Gates Surrenders: Us Will Supply Israel With Bunker Busting Bombs For Bombing Iran
Could the administration have changed its mind about letting Israel attack Iran. Sure looks like it.
Just what we need. The Arab and Muslim world will, of course, not distinguish an Israeli attack with US weapons from an American attack (why would they?).
I guess the Palin Doctrine is already in effect i.e. "we cannot second guess anything Israel does" no matter what its effects would be on Americans.
The neocons live!















MJ formulates his ideology in a vacum. This decision is a tit-for-tat response to what is going on with Russia and their new push for influence in the Middle East. They just announced their intention to build a base in Syria, so Bush ups the ante. Welcome to the new cold war we are ignoring, while we talk about pigs and lipstick.
Oh, and MJ, btw, since i know no other injustice in that region crosses your desk, the Syrians have just invaded Lebanon (again!) with commando units marching into Tripoli over the weekend. Isn't it interesting that Hezbollah hasn't even fired a shot in response to this unprovoked aggression? Do you care to publicly 2nd guess Nasrallah on this board and attempt to explain his actions? After all Hezbollah are supposed to be the defenders of Lebenase sovereignty.
September 14, 2008 12:40 PM | Reply | Permalink
Sorry, Israel cannot tit-for-tat when titting-for-tatting can lead to the deaths of Americans. When its US supplied weapons, it's our call.
What does Hezbollah have to do with it? Israel can do whatever it chooses with Nasrallah and his thugs. I'm talking about Iran, a nation we can negotiate with, but choose not to.
September 14, 2008 1:31 PM | Reply | Permalink
For the record, i'm noting your lack of outrage over Syria's invasion of Lebanon -- in case Israel might do the same in the future.
Hezbollah is Iran! They are just another arm of their army and absolutely commanded by Tehran. They are pointing missiles at Israel to "defend Lebanon" while Syrian soldiers pour across their border uninvited. Any more questions about the real purpose and intentions of Iran in Lebanon and for that matter the greater Middle East?
September 14, 2008 1:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
"Syria's invasion of Lebanon?"
I must have missed that one.
Brook, do you have even a clue about Middle Eastern politics and history?
In 1976, the Christian-run, Israeli-backed Lebanese government pleaded for Syrian military intervention to avoid defeat in the religious civil war that began the previous year.
Israel gave its tacit approval, and the Arab League authorized the peacekeeping force, which at various times numbered 15,000 to 40,000 troops.
Yes, Syria dominated the country for the next 30 years but -- unlike Israel -- they never invaded it.
As for the bunker-busters, I have to hope the announcement is a bit of psychological warfare.
If Israel does attempt an attack, all bets are off in the Middle East and GWOT.
Oh, and expect slightly longer waits at the gas pump.
September 14, 2008 2:45 PM | Reply | Permalink
I know more about the region that you -- bank onn it. I'm well aware of Syrian assassinations of Lebanese civilians, journalists, and politicians. What do you think March 11 was all about -- absolute disgust and outrage at the influence and prescence of Syrian troops in Lebanon. Hello! you need to read something besides BBC.
September 16, 2008 9:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
BrookD,
I see 1 source for the alleged Syrian incursion
I do not see it on BBC. Daniel fucking Pipes posts the International Analyst Network so it seems to be part of the Washington Times, Weekly Standard Associated Wing-nut News Service.
The BBC headlines are
For a supporter of Israel to bring up Lebanon is like throwing a grenade w/o pulling the pin. Lebanon, Beirut, the American University were shining lights in the Middle East. No longer. Poor Lebanon.
September 14, 2008 2:13 PM | Reply | Permalink
Then, after Israel bomb, bomb, bombs Iran, the Iranian Army may retaliate against U.S. ground forces in Iraq.
If that happens, it would bringing the U.S. fully in to the conflict. Possibly, culminating in a dire strategic decision. Do we stand by while our more than 100,000 troops there come under threat of a Dien Bien Phu like catastrophe or, do we use tactical nukes against the Iranians?
September 14, 2008 1:01 PM | Reply | Permalink
"Do we stand by while our more than 100,000 troops there come under threat" You should of said, "Do we stand by while our more than 100,000 battle hardened, well armed, highly trained troops come under threat?" Do you really think Iran has the military power to inflict substantial injury on our forces? Iran has one of the most poorly trained militaries in the world. The have an Air Force of less than 60 operational airplanes and many of them are cargo aircraft. Their missile systems regularly fail more often than the successfully launch. Other than running around with bombs strapped to their chests Iran has little chance to cause damage to anyone. It's high time "someone" popped a shell into Iran.
September 14, 2008 2:01 PM | Reply | Permalink
Old phony E-6,
So volunteer if you are so fierce and so knowledgeable. America is sick of "bring it on" boasts from those who will never come within 10000 miles of hostile fire.
Now, that you are worked yourself up by flapping your lips, go get one of your sticky stroke mags and finish the job.
