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Wonderful Life

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Look, I don't really care whether Caroline Kennedy becomes the junior senator from New York, but I do care about what I read, even from six thousand miles away; and there are some pretty fatuous things being written in the name of protecting the commonwealth from plutocracy. As if achievement, merit, and judgment are proved by degrees, promotions, and apprenticeships--that to be born privileged is to live above life.

Caroline Kennedy faced the world-historical murder of her father, relentless media scrutiny ever since, the strange marriage (and subsequent divorce) of her extraordinary mother, who then was wasted by cancer in her sixties; the murder of the uncle who protected her family; and perhaps the cruelest blow of all, the death in a plane crash of her baby brother. Through it all, she has managed to keep her sanity and exhibit dignity--make a marriage, mother her children, achieve professional standing, write serious books, and take on an important role in a presidential campaign. The comparison, as some suggest, to Sarah Palin is silly. The real comparison should be to John McCain, who was born to privilege, but also expected voters to see, reasonably, that mettle is tested at least in part by a person's way of overcoming unimaginable suffering.


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A good point but I think you would agree that many are skeptical of nepotism becoming a regular make up of our congress. Of course to a certain degree this has already been the case with many members of our government coming from backgrounds such as these in the case of Rockefeller, Kennedy, McCain, Bush, etc.

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A lot of people have suffered childhood tragedies, raised families, kept their sanity and have written good and thoughtful books. Many of them have done so without the benefits of the Kennedy wealth or the opportunities and contacts that you get by being accidentally born to a rich politically connected family.

You're right, the comparison to Sarah Palin is unfair. Palin at least ran for office and let the people judge her qualifications. Caroline Kennedy wants to be appointed Senator. Her public "I'm interested," is the answer to a question that nobody asked. Hopefully Paterson realizes that and will appoint a proper caretaker to the seat. If Caroline Kennedy wants to be a Senator she can run for the seat in 2010 (and she should run as a newcomer, not as the appointed incumbent).

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Well, New Yorkers can ask their governor to do whatever they want. It's not my state.

Part of your case seems strange to me. I wouldn't have thought it was so controversial that degrees, promotions and apprenticeships, and a variety of other career experiences and achievements, actually are a reasonable, if imperfect, predictor of merit and capacity. Being born to privilege is not any sort of disqualification or hindrance from building up such a resume, and many privileged people do go on to achieve such a resume through their own merit. But the resume is what counts, isn't it? How else can you tell if someone can do the job?

Maintaining sanity and dignity through a succession of horrible family deaths and unpleasant reversals and scandals is, while certainly meritorious, something that millions of other Americans have experienced. And yet, for most of these people it would be generally accepted that those experiences do not in themselves outfit them with the particular skills and knowledge base needed to be an effective federal legislator. Nothing in Kennedy's record says to me, "Wow, here's a person who really knows how our system works, and knows how to move the levers of power and influence and get things done."

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There was a weird thing that Bernard Avishai did in like his first TPMCafe post. It irked me at the time, probably all out of proportion to the sin. But he was describing, I think his daughter-in-law who is related to the founding family behind Siemen's and he threw that pedigree into the description as being born to rich and famous people was some sort of qualification.

Now this -- not a defense of Kennedy's qualifications or an argument about why she'd be a good senator but a defense of nepotism. It's as if he believes that the rich are better than everyone else, especially if they inherit.

Bring on Senator Paris Hilton!

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I always find that any arguments in support of the necessity of our political leaders possessing some minimum modicum of "experience" and "expertise" to be a bit of a sop to college grads still paying off Sallie Mae 20 years after the fact. Every pol has got an army of clerks on the payroll who ARE smart and hard working. I don't want to say that Senator is merely some sort of meaningless honorific, but come on. A million people in the country are qualified to be a senator from new york. and if ANYONE has "power and influence to get things done," it's a freaking Kennedy. Like a bright eyed kid with dreams of conquering the universe, we need to all learn that *there will always be someone better.* And learn to work with what we have instead of spend years (literally or metaphorically) striving for that impossible perfection. There's a lot of potential to waste the power we have infighting instead of outfighting.

And, although I suppose I am worried as anyone else about political legacies...the fact is, even if someone came from nowhere, Alaska, as soon as she gets into office, she's got an honorary ticket to the plutocracy.

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Comparing Caroline Kennedy to John McCain is a bit like comparing Britney Spears to Barack Obama. Sure, there's a superficial similarity in the stories, but it obscures the significant differences.

John McCain's "unimaginable suffering" was in the service of his country, at the hands of communists. Caroline Kennedy's was in the service of her political career, at the hands of paparazzi.

That said, I agree with your point: that her family background, and privileged upbringing, are if anything an advantage to an incoming senator.

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OK, I'll open the can of worms.

Why the overt hostility to Carline Kennedy? Yes, she has not sought political office before. She is also a bright, capable, serious and publicly-spirited possible Senator. Will those of you who are denouncing her (seemingly for her name and heritage alone) at least have the courage to admit that there are many, many possible choices, even among NY Dems, that could be worse selections for Gov. Patterson to make?

