Middlebury Grad ('08) Loses Two Brothers in Gaza
The more I hear about the Gaza war, the worse it gets. And the story is pretty much out of the news. The dead are dead, and we all move on to something else.
But some people can't just move on like Amer Shurrab from Arlington, Virginia, for instance. Amer, who graduated from Middlebury in December and is a graduate of the Seeds of Peace program in Maine, which brings Israeli and Palestinian kids together for the summer, lost two brothers in the Gaza war. Their deaths were entirely unnecessary; even after they were shot, they could easily have been saved if the IDF had any interest in saving them. But they didn't and they died. Two brothers, 18 and 28.
I truly can't comment on this other than to urge TPMers to watch this interview. It is literally sickening.
Also, see Jimmy Carter's aide, Robert Pastor, on how war could have been avoided.
This tragedy apparently happened two weeks ago, before the "ceasefire." Rockets are being fired on Israel from Gaza again now. Israel's slaughter of hundreds of Gazan children accomplished nothing except to give Hamas a slightly better excuse for its idiocy.
Shame on AIPAC for lacking one iota of shame.
Shame on the US Congress for not standing up to the anti-American AIPAC
February 2, 2009 5:34 PM | Reply | Permalink
These stories are indeed sickening. I think they reflect on something that most American Jews have not acknowledged. The something is that the people of Israel are different from civilized people living in Europe and the US. There is a savagery among Israeli Jews that we usually associate with third world and Moslem societies. Israel is beginning to mirror its enemies. The widespread racism and dehumanization of Israel's enemies makes it very easy for those Israeli soldiers to watch for hours while the wounded Palestinian slowly bled to death. Perhaps continuous war will do that to a people. It is understandable but does the US really wish to maintain its military alliance with such a savage creature?
February 2, 2009 6:55 PM | Reply | Permalink
Israel has been at war for 60 years.
The video is tragic and speaks for itself. As for the broader point or Israeli "savagery," have you considered the number of civilian casualties inflicted by the United States and NATO in Afghanistan, a war which our benevolent, peace-loving President has promised to escalate? Some have estimated the toll at more than 20,000. By your standard, we are a nation of savages.
See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civilian_casualties_of_the_War_in_Afghanistan_(2001%E2%80%93present)
February 2, 2009 8:12 PM | Reply | Permalink
I have protested US wars against Iraq and Afghanistan. Yes there is a savagery implicit in US foreign and military policy especially with its reliance of aerial bombardments.
But the story here is something different. It is not impersonal, it has human to human contact. American troops would not sit back and watch a wounded enemy bleed out over 20 hours without offering help. If this did happen, we would be seeing court marshals. The Israelis will protect these soldiers.
February 2, 2009 8:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
We don't really know enough about the situation to speculate as to what American troops would or wouldn't do, nor do we know what conditions the Israelis were operating under. It does seem particularly senseless, gratuitous even. My point was simply that war is indeed barbaric and inhumane, and while witnessing its cruelty is necessary, I am hesitant to use it as a window into a nation's soul - if such a thing exists.
February 2, 2009 9:22 PM | Reply | Permalink
We don't really know enough about the situation to speculate ...
Since the IDF blocked the entry of Western news groups into Gaza, we are left with trying to put together the story with those who were there on the ground. And since we have abundant evidence that the IDF propaganda units will, how should this be stated delicately, lie then we are left with the observers on the ground.
February 2, 2009 10:54 PM | Reply | Permalink
What does it matter what American troops would do?
February 2, 2009 11:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
He'll get back to you when the talking points are updated for follow up answers.
February 3, 2009 4:08 AM | Reply | Permalink
Yes, when it's the only argument you've got. On Jews Without Borders, the blogger calls this argument, the "everyone sucks" argument.
Problem is, if we have no moral right to criticize Israel because of our treatment of African slaves and Native Americans, we have no moral right to criticize the terrorists, either. D'uh!
February 3, 2009 9:36 AM | Reply | Permalink
However true "everyone sucks" might be, that's not the point. Every war produces tragic stories like this one - and make no mistake, it is heartbreaking and harrowing. One may therefore take the entirely fair and justifiable position that war itself is unjustifiable in all circumstances. If someone supports some wars, however, then he or she must accept that tragedies like this family's are an almost inevitable consequence. Where were the voices speaking out in outrage over the massive civilian casualties in Afghanistan? Where were the denunciations of the rot at the core of America's soul? However one feels about the for war, I am wary of drawing moral conclusions as to the superiority of one side or another based upon a single incident. In all of the ritual denunciations of Israel I read here regularly, it is disheartening to say the least that so few seem willing to ask why does Hamas choose war to achieve their aims? Why do they continue to fire rockets into Israel? What have they brought to their people other than more misery? These questions are as necessary as those directed at Israel. They are particularly relevant as their leaders inevitably trumpet their glorious victory. Perhaps someone should ask this poor young man who just lost his brothers.
