Joe the Ringer?
Joe the Plumber is, it seems, a registered Republican. (Hat tip to Ben Smith of Politico, who got the item from the Toledo Blade.) Moreover, according to the logical Jed L at Daily Kos, he wasn't undecided either:
Speaking with Katie Couric, "Joe" said that he "wasn't swayed" by the debate last night, yet pretty much knew who he was going to vote for. So if (a) he wasn't swayed by the debate and (b) knows who he is going to vote for, then (c) he had already made up his mind before the debate.
Anyway, whether Joe is on the level or not, my sister-in-law, Karen Cook Velasti, makes this interesting point :
Tell Joe the plumber that a business without customers will fail no matter how little or how much he pays in taxes. If people are out of jobs, they won't be able to pay him for repairing his kitchen sink. However, if Joe the middle-class-man or Josephine the middle-class-woman get some of their tax money back or don't have to worry about medical bills, they might be able to hire him for that bathroom renovation they have been putting off.
P. S. Are you sitting down? Joe the Plumber is now reported to be related to the son-in-law of the former senior vice president of American Continental, the parent company of the bank you may have heard of, Lincoln Savings and Loan, owned by a fellow named Charles Keating. But if so it's OK, I guess, because he's not related to Bill Ayers.
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And it seems he probably owns several businesses already and his dad spent time in jail over Keating.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/10/16/02217/845
http://www.eisenstadtgroup.com/2008/10/15/joe-the-plumber-wurzelbacher-related-to-charles-keating-oops/
Joe the plumber could come back to bite McCain in a big way ... by making people talk about Keating again.
October 16, 2008 11:34 AM | Reply | Permalink
Hum, McCain doesn't seem to be very good at vetting people.
=D
October 16, 2008 11:43 AM | Reply | Permalink
Is Joe even a Plumber? Only a plumbing CONTRACTOR makes $250000 or more a year--you know, the guys that do the plumbing installs on new high rise office buildings.
I can guarantee you that the guy who comes to replace the element in your hot water tank or unclog your toilet is making less than 75k a year.
October 16, 2008 11:39 AM | Reply | Permalink
he said to katie couric(?) that he doesn't make $250K.
my guess is he probably doesn't make half that but like so many people who vote republican imagine that he'll magically start making that much if we just keep lowering the taxes of people who already make that much.
October 16, 2008 12:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
fkaZ,
Bill Gates is worth $50 Billion and I don't think he should pay taxes because some day I might be worth $50 billion too.
October 18, 2008 2:57 PM | Reply | Permalink
Apparently he's not liscensed as a plumber or a plumber's apprentice at all. If he's working as a plumber under the table, he couldn't be making more than $30K/yr.
October 16, 2008 6:15 PM | Reply | Permalink
It occurred to me the guy is a ringer. He looks like he'd be related to someone from Cleveland Pat Buchanan defended.
But plumbers are not a popular profession. No one has sympathy for plumbers. You're never happy when you need one, they're never there when you want them, then they charge you an arm and a leg when they finally show up.
And you have see their butt crack when they work.
Not appealing..
October 16, 2008 12:05 PM | Reply | Permalink
Joe may do plumbing work but not as a licensed one, it turns out!
Poor Joe, all this attention may mess up his job.
Lesson #1: pose questions honestly to presidential candidates.
Lesson #2: if you are a Republican, try even harder to act on lesson #1
Joe's quote of the day: ''I'm kind of like Britney Spears having a headache. Everybody wants to know about it,'' he joked.
(Yes, Joe, you're just like Spears, except that what's revealed while she works under the sink might look better. AND her whistling while she works would DEFINITELY sound better than you, Joe )
Enjoy your 15 minutes...
October 16, 2008 4:13 PM | Reply | Permalink
Of COURSE Joe the Plumber is going to relate to McCain. They BOTH sling shit for a living.
October 16, 2008 12:13 PM | Reply | Permalink
You can really tell that Joe teh Plumber is an R-plant. Doncha know that all teh undecided independents have a great hatred of Social Security?
