Bill Moyers on Gaza
To me, Bill Moyers in the conscience of American journalism. He's a combination of Ed Murrow and IF Stone. A soft-spoken crusader.
Unlike Murrow or Stone, Moyers really knows how power works. In his twenties, he was LBJ's top aide, resigning over the Vietnam war and Johnson's slip into paranoia.
He went on to become American journalism's best. He is also fearless, as you will see from his commentary about Gaza. Israeli policies are the third rail of our politics: criticize them at your own risk.
Virtually no major figure in media does -- except privately where, with few exceptions, they all do.
Moyers, on the other hand, does not confine his critique to dinner parties. He understands that as a public figure, the words that matter are those he says publicly.
Watch him, listen to him, or read him on Gaza and thank God at least one major media figure is not afraid to speak out.
For too much of the world at large the names of the dead and wounded in Gaza might as well be John Doe too. They are the casualties and victims of Israel's decision to silence the rockets from Hamas terrorists by waging war on an entire population. Yes, every nation has the right to defend its people. Israel is no exception, all the more so because Hamas would like to see every Jew in Israel dead.
But brute force can turn self-defense into state terrorism. It's what the U.S. did in Vietnam, with B-52s and napalm, and again in Iraq, with shock and awe. By killing indiscriminately - the elderly, kids, entire families by destroying schools and hospitals -- Israel did exactly what terrorists do and exactly what Hamas wanted. It spilled the blood that turns the wheel of retribution.
Hardly had Israeli tank fire killed and injured scores at a UN school in Gaza than a senior Hamas leader went on television to announce, "The Zionists have legitimized the killing of their children by killing our children." Already attacks on Jews in Europe are escalating -- a burning car crashes into a synagogue in Southern France, a fiery object is hurled through a window in Sweden, venomous anti-Semitic graffiti appears across the continent, and arsonists strike in London.
What we are seeing in Gaza is the latest battle in the oldest family quarrel on record. Open your Bible: the sons of the patriarch Abraham become Arab and Jew. Go to the Book of Deuteronomy. When the ancient Israelites entered Canaan their leaders urged violence against its inhabitants. The very Moses who had brought down the commandment "Thou shalt not kill" now proclaimed, "You must destroy completely all the places where the nations have served their gods. You must tear down their altars, smash their pillars, cut down their sacred poles, set fire to the carved images of their gods, and wipe out their name from that place."
So God-soaked violence became genetically coded. A radical stream of Islam now seeks to eliminate Israel from the face of the earth. Israel misses no opportunity to humiliate the Palestinians with checkpoints, concrete walls, routine insults, and the onslaught in Gaza. As if boasting of their might, Israel defense forces even put up video of the explosions on YouTube for all the world to see. A Norwegian doctor there tells CBS, "It's like Dante's Inferno. They are bombing one and a half million people in a cage."
America has officially chosen sides. We supply Israel with money, F-16s, winks and tacit signals. Our Christian right links arms with the religious extremists there who claim divine sanctions for Israel's occupation of the West Bank. Our political elites show neither independence nor courage by challenging the consensus that Israel can do no wrong. Although one recent poll found Democratic voters overwhelmingly oppose the Israeli offensive by a 24-point margin, Democratic Party leaders in Congress nonetheless march in lockstep to the hardliners in Israel and the White House. Rarely does our mainstream media depart from the monotonous monologue of the party line. Many American Jews know, as Aaron David Miller writes in the current "Newsweek", that the destruction in Gaza won't do much to address Israel's longer-term needs.
But those who raise questions are accused by a prominent reform rabbi of being "morally deficient." One Jewish American activist told me this week that never in 30 years has he seen such blind and binding conformity in his community. "You'd never know," he said, "that it is the Gazans who are doing most of the suffering."
We are in a terrible bind -- Israel, the Palestinians, the United States. Each greases the cycle of violence, as one man's terrorism becomes another's resistance to oppression. Is it possible to turn this mindless tragedy toward peace? For starters, read Aaron David Miller's article in the current "Newsweek". Get his book, "The Much Too Promised Land". And pay no attention to those Washington pundits cheering the fighting in Gaza as they did the bloodletting in Iraq. Killing is cheap and war is a sport in a city where life and death become abstractions of policy. Here are the people who pay the price.
That's it for the Journal. I'm Bill Moyers. We'll be back next week.




















Moyers is a man of great inner strength and rock solid values. That is what makes his commentary on all subjects so powerful. Hopefully, his voice will be heard and make a difference.
January 13, 2009 12:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
Moyers is a loathsome, unconscionable government sponsored socialist whose regard for the truth is as nonexistent as any other Marxist.
January 14, 2009 8:45 AM | Reply | Permalink
Methinks you've wandered off the wingnut ranch partner. Why don't ya head back yonder to be with those of like small minds?
January 14, 2009 9:40 AM | Reply | Permalink
My tax dollars are paying that Marxist punk and paying for his little platform. It's a taxpayer thing. As a tax consumer, like most the parasites here, you wouldn't understand.
January 14, 2009 12:13 PM | Reply | Permalink
Au contraire my good reactionary troglodyte! I fully understand and coulnd't be happier that it pisses you off.
It's difficult for me to understand what it's like to be trapped inside such a small mind as you are but I try and I hope something takes place that changes that for you so that the world doesn't scare you so bad and make you so angry for no good reason. A pleasant good day to you sir!
January 14, 2009 2:10 PM | Reply | Permalink
spric, you are mostly WRONG!!
Mr. Moyers's salary is not being paid by you.
The Corporation for Public Broadcasting (CPB) receives about 16% of its annual operating funds from a federal appropriation (ie. your tax dollars). Of this money, less than 20% goes directly to programming (so, about 3% of the overall federal appropriation).
The CPB pays only a very small amount of the money required to produce any given show on PBS. The rest comes from corporate sponsors, local stations, "and viewers like you" (well, viewers like me, anyway).
So the idea that your tax dollars are going to Mr. Moyers is at least 95% wrong. So get off your high horse and stop spreading lies.
-- ARG
Source: http://www.cpb.org/aboutcpb/financials/appropriation/
January 14, 2009 3:46 PM | Reply | Permalink
spric,
shouldn't you be posting over on FreeRepublic? The quality of your posts suggest you would fit right in over there.
January 14, 2009 5:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
Methinks our friend spric is a troll. If you look at his comments (since joining TPM just recently), they're peppered with accusations of Marxism (although that seems odd, since his profile says he's a democrat and it's more frequently RW nuts who try the Marxist-scare thingie) and several posts consist of the single word, "Homeaux." I've never understood the thrill of getting banned from a site.
January 14, 2009 1:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
Sure I'm a registered democrat. Got to be to vote in the primaries. That's where the outcome of elections are decided here.