February 3, 2009 4:56 PM | Reply | Permalink
I made the point that our own government is responsible for exponentially greater civilian casualties in a war that most of us supported in Afghanistan. Syvanen replied that he in fact protested Afghanistan and American troops would never sit back and watch someone bleed for 20 hours. I was responding to this comment. I would agree that speculating as to what American troops would do in the same situation is irrelevant.
February 3, 2009 4:34 PM | Reply | Permalink
"The something is that the people of Israel are different from civilized people living in Europe and the US. There is a savagery among Israeli Jews..."
Pretty sick statement and shows how clueless you really are as to who and what Israelis are.
There is no more savagry among Israelis than there is among Americans or Arabs or Europeans.
Is there savagry among Israelis, sure, just as there is among Americans, Arabs, Europeans etc.
That you only see the savagery among Israelis and single them out as different than the rest of the world says nothing of the truth about Israelis but does show something about you.
February 3, 2009 8:57 AM | Reply | Permalink
I think there has been a change inside Israel that her defenders in the US are blind to. Here is another anecdote. Neve Gordon described Israeli fans at soccor match that was held right after the Gaza slaughter. They chanted "Why are the Gazan schools closed" and answered in great merriment "Because we killed the children".
This is not something that would happen in the US. Outside of few rightwing sicko blogs we have not seen public displays celebrating the slaughter of our enemies in Iraq and Afghanistan and certainly not their children.
February 3, 2009 5:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
I am going to meet Martin Indyk tomorrow. If only I were paid a dollar for every time he says, "Israel needs a peace partner," I bet I could retire rich.
February 3, 2009 9:41 AM | Reply | Permalink
This must-read article about a study examining "the popular collective memory of Israeli Jews" and it's distorted versions of reality helps to explain the phenomenon of overwhelming support for and indifference to Israeli brutality in Gaza:
"A new study of Jewish Israelis shows that most accept the 'official version' of the history of the conflict with the Palestinians. Is it any wonder, then, that the same public also buys the establishment explanation of the operation in Gaza?
A pioneering research study dealing with Israeli Jews' memory of the conflict with the Arabs, from its inception to the present, came into the world together with the war in Gaza. The sweeping support for Operation Cast Lead confirmed the main diagnosis that arises from the study, conducted by Daniel Bar-Tal, one of the world's leading political psychologists, and Rafi Nets-Zehngut, a doctoral student: Israeli Jews' consciousness is characterized by a sense of victimization, a siege mentality, blind patriotism, belligerence, self-righteousness, dehumanization of the Palestinians and insensitivity to their suffering. The fighting in Gaza dashed the little hope Bar-Tal had left - that this public would exchange the drums of war for the cooing of doves."
........
"In a telephone interview from New York, Nets-Zehngut says it is very clear that those with a "Zionist memory" see Israel and the Jews as the victims in the conflict, and do not tend to support agreements or compromises with the enemy in order to achieve peace. This finding, he explains, demonstrates the importance of changing the collective memory of conflicts, making it less biased and more objective - on condition, of course, that there is a factual basis for such a change."
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1060061.html
Those afflicted with a "Zionist memory" are certainly not limited to Israelis. This study does help to explain the stubborn refusal to face facts in favor of holding hard to demonizing mythologies that perpetuate bogus and damaging narratives.
February 2, 2009 8:19 PM | Reply | Permalink
This is indeed a fascinating article. One part you left out:
"However, his study shows that a larger percentage of the Jewish population in Israel believes that in 1948, the refugees were expelled (47.2 percent of respondents), than those who still retain the old Zionist version (40.8 percent), according to which the refugees left on their own initiative. On this point, not only do almost all the history books provide up-to-date information, but some local school textbooks do as well. Even on the television program "Tekuma" ("Rebirth," a 1998 documentary series about Israel's first 50 years), the expulsion of the Arabs was mentioned.
