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Liberal Media! Run Away!

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This is exactly the crap that drives liberals crazy about the "Very Serious People" over at TNR.  Yes, Rachel Maddow getting her own show is indicative of the trend toward ideological cable news.  But unless Sacha Zimmerman has some plan for ridding the world of Fox News and fundamentally changing the political DNA of our country and its media markets, denying her a show because of this would amount to (continued) liberal unilateral disarmament.

And more importantly, Rachel Maddow, while obviously liberal, is the person on cable least likely to further the actual problems that Zimmerman believes come with this increasing media polarization: "that we are more and more retreating to our comfortable trenches and refusing to acknowledge anything but spite, paranoia, and conspiracy theory when it comes to the other side" and "knee-jerk reactions" passing "for smart commentary."

She, unlike almost every other political pundit on television, is rigorously fact-based, refreshingly unhackish when it comes to defending or attacking the Democratic Party, and rarely goes with easy vilifying of those with whom she disagrees.

In short, then, Zimmerman is arguing that Rachel Maddow shouldn't have her own show because Sean Hannity is an asshole. Great.


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After reading some of the approving comments appended to the short blurb on Maddow's ascension, I feel these folks are not superior and disinterested in their balance, but cowed. Why Jon Stewart's "sneering" is bad escapes me, since it is 1) always fact-based, 2) entirely deserved, and 3) somebody has to be less-than-awed by power.

And Rachel Maddow is liberal, but she never is reflexively so. She points out irrefutable failures or inconsistencies, on both sides. That the GOP garners the lion's share of criticism is simply that they are the major screwups these days, and I will not accept the argument that this is a partisan view.

When someone is shooting at you, you do have to shoot back, but you can either use more bullets or simply be accurate. The latter is Rachel Maddow.

I would be interested in a comparative analysis of the intellectual credentials of the major cable news commentators. I've heard that Olberman and Maddow have distinguished academic backgrounds and that Hannity's formal education ended with high school. I'm not sure about O'Reilly and Mathews.

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Rachel Maddow is a doctor (just not that kind of doctor).

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Rachel Maddow was a Rhodes Scholar.

Oh, that's right--I almost forgot, we're being populist today. :

In any case, if you care to, measure the would-be populist by what they stand and fight for, not what their educational, social, etc. background is.

Billy O'Reilly graduated from harvard.

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And?

So, amazingly enough, did George W. Bush...

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Nope. W attended Yale.

Harvard for his MBA.

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Pew recently published a comparative analysis of the intellectual credentials of the audiences of the major cable news commentators and various news resources --

http://people-press.org/report/444/news-media

Knowledgeable News Audiences

Regular readers of magazines such as The New Yorker, The Atlantic, and Harper's Magazine stand out for their political knowledge; almost half (48%) can correctly identify Rice, Brown and the majority party in the U.S. House of Representatives. NPR listeners rank closely behind, with 44% of regular listeners registering a high knowledge score. More than four-in-ten regular Hardball (43%) and Hannity & Colmes (42%) viewers also score relatively high for political knowledge.

In general, well-educated news audiences have high levels of political knowledge; for instance, 54% of regular readers of publications such as The New Yorker, The Atlantic and Harper's Magazine are college graduates, as are 54% of regular NPR listeners. However, a greater proportion of regular readers of business magazines are college graduates (60%), but just 36% answered all three political knowledge questions correctly.

Just a third of regular Rush Limbaugh listeners are college graduates, but this audience scored as well on political knowledge as did regular business magazine readers. Similarly, only about three-in-ten (31%) regular Hannity & Colmes listeners are college graduates, but a relatively large proportion (42%) answered all three questions correctly.

Some highly knowledgeable and attentive news audiences - such as The New Yorker's, Limbaugh's, Hannity & Colmes' or Hardball's - are older than average. However, age is not always a correlate of political knowledge: the CBS Evening News has one of the oldest audiences of the news outlets included on the survey; 63% of the regular viewers of this program are 50 or older. But just 10% of regular CBS News viewers correctly answered the three questions.

The Colbert Report and The Daily Show are notable for having relatively well-informed audiences that are younger than the national average: 34% of regular Colbert viewers answered the three political knowledge questions correctly, as did 30% of regular Daily Show viewers. Less than a quarter of either audience is older than 50 (22% Colbert, 23% Daily Show), compared with 41% of the general public.

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The Right calls CNN the Clinton News Network, yet a right wing radio talk show host, Glen Beck, has an hour show on CNN. Where is this on Fair and Balanced FOX?

CNN had been running part of a McCain speech to the VFW where he attacks Obama, its been on a few times and it runs uninterrupted for 2.75 minutes. I timed it. They didn't follow with an Obama piece. After they ran it last time, 2:50 pm, they went right to a Battle of the Sexes story.

