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How Should Non-Depression Economics Be Changed?

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Brad's definition of non-depression economics gives us a set of policy beliefs that "is no longer sufficient doctrine for our age," but he doesn't tell us why it is no longer sufficient, or what the new doctrine should be.

One reason the doctrine is no longer sufficient is that it has not been able to prevent the development of large asset price bubbles. And worse, as we are seeing right now, monetary policy cannot necessarily clean up the problems that occur when asset bubbles pop. The question, then, is how the doctrine can be updated so that it does a better job of preventing asset bubbles from developing.

In the past, the Fed has taken an approach to asset price bubbles that is part of what Brad calls Greenspanism. Under Greenspanism, the Fed does not try to prevent asset bubbles from forming, the argument is that it is too hard to identify bubbles as they are developing and you are more likely to make a mistake and stifle important technological innovation than you are to deflate an asset bubble. So the best thing to do is to take a hands off approach, and then, should a bubble occur (which would be a rare event since markets ought to be robust to bubbles), clean up the mess after the bubble pops.

But this hasn't worked out so well as both the dot.com and housing bubbles demonstrate. What is the solution? One answer is use automatic stabilizers. We have automatic stabilizers embedded in aspects of both monetary policy and fiscal policy (though I'd argue the fiscal policy stabilizers could stand strengthening), and they can be extended to cover asset prices as well.

In normal times, when the economy is not in a tailspin, the Fed follows a fairly simple rule in its attempt to automatically stabilize the economy. When inflation goes up, the Fed raises the federal funds rate to slow the economy, and when inflation goes down, it does the opposite and lowers the federal funds rate. There is a similar procedure for output. An increase in output brings about an increase in the federal funds rate, and a decrease in output causes a decrease in the rate. In addition, the response to a change in the inflation rate is more aggressive than the response to a change in output. This is not a hard and fast rule, but rules of this type (which are known as Taylor rules) do a pretty good job of predicting the Fed's rate decisions.

But as noted already, this rule has not prevented asset price bubbles and the Fed has talked about taking a more proactive approach. One way to do this, and to avoid the tendency of policymakers to take a "wait and see" approach and then end up waiting too long, is to announce and credibly commit to a rule that dampens movements in asset prices.

Thus, the Fed needs a rule like it uses to guide its decisions about the federal funds rate, a rule that compels the Fed to respond to asset prices early enough and forcefully enough to prevent catastrophic bubbles from developing. For example, the Fed could add an asset price index to the rule for the federal funds rate so the federal funds rate responds to asset prices in addition to responding to inflation and output. But that is not the only approach, the point is to create an automatic procedure that can be followed (and used as cover against criticism) so that we don't wait too long to step in when asset prices begin to escalate.

In recent decades, the federal budget deficit has generally been in deficit. One reason we have trouble balancing the federal budget is that while we are pretty good at running budget deficits in the bad times, when times are good we are not so good at running surpluses. When the economy is booming and it's time to pay back what we've borrowed by running surpluses, we hear loud protests about how raising taxes or cutting spending will dampen the boom. The right answer from an economic perspective is yes, that's correct, it's supposed to dampen the boom, that's what stabilization policy is all about, but that answer does not play well in the political arena and so we find ourselves unable to make the hard choice to pay the bills that are due.

Attempts to dampen asset price booms to avoid destabilizing price bubbles will bring the same same loud protests - lots of people will be making lots of money and they won't want the Fed to intervene - and that is why committing to a preset rule involving asset prices is useful. But to put a rule in place and maintain a commitment to it, the rule must have support. And that support
depends upon our learning to do something we have trouble doing, tempering the bubble inducing euphoria that comes with the good times so that we can avoid the bad times that come when the bubble suddenly comes to an end.


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Good Morning Mark

You say above "One answer is use automatic stabilizers."

This begs the question.

