Not to let bloggers off the hook, but 'labor' has become an example of out-of-sight-out-of-mind. Because I'm so ancient, I remember the not unusual sight of picketing workers. Hell, during Truman's presidency the entire railroad workers union went on strike, stopping all rail traffic across the country.

It seems to me that Reagan effectively 'killed' unions. But the question remains that since he wasn't the first to try, was there something going on in the labor movement at the time which resulted in the labor movement being where it is today - practically dead in the water.

Nathan, I am sympathetic to the general thrust of your comment here. I'm not bothered by the substantial amount of attention FISA is getting in the blogosphere--it's an important issue. But I would like to see more attention paid to the issues you are highlighting. It's not a zero sum situation.

On the relative emphasis point you're making, I agree. It is exactly what those fostering the stereotype--inaccurate and insulting in that it suggests only those with more formal education care about our liberties in this country--that the Democratic party is the Starbucks party would predict. That sort of message resonates more when Democrats have the weak identity we have had on economic security and opportunity issues for a long time now.

I remember Jo-Ann Mort, near the founding of the Cafe, drew pretty much no response when she asked what the blogosphere might do to actively support the labor movement. It was the virtual equivalent of a lot of "blank looks" in a FTF talk.

But here's where we seem to differ: I don't have a sense that most folks here are indifferent on the economic issues. In fact, one thing I like about the folks who hang here is that it seems to me there is a lot of concern about the direction in which the economy is headed and the future of the middle-class job base in our country.

I just think that for a college-and-beyond educated crowd such as seems to be predominant among those who write (not necessarily visit) here, in many cases basic knowledge about the union movement and labor law is often lacking.

You can put a negative spin on that if you wish and say people aren't interested in or motivated enough to look into it. But I think the more productive approach is for, say, you or Jo-Ann or both of you to provide some basic background information on unions, why they're important, what the evidence is on their positive effects, and maybe most importantly, why they are--or how they could become again--highly relevant and have a future in our country in 2008 and not just be a thing of the past.

I think a psychological barrier some of the degreed folks may have in relating to them is a perception that they are anti-intellectual. A related cultural or subcultural barrier is that people with advanced educations tend to think they both want to, and should, think for themselves on issues and are mistrustful or skeptical about going along with someone, anyone, else's point of view in lieu of deciding matters on the merits for themselves. That I think is seen as adopting a kind of a herd mentality that is seen as inconsistent with how they see themselves. People need reasons and explanations and are unwilling to just go along based on faith or someone else's assertion that supporting the labor movement is a good thing.

Unions have a historical legacy of often being retrograde on race and sex discrimination issues, and that does not help. A lot has changed and Jo Ann's book Not Your Father's Union Movement explains that.

The best primer I've come across on labor law, both as "on the books" and as how it is playing out in real life for American workers in our times, is Lance Compa's 2004 book Unfair Advantage.

But, really, perhaps twice weekly columns, by you and/or Jo-Ann, could help inform more folks who I think would be genuinely interested. One could be called "Labor Unions 101." The other could be on current developments of import.

Just a thought. Really, I think at least some folks here would read--not necessarily a lot of comments at first, because the content is still going to be relatively unfamiliar to a lot of folks.

But I think if you and Jo-Ann can help at least some folks here begin to understand more about the union movement, and also begin to feel connected to it, as though they have a stake and can play a role in its revitalization, that is all to the good. I am pretty sure you would get some terrific, challenging questions, too.

Folks here, if they have basic information, are quite capable, I would say likely, of helping to advance discussion about philosophical adjustments, new structures, etc. that might advance the cause of working people in our country generally. Larry Mishel of the Economic Policy Institute, a pro-labor think tank, Richard Freeman, and Joni Hersch pulled together some thinking that might be useful in grounding such discussion in their 2004 book,

Cops, teachers and prison guards are not real union members? What do you mean by that?

Of course most blogs do not take labor issues seriously. Most bloggers are well-educated, white collar types that have no affinity or connection to the world of labor issues. It's just problematic when all the "communicators" are folks who don't have any connection to that world.

My attitude toward unions is basically, "What have you done for me lately?" The last person I knew who was in a union was my grandfather and he died five years ago. Unions continue to decline in relevance for American workers--still fewer and fewer people are members of unions.

