First Draft of New TPM Community Tools
We've been sketching out some new features for the site and we need your feedback.
Over the last six months we've listened very closely to your constructive criticism of the site, even if we haven't always been able to address problems as quickly. So the following changes, which we'd like your feedback on, are meant to address what have been the two most persistent complaints -- that the blogging interface is too buggy and that there's little way to follow the discussions you're participating in.
So, the changes are relatively simple. The first is a new approach to reader blogging: a consolidated profile and blogging page and a much improved backend interface for putting up your posts. The second is an interface to allow you to keep track of the discussions you participate in here at TPM and the people you think are making interesting contributions.
Pictures and further explanation after the break.
So, first the reader blogging. We know the interface for putting up your posts is frustrating and insufficient. We've been hashing out a new system that should dramatically upgrade that and give you an interface similar to the one we have here on staff. You'll be able to embed video and photos, use html (gasp!) and preview your posts before you put them up. More to come on that in the future, but I wanted to make sure that you knew that before moving on to how it will look.
Your blog will be much more customized. First, we've consolidated your profile and blog for the sake of simplicity. At your blog, you'll be able to click the tabs at the top to toggle between your posts, your comments, and your recommendations. In your sidebar, your readers will be able to see your general information and your favorites. At the top, you'll be able to name your blog whatever you like.
(CLICK THE HERE FOR THE FULL IMAGE)
Second, by popular demand, we've created a Community Dashboard. This will allow you to keep track of discussions you're in and people you like. If you choose to "follow" someone (by clicking "follow" on their profile/blog page), you'll see all of their activity listed in reverse chronological order. That includes when they post, when they comment, and when they recommend an article. At the top of the Dashboard, as with the blog page, you can toggle through to see only posts, comments, or recommendations by your friends. On the posts and comments pages, you'll be able to see the beginning of the actual posts or comments themselves. Our hope is that by allowing valuable community members to gain a following, you'll have a built in base of people to recommend your posts and an audience for your comments and recommendations.
In addition, with the Community Dashboard you'll be shown any time someone responds to a comment of yours. That way, you can easily follow and jump back into threads just by clicking on the link. We know this is something you all loved about the old Drupal site and we hope this works.
(CLICK THE HERE FOR THE FULL IMAGE)
So what do you think? Ignore the messiness of my sketches, things will look pretty once we do the graphics design. But like I said, this is a first draft, so don't hesitate to let us know what you think is missing. What do you want to make your experience better? What are we missing? And, heck, what about it do you like?
Let us know.
Glad to see this is coming together Andrew--looks really good.
August 15, 2008 7:46 PM | Reply | Permalink
Awesomeness. Any idea of when yet? (I assume the best answer you can give is still pretty vague!)
August 15, 2008 7:59 PM | Reply | Permalink
I don't want to give you a why yet, but our goal is to have it up well in advance of the height of the election craziness in October.
August 15, 2008 8:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'll be tickled pink as soon as we get a preview and/or edit function for comments/blogs.
August 15, 2008 8:02 PM | Reply | Permalink
^^THIS!!!^^
August 18, 2008 12:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
Thanks, Andrew! These changes look really good, and I particularly like that, as before, we'll be able to see when someone has responded to a comment. That's a feature that's been sorely missed.
Here are a few more things that need attention in the bug department:
1. When using "blockquote" formatting, one has to manually add paragraphing or everything will turn up in one giant paragraph. I know there were problems with the HTML editor at the old site, but having none is far worse (especially for those of us who don't have much knowledge of HTML.
2. The search function doesn't appear to be working. The changes you're working on now will probably alleviate the problems with that somewhat, since it sounds like it will be far easier to find people and posts, but even so, a working search function is probably something fairly important for the site to have.
I'll be eagerly awaiting the new changes - thanks again!