Capitalist economies need stabilization because they are unstable. Not because we have the wrong sets of rules or incorrect levels of budget deficit/surplus.

Depression Economics recognizes the fundamental and inherent instability of the political economy. Tight controls on the banking sector are important. Gotta keep the bezzle to a minimum.

But, as soon as regulations are in place the financial interests immediately start figuring out ways to get around them.

Keynes: "euthanasia of the rentier class."

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I'd like to strongly endorse this question. Why did Keynes think that the "euthanasia of the rentier class" was desirable and likely to happen in the future, when in fact rentiers and rentier-seekers have become a more prominent part of our economy, not a less prominent part? (I define rentiers and rentier-seekers as executives & investors who have a mindset, "make my pile & retire early", instead of a mindset "build & be a part of a great organization that does great things")

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Using the federal funds rate to deflate asset bubbles is like bringing a thermonuclear weapon to a knife fight. Unemployment following the official end of the 2001 recession peaked in 2003. Raising rates sooner and more aggressively to deflate the housing bubble seems more likely to have simply further dampened the growth in hourly earnings for large groups of workers.

Would it not be more appropriate to attack asset bubbles with tools aimed directly at those particular markets? For instance Dean Baker has revived the idea of stock transfer tax (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/14/magazine/14Ideas-section4-t-005.html).

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Would it not be more appropriate to attack asset bubbles with tools aimed directly at those particular markets?

This is a great start. No money down mortgages(!) were a big driver of the housing bubble. Where were the regulators and government sponsored enterprises (Fred and Fan)? In fact, they were promoting this irresponsible practice.

The political problem with targeting tools to the mechanisms that fueled the bubble, is that the pols that benefited will point elsewhere. Have Franks orDodd owned up to any responsibility for the practices they promoted? Don't hold your breath.

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The real problem with the financial/hosing bubble was everyone involved - consumer, banker, real estate broker and so forth - all had delusions the price of property had no ceiling; the sky's the limit. That's why everyone mentioned above was so eager to get involved - there was money to be made because there wasn't a conceivable possibility of a real estate market crash.

Sad fact, there are always limits.

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You are absolutely right about everyone involved. However, it is important to note the regulatory actions that enabled and in some cases promoted bad behavior.

The Fed provided cheap money. Fred and Fan securitized no money down and other high very risk mortgages. Once you spill the gas and light the match you should not be shocked the fire spreads.

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Novel research shows that experienced investors under novel investment scenarios (think: derivatives) are not immune from bubbles.

Is novelty (for all its advantages) part of the culprit here?

So, I still wonder whether the equilibrium here isn't federal regulators as "crazy person" who might drastically tighten leverage requirements at any moment, perhaps only for the specific novel asset class.

Then to avoid the risk of falling prey to the "crazy person" you only do things that will make you money long term; i.e., value the asset properly.

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John F. Kennedy convinced the United Steel Workers union to accept a modest wage agreement.
Whereupon, US Steel then announced a large price increase.
Kennedy called-out the president of US Steel and said the price increase was, in effect, unpatriotic.
US Steel rescinded the price increase.
Microeconomic policy via the bully pulpit.

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How did it work out? US Steel and the United Steel Workers are mere shadows of what they once were.

A one day favorable press story is nit enough to keep an industry vital.

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A sage once said that a classic is a book that every one cites but no one reads. Keynes's General Theory is a classic for both Delong and Krugman for they clearly have either never read or never understood Keynes's theory of an entrepreneuial economy -- an economy that possess liquid financial markets (hence Keynes's liquidity preference theory) and therefore is potentially very unstable.

