Anti-Defamation League Calls Bill Moyers Racist for Criticizing Gaza War
You have to read this exchange between Bill Moyers and Abe Foxman. It leaves even me (almost) speechless.
Foxman says that by criticizing the war, Moyers demonstrates "moral equivalency, racism, historical revisionism, and indifference to terrorism...."
Bill Moyers, a southern Baptist from Texas, a preacher no less, is the then 20-something who came to Washington with Lyndon Johnson and worked with him to enact the Civil Rights and Voting Rights Acts, and a host of other progressive legislation that transformed America and, additionally, made the election of Barack Obama possible . Moyers, who resigned as LBJ's aide in 1967, largely because he could not stomach the Vietnam war, is about as free of any kind of prejudice as any person I've ever met and his life story proves it.
The big difference between Bill and some of his critics is that he moved beyond his parochial past and embraced the cause of humanity -- unlike his critics whose humanitarianism extends almost exclusively to their own and who would never criticize any human rights violations by their own.
It is humanitarianism on the cheap. You criticize what random "others" do but keep silent when it is your side. Picture a Serbo-American who protested all kinds of defamation and human rights violations but defended every Serb action in the wars against Croatia or Bosnia. Or a Russian human rights activist who kept silent about Chechnya.
Transparently hypocritical, right? And so are the attacks against critics of the Gaza war. Human rights activism, when not applied to your own "side," is utterly worthless.
Moyers needs no defense from me. He is one of the most admired figures in America. This attack will harm not at all. It will, in fact, enhace his reputation just as Ed Murrow's was enhanced by the attacks on him during the McCarthy era.
Moyers is just lucky he is not some lesser figure. Someone other than Moyers might simply disappear from PBS if he was libeled this way.
That is how it works. Just not this time.
I look forward to seeing Bill punch back tonight. I hope it's not pretty.
"he moved beyond his parochial past and embraced the cause of humanity" - just like you did with your AIPAC - Near East Report background, MJ?
January 16, 2009 2:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
Thanks....I did abandon my parochial past. As my grandpa liked to say, "there is no point getting older if you don't continue to re-appraise your views." Yes, I did that. Still do.
January 16, 2009 2:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
Ah, guilt. The last refuge of the rhetorically defeated.
January 16, 2009 2:11 PM | Reply | Permalink
And DRW: Are you Davai/tnathan? If so, you are not as eloquent when you quote yourself.
January 16, 2009 2:15 PM | Reply | Permalink
Will the Israel Lobby succeed again in branding any criticism as "Anti-Semitism"? Here's hoping not, although given the spineless nature of our politicians and media, I'm not hopeful.
January 16, 2009 2:41 PM | Reply | Permalink
Also not hopeful. It's a landgrab for the Lord, and if you don't appreciate that, you're evil. Period.
January 17, 2009 4:15 AM | Reply | Permalink
Let's just lock Foxman in a room with that weird dude who freaks out whenever anybody tells a joke about the pope (you all know who I mean, he tried to get the Simpsons taken off the air...)
Nothing I hate more than somebody who can't take criticism.
January 16, 2009 3:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
Bill Donohue! Lock him in a room with Foxman and the two can suffocate on their outrage.
January 16, 2009 3:01 PM | Reply | Permalink
Excellent suggestion Destor! Capital idea!
The ADL, like Donahue's group, lost it's credibility some time ago. Only the extremists who share their views really pay attention to what they have to say anymore.
January 16, 2009 4:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
You mean, William Donahue. And when is he going to be up for re-election of the Catholic League? Regime change, now!
January 16, 2009 3:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
He is paid not to take criticism. I don't believe that more than about one-third of Foxman's infantile posturing springs on its own from the labyrinthine recesses of his "personality." The rest of it (calling any dead Palestinian civilian a "human shield," calling any live male Palestinian between age 12 and 88 a "fighter" or a terrorist," calling the West Bank "disputed territory," calling any Jew who fails to back 120% the RWZ agenda, and so on ad nauseam) is the dead-eyed recitation of bad-faith, cliched talking points from a long list of them.