January 15, 2009 6:40 AM | Reply | Permalink
spric,
its obvious that Moyers is way beyond your ability to comprehend. I suggest you go back to the Sean Hannity show where people are a mile wide and an inch deep, you will be more comfortable there.
January 14, 2009 5:45 PM | Reply | Permalink
I agree he's very very impressive, although I just watched a documentary about the death of MLK which described him as one of a couple aides who spread Cheneyesque lies about MLK.
http://video.google.com/googleplayer.swf?docId=-3793111576487038398
I guess his turnaround says a lot about the possibility of redemption.
January 13, 2009 12:26 PM | Reply | Permalink
I've no doubt he engaged in some political shenanigans while working at the Johnson White House. Methinks, however, he'd probably be the first to admit any such behavior and that by now he's expiated any sins he committed at that time.
January 13, 2009 12:54 PM | Reply | Permalink
If I'm counting right, we'll be able to learn what lies were told about MLK in about ten years. Smart money says the FBI records will never be opened to the public.
We know MLK was an affirmative action PHD before affirmative action PHDs were cool. He did it with plagiarism before affirmative action was encoded into law. His legendary whore mongering is pretty well mainstream now if TV's portrayal of prevailing morality is correct. I don't understand why we can't have info on someone for which we have a national holiday.
January 14, 2009 8:53 AM | Reply | Permalink
"We know MLK was an affirmative action PHD before affirmative action PHDs were cool. He did it with plagiarism before affirmative action was encoded into law."
How can you be an "affirmative action PHD" "before affirmative action was encoded into law."?
January 15, 2009 1:26 PM | Reply | Permalink
Plagarism
January 15, 2009 3:13 PM | Reply | Permalink
Bill Moyers' Journal on PBS is something to look forward to on a regular basis... (thought the timing of the recent conflict over there was rather peculiar considering the current out-going U.S. administration giving way to the new in-coming administration).
January 13, 2009 12:29 PM | Reply | Permalink
MJ, you got that right. Moyers is so ingrained in my own psyche that I hear his voice as I read your quote. Bill Moyers is a great man and I commend you for taking the time to point that out.
KUDOS
January 13, 2009 12:30 PM | Reply | Permalink
It is really disturbing to watch the USA handcuff its foreign policy to Israel. All of the promise and excitement of a new Administration means very little if a President Obama continues our unquestioning support of Israeli policy.
This recent offensive, and Obama's silence have already sent a message to the Arab world that it will be business as usual in the US.
January 13, 2009 12:43 PM | Reply | Permalink
Sheesh...Obama isn't even sworn in yet! Let's not get ahead of ourselves, ok?
January 13, 2009 1:01 PM | Reply | Permalink
I am not criticizing Obama at all, I am simply pointing out that Israel's military campaign, and its consequences for our national security aren't waiting for Next Tuesday.
January 14, 2009 12:10 PM | Reply | Permalink
The thing that I'm hanging onto is Obama's comment when asked why he'd speak out against the terrorism in India but not about the Gaza situation. And he responded, I can't quote exactly, but the sense was that where he agrees with bush, he can speak. But where they disagree he must be silent. So... to me that silence does not mean he does not care. And it certainly doesn't mean he agrees with the bush policy. It means he's in disagreement - but can't say so, till he's sworn in.
There's so much we're waiting to hear and see. It's like holding your breath in some ways - since Nov. 4. We see appointments. We hear statements. But we're waiting.... to exhale.
January 13, 2009 2:22 PM | Reply | Permalink
>It's like holding your breath in some ways - since Nov. 4.
I feel as if I've been holding my breath since Nov. 4, but that was Nov. 4, 2004 (or maybe 2000 - No, don't remind me about 2000...).
I think you're absolutely right, TheraP, in your interpretation of what Obama meant by that statement, and what his silence means. I sure hope so. I don't anticipate that Obama will necessarily go as far as I would in straightening out the U.S. approach to the I-P conflict, but whatever he does, it's going to be a 100% improvement over what we've had these long 8 years.
January 13, 2009 4:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yes... I've been holding my breath since 2000... very true!
Now... ready to exhale though. I really, really want to be hopeful about Obama. Especially about the Rule of Law. Heavens, if you and I break the law, no one is gonna be saying... aw, forget about it!
January 13, 2009 4:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
So many Americans holding their breaths until January 20, that it could cause a hurricane when they all exhale. Not only Americans are waiting for that day.
I agree that Obama's silence is not assent. It means he differs on the Bush administration's Middle East policy and mediation ability.
The Gaza Offensive was carefully timed, since November 4, 2008 when Israel broke the truce. The US transition of presidents provided cover for Israeli military action but I think Olmert went too far in his arrogant declaration that he could call a US president to affect a vote on a UN resolution. "Interesting, if true," as Gertrude Stein would say.
January 14, 2009 9:02 AM | Reply | Permalink
Don't know why Obamba is not speaking out on Gaza?? Get real TheraP!! You know who's pulling the strings on these puppets. Look at the single ethnic group benefiting from these "bailouts".
January 14, 2009 8:59 AM | Reply | Permalink
prick -
And just what would be your Final Solution to the Jewish Question that you so coyly allude to here?
Drudge is calling you back home, troll.
January 14, 2009 9:48 AM | Reply | Permalink
I didn't make any "coy allusions" to a final solution in that statement. You wouldn't make a very good clairvoyant. You make your own allusions and I'll make mine.
January 14, 2009 12:10 PM | Reply | Permalink
I am disturbed by what seems to be an underlying belief that Israel is calling the foreign policy shots of the US by both those in favor of and against the Gaza thing. It is beyond believable to me, if this is true, and sounds increasingly like another dish of conspiracy theory.
I find it far more believable that Israel functions as a proxy of US foreign policy rather than the reverse.
Why isn't the question, "Why does the Bush administration want Hamas/Gaza attacked and what are they hoping to achieve from it", being asked?
Everybody just assumes it is something Israel wants to do and since they control the US, the US just goes along with it. That just seems preposterous to me.
January 14, 2009 2:12 PM | Reply | Permalink
Q. Why does the Bush administration want Hamas/Gaza attacked and what are they hoping to achieve from it.
A. Because Gaza is where Saddam hid all his terror-tipped forty-five-minute specials. Everybody knows that!
January 14, 2009 3:22 PM | Reply | Permalink
Then again, if Obama had entrenched his foreign policy views before taking office it would have no doubt inflamed the transition process on such a divisive foreign policy issue and squandered political capital as his opinion actually held no actual levers of power yet.
I can see the case for and against Obama taking a stand prior to being sworn in, and I see far less detractors from his current course than the opposite.
January 13, 2009 12:59 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hey, MJ, have you read this?