What passes for Keynesian Economics among the elite professionals such as Brad DeLong and Paul Krugman is Samuelson's and Hicks' 1930s interpretation of Keynes. But as I point out in my book JOHN MAYNARD KEYNES (Great Thinkers in Economics Series) Palgrave, 2007)-- on page 181 I note that Samuelson states that when he read The General Theory as a graduate sudent in the 1930s he found the book "unpalatable" and not comprehensible. Samuelson then states "The way I finally convinced myself was to just stop worrying about it [about Keynes's analytical framework]. I asked myself: why do I refuse a paradigm that enables me to understand the Roosevelt understanding from 1933 to 1937? I was content to assume that there was enough rigidity in relative prices and wages to make the Keynesian alternative to Walras operative".

But if Samuelson had ever read Chapter 19 in THE GENERAL THEORY etitled "Changes in Money Wages" he wold see that Keynes specified that the "supposedly self adjusting charcter of the economic system rests on an assumed fluidity of money wages; and when thereis a rigidity, to lay on thisrigidity the blame for maladjustment....My difference from this theory is primarily a difference of analysis".

Morover, in the 1937 EJ, in response to Tarshis and Dunlo, Keynes specifically notes that his analysis demonstrates that as a theoretical matter, even with perfectly flexible wages and prices an entrepreneurial economy will not automatically assure full employment.

Furthermore on pp.185-187 I demonstrate how I convinced Hicks to ultimately reject the ISLM system for it was not a correct interpretation of Keynes and declare his support (in writing) for my interpretation of Keynes's analytical framework.


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All an automatic mechanism will do is to move bubbles somewhere else. There will always be some sector or some instrument that's not covered by the measurements that feed into the automatic stabilizer (or that's covered in the wrong way, with the wrong coefficient). And if there's not, some bright kid in the back room will invent one, because markets as presently constituted want to have bubbles. They're extremely profitable for the people who run markets, at least for the short-to-medium term. And that's long enough for careers to be made and yachts to be bought.

One thing that might be useful would be some kind of mandatory escrow for bonuses and options -- 5 or 10 years to see how things shake out. Sure, there would be lots of complains about how that would dilute the incentives for people to do great deals, but that's the point.

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I think this is a big problem. Essentially people who create bubbles and then sell off enough stock options to be rich, before everything bursts, are participating in a Ponzi scheme.

And even if they're not being malicious, the incentives need to be there to prevent this sort of "Ponzi scheme finance."

Brad Delong suggested restricted stock in another context. I think something like that, or the mandatory escrow idea you suggest, would make a lot of sense.

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Bubbles are a sign of a governance failure. Regulation is just one of the tools of governance.

The reason we have governance failure is because we have a failure of democracy. The people's needs are subsumed to some special interest group. This group wields enough political and economic power that it can pursue its own aims with impunity.

In the case of the US the broken democracy is caused by the need for huge amounts of money needed to win elective office. If we are going to have a more responsive government the most important step is to get the money out of politics.

Since the wealthy like the influence they currently wield getting this accomplished is an extremely difficult task. Notice that Obama didn't follow his own promises anymore than has any other politician.

There is no guarantee that a representative government will be free of fads and delusions, but at least it will be brought on by the people themselves and not some tiny group of plutocrats.

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How 'bout we terminated the FOMC?

If banks (and other borrowers) want money they go out into the private market and get it from savers -- and pay the rate necessary to induce the savers to part with their savings.

Note: the FRB continues in its role of "lender of last resort" (J.P.Morgan locking his library door in the wee hours of November 3, 1907).

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First: take economics away from economists. There are a few good ones but on average economists are too beholden to dogmatic idiocy and group-think.

Second: "it's the unemployment, stupid!"

