At last, UN Passes Ceasefire: Israel Says It Will Ignore It
Last night the United States at last permitted the Security Council to pass a ceasefire resolution. Apparently Bush and Rice had reached the breaking point, probably after this. which was huge news worldwide.
The Security Council then passed a good resolution which, in a first, the United
States did not veto.
Immediately following the vote, the Palestinian foreign minister expressed some satisfaction but predicted Israel will ignore it. "They won't implement it. They will say it is almost the Shabbat and they can't violate it. Of course, they began the war on the Shabbat but stopping a war is a violation. No, they won't stop."
And now, this "hell, no" from Olmert.
Read this from Gideon Levy, veteran of the IDF, serious Israeli journalist, on the war and morality. From Ha'aretz.
If only I could believe Olmert was serious. I have a nice conspiracy theory that says that Bush coordinated the abstention from the UN Security Council resolution with Olmert so that Olmert can turn around and say to us Israelis "I wanted to push on, but the UN stopped us, what can I do?...."
It is interesting to monitor MJ and his fellow Jewish Israel bashers Phil Weiss and Richard Silverstein. Each is, understandably, greatly purturbed at the situation from their point of view, i.e. Israel using armed force to defend itself. All are making far more postings than usual and each seems to be keeping score at the number of newspaper columns and anti-Israel demonstrators there are and pointing at them in triumph as if this shows that their anti-Israel side is winning. Weiss showed a picture of 3 supposedly Jewish anti-Israel demonstrators in Los Angeles, implying this represents some sort of a trend. Silverstein triumphantly says Time Magazine has come out against Israel. I don't know how many Israelis are going to lose sleep over the loss of support from TIME. TIME claims that Israel is going to have to recognize HAMAS in the end, and this is somehow going to make them more "moderate" and bring them to repudiate their own self-declared war to the death with Israel. I guess TIME has the same values as the rest of the "progressive" camp...."every man has his price....we'll pay HAMAS to become more moderate, just like we did with Arafat". (How did that work out in the end?) Why Silverstein should attribute powers of predicting the future to TIME is beyond me. However, MJ is the only one so far to have gone recruiting those who have passed on into the ranks of his camp. I am referring to his earlier posting saying Harvey Milk would oppose Israel. That is really stretching it, MJ, isn't it?
January 9, 2009 7:56 AM | Reply | Permalink
Other opponents of this war, not just Harvey.
MLK, Eleanor Roosevelt, Theodor Herzl, Gandhi, JFK, Bobby, Paul Wellstone.
I'll keep you posted.
PS I know what King said in the 1960's. I know what I said in the 1960's. Not to compare us, but neither he nor I are saying those things now.
January 9, 2009 10:17 AM | Reply | Permalink
Do you mean, You don't support Stalin anymore?
January 9, 2009 10:21 AM | Reply | Permalink
MJ supports Stalin?
I must have missed those columns.
January 9, 2009 12:32 PM | Reply | Permalink
Well, you know from where SholomA/Davai/tnathan pulled that "information," don't you?
Think proctologist.
January 9, 2009 1:13 PM | Reply | Permalink
YBD:
One need only to look at the comments section for the Gideon Levy article (in Haaretz) that MJ referenced to confirm that the times are changin', as MJ says. The comments for most articles I've read there at Haaretz over the last several years seem to be, if not dominated by, then at least significantly populated by posters with a settler mentality. But the Levy article shows a definite change. Here's just a sampling of the comment responses:
January 9, 2009 3:28 PM | Reply | Permalink
Oh jeez...I hit "Submit" instead of "Preview" - I hadn't finished editing. My apologies. I hope that the reader can figure out what that comment was all about.
Has anyone else noticed the problems here at TPM in editing material that occurs within blockquotes? One has to manually put in all the punctuation, such as paragraphing. Is there any plan for a WYSIWYG text editor? I like the formating to look good an be readable, but I'm constantly goofing up, mostly because I am far from being a HTML expert. Should one really need a crash course in HTML to post at TPM?
(OK, I have to admit I'm feeling peevish right now because of my mistake...)
