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The Pleasure Problem: Do you mind if I smile while I do hateful things to you?

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Here's a troubling question that hangs over the Abu Ghraib story: if you look happy when you torment your prisoners is it worse than if you look unhappy about it -- grim, or at least dour?

Appearances matter, for better or worse, and certainly, the more unseemly a criminal's demeanor the more easily and absolutely we revile his actions. The Book Club commenter who calls himself Munguza argues that much of the public outrage over the Abu Ghraib photographs was provoked by the fact that some of the soldiers in some of the pictures "apparently enjoyed brutally abusing Iraqi prisoners," and "indulged in deliberate, premeditated mistreatment as a form of entertainment."

I address this issue in a number of passages in Standard Operating Procedure, and while I was writing the book, I kept a file, which I called "The Pleasure Problem," in which I compiled the following quotations that didn't make it into the book from Errol's interviews with American military officers:

General Janis Karpinski, who was in charge of detention operations in Iraq at the time of the Abu Ghraib photos, said: "The expressions on soldiers' faces, on Graner's face, on Lynndie England's face, on other soldiers' faces, was what stayed with me. The dangling cigarette. The smile. The thumbs up. What kind of an idiot commits a crime and puts themselves in a picture for evidence of committing that crime?"

Major David DiNenna,, who was the MP operations chief at the prison in the fall of 2003, said: "I think that's what angers me the most, is that there was some type of pleasure in doing this."

Sergeant Hydrue Joyner, the MP officer in charge of the day shift on the Military Intelligence block of the Abu Ghraib hard site in the fall of 2003, said: "Let's just say if I wanted to just outright fuck with some detainees, you know, I'm going to hang them upside down by the toenails and use the old Chinese tickle torture on them -- do I go have a camera because I want to document this? You know, I don't think that I would be stupid enough to share that with anyone. That would probably just go in my private memoirs or something, just for me to be having some shits and giggles, you know? But for whatever reason, they took the pictures and from what I understand, they were passing them around, I guess, showing folks or whatever and making copies and stuff, passing them around like Christmas cards. I just don't understand the thinking behind that. You know, it was strange. I'm just dumbfounded by it ... And, quite frankly, I had no desire to keep any kind of memories of that job, I really didn't. If I could, I'd erase all memory of it right now, you know? Just hit the delete button." So for Joyner the issue wasn't whether the soldiers looked happy for the cameras - it was that the cameras were there at all: "You posed for pictures!" he said. "Next to bungee jumping, that is the dumbest thing I've ever seen."

Sergeant Javal Davis, the only one of the "bad apples" who served jail time for his participation in the abuse of prisoners at Abu Ghraib but who never appeared in any pictures of the abuse, said: "It made me sick - but the mugging at the camera, from a person not being there, it's hard to judge because you don't know what these people were thinking at that moment... It was that twisted, you know, the mind was that jaded, you don't know what's going on. The only judgment that I pass is I wish they would have made little better decisions with the camera and not take pictures of things like that. Don't get involved in stuff like that because that's not our job, that's a little too deep. Well, in the military we say "not our lane."

Special Agent Brent Pack, the director of digital forensics at the Army's Criminal Investigative Division whose testimony in courts martial helped to convict the "bad apples", said: I think Graner was not unjustly prosecuted. He enjoyed it. He enjoyed what he did. That should never happen... You should not take pleasure in other people's pain. I don't care what job you do."

Specialist Megan Ambuhl - now Mrs. Megan Graner - the only one of the "bad apples" who did not get sentenced to jail time: "Sometimes, yes, we laughed about it or sometimes we smiled or sometimes -- you can't always be, you know, serious every minute and, you know, always stoic or whatever you want to call it. Or you're going to have a hard time dealing, coping with the situation you're put in. Because that was a pretty -- that's not a situation you would ever expect to be in or hope to be in or, you know. It's just way out of the realm of possibility. And, you know, a lot of people do smile for cameras. It's a natural reaction. So that can be part of it, too.

