No Other Option?!
I watch in shock, like the rest of the world, at the appalling death and destruction being wrought on Gaza by Israel; and still it does not stop. Meanwhile, we see a seemingly never-ending army of well-prepared Israeli war propagandists, some Israeli government officials, and many other people self-enlisted for the purpose, explaining to the world the justifications for pulverizing the Gaza Strip, with its 1.5 million inhabitants. Curious about how Israel, or any society for that matter, could justify a crime of such magnitude against humanity, I turned to my Jewish Israeli friends today to hear their take on things. One after another, the theme was the same. The vast majority of Jewish Israelis has apparently bought into the state-sponsored line that Israel was under attack and had no other option available to stop Hamas' rockets. More frightening is the revelation that many Israelis--including one person who self-identifies as a former "peace activist"--are speaking of accepting the killing of 100,000 or more Palestinians, if need be.
I have a problem with this logic.
I am a Palestinian American based in Al-Bireh, the sister city of Ramallah in the West Bank. I can see how an observer from abroad could be blind to the facts, given the blitz of Gaza war propaganda orchestrated by the Israeli military. But I know better. Like all other Palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank, I am not an observer from abroad. We live every day under the bitter burden of Israeli military occupation and we know that this question, presented as rhetorical--did we really have an option? --has a rational answer. Allow me, from my vantage point as an economic development professional, to touch on some of the other options that could have been chosen. Moreover, many of them will be forced on Israel anyway, sooner or later, whether after the next "war," or in the coming days under the ceasefire agreement and the Egyptian-sponsored implementation mechanism being discussed as I write this. Meaning: all this death and destruction could have been easily avoided.
Dear Israeli citizen, short of ending the occupation, you could have:
1. Opted to agree on how to disagree: There are two bodies of law that deal with international relations in this world, International Law and the Law of the Jungle. Until today, your government--and maybe you--refuse to accept the global consensus that the Gaza Strip and West Bank, including East Jerusalem, are all militarily occupied territory. The occupying power is Israel--as attested in dozens of United Nations resolutions over the past four decades. By ignoring this fact that Israel is an occupying power, thus removing (unsuccessfully, of course) any internationally recognized baseline for the conflict, you have created an environment that can only be described as the "Law of the Jungle," where might is right and where, as we see in Gaza now, anything goes. You could have accepted international humanitarian law, as stipulated in the Fourth Geneva Conventions regulating occupations, and avoided many of the seemingly impossible positions you find yourself in today: from the albatross of the settlement enterprise to the reality of missile attacks from the Gaza Strip.
2. Opted to allow for an international presence in the occupied territory: For over 30 years - yes, 30 years! - the Palestinians have begged the international community to create and maintain a serious presence in the occupied territory, something to stand between us and protect the civilians on both sides. Israel repeatedly refused to consider this. Instead your government chose to deal with the Palestinian territory as if it was its own, always behaving in line with its meta-objective: getting a maximum of Palestinian geography with a minimum of Palestinian demography. You could have avoided dealing directly with the natural reaction of any occupied people to resist their occupation, by allowing international players to get involved and serve as a sort of referee between you and those you are occupying militarily.
3. Opted to accept lawful non-violent resistance to your occupation: For over 40 years, Palestinians have tried everything to remove the Israeli boot of occupation from our necks (all documented, for anyone interested enough to do the research): tax revolts, general strikes, civil disobedience, economic development, elections, and on and on. Your response every time was to rely on violence, on control; your message was that you respect nothing other than your own desires. Your children on the front line in Gaza may be too young to recall, but you might remind them, so that they will at least be informed as they march ahead to your drummers: Let them know you deported duly elected mayors back in the 1980s; let them know that you closed down entire Palestinian universities for years on end; let them know that you have imprisoned over 650,000 Palestinians since your occupation began, creating a virtual prison university for the resistance movement and stunning any possibility for a new leadership to arise; let them know that even after Oslo you prohibit, to this day, Palestinians from building fully independent utilities--not only in Gaza, but in the West Bank as well. You could have tried a little harder to understand that people under occupation do not throw flowers and rice at their occupiers and resolve to surrender to a slow death.
4. Opted to accept the results of Palestinian democracy: For Palestinians, and believe it or not Israelis too, the best thing that happened in the recent past was when Hamas was chosen in peaceful elections to take over the governance of Palestine. Prior to those elections, where was Hamas? They were in their underground bunkers carrying out atrocities that were disrupting your daily agenda--and mine--with absolutely no accountability whatsoever. When they accepted the Oslo process and ran for office and were duly elected, they stopped, for all intent and purpose, attacking inside Israel (by which I mean, inside the Green Line). Your citizens become significantly safer! Your government (and the U.S.) responded by refusing to accept the results of our elections and imposed sanctions on the elected Palestinian government. This was long before any violent infighting took place in Gaza between Hamas and Fatah. How did the Palestinians react to your intransigence? They pressed Hamas to replace its Hamas-only government with a unity government that had all the significant Palestinian political factions represented. You were thus presented with an accountable body that encompassed all Palestinian political flavors. Your government again responded by refusing to accept the results of our elections and continued with sanctions against the Palestinian government, repeating over and over the mantra that "there is no partner." Beyond that, the Israeli government intensified its campaign of assassinating and arresting Palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank and introduced a whole new range of draconian punitive measures against the Palestinian public at large. Like what, you ask? Well, one such measure was that your government began blocking foreign nationals--people like me--from entering or doing business in the occupied territory, thus hindering any real chance to create a new, forward-looking reality. You could have accepted Palestinian democracy instead of propping up your own version of a failed Palestinian leadership.
5. Opted not to interfere in Palestinian internal politics: When Hamas violently struck at Fatah in Gaza--for reasons that have been well documented elsewhere--your government chose to punish all 1.5 million Palestinians by installing a hermetic seal on Gaza and allowing only a trickle of normal traffic to go in or out, meeting only a small fraction of Gaza's needs. Lest you suspect me of indulging in empty clichés, I shall explain. International agencies have estimated that Gaza's daily basic needs amount to 450 truckloads a day. For 18 months prior to your aggression on Gaza, your government allowed 70 truckloads a day on average. Yes, seventy! And these were allowed to enter only when the border crossings that you control were open, which was only 30% of the time. You could have chosen not to use food, medicine, education, cement, water, electricity, and so forth, as tools of repression. If you saw yourselves accurately as the occupying power you are, you could have kept in place a lawful security regime on the borders without creating a humanitarian disaster which led to irrational acts (such as missiles being lobbed over the border) by those you tried to starve into submission. You could have made a firm distinction between your political desires and your humanitarian obligations as an occupying power.
This list could go on and on.
The fact of the matter is that you had a long list of options open to you! So many, indeed, that it boggles the mind that your government has apparently been able to blind you to all of them...so that today, as the bombs shriek over Gaza, you can say, and evidently sincerely mean it: We had no other option.
Nevertheless, even with all these options effectively invisible to you, there is nothing on this earth--not law, not politics, not even a desperate and lengthy campaign of rockets creating widespread fear and even some civilian deaths on your side of the border--there is nothing that can justify, by Israel or any other country on this earth, the decision to opt for a crime against humanity as your chosen response. Nothing!
You accepted your government's path to separate unilaterally from occupied Palestinians; you accepted an illegal barrier to be built on confiscated Palestinian lands; you accepted a unilateral disengagement that simply redeployed your occupation from the heart of Gaza to its perimeter, on land and sea and in the air, rather than actually removing it; you accepted the continuing expansion of your settlements and their systematic harassment of their Palestinian neighbors while talking peace; you accepted, and sadly continue to accept, a consensual blindness to the fact that the majority of Palestinians live as refugees, far from your occupation (practically, not geographically), and feel much more rage than you have lately been creating in the Gaza Strip. I urge you to stop acquiescing in this policy of managed unreality. I urge you to open your eyes and wake up. If not for our sake, then for your own.
You may not see us over the Separation Wall you built; you may not see us from the cockpits of your F-16s or from the inside of your tanks; you may not see us from the command and control center in the heart of Tel Aviv as you direct your pilots to launch their ton of munitions over our heads. Still, I can assure you of one thing. Until you wake up and demand that your leaders choose a different path, a path toward a life as equals and neighbors instead of trampler-on and trampled-on, you and your warrior sons and daughters will continue to see us--all of us, living and dead--in your nightmares, where we will continue to demand peace with justice.
Sam Bahour is a management consultant and entrepreneur living in Ramallah; he is co-editor of "Homeland: Oral History of Palestine and Palestinians," and blogs at epalestine.blogspot.com.