January 17, 2009 5:04 PM | Reply | Permalink
The ADL follows a predictable format when responding to anyone.
antisemitic check
canard check
racism check
protocols check
terrorist check
if you sneeze on a bagel, the adl will call you antisemitic.
there was conflict in massachussets between the adl and their 'no place for hate' program. ADL is fuzzy - denies due to politics - regarding the armenian genocide. many cities told adl to go shove it because of their double standard. way to go! adl exploits antisemitism for political purposes while at the same time is insincere about the human rights of others.
January 16, 2009 3:10 PM | Reply | Permalink
BluePearl -
You forgot "moral equivalency."
As soon as I see that phrase I know I'm being sold a bill of goods.
January 16, 2009 3:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
And they are not alone. Did you notice the progression of the Defense of the Massacre in Gaza:
1. Professional Military Operation: Unfortunate, but necessary.
2. Children killed, not intentional. Keep dropping 2,000 pound bombs.
3. 300 dead clildren. Hamas made us do it.
4. Hamas won't surrender. Blow up the UN food depo.
5. Hamas won't surrender. Drop more 2,000 pound bombs.
6. Hamas won't surrender. Declare a unilateral ceasefire before Obama takes office.
7. Spin as victory and about "re-establishing deterrence." Of course, if Israel had actually won the 2006 war against Hezbollah, why would the IDF need to "re-establish" its capabilities?
8. UN begins counting number of dead civilians........Start screaming "antisemitism".
Rinse. And repeat.
January 16, 2009 3:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
All true, but Israel jumped the shark yesterday when they 'accidentally' shelled the UN compound, providing primary evidence that they are committing war crimes by using phosphorus bombs, for starters.
All the standard prevarications and denials ain't flying here, so time to denounce the UN as anti-semitic, i'd guess.
January 16, 2009 3:38 PM | Reply | Permalink
Channeling my inner Dershowitz, those phosphorus bombs were (1) not fired by the IDF; (2) if fired by the IDF, they did not hit the UN facility; (3) if they hit the UN facility, Hamas fired them; (4) if Hamas did not fire them, then the Iranians did; (5) if you accept none of these excuses, then you hate Jews and probably deny the Holocaust.
QED.
January 16, 2009 5:11 PM | Reply | Permalink
Anyone critical of Bill Moyer, this man of towering integrity, is suspect in my mind.
January 16, 2009 3:27 PM | Reply | Permalink
Outrageous insults from Foxman. Either he should resign as head of ADL in shame, or any ADL member who cares about America should resign from ADL.
January 16, 2009 3:34 PM | Reply | Permalink
I have listened and watched the foxy man become ever more strident over the years as he rushes to the media with his pearls of didactic nonsense at the first mention of Israel, or F16s, or cluster bombs, or white phosphorus or American tax payers dollars. It is one of the enduring mysteries of American political life that any non-person with enough assets can assume a position of authority merely by having sufficient chutzpah and a loud enough voice. If it wasn't so tragic - if over a 1000 people hadn't been killed including 320 children - it might be a movie script. But it isn't. The killings are real and the anger grows around the world that America can collude in such atrocities.
January 16, 2009 3:46 PM | Reply | Permalink
I read Moyer's piece and was taken with its thoughtfulness and rationality. So of course the guy has to call Mr. Moyer every name in the book. I really hope that Mr. Moyer calmly and with great intellectual vigor, tears that guy apart tonight. I'm just hoping I'll be able to watch it myself.
January 16, 2009 4:03 PM | Reply | Permalink
Words "worse then a crime -- u blunder" come to mind.
Bill Moyers will not be worse for the wear after this attack, and Foxman looks ridiculous.
I wonder when people will start scratching their heads. "The greatest ally? What about United Kindgdom? Ethiopia provided more material help to our wars than Israel?"
"Moral equivalency? What is equivalent between thinking about slaughter and committing slaughter, they are both repugnant, but are they equivalent?"
And then this bit about Moyer writing that human beings have violence in their genes, which Foxman finds anti-Semitic, as it implies that Jews have violence in their genes. I guess, thinking that the Chosen People are like Other People is a double crime of anti-Semitism and moral equivalency.
Ever since it was explained that "evenhandedness" is an anti-Semitic principle I wonder how far this bucket will hold water.
I think that hypocrisy is like timber: a renewable resource, but one that can get depleted.
