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Very few

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Very few people repeat untruths and misstatements over and over. When they do, they have to be held to intend to mislead, conceal, or deceive. So then we can call their untruths by the word "lies."

Why should Americans not choose liars as their leaders? Everyone in any walk of life will from time to time say something that isn't perfectly true. On minor matters, or when there's an innocent explanation, we overlook such behavior.

But when those who seek leadership positions lie about (1) important matters, like their own attitudes toward government waste or national security or the economy or global warming or education or the First Amendment, and (2) their only possible motive is a desire to deceive their countrymen (since they've been informed that their statements are inaccurate), then we know they are not qualified to lead.

A democracy cannot survive with inveterate liars in high office. Nor can our culture: as Americans we want truth-telling to be the standard set on high for all to observe and emulate.

What's more, no one can be sure that when in leadership positions liars will know or report the truth. Do they know how to assess reality, how to analyze options accurately, how to present objective choices for decision by themselves or others? If they lie to others, maybe they lie to themselves?

When someone says he or she is qualified to lead because they are "tough" or they "don't blink" or otherwise are firm and vigorous in pursuit of their goals, we can choose to admire this self-confidence. But suppose they really mean they are unblinkingly willing to lie, and are tough enough to try to deceive all of us all of the time? Perhaps their protestations of firmness indicate only that they have sheer contempt for the decision-making of others, and will lie to obtain trust. Then unblinking confidence is the confidence of the con-man, the trickster, the flim-flam artist. Who wants to be led by such a person, whether they are in great office or small, on the battlefield or in the boardroom? You can't expect to have your interests be respected by someone who will lie to you.

And when the Mainstream Media overlooks lying by our leaders or would-be leaders about important matters, coupled with what appears to be a heinous motive for that lying, then that Media really lets down the country.


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I have thought about this long and hard, and analyzed the dialogues I have had with 'the other side'. It is a collision of values and frames of reference. We see the search of objective truth and objective 'fact' to be among the highest aspirations. They see allegence to a trusted leader to be the highest aspiration. If the trusted leader says they told congress no thanks, you can take it to the bank. Every democrat, liberal, or journalist who shows evidence to the contrary is simply blinded by their own political prejudice--and they are not to be trusted because they are not the annointed bearers of Truth.

Many of these people believe in the infallibility of the Bible, which, if one has spent any time acquainting ones with Biblical scholarship, is an evolutionary, political document that is also filled with many fables intended as teaching stories. And yet they believe every word of it as if it were literal fact.

Obviously, there is much truth to Aesop's Fables. But if someone actually believes that once there was a Fox who could not reach some grapes---well, let's not give them a grant to build a Hadron collider.

It isn't enough to say the media let us down. They betrayed us. DAMNIT.

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The MSN has been the Judas Goat that has led the whole herd of American cattle to the abattoir.

People tend to make decisions based on the information they have. When the quality of the information they have is very poor, so are the decisions...yes, there is some personal responsibility here--I but I know many people who are simply not auto-didactic--and if all their friends and neighbors are repeating mis-information--who are they to challenge this? It will only lead to conflict and confrontation. And the convention wisdom is that only a nut job wants that. So they let the diligence go. They let the Zombie Lies continue to stalk around eating peoples brains.

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Many in the media today see siding with power as more lucrative than speaking truth to it.

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There is plenty of money to be made, supplying the Army with the tools of the trade...

They jerks I know, know they're lying. They don't care. These guys can hold god and darwin in the same hand, while never acknowledging any contradiction that might display. They callus.

man the mistakes in that one. oops....

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But see, at least you can admit mistakes, you truth-teller, you!

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Wonderful Post! You address the issue of character here, of temperament. And in the process you indict both McCain and his running mate. How important it is to have leaders who are trustworthy speakers and careful decision-makers.

You also allude to the importance of the press. How important it is that we can depend on receiving the accurate information we need to hold our leaders to a high standard.

I would add one more thing. The importance of truth-telling when it comes to the Oath of Office. Someone who takes that oath must be a person who honestly means what the oath says and intends to honestly carry out what the oath demands. In order to preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution, one must understand the Constitution. One must have that understanding in one's very bones, in one's words and one's actions - especially during a campaign. One must have that trustworthiness to carry out the Oath at the core of one's conscience.

c4Logic (above) notes the "anointed bearers of Truth" whom republicans seem to look to for guidance. And I would like to underscore that in our republic, leaders are not "anointed," as kings are. They must earn the mantle of leadership.

On the basis of all these qualities, the republican ticket is manifestly unfit for high office. And it is a national disgrace that the whole world is watching as an election plays out - with one party fielding individuals who are morally unfit for the offices they seek.

I hope and I pray - for the nation and the world - that sanity prevails as Americans go to the polls on Nov. 4.

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McCain is not a liar, he is a BS-er. The distinction can be found in the book by philosopher Harry Frankfurt: "On Bullshit".

I liar knows the truth, but conceals it deliberately. A BS-er has no regard for the truth and will say whatever is necessary at the moment to win his point. Bill O'Reilly is a perfect example. He will contradict himself from one sentence to the next and will deny that he said things even when confronted with the actual recording.

