Habeas corpus returns!
Apparently the Supreme Court has declared that even Gitmo inhabitants have human rights.
Thank God. I've been ashamed for years to be living in a country that would imprison people without even a hearing on whether there was a reasonable suspicion that they had done what they were accused of doing--a country that had abandoned the rule of law. I want to cry with relief.
Slate's Convictions blog is having a fascinating discussion about the precise meaning of the ruling. To follow the discussion, start here and work your way upward, via the "prev" button.
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I feel the same way E.J.
Surprised a little that there are so few comments on your post.
June 12, 2008 6:44 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'm sure the vast majority of TPMC readers would agree about Guantanamo.
But, most people actually concerned about the issues are probably going to read and post on threads started by experts having been involved with the issue or at least having followed it closely.
Has Graff posted on "the other human rights" i.e. those besides gay marriage? Her being a "human rights" activist, and all. It's nice she's expanding her activism to already accomplished goals.
I also enjoy when Graff cites poll data, claiming it as accurate, despite it having been consistently off by 10-20 points for over three decades. Nothing like tissue thin and easily debunked pandering to inspire an enduring and pragmatic movement towards victory. Didn't MLK always say the way to build a movement is by giving a lot of bubble heads false hope to sell them books?
Maybe Code Pink will throw a Guantanamo party to celebrate the occasion. Oh joy.
June 12, 2008 7:30 PM | Reply | Permalink
ACLU Legal Director Steve Shapiro on the Boumediene Decision. He also recommends Glenn Greenwald's writing on Guantanamo, which have been excellent. (GG being Salon's last good regular contributor.)
http://blog.aclu.org/2008/06/12/aclu-legal-director-steve-shapiro-on-the-boumediene-decision/
June 12, 2008 8:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
From the decision:
KENNEDY, J., delivered the opinion of the Court, in which STEVENS, SOUTER, GINSBURG, and BREYER, JJ., joined. SOUTER, J., filed a concurring opinion, in which GINSBURG and BREYER, JJ., joined. ROBERTS, C. J., filed a dissenting opinion, in which SCALIA, THOMAS, and ALITO, JJ., joined. SCALIA, J., filed a dissenting opinion, in which ROBERTS, C. J., and THOMAS and ALITO, JJ., joined.
Scalia, Thomas, Alito, and Roberts. All were predictably rt wing Republican appointments that passed thanks in no small part to a group of DINOS in the pocket of the same proto-fascist corporate interests as Republicans.
The majority opinion is formed of centrists appointed by both Democrats and Republicans. The sort of judges we should have throughout the court and a clear example of why it's important to elect moderate and non ideological pols, independent from corrupting lobbies and interests.
June 12, 2008 8:46 PM | Reply | Permalink
Okay, agreed. Somewhat.
I'm all for centrists, independents, non-leftist liberals and non-right-wing conservatives on our Supreme Court. If that was our only disagreement, the disagreement is hereby over and we can all leave the playground now (picking up our toys, first, of course).
I am all for justice and balance and clear-thinking and the middle path that Buddha loved to talk about back in his day. Jesus talked about it too. After that, the message kinda got garbled (I think that was the Tower of Babel?) but, hey...we all still know how to get along and talk peaceably in this day and age, I would hope.
If you talk to people peaceably, kosmic, I might talk the same way back at you.
Karma. Kosmic. Karma. Kosmic.
Keep repeating that to yourself. Softly. If you want, you can do like Jesus suggested and pray quietly to yourself in the closed closet door of your own domicile, so long as you still pray to The One that you believe in. The One will see it. Trust me.
June 12, 2008 9:14 PM | Reply | Permalink
Dear Republican, ex-Republican, Buddhist, Christian, goof ball, whatever you are.
I don't really care to be your friend, or have you "swallow my dick." Thanks, but no thanks. Lay off the sauce. Maybe get a shrink.
The last thing we need is more unhinged people with personal problems projecting their psychological issues into the body politic. We tried that. It was called the 60's cultural wars. It produced a generation of ideological idiots on both sides with disastrous consequences all around. No thanks.