Mainstream American politicians are famously reluctant to utter the words "suffering" and "Palestinian" in the same sentence. By breaking from that tradition, Clinton appeared to send a signal to Israel that that it would not have a free hand to operate in the Middle East.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/01/13/clinton-sympathizes-with_n_157487.html
...and the times, they are a changin'
January 13, 2009 1:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
Absolutely. It's the new Obama line. And it's lomg overdue.
January 13, 2009 1:37 PM | Reply | Permalink
Maybe someone should tell Livni. How do you like this quote from Ha'aretz:
"Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni, meanwhile, said on Tuesday the IDF offensive was serving the interest of the Palestinian people, as well as that of Israel.
Livni said the operation's success would help all moderate forces in the region, including Palestinians who believe in a two-state solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. She made the comments at a meeting with a delegation from the American Jewish Committee.
Yeah, I'm sure the Palestinians in Gaza will be thanking Livni as they bury their children.
January 13, 2009 1:56 PM | Reply | Permalink
To believe that the carnage in Gaza will somehow help Abbas consolidate the Palestinians is madness. How can Livni possibly be that obtuse?
January 13, 2009 2:15 PM | Reply | Permalink
One word: denial.
January 13, 2009 2:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
Uri Avnery calls it "moral insanity"
January 13, 2009 2:58 PM | Reply | Permalink
At least Hillary is starting to talk like a human being:
"However, we have also been reminded of the tragic humanitarian costs of conflict in the Middle East, and pained by the suffering of Palestinian and Israeli civilians," she said. "This must only increase our determination to seek a just and lasting peace agreement that brings real security to Israel; normal and positive relations with its neighbors; and independence, economic progress, and security to the Palestinians in their own state."
January 13, 2009 4:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
Let me emphasize that last line: "and independence, economic progress, and security to the Palestinians in their own state."
This doesn't sound like Hillary is buying Beyellzebub Netanyahoo's line about no-Palestinian State.
I think they massacres in Gaza are the down payment on that state.
January 13, 2009 4:28 PM | Reply | Permalink
You're deluding yourself again, Mr. Rosenberg. Hilary Clinton will not be practicing tough love on Israel. By the time she becomes Secretary of State the IDF will have eliminated enough Hamas thugs so a cease-fire will be in place. When the Egyptians fail to help enforce it, she'll be giving that tough love to Mubarak.
January 13, 2009 5:49 PM | Reply | Permalink
You think these 311 dead children will not be avenged? George Bush flew the "Mission Accomplished" banner too.
January 13, 2009 6:38 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yeah Israel, if you don't play nice we're gonna take all our bombs and go home.
January 13, 2009 5:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
Thank you, Wordie! That is hopeful! I'm gonna hang onto that too. God, help us!
January 13, 2009 2:47 PM | Reply | Permalink
Strong majorities of the US public are still heavily predisposed to sympathize with Israel. But Israel's actions make it really, really hard--and sometimes simply impossible--to do that sometimes.
Not alliance itself, but the specific form that we have allowed our alliance to take with them, is a major, perhaps the major, foreign policy albatross around our necks as we move out of the Bush era and seem ready to pursue much-enhanced and more widespread collaboration with others to address huge problems we cannot solve by ourselves.
All this has been said ad nauseum. But not often enough, publicly, by enough people with power to make a difference. Yet. The clock is ticking towards a backlash. Maybe Israel just doesn't care or feels fully prepared to go it alone or with, eventually, reduced US support. Or maybe they are arrogant enough to believe the US will never reduce its support, no matter what actions they take and don't take. What's going on in Gaza is just ugly.
Moyers' tone is unpleasantly sanctimonious at times. But he goes places very few public commentators dare to go these days. I have a lot of respect for him.
January 13, 2009 1:57 PM | Reply | Permalink
Your first sentence is incorrect. A majority of repubs sympathize with Israel. But a majority of Dems does not! And when you look at the overall numbers, there's a split. It's a big mistake to say what you did in your first sentence. The pols have yet to follow the public. And Israel, with this Gaza incursion, following Lebanon in 2006, is losing world sympathy and US sympathy. And that's a fact!
Moyers, as you may know, is an ordained minister. Thus, yes, at times he may sound sanctimonious.
January 13, 2009 2:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
I am looking at this, among other examples, some more recent.
What polls are you looking at?
January 13, 2009 3:05 PM | Reply | Permalink
Your poll is 2006. Poll taken right after this Gaza attack started:
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/general_politics/americans_closely_divided_over_israel_s_gaza_attacks
January 13, 2009 3:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
Here is the newest Pew Poll (Jan.13, 2009):
January 14, 2009 4:30 AM | Reply | Permalink
seashell and wordie, thanks for the links.
My original comment about the strong predisposition of US citizens to be supportive of Israel was meant to refer to an overall disposition towards the country, not what the US public thinks about Israel's conduct in whatever the latest blowup is. The latter can sometimes be only short-term and not effect the former after a time. I think the US public understands that the I-P conflict has been marked by a lot of violence, on an ongoing basis, for a long time, with charges and counter-charges flying in all directions.
It seems entirely possible, however, that if the US public, or large parts of it, has been disapproving of Israel's conduct in several of the more recent blowups this could have an enduring effect on overall sentiment towards the country.
As for the Dem vs. Repub split on Israel's latest conduct in Gaza, I find that interesting. It probably needs to be borne in mind, though, that self-identified Democratic members of the public are usually a good deal less favorable towards the use of military force than are Republicans, regardless of which country is involved, including our own, especially when there is no immediate provocation to which it is a response as with 9/11, for example.
January 14, 2009 8:32 AM | Reply | Permalink
I hate to get into a dueling polls debate :) , but there's at least one poll that has found very different results. The international opinion study conducted last year (before the most recent Gaza conflict) by World Public Opinion.org (a project managed by the Program on International Policy Attitudes at the University of Maryland), found that "Most Publics--including Americans--Oppose Taking Sides in Israeli-Palestinian Conflict." The article says that "Israeli, Palestinian, American and Arab Leaders All Get Low Marks On Efforts to Resolve Conflict" and "Most Favor UN Playing Robust Role in Peace Enforcement"
It further found that "No country favors taking Israel's side, including the United States, where 71 percent favor taking neither side." Surprising, eh?
http://www.worldpublicopinion.org/pipa/articles/international_security_bt/503.php?lb=btis&pnt=503&nid=&id=
It's interesting that such widely divergent results are obtained by different organizations in regard to American attitudes, but it may be a result of what's going on at the moment, or perhaps of survey construction. Even seemingly identical questions on issues as sensitive as I-P can be interpreted in very different ways by different respondents. I haven't yet had the time to dig into the questions asked by any of the polls we've been discussing, but I did notice that the World Opinion.org does make it's survey instrument available on it's website (they should be applauded for doing so). It would be great to find that Rasumussen and Pew do so as well.
