Gaza-Stuck in the Mud and Storm?
Reports in the Israeli papers today note that the coming winter rain and winds may add to the deadly mess in Gaza and Southern Israel. The incoming Obama Administration will have a lot to content with when they arrive none too soon in January, but if this war shows anything, it shows that the Israel-Palestinian crisis needs their attention immediately. A high-powered envoy, propped up by public support from President Obama and his Secretary of State needs to be appointed, bring together the U.S., Europe, Russia and the moderate Arab states and knock some heads together for a settlement. It will be none too easy.
Israel is slated for elections in February and it's not clear at the moment who will be in charge-Bibi Netanyahu or perhaps a Barak-Livni coalition; Abu Mazen, the Fatah leader in Ramallah is as weak as can be and the only way for Gaza to be neutralized will be to engage Syria, where Hamas' leader lives in exile, and neutralize Iran, which has been arming and supporting Hamas. Gaza is the ultimate failed state. It has been failed by the Egyptians, by the Israelis and by the Palestinians. But the cycle of violence-Palestinians living in poverty and without hope in Gaza, Israeli innocent civilians being killed by rockets aimed solely at civilians by the Hamas fighters, and Israel's IDF retaliating with force, will continue without a global response.















What a totally vapid post. Notice this idiocy: "Gaza is the ultimate failed state. It has been failed by the Egyptians, by the Israelis and by the Palestinians."
What a crock. Gaza became a failed state because of the Occupation and subsequent Seige. Notice its collapse since 1967.
You Zionists own this evil. Don't try to generalize it.
December 29, 2008 10:41 AM | Reply | Permalink
mythbuster:
This is what, your 872nd comment over the last three days. So Ms. Mort, who is committed to peace and justice and a state for the Palestinians as much as any other contributor on this website, and judging by what I have read from her and from you, at least as much as you are. But she doesn't write from the same perspective as you would command, and you see fit to be rude. TPM provides myriad opportunities for the screamers to scream at one another in the blogs provided by MJ Rosenberg. I know; I too used to scream there. If you don't agree with Ms. Mort that Gazans have been the victims of Ottoman, British, Egyptian, Israeli, and Palestinian failures, why don't you present your reasons with the same decency with which she presents her thesis. Indeed, you might have a point somewhere behind your rudeness, to wit, that Hamas has not been given the opportunity to properly administer Gaza in light of Israeli actions. But perhaps you weren't interested in making a point. You may have the 873rd word, and then might I suggest that you and tnathan get a room.
December 29, 2008 11:03 AM | Reply | Permalink
Responding to racism does not require a decent tone. Someone has to earn my respect. She has not.
December 29, 2008 11:42 AM | Reply | Permalink
myth,
I'm obviously missing something, what about the post is racist?
December 30, 2008 6:11 AM | Reply | Permalink
Gaza is not a failed state. For something to be a failed state it would have to have been a state at one time. But it was never a state. Gaza is 360 square kilometer Israeli (and Egyptian) prison.
Remember that old movie Escape from New York? It seemed like an over-the-top sci fi melodrama that had no actual correlate in reality, right? But that's Gaza.
The difference is that in that movie, most of the people concentrated and fenced into New York were actual criminals. Most of the Gazans have committed no crime but to be born Palestinians in Gaza.
The dynamics of the Israel-Gaza part of the struggle look like classic prison security techniques. Gaza is entirely enclosed by a security barrier. The ways in and the ways out are blocked and guarded. Entrance by individuals in and out, and what people are allowed to bring in and out, are tightly controlled by the jailers. If the prisoners start building tunnels, the tunnels are destroyed by the jailers. From time to time there is a prison revolt, and when the prisoners get too rowdy, the jailers send in troopers to put it down on foot or from the air.
I think we should also resist the usual divide-and-conquer attempts by the Israeli government and its propaganda organs to speak of Gaza and the West Bank as though they are two distinct entities. There is one Palestinian political entity that has been divided into two remaining chunks by a century of Zionism in Palestine.
