moves toward peace in the middle east?
March 19, 2009 11:08 AM | Reply | Permalink
The Gaza offensive was not ignored in my country, Canada. There were protests and offers of asylum for people of Gaza (if Israel would allow emigration). There were articles urging Boycott/Sanction/Divest. We have a right wing minority PM but his views do not reflect the views of the majority of Canadian people.
March 19, 2009 1:39 PM | Reply | Permalink
Sigh.
I suppose there's collective punishment and there's collective punishments.Those don't sound as if they're ( I just found myself about to write "beyond the pale"-I've never looked into its derivation so I'd better do that before using it again) extreme.
In any event the objections to collective punishment seem unrealistic if not hypocritical. It's had a permanent role in warfare - Michael Walzer begins Just and Unjust Wars with a case from the Athenian wars- Barbara Tuchman ditto with the Guns of August as well as pointing out that Clausewitz clearly recommended its use. And in its modern implementation is often hard to distinguish from "victor's justice". Oradour and Lidice were collective punishments but not Hiroshima? .
And I respect and appove of Israel's willingness to disregard the accepted wisdom when trying to free its imprisoned soldiers like Gilad Shalit.
So ,for me,it's not a crime. But it is a blunder.
For a whole hatfull of reasons:
o it's a start down a slippery slope, when these cp's don't work , then what?
o isn't there as much chance that Hamas will respond by treating Shalit worse as that they'll improve his treatment?
o don't you push all Israeli society in the direction of less humane values?
And of course there's the boring image problem- why provide another stick for Israel's critics to beat it with? By that I don't mean its Arab critics- the sun comes up, they criticize Israel- I mean the Mearshimers who at least in some cases, mamy really, are people of good will who believe that Israel too often does the wrong thing.
Sad.
March 19, 2009 10:49 AM | Reply | Permalink
FYI Pale was some dominion around Dublin that the English had and if you went out of it, you could be in deep doo-doo because the Irish might not react well upon seeing your usurptive, colonialist ass out there unprotected.
March 19, 2009 10:58 AM | Reply | Permalink
Overreach, FYI the word "pale" refers to an area just outside of Moscow that was set aside for Jews under the Tsar (Peter I believe) - You are right, that they were not allowed to live "Beyond the Pale" and later, this was where most of the progrom raids were conducted.
There is a literary reference to this in Malamud's "The Fixer" but I suspect it's also on the internet somewhere.
March 19, 2009 8:57 PM | Reply | Permalink
Just sort of moderate collective punishment, eh?
March 19, 2009 4:05 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yeah. I recognize your ironical intent. But taking you at face value,I agree.
March 19, 2009 8:12 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hey, thanks for educating us!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pale
Wikipedia treats "pale" more as a generic noun, describing what you you said and what I said. Didn't know about the Moscow Pale; the "English Pale" of Dublin (or "Irish Pale," like I said) came earlier than yours and the expression "beyond the Pale" predates the Moscow Pale, many claim.
See, e.g., http://www.takeourword.com/Issue049.html
"A pale is a wooden stake or a fence made from such wooden stakes. The word comes from Latin palus "stake" by way of French pal. The fence meaning dates from the early 14th century. By the turn of the 15th century we find pale being used in a figurative sense, such as to break or leap the pale meaning "to go beyond (certain) limits in one's actions or thinking". This was influenced by the term English Pale, which referred to a territory under English jurisdiction within another land. There were districts in France, Scotland, and most importantly in this discussion, Ireland, which were known as the English Pale. That area in Ireland, which existed in the 14th century, was also known more simply as the Pale. To go beyond the pale was to venture outside of English law (and safety).
We also hear of pales with respect to certain districts and provinces where Jews in Russia were required to live between 1791 and 1917. This usage is a translation of chert' os'dlosti [or] 'pale (boundary) of settlement'."
March 20, 2009 3:08 AM | Reply | Permalink
"It's had a permanent role in warfare - Michael Walzer begins Just and Unjust Wars with a case from the Athenian wars- Barbara Tuchman ditto with the Guns of August as well as pointing out that Clausewitz clearly recommended its use. And in its modern implementation is often hard to distinguish from "victor's justice". Oradour and Lidice were collective punishments but not Hiroshima? "
Those are all considered to be atrocities, even Hiroshima. People who defend the bombing of Hiroshima sometimes try and argue that Hiroshima was a legitimate military target because there was an army base there (William Manchester used this argument in "The Glory and the Dream"). More commonly, people argue that all the alternatives would have caused even more deaths.
The problem with defending Hiroshima is that if you do that, then you don't have a good argument against suicide bombing as a tactic--the only question becomes "Will it work?" So if we're all going to stop being hypocrites and learn to love collective punishment, then we've also got to stop talking about terrorism as a tactic beyond the pale, because we all do it.
I prefer acknowledging that everyone does it, that we're all hypocrites, while still clinging to the idea that it'd be better if we didn't do it.
March 19, 2009 10:13 PM | Reply | Permalink
Is there nothing that can be done to restore political freedom to Palestine?