January 16, 2009 4:15 PM | Reply | Permalink
I tend to think the worm has turned on this thing. Last night I was at Drinking Liberally, and all in our little discussion agreed that it's getting tougher and tougher for the deadenders like Foxman to keep the genie of discussion in the bottle.
My big fear is that it may be too late. Based on the commentary and justifications put out by the Israeli government, literally all Hamas has to do is fire a couple of rockets into Israel after this is over, and they'll have won, by remaining in the game.
What gets me about all this is why these idiots like Foxman can't see that in reality, what they're doing is slowly undermining the foundations of the state of Israel.
January 16, 2009 4:36 PM | Reply | Permalink
So what if the foundations of the state of Israel are undermined. The state of Israel should never have been created. True justice would be to relocate Israel to Europe, perhaps northwestern Germany. That way, the people who made a Jewish homeland necessary would pay the price for creating it.
January 16, 2009 4:58 PM | Reply | Permalink
MJ,
You'll probably have a hard time persuading Abe Foxman he didn't move beyond his parochialism, seeing how he was raised a Catholic.
On the ADL website, Foxman has written: "If I knew how to put the ADL out of business, I would." Arguably, he's come close many times, but even if he hasn't finished off the League's reputation for good, one can say, that after 40 years of tireless work, Abe Foxman has managed to make having the ADL call you a racist or anti-Semite a badge of honor.
January 16, 2009 5:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
As long as this country keeps producing people like Joe the Plumber, Foxman will stay in business.
January 16, 2009 5:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
Maybe Joe could confront Foxman with W's categorization: Either you're with us, or you're with the (IDF) terrorists. Which is it?
Seriously, Foxman has the 1st Amendment right to say whatever he wants. And the rest of Americans have the 1st Article power to be represented by a Congress whose activities with respect to the Mideast do not revolve around recycling the propaganda of Israeli creators of future Islamic terrorists. Thanks to Moyers, Rosenberg, et. al. America at least has fighting chance of finally liberating its Mideast policy so that that policy can serve the national interest in a two-state arrangement.
January 16, 2009 5:37 PM | Reply | Permalink
You did hits the nail on the head. As long as Zionists can brainwash people like Joe the Plumber, we'll not see the peace in ME.
January 16, 2009 6:22 PM | Reply | Permalink
There was a time when the ADL was highly regarded and performed a valuable service in combating anti-Semitism in this country. Sadly, that important work now takes a backseat to shilling for Israel.
January 16, 2009 5:19 PM | Reply | Permalink
The only way I can imagine Foxman's obnoxious hypocrisy helping Israel is by embracing the blind hope that Barak and Livni, after winning next month's election, then take on the settler-terrorists of the West Bank with some small but non-zero fraction of the ferocity and ruthlessness with which they are now blowing up people in Gaza. The old argument that it took a cold warrior like Nixon to achieve detente with Red China, and an only ex-Irgun terrorist such as Begin had the credibility to make a land-for-peace deal with Egypt work. IF Foxman's vitrol helps elect B and L and they then pull off such a flip flop and then negotiate a solid peace deal with Abbas, then Foxman, on such a blizzardy day in hell, is helping Israel.
January 16, 2009 5:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
"....negotiate a solid peace deal with Abbas..."
Abbas? What is he president of? His term has expired. He has no more mandate to represent the Palestinians than Bush does after next Tuesday.
January 16, 2009 6:15 PM | Reply | Permalink
In the "blizzardy day in hell" to which my comment referred, some kind of deal is still possible with Abbas.
January 16, 2009 8:43 PM | Reply | Permalink
January 16, 2009 6:19 PM | Reply | Permalink
Thanks, Anna.
January 16, 2009 7:08 PM | Reply | Permalink
January 16, 2009 6:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
Start by making clear distinctions in your comments between American Jews as a group, and the small vocal minority of them who are active mouthpieces for the hardline fanatical wing of the Israeli political spectrum. In other words, don't equate the dog with the tail that is wagging it to a Gazan hell. Doing so is the equivalent of blaming all Arabs for the moral depravity of Arab suicide bombers.
January 16, 2009 8:49 PM | Reply | Permalink
The fact is that the majority of American Jews support the current war.