McCain is a BS-er, he does not care what he said previously. All he cares about is winning - the end justifies the means. He's the dog whose been chasing the car (of presidential nomination) for decades and now has caught it, but doesn't know what to do with it.

We had one other BS-er in recent times - Nixon and he was a sociopath. One wonders if McCain is one as well, or perhaps he is just old and befuddled.

Whichever, he is unfit to lead, which means that his handlers will be running the country. Frank Rich in today's Times, think that this will be Palin (or actually her handlers).

Aside from Cheney we have had other proxies running the country. Dulles under Eisenhower, Mrs. Wilson after his stroke and a cabal under Reagan.

Too many voters think they are voting for American Idol and not an executive leader. The media does all it can to reinforce this framing, since none of the talking heads have the background to evaluate policy, so they focus on lipstick issues.

No sir, He is a liar.

The world is seeing how well propaganda works.

After eight years of George W. the world has had the curtain pulled back on what America has become, now they are seeing but not believing that we may continue down that road to ruin with a lying old fool of a Republican and a 'hockey mom'.

Ah yes, the Greenwald paradox. Why won't reporters hound politicians 24/7/365 to reveal everything, and make themselves persona non grata in the process? To him and Hundt it's unfathomable. Needless to say, it's the perspective of someone that doesn't have to acquire information, just critique those that do.

More importantly, if Bill or Hillary Clinton were running, would this column have been written? Of course not. When the Clintons are involved, lying is SOP, and that's just fine for their fans.


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shooter242,

sometimes your posts are sillier than OldSarg's.

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airgun177,
How much are you paid per post? And could you just wag your tail? I don't think I need the lipstick or the eye makeup to enjoy a closer relationship.
cheers,
z2v

"Very few people repeat untruths and misstatements over and over. When they do, they have to be held to intend to mislead, conceal, or deceive. So then we can call their untruths by the word "lies."

- 100 years in Iraq
- 4 million to be middle class
- how many houses

Rings a bell?

Waiting for clarification, mr talking head.

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Lalo,

3rd Law of Thermodynamics;

Whenever a Republican gets caught with his hand in the cookie jar it will follow, that said Republican, or his/her supporters, will reply:

'Oh yeah, well, well, what about the Democrats, heh, heh?'

When you can't justify the crime, ameliorate it.

Which is what you, presumably a Democrat, just used.

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The "you-do-it-too" (or "misery loves company") debating gambit has such an ancient and dishonorable pedigree that dialecticians throughout the ages have given it the Latin name (for easy reference: Tu QuoQue

As Professor T. Edward Damer explains this dialectical dodge in Attacking Faulty Reasoning -- a guide to fallacy-free arguments(Wadsworth, 2001): "This fallacy consists in rejecting a criticism of one's argument or actions by accusing one's critic or others of thinking or acting in a similar way."

The fallacy fails to convince because it essentially tries to deflect attention from the merits or defects of the particular criticism in question. If you want to discredit the idea that deliberate lying makes a candidate unworthy of the high office he or she seeks, then you need to defend deliberate lying. You could, for example, forthrightly assert that deliberate lying makes for great government, and then proceed to give evidence to support your claim from the past eight years of rampant Republican Party lying and the kind of (mis) government this has produced.

On the other hand, to take escapist refuge in the Tu QuoQue fallacy brands you a rabid partisan of what I like to call Manufactured Mendacity and Managed Mystification

Even worse for your "argument," though: Your particular example of fallacy-mongering (to the extent one can parse your inarticulate gibberish for traces of human thought) suggests that you "challenge" the widely reported utterances of Panama-John McBush to the effect that he indeed (1) wouldn't mind if America remained in occupation of Iraq for 100 years, (2) considers $5,000,000 the upper boundary of the "middle class" and (3) doesn't have a clue how many houses he owns. Panama-John (he of foreign-country birth) did indeed say all these things -- and he said them unapologetically, even joyfully. So you cannot "challenge" these statements on any factual basis. Hence your resort to fallacious question begging as an attempt to distract from the obvious truth of Republican Party lying about what their partisan heroes say and do.

Yet your failure to argue a point reasonably (or even rhetorically) betrays even greater weaknesses than simple factual incoherence. Maintaining that "you do it, too" requires you to give evidence that Panama-John McBush's political opposition also "does it, too." So please show where Senator Barack Obama (or even the also-ran Clinton Partners in Pathos) ever said that (1) America might just as well stay in occupation of Iraq for 100 years, (2) only those making $5,000,000 or more qualify as "rich", or (3) don't know how many houses they own. I do not think you can do this. Therefore, you cannot claim that "you do it, too," when "we" (or those candidates we support) never did any such thing. None of us ever said what Panama-John McBush said, no matter what you surreptitiously attempt to imply to the contrary.