December 29, 2008 11:13 AM | Reply | Permalink
People should go over to Steve Clemons's Washington Note site. There is some very interesting stuff going on there. He has a guest post from Mustafa Barghouthi, Secretary General of the Palestinian National Initiative. Nir Rosen also came by and left a long comment on the previous post from Steve.
Josh never seems to get around to inviting any Palestinians to participate at TPM Cafe.
December 29, 2008 12:04 PM | Reply | Permalink
I raise your Nir Rosen with this Nir Rosen: http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2008/dec/29/gaza-hamas-israel
December 29, 2008 5:01 PM | Reply | Permalink
I believe it's the same piece.
December 29, 2008 5:28 PM | Reply | Permalink
Jo-ann Mort:
This really was a ridiculously empty post. Are you afraid to actually say anything? Please don't waste our time.
December 29, 2008 12:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
After weeks of blockade that have seen Gaza starve for food, medicine and fuel, it's difficult to see this ending unless Israeli heads are the noggins "knocked together". As long as America is involved, we know that will never happen. Justin Raimondo at Antiwar.com has a good take on the tragedy:
December 29, 2008 12:46 PM | Reply | Permalink
It has already been said -- a "vapid", "ridiculously empty" post. It is blaming the victim, always blaming the victim. As Dove Weisglass said 4 years back that Israel would put the people of Gaza on a diet. He is a very funny man. That diet has resulted in a measurable increase in malnutrition among the Gazans. They are literally being starved. And it is the Israelis that are doing it. So in the face of this obvious fact Jo Ann Mort writes "It has been failed by the Egyptians, by the Israelis and by the Palestinians." This is just as sickening to read as it is to read West Bank settlers demanding the ethnic cleansings of their Arab neighbors.Both sentiments share a similar outcome (if knowingly or not by this witless author) and that is domination by Israel over all Arabs in historic Palestine.
December 29, 2008 3:27 PM | Reply | Permalink
The diet Mr. Weisglass giggled about is causing record high incidents of brain damage in Palestinian children in Gaza.
Memo to Rigtheous Jo-Ann: Notice that malnutrition did not start until the Zionists got involved.
December 29, 2008 4:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
Another post about how the "world" must solve this problem.
Well, as a U.S. citizen the most I'm willing to do to solve it is to cut off aid to both Israel and Egypt and wipe our hands of the whole mess. Good luck to both sides. We have our own problems to worry about.
December 29, 2008 4:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
the most I'm willing to do to solve it is to cut off aid to both Israel and Egypt
That would be plenty!
Let's see how long the F-16s can fly sorties (over Gaza apartment houses...) without spare parts.
Israel--too expensive to keep as a pet; not housebroken.
December 29, 2008 4:34 PM | Reply | Permalink
And write to your congresscritters and let them know as well. I think this is the only thing useful that the US can do -- we are powerless to influence events on the ground.
December 29, 2008 5:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
we are powerless
And that being the case, at least let's not have the bulldozer that runs Rachel Corrie over carry the name "Caterpillar".
Personally, I think that the U.S.Foreign Policy Establishment (caps used advisedly...) has gotten the Israel it paid for in 1948. We are not somehow the innocent victims of the Sons of the Irgun run amok.
Israel is the puppet, there to project American power.
December 29, 2008 7:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
Helena Cobban What does Hamas want?
"Israeli innocent civilians being killed by rockets aimed solely at civilians by the Hamas fighters,"
Daniel Levy has stated that Israeli officials understand that Hamas avoids targeting civilians but that other organizations do not.
Are you lying or just not paying attention?
The death toll as it now stands between 2005 and one week ago was 1400 to 9.
Cycle of violence? What cycle? Hamas won an election. What happened next?
Two states under your definition is a solution fo separation and inequality. And what of the Arabs remaining in your "Jewish State." I suppose they have the right to be second class citizens.
How Israel can claim to be a modern state in any way other than that claimed by the Shah's Iran an Saddam's Iraq is absolutely beyond me.
You people disgust me as much as Jorg Haider and Jean-Marie le Pen. But you have more blood on your hands.
