It would be to the benefit of both Israelis and Arabs if The Hebrew Republic were to jog Israelis into reckoning with the issues raised by author Bernard Avishai. The Hebrew Republic makes clear that Israel's prosperity and the whole Israeli project are at stake. As he makes clear in the last paragraph of his opening entry for the TPM cafe discussion, the entire way of approaching peacemaking must change.

What are the chances of this happening? It is hard to be optimistic, notwithstanding the nothing-is-taboo liberty with which Israelis debate the issues, a joy to follow, observe and emulate.

Prime Minister Sharon, never a great explainer, nonetheless hinted clearly at Israel's dilemma in his TV address the night before the Israeli withdrawal from Gaza and the northern West Bank, to the effect (from memory) that the situation in which 8000 settlers were juxtaposed with one and a half million Palestinians living in hate and squalor in a disproportionate area of the Strip was unsustainable. Prime Minister Olmert's Haaretz interview directly after the Annapolis conference was an eye-opener: a two-state solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is not only critical to the survival of the State of Israel, it is also urgent, if only because it is only a matter of time before the Palestinians will constitute a majority between the Jordan and the Mediterranean, and the Palestinians will only have to demand one vote per man and the US Jewish community will have to insist that Israel be true to its vaunted democracy.

And yet only yesterday the Israeli Cabinet preferred to postpone a proposal to offer compensation to West Bank settlers prepared to move out of occupied territory, thus fortifying Palestinian scepticism about Israel's willingness to come to terms even as a hypothetical question.

There is plenty of room to doubt whether a two-state solution is still possible, whether the chance wasn't missed at some indeterminate point not too long ago. The Hebrew Republic may be a Hail Mary pass (an expression which I hope I don't have to explain to non-Catholics), but, I say, let us pray.

Alvaro de Soto

A nation built on the idea that its very existence relies on the association with one single religion is doomed for failure at some point.

I'm happy to see this discussion here. As a Jewish American, born in the same year as Israel's independence, I grew up thinking of Israel as a bastion of democracy and social justice. My parents were enthusiastic supporters of Israeli independence but were Americans first: strong supporters of civil liberties, the Civil Rights movement, and developing our American society into a community that was open to diversity of all types. I think the socialism and dedicated democracy in Israel fit with their view of what a good society looked like. Therefore it was a rude awakening to them and to me to find out that Israel could be just as oppressive and unjust as any other country.
I view the occupation as having sapped the moral strength of Israel -- not only because of the way an occupying force tyrannizes over the occupied but also because it led to more distrust of and discrimination against Israeli Arabs.
I want a Jewish state to continue to exist, but along the lines you describe above. I'm anxious to learn how you think that will play out.

"These were very difficult things for people to hear in the 1980s."

How do you figure this has changed in the US?

One can hardly bring up any of this in the states without being called anti-Semitic and getting shouted down by a loud chorus of organizations and individuals who brook no criticism or even doubts about the wisdom of any Isreali policy.

Jewish Americans and Jews around the world should be made aware of Sarah Palin's church and their beliefs.
They believe that Jews who do not convert to Christianity will be punished by God. They sight examples of terrorists killing Jews as punishment from God.

'Touchdown Jesus' appears to be a depiction of the Sermon on the Mount. Jesus's arms are spread wide, with the upper arms horizontal and the lower arms slightly lifted. It's not really much like a touchdown signal, in which the arms are raised straight in the air.

To Bernard Vishay and the Tpm readers

To consider Israel a Democracy is a naïve outsiders' illusion.

Israel was established by an "Ashkenazi" –Jewish European "elite"- which was the Palmach, and the Ezel- the military-Zionist guerrilla brigades, who turned naturally after 48 to be the leading parties in Israel.

This elite is actually the same elite it to this day, in the evolvement of all governmental, military and financial, as well as civil institutions and organizations. This Palmach evolved into "MAPAI" party-until today the "Avoda"-the "Workers" Party. The EZEL parliamentary evolvement is the "Likud", which got to election winning in 1977- that got elected on the discriminated public's ticket- the immigrants from the Arab and north-Africa countries. It didn’t do much good with their socio-economic state, but it gave them the false pride of taking a part in the hegemony. It still uses the same tactic- being even more militant than the original Hegemony, it also holds to a radical neo-liberal images of the American dream- anybody can make it if he'll fight the fight, which is of no practical difference from the mainstream moderate-"left"-original hegemony.

