Way To Go! Obama Gives Them Hell At The VFW Today
Obama takes McCain on over the patriotism issue. He's strong, and tough, and angry. In short, he gets it exactly right.
This is the Obama we need to see at the convention. Anger is appropriate, and necessary, when dealing with McCain's slurs. It is equally appropriate and necessary in dealing with the mess the Republicans have made of this country over the last eight years.
Give 'em hell, Barack. It's the way to win, the only way. And it's right.
I'm glad to see you have it in you. Use it!
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He did a nice job. I'm a little depressed that he's been boxed into such a corner that he even has to say stuff like "I love America." Usually that's a given with a presidential candidate. But it's early. Maybe Obama has to say stuff like that now but can be through with it by November.
I thought Obama did a good job today trying to get the campaign back to some issues. With all that needs fixing right now, and I was glad to hear Obama describe the last 8 years as the disaster it was, we shouldn't be having a campaign about who "loves America."
August 19, 2008 1:26 PM | Reply | Permalink
I liked the serious demeanor, while bitch slapping John McCain. Time to lose the rope-a-dope and come out jabbing!
August 19, 2008 1:43 PM | Reply | Permalink
Obama attacks McCain but fails to sway VFW crowd.....Joe Morton of Ohio, who served as a Marine in the Korean War, also said that he thought McCain better understood world affairs. But as did several veterans there, Morton also admitted he had other concerns about Obama, repeating the false rumor that he's a Muslim. Told that Obama, a Christian, isn't Muslim, Morton said, "but his father was."
from McClatchy report on their lead page at http://www.mcclatchydc.com/251/story/49229.html
Looks like two endless wars, a bungled occupation and four thousand dead troops, a resurgent Taliban in unstable Pakistan, $2 trillion more in debt and a sinking economy may not overcome dumb, uninformed and/or prejudiced American voters.
August 19, 2008 1:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
It's sad, but the attitude "but his father was" isn't something you can EVER fight. At best, you can hope (against hope) that the guy's children, or at least, his grandchildren, will be a little more sensible.
August 19, 2008 5:39 PM | Reply | Permalink
This was good. He needs to keep doing exactly this every step of the way.
August 19, 2008 4:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
Obama and other Democrats have to stop opening their comments with effusive words of admiration for John McCain.
If you're going to tell me what a great man McCain is, then say no more, that seals the deal, I'll vote for him.
August 19, 2008 6:26 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yeah, it's an odd message... How dare this wonderful saint of a man question my patriotism! It's frankly beneath his grace to even have to think about my patriotism!
August 19, 2008 6:32 PM | Reply | Permalink
Agree with JohnW, if McCain is an honorable war hero (and white) why vote for the risky showboat black guy with the funny name? I am afraid obama is already too late to frame McCain more realistically=- as an out of touch rich boy who married for money and is 'the man who would be Bush' (from Robert Scheer).
August 20, 2008 12:30 AM | Reply | Permalink
NobleCD says;
I have no doubt a President McCain will take for himself all the power and authority Bush did, with the aquiesence of the Republican and the Democratic Congress; and ya know, that scares the shit out of me.
Pelosi's "impeachment is off the table" gave Bush a blank check to accompany the blank check he already took for himself, and set a precedent for Presidential unilateral power for as far into the future as anyone can see.
Power is never ceded without a fight.
August 20, 2008 1:28 PM | Reply | Permalink
I like the fact Obama hit back. I think that he was far to gracious to McCain. If anyone is putting partisan politics ahead of America's best interest it is Senator McCain trying to use Obama's positions on Iraq in an effort to impugn Obama's patriotism.
I think it is time to inform the American people what McCain is really all about...and I say it should start with a history lesson starting with the Keating 5 and continue all the way to present and the Republican co-sponsor of McCain-Feingold ties to every lobbyist who he can get money from.
August 19, 2008 7:34 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'll give Obama kudos for the Chutzpah for trying to look as patriotic as his audience -the VFW. He should have really given McCain praise for the time he spent in the Hanoi Hilton. He should have given him all due credit and thanked him and the others like him like in the audience. It seems Obama is shooting his mouth and his policies in every direction.
He had a chance for a real Gettysburg moment instead his mouth shot a bunch of dog whistle words only his followers can hear and praise.
August 19, 2008 7:34 PM | Reply | Permalink
trying to look as patriotic as his audience -the VFW.
You are being sarcastic? The VFW which backed Bush 100% in his lies and his two failed wars which have created a school of urban terrorism and a failed state in Iraq, an endless war of attrition in Afghanistan, a resurgent Taleban in nuclear armed Pakistan, a more powerful Iran, a nearly exhausted US military with over 40,000 casualties and.... for what??
The VFW is a bunch of crocks and fools.