October 16, 2008 12:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
Maybe Joe the Plumber was one of those guys Nixon used, like Donald Segretti the Plumber.
October 16, 2008 12:36 PM | Reply | Permalink
Ah, yes, Segretti, who just happened to be the co-chair of McCain's presidential campaign in Orange County, CA in 2000.
Speaking of plumbers, and terrorist associations, Obama was too cool to engage in the terrorist-baiting, however, McCain's own unrepentant terrorist associate is none other than convicted felon G. Gordon Liddy.
October 16, 2008 2:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
Both Atwater and Rove apprenticed under Segretti.
October 16, 2008 3:29 PM | Reply | Permalink
how is he a 'plant'???
obama was campaigning in his neighborhood so he asked obama some 'tough questions'/republican talking points.
he isn't a plant, he's just a disingenuous mccain supporter who is as ignorant as mccain about obama's tax and health care plans.
October 16, 2008 1:09 PM | Reply | Permalink
Belligerant Ignorance + Hateful Lying = Republican.
October 16, 2008 1:29 PM | Reply | Permalink
I guess 'useful idiot' would have been more on the mark. My skepticism is regarding the presentation of this guy as an undecided average middle-American.
October 16, 2008 2:29 PM | Reply | Permalink
When "Joe the Plumber" was confronted with the fact that he's unlicensed -- in violation of law -- he responded, in effort to intimidate, that the questioner was "messing with" his income.
Being Republican, he isn't concerned with his "messing with" the rule of law.
October 17, 2008 7:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
Would Republicans go to all the trouble of putting a plant at an Obama rally just to set up an attack for McCain?
Hehe I jest, of course they would.
October 16, 2008 12:27 PM | Reply | Permalink
I just wish Obama had mentioned that Joe Plumber would be a patriot if he was willing to pay his fair share of Dubya's deficit off with his $250,000 in gross profit.
October 16, 2008 12:27 PM | Reply | Permalink
Or if that doesn't ring well, just a simple "if you are making $250,000 in profit after all busineess expenses Joe, you're doing pretty well and you shouldn't be as worried about a tax increase as much as your employees should be. Under my plan your employees get the tax break.
October 16, 2008 12:31 PM | Reply | Permalink
yes. much better.
October 16, 2008 1:10 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yeh, so bite me Joe. Go and vote for the old fart. You deserve each other. Now run along and go suck sewage.
October 16, 2008 1:43 PM | Reply | Permalink
There's MORE breaking info on this phony.
Apparently he:
1. has an outstanding tax lien of nearly $1200.
2. Has a BROTHER who lives in - wait for it - Wasilla, AK!!!!!
http://theobfuscationreport.blogspot.com/2008/10/joe-plumber-nope-joe-tax-dodger.html
October 16, 2008 12:29 PM | Reply | Permalink
HEY! I'm an electrician, what am I, chopped liver????
October 16, 2008 12:30 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hey, I've been waiting for the Electrician, or someone like him!
October 16, 2008 12:58 PM | Reply | Permalink
How Can Joe-the-Plumber be in Two Places at Once When He's Not Anywhere at All?
October 16, 2008 1:32 PM | Reply | Permalink
You sound like a graduate of More Science High...
October 16, 2008 1:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
Nope: Communist Martyr's.
October 17, 2008 7:49 PM | Reply | Permalink
c4,
if you really do need an electrician, DO NOT call any you find in the Yellow Pages that use full page ads.
October 16, 2008 6:06 PM | Reply | Permalink
HaHa. Not THAT kind of electrician. THE Electrician, the one who takes care of the Terminal Bus!
October 16, 2008 8:15 PM | Reply | Permalink
c4,
your bus is dying?
October 17, 2008 8:04 AM | Reply | Permalink
I Think SOME of Us are All Bozos on This Bus.
October 17, 2008 7:54 PM | Reply | Permalink
"1. has an outstanding tax lien of nearly $1200.
2. Has a BROTHER who lives in - wait for it - Wasilla, AK!!!!!"
Just a coincidence gosh darnit.
