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Who Likes To Pay Taxes?

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Maybe it's asking too much for any political candidate to make a defense of paying taxes in the heat of a tough campaign, but it struck me, in listening to the Presidential Debate tonight, that Barack Obama missed a chance to talk about the role of government in a positive fashion.

When the issue of raising taxes came up, Obama said that he doesn't like paying taxes, after all, who does? But what he didn't say is: But we need to pay taxes, to have a healthy tax base, to pay for the things that we all care about like public safety (Police, Fire), public education (alright, not everyone cares about this-but the case should be made), trash collection, infrastructure (like collapsing bridges and highways), food safety, national defense, and more.

Part of the Obama campaign has been about a defense of government--and in the midst of this financial crisis we can see where complete lapse of government has gotten us--but he shouldn't shirk making the argument. In the end, the only way for progressives to move things forward is to defend the role of government and the need to fund government, in a progressive manner (i.e., progressive taxation, which Obama has argued for).


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I agree. The public is simply not aware of ALL the things that government does for them on a local state and federal level. You have to look at the scale and scope of some of these responsibilities to appreciate how much govt actually does, and does very well. That is not to say that there are not reforms needed or improvements to be made. But government gets a bad rap--and everybody seems to think that all these services can be provided for free.

They cannot. And these basic services provide the foundation on which capitalist enterprises are then able to thrive.

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I believe Obama tried at one point, but McCain interrupted. Will have to look at the tape.

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It's sad that this same point needs to be made over and over and over and over and over; and that it's always like a new wound every time we hear it. Some gov't good, too much gov't bad, too little gov't bad. Services have to be paid for, taxes pay for services. Find a balance.

And what's with the same moderator question every debate: given the current economic crisis and your previously announced plans, what are you going to have to cut? Answer: How the hell can any us know? The economy tanks more a differently every single day, let's see what's left when we actually get to the white house.

Oh the babies, the babies.

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Where Obama missed the boat was everytime McCain said he was going to take care of children, take care of special needs people and that kind of stuff -- was to comeback forcefully with: "And just how do you intend to pay for that John."

But you are right. We want our pot holes fixed, the ordinaces and laws enforced, our school to get its share of the money, our country defended and bail us out of a financial mess. But - we always vote to cut taxes. Only ours not theirs. Cut programs but not ours only those other guys.

No one realizes that what is pork to them is bread and butter to someone else. Cut thier pork but not mine.

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This is a VERY good point for Obama to make - starting November 5.

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This is one that Obama should have been ready for and nailed-- Corporate Taxes. From the Washington Post "Fact Check" of the Debate:

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/fact-checker/?hpid=topnews

Taxes
9:58 p.m.
John McCain made two assertions on corporate taxes, one that small businesses pay 50 percent of the taxes and the other that U.S. corporations are among the highest taxed in the world. Both are wrong.

All corporate income taxes--including giant corporations and the smallest of businesses--account for only about 14 percent of federal revenues raised in the year, according to the Congressional Budget Office. Most federal taxes are paid by individuals, while fees and other taxes make up the rest.

While the official corporate tax is high, compared to other countries, there are so many loopholes in the code that many companies pay little or no taxes. The General Accounting Office reported recently that more than half of U.S. corporations paid no federal income taxes during the boom years of the late 1990s, and those that did were able to shelter much of their income, generally by claiming deductions and credits.

The GAO report showed that 61 percent of U.S. corporations paid no federal income taxes from 1996 through 2000, a period of rapid economic growth and rising corporate profits.

An estimated 94 percent of U.S. corporations reported tax liabilities amounting to less than 5 percent of their total income in 2000. Indeed, small corporations were more likely to avoid taxation than large ones, the GAO said.
--Glenn Kessler

The Post could have added that US Corporate taxes are lower today than at any time since WWII.

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Good post. This is a great scalpel to take to McCain's bogus appeal.

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I thought Obama's pronouncement that no one likes to pay taxes was exactly the right opening statement. Conservatives often caricature liberals as socialists, or as Marxists, who'd love to give their every cent to the Government. What Obama missed was the follow-up statement that whatever services we decide we want the government to provide we should expect to pay for them via taxes.

The debate between conservatives and liberals used to be about exactly what services the Gov't should or shouldn't provide. Ever since Reagan, however, the debate has been more about what the tax levels should be, rather than about what the services should be.

What Reagan ushered in was the reduction of taxes (primarily benefiting the rich), while increasing Gov't spending on contracts to private corporations - wildly increasing the Federal deficit, and enabling the rich to get richer two ways).

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Great point. We have destroyed the essential tension between conservative and liberal means to a common sense set of goals for the entire nation. Now we can't even agree on the goals, let alone how to get there. The social compact has been thoroughly corrupted - in order for me to win, you have to lose. That's no way to run a country.

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Long time reader of TPM, first time writer.

I just joined because I badly want to get heard on this point: Joe Plumber doesn’t understand NET versus GROSS.

Obama needs to be making this distinction – “Joe, regardless of what your BUSINESS makes, until YOU are taking home 250K, you will not have your taxes increased.”

Not true that this is not an important constituency. There are millions of small business owners across the country that need to hear this distinction and don’t understand it.

I am a small business owner and I can tell you most plumbers (I am a contractor, so close enough) don’t get the tax code -- especially if they’ve been W2 their whole lives.

On Public Radio recently, a small business owner called in to say that his restaurant grossed 300K but little of it made it's way into his paycheck. He assumed that because he was grossing 300K that he was above Senator Obama's 250K cut-off for no tax increases.

The show's host did not correct the misunderstanding and I don't believe he understood correctly either.

Whether or not Obama understands this– he’s certainly not getting the point out to this constituency.

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Joe Biden made the statement a week or so ago that 'paying taxes is patriotic'. I whole heartily agree with that. We live in the greatest country in the world, but we are slowly (or not so slowly) losing that position.

Phil Graham said this is a 'whiners' recession. I think the rich need to take that advise to heart and pay their share of taxes back to the country that gave them the opportunity to make that money in the first place. And then suck it up and go out and make more money, create more jobs and pay more taxes to fix schools, health care, roads and bridges, etc....

I used to be a die-hard republican, but I switched 4 years ago after I saw what Bush/Cheny and the rich were doing to this great country.

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