August 19, 2008 10:02 PM | Reply | Permalink
Roger Rabid,
Being a member of the VFW doesn't give you a lock on Patriotism or political sophistication. The VFW fawns all over Bush when he visits, yet Bush constantly sticks it up the Vet's asses. Even McCain has a sorry record vis a vis the Vet's benefits
August 20, 2008 1:36 PM | Reply | Permalink
It's what DC Democrats do when they are afraid and it doesn't ever, ever, ever work. Yet they keep doing it. What's wrong with this picture?
August 20, 2008 2:16 AM | Reply | Permalink
He's allowing the game to be played in McCain's territory. He needs to change the subject. He should say "of course I'm patriotic, but does patriotism pay the mortgage, put food on the table, pay the doctor and the school tuition?...Let me talk about security at home, in your home, let me talk about the economic security of your children..."
August 19, 2008 7:32 PM | Reply | Permalink
No. ok maybe if he's submitting a post at DailyKos under the screenname "anon", and even then that statement doesn't get him anywhere. I mean, he was at an event speaking to Veterans of Foreign Wars. I understand your eagerness to hit back at McCain and your disappointment in Obama (and yes, his campaign has been hella disappointing), but painting patriotism as an attribute that comes second to... anything, at a VFW venue no less, is probably not the answer.
Some of these responses show that our collective anxiety is almost at a boiling point. Over the past couple of weeks we've quickly grown so used to the idea of Obama coming up short with attacks, and developing a serious case of golden opportunities lost syndrome, that we now find ourselves itching to put the knife to McCain's jugular no matter the time, audience, venue, etc. A discernible strategy seems to be missing in that approach.
August 19, 2008 11:31 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hardly a great defense, Obama was simply whining again that they are saying mean things about me -- how dare they.
Obama totally ignored McCain's substantive point which was that McCain was correct to urge a strong surge and Obama exposed poor judgment when he opposed it. Don't know if I agree with McCain's views but that's where the policy rubber meets the road.
Either Obama defends the substantive point in some meaningful way or he needs to explain why McCain's claim that Obama took that position only because it would appeal to the peaceniks in the Democratic party and give Obama an edge in the primaries is not true.
August 19, 2008 9:12 PM | Reply | Permalink
AJM says;
McCain totally ignored Obama's substantive point which was that Obama was against the war, while McCain, showing poor judgement, was strongly for it.
If we followed Obama's judgement there would be no need for a surge.
August 20, 2008 1:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
First of all, it's McCain's support for the war that is the example of bad judgment.
Second, the surge was supposed to bring enough calm to allow for sectarian reconciliation, get some agreements worked out AND SIGNED, including oil wealth distribution and a status of forces agreement..... NONE of which has happened.
Conclusion: THE SURGE HAS NOT WORKED!!!
Of course our troops are going to kick ass where ever they go. THAT was not the purpose of the surge. THAT is not the success the surge was supposed to bring. What success are you talking about then?
Running 4 million Iraqis out of their own country and turning them into refugees in neighboring countries?
Perhaps devastating the infrastructure of the entire country so water, sewage, and electricity run on a part time basis every day??
What the hell has the surge succeeded at exactly?
Lower the death count? It's easy to lower the death count when you put up walls and run everyone else out of the country.
Obama had the sense to be against the war from the start and he has kept that resolve throughout the whole misguided war that STILL fools some of you into thinking it was justified.
August 21, 2008 2:33 AM | Reply | Permalink
It seems to me that a lot of the cheerleading and kibbitzing of Sen. Obama's campaign has taken on a manic, even vaguely desperate quality. It's starting to remind me of the Ali/Spinks fight of years back: The befuddled Spinks had about 6 people shouting conflicting advice at him on the stool between rounds. Naturally, he lost.
What Obama "HAS" to do (the only thing he actually CAN do) is to make the best case for himself he can, and hope that the American people can sort it all out, and get it right. McCain has essentially the same problem.
Obama's one genuine (and extremely powerful) argument is the same one he employed so effectively in the primaries: New vs. Old, Change vs. More of the same, Forward vs. Backward - well, you get it. He wins that argument, if he can convince the American people that that is really the MAIN argument in this campaign. He must sell a majority on a premise that seems obvious to me: The current boilerplate political debate is worn-out. It has no chance of settling or solving anything. Everyone on every side of it is as addled as poor Leon Spinks. We need to think anew, and move forward in a new direction to meet the demands of these new and very trying times.
If he allows himself to be drawn into these other peripheral questions (ie: patriotism, experience, religion, race - even issues-of-the-day like oil-drilling and the Cold War), he just might lose.
Actually, he just might lose anyway. That's ALWAYS a risk in ANY election, and you can't allow that possibility to distract you. The idea is that if you must lose, lose with your best game and your best case. Stay on offense, and make the other guy beat you.