For the 63 thousandth time, is recognition of Israel's right to exist in there anywhere? Sorry bud, but that's the ultimate deal breaker.
Personally, I think Israel should treat the Palestinians like the children you are. The best solution is that from TV shows teaching parents how to tame their children:
* Define the offense (rockets at Israel)
* Define the punishment for said offense. (A rocket in return for each from Hamas.)
* Apply consistently. (Every time)
In this way it is totally up to Hamas whether to provoke a response, and what the penalty is. Hamas would have total control over it's quality of life. But sadly, Palestinians would rather kill Israelis than save it's own children. Tsk. Too bad.
* Don't like separation walls? Don't suicide bomb.
* Want land? Earn it like everyone else. You have no right to it.
* Want peace? Surrender and accept Israel as neighbors. You lost, you have no claim. Decide whether you want to pursue peace and prosperity, or kill Jews. It's all up to you.
January 10, 2009 4:47 PM | Reply | Permalink
January 10, 2009 4:55 PM | Reply | Permalink
Which just highlights what a good idea it is to keep Gaza blockaded and the West Bank walled off.
January 10, 2009 5:05 PM | Reply | Permalink
Oh yeah, the doctrine of preemptive war crimes.
You're a real piece of work Mr. Pooter242, or is it Spewter?
First you say that suicide bombers need be responded to, but when presented with facts, you change your tune; dancing the jig of the moral relativist all the while.
January 10, 2009 5:45 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'll give you an answer to your questions.
No country has a right to throw half it's population off its land and deny them the right to vote in order to maintain a demographic majority for a minority of its population.
No modern civil society would have an interest in such a crime.
No - Israel does not have a right to import 3,000,000 settlers while it keeps 3,000,000 Palestinians penned into camps.
No- The surrounding countries have no obligation to take in every refugee any more than Colombia would be obliged to take in every Venezuelan refugee should the US decide to invade and repopulate with Cuban exiles.
No - I have little more than pity for the Russians in Sderot.
Yes- I worry more for the 1.5.Million in Gaza, a population that has been penned in for 18 years.
Yes- Zionism is racism. And finally
No -A racist state can not be said to have a"right" to exist.
I will not defend racists, and I will not defend their desire to remove the niggers from their midst. That is what this is about. That is what this has always been about.
I was born and I have lived my entire life in a multi-ethnic democracy. I defend the rule of law, not kind.
If you're not willing to defend it, then you're free to leave
January 11, 2009 2:10 AM | Reply | Permalink
"If I was an Arab leader I would never make terms with Israel. That is natural: we have taken their country. Sure God promised it to us, but what does that matter to them? Our God is not theirs. We come from Israel, but two thousand years ago, and what is that to them? There has been antisemitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault? They only see one thing: we have come here and stolen their country. Why should they accept that?"
"We must expel Arabs and take their places."
"We must use terror, assassination, intimidation, land confiscation, and the
cutting of all social services to rid the Galilee of its Arab
population."
David Ben Gurion
There is no such thing as "a necessary crime" against humanity.
January 11, 2009 2:15 AM | Reply | Permalink
do not think i am defending Palestinian crimes, friend, nor that i am Israel's enemy. the first-born son of the first three American born generations of my family have served in the American military in foreign wars; my grandfather in a trench during the Great War, my father almost met his death bleeding out in a French field about 20k in from Normandy; i served one tour as a medic in SE Asia. war may infrequently be unavoidable, but it is never justifiable in terms of humanity. far too many innocents die, and far too few of the guilty hang. the price is always too high.
if the Palestinians would have listened to Gandhi, instead old and evil hypocritical men, this would have ended a long time ago at a much lower cost in the blood of their warrior sons and innocents.
Arafat and Sharon are flip-sides of the same evil coin of our realm, in which no justice can be found. for the future, a different path must be blazed.
January 11, 2009 6:37 AM | Reply | Permalink
Pseudo,
I was in Normandy too, my regards to your father if he's still alive; we're dying at the rate of 1100 a day.
January 11, 2009 9:55 AM | Reply | Permalink
Ah, more of this "right to exist" silliness.
Once a final peace settlement is achieved, and once borders are established and fixed, all we can reasonably ask is that the Palestinians accept the fact that Israel exists; that they recognize Israel's borders under international law and the terms of the settlement; and that they pledge henceforth in conformity with that settlement and law not to attack Israel or attempt to destroy Israel. Whether Israel's existence is an expression of some deep mystical "right", or merely an expression of an established geopolitical fact and a fixed determination of the international community, is a further philosophical rigmarole that has no constructive place in working toward a settlement.
Israelis seem quite obsessed with this notion of going beyond the requirement that Palestinians merely accept and acquiesce in their dispossession, and surrender. Israelis also want to force the Palestinians into a humiliating confession of Israeli faith to the effect that Israelis had a right to dispossess the wretches whose descendants live in Gaza and the West Bank. That's too much to ask for. It's a demand that history be denied and rewritten as a pre-condition for peace. What self-respecting human being is going to accept that foreign invaders had a right to the land that they stole from his parents and grandparents, and from which the invaders formed their state?
I don't believe in Israel's right to exist; nor do I believe in the right of the United States to exist, nor of the right to exist of most of the other states in the world. These states were mostly formed by aggression and thievery, and there was nothing "rightful" about it. I do believe in peace and order, and finding ways of putting the crimes of the past in the past, so future generations can move forward. I think the defenders of the two-state solution have been quite reasonable in not asking that the new latter-day Jewish inhabitants of Israel return all of the land they have ethnically cleansed and expropriated. The defenders of this solution just want a return of the land that was more recently expropriated, and that the international community asked to have returned back in 1967.
January 10, 2009 6:06 PM | Reply | Permalink
Anyway, the "invaders" are bigger, stronger, smarter, and more productive than Palestinians, with a history that emphasizes they will never again acquiesce to genocide. So if the best the Palestinians can do is shoot homemade rockets from behind the skirts of women and the toys of children, too bad. They can choose to work with Israel or be poisonous and treated like children. Their call.
January 10, 2009 7:31 PM | Reply | Permalink
Well, that's cool. All you bigger, stronger, smarter, more productive folks should get along just swell without any alliance or other support from the US. Goodbye and good luck.
January 10, 2009 7:55 PM | Reply | Permalink
Indeed. Take away US aid and Israel makes maximum use of it's limited resources, like nuking Iran, stopping all aid to Gaza, more settlements on the West Bank, and just about everything in a worst case scenario for the ME. Good plan, I'm all for it.
January 10, 2009 8:03 PM | Reply | Permalink
Whether with US aid or without it, Israel is on the path to national suicide anyway. The problem is that once you scrape below the standard arguments and polemics, you find that a substantial number of Israelis are simply seething with genocidal rage and hatred over what was done to their ancestors, and they long to exterminate all their enemies, real and imagined, along with their enemies' children. Eventually these murderous impulses will get the better of them, and they will perpetrate some horror that even their few remaining friends will not be able to overlook - maybe it will even happen in Gaza. At that point, they will have no friends left at all, and the world will wash its hands of them. The reality of Israeli's smallness and dependency on others will then finally dawn on its stubborn and iron-willed inhabitants, and their brave conceits and poses about Israel as a self-sufficient island of ruthless and indestructible warrior-Jews will evaporate.
This self-destructive urge is tragic, since Israel could at any time have brought an effective end to their troubles by withdrawing entirely from the territory occupied in 1967, declaring a border on the Green Line, and requesting an international force to police the Palestinian territories as the latter get on with the business of forming a state. The international response to this sort of move would be near universal approval, and the momentum of peace and resolution would put an end to the movement of the last Palestinian holdouts. But the paranoia, hatred and and lust for conquest among Israelis appear to be boundless.
Jews of the future may have to invent a new High Holy Day to commemorate this self-destruction of the modern Jewish kingdom by fanatical zealots.
January 10, 2009 9:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
Shooter says:
Is there any downside to this plan for Israel?
January 11, 2009 10:00 AM | Reply | Permalink
Surrendering to the fact that Israel is there to stay is different from surrendering to the claim that Israel had a "right" to take the land in the first place. The former is a difficult but necessary practical step required for peace. The latter is a gratuitous imposition of Israeli intellectual imperialism.
January 10, 2009 8:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
I doubt anyone really cares about the distinction, it's the surrender by the Palestinians that's required here.