August 15, 2008 8:45 PM | Reply | Permalink
This all sounds great, Andrew; I must admit I thought you'd given up. The only other thing that comes to mind that would be really helpful on long blogs particularly is a highlighted function for unread posts.
Is that possible at this site? It is really a time-saver. Anyway, thanks again for all the hard work; looking forward to the changes.
August 15, 2008 9:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
Cville, do you mean, for like read and unread comments? I think I know in general what you mean. Basically, the answer is maybe. What's been challenging for us on this front is not the software but that we don't have as much hardware capacity as a lot of big sites do (i.e. $$$$). And that makes these sort of dynamic functions -- as opposed to static pages that appear the same way to everyone -- harder to pull off. But we're making some big hardware changes coming up soon. So if it turns out to be possible we'll definitely do it. Josh
August 15, 2008 10:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
Perhaps you should think about asking your loyal readers for contributions again.
It seemed to help when you were getting the site off the ground, so why not ask again?
Radio station WNYC has asked for special funds for capital improvements from time to time, besides their usual NPR pitching.
August 15, 2008 10:34 PM | Reply | Permalink
I second that. For features I will pay. (Ads pay for themselves.)
August 16, 2008 10:40 AM | Reply | Permalink
Yes, that is what I mean; like it used to be at the old site. Hope you can do it, and I appreciate the effort.
August 16, 2008 10:39 AM | Reply | Permalink
These improvements sound good. I must admit that I would be more happy to see the basics taken care of. I'm still, more often than I'd like, denied the ability to post by goofy password demands on pages that have already I'd me. I have found that. I have found that clicking "comments" is a dead end. My posts are not accepted. Whereas if click "Read More", then I can post. This has gone on way too long.
And how about the ability to preview? TPM is the only site I post on that doesn't allow it.
In other words, I'm thinking TPM needs to take care of the basics more before moving onto the bells and whistles. But any improvements are welcome.
August 15, 2008 10:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
How about a few more HTML tags in "Comments"?
"Strikethrough" would be nice. "Line break" and "Center" would be nice, too.
August 15, 2008 11:30 PM | Reply | Permalink
"Strikethrough" would be nice.
Elll...en, puh....leeze!
You are already sufficiently formidable without the addition of snarkthro..er, strikethrough to your rhetorical arsenal...
August 16, 2008 1:33 AM | Reply | Permalink
It was just a thought.
August 16, 2008 3:11 AM | Reply | Permalink
just a thought
You present "demure" like Bottom presents "wall": Unconvincingly.
August 17, 2008 10:19 AM | Reply | Permalink
That's a Shakespeare reference, isn't it? And damned funny! Thanks, Jolly -- made me laugh.
-- ARG
August 18, 2008 5:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
Shakespeare reference
If I may be permitted the conceit of quoting myself,"All the guys on this board talk fancy to Ellen"
http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/04/15/the_crisis_of_american_finance/#comment-2730003
August 20, 2008 2:09 PM | Reply | Permalink
Be still my heart! These changes sound fabulous and I'm looking forward to them. It will be great to embed a vid or pic in a post particularly. My wish list includes:
An ability to store a few photos in your profile, like you can on Politico.
Ability to edit a post after submitting it.
August 16, 2008 12:53 AM | Reply | Permalink
August 16, 2008 1:00 AM | Reply | Permalink
Ability to edit? You wouldn't need it as much if we had ability to preview. Again, this is the only site I post on that doesn't have preview.
August 16, 2008 11:40 AM | Reply | Permalink
Good point.
August 16, 2008 12:40 PM | Reply | Permalink
Looks good to me. But then again I usually just roll along with whatever changes are implemented, lol.
The more tracking options for threads/comments the better imo. And I agree with Ellen I'd definitely like to see more HTML tags. Especially a 'hyperlink' one.
8)
August 16, 2008 12:57 AM | Reply | Permalink
I second the votes for preview and more tags. Blockquote, especially, seems like a random factor. Sometimes you gets what you intended, sometimes you don't. I'd like to be able to see my stuff before releasing it into the wild.
