James Carville Hasn't Changed; He Was A Spy for Bush in 2004
This is a repost of what I wrote here in TPM in 2006.
I just came across a troubling incident that Bob Woodward reports in his new book. Very troubling.
On page 344, Woodward describes the doings at the White House in the early morning hours of Wednesday, the day after the '04 election. The Bushies were worried that Kerry would dig in and fight. They needed the election wrapped up.
But, apparently, Kerry had decided not to concede. There were 250,000 outstanding ballots in Ohio.
So Kerry decides to fight. In fact, he considers going to Ohio to camp out with his voters until there is a recount. This is the last thing the White House needs, especially after Florida 2000.
So what happened?
James Carville gets on the phone with his wife, Mary Matalin, who is at the White House with Bush.
"Carville told her he had some inside news. The Kerry campaign was going to challenge the provisional ballots in Ohio -- perhaps up to 250,000 of them. 'I don't agree with it, Carville said. I'm just telling you that's what they're talking about.'
"Matalin went to Cheney to report...You better tell the President, Cheney told her."
Matalin does, advising Bush that "somebody in authority needed to get in touch with J. Kenneth Blackwell, the Republican Secretary of State in Ohio who would be in charge of any challenge to the provisional votes." An SOS goes out to Blackwell. And the corrupt Blackwell took care of it.
The rest is history.
And now Carville is trying to sink Obama.
Another one is that creep Harold Ford who I just saw blathering about McCain getting off the plane in Israel bleeding from being knocked in the head on a tough ride. Just what we need a blue dog giving McCain a Purple Heart.
August 27, 2008 8:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
Wow, I thought I followed the aftermath of 2004 very closely, but I never heard this. God, just another injustice to choke down. Thank you, though, for telling us, to remind us what is at stake.
August 27, 2008 8:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yes, Harold's defeat in '06 was one of the many delights of that evening.
August 27, 2008 8:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
MJ,
I had a love/hate thing with Harold Ford's defeat;
hate because a Democrat lost, but love because it was Harold Ford.
I never liked Ford, he always came off as a self interest opportunist, someone who was in politics
for all the benefits he could mine.
August 28, 2008 9:41 AM | Reply | Permalink
The 04 Carville story is an old story. I have heard it before. However, it doesn't mean it's not true.
August 28, 2008 5:29 PM | Reply | Permalink
A few things. Is Carville anywhere on the record discussing this? Defending himself? Denying any part of it? Has anyone ever asked him about it for the record?
Ditto all of the above for John Kerry.
Thanks.
August 27, 2008 9:03 PM | Reply | Permalink
Judas anyone?
August 27, 2008 9:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hohw is Carville trying to sink Obama?
I'm being serious here, asking a genuine question. My personal stance is that Carville's continued existence is a blight on our entire party, but my own feelings about the man don't speak to the specifics of the matter at hand. It seems doubtful to me that Carville would have any access with Team O-B'08, so unless he is a Clinton Dead-ender conduit, I don't see where his information would come from...
August 28, 2008 10:06 AM | Reply | Permalink
Without disputing Woodward's account about 2004, some of us reading M.J.'s guessing game post remain clueless as to what Carville is now doing to merit this accusation with regards to Obama in 2008. The substance of the accusation needs to be spelled out.
August 28, 2008 11:41 AM | Reply | Permalink
Agreed.
You've piqued my interest, MJ! Make with the story! What do you know? If Carville remains a possible conduit, he needs to be taken out of the loop.
August 28, 2008 1:09 PM | Reply | Permalink
All I know is what I wrote. It's all from Woodward.
Carville never denied any of it.
August 28, 2008 2:13 PM | Reply | Permalink
Woodward wrote about Carville and Kerry. You wrote that Carville is now "trying to sink Obama." What evidence do you have to support this accusation?
August 28, 2008 3:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
And Woodward's source is...?
This is a pretty strong accusation. There were many problems in Ohio in 2004, and I'm not a fan of Ken Blackwell, but is there any evidence that he did more to swing the election after the votes were cast?
August 28, 2008 5:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
No, Blackwell was smart enough to rig it before any votes were cast.
August 28, 2008 5:59 PM | Reply | Permalink
If all you know is what you wrote, then maybe you shouldn't have written it. Why didn't you give Carville a call and ask him about it? Or wouldn't that be sneaky enough for you?
August 28, 2008 6:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
yeah the same discredited Woodward who had the temerity to go on the air and say that the Valerie Plame leak was all "a tempest in a teapot" and that there was nothing to it.
Excuse me while I barf.
August 29, 2008 12:12 AM | Reply | Permalink
Seriously, do you really think that Carville does NOT speak to his wife about Democratic affairs? I am not by any means a conspiracy theorists, but I do believe that Carville wants Senator Obama, as does Rendell, Koch, we know Hillary and Bill (put aside what they did to save their a*sses should he not win) to lose. IF the Clintons didn’t “seem” like they are onboard, do you think Hillary would have a shot at the nomination in 2012 IF Senator Obama loses?!?!?!?!?!?
Does this come as a surprise to anyone?