January 10, 2009 8:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
Why do I never hear Dan K. on NPR? I've been listening to a lot of what passes for public-interest radio to get a sense of what people are feeling about the Gaza attack, but none of the invited experts speak with Dan K's lucidity and judgment. It is clear that Israel will not compromise unless we threaten the withdrawal of financial and moral support. Anything else is just the quacking of ducks.
January 11, 2009 7:38 PM | Reply | Permalink
Thanks to shooter242 for speaking truth in such an eloquent and pithy way to nonsense.
January 10, 2009 6:11 PM | Reply | Permalink
the tide of public opinion is turning against Israel
freedom and dignity for all
pics from our national demonstration today in Bern, Switzerland
7000 people
http://www.huesitos.ch/gaza/index.html
January 10, 2009 5:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
Thank you. I join you in calling for:
January 10, 2009 5:12 PM | Reply | Permalink
Your major problem: you are living on land the Israelis' want.
January 10, 2009 5:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
Thank you Bahour, for the look from behind the wall. The Jewish lobby in the U.S. has been far too strong and one-sided, but this kind of rabid aggression by Israelis is just the thing to turn the christian-based populate in the U.S. against the signifcant support to Israel.
When a new president takes over, many will feel a renewed hope to speak their mind against the U.S.'s irrational support of Israeli aggression and inhumanity, as well as the proliferation of weapons to bully and terrorist nations. How many more innocent civilians must die before Harry Reid has the balls to stand up to the AIPAC lobby? Hopefully not too many.
http://www.thepetitionsite.com/takeaction/938380652
January 10, 2009 5:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
Dream on, jerk. 95% of the American voters don't give a damn as long as U.S. troops are not involved, and as to the the other 5%, many more of them agree with me and my friends than you. They just don't waste their time blogging at sites like this one. If the majority of that 5% agreed with you, a lot more than 5 Members of Congress out of 535 would be condemning Israel.
January 10, 2009 6:15 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'm not certain if you're simply uninformed about American support for Israel (a distinct possibility given some of your other claims and statements), or if you believe that we can be easily misled. At any rate, your claims aren't borne out by the recent polling data. Check out these recent articles regarding polling of attitudes about Israel:
Rassmussen Poll on American public opinion regarding the Israeli attack on Gaza (December 2008)
WorldPublicOpinion.org Poll regarding taking sides in the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict (July 2008)
You might also want to read this article, which is perhaps the clincher as far as exposing the incredible blindness of your arguments is concerned: RESEARCH: Before Israel’s Invasion, Hamas Popularity Was Waning... by the Pew Research Center.
January 10, 2009 6:50 PM | Reply | Permalink
sageemetchai says;
Am I the only one who sees the irony in this post? heh heh heh.
January 11, 2009 10:04 AM | Reply | Permalink
Thanks very much Mr. Bahour, and welcome to TPM Cafe. I'm hoping your article will be widely read. We in the U.S. need to hear Palestinian voices along with the Israeli ones in order to re-assess our foreign policy approach to the conflict. For far too long we have heard the voices of only one side.
January 10, 2009 5:56 PM | Reply | Permalink
Puh-leeze. If you want to hear opposition voices, I suggest you start with those of Native Americans.
I know. When viewed in *that* light, it hits a little too close to home.
January 10, 2009 9:06 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'm always astounded when "pro"-Israel commenters use the native American example to justify what the Israelis are doing to the Palestinians. It says a lot. Do you really want to invoke genocide, clearthinker, and justify Israeli actions on that basis?
January 12, 2009 4:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
"pooter" ! "skewter"! wow, name calling always impresses me and makes us all want to listen to what you have to say.
there is only one way to peace. the Palestinians must give up their obsession with eliminating Israel. there is no other way.
let me ask you people something: how many times have you heard a pro-Israel person shout "Death to Hamas"? how many Jewish suicide bombers blow up innocent people around the world? how many Jews have hijacked airplanes and run them into buildings? how many Jews threw rocks at foreign embassies over cartoons, for godsake!
the Pals elected a terrorist organization to lead them, were given the Gaza Strip when Israel left it to them, and proceeded to pour all their time, money, and effort into bombing instead of building their own civilization. they are morally bankrupt.
there's no reason we should help these people until they agree to join the modern world.
January 10, 2009 6:08 PM | Reply | Permalink
So true, gretz.
January 10, 2009 6:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
This from someone whose previous response in this thread was: "Dream on, jerk". It isn't fair to play using different rulebooks.
January 10, 2009 11:45 PM | Reply | Permalink
He changed argument in midstream when attempting to justify Israel's actions; first claiming they had a right to retaliate against suicide bombings, and then making a preemptive defense argument.
Am I supposed to be kind in response to asinine rhetorical games, justifying crimes against humanity?
Please spare me the inanities...
January 10, 2009 11:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
First of all, be assured that many many Americans are appalled at the barbaric slaughter of Palestinians going on in Gaza now, and do NOT agree with our president and Congress on this. Secondly, thanks for this informative list of suggestions which deserve a wide hearing. Thirdly, why does this have to be so pitifully predictably one-sided? Do you really expect that any half-way sentient non-partisan observer believes that all the unexplored options lie on the Israeli side? Fourth, in particular, why do half of Palestinians have to vote for terrorists, why do they have to have huge families that they cannot support (wouldn't two or three children be enough, like most other families in most of the world?), and finally, why not leave the hell that Gaza has become? I realize that nobody wants to feel forced out of his or her homeland, and moving around internationally is hardly an easy or pleasant process, but why not at least try? Tens of millions of people flee disasters at home, and apply for asylum elsewhere. Why do we never read of Palestinians asking other countries to take them in?
I for one, am sick of the idiotic position of my government in the US, that it is all up to the Palestinians to stop killing Israelis and accept the Israeli state, but the antidote to this moronic pro-Israeli one-sidedness is surely not anti-Israeli one-sidedness, even if not so moronic.
January 10, 2009 6:14 PM | Reply | Permalink
Others may have noticed that the link to the ePalestine blog that Mr. Bahour posted does not work. Try this link instead: ePalestine.blogspot
January 10, 2009 6:19 PM | Reply | Permalink
Good article, but I just don't see how any of Sam's suggestions would have stopped rockets from Hamas. This turned from "what could Israel have done instead" into "what do Palestinians wish Israel would do".
Personally, I think we should pressure other governments to accept refugees from Palestine and accept that Palestine/Israel will be a war zone indefinitely.
January 10, 2009 7:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
In the history of humanity, this is the end game for monotheism. The absolute is basis, not apex, so the spiritual absolute is the raw essence of awareness from which we rise, not(obviously) a moral ideal from which we fell.
When you have two tribes of people thinking their group represents the epitome of spiritual perfection, there is no room for compromise.
There was a time when the ideal provided a useful model for society, but we can no longer afford a theory of humanity which doesn't understand compromise.
The parent is the model one follows, then it is the foundation from which one rises. This is the end of the beginning for humanity, not the beginning of the end.
January 10, 2009 7:28 PM | Reply | Permalink
There have always been people who have believed that uncivilized behavior by their adversaries frees them from the obligation to behave in a civilized fashion themselves. During the past 7 years in the US we've seen how this attitude can turn a once-respected nation into a pariah and an elected administration into a bunch of criminals.
January 10, 2009 8:05 PM | Reply | Permalink
Not to excuse some of the terrible things that some in the Israeli military have apparently done, but one thing I don't see coming from this author's commentary is an understanding is an understanding of the Jewish or Israeli perspective. The Hamas ideology is largely founded upon an intense hatred for Israel and Jews. It is acceptable, even expected throughout the Arab world to call Jews pigs and monkeys. (See NYT article of today) Hamas suicide bombers thought they would go to heaven by blowing up Jews in pizza parlors. Throughout Gaza, murals were painted in memory of suicide bombers. Then the people of Gaza elected Hamas to represent them. Given Hamas' history, can you really expect Israel to respect the people of Gaza's democratic choice, absent a courageous willingness on Hamas' part to live with Israel's existence? And those walls, by the way, were largely built to keep out suicide bombers, not to put Gaza out of sight and out of mind, as this commentary implies. Not to excuse the horrible suffering that the people of Gaza have had to endure, but let's get some perspective here.
January 10, 2009 8:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
Agreed. There is a tremendous band-wagon effect whenever this topic comes up -- on both the left and the right. Very few people (and especially Americans) understand the history of that region let alone what happened in 1948-9.
The situation is incredibly complex and involves other Arab nations as well (though you won't find that part of the argument in the typical discussion).
Americans love to feel better about themselves when dealing with "nation within an nation" issues (e.g South Africa and Israel) conveniently forgetting that the US, also, has that situation with Native Americans.
