May We Never Confuse Honest Dissent with Disloyal Subversion
Joe Lieberman may lament what he considers to be the shift of the Democratic Party, but he may also want to reflect on how neoconservatives have so dramatically changed and warped the Republican Party in foreign policy.
Spend some time with these lines from Eisenhower, gathered together by regular TPM Cafe reader Michael Beaver. They remind me of Senator Chuck Hagel's anger about reckless wars of choice in the Middle East, his view that we need a new centrist social contract across our nation, that we need to make America an example that inspires others around the world -- not a nation that tries to force feed democracy down the throats of others. This reminds me of the time Chuck Hagel gave a speech for the New America Foundation in which he said posing questions to the White House about matters of war and peace was not disloyal and was absolutely patriotic.
If I was in Barack Obama's shoes and Hillary Clinton had turned down my offer to run as Vice President, I'd go with Eisenhower in a unity ticket -- and because Eisenhower is not available, I'd go for Chuck Hagel. John McCain couldn't put a ticket together to beat that combo.
From TWN reader Michael Beaver's Eisenhower-isms roster:
How far you can go without destroying from within what you are trying to defend from without?-- Dwight D. Eisenhower
I despise people who go to the gutter on either the right or the left and hurl rocks at those in the center.
-- Dwight D. Eisenhower
I hate war as only a soldier who has lived it can, only as one who has seen its brutality, its futility, its stupidity.
-- Dwight D. Eisenhower
I like to believe that people in the long run are going to do more to promote peace than our governments. Indeed, I think that people want peace so much that one of these days governments had better get out of the way and let them have it.-- Dwight D. Eisenhower
If men can develop weapons that are so terrifying as to make the thought of global war include almost a sentence for suicide, you would think that man's intelligence and his comprehension. . . would include also his ability to find a peaceful solution.
-- Dwight D. Eisenhower
If you want total security, go to prison. There you're fed, clothed, given medical care and so on. The only thing lacking. . . is freedom.-- Dwight D. Eisenhower
In most communities it is illegal to cry "fire" in a crowded assembly. Should it not be considered serious international misconduct to manufacture a general war scare in an effort to achieve local political aims?-- Dwight D. Eisenhower
In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist.
-- Dwight D. Eisenhower
May we never confuse honest dissent with disloyal subversion.
-- Dwight D. Eisenhower
Only Americans can hurt America.
-- Dwight D. Eisenhower
The problem in defense is how far you can go without destroying from within what you are trying to defend from without.
-- Dwight D. Eisenhower
Together we must learn how to compose differences, not with arms, but with intellect and decent purpose.-- Dwight D. Eisenhower
War settles nothing.
-- Dwight D. Eisenhower
We seek peace, knowing that peace is the climate of freedom.-- Dwight D. Eisenhower
We will bankrupt ourselves in the vain search for absolute security.
-- Dwight D. Eisenhower
When people speak to you about a preventive war, you tell them to go and fight it. After my experience, I have come to hate war.-- Dwight D. Eisenhower
-- Steve Clemons is Senior Fellow and Director of the American Strategy Program at the New America Foundation and publishes the popular political blog, The Washington Note
Eishenhower?! Who the heck is that?
Come on, he's no Richard Perle, or Norman Podhoretz! Or even Bill Kristol! I mean, come on, has this Eisenhower guy even been published? Who is he, some little known liberal humanist philosopher or something? He sounds like a wussy.
May 23, 2008 11:43 AM | Reply | Permalink
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January 18, 2011 2:54 PM | Reply | Permalink
Eisenhower? Sounds jewish to me.
May 23, 2008 11:53 AM | Reply | Permalink
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Steve, when you write that we "need a new centrist social contract across our nation" I don't know what you mean by that.
I think there is a compelling need in an economy that is going to continue to be rocky well into the future, for a major upgrade of the level of economic security our citizens are provided with, along lines Jacob Hacker suggests in his outstanding book The Great Risk Shift. (And I know you have had Hacker present at The New America Foundation; I attended his talk there.) I think this is true regardless of whether your leanings on trade are more "free trade" or "fair trade".