In fact, of the hundres of photographs taken of prisoner abuse on the Military Intelligence block at Abu Ghraib, only a couple of dozen depict soldiers who are smiling or appear to be taking pleasure. And it's impossible to guess from the pictures, whether these smiles were a response to the abuse - candidly captured by the cameras - or whether they were a response to the camera. When one fills in the context of the pictures from soldiers' testimonies it becomes clear that a great deal of the smiling and mugging was for the camera - consistent with the manner of posing that the same soldiers fell into in their "happy snaps" of each other at other times and places, with no prisoners around. (Errol Morris has written at length on his NY Times blog about Sabrina Harman's smile, and how - according to the leading expert on facial expressions - it is not a smile of pleasure.)

All the same, there's no doubt: appearing to enjoy the abuse became a large part of the offense of the "bad apples" who were convicted on the basis of the photographs they took of themselves mandhandling, mocking and sexually humiliating prisoners at Abu Ghraib. The handful of photographs that seemed to show soldiers having pleasure while tormenting the prisoners commanded an inordinate amount of space in the press, while many far more disturbing images of greater abuse - the dogs lunging and tearing at the flesh of naked cowering prisoners, for instance - seemed to register a lesser shock. What's more, some of the saddest, most soul-crushing pictures from Abu Ghraib show no soldiers at all - but are portraits of prisoners, stripped and shackled in painful stress positions and left, hooded by a sanbag or a pair of panties, by themselves, in solitude. But these pictures, like the dog pictures, and like all that was criminal about Abu Ghraib that went unphotographed, never seemed to capture the public's imagination or spark its outrage and indignation at anything like the level of the "happy snaps" of torture with grinning Americans.

Those smiles and grins, whatever they signified - sadism or a reflexive response to the camera (compare the grin and thumbs up of President Bush on the USS Abraham Lincoln when he landed to give his "mission accomplished" speech on May 1, 2003)... Those smiles and grins created an enormous distraction from the larger story of systemic abuse, and focused our attention on the individual actors at Abu Ghraib. The expressions of apparent pleasure in torture, coupled with the fact that these photographs were clearly some sort of souvenir trophy photographs, made it all too easy to see the photographs - pictures that were most usefully understood as photographs of US policy, as dictated from on high - merely as images of private depravity. In this way, the kinky surface of those smiles eclipsed our outrage at the depths of the problem, and made it so much easier to scapegoat a few low ranking reservists, while their unsmiling superiors up the chain of command skated away without being held to account.

So, I come back to the question I started with here: Is my crime really greater if I appear to take pleasure in it? Only this time let me pose the question the other way around: Is my crime really lesser, is it somehow mitigated and is your outrage somehow mollified, if I appear to take no pleasure in it?

Because that seems to be how we responded to the photographic evidence of torture at Abu Ghraib. You could get the sense that there was more distress about the pictures than about the things they depicted.


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"if you look happy when you torment your prisoners is it worse than if you look unhappy about it."

Doubt your "prisoners" care one way or the other. But as far as culpability, a crime is a crime, right?

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-Got cut off. If not for the pics, "Abu Ghraib" could be a mythological flying rug weaver as far as the world is concerned.

Prisoners do care if a tormentor takes pleasure. The tormentor's delight in one's pain and misery is an extra level of the torture itself. Not only causing the pain but delighting in watching one suffer from it is a much deeper level of humiliation, where every fragment of showing one's suffering becomes a self betrayal because the watcher is taking such pleasure in your debasement. The infliction of the pain is an effort to break a person, but what is it that is being broken? It is the breaking of one's self as a human being. It is the breaking of hope. It is a loss of faith that there will ever be anything in life beyond pain and suffering and humiliation. And we know now that for some at Abu Graib, there never was anything else because it was the last thing they ever knew. My beautiful America, how could we have ever come to this?

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Of course, you're right, Karela, as far as the psychological torture that many have endured, and I certainly didn't mean to play down the pain of any one we've harmed. We "detained" thousands and thousands and thousands of Muslims in a five year span and how many could have given us pertinent info even if we were able to draw it out? I probably should not have even replied to this thread. I haven't read SOP or seen the documentary. I hate this crap. This is not America. The Commander in charge of Abu Ghraib “remembers” the expressions on the faces of her MPs that she only saw in pictures a year later. My point was that the media would not have pushed the story without visuals.

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Hannah Arendt's phrase "the banality of evil" comes to mind. (Where's Zionista when you need him/her?)

I think the smiles just made the Americans look fatuous as well as depraved. Here was the stereotypical American tourist--juvenile, foolish, arrogant, unsophisticated--but with a sadistic twist. So George Bush, in a way.