Nets-Zehngut also finds a degree of self-criticism in the answers relating to the question of overall responsibility for the conflict. Of those surveyed, 46 percent think that the responsibility is more or less evenly divided between Jews and Arabs, 4.3 percent think that the Jews are mainly to blame, and 43 percent think that the Arabs and the Palestinians are mainly to blame for the outbreak and continuation of the conflict. It turns out, therefore, that when the country's education system and media are willing to deal with distorted narratives, even a collective memory that has been etched into people's minds for years can be changed.
Bar-Tal says he takes no comfort in the knowledge that Palestinian collective memory suffers from similar ills, and that it is also in need of a profound change - a change that would help future generations on both sides to regard one another in a more balanced, and mainly a more humane manner. This process took many decades for the French and the Germans, and for the Protestants and the Catholics in Northern Ireland. When will it finally begin here, too?"
February 2, 2009 9:37 PM | Reply | Permalink
A strange thing happened to many Jews living in Israel. They got a country but lost their soul.
Zionism as it is has really got nothing to do with the true Jewish religion. All true religions deal with the spirit of human beings. One of those manifestations of spirit is in the dialogue of "I and Thou".
Martin Buber was a proponent of a bi-national state instead of a two-state solution. Buber preferred a cultural Zionism with the goal of social and spiritual fulfillment.
Zionism as it is currently practiced is a picture that has morphed into a satanic colonial enterprise. Encircling this picture is a frame of Superman militarism.
Obama needs to bitch-slap Israel so that it comes to its senses.
February 2, 2009 9:13 PM | Reply | Permalink
No, no , no. The abyss calls out to the abyss.
Peoples at War find reasons to cease seeing the other side as just another version of themselves.
Joe Lunchpail whether in Tel Aviv, Ramallah or Dubuque is much the same. Mostly a nice guy who ,when he's at war, so loses sight of the humanity of his opponent that he can cheer 9-11,Hiroshima or a strike on Kahn Unis. That doesn't make him a bad guy. Just normal.
And normally enough Joe believes , like Ariel Sharon, if you hit them hard enough they'll give in..
Which is right. And wrong.
An intelligent tactic and a dumb strategy. In Gaza it caused Hamas to stop firing missiles (intelligent tactic)but will probably recruit another 1000 suicide bombers(dumb strategy)
Behavioral psychologists (and most mothers) know you can use an aversive -like hitting them hard-to eradicate a bad behavior but you have to use rewards to create new good ones.
It wasn't only Arafat who missed an opportunity at Taba. We didn't have the imagination to add goodies that would have made the Taba proposal an offer he couldn't refuse.
February 2, 2009 10:45 PM | Reply | Permalink
Oh, I "left out" lots of parts.
I would venture a guess that the findings on responsibility for the conflict I/P conflict are more balanced among Israelis than they are among Americans.
For instance, a recent Ipsos/McClatchy poll revealed that 53% of the respondents did not differentiate between Hamas and Palestinians. I believe the number of those who did differentiate was 35%.
It certainly doesn't help when supposedly serious American "opinion elites" and politicians don't know and/or refuse to acknowledge that there are profound differences between Hamas, Hezbollah, Syria and Al-Qaeda and who think that the KSA, Jordan and Egypt are somehow "moderate" Arab regimes that will save US/Israeli bacon from crisping up in the ME.
February 2, 2009 10:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
The above is @ AG.
February 2, 2009 10:56 PM | Reply | Permalink
flavius writes:
Well what happens when you only use rewards? What happens when you give a child only goodies, no limits, and a weak response when there is acting out? You get a maladjusted child. Hence a bitch-slap is required, the setting of limits is needed. But really, both Uncle Sam and Israel need family therapy.
February 2, 2009 11:26 PM | Reply | Permalink
A tragedy for sure. But all we can do is hope that someday the Palestinians get tired of suffering and decide to end their war and recognize Israel. It's horrible that they keep dying, but they have no one to blame but themselves, and have the power to end it any time they choose. Blaming Israel is convenient and easy, but doesn't reflect the history or address the problem and doesn't help the Palestinians come to their senses. Only pressuring them to make peace can help them. Otherwise they will just continue to die. That's what happens when you choose war.
February 3, 2009 2:21 AM | Reply | Permalink
"But all we can do is hope that someday the Palestinians get tired of suffering and decide to end their war and recognize Israel. It's horrible that they keep dying, but they have no one to blame but themselves"
Where were you when they explained about there being two sides to every story?
February 3, 2009 4:14 AM | Reply | Permalink
Your're right. If only Nelson Mandela had admitted that the National Party was right all along, I bet the Apartheid Regime would have arrested and killed fewer ANC members.