January 16, 2009 9:26 PM | Reply | Permalink
AnnaA: You forgot to mention our control over the media, Hollywood and the Fed; while we're at it, lets not forget the Rotary and Lions Clubs and the Freemasons.
January 16, 2009 9:58 PM | Reply | Permalink
In the absence of the slightest shred of proof, I highly doubt your claim, Anna. I think most Jews in America, like most Americans, support Israel's using SOME kind of force in response to rocket attacks on it, but not necessarily all the atrocities being committed in recent weeks. In any event (and I also consider most polls on this to be crap) your approach which certainly appears to be one of blaming Jews with a broad brush (you may wish to clarify on that point) is precisely the worst possible approach. Jews in the U.S. with solid common sense, a sense of shame, a sense of basic integrity and decency, and with a loyalty to the USA first (certainly a large number if not an overwhelming majority) are by far the MOST important keys to turning around American attitudes and policies towards the Mideast and liberating those policies from the West Bank settlers who have hijacked them. THOSE extremists, and the Arab extremists too, NOT Jews and Arabs wholesale are the problem. If you want to dance around the edges of anti-Semitism that is of course within your right to free speech, but it is completely and incredibly counterproductive in terms of "helping American Jews to move beyond their parochial past."
January 17, 2009 5:40 AM | Reply | Permalink
Of course, now that the charge of racism has been hurled so frequently - and cheaply - it's lost both its credibility and its ability to intimidate, the real racists are free to prowl at will. Fox's prattle will succeed only in marginalizing the ADL; that's the one blessing from this embarrassing (for its donors) episode.
January 16, 2009 6:30 PM | Reply | Permalink
For those of you who want to show solidarity with Israel in her time of need, here is a list of products available here in the US that are made in Israel.
http://www.buyisraelgoods.org/
January 16, 2009 6:36 PM | Reply | Permalink
For those of you who want to know where all that Iraqi WMD intelligence came from read "State of War" by James Risen.
January 16, 2009 6:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
Is that a joke?
January 16, 2009 6:54 PM | Reply | Permalink
That was a reference to Israel's "time of need."
January 16, 2009 7:09 PM | Reply | Permalink
Maybe this mentality helped influence Chickenhawk W. Bush's notion that the best way to sacrifice in the great "war" on terror was to go shopping.
January 16, 2009 8:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
Thanks for the link, syvanen!
April 15, 2009 12:47 PM | Reply | Permalink
Ever since he vigorously promoted the rabid anti-Semite Joseph Campbell I always assumed that Bill Moyers is also antisemitic--without regard to what he says or does. Anyone who questions this connection should read Brenden Gill's writing in the on the subject in the September 28, 1989 New York Review of Books.
January 16, 2009 6:39 PM | Reply | Permalink
As Matt Yglesias wrote this week, the term a-s has become nothing but a term of irony.
Like the phrase "Adam Sandler's movie as anti-semitic, but in a good way."
Or, "Did you see Rabin's daughter blasting the war. She is so anti-semitic."
In other words, it means nothing.
Too bad, because there really are people who hate Jews i.e., discriminate against them and might even want to do violence to them. What do we call them?
January 16, 2009 6:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
"If we call David Dinkins an anti-semite, what are we going to call David Duke?" Sol Dershowitz
January 16, 2009 7:02 PM | Reply | Permalink
I have too much respect for this site to let my error stand. I misqouted, it was not Dershowitz, it was another person. It was the guy with the wild hair. I can't remember his name. I really miss him though . He was at least an honest broker.
January 16, 2009 8:44 PM | Reply | Permalink
How about calling them "people who discriminate against Jews, or hate them and might even want to do violence to them"--?
January 16, 2009 7:31 PM | Reply | Permalink
In his article, "The Faces of Joseph Campbell", Gill offers little proof that Campbell was an anti-Semite, other than Campbell's belief that biblical myth was fiction. Since when is telling the truth anti-Semitic?
January 16, 2009 6:54 PM | Reply | Permalink
Joseph Campbell was probably not at all antisemitic. During his life the accusation was never made and after Brendan Gill's article former students and colleagues refuted this charge in the NY Review of Books Volume 36, Issue 17, November 9, 1989, pages 57–61. There is a long wikipedia entry on him and the only mention of antisemitism is this one Brendan Gill article.
