Obama Demand: The Israeli Occupation Must End
It is becoming clear that Barack Obama understands that the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is at the heart of virtually all of America's problems in the Middle East.
He also understands that, paradoxically, it is the Middle East problem most amenable to resolution by way of American leadership. Indians and Pakistanis care what the United States thinks, but neither depends on us the way Israelis and Palestinians do. Israelis and Palestinians need us, both for our aid and for political and moral support. Neither side can say "no" to an American President with impunity--especially when all he is demanding is that each live up to commitments they have already made.
He would not have told the Chicago Tribune this week that he will go to the Middle East this winter to tell the Arabs (and the Israelis) that the page has turned if he had not intended to abandon America's entirely one-sided policy in favor of playing the role of honest broker. We haven't played that role in decades.
That means issuing demands to both sides. Neither has to do what we want but each will surely understand that simply ignoring Obama is not an option. (Bush, even when he tried to do the right thing, was undermined by Eliot Abrams, Douglas Feith, Scooter Libby, John Bolton, David Wurmser and others inside his own administration. That is not going to happen with Obama as President and Emanuel as enforcer.
Of course, issuing demands to the Palestinians is nothing new. We have been doing that for 20 years. Our first demand was that the PLO recognize Israel's right to exist and renounce terrorism. It did that first with a unilateral statement in 1988 and then, again, in 1993 with the Oslo Declaration. Today the Palestinian Authority works with Israel to combat terrorism, is fully committed to the two-state solution, and is engaged in negotiations with Israel on a final status agreement. The Palestinians have also acceded to our demands that the PLO amend its charter to remove references to the destruction of Israel and eliminate anti-Semitic references in Palestinian textbooks.
The most significant Palestinian concession was to give up the claim to all of historic Palestine. For the first 30 years of its existence, the PLO (and Palestinians in general) rejected Israel's right to any part of Palestine. Today they concede 78% of the land to Israel--i.e. the land encompassed by the '67 borders--while insisting on establishing a state in the 22% that is the West Bank, Gaza, and East Jerusalem.
Israel's most significant concession was recognizing the Palestinian right to statehood. It took five decades but today the government of Israel accepts the Palestinian claim to that 22% figure, although it wants some flexibility in determining what lands will constitute it. (For instance, it would swap some land in Israel proper in exchange for West Bank territory adjacent to Israel).
Essentially, the two sides are already in agreement about what an Israeli-Palestinian peace treaty will look like.
The main obstacle to achieving it remains the occupation. Ironically, the number of Israeli settlements, and settlers, has increased dramatically since Israel committed itself to ending it. There is no need to spell out the details here. Everyone knows about the checkpoints, the wall, the roads reserved for settlers only, the systematic destruction of the Palestinian economy, the incessant harassment by settlers.
Worst of all, the occupation keeps getting more violent. There are settler pogroms against Palestinians in Hebron. Settlers are grabbing Silwan, the very heart of Arab Jerusalem, which was long considered immune to settler squatting because it is 100% Arab. Settlers are fighting the Israeli army to preserve their right to expropriate Palestinian land and destroy Palestinian livelihood. In their minds, Biblical promises infinitely trump the rights of people who have been living continuously on the land for millennia. And they have no respect for the government of Israel or its laws; their Zionism is more about Hebron than Tel Aviv (they despise Israel's largest city for being secular, tolerant, and, by their lights, godless). They get away with murder and have for forty years.
The United States barely protests. How many times have Israeli prime ministers pledged to stop the expansion of settlements, pledged to take down the illegal outposts, pledged to remove the checkpoints that serve no purpose but harassment?
But none of the pledges have been implemented. The very land being negotiated over is being taken, acre by acre. Continuation of the settlement enterprise contradicts the entire premise of the peace process: land for peace. Pretty soon the land will all be gone, grabbed up by settlers while the Israeli government alternatively encouraged them or turned a blind eye. And the United States, terrified to be seen as "pressuring Israel," has issued only the mildest of criticisms along with some winks and nods. Issue demands? God forbid.
President Bill Clinton alluded to this phenomenon when he told Prime Minister Ehud Barak that he was tired of the President of the United States being treated as if its sole role was to do precisely what Barak wanted--no more, no less.
"I'm tired of being a wooden Indian . . . doing your bidding," Clinton said.
The next President should not be in that position and, hopefully, the Israelis will not expect him to be.
