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Letter From Gaza Plus The Most Heartbreaking Image From This War

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A letter from Gaza. I removed only personal references.

I'm writing you for the latest update from my small home in Gaza, today we are hosting 6 families from different locations in Gaza; 14 of them are DELETED family, my sister and her family are 6 and tomorrow we will host my mother in law and her 2 daughters in addition to her neighbor; an old man and his wife.

This morning I asked DELETED to call his sister to come to our home but he said they are 8 members and I don't want to make more terrible for you but his mother asked him to bring her, at 11:00 am she came with her 5 daughters, 1 son and her husband; they where hosted by UN school, at 4:00 pm the same UN school targeted by the IAF where at least 30 Palestinian killed. I it's crazy. the two parties are crazy and they forget their humanity.

Some one should stand to stop this, some one should end this tragedy, that's enough, and I'm confirming no one can end the other, they have to understand that. Israel is strong country by all the meaning of the word and Hamas is not only Islamic group won the election because of the PA corruption or the failure of the peace process, Hamas is not only an armed militia, Hamas is a social movement by all the meaning of the word.

I'm losing the battery of my computer, but I want to end by saying that by tomorrow we will be in one place 31 souls, 31 humans, 31 just like me because you all know me. and I think you all love me and care about me. what if by "mistake" we targeted by the IAF??? Can you imagine the tragedy.? I never look in black eyes, but the picture is black. I wish I'm wrong.


Stay in peace.


And this from the New York Times:

"Hundreds of members of the clan flooded in to Shifa Hospital, all from Zeitoun, many in shock. Masouda al-Samouni, 20, lost her mother-in-law, her husband and her 10-month-old son. She said she had been preparing food for the baby when the missile struck. "He died hungry," she said."


42 Comments

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Pro-Hizbullah newspaper said, "Israel would be satisfied with a compromise, but the Arab regimes want to finish Hamas completely." It's probably right. Israeli leaders define victory as a weakened and humbled Hamas that will halt all the attacks, honor a cease-fire and accept international supervision. Hamas, on the other hand, will declare a great victory simply if its leadership is still breathing.

Arab leaders know this is a proxy war with Iran, and Israel is on their side. Some day they may even find the courage to say so publicly.
Until then, we'll have to settle for more "booyays."


http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1231167283853&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull
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Why the Israeli people have finally had enough

So, it's genocide now, is it? Or is it actually another holocaust, something which one typically restrained Palestinian analyst described as "worse than Hitler's war against the Jews"? Are we watching the ethnic cleansing of an entire people? Are we witnessing the deliberate eradication of a race?

Well, no actually, we're not.

Yet the conventional dinner party wisdom which we've had to put up with in the media, both here in Ireland and generally across Britain, is that somehow Israel is the aggressor in the rapidly worsening situation in Gaza.

Footage of air strikes with the ensuing photogenic explosions and dramatic plumes of smoke, quickly followed by clips of collapsed buildings and enraged mourners, makes far better copy than actually looking at the reasons why Israel has done what it's done.

Anyone who devotes only a cursory glance at the news, both print and television, would be forgiven for thinking that, out of spite, might and malice, Israel has decided to destroy the Palestinian people.

The problem with that conclusion -- and it's not something you're going to learn from the BBC and most other outlets -- is that, contrary to the currently popular belief, Israel is actually acting with a ridiculous degree of restraint.

Over the last couple of years, thousands of rockets have been landing on Israeli soil and, finally, they have had enough.

But behind that statistic there is a human dimension which tends to be rather ignored.

I know many people in the southern Israeli town of Sderot and what is remarkable about their stories is not the number or make of rockets which have fallen on them on a daily basis for years, but the psychological carnage this wreaked upon them.

One woman freely admitted to me that she hasn't had a proper night's sleep in more than two years as she and her family now basically live in their bomb shelter and it's hard to tell who she hates more -- the Muslim terrorists of Hamas or the Israeli government which she thinks has abandoned them.

It's a common feeling amongst residents of southern Israeli towns who have been the silent victims of a long campaign of violence, intimidation and murder carried out by Hamas. And now, finally, that the Israelis have said that enough is enough, they are somehow meant to be the aggressors?

There are people of good conscience on both sides of this argument, but one of the main problems in this debate lies in the cowardly tendency of the Western media to apply equivalence to both sides.