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Nobody's denouncing Caroline Kennedy, though I do think she's acted with an inappropriate sense of entitlement.

Yes, he could do worse. But that's not the point. Absent her wealth and family connections she wouldn't even be up for this appointment.

If she wants to be Senator let her wait until 2010. She can run a campaign and make her case like an ordinary mortal.

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Bernard Avishai said:

Caroline Kennedy deserves, if nothing else, to be treated with abiding respect for how she's conducted herself, and not be dismissed as someone with an over-reaching sense of entitlement; that was said about Bobby, too, when he ran against Senator Keating.

And I think he was looking at you...

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Well excuse me for not wanting a socialite be coronated Senator.

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It's not that you don't want her as Senator, it's the way you are expressing it. Can you really not see that? And do you have nothing better to offer?

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Oh Old Grouch... let's not let a debate over tone obscure the real issue here -- we have a senate seat that's about to be handed out like a gift to some one because of her last name and money. If I'm being impolite it's because the situation is so obscene. While I'm being chastised for being rude and unelected governor is playing queenmaker. Delightful.

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You got a better suggestion? I'm still waiting...

And isn't it funny that the people who say "Let's not talk about tone." are usually the ones who take the most overtly hostile tone?

Face it, you have added nothing to this discussion, other than an ill-founded complaint.

Just for a comparison, let's see your record of public-spirited and academic involvement. Then maybe I'll leave your comments unchallenged.

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Oldie, I like you. Always have. Keep challenging me.

But my complaint is still entirely valid. Another alternative? Hell. Me. I'm a New York Democrat and unlike Caroline Kennedy, I work a full time job.

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Often to be appointed to a position is an honor. We don't elected Supreme Court justices. Obama is currently appointing many people. No one's complaining about that!

Public service involves many things. Not just elected office.

This whole thing is a red herring!

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Obama's doing a great job appointing qualified people to the right posts. Hopefully Paterson will follow that example. To do so, he'll have to find some one better than Kennedy.

Indeed, if Paterson, himself unelected, really wants to do the right thing, he'll appoint a well qualified caretaker who will promise not to run for office in 2010.

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I suspect it was never entitlement on her part. That does not fit with her personality. I'm pretty sure many people suggested she consider this, including Obama. She had to say one way or the other if she was interested - since her name was out there.

I personally think she's got the character and background to be a great Senator.

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I have no desire to disparage Caroline Kennedy, but I can't see why she should be entitled to a Senate seat... all of this is what the British call "wet".

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This was meant to make a modest point, which is that a part of what we look for in leaders, officials, etc., is the capacity to see life plain, in all of its tragic dimensions, and the go forward with humility and a feel for the commonwealth. If one is well-educated (not well-born, destor 23, well-educated) one can learn the finer points of a public policy debate in a few weeks. But learning how to care with a broken heart takes years; and don't tell me that a part of what we've sensed in Obama from his memoir, and McCain, too, now that the election is over, is not this very ability to make the most of things. Of course, many other Americans--all, actually--have suffered greatly, or will. So let's look for the Emerson in our candidates, not just the Stephanopoulos.

Caroline Kennedy deserves, if nothing else, to be treated with abiding respect for how she's conducted herself, and not be dismissed as someone with an over-reaching sense of entitlement; that was said about Bobby, too, when he ran against Senator Keating. Anyway, it is late in Jerusalem, and I'm going to bed.

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It is a disgrace to credit the suffering of the famous as greater than that of ordinary folks. I admire Caroline Kennedy, but she is not the only person who has had a series of family tragedies over 40 years. If surviving family tragedies is the test for serving in the Senate, I can find you a dozen candidates who, but for name recognition and piles of money, are equally or better qualified.

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I think Thera P mentioned this...

I don't think CAROLINE has acted with a sense of entitlement.

As far as I can see, her name was put forward...and she said, yes, she should would be interested. Fair enough.

Cuomo, I guess, has expressed interest in the spot, and he would be good, too.

As far as "qualifications" go, it seems to me that "unqualified" people run for Congress all the time and win. They persuade enough voters, they get to serve. Period. Everything they actually have to know about the job, they learn on the job.

(Ron Paul was a doctor, I believe. Corzine an investment banker. Tester was a farmer, yes? And on and on.)

So, in this case, Caroline and anyone else doesn't have the opportunity to run. So that vetting process is out. But if she wants to stay past two years, she will have to run, and she will be judged on how well she's done for NY. End of story.

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There's no "end of story" to that. Paterson should face up to the fact that he's an unelected governor. He should only appoint a caretaker to the seat, some one who will sign a pledge not to run in 2010. Then, if Caroline Kennedy really wants to be senator she'll have time to raise money and run for the spot. What she shouldn't get is an annointed incumbent advantage.

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That's silly. Why require the "caretaker" NOT to run, thus preventing him or her from ever becoming a duly elected senator, even if he or she does a brilliant job in the next two years?

I'm with Thera P on this.

And I suspect all the emotion on this point is fallout from the Bush disaster. Just remember: Bush got elected at least once. So the electorate is hardly an infallible (or even very good) judge of who will be the best person for the job.

