What kind of an idiot goes before AIPAC and comes out for an undivided Jerusalem? And then attempts to retract it as depending on negotiation between the parties?

Jews I need hardly say are well educated and for any body who is remotely familiar with the Mideast situation a statement like that should have started multiple alarm bells ringing before it was spoken.

Similarly, Obama aggravated the situation with Pakistan by announcing that he would violate Pakistani sovereignity if need be.

Unclear and provocative statements are not the hall mark of mature judgment and an ability to bring people together.

Pandering statements of that type are a hallmark of a politician desperate to get elected and lacking in principle.

The division in Jewish support may not fall along liberal versus conservative lines with respect to Obama but rather on clear sighted realism versus wishful thinking about who Obama is.

"Key West resident Joelna Marcus received a phone call today. She was asked if she is Jewish, and she replied in the affirmative.

She was asked if she was religious.

She was then asked if her opinion of Barack Obama would change if she knew that Obama had given lots and lots of money to the PLO."

SOURCE- http://www.crooksandliars.com/2008/09/15/rovian-push-polling-in-florida-links-obama-to-plo

"It suggests that Jews are seriously divided: that the vast majority, around 70%... want to see the US pressure Israelis and Palestinians into a peace deal; while our most prominent Jewish leaders, in AIPAC, the Council of Presidents, and the World Jewish Congress, tend to promote the agenda of the 20-25% who identify with conservative politics, and would never vote for Obama no matter what he does."

Avishai

Where the hell do you get the idea, you stupid jerk, that 70% of American Jews favor "pressure" on Israel to make concessions to Hamas. Let J Street run a poll that asks American Jewish respondents if they would favor a cutoff of U.S. economic and military aid to Israel--aid that J Street says it supports--if Israel does not accept an American imposed peace plan. What percentage of respondents in such a poll would agree with that--10, 20, 30? You don't know what you are talking about.

Why don't you take the next El Al flight back to Lod, go and live in Ramallah, and do your idiotic blogging from that veritable peaceful democracy.

I am a proud AIPAC member and have given more to Barack Obama than 98% of his contributors. I did so because I am a lifelong Democrat, convinced that Barack Obama and the people around him understand what happened to that asshole Carter in 1980, and I am confident that he won't do likewise if he becomes President (and besides Joe Biden would quit as V.P. if he ever tried to). AIPAC leadership isn't on a collision course with the vast majority of American Jews--it's on a collision course with feckless naifs like you and Rosenberg and Levy who think the way to stop Hamas and Hezbollah from killing Israelis is to play nice. WELL FUCK THAT!

Forgive me if I double post because I was responding to AJM's comment and I think I lost it in the editing phase.

My anecdotal evidence and "Jewdar" tells me that there will be little if any erosion of the traditional overwhelming support in the Jewish community for the Democratic candidate. I get that from Mom and Dad and their merry band of Florida retirees down at the ole' Wynmoor Village in Coconut Creek, Florida (just north of Fort Lauderdale in the belly of the beast of Jewish retirement heaven). They smell bad stuff in the economy and my Dad, who more than most other Jews of his generation, has pulled the GOP lever, is one of those folks who is outraged by the selection of Governor Palin and is convinced that we need to change course this year. I see no erosion down in the Sunshine State (although I'm skeptical that's going to give us Florida)

Up here on the Upper Westside in the center of the world, you won't find a McCain button for miles of course. Out on Long Island, my old 6:30 a.m. minyan buddies are, by and large, going to vote for McCain, but they're a minority and they're the guys who voted for the GOP in 2000 and 2004. No change there.

The moral of the story: folks like MJ Rosenberg can make believe that he is the only enlightened Jewish guy who recognizes the right of Israel to exist and doesn't hate black people at the same time (I focus on MJ because that's who Josh has slotted to opine on all things Israel and Jewish and he has said some pretty harsh things about the people whom he makes a living off of), but most of my brothers and sisters in the American Jewish community know which way to go this November (even those who have been to Israel on one of those packaged tours ;)). I say 74 percent of the American Jewish community goes with Obama, and that's not bad for a bunch of scared, ignorant Israel-first bigots, as guys like MJ likes to suggest so many of us are.

And that is not all I have to say about that!

It is fair to say that in "attitude to Israel", there is scant difference between Democrats and Republicans, there is some difference in "approach", and scant evidence that McCain's approach is better.

So other issues will matter more to the majority of Jews. Economical status may pull them toward GOP, education -- away, "social issues", away, away, away.

As far as "pressuring Israel" is concerned, this is a subtle issue. Inside Israel, there is a majority that would favor more accomodation with Palestinians, but without much fervor, plus a large and fervent opposition. The majority could welcome "pressure". For example, pressure to dismantle settlements that Israel's government regards as illegal -- but supports even so.

Bernard:

I have been meaning to come back to the issue you raise in your post concerning whether we are poised on some kind of collision course involving progressive Jews and "mainstream" Jewish organizations. I will assume for the sake of argument that AIPAC et al. are at odds with the vast majority of the American Jewish community that votes Democratic. This is a reality, however, that did not come to fruition during the instant election cycle, but rather is reflective of a disconnect between most major Jewish organizations and American Jews for quite some time I'd submit. Indeed, I've been hearing about and candidly agreeing that there is a need for a new course etc. etc. since I was a teenager in the 70s.

So why has there not been the type of collision you predict? The answer is one of trust I think, and that is that, given the desires of most American Jews for a more "even-handed" approach to Middle East affairs, there is a vacuum between the devil the rank and file knows (i.e. AIPAC et al.) versus the devils the rank and file don't know and don't trust. That is, the J Street Projects of the world are few and far between and have not sent an alternative message that resonates with most American Jews who think about Israel.

The American Jewish community, or a great swath of it, is in need of members of its own community who convey a real understanding and respect for the affinity that American Jews have for the State of Israel. They need to know they can trust the folks who say that Israel can and does do wrong and lots of it. The folks on the left for the most part don't fit that bill; the Jewish left lacks voices that reach out and do not ridicule their more conventional Jewish brothers and sisters.

Like all American voters who vote with their gut for the politicians they think they can trust, American Jews react in the same way. It's all about trust, and the alternative Jewish voices can and should come to terms with this reality at some point.

Thanks for your thought-provoking and rationally presented post. I think you get the need for the trust that I'm talking about.

Bruce

How do you say "Yes, We Can" in Yiddish?

They say "Ms Tzipi Livni had run a successful Barack Obama-style campaign as the candidate for change, while Mr Mofaz was seen as less likely to commit to any of the compromises that backers of a swift peace accord deem necessary to end decades of conflict."

"Male rivals have called Livni "weak" and "that woman." And there is talk about ultra-Orthodox Jewish lawmakers being uncomfortable with the idea of a female leader. Livni has played down the gender issue. "The fact that I'm a woman doesn't make me a weak leader," she told the Jerusalem Post last week. "I have no problem pulling the trigger when necessary."