Wake Me When the Revolution Begins
Now that we're entering the Golden Age of Obamanian Socialism, we (you, actually) need some instruction on the concept of redistribution. The word is being thrown around loosely by addled minds on both sides of our political divide. As the only representative of the Spartacusbund on this hopelessly moderate web site, the task of providing enlightenment falls to me.
First we should note that our hero Karl Marx did not dwell on redistribution as an ethical policy to advance equity. For him the distribution of income over classes -- what most economists call the functional distribution of income -- was an analytical aspect of the laws of motion under Capitalism. Sure Marx supported obvious reforms such as a progressive income tax, but that was a subordinate feature of his work. Redistribution from rich to not-rich is a liberal and populist trip.
As for socialism, the usual definition is government ownership of capital -- the "means of production." Obama has yet to explore that terrain. George Bush is the real pioneer there. A looser definition is the heavy provision of public services. Of course all governments have services, so how much is a lot? The U.S. ranks near the bottom of industrialized nations in public spending as a share of GDP.
What is the border between socialism and not-socialism? Obviously there is none. In the past, conservatives like William F. Buckley pointed out that if you take health care and defense out of the mix, the U.S. public sector is more comparable in size to those in Europe. Do we have part-socialism already? Obviously this is a stupid debate, John McCain is a stupid man, and Republicans are a stupid party. If everybody is socialist, nobody is.
Regarding redistribution, the usual understanding is that when the tax burden is moved across income classes, there is redistribution. This is misleading because the "re" in redistribution implies some initial, primary distribution, sometimes called the pretax distribution of income (or wealth, depending on the context). Thing is, the pretax distribution of income does not exist. It presumes a distribution of income in the absence of government. But with no government, said distribution would be completely different. There is no redistribution. The Right says, "It's your money." Sorry, it isn't. Not economically, nor legally (taxes are owed as income is accrued). What's left is your money.
To be sure, a given government policy change alters the distribution of well-being from what it would be in the absence of that given policy change, and the movement could be towards greater or lesser equality, among other possibilities. Is that what Obama is doing? I would say no. Here you can find a chart of the impact of Obama's tax plan by income class. The lowest quintile gets nearly a six percent increase, the top one percent gets almost a three percent cut. Sound big to you?
In this paper you can find estimates of the distribution of cash income in 2010 (the years don't match up, but this is a blog, not a Brookings panel). The botton quintile has 3.7%, the top one percent has 19 percent. Add a six percent increase to 3.7% and you get 3.9%. Take three percent away from the top group and you come down from 19 to 18.4%. So instead of a ratio of 19 percent for a group 1/20th size of the people with 3.7%, you have 18.4 and 3.9. If this is socialism, I am Mother Jones. True social-democrats understand that fruits of redistribution derive from the expenditure side of the budget, not the tax side.
The limited action in tax policy for the past two decades or so pertains to the highest and lowest slivers of the population, in terms of income. Democrats tighten the screws on the top and loosen them on the bottom, while Republicans do the opposite. The burden on those in the middle changes much less, if at all. Any such changes, moreover, are temporary insofar as they are financed by higher deficits. The bill comes due later. Meanwhile, the distribution of "market (sic) income" -- wages, salaries, dividends, interest -- has grown much less equal, in comparison to which Democrats' tax changes are meager.
Some liberals enjoy the prospect of redistribution in Obama's tax proposals. They miss crucial angles. Redistribution, among other illusions, summons up the image of taking from one and giving to the other, perhaps to the undeserving poor. First of all, compared to current law (including the expiration of the Bush tax cuts), Obama is offering a net tax reduction. The reduction is bigger for some than for others. Secondly, Obama's infamous refundable tax credits (like McCain's), are conditioned on work. Work implies a payroll tax burden, so a refundable income tax credit is a genuine payroll tax cut, if the individual in question owes less in income tax than in payroll tax.
Second, people forget that welfare has been "reformed." There is no more Federal program called Aid to Families with Dependent Children. The Feds do not give cash to able-bodied people who don't work, unless you count George Bush. There are no more poor people. There are poor workers. The only redeeming virtue of the 1996 welfare reform, for which a toasty place in Hell is reserved for William Jefferson Clinton, is for all practical purposes to turn "welfare" into a wage supplement program. The welfare system is now one of work-conditioned benefits. We're a long way from Das Kapital.