January 13, 2009 4:09 PM | Reply | Permalink
You phrased it much better than I, Wordie. But the fact is that "neutrality" as a view by Americans is a decline from support.
In the past I had the sense people were on the side of Israel. Now there is tremendous sympathy for the Gazan casualties. I see a sea change here.
Thanks for expressing the whole thing better than I did. I'm a bit tired today. Worn out would be a good word. I need to give myself a break.
January 13, 2009 4:26 PM | Reply | Permalink
Thanks for the link and I hope you're feeling better soon!
January 14, 2009 8:14 AM | Reply | Permalink
55% of Democrats polled were against the Gaza Offensive and that was at its onset. I've haven't seen any polls lately. The news media is beginning to reflect a change in US public support. When will the Congress catch up?
January 14, 2009 9:09 AM | Reply | Permalink
Since you mentioned it, Agathena, there's an effort to let Congress know that the same ol' same ol' isn't what we as citizens want from them. Anyone interested in sending an email or letter to their representatives (there's a link for President-elect Obama too) can do it through this site: http://capwiz.com/justforeignpolicy/issues/alert/?alertid=12361911
January 14, 2009 2:26 PM | Reply | Permalink
Ordained minister?? That's the last thing I'd expect from such a s*itbag. Consistent though. The most strident and hypocritical dems are 'ordained ministers'.
Funny though, none of them even attend church. Unless of course it's a church in which the chant 'God D*mn America' raises a chorus of 'amen's.
January 14, 2009 9:13 AM | Reply | Permalink
Moyers has done great work over the years, and he's right about the Palestinian situation in general, but he's wrong about this particular Gaza operation.
Israel is achieving its goals, which was to degrade Hamas's military capabilities and prevent them from rearming. Yes, there is a strong anti-Israel international response, but that won't last once the cease-fire is negotiated, and the horrific images disappear from TV screens. Israel has made enough effort to limit civilian casualties that the "war crimes" charges won't stick.
The conventional liberal wisdom is that the Israeli violence will draw political support for Hamas. I don't believe this is the case, since Hamas's heroic posturing has been exposed. Not only can't they protect their own civilians, but they actively use them as cover.
The key will be to keep pressure on Israel AFTER the shooting stops. If Israel starts talking directly to Hamas and helps rebuild Gaza, it could go a long way towards restoring some sort of civility. But giving Hamas any claims of a military victory will only retart the peace process further.
January 13, 2009 3:22 PM | Reply | Permalink
MJ, agreed. Bill Moyers is fantastic.
For those who are interested: anyone can download his podcasts via several methods; I use iTunes, mp3 audio (which is excellent for ripping to CD, btw).
January 13, 2009 4:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
Sen. Clinton Deplores Indoctrination of Palestinian Children and Hamas’ Use of Children as Human Shields
Clinton: No negotiations with Hamas Until they Recognize Israel’s Right to Exist
As Sen. Hillary Clinton begins confirmation hearings today (Jan. 13) to become the United States’ next secretary of state, one issue on which she has been both vocal and clear is her outrage over the use of Palestinian classrooms to teach Palestinian children hate and violence towards Israel and the West. [1] Clinton also has deplored the use of Palestinian children as human shields by Palestinian terrorists [2] - a tactic that Iran-backed Hamas terrorists currently are practicing in Gaza. [3]
Lanny Davis, TIP spokesperson and longtime friend of Senator Clinton praised her testimony and committment to the peace process in the Middle East and said, "Senator Clinton has been a tireless advocate for children around the world. We look forward to working with her on issues that will protect all children of the Middle East no matter if they are Muslim, Jewish or Christian."
At her confirmation hearing today, Clinton said the US would not engage in dialogue with Hamas as long as it refuses to renounce violence and recognize Israel’s right to exist. [4]
At the root of the indoctrination problem, Clinton has said, are Palestinian textbooks and TV cartoons that glorify suicide missions and other means of violence and teach them that Israel should not exist. [5]
"These textbooks do not give Palestinian children an education; they give them an indoctrination,” Clinton said during a press conference on Capitol Hill in 2007. “This propaganda is dangerous. You know, words really matter…Because in idealizing for children a world without Israel, children are taught never to accept the reality of the State of Israel, never to strive for a better future that would hold out the promise of peace and security to them, and is basically a message of pessimism and fatalism that undermines the possibility for these children living lives of fulfillment and productivity.” [6]
Several years earlier, Clinton condemned Palestinian terrorists’ use of children on the front lines of battle, calling it "horrific child abuse." [7]
As Israel attempts to stop Iran-backed Hamas from its years-long campaign of firing rockets and mortars – more than 3,200 in 2008 alone [8] – Palestinian children and adults alike are being purposely placed in the line of fire by Palestinian terrorists. [9]
An Israel-Arab weekly newspaper article last week told the story of a child describing being used by Hamas as scouts, couriers and other support roles. "We the children, in small groups and in civilian clothes, are fulfilling missions of support for the [Hamas] Resistance fighters, by transmitting messages about the movements of the enemy forces, or by bringing them ammunition and food,” the child said. “We ourselves are not aware of the movements of the Resistance fighters. We see them in one place, they suddenly disappear, and then reappear somewhere else. They are like ghosts, it is very hard to find them or hurt them.” [10]
An in-depth study released this month by the Intelligence and Terrorism Information Center at the Israel Intelligence Heritage & Commemoration Center (IICC), "Hamas Exploitation of Civilians as Human Shields,” shows Hamas’ current and past use of children and other civilians as human shields, such as by firing rockets at Israel from densely populated residential areas.