The smiles on the faces of the Abu Ghraib guards in the pictures of the prisoner abuse are simply the logical extension of the mentality that encouraged and still drives them. Find also linkage to the minds that came up with the very concept of Guantanamo, and those who authorize and defend "harsh interrogation techniques" for their supposed efficacy.

And what of that efficacy? History shows us that torture does not work as an interrogation tool. Time and again, that has been conclusively shown.

So what, then, drives such things?

There is a dark place in human nature, especially in those drawn to positions of power, that relishes the infliction of misery. We see it reflected as well in those who make the policy decisions that serve the short-term interests of the wealthy while consigning the rest of us to ever-shrinking slices of what remains of society. Make no mistake, the suffering of others is food and drink to these people. And the very thought of meting out carefully measured doses of pain and humiliation dilates their eyes and speeds their pulses.

At the end of it all, this is what our November election is about. Do we continue down this path with McCain, who, despite his protestations and posturing, wants to continue this disturbing trend (perhaps in some misbegotten personal quest for revenge against those who did the same to him decades ago) or do we finally turn them out?

While Senator Obama will likely not deliver everything I want or hope for in January, I do not doubt he will restore some basic humanity to our policies. I do not for one moment believe he is inclined to continue torture as a policy. He knows better, and his entire working life leading up to this moment has been aimed at bettering, not worsening, the lives of others.

I'll take that as a first step.

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All the same, there's no doubt: appearing to enjoy the abuse became a large part of the offense of the "bad apples" who were convicted on the basis of the photographs they took of themselves mandhandling, mocking and sexually humiliating prisoners at Abu Ghraib.

Well, Lynndie England only got three years for her crimes, and Sabrina Harman received only six months. England has been out on parole since March, 2007, and her sentence will be completed in September. Harman has been free since 2005. These sentences appear somewhat less than appropriate, given the testimony. But in any case, it hardly appears that the juries were moved to be excessively punitive on account of the smiles.

Lynndie England did get three years -- and for what? For being in photographs. For embarrassing the Army and the Admnistration. Seriously. Sabrina Harman got six months for taking photographs -- among them an intensely detailed series of forensic shots of the battered corpse of a prisoner who had been killed during interrogation by a CIA agent earlier that day at Abu Ghraib. Her photos are the only evidence we have, outside sealed official investigations, of a death that Army pathologists classified as a homicide. The CIA agent who conducted the interrogation during which that prisoner died has been identified and is living -- as Jane Mayer reported in the New Yorker - at liberty in suburban Virginia. Nobody has been held to account for that murder. And Harman got thrown in jail for taking photographs, when the prisoner testimonies that Nick Flynn urges people to read tend to describe her as her fellow soldiers did as a person who went out of her way to avoid hurting anyone and went out of her way to offer small comforts. (She didn't always fit that description -- of course not -- but it's significant.) Meanwhile Graner got ten years in jail for his part in the crimes at Abu Ghraib. Do you know what courts martial usually hand down as a sentence for homicide in the army? Seven years. But at Abu Ghraib homicide went unprosecuted -- so let's put things in perspective here:
Nobody over the rank of staff sergeant was ever sent to jail for the crimes of Abu Ghraib, which are tied by a totally unambiguous paper trail straight up the chain of command, implicating officers at every level, right to the oval office. Colonel Thomas Pappas, the Military Intelligence chief of the prison who was in charge of the entire base got an administrative wrist slap and docked a few months pay while a couple of reservist guards got thrown in the slammer for years on end. General Ricardo Sanchez who commanded ground forces in Iraq and issued the interrogation rules for Abu Ghraib that -- rules expanding on the rules Rumsfeld signed off on for Gitmo -- which created the license for all of the abuses you see in Graner and Harman's photographs and much more... Sanchez is on book tour right now, saying that he was a scapegoat for Abu Ghraib. Absurd. He skated. The only serious accounting the big shots behind the crimes of this war have dealt with is tallying up advances on royalties while they sally forth to lie their heads off on the talk show circuit.