August 28, 2008 1:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
James Carville and his dog-faced wife are a couple of slugs that are just looking for the biggest salt rock to slather under. They would sell out their mothers. And James is really not an attractive guy, but I know they have transvestites in New Orleans that look better than Matlin! I’m just saying…
August 28, 2008 10:25 AM | Reply | Permalink
Demeaning Mary Matlin's appearance takes away from any point you may have been trying to make. I don't understand why it is appropriate or acceptable.
August 28, 2008 7:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
The marriage explained.
August 28, 2008 10:47 AM | Reply | Permalink
just listening to Carville on TV makes my stomach clench. Can anyone take anything that man says as being sincere? And he reminds me of a hairless squirrel.
August 28, 2008 10:54 AM | Reply | Permalink
Indeed. Carville is in politics for the game, the show, it seems. The issues are secondary to "the game" and mere victory or defeat. He strikes me as being every bit as mercenary as Rove.
Talk about a celebrity, too. Man, that guy loves putting his grinning self on the television.
Keep him Away, Obama - AWAY!!!
August 28, 2008 5:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
I too would like to know how Carville is sinking Obama. I almost never watch CNN, so don't get to see his commentary.
I had heard of this tale back in '04 when it happened.
When you have people like this around, they should be used to advantage. He should be given information meant to be leaked, with the intent of confusing or screwing up Republican plans.
Anything can be used as a weapon to win this war, it's really just a matter of figuring out how to do it.
August 28, 2008 11:38 AM | Reply | Permalink
He is highly critical of the convention and of Senator Obama, planting seeds of doubts, unlike the republican talking heads, who would go down drowning with the idiot McCain, in the name of the party. Do you hear them, Joe Scarborough, Brad Blakeman, Lars Lunatic, that Walls woman from the Washington Times, et all criticizing McCain for running a despicable campaign?
August 28, 2008 1:58 PM | Reply | Permalink
Precisley. Caraville is sooooo easy to read. He is the Clintons henchman. They are the only Dems he is loyal too. All other Dems are nothing but obstacles standing in the way of Clintons 3rd term as 'Hillary's husband".
August 28, 2008 4:14 PM | Reply | Permalink
BTW, you guys. Harold would be much better as a Senator than any Repug.
Just my two cents on that.
August 28, 2008 11:39 AM | Reply | Permalink
Well, that's not much of a measuring stick!
August 28, 2008 1:05 PM | Reply | Permalink
""And the corrupt Blackwell took care of it.""
I want more details on this. And I want Blackwell in jail. I hate that guy.
There's a quote where Bush once said something like: "Ken Blackwell? That guy's crazy..."
You know you're rotten when Bush thinks you're crazy.
August 28, 2008 12:28 PM | Reply | Permalink
Still interested in details. Still looking for answers to my questions posed.
August 28, 2008 12:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
Wow, what a revelation, however most of us suspected it based on the fact that his wife Matalin was one of the most influencial Republican operatives at the time and still is. Carveille is a rat with a capital "R". He has been letting it show.
August 28, 2008 1:01 PM | Reply | Permalink
Blackwell will go to jail, along with Rove when their is another Department of Justice that is willing to enforces the laws. That is what these rats are so affraid of. Karl Rove and Gonzo should be at the top of the list. Rove is desperately trying to save himself.
August 28, 2008 1:14 PM | Reply | Permalink
So you don't think the Rats will say "Let's just move on-- people are tired of partisan bickering. Let's get together with the Pukes in a spirit of bipartisanship."?
August 28, 2008 1:26 PM | Reply | Permalink
By the way I hope that these future jail birds don't take much relief in John McCain. McCain won't pretect them, he won't have the Congress votes.
August 28, 2008 1:15 PM | Reply | Permalink
MJ, back this up with something more than innuendo and gossip.
I agree that Carville has drunk his own kool-aid and become a caricature of himself. But I need more than this to even come close to believing it...expecially since you're not exactly a trusted source.
August 28, 2008 2:14 PM | Reply | Permalink
You got google In Oregon? Look it up yourself.
August 28, 2008 2:46 PM | Reply | Permalink
Has Kerry talked about it? Have you heard Carville talk about it?
August 28, 2008 2:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
Look it up.
August 28, 2008 2:50 PM | Reply | Permalink
Why will you not simply give a link? I believe that surely you have one.
August 28, 2008 2:55 PM | Reply | Permalink
I don't. It's in Woodward's book. That is my only source. I can't link to a book.
As for Carville trashing the Dems. Here is that link.
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/08/25/carville-dems-wasting-first-night/
August 28, 2008 3:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
http://blog.newsweek.com/blogs/stumper/archive/2008/08/27/alter-on-carville-only-slightly-less-popular-than-mccain.aspx
August 28, 2008 3:04 PM | Reply | Permalink
So Carville says the first night was not good. That's "Trying to sink Obama."?
August 28, 2008 3:13 PM | Reply | Permalink
That's the extent of Rosenberg's "evidence". People think Carville's a big mouth. That proves he's a spy for the republicans, of course to people like Sleeper and Rosenberg, anyone who isn't willing to cut and run from his convictions when the wind changes is a spy and a shill for someone, somewhere...they just have to be, because that is what they would do.
August 28, 2008 5:13 PM | Reply | Permalink