The right-wing canard was that AFDC went to people who wouldn't work. That's gone. Even conservatives say so. Now we're giving working people a raise. That's a different political ballgame. Obama is taking advantage of it. His supporters should do likewise, rather than take pleasure in the long-awaited return of old-style redistribution via public assistance. It's not in Obama's platform.
I personally doubt that many people care about the distribution of income. Said distribution is a column of percentages. People are aggrieved when their expectations of income are not met, and especially when they cannot afford the standard of living to which they have become accustomed. They are suspicious of the promise of government assistance, I would guess for three reasons: 1) they are not confident they will be net recipients in the exercise, rather than net payers; 2) it affronts their pride in earning their own way, or their animus towards those they perceive to not be earning; and 3) they worry about the government's financial solvency.
Work-conditioned benefits are broadly distributed, alleviating problem 1. They depend on work, dealing with (2). Demonstrated budget discipline (which need not imply a balanced budget) addresses (3). Obama has made his tax firewall -- $250,000, below it you don't pay more tax -- abundantly clear to the voters. Within that comfort zone an expansion of work-based benefits is feasible. It could be argued that an emphasis on work-based benefits makes easier the provision of other benefits.
Just don't call it socialism. Save that for the really good stuff.


You make it sound as if wealth is some stuff lying around the ground of which there is only so much and the REALLY BIG PROBLEM (RBP) is to determine how it is distributed. Wealth is created and nobody sitting on their fat ass pontificating about what Karl Marx would say is creating anything of the kind.
So it is quite simple wealth should be DISTRIBUTED (note not RE-) according to what you produce that is of value to society as a whole: as to what has some utility.
Granted given the vagaries and accidents of nature, some people might not be able to produce much of any value. THEY have to be taken care of by the rest. But those who sit on their fat asses collecting "dividends" are not creating any wealth but sucking the blood from the working man's labor.
As per Karl Marx's little formula "to each according to their needs from each according to their abilities", there is something to be said for that, but not much. One way to read it is that he who practices from a young age to become a useless sloth needs to be taken care of by he who labors mightily to improve the human condition. Another—more benign-- way to read it is that those who cannot do for themselves need to be taken care of by those of us who can. There is a blur there somewhere.
The state of the American Social Contract (ASC) is a raw deal for the average person indeed and it is only stupefying habit and a constant infusion of opiates (of which religion is only a minor part these days) that keeps the victims from rebelling.
Adam Smith was Blind as a Bat (BAB) and because of that he hallucinated the existence of an "invisible hand" which nobody could see but that was morally omnipotent.
A full throttled socialist meritocracy would DISTRIBUTE wealth according to how much a person contributes to THE PRODUCTION OF REAL WEALTH (which is not to be confused with the production of paper money at the mint), and adjustments will be made in this distribution to compensate for the unequal distribution of capacity to produce.
Not really rocket science, really
October 25, 2008 12:16 AM | Reply | Permalink
. . . it is quite simple wealth should be DISTRIBUTED (note not RE-) according to what you produce that is of value to society . . . .
How do we determine what "is of value to society"? Clearly, it can't be based on the amount of earnings (only a part of Stan O'Neill's and Dick Fuld's earnings were of "value to society"). And certainly, the earnings of fraud perpetrating mortgage brokers were not socially valuable.
So, what facts should we find before we apply your distribution formula?
October 25, 2008 12:39 AM | Reply | Permalink
Clearly bankrupting the country is NOT valuable to society and the CEO's responsible for it should not be rewarded with Golden Parachutes
October 25, 2008 1:22 AM | Reply | Permalink
May I assume that your "ought" is really "is" with some minor tweaks -- that is, you're leaving it up to the market (the "invisible hand") and only seeking an adjustment at the extremes?
October 25, 2008 8:21 AM | Reply | Permalink
I am a firm believer in social control. So No, I don't believe that things work themselves out by themselves without any "social engineering".