The good news is that the Israeli government may actually be waking up. Understanding at last that the settler movement is as much a threat to the State of Israel as to the Palestinians, the Olmert government has acted.
Last week, the Israel Defense Forces stormed the house in Hebron that settlers grabbed, and which they had pledged to fight to the death to hold. They didn't. Sure, they cursed and spat at Israeli soldiers but they were quickly overwhelmed by IDF force. The settlers had wanted to send a message to the people of Israel that West Bank settlers could not be removed as their Gaza brethren were. Instead, with their quickly collapsed resistance, they sent the opposite message. When the Israeli government wants them out, they will leave. Like the white supremacists of Mississippi and Alabama in the 1960's, they can't fight the army.
The settler surrender in Hebron empowers the United States too. No more does an American President have to "understand" that the settlers are too powerful to confront. No, the 44th President can, and should, tell the Israeli prime minister that settlement growth must be permanently frozen, illegal outposts must be taken down, and plans for the removal of the vast majority of settlements must be put in place now.
The Israelis themselves have taken an important step by evacuating the Hebron house. It's only a start, but it shows the way. President Obama, and Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, can help Olmert, and his successor, by making clear that they expect promises to be fulfilled, pledges to be lived up to. They can, and must, tell Israel's next prime minister that America stands behind Israel's security as it always has--but not behind the occupation that is destroying it.
Friends don't let friends drive drunk.
It's that simple.



















Well Done!
My personal hope here is that together, Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton win a Nobel Peace prize via the method you espouse - no one gets to drive drunk.
December 13, 2008 11:19 AM | Reply | Permalink
Since Obama's election, it seems you have posted various versions of this same column at least twice a week, as if you are trying to convince yourself that it is true. "THIS TIME IT IS FOR REAL!" "OBAMA IS GOING TO DO WHAT NO PRESIDENT UP UNTIL NOW HAS DONE-FORCE THE TWO SIDES TO REACH AN AGREEMENT". etc, etc, etc.
Of course, Clinton did attempt this...he locked the leaders in a room for a couple of weeks and came up empty....and mind you, this was with a Palestinian leader, Arafat, who was much stronger and much more respected than the current two-headed Palestinian leadership is...Abbas and the HAMAS people in Gaza. So then MJ and the "progressives" start cooking up the excuses..."Arafat really wanted a agreement but he was insulted that Barak talked at dinner with Chelsea Clinton and not him", or "Clinton was too pro-Israel", or "Clinton had too many Jewish advisors", etc, etc, etc.
We keep hearing about "the agreement that everyone knows the terms of". In fact, Olmert has stated there is no agreement and yet he has pretty much accepted all the Palestinian territorial demands. Yossi Alpher of Bitterlemons, one of the original Oslo and a "progressive" also says there has been no agreement on any of the tough issues...Jerusalem, refugees, etc.
MJ then says:
-----------------------------------------------
That means issuing demands to both sides. Neither has to do what we want but each will surely understand that simply ignoring Obama is not an option. (Bush, even when he tried to do the right thing, was undermined by Eliot Abrams, Douglas Feith, Scooter Libby, John Bolton, David Wurmser and others inside his own administration. That is not going to happen with Obama as President and Emanuel as enforcer.
------------------------------------------------
See, to MJ it's all a conspiracy. If it weren't for those cursed neo-Cons, there would have been an agreement years ago, right MJ? Even though Clinton had all sorts of "progressives" around him and he failed to reach an agreement.
MJ says "ignoring Obama is simply not an option". Well, let's say Abbas does ignore Obama. What can Obama do to him? Cut the American and EU financial aid that the Palestinian Authority is totally dependent on? (it is interesting that his brother Arabs don't give him much aid-better to get the patsy Westerners to pony up the cash--call it a "jizyah" dhimmi tax, if you like). If the US tries to cut the aid then Abbas will then reply "go ahead, cut it, there will then be an economic crisis in the Palestinian territories, and the HAMAS will take over!". Abbas has the US over a barrel. Obama will have no leverage over them in order to force them to accept his terms. So why should Abbas compromise on issues like the "Right of Return" when compromise on his part would lead to charges that he is a traitor? Arafat told Clinton he would be assassinated if he compromised on this, and he was a lot stronger than Abbas. How is Obama going to get the two different Palestinian forces together? Saudi Arabia with their big bucks and the Egyptians with their neighborly influence failed. So who is going to speak for the Palestinians?
