Unhinged
I spoke last night on Obama and the transformational possibilities that would open up with his victory, to an overwhelmingly friendly congregation at Temple Emanuel in Great Neck, on Long Island. During the Q-and-A, a man halfway back in the audience started shouting: "You have no business here! Shut up! Get out! Obama hates Israel! You hate Israel! You're anti-American! You're a Communist!" And so on. (I think there was something about terrorists, too, though I'm not sure, the acoustics not having been designed for enraged disruptions.) The shouter had to be, as they say, escorted out. Rabbi Robert Widom closed out the evening with an impassioned appeal for civility. Without question he spoke for his deeply embarrassed audience.
A dozen congregants cautioned me afterwards not to think that the shouter was representative of their crowd. (Evidently the man is not even a regular.) Overall, indeed, Gallup in October had 74 percent of Jews supporting Obama as against 22 percent supporting McCain. The ratio is on a par with the percentage who supported Kerry, though below the 80 percent who supported Gore-Lieberman.
Still, a more mannerly audience member inquired aloud about Obama's "Palestinian friend"; another about Obama's relationship with the "terrorist, anti-Semite" Jeremiah Wright. Another worried privately, later, that Obama would let Israel be destroyed. One man told me that old friends still fire off e-mails warning about Obama as Muslim-Ayers-pal-Wright-stooge etc.
In recent weeks, Sarah Palin's fans have been coming off their leashes. They are Rush Limbaugh's fans, Sean Hannity's fans. They are awash in hysteria. The prospect of defeat inflames their paranoia. Don't think they're going away. Among the one-fifth or one-quarter of American Jews who'll vote for McCain are a number--a small number, but small numbers make history--who have worked themselves into an apocalyptic furor. They know that the devil stalks the gate to the temple. This won't be the first time that the prospect of a Democratic president drives their sort around the bend. They'll be back.
All the more reason for President Obama to use Bill Clinton and former Ambassador Dennis Ross to work towards an enduring two-state solution which the Saudis and Egyptians make Hamas obey, and for President Obama to squeeze the Iranian wackos as hard as he can economically so that sensible Iranians can take over.
November 1, 2008 9:42 AM | Reply | Permalink
Your comment to me below (on the Mort thread), most probably for suggesting that the parade of politicos to AIPAC resembles pandering:
"You are one sick puppy, self-hater. You don't belong in Judaism or in American politics. Go to Ramallah, you fucking dog. Neither you nor anyone who thinks like you will have any say in an Obama Administration, thank G-d."
You sure that wasn't you at the Temple during Mr. Gitlin's talk last night? Talk about unhinged.
November 1, 2008 10:33 AM | Reply | Permalink
Not a chance. Last night I communed on Broadway with Billy Eliott, his father, his brother his dead mother, his pouf friend Michael and his village. None of them were deluded about real world events like you are.
November 1, 2008 12:32 PM | Reply | Permalink
If it wasn't apacmember, it must have been Charles Krauthammer.
November 1, 2008 4:36 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yes, my first thought was that Krauthammer made it to the event and came unglued again. It is amazing that the right wingers are so lightly glued together they fall apart at the thought of a Democratic president. Yet, when faced with a totally proven incompetent George Bush as a second term president none of them had any problem at all.
November 1, 2008 7:28 PM | Reply | Permalink
True, true....
November 2, 2008 7:49 AM | Reply | Permalink
apacmember,
I don't see you on any other threads commenting on the serious problems facing the USA today. Why is that? You seem to be a one issue person, Israel, much like the abortion and gun crowd.
November 2, 2008 9:42 AM | Reply | Permalink
On most of the other issues I have no strong disagrements with the majority of posters. (If I did I would never have donated over a thousand dollars to Sen. Obama's campaign.)
So I prefer to spend my limited time focusing on dispelling the anti-Israel and anti-AIPAC canards that infect Mr. Rosenberg's and Mr. Levy's and Ms. Mort's blogs.