But especially if you lean towards freer trade, I think this political conclusion is inescapable. Otherwise the backlash, now growing, will become more widespread and that may lead us in all sorts of counter-productive directions as broader and broader swaths of the US middle class feels abandoned and left to twist in the wind with inadequate protection and support from their own out-of-touch government.
And as you well know, Steve, that sort of scenario is one to be avoided to foster the sort of US foreign policy that you favor (an approach with which I am also broadly sympathetic).
Perhaps Senator Hagel shares this view of the domestic economic and social situation in our country. If so I have not seen this written about. I am concerned enough about whether Obama sees the situation in this way.
For those seriously promoting Hagel as the running mate as you are, in order to be persuasive in a forum such as this I think you would be well advised to say more about Hagel's views on domestic policy, as well as your own.
If you are talking about Hagel for Secretary of Defense or Secretary of State, that is an entirely different matter. I am quite open to, and far more sympathetic to, the case for Hagel for either of these positions. I do think he shows good judgment on many foreign policy issues.
May 23, 2008 11:54 AM | Reply | Permalink
Just joking above -- I think an Obama/Hagel ticket would be unbeatable; I also think they would do the country a lot of good, which is what this is all about anyway, isn't it?
The latter observation is the reason I think Obama should NOT offer the VEEP to Hillary; it would be a dishonest thing to do, and if she accepted, it would not be good for the country. We need leaders in the Executive office; not narcissists who will start running for 2012 on DAY ONE.
May 23, 2008 11:56 AM | Reply | Permalink
National Security is v. importantly to me...
However, he's really not that great when it comes down to his votes:
http://www.votesmart.org/voting_category.php?can_id=231&type=category&category=47&go.x=15&go.y=13
Also, he is anti-choice to the point of [imo] being barbaric. So, if anything happened to Obama, which I hope will never, never happen you would have a acting-President that would be more than happy to take down Roe v. Wade...
just sayin...
May 23, 2008 1:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
CVille,
I never liked McCain because apart from the grand visual presented to us by himself and the media, behind it all he was very conservative. I think the same thing applies to Hagel.
Obama/Hagel may be unbeatable, but it gives Hagel a boost to become our next President. (after Obama) :-)
May 24, 2008 8:01 AM | Reply | Permalink
There's no reason in the world that the Democratic nominee should pick a Republican running mate.
What if something happens to the president? We hand the White House back to the other side.
What if there's a close vote in the Senate? We give the tie-breaking vote to the wrong party.
This is a terrible idea.
May 23, 2008 1:27 PM | Reply | Permalink
Agree. What happens after Obama's 2nd term, we elect R-Hagel?
We need someone who has social and econoninc policies that match his boss....there's more to governing than foreign policy.
May 23, 2008 1:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
Same thing applies if McCain picks Joe Lieberman as his running mate. McCain/Lieberman
May 24, 2008 9:41 PM | Reply | Permalink
And now, from Cloud Cuckoo Land --
If I was in Barack Obama's shoes . . . I'd go for Chuck Hagel. Steve Clemons
May 23, 2008 2:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
It makes sense if you consider that Obama--if nominated--could actually lose the White House. Look at the numbers.
I've been dubious from the start about Obama's appeal to the typical average Joe/Jane white folk. He certainly can turn out the AA vote, but he might need a Hagel to appeal to some independents, Reagan Democrats, and Moderate Republicans.
I think the Obama camp is seriously worried about Obama's vulnerability.
May 26, 2008 12:10 AM | Reply | Permalink
Steve,
While I understand your point, that a Unity ticket has some chance of drawing Rs to vote for the D ticket, Hagel's record doesn't stand up to scrutiny.
In fact, except for Iraq and the Webb bill, he's as anti-progressive as they come, as I detail over at my place.