Cheers,
z2v
September 14, 2008 2:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
Looks to me like they have decided that there is little chance that they will be able to do it themselves. Instead they have opted to farm it out to Israel to commit national suicide for both of us.
September 14, 2008 1:45 PM | Reply | Permalink
All the more reason we need to elect Obama. A US policy that will never "second guess" Israel is insanely dangerous. In fact it is practically treasonous to suggest Israel has carte blanche to mess with our National interest in the Middle East.
September 14, 2008 1:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
Has anyone else noticed how the President and his people are so quiet? Listen to what they are not saying. They did not attend the Republican Convention, the hurricane was their excuse. Have we ever, in all of history, had a sitting President not attend his party's convention? When a person is extrordinarily quiet, that person is usually getting ready to act. I think Iran will be attacked in the very near future, probably before the elections. It will be a set up. Terrorism that Iran gets blamed for, but they will be innocent.
September 14, 2008 1:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
And this post is evidence liberal fear-mongering lives.
September 14, 2008 3:40 PM | Reply | Permalink
aa.
Right, I know it's not a comment on the actual contents on the article, but rather a lame attempt to slap MJ. After all, you don't have a bloody fucking clue about the issues involved.
September 14, 2008 4:55 PM | Reply | Permalink
Er......BrookD?
The report about Syrian commandos invading Tripoli is exciting, but the sole source is Debkafile.
As for your exhortations for Nasrallah to send his warriors into the area, I'm afraid that's impossible. You see, Tripoli is a Sunni stronghold with a minority population of Alawites.
Hezbollah has no presence in northern Lebanon and Nasrallah isn't so stupid as to invade the the territory during reconciliation talks among Lebanon's various factions. Tripoli has been the locale of much sectarian violence of late; most Lebanese factions agree that much of it is designed to derail the efforts at unification.
You see, there are certain foreign interests that don't want a unified Lebanon; they being the Saudis, Israel and US. It's not in Hezbollah's interests to intervene in Tripoli. That's the task of the Lebanese Army.
By the way, guess which country did not want Syria to withdraw from Lebanon? It was Israel. Israel was perfectly fine with the status quo. From the Israeli perspective, it was "better the devil you know" than the uncertainty of that silly "Beirut Spring" democracy business.
BTW, that's also the Israeli position on prospects of regime change in Syria.
As for the supplying of the bunkerbusters to Israel, one shouldn't assume they are destined for use in Iran. It could be that Lebanon is the target as promised by various Israeli poobahs in the fairly recent past. This concluding sentence from the Haaretz article suggests as much:
"Israel will also receive 28,000 LAW
(Light Anti-Tank Weapon) tube launchers for land forces."
Then again, there could be a 2-fer or 3-fer if Syria is included.
Bombs by themselves mean nothing without access codes, permission to fly over Iraq, and the capability to refuel, etc. Although, these particular bombs would make an attack on Iran easier. There is also the issue of missile defense systems to consider. Watch for the deployment of Patriots and the AN/TPY-2 forward-based X-band radar system in the Negev (soon). US deployments of naval assets to the region are also key.
This article from Arutz Sheva sketches out some of the challenges re an Israeli attack on Iran:
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/127576
More on the challenges from Pat Lang:
http://turcopolier.typepad.com/sic_semper_tyrannis/2008/09/ask-the-iraqi-g.html
Permission to transit Iraq supposedly is Maliki's call. But the truth is, the Iraqis would have no way to counter an Israeli incursion.
BTW, back in July, Admiral Mike Mullen warned his Israeli counterparts against another USS Liberty "mistake" ie a casus belli.
Friday, Russian President Medvedev said; "We know that certain players are planning an attack against Iran"
and so on.....
September 14, 2008 5:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
Are you saying that BrookD is an ignorant troll?
September 14, 2008 8:59 PM | Reply | Permalink
This is much about nothing. The US agreed to sell 1000 GBU-39 bombs to Israel. These are the SMALLEST bombs in our arsenal. It's a 250 lb bomb with a 50 lb warhead. These will probably not even take out a Hezballah bunker and is absolutely worthless against Iran's hardened underground nuclear bunkers. By way of comparison, the Katyusha rockets that Hezballah fired at Israel in 2006 carried a 66 lb warhead.
September 14, 2008 6:40 PM | Reply | Permalink
jdledell.
One of the advantages of these "state of the art" small smart bombs is their size, allowing more to be carried. There are others, of course:
"The Small Smart Bomb is a 250 pound weapon that has the same penetration capabilities as a 2000lb BLU-109, but with only 50 pounds of explosive."
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/munitions/sdb.htm
September 14, 2008 7:57 PM | Reply | Permalink
Mr. Rosenberg, please, please ask your friends at J Street to oppose this sale vociferously so we can show them to be the fools they truly are. As soon as they oppose it, they will meet the same fate as Breirah.
September 14, 2008 9:04 PM | Reply | Permalink
WASHINGTON—JStreetPAC, the first pro-Israel, pro-peace PAC, today announced its endorsement of
eight more Members of Congress seeking re-election and two candidates running for Congress for the
first time. JStreetPAC has now endorsed a total of 23 candidates, including 14 current Members of
Congress.