I'm NOT suggesting we do away with elections, but it's worth being a bit humble on this point. We aren't an Athenian democracy because the founders were wary of "pure democracy." Sometimes, you can get too much of a good thing.

Caroline would have an incumbent advantage--plus a big name and perhaps a money advantage--but it's not an overwhelming advantage IF she does a bad or mediocre job. Then folks will remember she was placed in this position by an unelected governor and will turn her out.

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I admire the Kennedy's for all the liberal causes they backed over the years.

With that said, I don't support Caroline for the appointment. There are some good Democrats in the House that I'd prefer, not necessarily in this order; like Jerry Nadler, Nita Lowey, Carolyn Maloney. Maybe Louise Slaughter from the Buffalo area.

These people all ran in elections and won and whoever gets the appointment needs to run again.
Louise Slaughter might be best chance to hold onto the seat as she represents upstate NY.

So far we're losing at least 4 who were elected to Senate seats; Obama, Biden, Hillary, Salazar, and trading them for 4 appointed seats who must run for the seat eventually.

Many in NY State may see Caroline's appointment as
unjustified for some reason or other and many are alerady speaking out against it for various reasons. Can we expect these peoople to vote for her when she has to run?

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I forgot to mention this:


I'm sorry to say that much of what I hear about Caroline from many Democrats is how much money she would be able to raise.

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Sarah Palin is more qualified to be NY Senator than Caroline Kennedy (putting aside the obvious residency requirements).

I can't believe I actually agree with JohnW1141 but the only reason Caroline is being considered is because of her fund raising abilities.

She has zero experience and has skipped out on voting in more than one recent election

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What makes Sarah Palin more qualified than Caroline? It took her several years to obtain an undergraduate degree. "Palin attended Hawaii Pacific College in Hilo, Hawaii, in 1982 for a semester, where she majored in Business Administration, and transferred in 1983 to North Idaho College for the 1983-1984 school year. After winning a scholarship, she transferred to Matanuska-Susitna College in Alaska for one term before transferring back to the University of Idaho the following year where she finished out her college education and received a Bachelor of Science degree in communications-journalism from the University of Idaho in 1987, where she also minored in political science". Now look at Caroline's educational background and the need not to do the huggie, kissie thing to get what she wants. Even John McCain is not sure that he would endorse Palin if she should run again. She uses her sex appeal instead of her intellect and we saw where that got her, right?

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Palin has executive experience, Kennedy does not

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You may wish to check the Constitution first which is the guiding document for which our government specifically spells out the requirements to be a senator.

Individuals must be:

* at least 30 years old.

* a U.S. citizen for at least nine years at the time of election to the Senate.

* a resident of the state one is elected to represent in the Senate.

These are the only requirements for the office that are specified in Article I, Section 3 of the Constitution.

Iam not a New Yorker but Caroline is qualified to become a senator. She is an attorney, a great fund raiser, an author of several scholarly books on privacy as well as best-seller anthologies, and a force in improving the New York school system during Michael Bloomberg's mayoralty. If she is appointed she would need her great fund raising skills for the 2010 election.
She has been the guiding force behind the John F. Kennedy Presidential Library.

As writer Albert Hunt wrote "All things equal, it's better for politicians to pay their dues. Many don't. In New York, Hillary Clinton and Michael Bloomberg started at the top. The fabled Daniel Patrick Moynihan was uninvolved in electoral politics until winning a Senate seat in 1976, aside from an ill-fated campaign for city council president". So why not Caroline, I think she would be great!

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The Senate is an intellectual ghetto populated by overrated underachievers. Caroline should fit right in.

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Caroline hasn't done anything but raise money.

Smoothie - I said she wasn't qualified. That's not the same thing as not meeting the requirements. But thanks for reciting the Constitution to me

I'm sure alot of people here said that Sarah Palin wasn't qualified to be VP.

Thank God you're not a New Yorker and I am

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Everyone gut check their reasons why they do or don't want Caroline to get the appointment.

Some of you exhibit personal spite and social resentment, including reverse classism.

Some of you seem not to question the whole "royal" problem of our government especially the Senate, which is a major source of negative status quo-ism.

Some of you try to play it safe down the middle, which means to me that you don't care that much either way, which ain't a bad way to go, discretion still being the better part of valor (or moral cowardice sometimes).

The conventional wisdom is that Caesar's wife must be beyond suspicion. In this case, Caesar's daughter, Caroline, must also be beyond suspicion of royalism. Therefore, despite my earnest wish that she get the position right away, I fervently wish instead that she'd reject the appointment and begin establishing her cred now for 2010.

I think she has what it takes personally to be a great force for political good in this country. I'm talking about her character, intelligence, and political wherewithal. Asking her to earn it through election in the first place is not too much to ask.

If she does so, she will begin to vindicate the faith of those who think she is ready now. If she accepts an appointment now, she only gives credence to her skeptics, and deservedly so.

So, run, Caroline, run, in 2010. Now, roll up your sleeves and sling some mud like the rest of your peerage! And the cred you earn by rejecting the appointment now and earning the position in 2010 may be the only thing standing between Palin and the presidency in 2012 or 2016 (God save us all).

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