November 2, 2008 10:27 PM | Reply | Permalink
Even among educated Jews you occasionally find ignorant and uninformed individuals (why would this segment of the population be any different then the the rest of the country) even though in a demographic that generally values education you WOULD expect better.
The senselessness of those who believe the scurrilous emails, advertisements and other propaganda dispensed by the republican party and their minions is appalling. You would think in this day and age of the internet that they would at least investigate the crap that they receive before repeating it.
Worse then those who actually believe this crap are those that dispense it; truly to me the most unpatriotic act of all. That McCain and Palin have sunk to this level is more then disappointing - we, as a nation, should strive to overcome the negativity of this campaign and, irrespective of who wins (Go Obama) focus on repairing this damage to our national psyche.
November 1, 2008 9:55 AM | Reply | Permalink
Your first three paragraphs sound like a regular day in the blogosphere on most topics.
November 1, 2008 10:57 AM | Reply | Permalink
I am really worried, without hyperbole, that some of these people won't do something really stupid, especially 2-4 years into an Obama presidency when the right wing machine whips up anti-Obama hatred among the dead-enders, the same way it did with Clinton. And no, I don't mean an assassination attempt on Obama, I mean the kinds of things we saw in the 1990s -- Ruby Ridge, Waco, Oklahoma City -- the whole survivalist/militia movement. Remember the "angry white male?" They can't win, so they're trying to divide.
November 1, 2008 12:39 PM | Reply | Permalink
Mr. Gitlin, I support Obama--because I am confident he won't listen to idiots like Rosenberg and Levy-- and I very much hope that the level of Jewish voter support is indeed as high as 74%.
Still, I have to be sceptical of that figure from Gallup's recent poll, only because I am not at all certain that Orthodox Jews--from whom McCain gets the most support--respond to polls to the same extent as non-orthodox Jews, especially as to phone surveys on Friday nights and Saturdays. I haven't seen any pieces by professional pollsters on this, but I would be very suprised if Orthodox and Hasidic Jews, who historically have had extremely high rates of voting, participate in polls and surveys in the same proportion as non-Orthodox and non-Hasidic Jews.
November 1, 2008 12:41 PM | Reply | Permalink
Just worry that he won't listen to "idiots" like Yitzhak Rabin. Oh yeah, he's dead. The Jewish right murdered him and 20% of Israelis think that his murderer was a hero.
Poor, deluded AIPACmember.
Also, AIPACmember, you ought to be for Obama because he's good for America, the country you live in.
November 1, 2008 3:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
I do support Sen. Obama because he and Joe Biden--one of Israel's strongest supporters in Congress for decades-- are damn good for America, and because it's very much in America's best interests that Israel be strong and secure. Only an Israel that is so will be willing to take the calculated risks for peace that a two-state solution demands. Bill Clinton and former Amb. Dennis Ross (Obama's chief advisor on I-P issues) got that. Almost all liberal Democratic elected officials get that. What's your problem?
Oh, of course, they only "get it" because they're abject hypocrites afraid of losing campaign dough. Mr. Rosenberg, for the last time: name ONE liberal Democratic Congressman or Senator whose support for AIPAC's positions is insincere and motivated solely out of fear of losing campaign contributions. You have never done it, and you won't now because you can't
Now what exactly am I deluded about?
November 2, 2008 10:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
I question the wisdom of engaging a guy who referred to another poster as a "fucking dog".
If there's no real chance of a reasonable argument, why waste your breath?
This whole issue of Obama's support for Israel is absurd. If 75% of Jews are voting for Obama, we are talking about a smaller minority on the other side than supports the Republican Party in general. Seems like a bit of a non-issue to me.
November 1, 2008 3:45 PM | Reply | Permalink
Unfortunately ignorance and stupidity are lauded as something to be proud of right now in this country. A kind of badge to be worn with some sort of diluted dignity.