Sam Bahour's post is interesting - but hardly circumspect. And, because of that, really provides for no solutions at all.
The biggest detriment to peace in the Middle East, of course, is religion. Again showing that dogmatic religion only helps to increase the tribal mentality that gives us conflicts like this (and Ireland, Iraq, etc.) to begin with.
January 10, 2009 9:14 PM | Reply | Permalink
Thank you Sam for continuing to enlighten us with what is really happening in Gaza. The latest Israeli aggression is a slaughter of the innocents. I view the state of Israel as not only a war state, but one that is out to exterminate the remaining Palestinian population.
I am not Palestinian. I am simply an American who has lived among the Palestinian people for a while. As an American, I know that Americans once bravely fought against the cruel occupation of the British. Those who chose to resist British rule and occupation are known as freedom fighters and the founders of our nation. Palestinians who fight for their freedom and who try to resist Israeli occupation are branded as terrorists but the real terrorists are the Israelis.
I will not go into detail how Israel is an illegal state built on stolen Palestinain land. I will not take the trouble to explain that Israel continues to steal Palestinian land and build illegal settlements. It is odd that this war state of Israel is free to do whatever it wants under false pretexts that even the Israelis themselves have come to believe.
Denying a people of their basic needs for more than 18 months cannot even be compared to American frustrations over British taxes once leveled on Americans and we resisted by launching our Boston Tea Party. The latest Israeli air and ground attacks with tons of bombs, missiles and bullets is not justice nor can it be considered a campaign against the brave resistance of the Palestinian people. What Israel is doing is slaughtering the innocent of Gaza. What Israel wants is not peace, but to continue to wage a genocide against anyone who dares to be born Palestinian and live.
The blood of the innocents (now more than 800 dead and over 3000 wounded) indelibly stains the hands of all Israelis and there is no way that this blood can be washed off Israeli hands. I am American. I am not Arab and I say ENOUGH! Let Palestine be free and let there be peace and justice for the Palestinian people.
January 10, 2009 8:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
Using your analogy, one could see the logic of the colonists of firing on the British soldiers if their goal was to separate from the British empire. But where is the logic of firing the missiles by Hamas, when the only outcome could be a few civilian deaths and no impact whatsoever on Isreal military, other than to provoke Isreal and provide the justification in some minds for the type of retaliation that we are seeing now. Hamas wanted these more than 800 dead and over 3000 wounded for PR purpores, and their blood is on Hamas' hands as well as Isreal's. If Hamas wants to bring freedom and justice to their people, they need to lay down their weapons and begin a non-violent movement.
January 10, 2009 9:26 PM | Reply | Permalink
Acamus,
This is the reverse of what you claim. Israel provoked the Palestinians into resistance by the 18 month blockade of Gaza. How can 1 and a half million people NOT have food, NOT have medicine, Not have jobs, be imprisoned in the most crowded place on earth and NOT resist? Israel knew the Palestinians would resist this inhumane blockade of their most basic needs. This is exactly what Israel wanted as an excuse to have hundreds of F-16s bomb the civilian Palestinian population. You speak of non-violence while this massacre of Palestinians is ongoing! You speak of a few very courageous men laying down a few crude homemade rockets while the death toll rises! The oppressor oppresses and calls the oppressed the oppressor.
But one day, everyone will know the truth. Israel is the new Hitler out to exterminate the Palestinian people. This is not what any Palestinian wants, this is exactly what Israel wants! And did you forget that not long ago, Israel supported Hamas?
This is the Palestinian Holocaust. Those who commit these continuing war crimes against the Palestinians are the Israelis. You can never justify a massacre!!
January 10, 2009 9:56 PM | Reply | Permalink
True, Isreal provoked the resistance. The question is how should one resist. One could argue that Ghandi would have been completetly justified to preach violent resistance to the British. But he didn't.
The only way that the blockade is going to end is if the international community puts the pressure on Isreal to do so. Right or wrong, that is the reality. The moment the rockets were fired, the focus of the media and the international community went to that and not the conditions of all those who are suffering under the blockade. In fact it justified the blockade in too many minds. There are just too many out there, in governments and elsewhere (including those in Middle East), that want to help those in Gaza but want to see Hamas go away more passionately.
It is sad what it takes to get the truth out to the world, to get the world to respond in a way that is humane, to have the "Rock for Gaza" concerts, etc. But the response will not happen as long as Hamas and others profess that violence is the path of best resistance.
January 10, 2009 10:15 PM | Reply | Permalink
January 10, 2009 10:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
Maybe it's time to level the battlefield, letting the Palestinians leave behind their home made rockets fueled with sugar solutions, and armed with silver nitrate warheads.
Maybe it's time for America to supply Palestinians with high precision munitions tipped with steel-encased HE warheads allowing it to penetrate through 6 feet of reinforced concrete, and white phosphorous airburst mortar rounds.
Maybe it's time to look the other way when these munitions are used to take out a whole residential city block, ju8st because some IDF officer's home was in it, because, hey, those Israelis shouldn't have been living next to him, and his dead next of kin are nothing more than justifiable collateral damages. The same holds for white phosphorous raining down upon Israeli citizens, as long as there was at least one targeted uniformed IDF member in its intended circle of death.
Maybe it's time to push Israel back behind the green line, subsequently start taking more and more of their territory one bloody inch at a time, until the whole nation is squeezed into high population density enclaves, then starving them of humanitarian supplies, and when they react like caged animals say, "tsk tsk tsk, I told you they are not really human beings".
January 11, 2009 12:44 AM | Reply | Permalink
Dream on, this option is not open to Palestinians right now.
January 11, 2009 10:34 AM | Reply | Permalink
Acamus,
A freedom fighter is just that...a freedom fighter! A freedom fighter fights for the freedom of his/her people. Israel constantly provokes the Palestinians in order to retaliate in mass slaughter. You can never justify the extermination of a people. What would Ghandi do? The British were not bombing the Indians!!! What would you do if someone stole your land, bulldozed your home, uprooted your trees and cut off food, medicine and water from you? How would you resist the Nazi occupation of your country while you had no means of surviving or feeding your children? How would you live in a huge concentration camp while the occupier takes the best of what was once your country? How would you feel if your baby died in your arms? How would you feel if your home was bombed and your son shot on his way to school?
This is barbarism at its greatest. The Palestinians have staged peaceful demonstrations before and they were killed in the process.
The blood of the innocent remains on the hands of the Israelis.
January 10, 2009 11:04 PM | Reply | Permalink
I honestly don't know how I would react if placed in a similar situation. But there is one thing I know I wouldn't do (or would hope I wouldn't do) and that is to consciously use violence that served no purpose other than to provoke the oppressors. Regardless of the extent of Isreal's response and what they have done in the past, the act of sending those missles was a step away from peace and justice for the Palestinians. A freedom fighter attempts to carry out actions that moves his or her people closer to freedom, not further away from it. The French resistance didn't just take a pop shot at one Nazi in some village and then watch as the remaining Nazis drag out all the civilians and shoot them in retaliation.
We should be seeking peace. I would ask you to think about the civilians who have died as a result of those rockets, the loved one who had them die in their arms.
The point is that without those rockets, Isreal wouldn't be bombing Gaza right now. And maybe there would have been a chance to draw attention to the plight of the Palestinians under the oppression of the blockade. But that has been lost. And I would argue that is exactly what Hamas wanted when they sent the rockets. They don't want peace. There are those in Isreal that don't want peace. But there are those in Isreal and Palenstine who do. Unfortunately those who seek the violent path have effectively put them on the sidelines.
January 10, 2009 11:27 PM | Reply | Permalink
Israel and its supporters have very cleverly rewritten history in a way that justifies their own cause. The history of their conflict with the Palestinians, they argue, begins with Palestinian "aggression" against Israel.
This is patently wrong. The conflict began with the forcible displacement of the people of Palestine from the land they had lived in for centuries. Before 1949, Jews made up a minority of the population of Palestine, and for most of the past two millennia the minority was a tiny one. It was only after the creation of the state of Israel in 1948, and the consequent forcible eviction of Palestinians, that Jews became a majority within the borders of what is now Israel. This majority has been bolstered since then by one of the most restrictive and discriminatory sets of immigration policies in the world; one which essentially allows only Jews to migrate to Israel (indeed it gives all Jews the right to do so) while expressly forbidding Palestinians from returning to their homes.
Gaza isn't some foreign Palestinian state venting its aggression on Israel. It is essentially a vast refugee camp, its population first conquered, then displaced, then occupied, then blockaded, its leaders imprisoned and assassinated.