May 23, 2008 2:41 PM | Reply | Permalink
Where does Lieberman (R-Tel Aviv) get off? He never fought! His kids haven't fought! He's gonna question MY patriotism? He gives more of a damn about ISRAEL than he ever will the citizens of Connecticut!
May 23, 2008 3:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
He doesn't really give a damn about Israel either. He's just adhered to a far right wing foreign policy idealogy.
May 23, 2008 4:01 PM | Reply | Permalink
I am dumbstruck that anyone would consider putting a conservative on the ticket. Totally gobsmacked.
It sure seems to me looking around at what has been happening (and still happening) in the country has been the result of the conservative ideology. And it's BS.
IMO we need to get the country away from thinking like conservatives. IMO we need more progressive thought. Honest to God if I had my way we would just suspend the Republican Party and make them start all over. And the thought of putting one on the ticket with Obama just horrifies me.
May 23, 2008 6:22 PM | Reply | Permalink
Can you imagine suggesting Eisenhower as VP for the Democratic ticket? The man who ran with Dick Nixon as his VP choice two times! I'll grant you that Eisenhower, by today's post Bill Clinton standards is somewhat to the left of much of the Democratic Party. But, come on. Is that what the "progressive wing" of American politics has become? Yes, Eisenhower would be a vast improvement over Bush et al., but so would James Polk. Is this really where we want to go?
May 23, 2008 7:38 PM | Reply | Permalink
Eisenhower was certainly prescient.
And while I don't see Hagel in the VP slot, a cabinet position maybe.
May 23, 2008 7:40 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'm a flaming liberal, yet, I've watched and strangely admired Chuck Hagel over the last few years and to me, he is visibly evolving. I have actually seen him physically wretch while listening to the nonsense being spewed by his party (on CSPAN).
He is clearly a man in conflict, ripe for the picking by the Democratic Party. Yes, he has some conservative tendencies, but "the conservatives" have treated him like dog shit. He's too intelligent and thoughtful not to listen to reason and see the light on issues.
He'd be a strong addition to President-elect Obama's cabinet - and our President-elect has already said he wants a diverse cabinet full of differing opinions.
May 23, 2008 10:01 PM | Reply | Permalink
We now have a historical possibility - a Democratic Congress, with progressive Democrats, not conservative Southern Democrats, and a progressive Democratic president. Now whynhell would we want to give that up by putting a Repub on the ticket?
Steve, I think your DLC background kinda overwhelmed your logic circuits there.
May 23, 2008 11:45 PM | Reply | Permalink
Ummmmm...the only problem is Chuck Hagel, while correct on the Iraq War, is no Eisenhower.
I read those Eisenhower quotes and get a chuckle. The political frame of reference has been moved so far to the right in the country if Eisenhower was saying that stuff today he would be considered to the political left of the DLC...yep he would be considered just another liberal "terrorist coddler".
I respect the position Hagel has taken on the war but that doesn't make him acceptable on any democratic ticket.
May 23, 2008 11:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
Eisenhower, outside his office, (while looking at me) to Bedel Smith;
"Keep those paras out of my liquor cabinet."
SHAEF HQ, Frankfurt, Germany, 1945.
"Only Americans can hurt America."
-- Dwight D. Eisenhower
A prescient Ike, foreseeing Bush?
May 24, 2008 8:02 AM | Reply | Permalink
I am a Clinton supporter* and Hegal is pretty much the only suggested VP pick that would make re-consider my decision to work hard for Obama. This is really not a time to tell the Republicans that we need to share power with them, this is a time to work hard to uncover and punish criminal acts by this administration.
*Well, technically I was a Clinton support, now I support "generic" Democrat. I wish s/he were running.
May 24, 2008 9:44 AM | Reply | Permalink
I like the general idea of an Obama/Hegel ticket. But there's one big thing that worries me: how will it play out with the "independents." Indys aren't that easy to court, you need to play toward the two big groups, right-leaning and left-leaning. Putting Hegel on the ticket may attract the right-leaning folks, or it may backfire with the mixed ticket alienating both the right and left-leaners. Honestly, i dunno.