As far as I'm concerned, goof balls like you, on both sides, are already a lost cause. Any party you're at is going to suck.
June 12, 2008 9:58 PM | Reply | Permalink
I wish you peace.
June 12, 2008 10:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
lol. All that, and phony too. Quite a package.
June 12, 2008 10:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
Perhaps, you thought that when Lis said "Karma. Kosmic. Karma" she was paging you?
No. She was not.
June 12, 2008 10:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
Tis not often I bother to call-out an online persona for ill behaviour; but you, 'kozmik', are an unmitigated asshole!
Tie a pork chop about your neck & find a doggie to play with you. Or stick a lubed vibe in your ass. Whatever; just chill.
June 12, 2008 11:41 PM | Reply | Permalink
Pork chop?
LisB already made clear all it takes is some combination of "honey, whipped cream, and Kama Sutra oil." Since your fond of anal vibrators, and LisB is lonely, why don't you round up some more closeted Republicans and you can have a proper party?
June 12, 2008 11:57 PM | Reply | Permalink
It's "you're". As in, You are.
Are you still seriously here? Well, gee. So am I.
But this post belongs to a woman who has far more intelligence and grace than you have, so why don't you do us all a favor and take this to the Readers' Posts thread, where it belongs, since we don't have a personal place to go to and E.J. Graff's post was already ruined by both of us?
June 13, 2008 12:08 AM | Reply | Permalink
Well, I've now been spell checked by a woman obsessed with repeatedly posting on "swallowing dick" and her relationship problems to a political forum. Now I've seen everything.
June 13, 2008 3:01 AM | Reply | Permalink
Well, I've now been spell checked by a woman...
Spell-checked? You forgot "and repeatedly pwned."
June 13, 2008 10:20 AM | Reply | Permalink
Ya know, reading your comment leaves me wishing that TPM had either a "report abuse" or a twit-filter feature.
Sigh! Oh for a good unmoderated board whee people can get really vulgar.
June 15, 2008 7:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'm surprised, as well, that no one has commented on this post. Lord knows we all comment about how wrongly we treated the detainees at Gitmo. Now that they have a voice, TPM'ers lose theirs?
I don't get it.
Where in the hell IS everybody???
June 12, 2008 7:02 PM | Reply | Permalink
We should be partying in the streets! I saw the Yahoo headline when I got home from work today, that said, "Bush Disagrees with Decision, But 'Will Abide' By It" and thought, "No shit?! Like he has a choice?!"
Where IS everybody?
June 12, 2008 7:05 PM | Reply | Permalink
"We should be partying in the streets!"
lol. Like I said up thread.
June 12, 2008 7:34 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yo.
Asshole who has nothing nice to say in any of your comments ever (and I know, because I just looked them all up by clicking your name and I see nothing cosmic but everything toxic in every single one of your hate-spewing rants) -- yeah, you.
Get out of my party if you don't want to dance.
June 12, 2008 7:39 PM | Reply | Permalink
Oh, and, uh...by the way? I don't think MLK ever used the term "bubble heads".
But I'm sure you'll correct me if I'm wrong.
June 12, 2008 7:41 PM | Reply | Permalink
From LisB's blog:
"HELL-O-OH! ANYBODY CELEBRATING WITH ME AND E.J.?!!!
I took off my stockings and my slip and my bra is next! I'm dancing around my living room with my dress on and nothing underneath!!!
And y'all still want to talk about Michelle Obama and Whitey?! Y'all still want to talk about how Hillary lost?!
HELL-O-OHHH!"
***
Is this Guantanamo or Mardi Gras you're celebrating?
But hey, party on wild and crazy gal!! Because nothing says "activism" like blogging your party-of-one after the fact. Wooohooo!
btw, Has EJ Graff been a leader on the subject and I missed it? What have you done?
June 12, 2008 7:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
Ooh. You're fun.
I'm gonna like this.