As time goes on, I'm beginning to think we have lost far more of our own freedom than we realize.
The drum beat of war sounds louding in Israel:
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1071327.html
16/03/2009
Ready to take the risk
By Amir Oren; see also:
Study: Israel may attack Iran nuclear sites with ballistic missiles
By Reuters, 18/03/09
We know that war costs trillions.
A MILLION SECONDS IS 11 DAYS
A billion seconds is 32 years.
A trillion seconds is 32,000 years.
We fund Israel's wars:
The Ultimate Earmark U.S. Military Aid to Israel By KATHLEEN and BILL CHRISTISON
http://www.counterpunch.org/christison03052009.html
"The United States and Israel signed a Memorandum of Understanding in August 2007 committing the U.S. to give Israel $30 billion in military aid over the next decade. This is grant aid, given in cash at the start of each fiscal year. The only stipulation imposed on Israel’s use of this cash gift is that it spend 74 per cent to purchase U.S. military goods and services.
"Does Cheney Want a Terror Attack on America? Why is the administration not allowing Sen. Leahy to begin those hearings on Bush 43's responsibility for virtually all our nation's problems? They act like a fifth column. And attention needs paying. Is accountability nonexistent in this country?
Why?
You folks are fast; I've only had time to skim what you said.
I see the Hasbara league is on site already.
Sad,Flavius? "It's had a permanent role in warfare." Same old, same old. Nothing to see here, folks, move along. By tomorrow the blood will be all gone.
Oh, by the way, Iran: too bad, so sad.
It's as if our world is ready to go up in flames from the concentrated energy from people who want more; more. More safety!
Right. More guns, more land, more water; oil? Bullets and guns and tanks and planes and helicopters, all that stuff, costs someone money, makes someone profit. Materiel, the matter of Heller's Catch 22
Who is accountable? To whom is the money being spent on war going right now, while we are busy watching the economy melt around us?
March 19, 2009 11:30 AM | Reply | Permalink
...don't you push all Israeli society in the direction of less humane values?
That is at least the second time that I've been threatened like that. (Pardon me while I take this personally.)
How about Israeli acting like a non-belligerant, standing down and trying to get along for a change?
Doesn't it sound like that would be more efficacious in terms of peace and prosperity for all of us?
What does Israel want?
March 19, 2009 11:34 AM | Reply | Permalink
1. more land
2. less arabs
March 19, 2009 11:40 AM | Reply | Permalink
I seem to be repeating BluePearl:
"Not a day goes by that someone on the Israeli media advocates an attack on Iran. "Should we do it now. Should we wait. Is it time yet?"
With the world economy disintegrating before our eyes, Netanyahu declares that it is not the economy but Iran that is the greatest, the baddest danger in the whole galaxy."
We are a lobby, BluePearl, aren't we! Now if only we could get funding against war. Perhaps Mr. Kerry would be interested?
March 19, 2009 11:58 AM | Reply | Permalink
It's all just a PR problem MJ
Nothing a little more Lobby lucre can't cure
March 19, 2009 1:43 PM | Reply | Permalink
What we don't get out of the Lobby Occupied US government and most of th US media, we have to get from Ha'aretz
Like we don't hear this from the Israel Lobby and its minions already!
March 19, 2009 1:47 PM | Reply | Permalink
None of this is new to the informed among us.
In fact there are plenty of places to read all about it and much worse.
Now where are all the people who like to argue that the msm in this country doesn't sensor any criticism of israel?
March 19, 2009 2:40 PM | Reply | Permalink
Israel proper has a population of 5.5 million Jews and 1.5 million Israeli Arabs. Gaza has a population of 1.4 million Palestinians. After the Gaza war, 1400 Palestinians died and 13 Israeli Jews died. How many human being are left?
a. 5.5 million minus 13
b. 1.4 million minus 1400
c. 7.0 million minus 13
d. 8.4 million minus 1413
March 19, 2009 4:57 PM | Reply | Permalink
The Amnesty International Annual Report for 2008 states:
It appears there are some 900 Palestinian Shalits
March 19, 2009 5:30 PM | Reply | Permalink
"Sad"
flavius
Oh please! When Zionists started the organised theft of land through terror tactics culminating in the establishment of Israel:
http://lawrenceofcyberia.blogs.com/news/2009/01/a-land-without-a-people.html
It was not hard to predict, and was steadily and accurately predicted, what the end would be. It wasn't as if this type of thing hadn't been tried before, And there was no magic Zionist or Jewish way to accomplish it without harm.
Shoot and kvetch and nothing is ever Israel's fault. It's always somebody making them do something. They seem to be the most helpless state in the world, but somehow their expansionist aims go on steadily being fulfilled.
March 19, 2009 6:46 PM | Reply | Permalink
The Israelis like the Palestinians and the 1930 Germans contain the usual distribution of personality types. And the effect of war is to brutalize all of them so more and more of them do, or at least approve of, bad things.