Viewed against this historic background, the firing of rockets into Israel isn't a provocative act motivated simply by hatred. It is a response to decades of brutal oppression and occupation.
I'm not saying that the actions of Hamas are either wise or justified. Like all attacks on civilians, the rocket attacks on Israel are reprehensible. But they didn't take place in a historic vacuum.
Sam is right. Israel had many options in moving to resolve the conflicts in which it is involved. Yet once again it has chosen the option of maximum and hugely disproportionate violence (How on earth can the killing of over 800 Palestinians, many of them civilians, be considered a reasonable reaction to the killing over seven Israelis over a five year period? And to those who say the body count isn't the point: would you say the same if Israel killed a dozen Palestinians in response to a Palestinian attack that killed hundreds?)
The sad truth is that while Hamas's attacks on Israeli towns have been reprehensible, Israel's actions have made Hamas appear to be a model of restraint by comparison. And Israel's actions certainly won't bring the region closer to peace, or persuade Palestinians that extremism offers no solution. On the contrary, they will increase support for extremists, decrease the chances of meaningful peace negotiations, and ultimately further undermine Israel's security.
January 10, 2009 11:10 PM | Reply | Permalink
Donald, you wrote:
So begins much of the myth from the other side. Much of this is simply not true. To begin: until the Ottoman Empire collapses in WWI, the region wasn't even a "state"... just part of a large area populated regionally by peoples of various tribal descents and ethnic backgrounds. This went on for roughly 500 years. Borders didn't even come into being until the WWI allied powers carved up the area post-war.
By 1945, the population division was more like 2/3 Palestinian to 1/3 Jew. This is hardly the tiny minority you refer to. Moreover, the British Mandate (and the subsequent UN Partition Plan) divvied up the country along the lines of the general centers of population already living there (something similar to dividing up Iraq along Sunni/Shite/Kurd populations).
One of the reasons for Jewish population growth in the 20's and 30's was that the Europeans didn't want them. Indeed, people here would do well recognize that in the 1930's it was the Jews who performed terrorist acts because the British restricted immigration -- because the Arabs didn't want the influx of Jews. I guess that implies there were a lot of Jews around. So this notion that only a "tiny" portion of the country was Jewish is nonsense. It was a minority portion, but not "tiny". (And by the way, Jews lived in the area for centuries as well, albeit not in as great numbers.)
Next, the Palestinians were not expelled but were rather war refugees. In fact, the Arab nations wanted the Palestinians in their countries about as much as the Europeans wanted the Jews. The two state solution essentially went out the window once the 1948 War started in earnest. It should be noted that *both* the US *and* the USSR called the Arab invasion of May 1948 illegal.
So, there was no "forcible" displacement as you claim. Indeed, there was originally the possibility of a 2-state solution built around local population centers (sound like what people want now?). How successful would this solution be? Who knows?... but it was never given a chance to work. The record indicates that the Israelis were trying to defend borders set up by the international community while the Palestinians -- encouraged by the Arab League -- were the ones trying to do the expelling. And for what it's worth, the 1967 War united Palestinian families in Jerusalem.
Bottom line: No one wanted the Jews nor the Palestinians populations in their country, so they squeezed them together in a small area based on previous population settlements. The result is a total mess now with the expected entrenchment you might imagine that occurs over 60 years of hostilities.
No one is blameless in this conflict. Both sides are proxies for larger interests, both sides want a place to live without persecution. That's the reason why the situation is such a mess. How will it be solved? The way human history is always solved: if one side can subdue the other. (See also: Native American reservations in the US) This is the reason for the continued fighting.
January 10, 2009 11:57 PM | Reply | Permalink
ShalomA. You speak of those who tell the truth as losers but you are the greatest loser because you cannot see the reality of what is happening. Wake up! The Palestinians were never given any options but to be slaughtered by the Israelis.
If you have children, then thank God that they are safe and do not have to suffer the horrors of war or die in the middle of the night. Then think about the innocent Palestinian children who huddle in fear from Israeli bombs and mortar fire. Search your conscience (if you have one) and then speak of losers.
Isrealis will keep crying "wolf" until the world realizes that they have been lying all along and that the real treachery lies in the hearts of all Israelis et al who condone this insane massacre.
January 10, 2009 11:12 PM | Reply | Permalink
You are wrong. In 2000, they were given an option
of getting 98& of West Bank and Gaza plus billions in aid to build a a state. You might consider that option not fair, however that option was not an "option to be slaughtered by the Israelis". They've decided to "be slaughtered by the Israelis" so they can get another 2%.
BTW, talking about slaughter:
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/11/world/middleeast/11hamas.html?_r=1&hp
January 11, 2009 1:03 AM | Reply | Permalink
Shalom,
What you say is all merely Israeli propaganda! There is no Hamas tactic of asking civlians to stand on the roofs of buildings so Israeli pilots will not bomb! Even this lie is so big, no one can believe it!
Israelis are indiscriminately bombing civilian targets in order to kill more Palestinians! There is no Israeli tactic but to kill as many of the indigenous inhabitants as they can. There is talk of Israeli bombs containing not just death but for those who might survive the bombing, there are chemicals that cling to the flesh of the victims, leaving only bones remaining.
Please stop your lies, your myths, and speak the truth! What is at risk here are the lives of the innocent. You would not want this fate to befall you or your children. Have mercy so God may have mercy on you!
January 11, 2009 1:19 AM | Reply | Permalink
Acamus,
You speak of an Israeli loved one who died in someone's arms. I speak of more than 800 people, many of them children and infants who died in a loved one's arms. Don't you think the death toll on the Israeli side versus the death toll on the Palestinian side is way out of proportion? A massacre, a genocide of an entire population is hideous and a crime against humanity. Israel is an illegal war state, built on the blood and bodies of the Palestinian people.
This "Molten Lead" campaign being waged by Israel is not about a single rocket fired into an illegal Israeli settlement. This is about a mass extermination of the Palestinian people. The Israelis do not want peace, they want to rid Palestine of Palestinians. The Israeli government is delighted to wage this campaign of death. But they cannot wash the blood of the innocents from their hands. The new Hitlers are the Israelis. You can never justify injustice.
January 11, 2009 1:32 AM | Reply | Permalink
You have n o clue what "A massacre, a genocide of an entire population", " the appalling death and destruction" or " pulverizing " really mean.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/eve-ensler-and-stephen-lewis/the-never-ending-war_b_150668.html
January 11, 2009 2:06 AM | Reply | Permalink
BTW, this is happening today and somehow nobody watches "at the appalling death and destruction" in Congo.
January 11, 2009 2:11 AM | Reply | Permalink
Dear Edna, If Israel wants "to kill as many of the indigenous inhabitants as they can" trust me, they can do better than kill 800 people in two weeks. You are not thinking rationally.
January 11, 2009 1:35 AM | Reply | Permalink
What law is it that says 100 eyes for an eye is justice served?
January 11, 2009 4:47 AM | Reply | Permalink
Are you saying that in response to a rocket attack on an Israeli school from Gaza, Israel should send equal amount rockets on Gaza schools?
January 11, 2009 10:31 AM | Reply | Permalink
Sholom,
I may be wrong, but I think any Israeli rockets would be much more accurate than anything Hamas has, so your analogy is a non starter.
I'm under the impression that Hamas Rockets, though deadly, are hit and miss affairs, much like
German V1 rockets could target England but not a particular school.
January 11, 2009 12:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
ShalomA,
You try to distract us with your lies from the real issue. The issue is the occupation of Palestinian land by the Israeli war state and the ensuing genocide of the Palestinian people. A genocide does not have to be carried out all at one time. Israel has the power, thanks to the US, to wipe out as many Palestinians as they please. Yes, this is true. But they are playing a game here, trying to fool the world into thinking they are the victims when indeed, they are brutal, ruthless, and try to kill off the Palestinians in a slower way that won't shock the world as much.
Before this latest invasion, how many Palestinian school children have been shot at by Israeli snipers? How many Palestinian schools have been bombed and attacked by the Israeli war machine? How many Palestinian children have been killed on their way to school? How many Palestinian children have died in their homes by Israeli bulldozers? How many Palestinian children who have survived must go through life without an eye, a limb, a parent, a way of existing? Every Palestinian child under Israeli occupation is not only braver than most men ever dream to be, but martyrs.
Paul Revere was our American hero because he warned the Americans that the British are coming. But in Palestine, every Palestinian is a war hero, and the Isrealis never stop invading, never stop coming. George Washington is considered the Father of our country. He fought against the British and we Americans revere him for his bravery. We call the brave Palestinians terrorists while terror hits them from every direction.