August 16, 2008 1:37 AM | Reply | Permalink
Though I am a frequent critic of this site, I have to disagree with you and say that blockquote is one of the few things I DON'T find problematic here.
Hint: copy the blockquote tag from above the text window and paste it twice. Then, type a forward slash between the angle bracket and the b on the second tag. Then paste your quote. Works like a charm.
August 16, 2008 11:43 AM | Reply | Permalink
@ sTivo
Actually it doesn't if you are using the "P" tag. Nor do the "P" and "br" tags work consistantly...although they seem to be better than formerly.
And it would be nice to be able to use basic formatting tags like "B", "I", "S", etc.
August 16, 2008 1:56 PM | Reply | Permalink
I never use the p or br tags here and haven't found a need for them. Just skipping lines works well enough. Note what it says above the window - the supported tags are b, i, a href, and blockquote.
August 17, 2008 7:13 AM | Reply | Permalink
Oh, I see, you're saying it doesn't do multi-paragraph blockquotes? I may not have tried that. I guess I usually try to keep my blockquotes shorter. I suppose you could work around it by blockquoting each paragraph, but that would definitely be a bandaid.
August 17, 2008 8:17 AM | Reply | Permalink
I'm so glad that you will still be keeping a segment called TPM Today with the "most discussed" and "the most rec'd." I would hate to see this change become the ultimate enabler of insiderism of the worst kind. Yes, I know we don't like certain posts and some may not want to read the posts not commented upon, but every first time poster deserves a chance to be read and rec'd or not. I just don't want TPM to lose that rough and tumble quality which I value.
August 16, 2008 1:40 AM | Reply | Permalink
What are we missing
In house communication system.
August 16, 2008 1:41 AM | Reply | Permalink
It sounds way ambitious, but go for it.
In the new version of Recent Reader Posts, it might facilitate browsing the list if jeezly-long submissions were truncated after a reasonable number of words, with a (Read More) link inserted.
Coupled with a Preview function, that may even inspire posters to edit themselves down to a readable length.
A moderate amount of moderation would also be appreciated: People hawking new versions of video games should be deleted and banned.
And it would be great to reward quality posting by featuring a few Editors' Pick on the TPM front page. Maybe also the day's Most Recommended reader blogs.
People appear to find the blog-post buttons easier to master than actual html tags. Could we make that system universal?
And a link to a FAQ or Help or About Us section might be really useful, especially to newcomers to the site.
TPM is already highly addictive; your proposed changes can only make it better/worse.
August 16, 2008 4:10 AM | Reply | Permalink
Josh, Andrew et al,
Thanks for all you do in providing us with the forum.
August 16, 2008 9:47 AM | Reply | Permalink
This is welcome news. I really thought you guys had given up on this part of the site.
Still want a preview/edit function for comments as well as blog posts.
You already addressed the issue of having comments marked as read or unread. I understand that it's a hardware problem but the old site had this function.
Also, I miss the ability to exchange private messages with other users.
August 16, 2008 10:27 AM | Reply | Permalink
miss the ability
Likewise, and I can cite the usefulness of the system, especially since we have here and there policy powerhouses (eg, Steve Clemons) who have used that system (when extant) to facilitate the interaction of TPM users with his hoity toity friends, (for which we are grateful).
August 17, 2008 10:27 AM | Reply | Permalink
Maybe it is silly for a non-geek to ask this but I am curious about what would allow a preview function to be set up in the blog post area that wouldn't work for comments on threads. Is this a "dynamic" issue of the kind Josh was referring to in regards to highlighting new comments?
My curiosity leads me to a more practical question:
If I use the blog text box to compose a comment, use the preview function to get the format to look right, and then copy and paste from the blog text box into a comment box upon an existing thread, will the format be the same as shown in the preview?
If so, then TPM will have provided a preview function for comments.