The Israel Defense Forces also provided documented evidence through photos and videos, of Palestinian children being used as human shields in March 2008. Before attacking buildings Hamas terrorists used manufacture rockets, the Israel Defense Forces – to avoid civilian casualties – sent warnings to Palestinians in Gaza to leave the facilities; Hamas would then call on children and other civilians into and around the buildings. [11] Such incidents have been documented by Hamas’ own media. View clip 1; View clip 2
Hamas Parliament Member Fathi Hammad, in a speech broadcast Feb. 29, 2008 on Hamas’ Al-Aqsa TV, said, "[The enemies of Allah] do not know that the Palestinian people has developed its [methods] of death and death-seeking. For the Palestinian people, death has become an industry, at which women excel, and so do all the people living on this land. The elderly excel at this, and so do the mujahideen and the children. This is why they have formed human shields of the women, the children, the elderly, and the mujahideen, in order to challenge the Zionist bombing machine. It is as if they were saying to the Zionist enemy: 'We desire death like you desire life.'" [12]
Hamas has continued to fire rockets during the temporary humanitarian cease-fire imposed daily to allow a free flow of humanitarian aid into Gaza, much of which is directed at children’s needs. Israel Air Force footage of a Hamas mortar crew operating inside a Gaza school compound, and a Hamas rocket salvo being fired at an Israeli city, during the three hour humanitarian hiatus on 8 Jan 2009:
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Footnotes:
[1] “Senator Clinton Joins with Palestinian Media Watch to Release New Report on Continuing Anti-Israel Bias in Palestinian Textbooks,” Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton Statements & Releases, Feb. 9, 2007, http://clinton.senate.gov/news/statements/details.cfm?id=269046&&
[2] Marcus, Itamar and Crook, Barbara, “Seducing Children to Martyrdom,” The Jerusalem Post, July 4, 2006, http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1150885912208&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull
[3] “Hamas Exploitation of Civilians as Human Shields,” Intelligence and Terrorism Information Center at the Israel Intelligence Heritage & Commemoration Center (IICC), January 2009, http://www.terrorism-info.org.il/malam_multimedia/English/eng_n/pdf/hamas_e028.pdf
[4] Clinton rules out negotiations with Hamas, AFP, Jan. 12, 2009, http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5jHxrse1HSFMc4tFdmUrRrgZL1tcA
[5] “Senator Clinton Joins with Palestinian Media Watch to Release New Report on Continuing Anti-Israel Bias in Palestinian Textbooks,” Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton Statements & Releases, Feb. 9, 2007, http://clinton.senate.gov/news/statements/details.cfm?id=269046&&
[6] “Hillary Clinton’s full statement introducing PMW’s report on Palestinian schoolbook[sic],” Palestinian Media Watch, Feb. 8, 2007, http://www.pmw.org.il/Bulletins_Feb2007.htm
[7] Marcus, Itamar and Crook, Barbara, “Seducing Children to Martyrdom,” The Jerusalem Post, July 4, 2006
[8] IDF Spokesperson’s Unit, Dec. 19, 2008; “Iran-backed Terrorists in Gaza Kill 3, Wound Others in Continuing Rocket Attacks on Israel,” The Israel Project press release, Dec. 29, 2008, http://www.theisraelproject.org/site/apps/nlnet/content2.aspx?c=hsJPK0PIJpH&b=3587015&content_id={4F0CF025-98BF-4875-A59B-B1F5E4B079F7}¬oc=1;
Barzak, Ibrahim and Friedman, Matti, “Israel rejects truce call, pursues bombing Gaza,” Associated Press, Dec. 31, 2008, http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5ioi_0jtO9RjMwPNRoXNCndRPRq3gD95DQIEO0
[9] Ibid.
[10] Marcus, Itamar and Crook, Barbara, “Hamas using children in combat support roles,” Palestinian Media Watch, Jan. 9, 2009, http://www.pmw.org.il/Bulletins_Jan2009.htm
[11] “Hamas exploitation of civilians as human shields: Photographic evidence,” Ministry of Foreign Affairs Web site, March 6, 2008, http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/Terrorism-+Obstacle+to+Peace/Hamas+war+against+Israel/Hamas+exploitation+of+civilians+as+human+shields+-+Photographic+evidence.htm
[12] Ibid
January 13, 2009 5:46 PM | Reply | Permalink
sageemetchai,
Hillary is working for Obama now, she's no longer a free agent.
January 13, 2009 5:55 PM | Reply | Permalink
Only an idiot would think that she accepted his offer to become Secretary of State without making sure that she and he saw eye-eye about Israel and Hamas.
January 13, 2009 9:03 PM | Reply | Permalink
sageemetchai: You apparently need to be reminded about what Clinton said today:
During the primary, Clinton did not breathe a single word of sympathy for the plight of the Palestinians, but Obama did, even, as MJ noted in an article he wrote at the time, at the AIPAC Conference! So it's clear who's calling the shots in this situation. Clinton is following instructions from the President-elect, not the other way around.
I didn't vote for Clinton, but with Obama as President, I think she'll make an excellent SoS. She's the penultimate policy wonk (only her husband can outdo her), and I think that's perfect for SoS.
BTW, sagee, when you cut & paste it's customary (and good manners) to give credit to the original author and provide a link to the original article.
January 13, 2009 10:50 PM | Reply | Permalink
Bill Moyer Journal is a jewel but I'm sure that his program is not watched by many Americans. PBS is not afraid to broadcast very sensitive programs such as Frontline, Bill Moyer Journal
January 13, 2009 6:28 PM | Reply | Permalink
Not many Americans can stomach such Marxist dribble. If it weren't taxpayer funded, none of that offal would exist.
January 14, 2009 9:30 AM | Reply | Permalink
Wrong again, spric.
What government support ensures for PBS is the independence of the programming and its access by everyone (even poor people who don't have cable). A huge portion of their programming is educational (daytime), and that is the primary reason for the government subsidy. (Or do you think Sesame Street could be improved by adding lots of commercials for McDonald's and super-sweetened cereals??)
Direct viewer support funds more than 26% of PBS's budget, and almost all of the primetime programming. I give generously to PBS, and would give even more if it meant keeping Bill Moyers on the air.
The mainstream corporatized media wouldn't allow Bill Moyers to speak truth to power -- that much is true. But that is the reason PBS exists.
Imagine if Fox News had to rely on viewer funding (instead of corporate support and R. Murdoch's own personal fortune). Hannity and O'Reily would never have a platform.
-- ARG
January 14, 2009 5:56 PM | Reply | Permalink
arg,
If a nativity scene on a courthouse lawn violates someones freedom of religion, as the courts have decided, then state sponsorship of a 'journalist' violates my freedom of speech. Get it?
I wish the feds would sponsor some crackpot like O'Reiley. Enough people would get up in arms that this thing would come to a head.
January 15, 2009 6:50 AM | Reply | Permalink
spric says:
January 15, 2009 9:43 AM | Reply | Permalink
Okay, I'll go along with your take on it. A nativity scene on a courthouse lawn promotes a certain religion. Then certainly state sponsorship of Bill Moyers opinions promotes his certain Marxist point of view. It's apples and apples.
All that dribble about tax credits is meaningless digression. I don't even understand where you're coming from with that.
January 15, 2009 11:47 AM | Reply | Permalink
spric says;
If you cut down your time over at Free Republic you might then get an idea on how to follow the line I drew.
By the way, you're mixing apples and elephants again. Now go away, shoo!
January 15, 2009 3:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
John,
You're just being unfriendly now.
January 17, 2009 8:44 AM | Reply | Permalink
Just before Bill Moyers' editorial comment about Gaza he had as a guest, the head of the Steel Workers Union, as I recall, and that was very interesting. I had never heard of that man, which just shows how uninformed I am, but he was solidly on the side of universal health care, and equally solidly for card check voting for unionizing. It was an inspiring interview.