So yes, the sentences the MPs got reflect a grotesque travesty of justice. I'm not suggesting, and I don't believe, that these soldiers should not have received punishment -- but if they did wrong then there's a whole lot more punishment owed to their higher ups. Everybody likes to say how we've all known since Nuremerg that "just following orders" is not a meaningful defence. But who were we talking about at Nuremberg. Not German grunts. Not untrained reservists. We were talking about Hitler's inner circle. The message of the Nuremberg court was that it's not an excuse for Donald Rumsfeld or John Yoo or Dough Feith or Ricardo Sanchez to say they were just doing the President's bidding. And the broader political message was that the lower level soldiers, who were never held to account for the crimes the committed in service to the Nazi command, were less responsible for those crimes even if they were more soaked in blood than the men behind desks. That has been how justice has worked ever since: in the tribunals for Yugoslavia and Rwanda, it's the political and military high command who get held to account, and the low level hatchetmen are judged by a much milder standard. In America during the War on Terror, by contrast, it seems that the most effective alibi is: Just Giving Orders.

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Lynndie England did get three years -- and for what? For being in photographs. For embarrassing the Army and the Admnistration. Seriously.

That's ridiculous and really calls into question the quality of your scholarship. She wasn't even supposed to be in the detainment area, being administrative. Humiliating photographing or participating in photos is a war crime. She was a conspiratorial accomplice having been aware of these acts on many occasions. She failed to report them. All of which are serious crimes.

It also illustrates the problem throughout this bookclub conversation: too much drama and agenda driven narratives, too little (almost nonexistent) discussion of the objective facts or larger picture, including the chain of command, extraordinary rendition, CIA participation, etc.

This entire bookclub has been a dramatic distration and fluff-fest.

May as well have Dr Ruth and Dr Phil host the discussion on Abu Ghraib.

Is my crime really greater if I appear to take pleasure in it? Only this time let me pose the question the other way around: Is my crime really lesser, is it somehow mitigated and is your outrage somehow mollified, if I appear to take no pleasure in it?

These are the wrong questions, and (with all due respect) silly questions in my opinion, but let me answer them both: No.

Now for the right questions:

1 -- What does it say about the character, training, and supervision of jailers who seem to delight in their inhuman, let alone unAmerican, depravity exercised on their prisoners?

2 -- Does it aggravate the crime when the jailers knew or should have know that many if not most of their victims were entirely innocent, their only offenses being their race and religion?

3 -- Why have public outrage over this series of war crimes evaporated domestically and abroad?

4 -- How can an opposition Congress ignore these abuses and fail even to investigate the upward extent of culpability?

5 -- What sort of a culture have we grown in America that no one is asking questions 1 through 4?

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Firstly, props to Gourevitch for hanging around through Friday to keep our discussion going. I'm sure he doesn't know how unusual that is here at the TPM Cafe Book Club.

Secondly, more props for raising the issue of whether the average bear -- or any of us -- is competent to interpret photographic evidence.

Evolutionarily, we humans have developed the ability to "read" the intentions of others, a useful skill in assuring safety and procreation. But usually, we deploy that skill in the presence of the person whose intentions we are seeking to know. And we don't limit the investigation to a single, crystallized appearance, to one instant frozen in time.

No! We watch for changes in expression; we observe body language; indeed, we may engage in conversation to reach a deeper level of understanding. Our investigation looks at changes over time -- seconds, minutes, hours. A photograph is, however, unchanging.

Those who think that they can look at a photograph and deduce the intentions (the thoughts and emotions) of the humans depicted therein are fooling themselves, fooling themselves the same way unsophisticated jurors (the vast majority?) do who believe they can identify when a witness is lying.

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What interests me is that so many people see the smiles as smiles of pleasure. For all we know they're smiles of relief - the same relief that makes cops stand around and joke and laugh at crime scenes or the way we laugh when we see someone else trip and fall or get hit with a pie in the face - just the sheer, unadulterated, goddamned relief that it isn't us at the receiving end of the humiliation.

I don't know why these soldiers did what they did and I don't think we'll ever truly know what happened. My son is a Lt. in the U.S. army reserves and just came back from Iraq and this is what he told me, "this is the responsibility and the fault of the officers, these soldiers didn't do this because they were bored, we're too afraid of the Iraqis to be bored, these soldiers did it because they were ordered to do it, they should all be in prison."

I might add that he was upset at the title of the book and the next day brought over the army manual and the officers' manual to show me that it wasn't SOP for the army and it had to orders from the officers that made them deviate from SOP. Just thought I'd add that.