January 9, 2009 3:37 PM | Reply | Permalink
I just wanted to mention that there seems to be a lot of venom in reader comments as to Israel in the press these days.
This strikes me as really odd -- in recent years, the only politically acceptable position Americans could have has been "my Israel, right or wrong." Now this seems to be shifting. An article in the W.Post today (can't link it for some reason, it's about 100 Gazans rescued) has reader comments running 8 or 10 to one against Israel. Some of these are *really* foul, of course.
I can't believe the reasons are purely based on facts; Americans were eager to go to war against Iraq which hadn't attacked USA and couldn't, then couldn't be convinced for years that there were no WMD. Not real fact-oriented. Do Americans partly associate their current dislike for Bush (whom they once so adored) with this subject, I wonder? I began to see this trend as Dems got madder and madder at Joe Lieberman and began to say highly politically incorrect things, BTW; it may be further accelerating. Quite a move by Bush not to veto the resolution, BTW.
January 9, 2009 8:30 AM | Reply | Permalink
Maybe this explains the "venom": http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/jan/09/gaza-palestinians-israel-evacuees-zeitoun
January 9, 2009 10:01 AM | Reply | Permalink
Does Israel ignoring this UN Resolution mean Bush will invade Israel?
January 9, 2009 9:07 AM | Reply | Permalink
No, John. We only enforce UN resolutions against Arabs.
January 9, 2009 9:43 AM | Reply | Permalink
Bush is done invading places except for poor Dallas. It was just getting over 11/22/63.
January 9, 2009 11:02 AM | Reply | Permalink
The media has turned. Public opinion has turned.
January 9, 2009 10:14 AM | Reply | Permalink
And the Bush administration has turned.
January 9, 2009 10:14 AM | Reply | Permalink
People like you are a big part of it.
P.S. Expect lots of CYA's coming out of Washington in the next few weeks.
And by my calculation, Mr. Abbas stops being president of the P.A. today. Time for elections.
January 9, 2009 10:17 AM | Reply | Permalink
I think Condi turned Bush around. If only it had happened sooner.
Also, I wonder if Obama weighed in. Bush is who he is, but if Obama said "I need this," I think Bush would do it.
January 9, 2009 10:27 AM | Reply | Permalink
Good point.
It's amazing to me that Bush suddenly listens to people after not doing that for the last 8 years. And, unless I am mistaken, this 'trend' actually started after the '06 Dem takeover. Maybe it took a good punch to the chops to get him to listen a little bit.
January 9, 2009 11:32 AM | Reply | Permalink
MJ,
so Bush wouldn't give Obama Blair House but he'll
give Obama the abstain vote?
Bush is trying desperately to improve his legacy, this non vote and the recent declaration of the environmental area in the Pacific are just part of it.
January 9, 2009 12:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
Are you sure that is for real? I have little confidence in my speculation, since I don't know much about the complexities of this conflict. I do know that there is little that Bush gave up on in the last eight years, no matter what the circumstances (except, apparently, the desire to go after Iran). So given the timing of this, I wondered if this move by Israel could lead to a claim that Iran got involved (or Iran actually getting involved) and somehow end up as the reason for strikes on Iran. Highly speculative, but after the last eight years, anything seems possible.
January 9, 2009 11:38 AM | Reply | Permalink
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1231424898949&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull
January 9, 2009 10:20 AM | Reply | Permalink
This from the AP:
Osama Hamdan, a Hamas envoy to Lebanon, told the al-Arabiya satellite channel that the group "is not interested in it because it does not meet the demands of the movement."
Your headline is one-sided; neither side is interested in the cease fire.
Resolutions are cheap. Would any of the EU countries really support economic sanctions against Israel, etc? Has Egypt really made an effort to suppress the importation of rockets into Gaza? The war is extremely popular in Israel right now and empty rhetoric without action is unlikely to dissuade Israel.
Eventually there will be a cease-fire, of course, but only when both sides are sufficiently pressured to stop. Israel knows that if it quits now, Hamas will declare "victory" and use the cease-fire to import more weapons. The Israelis are going to drag this out until they get an international force that will keep Hamas from launching rockets at them-- as they achieved with their actions in Lebanon. They got bad PR then too, but the rockets stopped. End of story.