The racist as nebbish
December 29, 2008 4:41 PM | Reply | Permalink
How Israel can claim to be a modern state
Teach it, cuz!
I sense that you may be a potential recruit to the United Semitic Peoples' Kemalist Front.
One Semite, One Vote; One State, No Yahwists.
I have some high prestige low-single digit membership number cards available...right now there's just Noam and me. Benny Morris was a member, but he dropped out.
December 29, 2008 7:31 PM | Reply | Permalink
I still remain unconvinced that Isr
ael had a choice about what to do in this situation, i.e. how to stop the shelling of Israeli civilian population centers to the west and north of Gaza. Most folks on here seem to want to look beyond that issue and make the same, what's the word of the day?, oh yes "vapid" points that they make every day, to wit, that Israel is a monster and the issue of defending its citizenry is immaterial. I respectfully, perhaps, vapidly, disagree, although again I remain to be convinced by serious people about what Israel's real options were in this situation.
On the issue of starvation, I am not defending Israel's blockade, but even though I might be accused of being vapid, it appears that, at least according to the United Nations, the starvation meme is a lie being spread perhaps by some well-meaning folks and perhaps by others for propaganda purposes. UN Program Development Program Khaled Abdel Shaafi is cited thusly on this point:
"Reports that as many as 50 per cent of children are suffering from malnutrition are exaggerations, says Khaled Abdel Shaafi, director [of] the United Nations Development Program.
'This is not a humanitarian crisis,' he said. 'It's an economic crisis, a political crisis, but it's not a humanitarian crisis. People aren't starving."
'That doesn't mean it's pleasant, he said. "It's like a prison: You have shelter and food, but it's not a nice place to live."
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20081212.wgaza12/BNStory/International/home?cid=al_gam_mostemail
I don't justify Israel's conduct in many respects, and I don't condone the blockade to the extent that it has impacted the lives of ordinary Gazans, especially children, but my feelings are not going to be buttressed by lies and propaganda. I can hate the occupation, I can hate the settler movement, and I can hate the prospects for my beloved Israel because of what is going on, but I will continue to challenge propaganda on both sides. And anyone who has read Jo-Ann Mort knows that she is at least as objective on matters pertaining to the Middle East, as anyone, absolutely anyone, on this board.
Some of you are such incredible hypocrites. You extol the virtues of some contributors on here who have written the same blogposts week in and week out, sometimes three times in a single day, and here Jo-Ann Mort, who doesn't stick to certain party lines in this fairly brief post, is attacked as vapid at best, or racist at worst.
I submit this post makes two non-vapid points. First, Gazans have been denied their due by Israelis, Egyptians, and by fellow Palestinians. Second, a strong international intervention is necessary to deal with the I-P conflict, and that means first and foremost by the Obama Administration. Folks might disagree with one or both points, but these points made by Ms. Mort are salient and directly address what is happening now.
You change no hearts, you change no minds, you do, in fact, play parlor games with the lives of people whom you pretend to care so much about, and you pretend to care more than folks like Ms. Mort who may not walk lock step with you. And I'll sign my name to what I write with pride and with conceded and heartfelt distress about what is happening in Gaza right now.
Bruce S. Levine
New York, New York
P.S. Please, there are many serious posters out there, many of whom I disagree with often (are you reading me lally?), who, no pun intended, I read religiously and respect to no end. I do not mean to generalize, but I am miffed by these petty and hypocritical attacks on Jo-Ann Mort. If this were my site, I would ban the person who called her a racist. . .but that's probably why I don't run a website.
December 29, 2008 4:46 PM | Reply | Permalink
Now this is a classic from bslev:
" And anyone who has read Jo-Ann Mort knows that she is at least as objective on matters pertaining to the Middle East, as anyone, absolutely anyone, on this board."
Jo-Ann, objective? Hmm. Look at this chestnut of Jo-Ann objectivity:
"Mazen, the Fatah leader in Ramallah is as weak as can be and the only way for Gaza to be neutralized will be to engage Syria, where Hamas' leader lives in exile, and neutralize Iran, which has been arming and supporting Hamas."