There's nothing in the genetic pool of either people that causes them to behave horrbly to one another. They're at War so they do what people at war do. Not because of something in Zionism or Islamism but because they're at War. And they'll keep on acting this way until they cease being at war. Which is probably never.
March 19, 2009 8:09 PM | Reply | Permalink
BTW, the "extremeist" calling for murder in the NY synagogue? First of all, what the hell is so extreme about that posuition for a Zionist, that they said it in front of a camera and microphone?
Second, I keep on telling you; the effect of Zionism (speaking about it, thinking about it, cause they sure as hell ain't makin Aliyah)
has the same effects, psychological and even physiological as cocaine abuse. If you have ever had the dubious pleasure of noting its progress, it's easy to see: Grandiosity and paranoia, excitement, sweating, and a steady erosion of emotional stability and maturity, leading eventually to complete sociopathy.
And they wake up the next day and have forgotten everything they said last night, and they are ready for another go-round.
Ask yourself, would they, could they reason and talk about anything else this way? "Kill them!"
March 19, 2009 6:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
Israel should just declared Shalit dead, have a big public memorial service, with lots of Zionist ideal martyrdom posters (take a page from Hamas), and move on to whatever it is it wants to do, and announce that all Israeli POWs will henceforth be considered KIAs.
If you're going to rule by force, you can't just kill Palestinian kids and then go all weak in the knees about your own. Sorry, Gilead was a weak soldier who didn't go down swinging, like the guys at the Alamo, or the Japanese, or the Jews of Masada. Would Hamas give anything up to save a bomber who had failed to trigger his vest?
Making such a big deal about him heightens his value to his captors, and encourages them in their long-term strategy, which is to terrorize the Jews enough to make them all move to LA. If Israelis show that they are willing to match the callousness of Hamas, then they have a fighting chance at negotiating a lasting peace. But the half-assed way they go about it, enabling trigger-happy kids in Gaza and then trying to appease the Israeli left by bringing Shalit home, ensures their doom. You can't have it both ways.
March 19, 2009 8:56 PM | Reply | Permalink
The allegation/ admission of a sniper killing a mother and children at close range whom Israeli troops had told to leave their home and the "cold blooded murder" of a Palestinian woman – are just the tip of an iceberg of sickening brutality, reminiscent of the Nazi SS in Hitler’s Europe. Hundreds of civilians, men, women and children, were murdered by the IDF in Gaza, in January – while the world’s press was gagged by the Israeli government. When will the perpetrators of this war crime be arrested and brought before the International Criminal Court? The names of those responsible are known.
March 20, 2009 3:00 AM | Reply | Permalink
There is little difference between the killing of defenceless women and children in occupied Palestine in January 2009, as there was in occupied Poland in January 1942.
The essence is exactly the same: satisfy the animal pack urge to kill having first ensured that your hapless victims pose you no threat. Then, (stepping over the bodies) spread the Big Lie: “We are the most moral army in the world”. Exit stage right, laughing.
March 20, 2009 4:53 AM | Reply | Permalink
I just got back from Israel. Thought I'd share this conversation that I had with a restaurant owner (paraphrased).
She indicated that IDF did not do ENOUGH in Gaza. Then ranted on about Shalit for some time (this conversation took place on the last day Olmert was "negotiating" in Cairo for Shalit's release). She - generously - indicated that war is a "bad thing, bad for everyone, bad for us, bad for them." She added that "they" (presumably, Gazans) are "miskenim" (loosely, poor things, miserable) "maod miskenim" (very miserable, pitiable). Then she added, "but they are different from us, they don't value life like we do, they don't care if people get killed."
I couldn't really carry on this conversation any further. How can you make sense of someone that thinks that "they" don't value life when they hold just ONE prisoner in exchange for (requested) 450 Palestinian prisoners? And how does this great Israeli sanctity of life manifest itself when over a thousand die in exchange for 13 Israelis?
How does ANYONE buy into this mythology? Arabs don't value life? Puh-leeze.
March 20, 2009 10:17 AM | Reply | Permalink
>How does ANYONE buy into this mythology? Arabs don't value life? Puh-leeze.
That is the root of the matter. The dehumanization of a people, in this case, Arabs, (in 1933, Jews) in order that 18 year old soldiers can snuff out life without remorse or compunction because 'they' are not human like 'us'. 'They' don't live, eat, marry and defecate, like 'us'. It happened in Europe, it happened in Rwanda, in the Congo, in Lebanon and it happened in Gaza just a few weeks ago. But apparently nobody noticed because the war crime was not documented by the media, who had been banned by government decree.
What now? More multi-dollar arms exports to ensure more killings? Naively, the world thought that Obama would stop the destabilization of the Middle East with its consequent danger to the world. But no! Business as usual, although if you look very closely, things are not quite the same as last year and a shift in the paradigm is already taking place. But to many, as yet it's invisible.
March 20, 2009 11:39 AM | Reply | Permalink
McClatchy
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/homepage/story/64518.html
March 20, 2009 7:35 PM | Reply | Permalink