Go ahead, MJ, keep writing these articles. All they will do in the long run is erode your credibility.
December 13, 2008 11:47 AM | Reply | Permalink
YBD, you are an Israeli and a self-described supporter of the occupation and the settlements. Here at TPM, you are howling at the wind. Sorry to cause you to become so unhinged but, hey, Israeli settlers and their supporters don't have a say in our politics.
The reverse is not true, however. All American taxpayers get a say in Israel's policies. Sorry.
December 13, 2008 12:05 PM | Reply | Permalink
I comment here because I assume many TPM readers are intelligent and will be impressed if faced with the facts. You are welcome to try to refute the facts I bring here. For example, explain to me how Obama can "force" the Palestinians to accept the terms he puts forward. I have shown why he can't (yes, it is true that in the past they did not openly say to Clinton that they reject his proposals, they would say "we accept the terms WITH RESERVATIONS" and these reservations then effectively neutralize their apparent "concessions".
You make an implied threat that if Israel doesn't "behave" the US taxpayer is going to get mad. Well, I assume you saw the poll a couple of months ago (it was posted in a comment to an earlier thread of years) saying something like 70% of all American view Israel as an ally (I don't recall the exact word, if it was "friend", "asset" or whatever). Only 17% IIRC said the same about the Palestinians. This is in spite of the "occupation", "the settlements", the lack of an independent Palestinian state or whatever other conditions agitates you "progressives" so much about Israel. Clearly, your positions are not typical of the majority in the US. But, let's say that Obama heeds the "progressives" advice and says he is so mad at Israel that he is cutting us off. What is the possible Arab response? We can tell from a historical precedent. In 1967 France was Israel's main outside arms supplier. De Gaulle decided to go with what he thought was the winner, Nasser, and announced he was cutting Israel off. This led Nasser to inflaming further his anti-Israel rhetoric and he said the upcoming conflict would mean the end of Israel. (Fortunately it didn't turn out that way). Today, if the US cut off Israel militarily and diplomatically, it is possible the Arabs could think this is the time for an offensive which could go nuclear. Do you want to take that chance?
December 13, 2008 12:37 PM | Reply | Permalink
I feel no need to specifically respond to you because we are so far apart in all our assumptions that I'd be doing it all day.
One thing I like about you. You are civil and don't do the ad hominem stuff. In short, you do not violate TPM guidelines and I appreciate that.
December 13, 2008 12:55 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hey MJ, if Obama can make this work (and I think he can) what happens to your work? I just wonder what you'll want your job to be, and what causes you'll champion, if as you say both sides find a way to live up to the agreements they've already made.
Sorry for giving you a blogging assignment but I am curious. If we could get both sides to live up to the peace that has already been outlined, what's next for M.J. Rosenberg?
December 13, 2008 12:28 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hey Destor, I hope that happens. If I didn't have the I-P issue, I'd stick to my first love: American politics and history, especially Presidents. I worked on Capitol Hill and State Dept for 20 years and not on this issue. I was quite happy!
December 13, 2008 12:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
If there were a book about American history by MJ Rosenberg I'd definitely buy a copy.
Come on Israel and Palestine, get it together so that MJ can get crackin'!
December 13, 2008 2:22 PM | Reply | Permalink
You an Am history buff?
I'm a fanatic. If only there was a blog interested on my musings about Garfield's assassination.
II get no pleasure from the Middle East. Work. Aggravation. But American history I love, especially as it now culminates with Obama!
December 13, 2008 2:32 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'm not a fanatic for it but I need to know more and if there's a writer I like, all the better. Really I'm more driven to what I read by the writer more than the subject matter. For example, your approach to I/P makes me more willing to read about them. You do have me convinced that a solution is at hand. I think Obama, building on Clinton's work, can get it done. Too bad we lost 8 years there, if Gore had been president in 2000 you'd be halfway through your book by now.
December 13, 2008 3:50 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yo! Any please send me any musings on the Garfield assassination you write or have written.
Not Sure if you've seen The Money Masters,
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-515319560256183936&ei=XyZESZ_nO5OwrALVooX7DA&q=money+masters
but skip to 1:41:40 for the chapter on Garfield. Private bankers, no?
Let me know your view!