Turning the "misery loves company" fallacy around to stretch its absurdities even more, however, the re-invented (last week) Palin-What's-His-Name ticket has now blatantly aped Barack Obama's successful "change" motif, obviously because their former insistence on "experience" didn't work because (1) Americans don't want any more experience with corrupt Republicans in government and (2) don't believe that What's-His-Name's brand new unvetted running mate has any "experience" worth noticing. So, in an act of pure expedient desperation, the new Palin-What's-His-Name campaign has hijacked the Tu QuoQue fallacy and renamed it "We want change, too" (even when they fraudulently sell the status quo as "change"). How transparent and pathetic.

In summary, your inarticulate comments betray a prefernce for the cheap fallacy that would make a high school sophomore ashamed; although I apologize for my comment if you haven't yet gotten that far in school.

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Sorry for the missing closure on the "bold" HTML tag. I only meant to emphasize the two terms "Manufactured Mendacity" and "Managed Mystification". I really wish this website had a preview editing function so that we could better clean up our type fonts and formatting so as to make our postings more easily presentable.

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Michael,

excellent rebuttal, A+

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I am confused here. I heard McCain say, essentially, he would not have a problem with the US military staying a hundred years in Iraq. I heard McCain say 5 million a year was his definition of rich. I heard him say he doesn't know how many houses he owns. Are you saying that my ears are lying to me?

I think you have given me a case of 'cognitive dissonance'.

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Here's the problem. People don't want to see the truth. It conflicts what they value.

http://www.ethicsscoreboard.com/rb_definitions.html

Cognitive Dissonance: Cognitive dissonance is a psychological phenomenon first identified by Leon Festinger. It occurs when there is a discrepancy between what a person believes, knows and values, and persuasive information that calls these into question. The discrepancy causes psychological discomfort, and the mind adjusts to reduce the discrepancy. In ethics, cognitive dissonance is important in its ability to alter values, such as when an admired celebrity embraces behavior that his or her admirers deplore. Their dissonance will often result in changing their attitudes toward the behavior. Dissonance also leads to rationalizations of unethical conduct, as when the appeal and potential benefits of a large amount of money makes unethical actions to acquire it seem less objectionable than if they were applied to smaller amounts.

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But such dissonance can also lead to a tipping point. Where people, once their categories have been stretched to the limit - to try and encompass discomfirming information - will finally bump up to a more enlarged world view, instead of the narrow one they began with.

That's my hope for some, this election season.

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Good call.

But America has chosen liars to be our leaders; the most obvious example was Bush in 2004 and you would think that example would cause McCain’s support to collapse. But I can think of couple of reasons why some people would continue to support a leader who lies to them.

1) Unconsciously they want to be lied to, the truth is too painful to confront head-on. The right cannot confront the reality of the destruction that Bush has waged on the country nor do they want to confront the reality of peak oil or global warming. The worse things get the more they need to be lied to.

2) Lying in a campaign is a metaphor for Presidential ruthlessness. This could be true for non-ideological voters with a singular priority of self-interest who would only vote for a President who mirrors their own ruthlessness. If they want a President to be ruthless on their behalf they may want to believe he would lie for them as well.

That said I don’t think his credibility can be maintained for a majority of voters for the next two months.


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#1 is an excellent description of how, based on the principle of cognitive dissonance, people initially try to fit new and disconfirming information into their current pattern of thinking.

#2 is a means of buttressing people from having to confront disconfirming information. A leader, an authority figure, can buttress that via the principle of appealing to authority. And this is an argument the repupublicans excell at. Illogical though it is.

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George Washington: "I cannot tell a lie..."

McCain: "Well, you can't be President."

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Lying is bearing false witness.

It can get you kicked out of the Naval Academy

It can get you called before the mast, or courts martialed in the Navy

It can get you tried for perjury in a court of Law or a deposition.

It can get you indicted if you lie on your IRS forms.

It can get you fired on the job.

We teach our children not to lie. We encode it in our honor system. Lying is a breach of trust. It is a betrayal of 'good faith'. How can you trust a leader who lies to you to gain your consent, and your support? McCain and Palin break faith with you ever time they lie to you. Why is this acceptable? How can so many voters support this? Especially 'values voters'?

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Sir, I salute your plea for ethics. I applaud your desire that we, as a nation, return to our ideals.

Nor can our culture: as Americans we want truth-telling to be the standard set on high for all to observe and emulate.


True. However, we seem to elect them with fair regularity.

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For the worst lying politicians, deliberate and obvious lies are a loyalty test. Those who go along, are demonstrating loyalty. Those who object are disloyal. There is an element of this here, regarding the MSM. Who is a loyal Republican? Just check out how the Bridge to Nowhere nonsense is being covered. Any journalist that is unwilling to brand that the lie that it is has just declared himself/herself to be totally in the tank for Republicans. It's not a slip, not an example of laziness, not following the herd. McCain is using the lie for other purposes as well, but take names because it's a test too.

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Every one here is correct, but I would add

that families in the suburbs or folks in smaller towns (Wasilla notwithstanding) do not see the need for big government or taxation or big city politicians. Politicians lie all the time. Therefore they cast their vote, if at all, for the more conservative of the two who promises them smaller government. And you know what? If McCain wins, their lives won't look a whole lot different (or so they've convinced themselves) than they do now.

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