The parliamentary Culture and way of conducting is an internal-party-coalitional-interest which is governed ONLY by the internal interests of the party's go-getters, due to the moment's coalitional interests. Those interest where NEVER the interest of the citizens. You, outsiders, must remember that except of a very small percentage, and the original citizens of Israel are the Palestinians who stayed after 1948 and after 1967 inside the green-line- and they are out of the question in terms of citizenship illusions. the brave idealist Zionists who established the Kibbutzim and other first settlements are considered as the original Israelis (aside of Bar Kohva and King David ). All the others, the majority of this country are not founders of this bravery. They are immigrants, immigrant which are refugees as well, in most cases… that as all immigrants, and even more than anywhere else, has the need to belong and prove their patriotism.

What it means is that this immigration-refugee public is a civilian Underdog bevy, with a very Strict Hierarchy of a society. So, you can rule-out a Democratic –civic consciousness that is a condition to establish a civil-democratic society, besides of maintaining it.

The respect and the authoritative consciousness in this public of immigrants-refugees, was always reserved and given only to the "defenders of our post-holocaust –we can be extinguished-in –any-moment" consciousness. Means, that this public of a hierarchy of underdogs, sees ONLY Generals as its legitimate "leaders", that are qualified for positions of power and government. Those generals established their positions before their immigrant subjects have arrived. Also among the go-getters themselves, the same Hierarchy works, naturally.

As outsiders, you must understand that in Israel, a sound mechanism that is a condition to a Democratic-regime was never established. There is no mechanism of separation between governmental authorities: there isn’t a constitution ; the Legislating authority, the executive authority and the judiciary authority are strictly NOT-separated, not by law, not by regulations and not in practice. In Israel there is no systems of checks and Balances between the authorities, and no public which in the most an immigrant-refugee (no matter if first generation of fifth by today), that has no-civil-Democratic consciousness which will demand a proper democratic conduct, which he never knew. Not where he came from and certainly not in Israel.

Yes, we do have the symbolic democratic act of elections. Not only here, the BOX with the clit as the positive American influence trick is one of the best image succeses ever. Only in a black country or "strange "Abhazi" places, us white folks don’t buy the trick..) In Israel, the parties from the beginning are not expected to be accountable, and a system of accountability does not exist. We cannot replace a party member who is usually a former general (or playing by the image of the militant-code of behavior and Demagogy which is enough to be identified as qualified). We do not have the Houses system, we do not have regional delegates that can be not-chosen a second time if they failed to fulfill their promises. Actually, they don't have to promise anything to the public, because their place in the party is set in advance by their inner-corrupt interests, which in 99% has nothing to do with any-publics true needs. It's about colloquial interests that by today are SOLELY a business of a very tight elite of the local conglomerates interests (and international weapons industry Israeli conglomerate), that has cocked and developed for the last 60 years, in a ongoing demagogic cultivation of the slim-patriotic images you must have noticed: the well known "we are the chosen people" – "an attack upon us-never again"- and the hate to the exiled Jew who "went like sheep to its own slaughter".

The meaning of the third ethos, the contempt towards the exiled Jew, Meant in practice an absolute de-legitimization of all those immigrants-refugees cultural identity and practices from each and every Diaspora. The ideal Israeli-zionist, is a simple well known fascist image of a blond-well build-proud –new Jew –who is a farmer, worker, settler, better than anyone in the world (by definition, being the chosen people)- is the only approved image by the elite, the Hegemony. They are the ones who where first and conquered the "Promised Land", the ones who ceased power – the Brave Original Mapai and Ezel members.