December 13, 2008 4:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
Because the American story is world universal story. Because Americans are from everyplace....and we can intermarry....and it's okay. It really is okay!
December 15, 2008 6:38 PM | Reply | Permalink
Actually, MJ, you could volunteer your time to counsel the returning settlers about how nice Tel Aviv is.
December 15, 2008 6:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
It will be interesting to see if Obama really has intentions of changing the direction of this conflict. It just may be that he has chosen HRC, Rahm Emmanuel, and others to his administration to provide cover for this high priority and high risk undertaking I believe he has in mind.
To YBD and others, the reason Americans express support for Israel as a key ally, as opposed to the Palestinians, is because our MSM has carefully nurtured this view over the decades. The reasons for this are in part legitimate (they often do act as an ally) but they have also become the juvenile delinquent that the parent has refused to discipline while continuing with his monthly allowance. And I think it speaks to the unprecedented effectiveness of the "lobby" in shaping U.S. public opinion. But the truth is beginning to leak out. And it isn't pretty. It has become obvious to many Americans that the true Zionist agenda is the complete annexation of all the Palestinian territory and the ethnic cleasning of the indigenous population. Thank heavens the "silent majority" of progressive Jews in this country are finally starting to be heard.
YBD and his/her? cronies may fume and fret all they want but I believe the earth has shifted. I hope it is not too late. In the end Israel will be far better off. And don't think for a minute the U.S. would stand by and let any Islamic entity truly jeopardize Israel's existence. Once true peace with justice emerges the radicals on both sides will be marginalized.
December 13, 2008 1:11 PM | Reply | Permalink
You are right. If Obama tomorrow said that Israel must end the occupation in 24 hours, 95% of Americans would go "right on."
All the rightwing groups commission polls that ask if you prefer "democratic Israel" to "Palestinian fanatics" and get the responses they pay for.
Americans are neutral and will follow the President.
December 13, 2008 3:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
Golly. There I was writing up a comment that involved me in reading Mr. Rosenberg's mind and putting words in his mouth, when he came out with it fair and square himself!
'Tis not a thing that happens very often.
There is a sort of consistency to his wrongness, insofar as he makes both American and Israëli mainstream popular opinion matters of Platonic mystery: all mere appearances are deceiving and "everything you know is wrong."
His opponent better suits this Aristotelian. She thinks (almost threatens) that American public opinion can be tampered with by AIPAC & Co., which so do all of US.
Less explicitly, she thinks that the Tel Aviv pols are giving their customers more or less the product that the customers want, whereas Mr. Rosenberg must hold some theory of occult skullduggery whereby they impose a minority agenda of extreme Hyperzionism.
WYSIWYG can be dreadfully boring, but it is usually right.
"If Obama tomorrow said that Israel must end the occupation in 24 hours," -- well, what I'd want to see are the BHO opinion polls from 24 days or 24 months later.
Merry days.
December 13, 2008 3:57 PM | Reply | Permalink
Who is the "she," the "opponent"? Couldn't follow you, except, I guess, you don't agree with MJ.
December 13, 2008 5:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
"To YBD and others, the reason Americans express support for Israel as a key ally, as opposed to the Palestinians, is because our MSM has carefully nurtured this view over the decades."
There is also a blending of all Arabs and Muslims into one thing. So 9/11, the Cole, the embassies, the Marine barracks all become one thing. So the careful "nurturing" has been aided by the horrific actions of Muslims in the name of Islam. Add to that fact that Islam is a bit more exotic than Judaism at this point.
I tend to be less paranoid about what the media are nurturing than some other people...
So, for example, many point to AIPAC's power to control public perception, or Congress's perception, of the Middle East...as if all those terrorists acts had no effect. I can tell you that two planes crashing into the Twin Towers influences how people think a lot more than AIPAC lobbying and press releases or stories that don't tell both sides of an event quite fairly.
December 13, 2008 6:01 PM | Reply | Permalink
It's a good thing that the American military arrived in the ME only after that litany. We supported the Saudis only after terroris. And it's a good thing that Palestinian anger at the US preceeded the occupation.
Wait a minute. That's all backwards.