January 16, 2009 7:01 PM | Reply | Permalink
What is the basis for your statement that Joseph Campbell was an anti-semite?
January 16, 2009 7:02 PM | Reply | Permalink
Joseph Campbell hated Jews and he did discriminate against them. Ask any Jewish Sarah Lawrence student who attempted to take one of his classes. But I never saw him do or heard of him doing physical harm to any Jews.
I was a student at Sarah Lawrence when he was there and I personally heard him say (in the early 1970s)that we (the U.S.) had fought on the wrong side in WWII.
January 16, 2009 7:03 PM | Reply | Permalink
Odd you didn't bring up this "first-hand knowledge" intitially, and instead wrapped your charges around Gill's vague polemic. Also, it's odd all Campbell's accusers were silent until after he was dead. I guess prudent crusaders wait until their target is safe - and cold.
January 16, 2009 7:22 PM | Reply | Permalink
I wonder how many of the Jews who died in the Shoah -- left-wing Jews, anti-Zionists, Communists, socialists -- would be pilloried by the Jewish right today.
In Europe in the 30's and 40's, most Jews were on the left.
If these leftist types were not killed by the Nazis, they would all be called anti-semites or self-hating Jews.
Sick.
January 16, 2009 7:06 PM | Reply | Permalink
What does that have to do with Joseph Campbell's antisemitism, or my assumption of Bill Moyers antisemitism?
January 16, 2009 7:15 PM | Reply | Permalink
You don't even know what anti-semitism is. It refers, or used to, disliking Jews.
It does not refer to associated or praising a scholar who did not like the Old Testament.
Your comment is just silly.
January 16, 2009 8:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
I stand corrected. I do not know if Campbell was antisemitic, but I do know he hated Jews. I begin at that point and am uninterested in the rest of what Campbell had to say. But with regard to Campbell's views of the old testament you should consider: which came first the chicken or the egg? I think you make a mistake by defending Campbell based on Moyers piece. You M.J. are proudly uninformed. I have always ignored "Follow your bliss." because to me it means: Ignore what doesn't fit into your belief structure. Just as Campbell did. And just as you are doing. My assumptions on Moyers are based on his manifoldly increasing Campbell's fame.
January 16, 2009 9:02 PM | Reply | Permalink
My understanding of history is that many people who were murdered in the Shoah had no connection to Judaism or Zionism other than one alleged by Nazis based on their ancestry or their marriages.
January 16, 2009 7:36 PM | Reply | Permalink
Most of Communists, socialists escaped to Russia and were killed by Stalin.
January 16, 2009 8:32 PM | Reply | Permalink
No, they weren't, Anna. The overwhelming majority of Jews who fled to the USSR survived the war.
If they had not, my children and their cousins would not exist.
As evil as Stalin was, there was no systematic annihilation of Jews (although Stalin may have planned to kill the Jews in the early 50's.)
Many Jews even had top posts in the Stalin regime.
Stalin was an equal opportunity killer. Race or religion was not the issue.
January 16, 2009 8:37 PM | Reply | Permalink
Stalin didn't kill ordinary Jews, but he killed most of foreign communist leaders who escaped to Russia. Many of them were Jews.
January 16, 2009 9:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
Right. I didn't understand what you meant. My apologies.
January 17, 2009 10:28 AM | Reply | Permalink
MJ-
If you haven't read it, I recommend Norman Finkelstein's book: "The Holocaust Industry".
It tears Abie a new one - get him where it hurts,recommend the book on your blog.
January 16, 2009 8:38 PM | Reply | Permalink
I sure did.
January 16, 2009 8:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
OK
You can all congratulate yourselves for your courage to speak out against the zionist oppressor
January 16, 2009 8:45 PM | Reply | Permalink
You are calling us self-righteous. Fine. I can live with that. I couldn't live with knowing that I said nothing about this horror.