As our industrial base continues to move to China and other parts of the world, unions will probably continue to decline in importance here in the United States. I would have more sympathy for unions if they were trying to internationalize themselves. After all, as long as globalization and free trade continue to expand, shouldn't they be matched by a global labor movement? But that's not what unions are trying to do, is it? Unless unions make themselves relevant, it is very likely that their utility as a form of protecting the interests of the working class will continue to decline.

Unions are supposed to be these great bastions of private democracy in this country. Maybe if a union or two stood up against FISA, I would be more willing to stand up for unions. But that's not the situation we have, is it?

Since many in the blogosphere and here are white-collar middle income people, they have attitudes toward labor and working people that is substantially the same as the GOP - they feel contempt for people who work with their hands, that sweat and labor. They think anyone who chooses physical work over mental work is stupid, ignorant and deserves whatever shit they are dealt.

Then there are people like Ellen, Republicans who hate all workers and hope for increased impoverishment and desperation so wages can be driven ever downward and the already wealthy further enriched. Anyone who uses the espression sucking at the public teat about teachers and police and not about KBR and Halliburton is immoral.

To answer what unions have done for you lately: unions have defended and expanded the minimum wage - an action that benefits all workers. Union workers seldom are paid minimum wage, but they recognize that what benefits all benefits them. Unions have funded civil rights and gay rights campaigns with generous financial support and campaign expertise and assistance, unions have worked tireless on health care reform, worked to protect income security programs like food stamps, medicaid and even social security from right wing attacks....and few union members require medicaid or food stamps.

But since they don't give a damn about working people and have no concept of "an injury to one" they ignore labor and have no idea how actively labor has worked in the best interests of all Americans - not just union members. They have no sense of community and mutual obligation. They are not really progressives, merely liberals.

I think your posts about the corporatization of the Supreme Court are really important. I appreciate the updates.

Which reflects modern elite liberalism too well that you can distinguish liberals from conservatives on a death penalty case, but when corporations are trashing workers rights, suddenly the differences can get a little fuzzy.

I agree on this. It seems the Supreme Court has begun to mirror our corporate-run Congress, rather than act as an independent third branch of government meant to protect the Constitution and our democracy. If we want the Supreme Court decisions to show a better balance between the rights of citizens and corporations, perhaps we need to focus in on electing a responsive Congress that will promote a fairer balance between citizens and corporations.

That's one reason FISA matters--the whole bill, not just immunity. FISA is the government and corporations trashing the due process and privacy rights of American citizens. These issues go hand in hand. If the government mostly works for the corporations and their job is to protect the corporate interests even when corporate interests trash the interests of the people, well...this spying ability could be a real blow to democracy.

If the majority of the voters pay little attention while their members of Congress pass laws like FISA, maybe that results in Supreme Court Justices who abdicate their own responsibilities. Maybe they just say, "well, the people aren't doing much about these abuses, why should we? If we do anything, Congress might try to do an end-run around us and make us less relevant and the people will not be there to support us and assert a proper balance between the branches."

When citizens decide they want a Congress that is responsive to the people and when citizens take action to find better reps, perhaps then the Supreme Court will do their share to protect our democracy and uphold the Constitution.

It's all connected. Our government has definitely slid toward one-branch corporate "culture." Congress is the key because what the people do with respect to the lawmakers in Congress will be heard loud and clearly by the other branches.

I'm sympathetic to the thrust of this post, but why reproduce standard right-wing dismissals of civil liberties as process obsessions of pointy-headed liberals? Preemption seems about as "goo-goo process" as you can get since it can cut either way. And protecting organizing rights often sound pretty process oriented. None of that makes it less important, nor FISA.

Nathan,

Did you or JoAnn blog about the Chamber of Commerce decision (either before or after the ruling)?

It seems horrifying in its scope, almost flatly unbelievable, and 7-2?

That I knew nothing about this until your post is a wake-up call.

(But that's no excuse to bash FISA concerns as "goo goo process"; you know better, and even if you really think that, it's a bad tactical approach if you're trying to build allies here).

As someone who spent 41 years actually working for a living…ya’ know, doing hard, physical, dangerous labor while exposed to the elements, I am confounded that mouthpieces for the ruling 10% have the gall to dss the 90% of us who make up America’s working class. People who control enterprise and interest rates and are part of a network of inter-locking corporate directorates who are assured of their golden parachutes opening on command are part of the 10%. The rest of us comprise the working class. Bank tellers, dish washers, road maintenance crews, teachers, farm workers, "stevedores, steel workers, and coal miners," nurses, social workers, truck drivers, etc., and the unemployed and underemployed all want the same thing: To live in economic security and peace.