December 15, 2008 6:41 PM | Reply | Permalink
Shame on you, M.J. Rosenberg. As Obama said,
Your comments express a profoundly distorted view that sees the conflicts in the Middle East as rooted primarily in the actions of stalwart allies like Israel, instead of emanating from the perverse and hateful ideologies of radical Islam.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/03/18/obama-race-speech-read-th_n_92077.html
December 13, 2008 2:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yeah, right
December 13, 2008 2:29 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yes, M.J. read again this great speech and rethink your views that not only wrong but divisive.
"But the remarks that have caused this recent firestorm weren't simply controversial. They weren't simply a religious leader's effort to speak out against perceived injustice. Instead, they expressed a profoundly distorted view of this country - a view that sees white racism as endemic, and that elevates what is wrong with America above all that we know is right with America; a view that sees the conflicts in the Middle East as rooted primarily in the actions of stalwart allies like Israel, instead of emanating from the perverse and hateful ideologies of radical Islam.
As such, Reverend Wright's comments were not only wrong but divisive, divisive at a time when we need unity; racially charged at a time when we need to come together to solve a set of monumental problems - two wars, a terrorist threat, a falling economy, a chronic health care crisis and potentially devastating climate change; problems that are neither black or white or Latino or Asian, but rather problems that confront us all."
December 13, 2008 2:47 PM | Reply | Permalink
Dream on, Nate. McCsin lost and Obama "gets" the Middle East.
Rough year, huh. First Hillary lost. Then McCain. You got the guy you most feared. Ah, democracy!
December 13, 2008 3:03 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yes, Obama "gets" the Middle East, you don't.
He understands that the conflicts in the Middle East are emanating from the perverse and hateful ideologies of radical Islam. You think that the conflicts in the Middle East are rooted primarily in the actions of stalwart allies like Israel. He is right, you and Rev. Wright are not only wrong but divisive. 95% of Americans agree with Obama and only 5% of Americans agree with you and Rev. Wright.
December 13, 2008 4:36 PM | Reply | Permalink
What speech was this: "He understands that the conflicts in the Middle East are emanating from the perverse and hateful ideologies of radical Islam."
I guess Obama is going tell Abbas to stop being such an Islamist. I always thought he was a Palestinian nationalist.
December 15, 2008 6:44 PM | Reply | Permalink
tnathan - If you want to hear invective much worse than Rev. Wright go to shul in Kiryat Arba as I did in October with my niece. Hatred is a two way street - never forget that.
December 13, 2008 6:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
No need to travel that far. I can just read comments on this site.
December 13, 2008 7:09 PM | Reply | Permalink
Nice to see you, again (Peter)
December 14, 2008 10:48 AM | Reply | Permalink
If this happens, it will be the fulfillment of a dream of my lifetime. But oh, there's gonna be a lot of weeping and wailing if Obama attempts it. I wish him luck.
December 13, 2008 2:29 PM | Reply | Permalink
"...a time when we need to come together to solve a set of monumental problems - two wars, a terrorist threat, a falling economy, a chronic health care crisis and potentially devastating climate change; problems that are neither black or white or Latino or Asian, but rather problems that confront us all."
If we followed MJ's prescription we could start on a path that would immediately yield a brighter future for those first two problems and the rest would benefit from changed priorities and lessen the need for disproportionate military emphasis and expenditure. Just think what could be accomplished if we didn't spend 50% of our annual discretionary budget on the military. I think we have a skewed concept of what constitutes true national security.
I hate to say this but Rev. Wright was closer to the truth than most would dare acknowledge publically. I don't believe he hates America. I think he hates many of our policies. Ditto for much of the Islamic world.
December 13, 2008 4:06 PM | Reply | Permalink
M.J. acknowledges publically every day his agreement with Rev. Wright.
December 13, 2008 5:12 PM | Reply | Permalink
I agree with you on Wright. Like most liberals, I agree with alot of the things he said. Mike Huckabee pointed out, during the spring, that any African-American of Wright's age, who grew up in the south, would tend to view the world as Wright does.
December 13, 2008 8:45 PM | Reply | Permalink
Not any African-American of Wright's age:
"Anti-Zionism = Anti-Semitism"
- Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.
". . . You declare, my friend, that you do not hate the Jews, you are merely 'anti-Zionist.' And I say, let the truth ring forth from the high mountain tops, let it echo through the valleys of God's green earth: When people criticize Zionism, they mean Jews--this is God's own truth.
December 13, 2008 9:55 PM | Reply | Permalink
Context? Logical fallacy of arguing from authority.