(From IRA STEWARD ON CONSUMPTION AND UNEMPLOYMENT by Dorothy W. Douglas, 1932)

Now machinery is only a blessing "provided the wealth more rapidly produced is consumed as fast as days' works are destroyed ... but if this blessing is to continue to bless, wages must continue to rise. If wages stop rising, machinery stops blessing." Ultimately "production gains upon consumption." That is the underlying fact. "Wealth is more rapidly produced than consumed in the leading nations … This fact combined with the poverty and misery of the rest of mankind [outside the charmed circle] is the mainspring of enforced idleness [within it]. And enforced idleness is the real secret of the financial convulsions and bankruptcy which from time to time sweep over the most prosperous countries of the civilized world." The capitalists are unmindful of the first danger signals, the beginnings of a redundant labor supply. Tacitly they assume that a little surplus labor is good for business. "They do not want the number of unemployed so large as to occasion inconvenience or the scandal of starvation, but they are quite alike in the unexpressed wish that the number of unemployed shall be so large that those employed shall have as little power as possible to dictate the terms of their employment." This is especially their attitude at a time when wages are rising and business is still brisk.

But "when the first laborer is discharged, he stops buying." And from then on his powers for evil multiply indefinitely. Then begins "the deadly but natural competition existing between those who are employed and those who are not." "An unemployed man is the most deadly fact that exists outside of a graveyard. He is the source of all that is bad ... . Without raising his hand, he takes far more bread from others than he himself can eat .... more clothes than he can ever wear .... more opportunities than he alone could improve."

He makes his fellows, who are still at work, willing to work for longer hours ("... the deadly competition between those who have nothing to do and those who do too much for fear of doing nothing") as well as lower wages ("Discharges must occur first, before wages can fall to any appreciable or serious extent"); and besides, he makes them afraid to spend what little they have. "The most cautious and calculating laborers, who are not themselves discharged, are sufficiently alarmed by the first few discharges that occur about them to wait before buying ... Meanwhile the individual employer is helpless to stem the tide. "The capitalist is forced to discharge today, for the blunders of his class five or ten years ago.'"

Third: "It's the unemployment, stupid!" (see #2 above). The sentence, "tacitly they assume that a little surplus labor is good for business" could sum up the attitude of economists enraptured over the past three decades by the NAIRU dogma.

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In support of Sandwichman, you'll note that whenever wages go up significantly, the Fed issues an inflation warning and makes noises about raising interest rates. When corporate profits go up, no such warning.

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So which bubble do you want to target? How would you create a bubble index? Someone other than the fed needs to worry about stock bubbles. Some one else the housing bubble in California. Someone else to non-bubble in Utah. Mark, have you simulated this and what is your history about warning of bubbles? Maybe we should have a bubble panel with people like Mark, Shiller, Krugman, Bernanke, someone from S&P, etc. (Those names except Shiller just came without much thought.) They could at least warn the public. Or maybe NBER should weigh in of bubbles but not call them 9 months after they burst. If markets were rational we would not have big bubbles and maybe some rational guidance from non-market participants could add rationality without a direct link to the funds rate. We need some way to keep them off the bubbly!

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One reason the doctrine is no longer sufficient is that it has not been able to prevent the development of large asset price bubbles.

When you have so much of GDP growth going to the top, you will never be able to prevent the development of all kinds of unpredictable bubbles and schemes.

The economy is unbalanced because the wealthy have Hoovered up GDP growth at an ever-increasing pace for the past 30 years. When you give everything to Wall Street, you're doing three things: first, you're making returns lower because the cost of capital is nothing. Second, you're creating a situation where more capital needs more outlets for investment, while you're decreasing the number of rational investments because you're destabilizing the work force. Third, you're creating a magic spigot where more capital inevitably flows into the system, so successful investment schemes become increasingly leveraged as they maximize that feature. There are many examples of this, but perhaps the most glaring is Madoff's Ponzi scheme, which generated great returns by betting everything on the "new money always comes in" argument.

So, we ended up with an economy where all kinds of people who should have known better were making ludicrously leveraged bets on whether or not the middle class that had seen 30 years of wage stagnation was going to be able to pay off the mortgages they couldn't afford.

Yes we need more regulation, but that's the symptom, not the disease. For 3 decades, we've convinced ourselves what's good for Wall Street is good for America. That's not true.