It is time to stop the lies. It is time the world wakes up to what the Israelis are really doing. The world is beginning to see the total unfairness of Molten Lead campaign and if you just switch on your television ShalomA, you just might notice that all over the world, people are demonstrating for the PALESTINIANS, not the Israelis!
Hitler and the Nazi regime were nothing compared to our Neo Hitlers and Neo Nazis! The terrorist Irgun and Stern gangs have turned into larger Israeli killing machines. Remember Deir Yessin and remember Gaza!
The blood of the innocent is on your hands and on the hands of every Israeli. Help put an end to this bloodbath instead of doing your best to deceive us.
January 11, 2009 11:47 AM | Reply | Permalink
"Before this latest invasion, how many Palestinian school children have been shot at by Israeli snipers?"
None. Yes, You are Palestinian and hate Israel. I understand your pain right now. However you are not helping yoor people with this garbage.
January 11, 2009 11:57 AM | Reply | Permalink
Gaza-2001
"It is still. The camp waits, as if holding its breath. And then, out of the dry furnace air, a disembodied voice crackles over a loudspeaker.
"Come on, dogs," the voice booms in Arabic. "Where are all the dogs of Khan Younis? Come! Come!"
I stand up. I walk outside the hut. The invective continues to spew: "Son of a bitch!" "Son of a whore!" "Your mother's cunt!"
The boys dart in small packs up the sloping dunes to the electric fence that separates the camp from the Jewish settlement. They lob rocks toward two armored jeeps parked on top of the dune and mounted with loudspeakers. Three ambulances line the road below the dunes in anticipation of what is to come.
A percussion grenade explodes. The boys, most no more than ten or eleven years old, scatter, running clumsily across the heavy sand. They descend out of sight behind a sandbank in front of me. There are no sounds of gunfire. The soldiers shoot with silencers. The bullets from the M-16 rifles tumble end over end through the children's slight bodies. Later, in the hospital, I will see the destruction: the stomachs ripped out, the gaping holes in limbs and torsos.
... Children have been shot in other conflicts I have covered—death squads gunned them down in El Salvador and Guatemala, mothers with infants were lined up and massacred in Algeria, and Serb snipers put children in their sights and watched them crumple onto the pavement in Sarajevo—but I have never before watched soldiers entice children like mice into a trap and murder them for sport."
January 11, 2009 12:10 PM | Reply | Permalink
Palestinians' rage prevent them from seeing options open to them. They can have a state next to Israel not instead of a Jewish state of Israel.
January 11, 2009 12:28 PM | Reply | Permalink
Edna, you seem to think that the people of Israel are bloodthirsty people bent on genocide for no reason other than their hatred of Palestinians and their lust for power. Take off your blinders. The world is not so black and white. Both the Israelis and the Palestinians have legitimate aspirations. Agents of both parties have done some terrible things. As long you demonize the other side, peace will not be possible.
January 11, 2009 1:02 PM | Reply | Permalink
poofermartin,
Yes, I do think that the Israeli entity is basically evil. There are some concerned Israelis who are trying to stop the bloodshed, but they make up a very small minority of the Israeli population. I am not wearing blinders. The facts speak for themselves. It is you who cannot see the truth for what it is. My favorite Israeli writer who constantly speaks of the evil of the Israeli government is Uri Avnery. Why don't you read some of his articles. Your blinders might fall off from shock!
January 11, 2009 1:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
Edna: I am what people would generally describe as pro-Palestinian. While I agree with some of what you've written, I disagree with the idea that most Israelis are bloodthirsty and evil. Instead, I think most Israelis probably have PTSD as a result of the Holocaust, and further that there is a distinction between the Israeli government's actions and those of individual Israelis.
Still, I would have to say that just as in the Holocaust, saying "we didn't know," isn't a believable excuse at this point for their support of what's happening in Gaza. The problem is how to encourage individual Israelis to take action to stop the things that their government is doing in their names (and to encourage similar action from American Jews). Calling them evil and bloodthirsty is only likely to get their backs up, as they'll percieve it as hatred of them as Jews, only increasing the tendency to fight back, rather than to take an honest look at what they're doing.
January 12, 2009 4:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
ShalomA,
I am not Palestinian. I am not Arab. I am a concerned American. My rage stems from the ongoing slaughter of the Palestinian people. The Palestinians under occupation are not speaking of taking back their own land that was stolen from them. They speak of living in peace on what is left of their land. Living in peace means no blockades, no occupation, no death squads, no assassinations,no bombing by air, land, and sea, and the chance to raise their children. It also means no Israeli snipers shooting at Palestinian children on the way to school, keeping border crossings open, and allowing the indigenous inhabitants the inalienable rights that every human is entitled to.
Israel is indeed the monster that my country America created!
January 11, 2009 1:10 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yes Edna, I suppose you think that suicide bombings in Israeli pizzerias are justified, or, let me guess, that Israel deliberately provoked Hamas into taking these actions so that Israel would have an excuse for slaughtering Palestinians. You probably also think that Israel has deliberately poisoned the Palestinian water supply, and that Israel uses the blood of Palestinian children to bake bread.
I can see the abuses perpetrated by both sides quite clearly. I also think that if it results in peace, Israel should abandon all its post 1967 settlements. I just think that Israel should be allowed to exist, and to exist in peace, a view you don't seem to share.
January 11, 2009 1:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
ShalomA,
I am not suggesting that Israel be obliberated. In fact, Israel is obliberating the Palestinians.
And yes, Israel deliberately provoked the Palestinians for more than 18 months by shutting off their food and water supplies, by blockading basic human needs to them, by closing border crossings, by denying them medical aid and medical supplies. Metaphorically yes, the Israelis do use the blood of Palestinian children to back Israeli bread.
No one is speaking about Israel's right to exist. Yes, the war state of Israel is illegal, and was built on stolen Palestinian land. Many of the Palesinians who live in Gaza have been displaced countless times because their homes have been taken away from them. What I speak of is the Palestinian right to exist. You cannot torture, imprison, murder, and descrate the rights of a group of people indefinitely. You cannot slaughter Palestinian children for sport and you cannot imprison Palestinian children for the fun of it and then speak of a right to exist.
And no, I do not believe in suicide bombing. I do not believe in killing civilians no matter who they are. But you see, this is not about suicide bombing, this is not about two Israelis dying, this is about thousands of Palestinians injured right now and this is about the ongoing massacre in Gaza.
The Israeli government should be tried for their crimes against all humanity. Whole Palestinian families have been exterminated in Molten Lead. It is time this massacre stops...or don't you really understand what a massacre is? Apparently you are a Zionist who lives on the safe side of extermination campaigns.
January 11, 2009 2:47 PM | Reply | Permalink
I do understand " what a massacre is" you don't understand and you don't care.
This is a massacre tat you and the rest of Jew haters don't care about:
On the scale of human suffering, Palestinian self inflicted suffering is a rounding error. The only reason that anybody pays so much to their self inflicted instead of real suffering of enormous proportions in other part of the wold is Jew hatred and noting else.
January 11, 2009 3:43 PM | Reply | Permalink
SholomA. Again, you cry wolf. Again, you twist everything around to make the innocent guilty and the very guilty as victims. Israelis are the victims of their own bloodthirsty tactics. This is not about Jew hating! Jews are not a race of people to hate, they are people who follow the religion of Judaism. I hate injustice. I hate lies, and I hate the slaughter of the Palestinian innocents. Again, you trail off the subject to confuse and distort the reality of the present horrific situation.
That you are a Jew is obvious from your name. That you are a Zionist is obvious from the frantic senseless words you use. And I still do not hate you, but I do pity you. I hate the atrocities the Israelis are committing, I hate the torture of the Palestinian people, I hate to see Palestinian children die and suffer needlessly. I hate to think of a child having a limb amputated from this Molten Lead campaign without any anesthetic being administered. I hate to think of any child going through life without a limb, bearing the scars of this latest holocaust against these noble Palestinian people. I hate injustice and I hate lies that distort the truth.
Stop being selfish and blind and think of the suffereing of the innocent. When you condone crimes against humanity, the blood of the innocent will stain your hands forever and you will never be able to wash this blood off! Do not sell your soul because once you do, you can never get it back.
January 11, 2009 3:57 PM | Reply | Permalink
Why don't you hate " ten women who have been raped and tortured arrive daily. Their vaginas are ripped apart" ?