December 15, 2008 6:46 PM | Reply | Permalink
YBD, please keep posting and being the voice of reason here! when people like "RWH" talk about exposing "the true Zionist agenda" we should shudder: this could be Ahmedinajad or Goering speaking.
but, you know, for MJ and the TPM libs, Israel will never do enough, concede enough, sacrifice enough. the noble Palestinian, friend to our country in so many ways, must come first.
I am also amazed that MJ is still keeping up the fiction that Barack Obama is everything the left dreamed he would be. in fact he is not. so far, he's basically re-created the Clinton White House, and his "transparent" administration has already become clouded with their non-answers on Illinois Gov. Blagojevich. he's also not taking troops out of Iraq or closing Gitmo just quite yet. huh!
that you continue to think this guy is going to take us back to the glory days of the '60s is pretty funny.
December 13, 2008 9:40 PM | Reply | Permalink
so the rightwingers here are now insisting obama is not the lefty they called him during the campaign but rather a status quo nothing. in your dreams, kids. just watch and wait. your fears of a presidency that does not buy into neocon bs were well grounded. obama will be everything you feared he would be when you voted for mccain.
must be rough having a president whose middle name is hussein. that's ok. just salute and get out of the way.
December 13, 2008 11:28 PM | Reply | Permalink
Why don't you and Rev. Wright. just salute and get out of the way. Obama told you over and over again, Israel is not the problem, the perverse and hateful ideologies of radical Islam is the problem.
December 13, 2008 11:59 PM | Reply | Permalink
Actually, Obama "tricked" us lefties because the righties know the truth: he's one of them. Hmm...If true, why did they claim he was a commie during the campaign.....maybe, just maybe because he's a righty who pretented to be a lefty pretending to be a moderate who is actually a righty who has consistently voted lefty so that he can now govern righty.
Have we Democrats been foiled again?
December 15, 2008 6:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
Common Israelis and Palestinians are reasonable people and if they see a reasonable offer they would certainly work with that. However, I am just not sure the Obama admin would actually offer some common sense solution. There is just not one issue of two nations or one nation, the US support of Israel has many dimensions. Can the Obama admin influence all the forces in the US in a short period of time? I doubt that.
The media here will have a hard time going against President Obama even when the media is under enormous pressure from the pro Israel lobby. Obama is a hard target due to his constituency but he also lacks the affinity with the interested groups in the US to force a solution.
I am more hopeful about his second term when he will be free of many impediments.
December 13, 2008 11:19 PM | Reply | Permalink
The main obstacle to achieving it remains the occupation. Ironically, the number of Israeli settlements, and settlers, has increased dramatically since Israel committed itself to ending it. There is no need to spell out the details here. Everyone knows about the checkpoints, the wall, the roads reserved for settlers only, the systematic destruction of the Palestinian economy, the incessant harassment by settlers.
The occupation and the colonization movement are different things. They are intertwined, but different; and it is important to separate them in our minds so that we clearly understand the problem.
The occupation is an ongoing military operation. In principle it can be ended rapidly. The Israeli government only needs to order its soldiers to dismantle the checkpoints, pack up their equipment, leave their posts and come home.
The colonization movement is an entirely different matter. How Israel extracts many thousands of civilian colonists who have built homes and communities, and are in no mood to leave, I don't know. What happened in Hebron shows how difficult it is even to get Jews out of a single apartment building they don't want to leave.
My concern is that Obama's plan will shy away from a clear articulation of the end state, and will simply call for another round "negotiations" between Israelis and Palestinians on the location of the Palestinian state, the disposition of Jerusalem, etc. This approach is unlikely to produce durable results, because it is not an approach that can be expected to aim at justice. The Israelis have the large and sophisticated military, the nuclear weapons, the large and powerful ally, the global financial network, and the modern economy. Having them negotiate with the Palestinians to reach a solution is like having the Soviet Union negotiate with the Hungarians in 1956. It would only be a negotiation on surrender terms.
Before I get excited about the New Era, I want to see just what coercive tools the US is prepared to bring to bear to make a resolution a reality. If they are just the tools of noble sentiments and grand speeches, nothing will change. What is going to happen when the first Israeli colonist is forcibly removed from his house, and the great blubbering Israeli sobs-and-tears machine pulls out the violins and gets its global operations rolling? What is going to happen when the combined Jewish and Christian Zionist propaganda machine launches its project to hang onto the Holy Land and "Judea" and "Samaria"?