The PAC today endorsed:
• Rep. Earl Blumenauer (D, OR-03)
• Rep. Keith Ellison (D, MN-05)
• Rep. Bob Filner (D, CA-51)
• Rep. Rush Holt (D, NJ-12)
• Bob Lord (D, AZ-03)
• Rep. Betty McCollum (D, MN-04)
• Chellie Pingree (D, ME-01)
• Rep. David Price (D, NC-04)
• Rep. Jan Schakowsky (D, IL-09)
• Rep. Joe Sestak (D, PA-07)
Mr. Rosenberg, please inform us which of these Democrats is opposed to the sale you have discussed in this piece.
September 14, 2008 9:08 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hi there aipacmember!
How are our elected representatives to Congress supposed to vote on the proposal to sell the UAE those THAAD thingies? I know they're supposed be a defense against Iranian missiles; but what if Israel wants to attack those Emirs some day?
September 14, 2008 10:22 PM | Reply | Permalink
apacdolt missing the I,
Why don't you quit pussy-footing around and propose a final solution to the Palestinian problem? Or do you just want an eternal war to justify the war party? Or what?
cheers,
z2v
September 14, 2008 10:36 PM | Reply | Permalink
Ask AIPAC. That is what you pay dues for? I assume they are all against it.
September 15, 2008 10:58 AM | Reply | Permalink
I am neither a dolt or a Nazi. My final solution to the Palestenian problem is the same two-state deal that the weasel rejected in January, 2001 at Taba. Hopefully President Obama will ask Ambassador Ross and Special Envoy Bill Clinton to put it before Abbas and pressure the Saudis, the Egyptians and all of the other Arabs to force Hamas to take it.
September 15, 2008 10:23 AM | Reply | Permalink
"neither a dolt NOR a Nazi." I never said you were a Nazi. Just that you have views about untermenschen (pardon my German).
September 15, 2008 2:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
aipacmember.
Thanks for addressing my earlier question. It's perfectly logical that Dennis Ross be assigned to Israel as ambassador rather than take on the much wider concerns of a Sec of State. That way, Ross can help ensure that insane Israeli demands be accorded legitimacy. My latest favorite Israeli "conditions" are, as reported in Ynetnews:
"Israeli on its part is demanding the entire West Bank be demilitarized. All these are still clouded by Hamas' strengthening grip on the Gaza Strip – an issue Israel demands be resolved before the negotiations go any further."
That last demand is worthy of nomination to The Catch-22 Hall of Infamous Idiocies.
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September 15, 2008 3:02 PM | Reply | Permalink
BrooknotatrollD.
Update to your Debkafile info on Syrian commandos in northern Lebanon.
As to be expected, Lebanon is denying that any such thing is happening. The incursion is said to be in the Alawite villages in the area which would make sense as Alawites have Syrian ties and Assad, tho secular, is of Alawite lineage.
Apparently, there is reason to hope that Debkafile is correct.
Lebanon has been hard pressed to deal with the growing presence of hardend Sunni Salafist AQ terrorist types who have been infiltrating into Lebanon. These worse-of-the-worst jihadis consider Israel/Israelis as their #1 enemy with Hezbollah as #2 and UNIFIL Crusaders as #3. Palestinian refugee camps are particularily vulnerable:
" Europe would accept a Syrian military operation in north Lebanon to crack dawn Islamist fundamentalist groups, Lebanese daily ad-Diyar reported Monday.
The report said that for the first time, the European intelligence services have discussed the presence of fundamentalist groups in north Lebanon and considered their threat.
"The areas in the north, from Tripoli to Danyieh and Akkar, have become a fundamentalist base with tens of thousands of fighters in an area inhabited by 700,000 Sunnis," the report added.
The report also said EU foreign policy chief Javier Solana have told some Arab countries that if the situation breaks up in north Lebanon, Europe would accept a Syrian military operation in coordination with the Lebanese army to go 40 km inside Lebanon to crack down Islamist fighters which are more than 3,000 strong there.
A Jordanian security source told the pan-Arab daily al-Hayat on Friday that al-Qaida representatives are present in Lebanon and are recruiting Palestinians in the refugee camps.
The threat of Islamist in north Lebanon is mounting, especially in poor and neglected Sunni areas where fundamentalist operatives have a safe haven and can recruit more supporters."
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2008-09/15/content_10019959.htm
Pragmatically speaking, the Syrians partnered with the Lebanese Army would be the most effective forces to deal with these threats.
Hezbollah's control over southern Lebanon has thus far kept these elements pretty much confined to the volatile Palestinian Ein el-Hilweh refugee camp near Israel's northern border. Today, it's reported that a fellow allied with the "Jund al-Sham group which follows the extremist ideology of al-Qaida, was shot Monday as he sat in his father's clothes shop in the Ein el-Hilweh refugee camp."
Asassins unknown.
September 15, 2008 4:10 PM | Reply | Permalink