So this huge group of underdogs are as always underdogs that were told to shed off their history and Identity (including the holocaust survivors who where defiled for their sheepiness-exiled mentality) not to speak of the ARAB-Jews, dark skinned Jews who came from the Arab countries, not to speak of the Ethiopian Jews today and so forth. The "Israeli"- Arabs are seen as an "inside enemy", "fifth battalion"). The Zionist image of the new Israeli-Jew, is made out of a classic Colonialist Racist social –emotional identity mechanisms, is an image that can be said of as actually completed Hitler's work. It did so by devouring the Jewish spiritual and cultural-practical Knowledge, by submitted it, behooving it completely to a near empty image of togetherness that does not exist. What does exist is the image of togetherness of all of us as should be this New-Jew on the Zionist poster who basically is very handsome and says "Never again, for an Israeli am I." There is literally nothing besides that, in terms of this togetherness. What there really is, is a Hierarchy of the ones who did look and behaved like the fascist poster guy, and all the rest which were not quite that, or did not succeed resembling it. (the use of Benjamin (aka Bibi) Netanyahu in his brother is classic)

The Hierarchy was executed by the parties-generals in a perfect manner. On the acme of this Hierarchy are as called in Israel "The salt of the country"-which are Ashkenazi high class young man who served and still serve in the special units, in the air-force and intelligence. They are business entrepreneurs, high-tech and so forth- and this image is no different from the usual neo-capitalist ideal.

In practice, the Public-spine of social services and institutions for a functioning society that was built by some idealists with a sense of responsibility on the first 35-40 years to the establishment the Jewish nation- -- those governmental and social systems are hanging today by their last remains. In the past 25 years they were absolutely disassembled, absolutely. So have all of the public's assets: land, water, pension funds, which where over manipulated and as much as 50% of the elderly today will not get their pensions which they paid for all their working life. They will live on social security pension which is amount to 443$ with the same no-value to the money. The private insurance market is just kicking in, in the last 10 years, you see….

By today, even the permanent public –accommodations for people with special needs where closed. There are 4 drug-rehab centers in the country. The systems that take care of dropout youth are all civic organizations, as well as hundreds of soup kitchens, medical support organizations etc. Today every fourth child lives under international poverty criteria.

The control over public money is set by an emergency-regulations law, which actually makes even the legislative-work meaningless. The people who really decide about the policy are of two sources: 1.the party go-getters (including the prime minister) and 2. The "Treasury Boys" (as their called) who are the Treasury clerks. They are ideal young go-getters, the most sharp and highly hot-couture well dressed confidential clerks, who finished masters in economics and accounting by the outdated- Thacheristic-oriented-economic studies, usually out of the "Ivy-league"-private-exclusively for elite- status –fattening college (IDC).

To make sure the parliament is absolutely futile, we have in Israel an "arrangement Law"- out of emergency regulations Laws which is a practical standard from the mid 80's (that enables many of the occupation's usual practices), which is a Democracy-redundant law for it alone is stronger than all laws and budgets "Democratically" decided by the parliament or the different governmental comities. It alone cuts and adds and decides in each and every one of the uses of the public-budget: medicines, schools, infrastructure, and security. You name it.

This Underdog-manipulated hierarchy of a public doesn’t have the mechanisms, doesn’t have the Knowledge and doesn’t have the means to take over the local-neocon-general's-go-getters half legal mafia. This public doesn’t know what are the democratic mechanisms needed to consider demanding them. This democratic-ignorance includes the minute outspoken few intelligent political critics, ( whose opinions is usually a distant sound of a self-hating yak which the newspapers maintaining their column to keep-up the democratic appearance. they never say to the public that his democratic power is an illusion).

This Banana country is the best out of the ones considered ruled by outside interests, in making PR- selling itself as a democracy. "WE are the only democratic country in the region!" this is BS. What is special, is that those belligerent thick-sculled half brained generals (including our belie president) who abuse us as if they where outsiders, are identified by this immigrant society as our defenders.

They will also not ask Uncle Sam for permission to blow the vital ("but inevitable") shot that might mark the beginning of a third world war.

Therefore, talking about Israel as a democracy is a bit uninformed.

How do I add links to the comment?

Dammit, Bernard, get out of my head, will you? I've been saying most of the same things for years, but most of my writings on the subject have vanished into the ether, and you say it much better than I do anyway. Well done, and from your mouth to God's ear.