The Iranians are responsible for everything. That's about as objective as a column in the WSJ or the Weekly Standard.
December 29, 2008 4:55 PM | Reply | Permalink
One more thing, Bslev: Your hasbara act has been busted! That phony quote you got from that conservative Toronto newspaper was researched and debunked:
http://1158munich.blogspot.com/2008/12/camera-and-other-zionist-bloggers-get.html
December 29, 2008 5:10 PM | Reply | Permalink
Sorry mythbuster. You cite to a blogger who claims that the quote is false but she bases her claim by citing to the Toronto Star. I took my quote from a different paper, the Globe and Mail. Indeed, the folly in your effort to show that I am a liar is found in a link the blogger you cite to links to as well. In that link, there's a Robin, who like you here, is accusing someone of misquoting Abdel Shafi, and the accuasation is based on the wrong paper, to wit, the Star. Here's the response in the link you provide, which corroborates that you are comparing apples and oranges in your odd attempt to establish that I am a liar (rembember, you're robin which makes me Bruce Wayne I guess):
"'Hello, Robin, and welcome to Snapshots. We have considered your request for a correction and rejected it. You assume that our source for Abdel Shafi's statement about Gaza's economy is a June 2008 article from the Toronto Star.
"It is not. In fact, our source is much more recent -- a Dec. 12, 2008 article in The Globe and Mail entitled "In Gaza, tunnel vision staves off starvation." Reporter Patrick Martin wrote:
"Reports that as many as 50 per cent of children are suffering from malnutrition are exaggerations, says Khaled Abdel Shaafi, director of the United Nations Development Program.
"'This is not a humanitarian crisis,' he said. 'It's an economic crisis, a political crisis, but it's not a humanitarian crisis. People aren't starving.'"
"That doesn't mean it's pleasant, he said. 'It's like a prison: You have shelter and food, but it's not a nice place to live.'"
http://blog.camera.org/archives/2008/12/axis_lauren.html
In short, Mythbuster, I quoted from the Globe and Mail and provided the link. I did not lie or try to deceive, and your comment provides a link which corroborates my veracity and good faith.
What a waste of time.
December 29, 2008 5:56 PM | Reply | Permalink
I had this revolutionary idea--rather than look at what some propagandists cite or rely on what might or might not be an accurate quote in some newspaper, maybe one could try to find UN reports on the food situation in Gaza. Here's a report from last May--
LINK
It appears that over half the people in Gaza were "food insecure"--I haven't read the link in enough detail to know exactly what that means. Presumably things could only have gotten worse since November, when the Israelis tightened their chokehold.
December 29, 2008 6:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
Donald:
Thank you for providing a link to the United Nations report, an original source document, and let me say that I would have no doubt that, since May, the food situation, or the "food insecurity" has worsened for the people of Gaza. I will note, however, that I did not cite to a propagandist, or so I thought; rather I cited to a quotation from a United Nations official, and I referenced the newspaper from which I obtained the quote. I am unfamiliar with Canadian newspapers, but I did assume that a quotation from an official would be based on proper attribution to the individual being quoted. To be perfectly candid, I believed that citing to a UN official about a matter concerning Israel and Palestine was indicated in this instance, because I tend to believe that UN officials have a bias against Israel. That said, perhaps I am mistaken to rely upon a direct quotation from the Toronto Globe and Mail, and of course you are correct that a primary source document is what is referred to in the law as the "best evidence". Of course, the best evidence that has been provided corroborates the point I made and does not indicate, thank G-d, that Palestinians in Gaza are starving, and G-d willing that will not come to pass.
December 29, 2008 7:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
It's okay, Bruce. I haven't paid enough attention to this issue and this argument at least made me do some googling.
December 29, 2008 8:36 PM | Reply | Permalink
food insecure
I just got the chilling suspicion that this was originally a *German phrase from the administrators of the Warsaw Ghetto.
*Kind of like how "Enhanced Interrogation" turned out to be a translation of an entry in the SS manual.
December 29, 2008 7:39 PM | Reply | Permalink
You keep citing Zionist propaganda as if the sheer volumes of this nonsense makes it more convincing.