One common thread runs through nearly every national debate: the rich are above the fray. Pensions, Social Security, wages, affordable housing, health care, job security, public education, and war are of no concern to the upper crust. Their pensions are large and guaranteed. None will rely on Social Security in retirement. Their wages are off the charts. Mortgage payments are no more than minor blips in their economic portfolios. They get all the health care they require…or desire (Botox and tummy-tucks anyone?). They do not face the pangs of unemployment. Public education is of little concern to them because most send their kids to private schools…all the way through college. And almost without exception, children of the wealthy are missing in action in Iraq, and in the military itself.

People who make disdainful statements like “sucklings at the government teat” seldom if ever personalize the issue. They are always able to justify their incomes and perks…it’s just the other guy’s that they question. I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I - gasp for air – I, I, I, I, me, me, me, me, mine, mine, mine, more, more, more.

Apologists for the corptocracy that runs America whine that its critics are engaging in class warfare. Duh! Could that be because there is class war, and that the preemptive strike came form the 10%? Like I said, the wealthy are not concerned with the basic needs of life. They are insulated.

Lest there is anyone with the audacity to opine – “if people don’t like their lots in life why don’t they go to school and better themselves?” – I have this question: Which among these newly-educated shall we designate as garbage collectors? Who with medical degrees shall we assign to work in the fields to pick crops? What new lawyers will become “stevedores, steel workers, and coal miners”?

The fact of life is that most of us are interconnected. Almost without exaction we all rely on what the other has to offer. (The exceptions being war profiteers, hedge fund manipulators, and similar boils on the backside of humanity.)

Look, I’m 67 years old. I’ve seen quite a bit of life. “Intellectuals” who dismiss the value of any worker are either included in the aforementioned 10%, or else they have chosen to betray their class.

Finally, as I said at the beginning, I’m a working stiff and proud of it. I’m 100% union.

I happen to support Obama.

His vote on FISA was wrong.

Saying his vote was wrong does not equate with not taking labor issues seriously. At this stage of my life I sure as hell do not need anyone making such an assertion I’ve walked picket lines – both for my union and for others. I’ve protested against war. I’ve marched for civil rights and economic justice, I’ve participated in campaigns for immigrant rights. I know my class. And I honor it! If it wasn’t for us, “not a single wheel would turn”.

Ellen -

Hopefully, if you live long enough you too will do something worthy of pride. (It may take you awhile. Here’s to longevity!)

I have mine? You must be referring to peace of mind. Yup, that’s what happens when you have the gumption to get off your duff and help others in distress. Try it. It’s inspiring.

As to another of your comments, the one about a sell out, I suggest you turn the record over. That song is old. That it is a longtime refrain of anti-labor zealots explains why it is still on vinyl.

My apologies to Solomon, but “there ain’t nuthin’ new under the sun”. That includes hackneyed old tales, even when repeated by neoliberal devotees of the small “right to work for less” society.

I independently spend at least 4 hours a day to write labor news on my site. Thank you for writing this, people fail to realize that the labor movement isn't just union workers, it is every worker.

I have recently been writing a lot about the Employee Free Choice Act at my site and spreading it around. When I added a poll to a recent thread about a non union construction company that threatened it's employees with guns if they voted to join the union, I was amazed how many self-proclaimed progressives were ignorant to the Employee Choice Act.

U can go on and on, but I have to work on the site.

You can check out one of the last stories I wrote about it at "Labor bloggers to promote Employee Free Choice Act at NYC Labor Day parade? Strike updates, got a Joe's MySpace, and HR676 US National Health Care Act "

Later,
Joe

Though I don't pretend to know all the ins and outs of labor law, I do offer an intimate view of my own experience as a college graduate, working poor in America, in my latest post on my blog. Most pertinent to your discussion would be toward the end of my post, where I mention San Diego's new Living Wage Ordinance. Also, an official in the city government there has posted a comment you should find important.

Here you go:
http://thomasinapaine.blogspot.com/2008/07/crack-in-job-hell-and-how-light-gets-in.html