On the plus side, at my last job we had a lot of contact with Hegels Foreign Affairs aids setting us Congressional Study Groups on Asian affairs, and those guys knew their stuff solid. Hegel would bring sooooo much foreign policy knowledge and wisdom. Looking past the naked politics of capaigns and elections, an Obama/Hegel ticket would do a fine job governing.
May 24, 2008 11:46 AM | Reply | Permalink
Ike was an American hating leftist who wanted to hold up the white flag of surrender to those who want to kill us.
May 24, 2008 2:50 PM | Reply | Permalink
After her RFK comments, I offered HRC the weekend off. After reading this post, I offer the author the weekend off. Have a beer. Get some barbecue. Stop suggesting that the best way to get a Democrat elected is to pick a running mate who is clearly a DINO or one whose only winning quality is that he has the common sense to know that Bush has completely mismanaged U.S. foreign policy. Don't we have any REAL DEMOCRATS who know that Bush has completely mismanaged U.S. foreign policy? They shouldn't be too hard to find...
May 24, 2008 2:57 PM | Reply | Permalink
I have a lot of respect for Chuck Hagel. I think he is a decent patriotic american and he is absolutely right about Iraq.
To lay my cards on the table I'm right of center but am dead set against the war. I guess im a small 'l' libertarian. John Kerry was the first time I ever voted for a Democrat for president though I supported Howard Dean in the primary despite his transparent nuttiness. The war on iraq and civil liberties are the paramount issues for me.
Early in the primary season I was a Ron Paul supporter, volunteer, and donor. I knew he had zero chance, I just wanted to hear someone right of center to be able to articulate the insanity of what is going on.
From December on I have been supporting, volunteering, and donating to Barack Obama. The war is the main reason but there is also the hope that he would be able to help to transform much of our politics. I'm skeptical that he can suceed in the transformation but a break from the past is essential IMO.
If Hagel was running as a republican, I would support him. However he is ill suited to be a democratic vice president. His voting record is considerable to the right of McCain and is really ill suited and irreconcilable to much of what the democratic party stands for.
Now if Obama becomes president, Hagel could be a good choice for secretary of defense. But if something happened to Obama, would democrats want a President Hagel to appoint justices to the supreme court?
May 24, 2008 3:05 PM | Reply | Permalink
Obama-Hagel ???
are you forking crazy ???
I got two words for ya
Lincoln/Johnson
you could look it up
maybe you don't understand how this vice presidency thing works ...
May 24, 2008 4:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
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May 24, 2008 4:50 PM | Reply | Permalink
No one ever gives Millard Fillmore any credit.
May 25, 2008 12:44 PM | Reply | Permalink
Before we worship at the altar of St Ike, we should remember a few things:
1. He wasn't above pulling his punches, or not punching at all, when McCarthy was claiming that George Marshall was some kind of crypto-Commie Mao/Stalinist dupe.
2. Richard Nixon - maybe he would have eventually made it to the White House anyway, but Eisenhower made it immeasurably easier
3. He was unenthusiastic, to put it mildly, when it came to enforcing Supreme Court rulings involving Civil Rights. The Civil Rights Acts passed during his administration probably owe more to LBJ than to him.
4. For all his talk about the Military-Industrial copmlex, he used National Security as the grounds for building interstate highway system.
On the plus side, he did tell Britain, France and Israel to go fuck themselves during the Suez crisis.
May 24, 2008 11:58 PM | Reply | Permalink
I agree with the comments above that we cannot win an election only to put a Republican a "heartbeat away from the presidency". What Obama can try to do it to take a page from parliamentary democracy by announcing a partial Shadow Cabinet. If he could get Hagel to sign on as Secretary of Defense, great. Name Richardson Secretary of State, John Edwards Attorney General, and Mike Bloomberg Secretary of Treasury. Each of these appointments would emphasize the massive failure of Republican policies over the past eight years. Collectively they would challenge McCain to respond in kind and preempt criticisms that Obama's inexperience would mke him unprepared to take over on Jan 20.