Watching Bill Moyers take on a subject is always inspiring, and his editorial about Gaza was no exception.
January 13, 2009 7:31 PM | Reply | Permalink
Card check system for unionizing,
Isn't that where a couple of union thugs stand behind an employee with saps when he's casting a ballot? How democratic!! Matter of fact, that's the best example of core democrat party thinking I can come up with!!
January 17, 2009 11:42 AM | Reply | Permalink
no
January 17, 2009 10:22 PM | Reply | Permalink
During World War II, more than a million German civilians were killed, many of them children who were burned to death by Allied carpetbombing. Meanwhile, few American civilians were killed.
Applying Moyers' convoluted reasoning, that would make the Second World War an unjust and inhumane enterprise. Yet the Allies' cause was one of the most moral and decent causes ever. The American-led alliance saved the world from Nazism, a result that some on this site apparently still rue. The Allies used deadly force to combat fascism, and a component of that fascism was genocidal anti-Semitism.
Israel is also justified in forcefully defeating fascistic, genocidal anti-Semitism. Just as Hitler's depravity was responsible for the German casualties, Hamas and its supporters are to blame for Palestinian deaths.
When you declare a war to death, that is exactly what you get. Hitler learned the hard way, and now his devoted fans in Hamas (and on TPM) are learning that cruel lesson once again.
January 13, 2009 7:31 PM | Reply | Permalink
Your underlying assumption is that there is such a thing as a War Crime committed during a War. If there actually were, then certainly we committed War Crimes during WW2.
Google Dresden and it's clear the bombing was intended to kill Germans. Full Stop.It came at the conclusion of the Yalta conference and the Russians, who were days away from occupying Dresden requested we bomb the train station.Full Stop.
Instead Dresden was treated as we know it was. While there isn't uniformity, most historians attribute the attack to the UK's"Bomber" Harris and Churchill acting out of a mixture of two motives:simple revenge and a tactical argument that by killing vast numbers of German civilians we would encourage the remainder to revolt.
Perhaps a description of Ehud Barak now.
It did not occur in a vacuum. The Americans preferred day attacks because you could indeed attack a military target. For instance a train station.The British preferred night attacks which could only be employed against a target as large as a city.(See:The Past Has Another Pattern by George W Ball, page 42 and the following)
So Dresden was a War Crime. Or rather would have been if there were such a thing.
Hiroshima does not need any description.
Neither that European saturation bombing nor
the atom bombing of Japan and the yet more deadly fire bombing of Tokyo mean that our prosecution of the WW2 was "unjust and inhumane". Of course , if we'd lost we'd have been prosecuted for War Crimes just as we did the Germans. And , as Senator Taft said at the time of Nurenberg it would have been "Victor's Justice".
Because in a War every power does whatever it thinks will help it win. And the honest definition of a War Crime is something done by the other side
So no the IDF is not committing War Crimes. Neither is Hamas.
Neither was Hitler during the Battle of Britain. Nor was the RAF at Dresden.Nor Trumans in re Hiroshima
Nothing, repeat nothing done by a warring power in order to win is a war crime. It's just a tactic.
Those of you who support Israel's Gaza campaign should cease trying to defend the IDF against a non existent crime. As should those who support Hamas. There are no war criminals on either side because there's no such animal.
There isan intellectually respectable argument that the Holocaust deserves indictment not as a War Crime but as a "Crime Against Humanity" not only because of its horror but because it was not donein order to win
In fact it made winning less likely. Consider Eichman's last minute evacuation of the Hungarian Jews in order to kill them before the about-to- enter Russians rescued them. Rather than contributing to winning the war that evacuation clogged the transport system and impeded winning the war. Killing for killing's sake rather than as a tactic.
But when it comes to actions intended to win a war
the term "War Crimes" is pure cant.
We can accuse either Israel or Hamas of stupid tactics. Which I think has been the case of Israel's campaign since about the fifth day when ,as David Grossman suggested, it should have halted while announcing it would resume in response to the next missile.
That would have put Hamas
in the position of being clearly responsible.
And if Hamas had then resumed missiling that would have been a stupid tactic.
And they would probably have been accused of War Crimes.
Incorrectly.Because there's no such thing.
January 13, 2009 8:34 PM | Reply | Permalink
Anne said:
Do you really believe that resistance to the Occupation is rooted entirely in a "fascistic, genocidal anti-Semitism" or can you acknowledge that some of it is rooted in the Occupation itself? Is Palestinian violence in general justified, because of the brutal and violent nature of the Occupation? (And if you don't believe it's been brutal, check out http://www.btselem.org/English )
Can we therefore also say that Israel is responsible for the Israeli deaths from Hamas rockets? Note that I don't think we can, but then I didn't make the original claim about Hamas. If you are consistent it seems to me that you must also find Israel responsible for Israeli deaths.
January 13, 2009 11:06 PM | Reply | Permalink
Them Semites knew there were Germans in Germany when they slipped in there. Semites wound up being victims of an efficiently Teutonic pogrom.
The Boers knew there were Zulus in South Africa when they slipped in there. It doesn't seem to bother you the pogrom against white South Africans going on there now. Just exactly what is the difference other than the inherent efficiency of the people involved?
January 14, 2009 8:42 AM | Reply | Permalink
flavius and Anne, both too stupid for words, both posts based on an equivalency between Hamas and Israel which falls to pieces at the first look at a map or a history book. What a conbination, Orientalism and Glibertarianism all at once!
Both combined with a vicarious brutality which would be sickening if it wasn't so endemic.
January 13, 2009 9:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
I reject your characterization of my comments as vicarious brutality.
As an adolescent I listened to WW2 veterans describe what war fare is actually like.One repeated story -was of the company commander instructing a soldier to "take these guys(disarmed prisoners)back to the holding area (2 miles away) and be back in five minutes".
If you haven't had that experience I can understand why you think describing something is the same as endorsing it. But however open to mischaracterization I'll say what I think. One reason we enter wars far too easily is that we believe the Army's attractive official spokewoman who describes our troops rescuing enemy babies.
No surprise when those who know better are silent because they know the truth will be unpopular
Her first step in winning voter support for a "Desert Storm" or "Enduring Freedom" is to con us-or rather you- into believing it'll be a contest between our baby-savers and the War Criminals on the other side.
Part of being a good citizen is learning what's really going on. If you get the chance, try it.
January 13, 2009 11:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yeah, I can confirm that. My uncle was a 'field commissioned' captain in that big misunderstanding. He related the early return of guards were limited to when they were escorting captured SS. Wehrmacht prisoners were generally treated acceptably. But it's still kinda like murder, isn't it?
January 14, 2009 9:25 AM | Reply | Permalink
I think the killing was more widespread in the Pacific. I was friendly, for a while, with a German who reminisced with pleasure about being a POW of the Canadians.