LOL. : )
October 16, 2008 12:34 PM | Reply | Permalink
Joe the Plumber Admits Ulterior Motive in Backing McCain
http://satiricalpolitical.com/?p=4039
October 16, 2008 12:36 PM | Reply | Permalink
http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/washington/AP-Joe-the-Plumber.html
Joe is an unlicensed plumber.
October 16, 2008 12:45 PM | Reply | Permalink
Right. And he was represented, even by himself, as wanting to buy the business -- as if he's all ready to do so, but may be hesitant because of Obama's tax plan.
Turns out he isn't even PREPARED to buy the business with, like, a business plan, let alone with the money.
The most of it: he and the owner have "talked about" the owner giving up the buisness "someday".
If he gets to take over the business, will be blame the Democrats when his lack of planning and foresight result in failure?
October 16, 2008 1:37 PM | Reply | Permalink
he doesn't even have a plumber's license to be able to do plumbing work on his own let alone be the contractor/owner.
the guy isn't a plumber. he's a laborer who works for a guy who might be a plumber.
October 16, 2008 1:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
Maybe next they will go to the airport and talk to a baggage handler who's dream to become a pilot is deferred, because he can't afford to buy the airline under Obama's tax plan.
October 16, 2008 2:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
Dave,
HAHAHAHAHA. :-)
October 17, 2008 10:12 AM | Reply | Permalink
Just a hunch, but I'll bet the McCain camp's response to this will be, 'He doesn't have a license because of the huge government bureaucracy.'
October 16, 2008 4:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
No one seems to have considered that Joe the Plumber may be confusing gross revenues with taxable income. Since the average licensed plumber in the U.S. makes less than $60,000, it's possible that a plumber could gross $300,000 before expenses of operation (salaries, supplies, travel, etc.)
I saw the comments above about Joe's Republican connections, and also about his outstanding tax lien. It's possible he is not confusing gross revenue with taxable income, but is deliberately obscuring the difference.
--Dean L. Surkin
October 16, 2008 12:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'm ready to go anywhere, I'm ready for to fade
Into my own my parade, cast your dancing spell my way
I promise to go under it
October 16, 2008 1:01 PM | Reply | Permalink
Dylan said if you grow your hair there's more room for your brains. Note Joe's hairdo.
October 17, 2008 12:48 AM | Reply | Permalink
Yeah but he was thinking of Samson, you know, the one who, if he had his way, would tear this Temple down...
October 17, 2008 7:54 AM | Reply | Permalink
I think it's possible Joe the Plumber is confusing a lot of things. He doesn't seem too bright.
October 16, 2008 1:02 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hmm. Joe says the business consists of the owner and him (but he's not licensed) and earns more than $250K a year. Let's be generous and include Joe's salary in those earnings, even though they mean that his boss is earning less than $250K, and actually wouldn't be hit by the tax increase he's complaining about.
If these guys are billing 40 hours a week each, they're averaging a profit of $63 an hour, after paying the cost of tools and equipment, health care, office space, blah blah blah. And I don't know a plumber or contractor anywhere who bills 40 hours a week 50 weeks a year in this economy.
I wouldn't be surprised if Joe's boss and Joe do well over $250K of business over the course of a year, and pull down decent wages as a result. But Joe has, as he say in the AP story, a lot to learn if he thinks that $250K gross gets you anywhere neat $250K net. He might be a plant, but he might also just be a dupe -- one of the millions of americans who think they're going to strike it rich someday and so give their allegiance to a party dedicated to making sure they never will.
October 16, 2008 1:05 PM | Reply | Permalink
Maybe there's more tax evasion going on than has so far been discovered, and what "Joe the Plumber" is worried about is either that there will be greater scrutiny on that point under Obama, or that the amount of unpaid taxes will be greater per year than at present. Or both.
October 17, 2008 7:59 PM | Reply | Permalink
I always wondered what would happen if the WHOLE American public ever realized the FULL extent to which an Information War has been waged against them, and a false concensus reality created.
Would anybody's liver get paraded around on a stick?