Thus, Hamas is seen to be as legitimate a government as the Israelis, and its rocket attacks across the border from Gaza are seen as being part of a yet another, intractable, interminable Middle Eastern dispute.

There's just one problem with that approach -- it's completely wrong.

Hamas is a fundamentalist Islamic organisation intent on the eradication of the state of Israel and all its citizens; a violent fascist regime that allows honour killings and the execution of homosexuals to continue in its sphere of influence. Bankrolled by Iran, it manages to make even Hezbollah look like a moderate organisation.

But Hamas is clever.

As a friend of mine from Sderot pointed out, one of its favourite tactics is to launch Qassams from Palestinian schoolyards -- while the schools are still in session.

Hamas does this, you see, knowing that the IDF can't immediately strike back (they can vector a rocket launch site within 90 seconds) because the last thing the Israelis need is footage of a devastated Palestinian school with dead kids.

And, over the last week, we have seen carefully manipulated footage of dead civilians, with the fact that they were effectively used as human shields conveniently ignored. When Israel pulled out of Gaza -- ironically, the last battalion of IDF troops to leave Gaza contained some people from Sderot -- they were acceding to international and internal pressure. The doves on the Left said it was to prove to Palestinians that they wanted to give Palestinians independence, the hawks on the Right -- and there are some truly scary right-wingers in Israel, even as ardent a supporter of the country as I am will freely admit that -- prophesied that it would lead to carnage.

And, lo and behold, virtually as soon as the last jeep left Gaza the rockets started. And then the blockade began, and the whole damn mess started all over again.

http://www.independent.ie/lifestyle/why-the-israeli-people-have-finally-had-enough-1592022.html
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The key here is the vague pronoun: "Some one should end this tragedy." Why doesn't the writer of the letter, and her 31 member household, non-violently implore Hamas to stop shooting off rockets? The the people of Gaza voted for Hamas, knowing full well that once in power they would militarize the Strip, attacking Israel with terror weapons, and provoke an Israeli response. While children everywhere are innocent, the Gazan civilians who support Hamas are to some degree culpable in their own suffering, just as the Israeli civilians who tolerated the policies that led to the rise of Hamas and other Palestinian terrorist organizations are culpable in their suffering. As Sherman said to the people of Atlanta, "Now that war comes to you, you feel very different." Certainly the global community should push vigorously for a cease-fire, but the atavistic and artificial distinction between fighters and the civilians who support them with food, shelter, munitions, and so on-- should be laid to rest.

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"artificial distinction between fighters and civilians"
Wow. go to the holocaust museum sometime

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I have to agree with M.J. on this.

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To say "artificial distinction between fighters and civilians" is not only harmless but tautological: everything about war is man-made.

Mr. Poster prefers an artificial nondiscrimination amongst his enemies? Well, that is OK with me, as long as he does not absurdly pretend to have kidnapped Mother Nature for his team.

"Atavistic distinction between fighters and civilians" might be worth talking about, although I suspect it is just a trick of perspective. Civilized behavior is not really old, it is merely old to Mr. Poster personally, not often thought of now that he has relocated to the neo-Levant.

Happy days.

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Wow. It's always the Holocaust, isn't it? Why not Darfur or the Congo?

I was speaking specifically about nations or societies in which civilians directly support military action, either through the ballot box or through economic activity, such as manufacturing munitions, providing food and uniforms, etc.

The Holocaust analogy seems to me deeply flawed because the Jews were not a nation or a society in the way Hamas-led Gaza is; they were citizens of different states, with no connection other than a religion or shared ancestry. If The Protocols of the Elders of Zion had been true, and the majority of European Jews actually supported a vast conspiracy to undermine and destroy Christian Europe, then I suppose Hitler's genocide would have been at least partially justifiable. If Palestinians in the West Bank massacred a large number of Messianic settler nutjobs, I think they would be largely justified, except in the case of the children. My argument is similar to that made by Hamas in justifying its attacks on Israeli "civilians," most of whom serve in the Israeli military at some point and remain in the reserves, and who have benefited from Palestinian oppression economically, and who regularly elect hawkish politicians who represent their views.