Capitalist are always extremely anxious to instill the notion that government is the problem and that's because they don't want social control and that is because they are holding a royal flush and are not in the mood to reshuffle the deck.
October 25, 2008 6:46 PM | Reply | Permalink
It's called "voting". For example, my ballot will ask me if I want to increase my taxes to pay for my local schools.
October 25, 2008 10:34 AM | Reply | Permalink
So you're the guy who voted to give Stan O'Neill a $159 million severance package in 2007. Thank God we have the franchise.
Did you also vote in favor of his $48 million 2006 compensation?
October 25, 2008 11:40 AM | Reply | Permalink
To the extent that we rely upon an income tax to fund government expenses, fairness of after-tax income results has at least as much to do with what gets taxed as it has to do with what tax brackets income earners are placed in.
Three decades of current tax policy has resulted in the privileging of corporate income and individuals' investment income over workers' wage income. When was the last time any of us heard anyone debating the proper rate of depreciation and depletion allowances; or the proper pricing of assets transfered between sister companies; etc.? When did the question of why capital gains are so very privileged rise to the level of political consciousness?
The time is right for a debate and a major change in the way we tax the fruits of workers' efforts which now go to a rent-seeking class whose proven immorality should make readjustment among classes highly attractive.
October 25, 2008 12:27 AM | Reply | Permalink
Sha! Right!
October 25, 2008 12:38 AM | Reply | Permalink
exactly Ellen!
October 25, 2008 6:55 PM | Reply | Permalink
Is the person who buys housing at a low price and later sells it at a high price "creating" wealth? How about the person who buys stocks at a low price and is lucky enough that people are soon willing to buy it at a higher price - is he "creating" wealth? My answer is no. Nor, is the person who buys a lot of gold Krugerands, and gets lucky when people become willing to pay more for them than he did "creating" wealth. My opinion is that those people are just gamblers, and gamblers certainly don't "create" wealth. So, who does "create" wealth?
October 25, 2008 12:30 AM | Reply | Permalink
Would you agree that the founders of successful business enterprises along with early investors (venture capitalists, for example) "create" wealth?
If so, should the taxing of their rewards (upon the sale of their ownership interests to others) be treated differently from the rewards which go to uninspired, uncreative johnny-come-lately so-called investors?
October 25, 2008 12:47 AM | Reply | Permalink
Seems this discussion needs a definition of wealth to avoid all sorts of misunderstandings or sophistic arguments. I don't agree that these are all-inclusive or exhaustive, but here are the relevant portions of the definition from MW's 11th Collegiate:
"2) valuable material possessions or resources
4) all property that has a money value or an exchangeable value; all material objects that have economic utility, especially : the stock of useful goods having economic value in existence at any one time"
October 25, 2008 11:28 AM | Reply | Permalink
I have a better (I believe) definition: wealth is the ability to achieve one's desires.
This definition has a far-reaching consequence: decreasing one's desires increases one's wealth, and one who achieves the Buddhist nirvana (the abolition of all desires) becomes infinitely wealthy.
Others are, of course, free to reject my defintion. :-)
October 25, 2008 2:13 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yes CT, that is entirely so. That's when a single pine needle holds the wealth of the entire universe...
October 25, 2008 4:54 PM | Reply | Permalink
I have a better (I believe) definition: wealth is the ability to achieve one's desires
I would say that power and they are not equivalent
October 25, 2008 6:58 PM | Reply | Permalink
I would say that "power" is the subset of "wealth" that applies to "the ability to get people to do what you want without the use of monetary rewards". When you use money (by which I mean any "medium of exchange") you are using the kind of wealth most people refer to most of the time when they use the unqualified word "wealth", but there are other kinds (usually qualified). For instance, there is genetic wealth, which results in good health and/or a long life, vs genetic poverty. One can have a wealth of friendships, which is sort of a soft version of political power, or a wealth of "political capital" that gives one political power. All of these are forms of that nebulous thing I call "wealth".
October 25, 2008 8:05 PM | Reply | Permalink
That's because contrary to popular belief wealth is not created at all. Wealth is merely a measure of status bestowed upon an individual in various ways by the rest of society. Wealth provides privilege and is the key to power over others. It is a finite entity. Democracy is the great "equalizer" in the hypothetical sense. It mediates the struggles for power and allows peace to flourish and civilization to exist. These arguments are as old as civilization. You'd think we would learn but alas it's not going to happen.