Now they're running a clip of McCain bashing Obama from an oil rig in the Gulf

MSNBC once had Tucker Carlson, Joe Scarborough and Clinton hating, McCain loving, Chris Matthews all on with their own programs. Tucker's ratings were so low they fired him from the show but keep him on as an advisor. Scarborough is on in the morning and between 6 and 7:00am its bash Obama hour.

David Shuster (he of "Hillary is pimping Chelsea" fame) and David Gregory are all Obama all the time and most of it is negative.

If Obama is the subject, and you bring up bad news for him, and show clips of McCain bashing him, as many on Cable do, then your pushing McCain.

Olbermann makes money for them.

Rachel Maddow gets a show? That's a man bites dog story.

When Greta Van Susteren started at Fox, she was a moderate voice and also had an interesting show, but in a short time started towing Rupert's line and lost all credibility with those who can actually think and chew gum at the same time. While I watch Olbermann and get some interesting analysis, his show is more commentary than news. Here's hoping that Rachel maintains her evenhandedness on MSNBC.

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Bushie,

all Maddow ahs to do is follow Truman's words;

"I'm not going to give them hell, I'm going to give them truth and they're going to think its hell."

Actually, it's this kind of hysterical hyperbole over next to nothing that makes conservatives crazy.

In short, then, Zimmerman is arguing that Rachel Maddow shouldn't have her own show because Sean Hannity is an asshole. Great.

Zimmerman didn't say Hannity is an asshole.
Zimmerman didn't say Maddow shouldn't have her own show.
For that matter Zimmerman isn't even arguing, but rather making an observation on the state of cable TV. The only one arguing here is you and your strawman. And you're still losing.
I think Maddow will be a wonderful host (and God knows MSNBC could use a smart woman), but how exciting is it really if she is just preaching to the choir?

That is what Zimmerman ACTUALLY said, which turns out to be complimentary and gracious. You should take notes.

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But he's saying that he's concerned because of the trend, which is most embodied by Hannity, and least embodied by Maddow.

See Glenn Greenwald today for more.

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Oh, Sh@@ter knows Greenwalds work well. He is one of the resident trolls there. He makes for great comedy.

But he's saying that he's concerned because of the trend, which is most embodied by Hannity, and least embodied by Maddow.
Which is an entirely different thing than "Zimmerman is arguing that Rachel Maddow shouldn't have her own show". Zimmerman's piece is about cable TV stations going tribal, not that Maddow be denied a forum.

Pathfinder is correct that I comment at Greenwald's and your post sounded similar. His favorite device is taking something out of context, erecting a strawman, denouncing said strawman in vitriolic terms, one or two sentences saying he doesn't really mean it, and then going ballistic anyway at the close.

This particular episode of his is a classic hit job exactly like the one's done to Klein, Peretz, O'Hanlon, and others deigned insufficiently militant. They are personally derogatory and hateful. While you haven't gone to the extreme, this is cautionary in the need to be accurate and measured.

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But that's the whole point. "Going tribal"?! Gone, past tense. Like, long ago.

This is just liberals flexing enough market power to start to have MSNBC have some sort of real liberal representation. Unless you have a plan to de-tribalize Fox, liberals in American need to suck it up and fight back, not pine for a world that will never be.

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The correct pronoun for Sacha Zimmerman is "she."

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Golis, dude, Greenwald calls you "normally mild-mannered."

haha.

You don't happen to be a super hero, do you?

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That cracked me up. I couldn't figure out if it was a good thing or a bad thing...

It's a bad thing. If you read the piece prior-- "Journalists and their good friends in the White House", you'll see that Greenwald thinks journalists should spend 24/7/365 snarling in people's faces, giving them the third degree.

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I can't imagine why he'd think that in light of how well the whole press/WH thing has worked out these last 8 years.

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shooter242,

Greenwald thinks journalists should spend 24/7/365 snarling in people's faces, giving them the third degree.

After the likes of Jeff Gannon in the ranks of the White House press corps, it would have been a breath of fresh air. But as we may soon learn, once again, robust scrutiny is reserved for liberals and Democrats.

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I guess in the world Greenwald resides it isn't good etiquette to call crap what it actually is...

Oh my God! MSNBC has become the Dyke News Network!

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Nice! You kiss your mom with that mouth? Would you take offense to someone calling BET the "Nigger Network?" Just a thought.

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Gotta love it when humorless self-righteousness provides an opportunity to throw around the N-word.

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Bar Kafka,


you would have done well to go after Norman Kelley too.

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I'm not throwing anything around. I asked him a question. Are you implying that I called him the "N" word? I did no such thing and would not. He chose to use a despicable description of gay women. My question was if he would mind the "N" word, another despicable description, being used to describe BET. Get a clue.

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It must be a slow news day. Other than that, when will people get that the media are in the money-making business just like any other corporation. When it comes down to tell or sell, sell will win every time.

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So if he likes Rachel so much and if "balance" is so much his thing, why isn't he ragging on FOX that they didn't try to hire her first?

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shooter says;

Greenwald thinks journalists should spend 24/7/365 snarling in people's faces, giving them the third degree.