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RAMALLAH, WEST BANK -- When Usama Abu Nahel looks at the conflict in Gaza he feels nothing but contempt. He is one of the people who hate Hamas more than the Israelis do. It was 19 months ago when Mr. Abu Nahel, then 25 and a member of Fatah's al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigades in Gaza, was dragged from his house by a group of Hamas militants, taken to one of their warehouses and "kneecapped." He was shot 30 times in the left leg, doctors said; then in the right leg six times. "As I lay on the ground in agony, they ran over me in their jeep," he recalls. He'd like to spit as he says this, but not in the neat room he keeps in a house for victims such as him in Ramallah. ..... "Hamas works for Iran. They brought us back to the Stone Age," says Mohammed Abu Zakari, 48, who lost one of his legs after a Hamas shooting in the civil conflict. He has left his wife and 12 of his 13 children behind in Gaza. His 13th child, 19-year-old Ahmed, is with him, another Hamas victim whose ankle has been reconstructed. "I'm happy to see them eradicated," he said, blaming Hamas for the carnage and destruction now taking place in Gaza. Mahmoud as-Shatat, 23, a former student leader for Fatah, agrees. "Hamas consider us infidels," he said. "They brutalized us, their own people. I have no sympathy for them." And what of the pictures on TV showing the ordinary people of Gaza being shelled? "Hamas shoots from between houses," Mr. as-Shatat said. "They hope Israel will fire at them and kill some civilians." An uneasy quiet then settled over the room. Mr. Abu Nahel broke the silence: "I want those who shot me to die," he said. "But those are our families being shelled," including the fiancée he left behind in Gaza City. "It's more important now that Israel stop the shooting."
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20090107.GAZAFATAH07/TPStory/TPInternational/Africa/
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Dahlan's secret policemen make great sources for Isareli news channels. But then, Benedict Arnold provided the British with lots of intel too.

For some background on Gaza's former Torturer-in-Chief see http://electronicintifada.net/v2/article6275.shtml

Money quote from the article: "Throughout the years, Dahlan's forces were involved in acts of violence and intimidation against critics, journalists and members of opposition groups, primarily from Hamas, imprisoning them without formal charges for weeks or months at a time. A number of prisoners died under suspicious circumstances during or after interrogation by Dahlan's forces."

And now his agents are happy that the IDF is pounding Gaza. There is a name for people like that. See Benedict Arnold above.

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Thank you, SholomA, for bringing out these important facts. One of the Israel bashers who was quoted by someone here at TPM said "HAMAS, unlike the Jordanian regime, was elected democratically AND NEVER USES TORTURE". Really?

Here is a good column by Evelyn Gordon in the Jerusalem Post about what must be the ultimate mission of Israel in Gaza.


http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1231167305716&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FPrinter


PS-
Full disclosure:
My wife made her first posting here at TPM yesterday using the name "Len". I then posted some comments and forgot to change the name that was used. Thus, the rest under her name were actually mine.

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I should also point out that Leftist Israeli author Amos Oz, "progressive", "peace lover", member of MERETZ, supporter of Oslo, anti-settler, etc, etc, also said that HAMAS wants there to be as many civilian casualties as possible on their side.

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Really excellent interview in the Jerusalem Post with a fellow named Rees who spent considerable time in Israel, Judea/Samaria and Gaza and got to know the Palestinians intimately. He is both a journalist and now a novelist as well. Note how he points out that Palestinian society can not be judged in Western terms and that it is superficial to view the Palestinians as either all "victims" or "terrorists" (the first is the MJ Rosenberg take on what is going on).


http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1231167303018&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull

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Indeed, whoever thinks that Hamas' sensibilities are similar to Western ones should ask himself some hard questions. Such as: Why don't the Arab residents of the Gaza strip set up protest demonstrations against the Hamas "government"? What? Are they afraid of being murdered by their own leaders? Hmmmm.... That doesn't jive with Western sensibilities. Or what happened to all the money sent by the international community to the Palestinians to help them develop their state-in-process? Was it used to pay Egypt or Iran for weapons? Or socked in a Swiss bank account? Hmmmm.... Where is the financial accountability that exists in Western countries? Or how about this one: Why does Hamas train their children to become suicide bombers? Hmmmm.... You mean there are no laws protecting the rights of children? Western civilizations provide basic rights for their citizens while the Hamas government feels they can do whatever they want with theirs. They want to be a state? They first have to provide their own people with rights, just like the Founding Fathers did in the U.S. when the American government was first set up. Until then, as a person who supports human rights, I have to say that it is the Palestinian government who are acting as uncivilized barbarians, and I don't see much hope in their setting up a "democratic" state.