Or would that interfere with Desperate Housewives?
October 16, 2008 1:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
c4,
truly.
Karl Rove to Cheney; ' the more we do to them the less they believe we're doing it.'
October 16, 2008 6:55 PM | Reply | Permalink
that toledo blade article has quite a bit of information on 'joe'. i like this bit:
Court records from a divorce show Mr. Wurzelbacher made $40,000 in 2006.
so naturally he supports a flat tax!!
nincompoop sez: i'd rather be even poorer than i am now than continue to enjoy any of the benefits of our mixed economy that includes a progressive tax structure.
October 16, 2008 1:37 PM | Reply | Permalink
Todd.
David Foster Wallace - God rest his soul - had Mccain pegged back in 2000 in his article for Rolling Stone "UP SIMBA!" about the 2000 GOP primary.
Wouldn't you know it, in a town hall meeting he - by 'chance' mind you - just happened to call on a woman who just happened to have a son who was dismayed and 'shocked' by a Bush robocall.
Jeez - what are the chances of that random incident?
October 16, 2008 1:40 PM | Reply | Permalink
oh my goodness. i had not heard that dfw had died. ugh. that's terrible.
October 16, 2008 1:56 PM | Reply | Permalink
According to AP, he works for Newell Plumbing and Heating, the company he wants to buy.
Guess what?
The company earns $100,000 a year according to this (a href="http://www.manta.com/coms2/dnbcompany_cc5ny2n">website.
I guess he wouldn't be too hurt by Obama's tax plan after all!!
October 16, 2008 1:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
Don't believe anything you read on that site-- according to them, my little home-based business brings in more than 30 times what I'm actually earning. All manta.com does is collect data from public records (like fictitious business name filings) and post it. They just make up figures for annual income, apparently.
October 16, 2008 10:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
The link to Joe the Ringer's company is http://www.manta.com/coms2/dnbcompany_cc5ny2n
October 16, 2008 1:54 PM | Reply | Permalink
more good stuff from the blade article:
Mr. Wulzerbacher’s notoriety has raised the ire of Tom Joseph, business manager for Local 50 of the United Association of Plumbers, Steamfitters, and Service Mechanics, who claimed that Mr. Wulzerbacher didn’t undergo any apprenticeship training.
"When you have guys going out there with no training whatsoever, it’s a little disreputable to start with," Mr. Joseph said. "We’re the real Joe the Plumber."
Mr. Joseph said Mr. Wulzerbacher could only legally work in the townships, but not in any municipality in Lucas County or elsewhere in the country.
"This individual has got no schooling, no licenses, he’s never been to a training program, union or non-union, in the United States of America," Mr. Joseph said.
October 16, 2008 2:06 PM | Reply | Permalink
and this:
Linda Howe, executive director of the Lucas County Board of Elections, said a Samuel Joseph Worzelbacher, whose address and age match Joe the Plumber’s, registered in Lucas County on Sept. 10, 1992. He voted in his first primary on March 4 of this year, registering as a Republican.
Ms. Howe said that the name may be misspelled in the database.
------
so the ohio republicans will probably make sure he's purged from the voting rolls, right?
October 16, 2008 2:08 PM | Reply | Permalink
Not that I have anything against plumbers nor do I begrudge them making a decent living but I do not recall them being the most popular and trusted trade person in the neighborhood as far as folk lore goes.
This seems like part of an ad campaign targeting self-identified victims of their own illusions about how the world works.
October 16, 2008 2:15 PM | Reply | Permalink
If you took away all the 'delusional' types who are barely getting by but vote GOP - you're talking about a tiny minority - maybe one percent of the populace - who are 'ratonal' Republicans.
October 16, 2008 2:44 PM | Reply | Permalink
I would extend this to small trade business persons of all parties. Those that succeed do not sound like this guy. They know their competitors face the same cost and price structure and will succeed by doing what they do well and building up a clientele. If Joe had any brains, he'd realize that Social Security helps ensure that his customers can afford his services and provides stability for his business that is independent of the immediate state of the economy.