I am not gay, so therefore, you have not yet jumped down my throat with your dick first, as you seem to do to everyone else here who either chooses to love someone of their own sex or chooses to agree with and support those who do.
If you're not familiar, yet, with me personally here at TPM, all I can say is: You don't know anything about me, or how I choose to party, or WHY I chose my party, or HOW I chose my party, and you don't know jack shit about me.
Wanna learn? Keep posting.
E.J., Bluebell, TPMGary, keep partying with me. Because it's our party and we'll dance if we want to, celebrate freedom if we want to, celebrate human rights if we want to, celebrate love if we want to, and dance with nothing underneath our dresses. Or pants.
June 12, 2008 8:04 PM | Reply | Permalink
"I am not gay, so therefore, you have not yet jumped down my throat with your dick first"
Wow. How insane. Great fans you have Graff.
June 12, 2008 8:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
Tonight, unfortunately for me, is the first night that I've read E.J. Graff's posts here. So you really shouldn't consider me a friend.
When I said, "I am not gay, so therefore, you have not yet jumped down my throat with your dick first" I was pointing out:
a. I'm not gay. All of your comments seem to be directed at those who are.
b. You've never trolled me before, that I can recall, so you've never exposed me to your tactlessness and your beautiful way with words before.
c. I left a man who treated me with as much understand as you treat others who don't think like you, and I've grown because of it. I have found my voice because of it. And so therefore, on to:
d. You're a dick, and I can't swallow you. There is no honey, no whipped cream, no Kama Sutra oil with which to enoint you enought to make you easy to swallow. Therefore,
e. I must resist, reject, and denounce you. I have no other choice.
Peace, and sweet dreams (unless, of course, you want to continue this dialogue further, and in that case, I simply wish you peace),
LisB.
Your new friend.
June 12, 2008 8:34 PM | Reply | Permalink
Please pardon my typo's. I was angry.
Please pardon my rant in the middle of an important post that belongs to E.J. Graff and not me.
I'm calm now. And still dancing.
Amen to our Supreme Court's decision today. Gitmo has been one of the most embarrassing failures of our administration's administrations.
Good riddance to it.
Dance on!
June 12, 2008 8:45 PM | Reply | Permalink
Thanks for sharing. I really wanted to know how your personal relationship history formed your opinions and that this isn't a new problem for you. Glad to know anyone you disagree with becomes emotionally morphed into your EX in your mind. I'm sure that will really help you in future relationships and generally promote a sane world view.
June 12, 2008 8:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
That was my apology and explanation to everyone else, especially E.J. Graff.
I have known and loved many good men. I have been known by and loved by moany good men too.
Let's just say.....you're not gonna make the list.
MEN HERE TONIGHT: Tear your ties off! Move them hips!!! Unbutton those top buttons!!!
Democracy is coming! Democracy is coming!
I can feel it in the air, I can see it like a thousand points of light!!! Not even the sight of brocolli will make this former George Herbert Walker Bush supporter of throw up on a Japanese VIP's lap tonight!!
Reagan's shaking head ain't got NOTHIN' on ME!!!!
Peace, liberty, and the pursuit of happily dancing almost naked in one's own private living room march on!!!!
June 12, 2008 9:28 PM | Reply | Permalink
Lay off the sauce.
June 12, 2008 9:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
You rock, Lis!
And kosmic can go fuck himself; his views re celebration cast him as the prototypical repuke.
June 13, 2008 1:29 PM | Reply | Permalink
Ya have to hand it to him, Lis, he takes your beatings and keeps coming back begging for more. Nice job accommodating his masochism.
June 12, 2008 9:30 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yeah, ok. I'm really being humiliated by LizB's diatribes on swallowing dicks. Nice avatar too.
Like I said before: great fans you have EJ Graff.
June 12, 2008 9:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
Understood, and thanks. I'm still dancing in my dress, though.
June 12, 2008 10:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
Don't tease.