You're right that those smiles are not so easily read.And your son is right -- the abuse was not something the soldiers did because they were unchecked, but because they were given license and encouragement to do it. He's also right when he says that the army manuals lay out very clearly how prisoners are to be treated -- and that everything at Abu Ghraib was at odds with those manuals, and with American military doctrine. But at Abu Ghraib it was SOP. Time and again, that was reinforced to us in the interviews -- that these illegal practices had become standard practices. And the title also reflects another aspect of how that came about at Abu Ghraib, the constantly reiterated complaint of the MPs there that "there was no SOP" for Abu Ghraib, which was true -- no guidance of the sort that a soldier expects at a new post.

So, on the one hand, the field manuals and longstanding doctrine had been discarded, undermined, reversed, rewritten, supplanted and run over by a series of policy directives and lawyerly manuevers from the White House on down to the prison interrogation officers in charge -- creating a new SOP that basically mandated war crimes as the new American modus operandi in war-on-terror prisons. And on the other hand there was a seemingly deliberate absence of the sort of basic guidance and discipline that the military's honor depends upon: neither the officers were trained or properly briefed for their missions at Abu Ghraib, there were no standard operating procedures for the guards and the interrogation rules provided to the Military Intelligence staff were at once broad and vague and repeatedly changing. I detail how this toxic setup was constructed in the book -- and it's summed up most succinctly by an MP named Megan Ambhul, who realized that lawlessness as the law at Abu Ghraib, and said that when it came to SOP, "They couldn't say we broke the rules because there were no rules."

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I'm not disagreeing with you, Sir. I bought the book and cannot bring myself to read it yet. I thought I'd give you the perspective of a soldier who wasn't at Abu Ghraib but keenly feels the failure of those officers to maintain SOP. His contention is that the officers were trained in SOP, they had to know SOP and in the absence of orders to the contrary, would have followed SOP, therefore, orders that contradicted SOP had to have been given because in all circumstances unless an officer receives orders to the contrary, the default position is to follow the manual.

In my opinion you are absolutely right. I read Phillipe Sand's article in Vanity Fair about the downward drift of this climate of contempt for the laws of the land, the U.S. Army officers and soldiers who will receive the brunt of the fallout of this failure to follow the rules of the Geneva Convention and anyone who isn't them. I don't know what made them superior to everyone else and why with all historical and anecdotal evidence to the contrary they would choose torture and humiliation as their own SOP. It isn't that we forget history that condemns us to repeat it, it's that we can't forgive history that condemns us - if this particular group of men hadn't lost Vietnam, if they hadn't converged in one place at one time maybe that's what happened, but I tend to think they did it because they could and no matter what we do in the future, we'll never be forgiven for this.

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I think you and several of the participants in this exchange might be allowing your wholly justified outrage over the fact that higher level military personnel and civilian authorities have yet to be held accountable for Abu Ghraib to cross over into a wholly unjustified attitude of pity and exculpation for people who participated in outrageous behavior.

This discussion has also seen the implicit expression of what, to my mind, are deeply snobbish and invidious attitudes: that people like Lynndie England are just poor, dumb Appalachian animals who can't be expected to understand the nature of their actions, and from whom we can’t justly demand a morally developed response to their circumstances. And then there is the suggestion that because England is a woman, she shouldn't be invested with full moral agency, and we should say its all the fault of her evil boyfriend.

How can you say she got three years for just "being in photographs"? She willingly participated in the grotesque brutalization and humiliation of prisoners. So, Lynndie England still hears the screams of torture victims a night. Oh, poor Lynndie England! And the soldiers in the prison were "untrained and unprepared"? How much fucking preparation and training does one need to know it's wrong to put a man on a leash, or parade him around naked as an object of ridicule?

England, Harman and Davis are not subhuman and pre-moral dogs. They are human beings with a normal capacity for reflective assessment of their actions in the light of moral standards that even children have mastered. Even a dumb, white trash yokel like Lynndie England knows what she did is profoundly wrong.

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Why would you not feel pity and compassion for these soldiers? I feel as sorry for the perpetrators of crime as I do the victims. Can't you imagine what it must be like going through life not understanding or knowing empathy for others? If we know it, what must they have missed and are missing in their lives not to be able to feel that? I feel as sorry for Donald Rumsfeld and Doug Feith as I do these soldiers and their victims. They're not leading whole lives as human beings, they're leading half lives without ever knowing what compassion for others is or moral conviction or courage of that conviction - for them, living means survival and doesn't that strike you as a sad and dismal life?