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Maybe there is a cyclical swing between the predatory and the more "responsible". In other words the setting for a more modest profit-taking on any side may depend on factors beyond the purview of economics.

So thought Veblen?

The following is drawn from The Instinct of Workmanship and the Irksomeness of Labor
by Thorstein Veblen American Journal of Sociology
volume 4 (1898-99)

"The history of mankind, as conventionally written, has been a narrative of predatory
exploits, and this history is not commonly felt to be one-sided or misinformed. And a sportsmanlike inclination to warfare is
also to be found in nearly all modern communities. Similarly, the sense of honor, so-called, whether it is individual or national
honor, is also an expression of sportsmanship. The prevalence of notions of honor may, therefore, be taken as evidence going in
the same direction. And as if to further fortify the claim of sportsmanship to antiquity and prescriptive standing, the sense of honor is also noticeably more vivid in communities of a
somewhat more archaic culture than our own.

"Yet there is a considerable body of evidence, both from cultural history and from the present-day phenomena of human life, which traverses this conventionally accepted view that
makes man generically a sportsman. Obscurely but persistently, throughout the history of human culture, the great body of the people have almost everywhere, in their everyday life, been at
work to turn things to human use. The proximate aim of all industrial improvement has been the better performance of some workmanlike task. Necessarily this work has, on the one hand,
proceeded on the basis of an appreciative interest in the work to be done; for there is no other ground on which to obtain anything
better than the aimless performance of a task. And necessarily also, on the other hand, the discipline of work has acted to develop a workmanlike attitude. It will not do to say that the work accomplished is entirely due to compulsion under a predatory regime, for the most striking advances in this respect have been
wrought where the coercive force of a sportsmanlike exploitation has been least."


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I think we need to think more broadly about bubbles. After all they have been rather rare events in history, tulips, the Credit Mobilier, U. S. housing in the 2000's. If you think about it we have a small shock to the system that has enormous effects. The propagation mechanism turns a small shock into a massive storm. The numbers I have seen have foreclosures rising from about 1 percent of all mortgages to 2.5% true it more than doubled but still in terms of scale it seems very small. On the other hand it ends up bringing down the largest financial system in the world. It therefore must mean that the system was unstable given that a small shock could topple it. It could actually mean that the Fed was right about not pricking bubbles if the effects of bubbles are actually small shocks to a stable system. Let's assess, first, the magnitude of the shock and then its effect. Large shock versus stable system or small shock versus unstable system. Its easy to trace how these mortgages were pyramided into bonds and stocks and propagated the shock. Why not go back to a basic point that we had developed an inherently unstable financial system that is now broken. And we need to put that back together. And that is something that the private sector cannot do.

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A few posters have hinted at this but I will just say it. Avoiding bubbles may be as simple as avoiding too much income inequity. Obviously too little inequity is likely to lead to economic stagnation. But just as obviously too much income inequity seems to lead to unstable economic bubbling (and painful popping).

We all know (I hope) that while the 20s roared it was also a gilded age where the very rich paid ever less taxes and gained an ever growing share of income. Massive increases in debt helped masked this for awhile but we all know how it ended. And Japan - don't forget the OECD found income inequality rose twice as fast in Japan as in other rich countries between the mid '80s and 2000. And sure enough as income inequity accelerated an asset bubble formed and Japan is still dealing with the deflationary outcome. And the internet based stock bubble? Well a quick google will help you learn that while income inequity grew from 1970 on in the US, the amount of inequity accelerated in the early 90s. And again I hope we all know that 00 economic "recovery" was captured almost entirely by the rich at level of income inequity that was likely greater than 20s.

Granted it might be easier politically to sell increasingly high tax rates on the rich and ultra rich as "automatic bubble stabilizers". But the indicator to turn them on is an easy easy thing to figure out. Too much income (NOT asset) inequity and tax rates go up sharply for the top 10%. If income inequity drops then tax rates can slowly follow.

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