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Nelle said: "Until then, as a person who supports human rights, I have to say that it is the Palestinian government who are acting as uncivilized barbarians, and I don't see much hope in their setting up a "democratic" state."

hmm....the IDF is one killing all these children. But then again, they are killing Arab children, so that's allright. When you kill a Jewish child, then you become an "uncivilized barbarian."

Everytime I read a post like yours, I forward to a friend with this note: "This is Zionism." People are starting to catch on.

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Come on guys. You seem to think the Palestinians have no legitimate grievences against Israel. If all this turmoil was just a recent phenomenon, I might be more understanding of your position. BUT this has been going on for almost 41 years. What about all those years where Hamas was NOT even a gleam in anyone's eyes. Israel kept the Palestinians stateless and under their boot and essentially told them to F*#k off. They tried the non violent route and it got them no where. I know I was there during that period.

Abbas has spent the last year negotiating non violently and where did it get him? No where. I no more like Hamas than the next Jew but like it or not they are now part of the fabric of Palestine and will have to be part of the negotiations if Israel ever wants a complete peace.

Israel is extremely strong now, militarily and economically and can fight off any challenges that they might face. If they withdraw to the 67 borders it puts the airport and population centers within rocket range. With the more modern rockets the Palestinians have and/or will have those same targets are still in range.

If Israel would make an offer that is too good to turn down, announce it to the world, and let world and muslim pressure force a conclusion to the deal - Israel would have peace. I'm sure their would be incidents that Israel would have to tamp down on but over time all the positives will solidify. This crappy nickel and dime negotiations will never get anywhere. Is it REALLY worth 50-100 yearts more misery for Israel to ultimately come out with a couple more dunams of land.

As a LONG time observer of Israel and Palestine an offer of essential withdrawal to the 67 lines (with minor modifications, like the Western Wall) limited face saving return of refugees (like 5000/year with substantial documentation)a $30 billion compensation package for Palestinians and a similar amount for Israeli settlers, an arrangement that Jews could live in Judea and Samaria subject to the laws of Palestine would seal the deal forever.

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JLEDELL-
The conflict, in its armed phase, has not been going on 41 years, it has been going on almost 90 years...the first organized Arab onslaught on the Jewish Yishuv in Eretz Israel was in 1920...long before there was a state of Israel, or before there were Arabs who called themselves "Palestinians", before there were refugess, before there was a Gaza Strip, before there was an organized Judea/Samaria settlement movement.....

Olmert offered the Palestinians a settlement along the lines you stated. The Palestinians rejected it. They will not accept the Right of Return only being implemented "symbolically" as you have indicated. That is wishful thinking.

Did you read the article about Rees I gave the link to above? I don't agree with everything he says but he makes a lot of good points.

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Ben David - Yes I read the story about Rees and I liked his perspective - not that I agreed with everything. But I think it was closer to the truth than what I usually read in the Post.

You are correct that the violence has been going on for 90 years but not all of it generated by the arabs. Remember my grandfather was Irgun and when he took me to Israel for my Bar Mitzvah in 1956 I met with many of his old buddies. Maybe their stories were embellished over time and drink but they sure made an impression on me that has stayed to this day.

I simply do not believe that Olmert made an offer along the lines of what I suggested. In November when I was last there, the details that I heard about were full of caveats and loopholes and like Camp David unacceptable. As a Jew I certainly would not trust Israel without EVERYTHING spelled out in detail if I were a Palestinian. Israeli politicians love their cleverness too much.

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jdledell,

was your grandfather in Europe during WWII?

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JohnW1141 - My grandfather's family lived in Aix en Provence, France. In 1939 my grandfather could see what was coming and sent his wife and children to America to live with relatives while he stayed behind. He had a small store and as the local anti-semitism became more acute in Nazi occupied France (his store was burned down as was his home)he escaped to Marseilles and a friend took him aboard a fishing boat. He hopscotched accross the Mediterranean until landing in Israel in June 1943.

His anger quickly brought him to the attention of the Irgun and he stayed and fought while constantly hiding from the Brits. He finally got disgusted with all the violence and left in February, 1948 and reunited with the rest of his family in America.

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jdledell,

I'm happy to hear your grandfather and his family escaped.