I'm not saying that we have to forgive and forget, I'm saying that we have to forgive because we can't forget.

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I'm afraid I don't have a lot of pity for these soldiers that goes beyond the baseline level pity I feel for all of us as we deal with the frequently shitty world in which we live.

I reject the notion that Lynndie England, Charles Graner, Donald Rumsfeld or Douglas Fieth are deficient in their capacity to understand or know empathy for others. I see no reason to doubt that they are normal human beings with normal human emotions, who broadly understand the consequences for others of their actions.

Like all of us, those normal emotions include capacities for empathy, and also cruelty; for thoughtfulness, and also callousness; for courage, and also cowardice. In the case of the soldiers at Abu Ghraib, the individuals involved acted in obedience to the worse angels of their nature, rather than the better ones.

When people do truly vile things, it is important to identify those vile actions clearly, repudiate those actions unambiguously, chastise those who committed the actions, punish them, and subsequently view the perpetrators with a certain degree of contempt. Exacting this social price, and doing so publicly, is one way we endeavor to deter others from doing similar things.

Stripping a man naked and putting him on a leash I would count as something truly vile. And I think our values and social obligations have gone badly askew if we start viewing the perpetrators of vile actions with the same sympathy we reserve for those who had vileness visited upon them.

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Yes, by all means, let's keep the punishments coming...

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This is not up to the level of many of the comments above, just my slightly different view.

Which is that in 2003/4 most americans approved of using torture-not per se- but specifically in the GWOT. They felt it was a legitimate way to save american lives. And that the torturers were just doing their duty( the Nurenberg principles are mostly unknown to those under 60). This GWOT- linked approval of torture was actually a subset of a more general view that torture is a perfectly valid activity of the state's legal arms: the FBI,etc.

But in the particular case of the soldiers who seemed to be enjoying this activity, americans felt that by that very enjoyment they had removed themselves from the ranks of those doing a painful duty and instead identified themselves as "free agents" voluntarily carrying out that torture , and probably going beyond what was actually required of them. Altho they would have applied that same characterization even convinced that those soldiers were in fact following orders because their enjoyment unermined
the comfortable pretense that we, and our government , are good and only do something as heinous as torture in a "good cause".

So they applied to this handful of "bad apples"
at least the censure they would normally apply to torturers outside of the legitimate activities of the state. But even more than that. Because being able to censure these bad apples was a handy excuse for patting outselves on the back ,allowing us to think we really are good, moral people - "see how critical we are of Graner and co.".

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"Up to the level"? It's above it.

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this is really a very targeted question.

it has to do with whether the person being tortured blames the torturer, who is just following orders, or blames the torturer, who appears to be torturing because S/HE enjoys it.

it's flip sides of the same coin.

a crime has been committed.

the interesting analogy here is to Hate Crimes which punish some crimes more severely because of the particular malice in the mind of the perpetrator.

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Thank you for a valuable if troubling presentation Mr. Gourevich. For a Vietnam era veteran who did not even serve in country, it has reminded me of my moral angst over having participated even tangentially in that travesty. For a draftee it is a matter of survival. One can leave his country and forfeit forever his entire birthright. Or one can refuse to serve and suffer the criminal penalty of forever loosing their standing in society. Or one can serve and hope to survive the insanity and try to pick up what is left afterwards. Regrettably the lessons learned make that impossible. I confess to wanting to survive. I do not fault myself for this and neither can I fault the ordinary troops of your description. I can only imagine how much more of a struggle for survival it must have been for the ordinary soldiers in Iraq. How does one cope with the absence of any consistent guidance, the constant threat of death from all sides and a military leadership that has no regard for the troops. When abandoned by civilization you are left only with the question of what does it mean to survive. Sadly there is no easy answer to that question.

You were wise to limit your book’s ambition and that has made it all the more powerful. Nevertheless it begs for some denouement. I would suggest this. Recall the scenes from the first Gulf War where the hapless farmer/infantry troops of the Iraqi army surrendered hopefully to the coalition’s forces, even to unmanned aerial vehicles. In the future no soldier will surrender in such a way to an America military unit nor should they. It will be a hundred years before we might regain the dignity of our former reputation.

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