May 25, 2008 1:20 AM | Reply | Permalink
A couple of reasons why Obama may not choose Hagel as Veep - one that people often don't comment on - aside from foreign policy, Obama and Hagel don't agree on ANYTHING!
Obama is pro-choice, Hagel is NOT
Obama is for reforming NAFTA, Hagel is NOT
Obama is for a robust regulatory overhaul, Hagel WHO KNOWS!
The point I'm trying to make is that war and veterans issues aside, Obama and Hagel really have very little in common.
That doesn't mean that Hagel shouldn't be a part of an Obama cabinet, preferably Sec. of Defense, but just not Veep.
I actually would like to see Obama float an "ideal" cabinet before the convention. Not the individuals per se, since the 24/7 environment we live in would destroy any cabinet before it had any chance of succeeding, but rather the characteristics of the cabinet sought - with enough specificity to give a sense of what an Obama government would look like.
May 25, 2008 3:51 AM | Reply | Permalink
Hagel is an admirable guy in many ways, but aside from his sensible caution when it comes to military adventures, he's a very conservative Republican, who I wouldn't want to exercise the powers of the presidency, especially nominating Supreme Court justices.
Why not a real Eisenhower, victorious SACEUR Wes Clark, who led a fractious 19-nation coalition to a quick victory in the Balkans, which stopped a genocide and resulted in a successful peacekeeping operation.
Clark shares virtually all of Obama domestic policy positions as well as his views about Iran, Iraq, and Afghanistan. As an internationally renowned diplomat, Clark knows the score and could commandingly defend Obama from attempts to paint him as weak on defense.
Like Ike, Clark knows the military-industrial complex inside-out in ways no one who hasn't dealt with it as an executive officer can. Read SECRET EMPIRE about how Ike's presidency was primarily focused on preventing the MIC from running amok, as it has during the Bush years. Clark as veep, or if necessary as president, would be able to keep it from getting us into more tragic misadventures and bankrupting the country.
The GOP and bin Laden will pull out all the stops to keep the status quo. Clark would be invaluable during whatever October surprises they'll spring.
May 25, 2008 8:39 AM | Reply | Permalink
I recommended this post because a) I like Hagel for his stance against Iraq, b) I would love to see him appointed to Obama's cabinet, c) I think the idea of a cross-party ticket is a very interesting one, and d) I think everyone here commented very well.
May 25, 2008 4:13 PM | Reply | Permalink
I repeat: If Democrats can speak comfortably about nominating a
Dwight David Eisenhower as their VP candidate, the Party has moved so far to the right that we might as well forget about calling it progressive. Our choice would seem to be between extreme right wing verging on fascism and merely right wing. Ouch! Keep in mind, these are self-proclaimed progressives thinking this way. A sad commentary indeed on the state of Democrats and American "Democracy." I don't think we'll find the Republicans nominating Adlai Stevenson any time soon. This shows the direction of drift in America's two major parties.
May 25, 2008 5:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yes, well you've done a good job of cherry-picking.
Eisenhower selected John Foster Dulles as Secretary of State (War? I forget). Eisenhower refused to accept the triumph of the Viet Minh, forced the division of Viet Nam, and started us down the road to that war. It was under Eisenhower that Mohammed Mossadegh, Jacobo Arbenz, and probably others were overthrown. And so on.
In sum, while Eisenhower hated war he was certainly prepared to wage it.
May 25, 2008 7:50 PM | Reply | Permalink
Just recording disappointment that Steve has not responded to the many commenters in the thread asking him to say more about why he thinks progressive Democrats should be interested in Hagel for VP. I hadn't thought all of these questions were entirely rhetorical. Mine was not.
May 28, 2008 1:30 PM | Reply | Permalink
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