January 16, 2009 8:49 PM | Reply | Permalink
January 16, 2009 8:46 PM | Reply | Permalink
This is not gruesome (I wouldn't post those). But see this little girl and you understand this war in all its horror.
http://www.facebook.com/posted.php?id=508885295#/video/video.php?v=111595200532&ref=share
January 16, 2009 8:47 PM | Reply | Permalink
She looks coached to me, MJ. The facts are bad enough. Stick to them and echew video reinforcement I'd say, unless the video has been verified by a qualified outsider. Appreciate the idea you're trying to convey, however.
January 16, 2009 9:11 PM | Reply | Permalink
Coached. She looks anything but coached. She reminds me of half the little girls in my family.
January 16, 2009 9:15 PM | Reply | Permalink
Take a look at this video on You Tube. It's an Israeli TV newscast with a Palestinian doctor temporarily in Israel and unable to return to Gaza because of the War. As Israeli TV interviews the man, it shows him video of the IDF blowing up his home, killing his family including 3 young daughters. The agony in the doctor's voice is something that will stay with me for the rest of my life. (Sorry about it being in Hebrew - I was going to do a translation but it's too painful to listen to over and over)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OLUJ4fF2HN4
THIS INSANITY MUST STOP NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!
January 16, 2009 8:49 PM | Reply | Permalink
How? Gazans are fighting alone. Nobody is helping them.
January 16, 2009 9:27 PM | Reply | Permalink
No. Nobody much cares, including all the Arab states.
January 16, 2009 10:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
Not enough details. In fact, no details at all.
A very typical and annoying flaw with Youtube. I am not judging the issue or the situation or the motives here, but it is very lazy to post a video with zero background explanation. Again as with MJ's link above, I do very much appreciate the idea of trying to graphically convey the horror of what is happening in Gaza and thereby help overcome the censorship/propaganda/brainwashing machine, but as someone who does not watch Israeli TV or speak Hebrew, this really adds nothing of substance to what even the mainstream media are reporting about the bombings, the children being killed, the sickening rationalizations, and (thanks to MJ's many fine blog posts) what is already very clear concerning the outrageous mindnumbingly incessant barrage against America by people who rant and rave at the slightest hint that some Americans might not want their country to be, decade after decade, a doormat for whatever any Israeli official might ever feel like saying or doing.
January 16, 2009 9:30 PM | Reply | Permalink
When I was growing up, an assimilated Jew, my folks were in Bnai Brith. The only aspect of BB that made any sense to me by the time of my bar mitzvah, was the Anti-Defamation League. Even as I moved away from my roots, I admired the ADL. They stood on American values rather than being the "voice of the Jews" or a knee-jerk special interest, like the Catholic Defense League and other so-called defenders of their faith. They stood with Blacks, when that was difficult and with Catholics and others to oppose discrimination. Under Mr. Foxman, they began to lose all credibility. Over the last two years, they have repeatedly made clear their neo-con Republican bias. How far the ADL has fallen.
January 16, 2009 9:09 PM | Reply | Permalink
for background about the youtube video posted above about the israeli news broadcast:
Gaza war doctor grieves 3 daughters
Israeli TV airs Gaza doctor's desperate pleas
January 16, 2009 9:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
Off topic, but very relevant to the larger picture:
A Reuters report, just in, says that Israel is about to declare a unilateral cease-fire. If true, this fits the Barak-Livni-Olmert pre-concocted plan perfectly:
1. Blast Gaza to bits during the final lameduck weeks of the Bush Admin when the anyway low probability of any credible US reaction is at or about absolute minimum.
2. Announce unilateral ceasefire (to avoid talking to Hamas) in time for Obama's inauguration, so as to get in good with him by not embarrassing him during his debut.
3. Win the elections against Netanyahu
4. Ask Obama to come in and help clean up the mess.
Watch the US tools closely (as MJ has been doing with attentive effectiveness). They've been busy over the past few weeks screaming and yelling lies and insults trying to distract Americans from the cynical slaughter in Gaza (that does not do jacks--t for the Israelis or Americans or anyone else but the Israeli terrorist-settlers their Arab/Moslem counterparts, and the Israeli politicians using "toughness" to win votes).
Now the tools are likely to switch to another variety of their endless supply of Mideastern camel dung, one perhaps designed to make Americans forget what happened in Gaza, as the Obama "renews" his way to help these great Israeli peacemakers make "historic sacrifices" like closing a few token West Bank settlements.