January 11, 2009 6:38 PM | Reply | Permalink
Edna,
Your use of such hyperbolic and irresponsible language, i.e. that Israel "slaughters Palestinian children for sport" and imprisons thousands of children "for the fun of it" makes any rational dialogue impossible. Have some of Israel's actions in its own defense been excessive? Absolutely. Have thousands of people, including minors been imprisoned as part of this campaign? Yes. Does that make the people of Israel a bunch of evil sadists? No. This type of language contributes to the antisemitism that has become the norm throughout the Arab world. The Times just carried an article which described how one of Egypt's government sponsored imams gave a sermon which described Jews as pigs and monkeys. Watch your language.
January 11, 2009 4:43 PM | Reply | Permalink
poofermartin,
But Israel does slaughter Palestinian children for sport! This is not hyperbole, this is fact. Why would a Palestinian child be in prison in the first place? For daring to be Palestinian?
As for antisemitism, as I mentioned, the Jews are not a race of people, but a people who follow the religion of Judaism. The only true semites are the Arabs who are the descendants of Prophet Abraham.
I do not live in the Arab world and again, I am not an Arab! I do know the Hebrew word for those people who are not Jews and it is "Goneem" which means animal and which the Israeli Jews label anyone who is not Jewish. So, the rest of the world are all animals according to many Israelis.
I am not against those Israelis who want peace and who are against Molten Lead. I read Uri Avnery as I mentioned. I still am against the slaughter of the innocents. When whole familes are wiped out because of F-16s, then this is an attempt to exterminate Palestinians. I know Golda Meir (remember her?) used to shudder whenever a Palestinian child was born.
If you are indeed Israeli as I suspect you are, then you better take to the streets and scream for justice and help put an end to his genocide.
For extra fun, just read what people like Uri Avnery say about what is happening right now. The death toll has climbed to almost 900. Have you no conscience?
January 11, 2009 4:59 PM | Reply | Permalink
If you are indeed American as I suspect you are not, then you better take to the streets and scream for justice and help put an end to the US genocide in Afghanistan.
January 11, 2009 6:41 PM | Reply | Permalink
ShalomA,
I need not defend the fact that I am American, but for your information, my father's side goes way back to the American Revolution. On my mother's side, it is more recent as my great grandfather and his family immigrated here from Sweden.
As for protesting the US genocide of Afghanis, I have. I have also protested the American genocide of Iraqis. I am against occupation, atrocities, torture, and the occupation of Iraq and Afghanistan. I am also against the extermination of the Palestinian people. I happen to be one of the few Americans who understands very well what is happening in Palestine and also in the Middle East. This is why you can't pull the wool over my eyes. But one day beware. I will no longer be from the few Americans who do know what is going on, but from the majority of Americans who suddenly realize the hideous crimes the Israelis are perpretrating against the Palestinian people.
You're botching up your PR big time and people all over the world have stopped believing Israeli/Zionist propaganda!
January 11, 2009 10:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'm curious if you can point to any of your comment on any blog where you have expressed that you are "against occupation, atrocities, torture, and the occupation of Iraq and Afghanistan"
January 11, 2009 11:31 PM | Reply | Permalink
SholomA,
Yes, I have a blog. I have also published articles about Iraq and Afghanistan. But I am not here to reveal my identity to you. I am here to speak out against the horror of what is happening right now in the concentration camp called Gaza.
While you sleep safely in your bed, little Palestinian children are dying and the death toll continues to rise.
There are heroes in the seaweed.
There are children who are mourning.
They are reaching out for love,
They will reach this way forever.
January 12, 2009 12:10 AM | Reply | Permalink
"little Palestinian children are dying and the death toll continues to rise."
Do you know why?
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1231424929369&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull
January 12, 2009 1:28 AM | Reply | Permalink
ShalomA,
Yes. We all know why. Israel wants to kill as many Palestinians as possible before the world notices. But guess what, there are demonstrations all over the globe because the world is taking notice!
Look at the pictures of dead babies, of mothers with their children. Have you no heart? How do you sleep at night knowing that Gaza is one huge killing field?
This is not retaliation. This is barbaric murder! Be careful because the real you is showing through and it is not a pretty sight!
January 12, 2009 1:35 AM | Reply | Permalink
If Israel wants to kill as many Palestinians as possible, why there are so few are killed?
January 12, 2009 10:18 AM | Reply | Permalink
David,
I don't consider more than 900 dead as only a few. Don't forget, the Israelis are not done yet with their Molten Lead campaign!
And what about the Palestinian wounded? What about a Palestinian father who had both his legs blown off? What about a mother who was killed in one of the bombing raids along with her 3 babies? What about whole families being wiped out?
You must remember that Palestinians are human too and that they certainly do not deserve this latest genocide that is happening.
What did a Palestinian baby every do to you? Why should Palestinian children have to die? What is their crime?
January 13, 2009 1:56 AM | Reply | Permalink
This was posted on the Alef list by Dorothy Naor and I would like to respond briefly. To let you know who I am.
I am a Jewish anti-Zionist and have spent part of every day last week on vigils for Gaza that Brighton (UK) Palestine Solidarity Campaign has mounted. I spoke at a demonstration in Brighton last week and today at another demonstration, the second largest incidentally there has been in my 30+ years in Brighton. It will shortly be posted on my blog:
www.azvsas.blogspot.com
I also drafted the letter that appeared in yesterday’s Guardian by 78 British Jews.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/jan/10/letters-gaza-uk
I should also add, since you also post articles on Gilad Atzmon’s ‘Palestine Think Tank’ that I consider both him and the site as a whole as anti-semitic. Indeed according to Atzmon I am a Zionist because I consider myself Jewish (see his ‘Not in my name’ article and more recent ones if you don’t believe me).
Having established my credentials, let me get to the heart of the matter.
Israel has clearly invested a lot of time, effort and money in a PR offensive, an offensive which has been bought into by the BBC and other media organisations. And yet, despite this, their PR has failed. That is one clue to the fact that today Israel says it’s nearing the end of their goal when only a few days ago they were proclaiming that they had a long way to go. In other words political pressure can work, as in the UN Ceasefire resolution, in which Britain effectively broke with the US in not abstaining and indeed the US abstension itself was a product of that pressure.
Judging by the reception in Brighton where I would guess 90% of those we canvass and leaflet oppose Israel’s bloody offensive, then the PR offensive hasn’t worked and for one simple reason. Actions always speak louder than words and the bombing of UN schools, the devastation etc. cannot be erased by the honeyed words of Mark Regev.
But this DESPITE the Palestinian and particular Hamas’s blundering and incompetent articulation of their cause. Indeed I tear my hair out at how inept they are. I pay tribute to their steadfastness, their unwillingness to surrender or compromise as the PLO did to no avail, but when it comes to politics they are, to be blunt, useless. For exampe:
1. Instead of saying they would not renew the ceasefire they should have said they would renew it but that Israel should accept that this meant: a) no more incursions b) no more blockades by land, sea or air c) that no rockets would be fired in exchange for a guarantee that there are no assassinations etc.
2. Likewise their response to the UN Ceasefire should not have been simple rejection but an acceptance based on the above points.
3. The real problem is Palestinian representation. Hamas politically is a blundering oaf. On the one hand they welcome the support of Jews, be it by boat or indeed politically and then they have anti-semitic stuff, including Protocols of the Elders of Zion etc. on their web site and Charter. This simply plays into the hands of the Zionists. It is a free gift to our enemies. It serves no purpose. I can well understand a Palestinian who speaks of ‘the Jews’ when Israel acts in the name of the Jews. But a political group should rise above the immediate and see the strategic.
4. The real problem is that there is a choice between a quisling Palestinian Authority, which almost certainly was consulted with and agreed to the Israeli attack on Gaza. Indeed one of its purposes to install a Palestinian Authority in Gaza, and a movement which is frankly sectarian. How can an Islamic movement be a representative of all Palestinians? Up to 10% of Palestinians are Christian, maybe not in Gaza but Hamas is not just a Gaza organisation. I don’t know whether reports that Israel circulates about mutilation being used for Sharia offences of theft and whipping for alcohol etc. offences are true but apart from basic human rights of Palestinians which are offended and infringed, this is also a disaster. The ANC did not have these problems because it had a social programme – something neither Hamas or Fateh have ever had.
5. I understand why Hamas has arisen, not least because of Israeli encouragement back in the 1980’s, given the Palestinians are a refugee people with a diffuse working class unlike the Black South African working class which gave a ballast to the ANC and turned it into an organisation with a social and political programme. The PLO by contrast says different things to different people (e.g. over the Boycott, something which Hamas has virtually ignored).