June 13, 2008 7:38 AM | Reply | Permalink
Good call, LisB, especially because you really haven't seen the worst of it, you made an accurate judgment without the full poop. :-) He's actually been good until recently, relative to behavior in the past. I really had to laugh when he accused Destor 23 of setting up straw men the other day cause he's like the expert of all times in setting up straw men to argue with. In the old Cafe days, he managed to slowly, one-by-one, alienate virtually everyone from talking with him, with the straw man tactics, trying to make everyone into an enemy in order to argue his points with that enemy. When people started to ignore him, as in "don't feed the troll who makes you into a straw man," he would amp up the vitriol and start with the name calling, see if he could get a reaction from that. If you gave him a downrating for doing that (we used to have comment ratings) he would also ramp up the attack mode. Most of us more long-term members have been called Republicans or conservatives by him in desperate attempts to get us or someone else to respond after we had stopped; he did that to a ridiculous level at times, to even the most liberal, mild mannered members. It's a pity that he's so wed to a vicious adverserial/straw man method, because he often has interesting things to say on topics.
P.S. I'd have put this in a private message if we had private messaging because it's off-topic and for the most part am happy using the "don't feed" method. I decided to post it in public because I don't relish watching deja vus ramp up allover again, given this comment from a contributor in response to an insult jihad from kozmik.
June 12, 2008 9:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
Destor23 was setting up a straw man to attack Obama's policies by totally distorting them.
He first claimed Obama's plan is to require a year's FT work for $4K scholarship, and then changed that to a year of F/T for a $16K scholarship. Both scenarios complete fabrications of Destor's imagination, showing he doesn't have the first clue what he's talking about. Others explained in the thread how it would actually work.
That artappraiser would defend him is no surprise. They both make a habit of nonsense and disinformation, often at the expense of the leading Democratic candidate, and fluff each other often. In fact, when we had ratings, those two and a few others were continually rating each other up.
I guess LisB is the newest member.
June 12, 2008 9:29 PM | Reply | Permalink
Understood. I appreciate your sharing your knowledge, because I'm new here by a few months. I didn't know.
God. This reminds me of when I used to fish off the Long Island sound in one of my ex-boyfriend's 22-foot Bayliner. We bottom-fed. We got a lot of very big and tasty Fluke (Flounder, on the West Coast), but we also got a lot of those damned Sea Robin things. At least, that's what my ex-boyfriend called them...Sea Robins. They were red, like boiled lobster, and they had these sharp and pointy head-fins and side-fins and dorsal-fins and sharp spines and I used to HATE them for robbing my bait.
My ex-boyfriend used to pick them up from the water with his worm-goo-stained, fish-blood-stained rag, and break their necks.
And we used to cheer, together, click our beer cans together (if we'd known about terrorist fist jabs we would've terrorst fist jabbed each other), as we watched those suckers sink to the bottom where they could dwell but eat no more.
But, I digress.
E.J.'s post and it's links and comments and recommends await me. I now leave the bottom of the sea, and gladly swim upwards, towards the sunlight dappling happily upon the waves. Towards the fresh air that seems to carry the sweet smell and taste of Democracy.
Carry on.
June 12, 2008 9:44 PM | Reply | Permalink
Didn't want 'ya to feel lonely (especially since your fellow party goers are so friggin lame!!!).
I celebrated earlier(the news hit the reader posts this morning)!! But this is big enough to celebrate again. Mardi Gras comes every year - restoring the constitution to it's rightful place is truly cause for celebration!
I've been somewhat subdued really - some things are just such a combination of joy/relief that they must be savored.!!!
June 12, 2008 9:02 PM | Reply | Permalink
I loved Matt Frewer's show, back in the day. Max Headroom.
Showing my age.
June 12, 2008 10:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
We are--like Hillary--giving you Obama fans the floor. Where is Obama on this issue? Why has HE not congratulated the Supreme Court and its decision? Why are you asking us to comment when your guy is busy moving further and further to the right? Your criticism is highly selective as it has been all along
June 12, 2008 9:11 PM |