February 3, 2009 9:39 AM | Reply | Permalink
Google "grand mufti nazi gas chamber" to get a taste of the real father of the Palestinian movement.
February 3, 2009 1:14 PM | Reply | Permalink
Google Meir Kahane to get a taste of the real spiritual father of the Zionist movement.
February 3, 2009 1:30 PM | Reply | Permalink
Zionism: term coined in 1891; Zionist movement: founded by Theodore Herzl in 1897;
Meir Kahane: Born 1932 (lunatic bigot, in my opinion, but hardly relevant here).
Grand Mufti of Jerusalem: uncle of Yasser Arafat, avowed ally of the Nazis, organizer of Arab Waffen SS units responsible for mass murder and trained in Nazi-occupied Greece on portable gas-chamber trucks meant for the extermination of 500,000 Jews in the Middle East when Rommel won the battle of
North Africa (he didn't). Said he would die happy knowing that five million Jews had been killed. (He must have died 20% happier with six million.) Credited in testimony at Nuremberg with being a major instigator of the Nazi final solution. Do the search and deal with the truth.
February 3, 2009 8:14 PM | Reply | Permalink
Occupying Gaza?
Regarding Mrs. Klein anti-Israeli article
The occupying Gaza that was mentioned in the article on the 10.1.09, Klein mentioned
That all the world should boycott Israel.
Three years ago that you all might be busy in the daily news, the Israeli government decided that she is tired from getting to any agreement with
The divided Palestinian people, and decided a one side decision that it is going to get out of Gaza and clear all the settlements around it.
You can google it - the disengagement - it really happened.
You all must be asking yourself, why, is so, the Palestinian people did not do anything to build them self their own economy? good question. the answer is that the terror leadership of the Palestinian preferred to invest all its resources and time in arming and shooting Israel. not attacks over soldiers or settlements since they are not around but only on civilians - regular villages. amazing news not?
For 15 years Israel is trying to find a arrangement with the Palestinian people, in 2000 Yaser Arafet got a proposal that "he can't refuse" a proposal that gives him more than 90% of the land of east Jerusalem! his reaction was the second Intifada, of course.
The Palestinian people suffer greatly, all will agree. but the occupation - that is a result of the historian attack on the '67 borders of Israel - as very little to do with it.
The bad lack of the Palestinian is that every time that are been lead by leaders that are thirsty for blood and money from Iran.
These people that without thinking twice, killing their own people if they try to resist their own leaders - that were been selected "democratically". their terror crimes upon Israel include only by killing civil ans and in schools, teenagers parties, restaurants, busesץ When the Hamas took over Gaza it killed more than 600 Palestinian, and guess what? the Al-Jazeera news station was not there.
Moreover, the Hamas is not ashamed to say and publicly that their cause is holy - to erase Israel from the map, that no Jew will no longer pollute the air, you better google them also? highly recommended.
The War in Gaza is not against the Palestinian but rather only on the Hamas!it is not a simple problem specially because that the Hamas people chose hospitals and schools as their hiding places. but since that the Hamas is shooting on Israel for years not, and killing children, women and men, the Israeli government had to agree on a very hard decision - the war on Gaza. but the Israeli government should spare on the Palestinian people more than its own people?
The Hamas, refused in all the last there years, for a one sided cease-fire - he wants to continue the killing and the missiles launching, interesting what would you do in this situation? just stand and wait for them to kill you? is this is the solution that you are trying to achieve by boycott Israel?
Could be that you ask yourself why no one is talking or writing about these things?
the answer is for Mrs Klein especially, the answer is really sad but real. that although Israel has extremely well high-tech skills, and dozens of novel prizes, its public relation, is not getting even 1% of recognition. Israel is a failure when it has to explain it self.
But on the other side Mrs. Klein is wizard in public relation, for your new book that is coming out, you are choosing to avoid the clear facts, and show a clear ignorant. will you do to recognize your new book with these popular, opinions that are antisemitism?
I do not recall you or any one saying boycott Russia, Georgia or boycott USA for invading Iraq.
Mrs. Klein is the one who support terror that slanderer Israel with her article.
In the Israeli people things that people who writes about things they do not have any understanding, should be boycott because you Mrs. Klein support Terror.
Lilach Sigan,
Globes Newspaper.
here is another link to look and understand:
http://www.bicom.org.uk/news/operation-cast-lead/videos/bbc-news--military-analysis
February 7, 2009 4:22 AM | Reply | Permalink