October 25, 2008 1:00 AM | Reply | Permalink
True; but individuals need not wait for society to "bestow" status upon them. They can buy it with that other type of "wealth" -- i.e., cash.
So, let's return to talking about who's got the gelt and whether we should let them keep it.
October 25, 2008 1:12 AM | Reply | Permalink
I equate wealth with utility. Period. Clear enough for you?
October 25, 2008 1:26 AM | Reply | Permalink
But, wealth is dependent on utility. Ask the Chief of the tribe.
October 25, 2008 1:37 AM | Reply | Permalink
I think the problem of calculating how useful a person is in creating wealth is not an insurmountable problem and is not an occasion to despair and embrace fictitious paper schemes such as we have been engaging in with Greenspan and Bernake.
October 25, 2008 1:46 AM | Reply | Permalink
I think we're thinking along similar lines.
October 25, 2008 2:04 AM | Reply | Permalink
I meant is not dependent....
October 25, 2008 2:03 AM | Reply | Permalink
The chinese philosopher Mo Zi would be your best friend. ;o)
October 25, 2008 2:09 AM | Reply | Permalink
As Such Adam Smith might have written a prior book called "The Wealth of Nature" describing the wonder of the abundance of fresh air and oxygen around the planet.
Wealth if equated with utility is not equated with such social artifacts as money and Credit Default Swaps. Nature is full of Wealth.
October 25, 2008 2:23 AM | Reply | Permalink
I guilty I guess. I'm defining wealth narrowly as token of power or privilege in the capitalists sense. Obviously, as you point, out the word is a metaphor for many things. I'm sorry. I'm not trying to be snarky either, it's just that this is a very serious topic for me.
October 25, 2008 2:34 AM | Reply | Permalink
Presuming that humans have the same powers of intellection across societies, then, "wealth" equals the capital held by society -- that is, knowledge, infrastructure, machines, legally enforceable rules, and those societal values which increase efficiency (personal honesty, networking, absence of class, race, and gender bias).
How society would go about identifying and rewarding those who increase that capital -- that "wealth" -- is the subject of this thread -- and we haven't gotten very far.
October 25, 2008 8:47 AM | Reply | Permalink
I might add that "wealth" is not created by laborers who, whether white, pink, blue, or brown collared, are accurately described as ants, drudges, drones, and sheep.
"Wealth" is created by human imagination ("inventors") whose products and procedures are deployed within society only insofar as some members of that society are willing to defer gratification ("savers").
Example: a new highway which adds to infrastructure. It is built not by the firm which bid on it or the workers who worked on it. It is built by the "savers" who paid for it.
October 25, 2008 9:10 AM | Reply | Permalink
You make an assumption that those who labor are distinct from those who innovate and imagine.
October 25, 2008 10:42 AM | Reply | Permalink
Yes, I do.
While the drones and drudges do, on occasion, produce on-the-job ideas that add to "wealth," these ideas are few and modest in effect. For purposes of discussion they can be disregarded.
October 25, 2008 11:44 AM | Reply | Permalink
Well Ellen, I'd argue that ideas alone are worthless without the "drones and drudges" to carry them out.
Everyone has great ideas, they're like bodily orifices..
October 25, 2008 11:53 AM | Reply | Permalink
I suppose the next thing you'll be telling us is that it's the bat that hit Barry Bonds' home runs.
October 25, 2008 12:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
....and you'll be saying he could do it without the bat. He just needs to think of the concept of hitting home runs to be successful?
Yeah, whatev
October 25, 2008 12:05 PM | Reply | Permalink
Ya know, maybe you're right. In which case, Bonds should have to give up 90% of his salary to the guy that "invented" baseball, or since he's dead, his heirs. After all, the only thing Bonds did was swing the bat.
Right?
October 25, 2008 12:37 PM | Reply | Permalink
Those courageous and inventive individuals who thought of and developed the pharmaceuticals that Bonds used should get at least half of the credit. I salute them!
October 25, 2008 1:13 PM | Reply | Permalink