August 16, 2008 11:24 AM | Reply | Permalink
I'm a geek and this is not at all a silly request. Most other sites with comments have a preview function and have had it for years.
I have to say that the web designers Josh hired are simply behind the curve technically and have plagued this site ever since the makeover earlier this year.
Hopefully, they're learning as they go and this next makeover will be better.
August 16, 2008 11:46 AM | Reply | Permalink
Well, I was asking my questions from a narrow perspective and it may be that I misunderstood Mr. Golis. I understood him to mean that the proposed blog post function would have a preview feature while the comment section would not. I should have asked if that was the case first.
For myself, I will take advantage of any improvements the new set up will bring and try to work around the rest without worrying too much about what is happening behind the curtain.
It sounds like the changes will permit certain conversations to last longer and permit more comprehensive responses. The pace is fast and stimulating but I am a slow thinker....
August 16, 2008 5:47 PM | Reply | Permalink
After eight years I would like to be more than an "unknown user". That's all...and be able to blog...that's all, to be able to blog and be more than an "unknown user"...and health care. That's all.
August 16, 2008 12:04 PM | Reply | Permalink
I like the visual style. I hope you implement that.
August 16, 2008 12:14 PM | Reply | Permalink
In addition to all the great changes, it would be very nice to have a page of instructions for how to use the site. Some of us don't know how to link and block quote and format stuff!
August 16, 2008 1:34 PM | Reply | Permalink
Maybe some of the experienced commenter/bloggers could collaborate to help make these instructions.
August 16, 2008 5:56 PM | Reply | Permalink
I bookmarked this post by Ben Hocking as my goto source for formatting tricks:
http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/talk/2008/06/a-guide-for-users-of-tpm.php
But an official one would be nice too.
August 16, 2008 6:49 PM | Reply | Permalink
These changes sound great.
I'll only echo what multiple readers have said: a preview function would be outstanding.
Oh, and world peace, of course.
More seriously, I would be perfectly happy to contribute $$ to help this endeavor along.
August 16, 2008 3:22 PM | Reply | Permalink
I see two or three names I recognize. Any other oldtimers lurking out there shaking their heads and laughing?
sPh
August 17, 2008 9:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
1. I hope the finished product is a little more polished than the scribbles on paper there.
2. It would be nice if the HTML here was compatible with the HTML used by the big Blogging editor tools like Blogger, Word Press, ScribeFire, etc.. There is nothing worse than cut'n'pasting something only to find you have to re-edit the entire thing because some part of it is not compatible.
3. Up at the top of the comments - perhaps, beside the permalink for the diary - there should be a button to jump down to the comment form at the very bottom of the page. And down by the comment form - perhaps, beside the send button - there should be a button to go back up to the top. Both of them should be able to be used while you are filling out the danged comment and trying to reference the danged diary.
Thanks in advance for listening to or ignoring these issues. Whichever you happen to chose? :)
August 17, 2008 11:49 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hey, Andrew. Here are my first impression comments on the proposed changes.
I'm not that into having my own blog here. I mainly read TPM as a source of news. Motherblog first, then Muckraker, then ElectionCentral, then Cafe'. Sometimes I have time for just headlines, usually the stories, too. I like to read and post comments to the stories, when I have time, but I don't always have time. (Never enough time for Cafe' as I'd like. Actually read the books? As if!)
My main request would be that when I open a thread I've already read and/or posted on, I can tell the new comments from the old stuff I've already read. We could do this on Cafe', back in the day, but not recently.
I'm not sure I understand the Dashboard idea completely, but I worry that it will lead to mini-communties and cliques, and not the free and open-to-all discussions that we have now.
I don't want another facebook site. I just want the best source for keeping up with the news I care about -- and a watchdog that ensures the bastards aren't getting away with anything. That's TPM.
And I'll send a contribution.
-- ARG
August 18, 2008 5:37 PM | Reply | Permalink