August 19, 2008 9:39 PM | Reply | Permalink
I think this is just an opening salvo - a shot over the bow - and there are much harsher criticisms to come - beginning with the convention. Next week, the speakers during the evenings leading up to Obama's acceptance speech will carry the water as far as hitting McCain hard leaving Obama to deliver a positive message of hope and change during what will probably be his most important and most publicised speech ever. After that, I look for the gloves to come off.
And as far as Obama expressing respect for McCain's service and not challenging his character in front of a VFW crowd - and only after paying the expected homage to McCain making his point, seems to me to be well thought out.
To do otherwise would equate to insulting someone's mother and then once you had thoroughly ticked them off expecting them to listen to your reasoning. Better to first say that I respect your mom and all she's done in your eyes, but I've noticed something I want you to think about.
August 19, 2008 10:19 PM | Reply | Permalink
but his father WAS a Muslim! why is it so horrible to admit that?
August 19, 2008 11:34 PM | Reply | Permalink
gretz asks;
Nothing is wrong with that.
Wingnut to Obama: 'Your father was a Muslim."
Obama: "Yes, he was......and?"
August 20, 2008 1:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
What's needed is REPETITION!
Surrogates must repeat the same story again and again for it to sink in. That's the difference btw. Dems and Repubs ... the Repubs all have talking points and all repeat them.
The Dems make a good point ... and it is lost.
August 20, 2008 12:06 AM | Reply | Permalink
A question...
He was speaking to the VFW so did Obama point out McCain's record on veteran's advocacy...or lack thereof?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_dTlxxbnf9Y
And if not why didn't he?
August 20, 2008 1:18 AM | Reply | Permalink
You make a very good point in asking whether or not Barack Obama brought up Panama-John McBomb's consistent efforts to join with his Republican Party in screwing veterans at every possible opportunity. Did he or did he not speak out on this subject? Did he bring up Senator Jim Webb's GI Bill legislation that Scrooge McBomb opposed? If not, why the hell not?
As a victim/veteran of the Nixon-Kissinger Fig Leaf Contingent (Vietnam 1970-1972), I can attest to an adult lifetime of watching Republicans fuck over veterans as easily and quickly as they cut taxes on the weathiest upper slice of America's truly elite oligarchy. If Barack Obama doesn't know about this cynical kind of Republican "patriotism" -- i.e., "hiding behind the troops" -- and won't speak forcefully to the fabricated fraud in front of so-called "veterans" groups like the fat-assed VFW, then he simply cannot grasp the best and easiest way to make mincemeat of Panama-John and the Geriatric Old Poops.
I still have my fading hopes that Barack Obama will pick West Point graduate and Vietnam Veteran Jack Reed as his running mate. Only another veteran and experienced Senator wise enough to have voted against Deputy Dubya's debacle in the desert can aggressively debunk McBomb's "noun, verb, and POW" bullshit and not stand accused of a lack of "respect" for our vaunted Visigoths.
Panama-John never learned a thing of value from his military experience in Vietnam. Senator Reed and legions of us other veterans did. We never forgot the bitterly learned lesson: namely, "DON'T DO IT AGAIN!" Consequently, Dimwit Dubya and his stud-hamster vendetta against the toothless Sadam Hussein never fooled us for an instant. Many of us veterans support Barack Obama because he too had the necessary skepticism -- and courage to publicly enunciate it when it counted. McBomb the war-loving plane-crasher needs his own credulous, shoot-from-the-lip cheerleading for unforced debacle exposed and hammered home relentlessly. I think a vice presidential running mate like Senator and veteran Jack Reed can do that job of deconstruction admirably. I see few other of the oft-mentioned candidates for Number Two who can.
Anyway, thanks again for mentioning another (possibly) missed opportunity for Barack Obama to change the narrative, go on the offensive, and stop waiting around for McBomb and the rethugs to hit him with more dirt before he starts defining McBomb as an addled-brained war-lover whose Phil Gramm "trickle down" economics smack more of Herbert Hoover than anything the repugnant ones have dared to shamelessly champion since Ronald Reagan learned his "supply side" voodo-economics from off a restaurant table napkin sketched by the appropriately named Arthur Laffer.
August 20, 2008 3:06 AM | Reply | Permalink
Wow. I can't think of much to add to that. Great post.
I have given up hoping that people are smart enough to see through John Crypt Keeper's B.S. It is inconceivable that anybody can look at that relic from 2 generations ago and see Presidential timber. Jesus, every time that guy smiles I shudder. He is repugnant in policy and apparently willing to do and say absolutely anything to defeat Barack Obama. Take off the kid gloves and pound that idiot to dust. It's time to take advantage of our strengths and not let some jagoff who didn't get laid in college define our candidate. Period.
August 20, 2008 11:10 AM | Reply | Permalink
Obama should work these words into every speech:
"John McCain is a Republican, I'm not."
August 20, 2008 2:13 PM | Reply | Permalink