Also unfortunately this particular personality trait is being passed on to their children. Which explains some of the abysmal scholastic scores.
C
November 1, 2008 4:55 PM | Reply | Permalink
Unfortunately ignorance and stupidity are lauded as something to be proud of right now in this country. A kind of badge to be worn with some sort of diluted dignity.
Also unfortunately this particular personality trait is being passed on to their children. Which explains some of the abysmal scholastic scores.
C
November 1, 2008 4:56 PM | Reply | Permalink
I like your term "transformational possibilities" and I too hope that it is the beginning of a new direction. Politicians are notorious for promising everything to everyone during a campaign and only delivering while in office to those who continue to fill their re-election campaign coffers. Obama will have a unique opportunity, something akin the Franklin Roosevelt era when the public was hungry for a leader, but the Obama will have to stay on message and goal to accomplish what he has promised. He ran a very inspiring and disciplined campaign, but campaigning is not governing.
Large majorities in both Congressional chambers can be a blessing or a curse and Obama will need Pelosi and Reid to exercise strong leadership. American's like divided government and in 2010 all the House seats will be up for re-election along with some Senate ones. If the various wings of the Democratic Party in each chamber get into petty wars over agendas then it could be 1994 all over again.
November 1, 2008 11:57 PM | Reply | Permalink
Indeed
November 2, 2008 1:02 AM | Reply | Permalink
Oh, horseshit. If 75 per cent of Jews are pro-Obama, then it isn't possible for more than 25 per cent of Jews to be anti-Obama.
As for nuttism: of that 25 per cent, any who votre Republican are putting Israel before the country which ensures Israel's survival: the US.
Either they are pro-US, or the leave it for their preference Israel.
Love the US, or leave it.
And stop the racist supremacism not only of claiming to be a distinct race, but to be superior to all the rest of the human race. Or accept the hostility that invites.
A Jew who isn't also an asshole.
November 2, 2008 2:47 AM | Reply | Permalink
Very Well said: Unhinged,
"This won't be the first time that the prospect of a Democratic president drives their sort around the bend. They'll be back."
Destor23:
"They can't win, so they're trying to divide."
I commented on a topic a few weeks ago and low and behold who should drop in - none other then apacmember - he tried to do the same to me as you said above Destor23; he said that I was a secret McLame supporter. I Can't stand the man. Unhinged, I don't don't think they'll be back; I know they'll stay in the background and pop out every so often to make their UNTrue remarks to divide people and make them doubt themselves so that they disbelieve the Good People. What he wanted to do was try to make all you Good Sensible People stay away from me. Ever since I was a Child I Stood for the Truth; nothing was More Important to me than the Truth. That is what I love and the most worst thing I dislike is what Big Macha indicates and that is negativity!!
Big Macha:
we, as a nation, should strive to overcome the negativity of this campaign and, irrespective of who wins (Go Obama) focus on repairing this damage to our national psyche.
No one will beat you but You. My signiture. Nothing will bother you to much if you Don't let it.
November 2, 2008 4:24 AM | Reply | Permalink
"Their sort?"
Whose paranoia are we talking about here, TG?
Ya know, I was lured by the big goofy face you chose as a photo link on the home page. "Wow," I thought, "Gitlin's actually cracking a smile, even if it isn't his. He's lightened up."
But nah, you're still a sourpuss.
http://www.philly.com/philly/opinion/20081102_The_American_Debate__Democratic_era_coming__Possibly_not.html
November 2, 2008 10:37 AM | Reply | Permalink
A Dailykos diarist had a similar experience with his Rabbi to which he responded
"When the Rabbi came to me before I left to pick the kids up at the Hebrew School mentioned that I was quiet during the political discussion and asked if I follow "the other side". I responded, "I am not going to mention what side I support. But I am uncomfortable discussing political issues at a religious venue. I don’t like mixing politics and religion, historically when they mix Jews die."
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/11/2/94830/1084
November 3, 2008 1:39 PM | Reply | Permalink