January 9, 2009 10:25 AM | Reply | Permalink
Thanks,somibear, for joining the ranks of the sensible here.
January 9, 2009 12:41 PM | Reply | Permalink
I wonder how many large-circulation American papers reprint pieces by Israeli columnists like Levy and Ze'ev Sternhell. Not too many, I bet. Their work is bracing, excruciatingly honest - and would be condemned as "anti-Semitic" and the work of "self-hating Jews" if widely read in the United States. (In fact, Levy is chronically libeled with these accusations in Ha'aretz internet edition posts.) One of the silent partners of the pro-war, pro-Likud Israeli lobby in this country is our collective acquiescence witnessing this torturous, ongoing depredation. Intimidated by the same accusations Levy faces every day, we cork up and look away. Some of us, damnably, parrot the shabby lies and empty slogans underwriting the bloodshed. When spines are needed, we swim with the jellyfish.
January 9, 2009 10:34 AM | Reply | Permalink
January 9, 2009 11:33 AM | Reply | Permalink
SholomA quotes Wingnut central: "Would there have been an incursion if the self-proclaimed peace and justice crowd had done something other than providing forums for blatant propagandists justifying murder?"
I don't know. Ask her.
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_O5OuU90ru-Y/SWPuWE6wbpI/AAAAAAAAC28/8qUW8l0a5-Y/s1600-h/268714-2.jpg
January 9, 2009 12:26 PM | Reply | Permalink
Would there have been an Israeli incursion into Gaza if people like you who went into the streets to stop Israel had earlier gone into the streets to protest the rockets that rained down on Sderot for seven years?
January 9, 2009 12:36 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'm too busy burying Palestinian children to hold your hand right now.
January 9, 2009 1:14 PM | Reply | Permalink
What about Afghan Ch?ildren
January 9, 2009 1:50 PM | Reply | Permalink
I am perfectly willing to give up American "settlements" in Afghanistan. Are the Zionists willing to do the same?
January 9, 2009 2:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
January 9, 2009 11:39 AM | Reply | Permalink
More Wingnut wisdom: "Hamas, however, is simply too savage and brutal to even warrant attempts at negotiation."
Who are the savages?
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_O5OuU90ru-Y/SWOlzDKo5-I/AAAAAAAAC20/0980zl7ytOU/s1600-h/081227-abunimah-gaza.jpg
January 9, 2009 12:29 PM | Reply | Permalink
Didn't the UN create Israel? I have watched that historic UN vote.
Now, according to Israel's leaders it's an outside agency. It has no power over Israel, not even persuasive power and is dismissed entirely.
Is there an Hamas leader in Gaza left alive who can make a statement? We have contradictory statements coming from exiled Hamas people but who is really the Hamas leader right now?
Ismail Haniyeh is in a bunker somewhere in Gaza and hasn't been heard from in a week, that I know of.
January 9, 2009 12:08 PM | Reply | Permalink
Didn't you create your child? Now, according to your adult child you are an outside agency. You has no power over your child, not even persuasive power and is dismissed entirely.
January 9, 2009 12:28 PM | Reply | Permalink
What about Afghan Children?
January 9, 2009 1:49 PM | Reply | Permalink
SholomA - You seem to want to give Israel a free pass on all their actions. This disturbs me no end. These are my people and my faith. Yes, I am very concerned by American atrocities in Iraq, Afganiatan and elsewhere. I raised my voice in protest. However, when my people commit atrocities it cuts right to my soul. Yes, I hold Jews to a higher standard, it is demanded by my faith.
Reading the talkbacks on JP and Haaretz makes me so angry that I cannot see straight. I see language about the killing, annihilation and need to destroy arabs that with the change of a noun could easily come from Hamas. Some of that hateful language comes from non -Jews/Israelis. However, when I read the Hebrew press I see the exact same language - that I cannot dismiss as the words of non-Jews. Are the people who write such hate, really of the same tribe?
January 9, 2009 2:58 PM | Reply | Permalink