December 14, 2008 10:22 AM | Reply | Permalink
I'm pretty confident that Obama can stand up to Netanyahu. The great thing about Bibi is that he stands for nothing. He'll do what he has to do to stay in office. And the Americans can't stand him (in 1997, I was telling Pres. Clinton a few things about Bibi. And Clinton put his arm around my shoulder and said, "you don't know the half of it, my friend.")
Clinton was never taken in by Bibi. But Barak manipulated him.
So I'm pretty confident. Also the Jewish right here collapsed this November. They were terrified of Obama and ran a full-blast "he's a Muslim and hates Israel" campaign against him. And Obama got 78% (only the far right Orthos and the Russian emigres voted Mc Cain). Obama can do it.
One more thing. He knows that the Israel firsters voted against him in the primaries and the general. He owes them nothing.
December 14, 2008 12:04 PM | Reply | Permalink
The reason why Obama got 78% of the Jewish vote is his words:
" Instead, they expressed a profoundly distorted view of this country - a view that sees white racism as endemic, and that elevates what is wrong with America above all that we know is right with America; a view that sees the conflicts in the Middle East as rooted primarily in the actions of stalwart allies like Israel, instead of emanating from the perverse and hateful ideologies of radical Islam. "
If would ever agree with you and said that conflicts in the Middle East as rooted primarily in the actions of Israel he would never get even 25% of the Jewish vote.
December 14, 2008 12:54 PM | Reply | Permalink
Actually, Nate, not being an American, you may not know that barely any American Jewish voters cast their ballots on the basis of Mideast policy at all.
You just don't get this America thing. Your kids will.
December 14, 2008 5:03 PM | Reply | Permalink
Than why did Obama have to say that "the conflicts in the Middle East is emanating from the perverse and hateful ideologies of radical Islam"?
This is pure neocon thinking. You supported Obama because you thought that he didn't tell the truth and that he really thought that "the conflicts in the Middle East is rooted primarily in the actions of stalwart allies like Israel". Why did Obama have to lie if "barely any American Jewish voters cast their ballots on the basis of Mideast policy at all"?
December 14, 2008 6:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
Aw Nate. It's politics. And it has nothing to do with voters. It's about a few donors.
Fact is, George W. Bush was "Israel's best friend in the White House ever" (ask the head of any Jewish organization) but he couldn't get Jewish votes.
Because Jews are Americans. And they do not vote on the basis of the Middle East although some donors give money based on it. So candidates do what they have to do.
Fine with me. Whatever it takes to elect a liberal is fine with me. (On the Republican side, the Republican Jewish coalition will say or do anything on Israel to elect a Republican. The National Jewish democratic Council does the same for the Democrats.
It's a game. But it's okay. You do what you need to to get your guy in. You say what you have to. Because, Nate, we're Americans and, whether GOP or Dem, it's America we care about.
Learn. You live here now. Or maybe you don't.
December 14, 2008 10:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
I see, Obama had to lie to satisfy a few donors. Why do you think he would not need the same donors in 2 years to reelect a Democratic congress and in four years to get reelected himself?
December 14, 2008 11:49 PM | Reply | Permalink
Trapped! You agree that kissing up to the Jewish right is done only to secure campaign money. Thank you and goodbye.
December 15, 2008 7:44 AM | Reply | Permalink
Mr. Rosenberg, a few questions. Can you please tell us whether the President-elect told you himself of this demand, or whether you heard it from an aide, and, if so which aide, or whether you are inferring it from some statement of the President-elect's, or from something else?
Please also tell us exactly when the good citizens of Kyriat Araba and Maale Admun must leave the West Bank. Will that be before General Jones determines that the Palestinian Authority is capable of policing the entire West Bank or after? Will that be before Hamas publicly accepts a two-state solution or after?
Finally, can you please tell us which members of the House and Senate are prepared to publicly support this demand of the President-elect?
Thank you.
December 14, 2008 7:54 PM | Reply | Permalink
What demand? It's my demand and the hope he'll make it. Where did I say it is his demand?
As for the settlers, they should get out tomorrow but I suspect it will take longer than that.
All occupations end. All colonial regimes collapse. The West Bank will be no different.
How many win Congress would support it? If there was public financing of campaigns, 400. Under the current system, 50.
December 14, 2008 10:18 PM | Reply | Permalink