Laughable.
December 29, 2008 7:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
Bruce you are in denial. It is a psychological condition that comes about when trying to reconcile the irreconcilable. It can lead to cognitive dissonance. You will need to adjust your thinking here. I think your heart is in the right place. But you will need to realize that in fact Israel has deliberately, as policy, reduced rations to the people of Gaza. As a result, the incidence of malnutrition has increased.
BTW, Jo Ann Mort has always written in meaningless cliche's full of feel good words. Nothing really offensive before, but this time she managed to stir up some real feelings. So that is why we are being mean to her today.
December 29, 2008 5:34 PM | Reply | Permalink
For everyone: Here is the quote for Dov Weisglass on the Palestinian "diet":
"It's like an appointment with a dietician. The Palestinians will get a lot thinner, but won't die," the advisor joked, and the participants reportedly rolled with laughter."
And here is the source: http://www.zmag.org/znet/viewArticle/4356
Light unto the nations, my a$$.
December 29, 2008 8:01 PM | Reply | Permalink
Bruce - Thanks you for your support of Jo-Ann. Not every post that someone writes can be full of profound insight but her comments do move the discussion along and are always welcome. I do take issue with your comment that Israel had no choice but to bomb Gaza in response to Hamas rockets. I spent November in Israel and word I was hearing from unofficial sources (I cannot vouch for their accuracy) was Hamas wanted to renew the hudna in return for opening the sea and Egyptian blockade. Barak and Livni supposedly squashed that idea. I believe it would be dangerous to eliminate the blockade but continuing the present course sure seems at least equally dangerous.
December 29, 2008 5:54 PM | Reply | Permalink
Jledell:
I didn't say Israel had no choice; I wrote that I remain unconvinced that it had a choice. That's why I think rational discourse is important. I am willing to be convinced by rational people. . .like you perhaps?
Bruce
December 29, 2008 6:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
I have difficulty in understanding this Jo Ann fan club. It is true that "Not every post that someone writes can be full of profound insight" but what I find remarkable about her writing in general is the complete absence of any original insight.
December 29, 2008 6:34 PM | Reply | Permalink
It's a fair defense of Mort by bslev. Her post is no more or less vapid than many.
But I do get tired of the exhortations for the "world to get involved." How? What would the Israelis listen to? What would the Palestinians listen to?
Why should I care? I'm a non-Arab gentile living on the other side of the world. My country has its owns significant problems right now. Why do we spend so much time talking about Israel/Palestine, and not Darfur? Or Haiti? Or Zimbabwe? Or New Orleans?
I resent the hijacking of my country's national security discourse. If Israel is so darn great, then why can't they sort out their own yard?
December 29, 2008 5:59 PM | Reply | Permalink
bslev,
In-frickin-deed. If Jo Ann was MJ, I am quite sure that syvanen and mythbuster would have had to have reregistered with new screennames by now, davai-style. Keep up the good work, Bruce.
December 30, 2008 9:54 AM | Reply | Permalink
Thank you Bar. I cannot tell you how comforting it is to have your support and understanding. I mean that sincerely Bar; your presence on here more than anything sustains me to engage on matters pertaining to Israel and Palestine. I know you crave peace and justice as much as I do, and as much as most people on this website , in Israel, and in Gaza do as well. I don't know the answers to so many questions, but I do thank G-d that I haven't gotten to the point in life where I base my views on some heinous presumption that I care more about Palestinian and Israeli children than those with whom I have disagreement.
Happy New Year Bar, and I know you'll forgive me for being secular (;)), and so permit me to hope that folks like you and me can convince PE Obama to roll up his sleeves and engage in a tough and even-handed and ongoing effort to once and for all bring justice and peace to Israel and Palestine.
Shalom/Saalam.
Bruce
December 30, 2008 10:33 AM | Reply | Permalink
P.S. Poor davai/tnathan. My hunch is that he has been banned once again. Interesting standards; I guess I would look for a little more even-handedness, but hey, I'm just a mook. :)
December 30, 2008 10:38 AM | Reply | Permalink
bslev,
"Forgive"? Nu, I encourage it.