I asked because as an American GI during the war I helped liberate a concentration camp in Germany, and now and then when the Holocaust comes up I often wonder whatever happened to those poor souls we liberated.

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You are offering a solution. That is not allowed!

Note the immediate response from YBD below. Totally predictable.

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Regarding the myth that has been repeated recently here at TPM that says "Gaza is the most densely populated place on earth", well, here are the facts:

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According to the US Census Bureau's 2008 Statistical Abstract, Gaza is less densely populated than Gibraltar, Singapore, Hong Kong, Monaco and Macau. In fact, Macau (population 453,000) is four times more densely populated(42,271 per square mile) than Gaza (10,665 per square mile). Area Population Density (persons/sq. mile) Gaza 8666District of Columbia 9176Gibraltar 11,990Singapore 17,751Hong Kong 17,833Monaco 41,608Macau 71,466Cairo 82,893Calcutta 108,005Manila 113,810 Sources: Statistical Abstract of the United States, 2004-2005, Tables 18 and 1321; Demographia -- Population Density: Selected International Urban Areas and Components

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It is important to note that many of these densely populated places are quite prosperous. If only the Gazans had turned their attention to working on that aspect of their society as opposed to firing rockets at Israel....

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And the only one under Israeli control is .....Gaza. Connection?

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So if Hamas wants Israel to inflict lots of civilian casualties, the IDF should just do their bidding?

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They try their best not to inflict lots of civilian casualties.

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There is zero evidence to support your claim.

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Can you suggest a better military strategy? Can you point of a military campaign in urban area with small number of civilian casualties?

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False premise. You assume they are defending themselves. This is instructive: http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/jan/08/gaza-israel-hamas-us

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It doesn't matter. Just because you don't think that Israel defends itself effectively doesn't mean that the Israeli government can't use any military force.

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Very courageous post, Mr. Rosenberg, in letting a Palestinian to describe the "situation" in Gaza. It's bracingly free of all the usual crap: Civilians are dying because Hamas is using them as human shields... The Palestinians brought all this on themselves by electing Hamas... And the most savage lie: Israel did all it could to avoid this conflict. As you pointed out last week:

So the questions have to be asked. Does the Gaza war improve Israel's long-term (or even short-term) situation? Might it not have been better to induce Hamas to stop the shelling by ending the blockade Israel imposed back when Hamas won the Palestinian election? Was it right to insist that Hamas accept Israel in advance of negotiations rather than simply push for a total and absolute cessation of violence and blockade, followed by negotiations? Could Israel realistically expect the cease-fire to hold while Gaza remained under siege, rife with hunger, illness, and joblessness? And freezing cold. (Even during the cease-fire, Israel was turning on Gaza's heat and electricity only a few hours a day).

Israel did all it could do before riddling with artillery, bombs and rocket fire a high-density dogpatch it keeps in subhuman physical and spiritual squalor. Right.

A nuclear power we help prop up is showing the world it means business - you don't f*ck with Israel - by shredding children with one-ton bombs. We are encouraged, commanded, to look away. Here's a good piece on the atrocity of silence.


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What Israel is doing is a classic example of how to go about making, and increasing the number of, enemies for a lifetime.

Attacks on Israel does the same thing, as does our attacking in Iraq.

You cannot intentionally or unintentionally, kill innocent non combatants and get away with it.

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And doesn't it make you feel grand to see the Senate and House trying to outdo each other in rubber stamping Israel's actions?

Money talks, decency walks.

For some background: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/jan/07/gaza-israel-palestine

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Why would anybody who didn't hate Israel after the last Lebanon work would start hating Israel now?

You cannot intentionally or unintentionally, kill innocent non combatants and get away with it

Really? How the winners in all wars got away with it including WW2?

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Weren't there War Crimes Trubunals after the end of WW2?

How many people killed Germans and Japanese for the crimes they committted against civilians...family members?

How many Germans died because of what they did to the Jews? How many Japs died because of what they did to the Chinese? the Philippinos?

There were American soldiers in Europe who didn't take SS prisoners mainly because of what the SS did to civilians.

In a war, some may get away with it, but many pay, you just don't hear about them.

If we drop one of our "smart bombs" on a house in Iraq and kill some guy's wife and 3 kids, will he let us, meaning Americans, get away with it?

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There were War Crimes Tribunals after the end of WW2
however Americans were not prosecuted unintentionally killing innocent non combatants.