Of COURSE, Hamas has been playing its bit part in all of this. They want and need endless war as much as the Jewish West Bank terrorist-settlers do. No doubt they'll be sure to keep a few rockets or suicide bombers ready just in case the "peace process" actually progress.
January 16, 2009 9:55 PM | Reply | Permalink
Thanks for this.
So typical. So predictable. And so transparent.
January 16, 2009 10:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
From the book War is a Force that Gives Us Meaning:
"I learned early on that war forms its own culture. The rush of battle is a potent and often lethal addiction, for war is a drug...peddled by myth makers -historians, war correspondents, filmmakers, novelists and the state - all of whom endow it with qualities it often does possess: excitement, exoticism, power, chances to rise above our small stations in life..."
Thanks for "naming" the real dynamic: Extremists on both sides who are addicted to the adrenaline rush and who don't want to give it up.
Perhaps...treatment centers for such individuals?
January 17, 2009 11:13 AM | Reply | Permalink
I read it, Chris Hedges is routinely described as the "factually challenged Chris Hedges" by commentators disturbed by his account of an incident at Khan Unis in which Israeli forces used a loudspeaker to challenge Palestinians to come out and fight and then shot them when they did.
Without having read the refutations ,it's hard for me to believe that this long experienced NY Times war reporter would incorrectly report so serious an event even tho personally I found it inexplicable.
As I often do,I disagree with the sotto voche charge above that the Israelis are butchers. I haven't the least doubt that they are normal human beings who find it almost impossible to be objective about a lethal enemy.Ditto for the Palestinians.
The Israeli/Hamas war is not one between good and evil. It's a war between two groups who since they are at war, do what warring bodies always do , which is anything they think will allow them to win.
I completely understand why Israel gave in to the temptation to start the bombing campaign. I can speculate that some other approach would have been both more humane and "better for the Jews"
but I understand why Olmert/Barak decided as they did.
That said,I strongly disagree with the length of the campaign. As I posted 15 days ago,like David Grossman I think 5 days was enough.
Employing lethal force with the reasonable expectation that that will cause Hamas to stop killing Israeli citizens was appropriate. Doing that in the hope that ,just maybe, it would cause the Gazan population to turn against Hamas was not.
History is too full of examples of the futility of that approach for me to believe that the brilliant Israeli leadership expected that this time it would succeed. So I don't think the last 15 days of this war can accurately be be characterized as legitimate war fare.
Only those Israeli leaders know what it was instead. Revenge? An expression of hatred ?
An election gimmick?( I hope not)
There is of course the proclaimed objective of restoring Israel's "credibility".Given its wpm armory that's unconvincing. And in any event too hypothetical to justify the real deaths that were caused.
I pass over without comment Condi's view that Isreal was right to continue until it could conclude a "sustainable' peace.Unlike what it has actually done this weekend.
For the sake of any"equivalence" afficianados I have no reason to believe for a millisecond that Hamas would have behaved better if the situation were reversed. Whatever,I hold countries responsible for what they actually do irrespective of what their opponents
might have done it the roles were reversed.
Anyway it's good that the killing is about to stop. As for a permanent peace? Next question?
Maybe that would have been a prospect if what Israel is doing today it did after day 5. Not any more. Which of course might have been the real motivation of some of the Israeli decision makers.
January 17, 2009 9:45 PM | Reply | Permalink
Wow. My last comment was "received and held for approval by the blog owner." Was this a technical glich or am I really such a subversive?
January 16, 2009 10:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
Don't get paranoid, that happens if you try to put more than two links in a comment, it's a spam control feature with this software.
In my experience (until a couple of us figured out why it was happening) no "blog owner" is on the other side of where your comment went, i.e., no one here is looking at the file where those comments go, they are never published. Every single one is probably still sitting in a "hold" file somewhere hogging up server space.
If you're still online, try going "back" on your browser if you want to rescue work lost that way, mine often saves my entries.
January 16, 2009 11:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
Thanks, artappraiser, for the tip. Mine had three links. Perhaps in retrospect better left unsaid.
January 17, 2009 12:31 AM | Reply | Permalink
foxman comments on the olmert-rice spat. the state department denies that it ever happened. olmert repeats and boasts that it did.
jewish daily forward
January 17, 2009 12:20 AM | Reply | Permalink
Of course, he doesn't!