For a while because when I returned from a course taught in Dachau , of all places, Eric said, out of the blue,
"Oh you've been to Dachau".
"Yes".
"I suppose you believe what they tell you there"
"Eric, nobody told me anything" (which was true, the small museum was completely deserted) "but I have eyes and I could see for myself"
"You don't know what they were like.
January 14, 2009 9:50 AM | Reply | Permalink
I believe there were few Germans who knew about that genocide at the time it happened, even in the high command, and few now who deny it happened.
January 14, 2009 12:19 PM | Reply | Permalink
I agree that few germans now deny the Holocaust.
Obviously most knew at the time that the Jews had been taken away.Without knowing the exact details.But some things were sufficiently public so that I think it's reasonable to say that it was known that they were subject to extreme maltreatment. I was struck by photos in the Dachau museum showing the emaciated prisoners being marched down the main street of the town apparently on their way to work for the day. Past housewives lined up in front of a bakery.
Also by a memo written from a higher level of , I suppose, the SS to the Camp Commander( I could read German).It was a business memo. The Commander was instructed to charge the local farmers, say, a Mark a day for the use of a prisoner. And the prisoners were kept in a section of the camp where their food would cost no more than , say, 50 pfennig per day....
Until the prisoners were so weak that the farmers refused to pay. Then the prisoners were to be rented out for , say , 60 pf/day. And moved to a separate section of the camp where the food only cost , say, 30pf/day.
I no longer recall what was directed for when the farmers wouldn't pay the lower price.
January 14, 2009 2:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
Regrettable, terrible, yeah ugly.
January 15, 2009 6:57 AM | Reply | Permalink
I don't think you really read my post, or understood it's point. In fact, I'm sure you didn't, since you see in it a "vicarious brutality" that just is not there. But since you're so much smarter than I, why not describe what exactly it is that you see when you "first look at a map or a history book." Enligten me.
January 14, 2009 2:13 PM | Reply | Permalink
I agree that Israel and Hamas have both done some terrible things. You can't justify suicide bombings, especially using teenagers to commit them. You can't justify firing rockets into civilian areas. To a large extent, Hamas was responsible for the walls going up, and the cheeckpoints to keep the suicide bombers out. There is no doubt that Israel has not taken adequate steps to prevent civilian casualties, and used some weapons, such as projectiles soaked in phospherous, that maximized them. You can't defend the building of settlements either or the wholesale destruction of Gaza's infrastructure, or going after Gaza's civil servants, such as policemen. It just seems like a lot of the posts here are directed solely at Israel. Intransigence on both sides, and the unnecessary resort to violence caused this. My two cents...
January 13, 2009 10:36 PM | Reply | Permalink
There are two issues here-- the action in Gaza, and Israeli policy in general.
Regarding the action in Gaza, Moyers is incorrect.
However, regarding 40 years of Israeli policy in general, Moyers is correct.
We know what the ceasefire is going to look like, and it will probably happen in the next day or two. Israel will pull out, Egypt will accept international border monitors to help prevent arms smuggling, and Hamas will be left with a big pile of rubble and a hollow claim to victory. Once the Hamas leadership emerges from the holes where they've been hiding they'll probably reevaluate their strategy.
January 13, 2009 10:56 PM | Reply | Permalink
Unless your name rally is Anne Frank, it's a hell of an assumption.
WWII was started by one clear agressor. The others acted in self-defence. Eight, yes, eight (perhaps nine) nations fell under the German heel before they reached the Channel, and a number more before the US entered the war.
Of course there are such things as war crimes. That's why there are the Geneva conventions and signatories. That's why there are agreements to ban chemical and biological weapons. Do some crimes go unpunished? Sure.
But here's an overbrief history lesson.
By the time of WWII, the British (and the world) had witnessed Guernica, carried out mostly by German aircraft.
In taking Poland, the Germans had shown no discrimination in aircraft bombing or artillery shelling during the invasion and the assault on Warsaw.
Following the "phoney war", Germany's bombing assault on Amsterdam and Rotterdam was again indiscriminate.
Following the Luftwaffe indiscriminate attack on the London populace, Churchill instructed a retaliatory raid on Berlin that Goering had boasted would "never" be bombed.
Even at this time the RAF was incapable of navigating or hitting precision targets even in daylight, which was a tactical impossibility, let alone night bombing. Thus, in the battle for national survival the strategic night bombing offensive was set in stone to the detriment of the German (and other civil populations) for the course of the war.
Israel is under no such immediate threat to its existence, nor does it lack the tools of precision. Nor is Israel at war.
Because it controls all the land and all exits, by international law Israel is in control and occupies both Gaza and the West Bank whether it has troops there or not and, as such, has to conform to international law, to which it is mostly under obligation, as an occupier.
These are big differneces you fail to see.
Punishing the populace for the sins of a few, and disproportionately so, are both crimes.
If the British had ghettoed the Nothern Irish Catholics and then systematically shot them up over the course of 5 years -- as the Israelis have the Gazans -- the Boston Irish would have been on the streets. Yet a minority of Catholics targeted British troops and innocent civilians.
You're not a bigot, I don't suppose, but you are talking like one.
January 14, 2009 12:37 AM | Reply | Permalink
Here is the true face of HAMAS and what they really think about Jews and Israel. MJ, don't you read it, it might upset the fantasies you enjoy:
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/14/opinion/14goldberg-1.html?_r=1
January 14, 2009 3:05 AM | Reply | Permalink
Goldberg served in the IDF. He's as credible as Baghdad Bob.
January 14, 2009 10:12 AM | Reply | Permalink
The first article delineates Israel's strategic blunder. Read number one first and then number two.
1. Israel Doesn't Get 4GW
by William S. Lind
2. At Cairo Hospital, Injured Palestinians Increasingly Voice Support for Hamas
Washington Post
The bigger the military the bigger the mistakes.
January 14, 2009 3:45 AM | Reply | Permalink
Everyone said that when the war began that the Arab "street" would be convulsed with rage, bringing down the regimes that are pro-American and anti-HAMAS and HIZBULLAH. Has that happened? Do you see mass rioting against the FATAH-controlled Palestinian Aurthority regime in Judea/Samaria? Sure, Arab regimes are quite willing to use force against protestors, but even so, if the rage was so palpable, people would be willing to march against the regime anyway. Those Arabs who hated Israel before this war hate it just the same now.
January 14, 2009 4:20 AM | Reply | Permalink
Thanks for posting this and widening the audience for it. Here is the video that accompanies your transcript:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Efm9uAnUU00
January 14, 2009 4:44 AM | Reply | Permalink
Thanks.
January 14, 2009 5:13 AM | Reply | Permalink
Thank you, Ms. Frank, for speaking truth to nonsense. I will contribute to the next PBS fundraising drive as soon as PBS gives you a half hour of primetime air time to respond to Moyers.