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As to the "winners" of all wars getting away with it;

When you win the war who is there to prosecute you?

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More pity from the jailer with the key.
Just open the gates. You'll feel better.

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Frank went further in an interview with New England Cable News, and I’m excerpting his remarks at length not only because they are a brilliant distillation of the situation (and of the nuttiness of J Street’s prescriptions), but because they sound not altogether different from the “neocon Likudniks” J Street and its capitulationist supporters frequently malign. Reporter: …I want to talk, first about the situation in the Middle East, a happening situation right now. It continues to develop. Three hundred more people dead as a result of Israel [pause] sending in, ah, air attacks into the Gaza strip. …[Livni clip]…Now we’ve heard the President of the United States, George Bush, call on Hamas to stop its attacks before any kind of process can begin here. What’s your impression of what’s going on over there, and what needs to be done? Rep. Frank: Well, I essentially agree with that. It’s a terrible thing to have happen but I think Americans ought to think about this frankly, as analogous to what we did in Afghanistan… But Congress voted with only one dissent in the House and none in the Senate to go to war with Afghanistan and what we did in Afghanistan is analogous to what Israel is doing in Gaza, namely, responding to that area where people were attacking us. America went to Afghanistan because Osama Bin Laden had been murdering people from Afghanistan, attacking America. We said to the Afghan government, “Give him up.” They refused. I then voted to go to war… Israel under Ariel Sharon, a great hawk, withdrew unilaterally from Gaza and said lets have some negotiations. People then took over in Gaza who say they shouldn’t be in Israel and who said we have a right to attack it whenever we want to and who in fact had been firing rockets into Israel. And I don’t think frankly if this had been Mexico or Ontario, firing rockets into America, that we would have sat back. Now I think that’s unfortunate. I do think Israel should be accompanying this by making clear that it’s ready to make peace. They should be at this point even more dismantling settlements in the West Bank where they have a more reasonable group of Palestinians to deal with. Reporter: Do you think that will come? Rep. Frank: I hope it will…But, ah, here’s a country, and remember that had been at truce and Hamas said, “no more truce,” and began to fire rockets into Israel. I don’t think America would sit back and not retaliate and they did; look, unfortunately in war, not unfortunately, tragically some civilians get killed. Israel does seem to have done a better job here frankly then we’ve done in Afghanistan in targeting combatants. They were aiming at the people who were firing the rockets and providing the physical security for the rocketeers.” Frank draws a direct analogy between the near-universal support among Americans for the war against the Taliban and Israel’s current operation against Hamas. That would make J Street the Barbara Lee of American Jewish politics. As I wondered about Schiff and Wexler, why did Frank accept the endorsement of this organization, and why has he not renounced its support? The only way that the J Street crowd can believe its pretension of representing the “broad, sensible mainstream of pro-Israel American Jews and their allies,” as Jeremy Ben-Ami once had the gall to claim, is by lying to themselves. It wouldn’t be the first time.
http://www.commentarymagazine.com/blogs/index.php/kirchick/49562
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I don't give a damn about JStreet.
There are no Arab members of that organization.
Nor would they want any. It's a whites only club

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Wow. It's always the Holocaust, isn't it? Why not Darfur or the Congo?

I was speaking specifically about nations or societies in which civilians directly support military action, either through the ballot box or through economic activity, such as manufacturing munitions, providing food and uniforms, etc.

The Holocaust analogy seems to me deeply flawed because the Jews were not a nation or a society in the way Hamas-led Gaza is; they were citizens of different states, with no connection other than a religion or shared ancestry. If The Protocols of the Elders of Zion had been true, and the majority of European Jews actually supported a vast conspiracy to undermine and destroy Christian Europe, then I suppose Hitler's genocide would have been at least partially justifiable. If Palestinians in the West Bank massacred a large number of Messianic settler nutjobs, I think they would be largely justified, except in the case of the children. My argument is similar to that made by Hamas in justifying its attacks on Israeli "civilians," most of whom serve in the Israeli military at some point and remain in the reserves, and who have benefited from Palestinian oppression economically, and who regularly elect hawkish politicians who represent their views.

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"the Jews were not a nation or a society in the way Hamas-led Gaza"
Wow. This is just getting cheaper, lazier and sleazier.

Was the Warsaw Ghetto "a nation or a society"?


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