January 17, 2009 9:30 AM | Reply | Permalink
"“I have no problem with what Olmert did,” said Abraham Foxman, national director of the Anti-Defamation League. “I think the mistake was to talk about it in public."
As Groucho said, "I didn't like the play but I saw it under adverse conditions. The curtain was up."
January 17, 2009 10:53 AM | Reply | Permalink
This is refreshing if blunt
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qMGuYjt6CP8
Gerald Kaufman, Jewish member of British parliament
January 17, 2009 11:23 AM | Reply | Permalink
It is not anti-American to criticize Bush's foreign policy when you think his policy is hurting the USA. It is not anti-Israel to criticize Israeli foreign policy when you think it is hurting Israel. In the first instance you are pro-USA, and in the second instance you are pro-Israel.
January 17, 2009 5:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
The Israeli government is nothing but a gathering of butchers. Cut them off. Everything.. aid, food, military, 'compassion', 'sympathy'... everything. Make it on your own.. or don't make it at all. Don't knock on my door again.
January 17, 2009 8:02 PM | Reply | Permalink
How can we help American Jews to move beyond their parochial past?
The past of American Jews is anything but parochial!!! The Jews in America have been at the forefront of every activity which promotes diversity and inclusiveness and social justice. In fact, til very recently "Jew" was a synonym for "liberal" or even "commie" This right-wing Jew is a new thing in America, a shameful development.
Then came the '67 war, and many Jews, who are after all, no better than anybody else, (and why should they be? I'll deal with that in a second.) got sucked in to a vicarious Likudnik Zionism.
Disgusting, and I sometimes wonder if my fellow Jews, as they attained economic and social achievements previously unthinkable, were troubled by that slight sense of dislocation Jews are heir to. They had the same money, the same attainments, and the same status as their non-Jewish friends and relatives, why shouldn't they have the same prejudices, the same ability to take pleasure in vicarious brutality, and the same sense the the might and the right were all theirs by right? And I mean, they couldn't very well be Christian Dominionists, could they?
And as to why the Jews should be any better than, say, anybody else, the usual answer scares me to death! See, suffering the Holocaust should make us understanding and compassionate! I can't accept that answer at all, except as one born of anti-semitism. From a Holocaust you get good? You get more understanding? Gee, if that's the case, why shouldn't we have another one. In that case, all the people we are releasing from Guantonomo should be no threat, having gained compassion. I doubt it.
Apart from a few extraordinary individuals, which thank God there are a few, is that what happens? No, brutality begets brutality, of one type or another. That good-from-the-Holocaust routine gives me the heeby-jeebies, and always has.
The most shaming part for me as a Jew, is how quickly Zionists go back and forth between crying "victim" and then threatening a response in their behalf by authorities. Which is it?
And hey, Gentiles, as far as the US, the Goldenah Medina goes, when Zionists start kvetching
January 18, 2009 1:12 PM | Reply | Permalink
start kvetching about prejudice in America, show some pride in yourselves. I sure as hell hope Moyers does.
January 18, 2009 1:14 PM | Reply | Permalink
Anyway, I hope shark is Kosher for jumping, cause Israel could take Gold in that event at the next Olympics.
January 18, 2009 1:15 PM | Reply | Permalink
I would like to point out one aspect of Jewish survival the RWZ are right about. If you take the number of times that RWZ have used some variation of the If-you-don't-support-Israel-my-way-you-are-not-a-Jew schtick and compare it to the statistics, there are at this point -2,345 Jews left in the entire world. That's negative 2,345 !
Because, as we all know, the most practical solution to a dwindling number of adherents is to turn on your own co-religionists. Works every time!
January 18, 2009 1:29 PM | Reply | Permalink
Your title does not appear to be accurate. In the exchange to which you linked, Mr. Foxman of the ADL did not call Mr. Moyers a racist for criticizing the Gaza war. He wrote:
Mr. Moyers responded:
So Moyers is accusing Foxman of something he did not do, which is plain from the fact that Foxman's reference to racism (anti-Semitism) was linkly wholely to this passage of Moyers':
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