I never saw Greenwald say anything comparable to that. Greenwald thinks journalists should have a somewhat antagonistic relationship with government and be skeptical, not socialize with them on a regular basis. Helen Thomas isn't afraid to break some glass.

Greenwald's take on the Washington Post's White House reporter, Michael Abramowitz, is a classic example of what a White House reproter shouldn't be.

From today's Greenwald

It needs to be shoved into the media's faces and into our public discourse how false and deceitful and artificial are these "Republican Values" and personality attributes that they concoct for themselves.

I'd say that demonstrates my point about Greenwald's aggressiveness nicely.

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shooter,

naturally you omitted the examples Greenwald was referring to. (regarding what they said about Kerry/Heinz)

Here's what you said:

His favorite device is taking something out of context, erecting a strawman, denouncing said strawman in vitriolic terms, one or two sentences saying he doesn't really mean it, and then going ballistic anyway at the close.

No straw men, no taking out of context, no denouncing said "strawmen". He named names and used quotes.

Here's a continuation of your Greenwald quote:

. . It needs to be shoved into the media's faces and into our public discourse how false and deceitful and artificial are these "Republican Values" and personality attributes that they concoct for themselves. To do that, the most prominent right-wing political leaders need to be put under a microscope -- their actual lives and beliefs -- to show how lacking they really are in the virtues they claim to exude and revere.

Just the way the right wing and the MSM shoved the Kerry/Heinz bullshit in the public's face.
You're hiding from the truth in what he posted.


I like Rachel and wish her the best of luck on TV.

My advice to her, however, is don't limit the show to blaming America for everything. Viewers and listeners tire quickly of that format (ask any Air America investor...)

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Why would she blame America for everything when it's so much more accurate to blame Republicans for everything?

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Why would she blame America for everything when it's so much more accurate to blame Republicans for everything?

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Maddow will have enough to do counterattacking Republican bullshit.

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Sounds like a silly concern to me. I admit to not having seen her but liberal or not, from what I hear, Rachel Maddow is just really good and smart, period. Or are there too many such folks on the airwaves these days?

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I'm with you, Dreamer. Zimmerman makes a point of noting that Maddow has "quick, smart takes on the news of the day" as a "savvy commentator", rather than melodramatically making hash out of the news.
And somehow, according to Zimmerman, such a person is automatically a liberal, and we shouldn't have too much of them.

Well, if that's the case (and it probably is), Zimmerman just dissed conservative journalists big time and made the case for having many more liberals on air.

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She has radio time weekdays at suppertime, on various Air America or other network AM and the occasional FM station. Usually 3 hrs, lots of illuminating talk, a bit of call-in, good guests. TV cutting into it some.

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I also think that Rachel is really good at critical thinking. I always want her to talk more and the other guys to shut up for a minute. She may see life from the left (which I desperately need living in Texas) but she gets there logically, not as a left robot as so many other lefties and righties I hear. Welcome, Rachael!

I don't think she will do that well. She good as a 10 minute commentator but, IMO, boring when the center of attention is on her.

You mean like if she had, say, a successful weekday 3 hour radio show?

Radio sucess doesn't necessarily transfer into TV sucess.

I haven't listen to her on the radio so don't know all the INS and outs of her style. What I have seen on msnbc isn't appealing. It could she will modify her style for her show or display an aspect of her personality that she hasn't in olbermann's show. I could be wrong -- we'll see.

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I am very happy that Ms. Maddow got her own show. She is smart, well informed and unlike many in the MSM doesn't repeat dubious republican talking points in an effort to appear 'unbiased'. I really enjoyed watching when she filled in for Olbermann on Countdown. I think she'll do a fine job. And I love the fact that her show will piggyback Countdown...2 hours of objective news coverage. Kudos to MSNBC...imo they made a fine choice selecting her to do a show.

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"Libertine":

i like rachel maddow a lot, but Keith Olbermann is not objective news. he has gone way past objective. he should reign himself in and he would be taken a lot more seriously. he has become a caricature of what attracted many people to his work three years ago.

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Why has he gone way past in your estimation fahrender? Because of his antipathy towards O'Reilly? Olbermann has always been irreverent and at times over the top when he states his 'opinion'. But when he reports on the issues he calls the R's out on their lies, when deserved, rather than giving their factually challenged talking points any credibility...which is refreshing coming from today's mass media. And even if he has 'diminished' himself (which is open for debate) he is still the main reason that people like Maddow, and hopefully many more, who are informed and intellectually honest will have a voice in the media.

Sean Hannity is an asshole, but that has nothing to do with Rachel Maddow.

Desenters are lucky MSNBC is putting up with the jackass Morning Joe show in the morning because I personally like Stephanie Miller's show that had aired after Don Imus was removed from the air. I really had no issue with Imus's show either.

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ms. hilton,

I used to watch that show between 6 and 7am, before switching to C-SPAN, but I finally had to give up on it becasue for that hour at least, it was all Obama all the time and 90% negative.

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