6. An example of the blundering approach of Hamas has been their rockets or firecrackers. They may have psychologically terrorised Sderot but in practice their effect on Israelis has been minimal. Indeed they may only have killed 20 Israelis in 8 years but they have killed thousands of Palestinians by default. Just like the suicide bomb they are understandable as an act of individual rage but as a political response they have been an utter disaster. A unilateral cessation of these rockets, and a call for that from Palestinians might be the best help that could be given to the people of Gaza.
On your own letter to Israelis just a few comments. It is based on the belief that the average Israeli is a rational human being susceptible to logic and argument. That too is a fallacy. You miss Zionist out of the equation. In so far as the average Israeli is committed to a Jewish state they will see non-Jews and Arabs as inferior beings, literally sub-human. They will therefore see no reason for according them equal rights. At best they will disagree over tactics but in terms of aims they have no fundamental disagreement. This has been the historical position of both left and right Zionists, peacemongers and warmongers. Anyone who has studied the history of Brit Shalom, the cream of the Zionist intelligentsia in the 1920s and 1930s will know that, with few exceptions, it consisted of people who were no less committed to the Zionist agenda but thought they could sweet talk Palestinians into that agenda – people like Arthur Ruppin, Chaim Arlossoroff, Kalvarisky, Gershom Scholem et al.
Palestinians need a new strategy which takes this on board. What has happened in Gaza has made people aware of what the real state of play is, for the moment, it is therefore an opportunity that should not be squandered.
Tony Greenstein
January 11, 2009 8:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
Tony,
Thank you for your interesting article and the thoughts you pose.
Just a thought. Not every Jew is a Zionist and not every Zionist is a Jew.
January 12, 2009 1:10 AM | Reply | Permalink
"an organisation with a social and political programme."
That's just what Hamas is.
You like to hear yourself talk too much.
January 12, 2009 11:14 AM | Reply | Permalink
I do not take sides on Israeli - Palestinian issues, I long since lost respect for the political leadership on both sides (and the populace for acceding to it democratically), but I remain confused by the rhetoric.
1. Why are nonaligned persons so broken up over a serious invasion that might, in theory, end the struggle? I mean, if Israel really does kill enough people to scare Hamas off, that would be a solution, right?
2. Why does either Israel or Palestine have "rights", to exist or otherwise? Nations are sovereign, they don't have rights, they have armies. If they can't defend their borders...
January 12, 2009 1:37 PM | Reply | Permalink
A response to Sammy Bahour
By Sam Shube, Jerusalem
As one of the Israeli citizens whom you address, I applaud your letter as a necessary corrective to the tribal mentality of Israeli journalists and publicists during this critical juncture. My country's inability to accept the legitimacy of alternative perspectives at times of crisis is to our discredit. I might comment on the parallel inability of the Arab and Muslim world to do the same, but this is more your problem than ours, and in any case is beyond the purview of your letter.
But while your polemic is corrective, it is far from constructive and smacks of the same self justifying reductionism that characterizes Israel's paleoconservative right. It is, you argue with a rising crescendo of historical references, nothing less than myopia for Israelis not to understand that it is their own fault. We, after all, needlessly imposed sanctions on Gaza following the election of the Hamas. The Israeli reductionist would not doubt respond that rockets and mortars had been hitting Israeli towns long before those elections, the sanctions, even the Gaza pullout. Of course, as you rightly point out, Palestinian territories have been under occupation since 1967, trumping the Kassam argument chronologically. But to the litany of Israeli malfeasance during the occupation – something few Israeli readers of your column would deny – our own reductionists would point out that the conflict began long before 1967, at a time when "the Arabs" controlled the West Bank and Gaza. Obviously, anyone with even the least historical sensibility would respond that Israeli culpability began not when our tanks first rolled into Nablus 40 years ago, but rather when our troops marched into Ramla, Lod, Safed and Jaffa 20 years before that. Not to be outdone, the Israeli reductionist would pin the blame for the Naqbe on Palestinian rejection of the UN partition of 1947. But how, you might retort, can the Palestinians be blamed for their skepticism of Zionism after the unjust dispossession of Arab tenant farmers in the Hula valley during the British Mandate? Israeli reductionists, not be outdone, would no doubt point to Arab riots as far back as 1921, and so on, and so forth. There really is no end to this, particularly when you consider that it was the Philistines who decapitated our beloved King Saul. But then again, you could legitimately fire back, what was Saul's head doing in the vicinity of Bet Shean in the first place? Indeed, didn't Samson start it all with his criminal demolition of a Philistine house of prayer? Can't you Jews see what an overreaction this was to a haircut?
Historical reductionism is utterly useless in the face of F-15's and Grad Missiles. You will no sooner accept my narrative than I will yours. This war is not about who is right. It is, ultimately, about interests. I trust, Mr. Bahour, that you would never join a hamas demonstration where effigies of exploding Israeli passenger busses are displayed with glee. Trust me, Mr. Bahour: most Israelis would not like to kill 100,000 Gazans – even if some idiot told you so. Interests are concrete and measurable, not accusatory or metaphysical. And so, in the name of reason, let me bring the debate back to a place where deals can be cut, rockets can be silenced, and tanks can be rolled back. As an Israeli citizen, I have absolutely no desire to hinder Palestinian cigarette imports at the Erez crossing, or Palestinian export of Tomatoes via Nahal Oz. What I want is to terminate the supply of ordnance, explosives, weapons and rockets from Sinai. Let fisherman ply the coast, and farmers build hothouses on the sands where Gush Qatif once stood. I cannot agree that any future Palestinian government, whatever its ideological bent may be, will have the wherewithal to fire rockets at Ashdod or Yavne. Do you see all this rocketeering as a fundamental human right, or an unfortunate by-product? If the latter, we have something to talk about. My interests – and yours – are real, unlike the masochistic competition to show who suffers most. How can I compete with demonstrators carrying bloodied baby dolls in Madrid? How can you compete with my holocaust? I won't be part of that game. But if we put aside the saccharine sop of self justification, I think you'll find a relevant partner even in such a brutal and myopic Israeli as me.
January 12, 2009 4:37 PM | Reply | Permalink
Sam said:
Sam, I'm sorry, but I don't see it. The basis for Mr. Bahour's argument does not seem so much reductionist in itself to me as it seems to occasionally use history by way of background and explanation. So, when you claimed it contained a "rising crescendo of historical references," I had to re-read the article once again, but although there were some historical references, a rising crescendo was nowhere to be found. While I agree that the historical debate is unwinnable, because the "winner" of the debate is solely a function of who gets to choose what period of time the debate should consider, Mr. Barbour made any number of suggestions for other more productive approaches that Israel could have taken to the issue of the rockets, rather than the current onslaught of Gaza. Why didn't you address Mr. Barbour's suggestions?
And why didn't you address any of his questions? To paraphrase:
1. Do you recognize that Gaza is the occupied territory of Israel, and therefore Israel's actions are illegal under international law?
2. Should Israel allow the presence of an international force in the OTs? If not, why not?
3. Should Israel allow non-violent protests of it's actions and of it's occupation?
4. Was it a mistake for Israel (and the U.S., but that part is my own question) to refuse to accept the result of the Palestinian elections, and instead attempt to subvert the will of the Palestinian people.
5. Was the blockade of Gaza a mistake on the part of Israel?
January 12, 2009 5:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
Since 2000, according to Democracy Now (the link to yesterday's show is not up yet), one commentator (an enthusiastic and voluble apologist for the Palestinians) reported that while the Israelis have counted 8,000 "qassam" rockets fired from Palestine into Gaza--little more than RPGs, albeit deadly if you happen to be within range (about 20 yards)-- Israelis have themselves fired more than 10 times that many--and exponentially larger and more powerful--missiles, artillery shells and air-borne bombs INTO Gaza over that same period.
The spectre of the suicide-bombed Israeli bus smoldering in the street is horrendous. It will ALWAYS be widely promulgated--make the front pages/top story--through the 'civilized world'. The artillery or F-15 borne, air-to-ground missile-shattered autos or mini-buses in Gaza are ignored--in no small part because the Israelis won't permit outside reporters into their 'combat zones.'
It is credulous and naive to believe that the Israelis do NOT harbor territorial ambitions in Palestine. They already have wrapped up all the water and other natural resources sufficiently to prevent a Palestinian state to hold the whip-hand in any future discussion of the distribution of those resources in some truce-divided state...
January 13, 2009 9:32 AM | Reply | Permalink