December 30, 2008 1:47 PM | Reply | Permalink
The second paragraph above is mine. Sorry about the sloppy htmlwork.
December 30, 2008 1:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
Here's a vapid snapshot of bounteous Gaza life, from a John Pilger article in the New Statesman last year:
December 29, 2008 5:32 PM | Reply | Permalink
And what really disturbed me about the post was that Ms. Mort was trying to suggest something without really coming out and saying it:
"But the cycle of violence-Palestinians living in poverty and without hope in Gaza, Israeli innocent civilians being killed by rockets aimed solely at civilians by the Hamas fighters, and Israel's IDF retaliating with force, will continue without a global response."
You see, Hamas was aiming at innocent Israeli civilians, while the IDF was retaliating with force.
December 29, 2008 5:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
It is because she writes in cliche's and those are the accepted sentences for describing the Israeli Arab war.
December 29, 2008 7:13 PM | Reply | Permalink
And the real atrocity:
"Israeli innocent civilians being killed by rockets aimed solely at civilians by the Hamas fighters, and Israel's IDF retaliating with force...."
So have 350 Israelis been killed by rocket fire in the last few days? I guess I missed that news story.
Even when the Zionistas are butchering Palestinians in their hundreds, it's still all about the Israelis all the time.
December 29, 2008 8:08 PM | Reply | Permalink
mythbuster,
Wouldn't they just as dead if it were a year ago? Seriously, mythbuster, I find absolutely nobody here cheering on the deaths of innocent Palestinians. Can your sick little mind handle anything more complicated than morbid scorekeeping?
December 30, 2008 10:00 AM | Reply | Permalink
No, it can't. I don't forgive people who murder Palestinian children.
December 30, 2008 3:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
The killing of innocent children is hard to accept, of course.
Such children are being killed on all sides.
Hamas makes their lives more dangerous by putting its military installations, like rocket launchers, close to children in residential areas. Does Hamas bear any responsibility for the inevitable fall out?
December 30, 2008 9:14 PM | Reply | Permalink
I thought the post made some sense, and certainly didn't deserve the caustic comments by some.
Those who point to the casualty ratio--if the ratio was reversed, would you say that Hamas was at fault? Is that the standard?
There is no question that Hamas sends rockets to civilian areas, with the intent of terrorizing and killing civilians in Israel.
Israel has made some effort to aim at strategic targets, and many/most of the casualties have been what is called a "militant."
The EU classifies Hamas as a terrorist organization. Does that have any meaning to Israel's detractors?
I agree with the comment about the disproportionate amount of attention given to this compared to Darfur, Haiti, the Congo, etc.
How about the oppression of Arabs in Arab countries? Is it only when Jews are involved that some care?
December 29, 2008 11:02 PM | Reply | Permalink
dcsmithie,
Only to prove how far those "evil Zionist tentacles" can reach.
December 30, 2008 3:11 PM | Reply | Permalink
Well at least you didn't blame the Palestinians for Darfur. However, I have been told that Hamas was responsible for the Holocaust.
December 30, 2008 9:31 AM | Reply | Permalink
I don't blame Hamas for Darfur or the Holocaust.
But what about my point that there is a disproportionate amount of attention paid to this situation compared to Darfur, the Congo, etc., and compared to Arab oppression of Arabs. Plenty of US aid, in various forms, is going to repressive Arab regimes. Do any of those who so harshly vilify Israel, and hold it to a separate standard, care about that?
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying ignore whatever you think Israel is doing wrong, but if it's only Israel you criticize, then you have to wonder why.
December 31, 2008 1:55 AM | Reply | Permalink
If the US was bankrolling the killings in Darfur and the Congo there would be much comment. I am concerned about Israel right now because those F16's and the smart bombs being inflicted on Gaza are paid with my tax dollars. That makes us a party to this war. If we were truly neutral, I probably would not be commenting here.
December 31, 2008 2:19 PM | Reply | Permalink
"If"?
Sudan Tribune
December 31, 2008 7:19 PM | Reply | Permalink