October 16, 2008 3:32 PM | Reply | Permalink
I just can't help but be amazed that Republican's weaknesses always seem to boil down to a plumber...from Nixon to McCain...now if we could only find out who takes care of Chenny's pipes.
OK OK I admit 'm feeling snarky today
October 16, 2008 2:27 PM | Reply | Permalink
The only reason Cheney is alive today is because he is the vice-president. There is, and never will be, unlimited capacity to treat cardiac patients who reach a crisis point. If Cheney was an ordinary citizen, his priority for surgical resources would be pretty low given the amount of prior work and general condition of his cardiac system. The state of the art is such that he is pretty much guaranteed survival if he can make it to the surgery.
You are probably not being as snarky as you might think. It may be true that some have died waiting in the queue because Cheney got first dibs.
October 16, 2008 3:08 PM | Reply | Permalink
Let's take Josephine the Waitress, Joe Sixpack, and Joe the Plumber, take the dismissive insult contained in each name, and drop it from our political discourse. What do we have to do, have a 3 day old beard and work with a vertical smile up our butts to be considered an average American worker? Joe the Plumber supposedly makes $250,000 per year, which sound pretty good to me. What about Edward the Engineer, or Leonard the Lawyer who are taking home about 60,000 annually? Are they of lesser concern because they are professionals? Just treat people fairly and save us from the condescending symbolism, and everything will fall into place neatly. BTW, I think the plumber was picked because his earnings number of $250K is at the threshhold of Barack Obama's tax proposal which would stop anyone making below $250K from having to pay any tax increase.
October 16, 2008 3:44 PM | Reply | Permalink
So Joe the Plumber is really Sam the Unlicensed Plumber. Either way he'll get his own reality show on Cable.
October 16, 2008 4:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
Sex Scandals Continue to Rock GOP: Joe the Plumber Formerly ‘Josephine’
http://satiricalpolitical.com/?p=4051
October 16, 2008 4:58 PM | Reply | Permalink
Well, he DIDN'T lie. The debate didn't sway him.
He hasn't been swayed since he first admitted to being a "ditto head" and allowing Rush Limbaugh to fill his massive, shiny cranium with as much conservative rhetoric as would fit in (approx 2 full gallons!).
http://thetruthburns.wordpress.com/2008/10/16/joe-the-plumber-in-middle-class-denial/
October 16, 2008 7:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
Non-partisan tax groups even admit that 'Joe the Plummer' would get a tax break not a tax hike under an Obama tax plan; also it was reported this afternoon that 'Joe the Plummer' OWES THE STATE OF OHIO an estimated $12,000 in back taxes.
October 16, 2008 8:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
I think the relatedness (what precise relation?) to the Keating thing is just a simple reminder of what a small world it is after all.
October 17, 2008 9:09 AM | Reply | Permalink
Joe may or may not have been a plant. The issue arose because our candidate engaged him in a seemingly innocent debate. Candidates seldom win debates with voters -- especially when those debates are covered, or even worse partially covered, by media with an axe to grind.
The only safe response to the Joes of the world would be, "No, I just don't think so." Then ask a question about how voter feels about say the economy, if possible agree with the answer and go on to the next voter. A candidate could not carry on such a conversation with Joe the plant. A GOP plant would try to force an answer to a "no win" question.
I admire Obama and his discipline so much. That Joe was able to sneak in under the radar shows just how difficult the campaign is for a candidate who wants human contact with voters.
October 18, 2008 11:00 AM | Reply | Permalink
I think the more interesting question is whether McCain ASKED "Joe the Plumber" for permission to use his name in the debate. I doubt it's a legal issue, but if he didn't ask then using his name that way was a thoughtless, hurtful, thing to do. McCain is a major league politician: he and his campaign knew the media frenzy that his use of Joe's name would cause. How many of you would like your life exposed to the world that way? It just seems wrong to me.
P.S., I thought that Obama's answers to Joe's questions were pretty darn good.
October 18, 2008 3:12 PM | Reply | Permalink