January 14, 2009 9:54 AM | Reply | Permalink
The Arab world has more to fear from Iran and Iran-backed Hamasand Hezbolah than from Israel, as evidenced by their tacit acceptance of the attack on Hamas.
By the way, does it matter that Palestinian political organization was originally inspired by European fascism, and was explicitly and publicly allied with the Nazis and committed to the eradication of the Jews If Rommel had won the battle for North Africa, teams of ARAB Waffen SS were ready, trained in occupied Greece and supplied by the Nazis with gas chamber trucks, to continue the final solution in the Arab lands. The Grand Mufti of Jerusalem (uncle of Arafat and emotional father/hero of the Palestinian movement) instigated this.
Oh, and Israel is actually at war, a war declared by all the Arab countries in 1948. Those famous and mythical "1968 borders" are, of course, merely an armistice line, where the troops were when the shooting (temporarily) stopped.
The fascist connection is well documented. Current public and documentary statements support it. Testimony at Nuremberg even "credited" the Grand Mufti with pushing the Hitler regime towards eradication as the answer to the "Jewish Question." Whether he was an architect or just a fan of genocide, he said he would go to his grave in peace knowing that five million Jews had been killed.
Ask yourself why a democracy that holds itself to a higher moral standard than the vast majority of nations should be reviled as Israel is in most leftist discussions, and fascists explicitly committed to genocide are lionized.
Read Thomas Friedman today, and read some history, besides.
Questions for further study:
Why are there no Jews in refugee camps? (500,00 were displaced from Arab lands in 1948; what of their "right of return?")
Why do most of you believet that UN 242 requires Israel to return all of the land taken by Israel in war, when the plain language of the resolution, and documentation and interviews with the principals in the debate, clearly show otherwise?
Why will most of you be surprised to learn, when you try to prove me wrong, that 60% of ancient Palestine was given to Jordan, leaving Israel with around 20% and Palestinian territories less than that.
Extra credit (very short) essay: Discuss the history of local Arab political control of Palestine (it has never existed) and Palestinian language, literature, and cultural identity before WWI (don't waste too much time searching).
January 14, 2009 10:08 AM | Reply | Permalink
Thanks to you too, bruno2, for trying to inject truth into a miasma of lies. My offer to contribute to PBS goes for you as well, though I suspect I won't be donating anytime soon.
January 14, 2009 12:08 PM | Reply | Permalink
Thanks, Bruno you pretty much listed every hasbara argument in one post:
1. The Palestinians are Nazis. Check.
2. Jordan is Palestine. Check.
3. Palestinians aren't really a people. Check.
Now, if only you had included "Palestine was uninhabited" when the Zionist Pioneers arrived, you'd have won a free bus trip to Baruch Goldstein's shrine.
January 14, 2009 5:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
user-pic
I am disturbed by what seems to be an underlying belief that Israel is calling the foreign policy shots of the US by both those in favor of and against the Gaza thing. It is beyond believable to me, if this is true, and sounds increasingly like another dish of conspiracy theory.
I find it far more believable that Israel functions as a proxy of US foreign policy rather than the reverse.
Why isn't the question, "Why does the Bush administration want Hamas/Gaza attacked and what are they hoping to achieve from it", being asked?
Everybody just assumes it is something Israel wants to do and since they control the US, the US just goes along with it. That just seems preposterous to me.
January 14, 2009 2:15 PM | Reply | Permalink
MJ, thanks for bringing this to our attention - I've long admired Mr. Moyers, and appreciate his journalism.
There's something that has been nagging me for some time on this, and I've finally managed to articulate it.
The Israeli government and arms industry has made some impressive advances in anti-missile and anti-artillery technology.
They've taken the Patriot system and improved it, deploying it as the Arrow. Obviously such a system is geared towards ballistic missiles, is of little utility against Katyushas, or the more low-tech Qassam.
They have also been cooperating with the US to developing systems that can track and destroy artillery shells. I don't recall whether they were testing them or had already reached the deployment stage - the article I recall is at least 2 years old at this time - I don't recall if it was NYT, Janes, what have you.
The thing nagging at me - if they've got these systems, even in the stage of advanced development ... why haven't they been used to protect the communities at risk from rocket fire from Gaza?
What does that mean, if they could have and chose not to? Qui bono?
January 14, 2009 4:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
Thanks for another timely report.
Moyers is from a prior era when integrity, relevance and outspokenness were more highly valued in U.S. journalism than today. What he says in this excerpt does not go hugely beyond common sense and basic fairness but he articulates it skillfully and forthrightly yielding just the antidote needed against the sea of hypocritical and deceptive propaganda on behalf of Israeli hawks that pervades the mainstream media in the U.S.
January 14, 2009 5:43 PM | Reply | Permalink
"Moyers is from a prior era when integrity, relevance and outspokenness were more highly valued in U.S. journalism than today."
Hah!!
Moyers displays so much overt Marxist bias he can't get a job in the real world. If we taxpayers weren't signing his paycheck, he'd be sitting in some housing project waiting for the first O.
January 15, 2009 7:17 AM | Reply | Permalink
Sorry, spric, but you're just DEAD WRONG.
Again.
Taxpayers are NOT signing Bill Moyers's paycheck. Period.
From the PBS website:
http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/about/faq.html#funding
Get it?
-- ARG
January 15, 2009 10:46 AM | Reply | Permalink
Okay, I get it. But even so I see it like these taxpayer funded football stadiums built around the country. Taxpayers are not signing the checks for the football players, but they're out a bundle for their work platform.
January 15, 2009 3:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
Moyers is wrong to compare Israel's actions to that of the US in Vietnam or Iraq. First, in neither of those wars was the US being attacked by a people sworn to destroy it and kill its citizens. Vietnamese and Iraqis were not blowing themselves up in discos or cafes in NYC, nor firing sniper shots at motorists driving into the city. Hamas, Islamic Jihad, Al Aska Martyrs Brigade, et al, are sworn to the destruction of a UN created state. The PLO began its terrorism against Israel in 1965, two years before Israel controlled Gaza or the West Bank. Furthermore, Hamas intentionally uses women and children as human shields. It fires from behind them and (sometimes forcefully) places them between itself and the IDF knowing and hoping the IDF will kill those civilians. Everyone reading and commenting here lives in the safety and security of the US. None of you have experienced eight years of rockets being fired at you and your family. Over 10,000 rockets in 8 years; 6,000 rockets since 2005. It is EASY to criticize and pontificate when it's not your life or your families' life at risk. If the Palestinians laid down their arms, there would be peace tomorrow. If the Israelis laid down their arms, Israel would cease to exist.
January 22, 2009 9:34 AM | Reply | Permalink